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	<title>Comments on: Basketball: Arizona State scouting report</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/</link>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17204</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 21:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I want to throw in compliment to the classy manner that debate is going on here.  Very unlike the football comments, where alot of name calling and attacks go on if you dare to criticize Tedford or have a negative or pessimistic outlook for the FB program.  

Wisdom Cow - Great to read your comments and see your class overhere. I&#039;m used to seeing you over at Wilner&#039;s blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to throw in compliment to the classy manner that debate is going on here.  Very unlike the football comments, where alot of name calling and attacks go on if you dare to criticize Tedford or have a negative or pessimistic outlook for the FB program.  </p>
<p>Wisdom Cow &#8211; Great to read your comments and see your class overhere. I&#8217;m used to seeing you over at Wilner&#8217;s blog.</p>
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		<title>By: The Wisdom Cow</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17197</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wisdom Cow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17197</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see Max and MSF much differently than you, LR.  Unless you define &quot;athletic big man&quot; as Powe, I think you are selling them short.  To be clear, I define Powe as &quot;dominant&quot;, a few notches above &quot;athletic&quot;.

Max is pretty quick on the boards.  Yes, lateral quickness is below average, but his hieght makes up for it (opponents still have to alter their shots much moreso than against the average defender, including Boykin).  I admit I am assuming he continues to improve, though not the same jump he made from last year to this.  His strength should increase and his understanding of positioning should improve with playing time (I am hopeful he goes to the big man camp, I think they still hold it, correct?).

MSF doesn&#039;t seem overweight, IMO.  He may be pushing it some, but I&#039;d call him heavy, not overwieght.  I think he got hit hard by the flu which really put him in a whole.  I am not at all suprised a guy of his size trying to come back from significant illness/layoff developed back problems.  It would be easy to do if he pushed his rehab from illness too hard.  He is very strong, I love how he gets separation on offense for his shot, and I see his defense improving in terms of positioning.  It is hard for me to put a near 2 week bout with the flu to the side and blame poor conditioning.  I could certainly be wrong.

We will still be thin up front depth-wise which baffles me given Monty&#039;s record with big men (I would think they would be lining up to play for him).  Yet, I don&#039;t think the cubbard is bare.  Amoke is very fluid and still young, gaining great experience this season.

Don&#039;t get me wrong.  This is the year to win the Pac 10, not next, but I am not giving up on a tourney bid next season already.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see Max and MSF much differently than you, LR.  Unless you define &#8220;athletic big man&#8221; as Powe, I think you are selling them short.  To be clear, I define Powe as &#8220;dominant&#8221;, a few notches above &#8220;athletic&#8221;.</p>
<p>Max is pretty quick on the boards.  Yes, lateral quickness is below average, but his hieght makes up for it (opponents still have to alter their shots much moreso than against the average defender, including Boykin).  I admit I am assuming he continues to improve, though not the same jump he made from last year to this.  His strength should increase and his understanding of positioning should improve with playing time (I am hopeful he goes to the big man camp, I think they still hold it, correct?).</p>
<p>MSF doesn&#8217;t seem overweight, IMO.  He may be pushing it some, but I&#8217;d call him heavy, not overwieght.  I think he got hit hard by the flu which really put him in a whole.  I am not at all suprised a guy of his size trying to come back from significant illness/layoff developed back problems.  It would be easy to do if he pushed his rehab from illness too hard.  He is very strong, I love how he gets separation on offense for his shot, and I see his defense improving in terms of positioning.  It is hard for me to put a near 2 week bout with the flu to the side and blame poor conditioning.  I could certainly be wrong.</p>
<p>We will still be thin up front depth-wise which baffles me given Monty&#8217;s record with big men (I would think they would be lining up to play for him).  Yet, I don&#8217;t think the cubbard is bare.  Amoke is very fluid and still young, gaining great experience this season.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong.  This is the year to win the Pac 10, not next, but I am not giving up on a tourney bid next season already.</p>
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		<title>By: LR</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17195</link>
		<dc:creator>LR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:41:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17195</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Max and MSF are the very definition of &quot;un-athletic&quot;.  Max is anything but quick.  His movements are very deliberate, and his coordination is poor to say the least.  Lateral movement is a particular concern.  He&#039;s obviously put on some weight and added lower body strength, but he needs to improve his upper body.  A man that tall shouldn&#039;t have boards pulled away from him with such ease.  

MSF is slow in part due to poor conditioning.  He&#039;s obviously overweight and needs to lose some pounds so he can get quicker and imporve his jumping ability.  His judgment and the way he uses his hands are other issues but beyond the scope of this thread.  

We have no other options unless Solomon is a revelation (and I hope he is but am realistic in light of his need to develop physically) and Kamp&#039;s pituitary gland can be manipulated to get him up to 6&#039;9&quot;....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max and MSF are the very definition of &#8220;un-athletic&#8221;.  Max is anything but quick.  His movements are very deliberate, and his coordination is poor to say the least.  Lateral movement is a particular concern.  He&#8217;s obviously put on some weight and added lower body strength, but he needs to improve his upper body.  A man that tall shouldn&#8217;t have boards pulled away from him with such ease.  </p>
<p>MSF is slow in part due to poor conditioning.  He&#8217;s obviously overweight and needs to lose some pounds so he can get quicker and imporve his jumping ability.  His judgment and the way he uses his hands are other issues but beyond the scope of this thread.  </p>
<p>We have no other options unless Solomon is a revelation (and I hope he is but am realistic in light of his need to develop physically) and Kamp&#8217;s pituitary gland can be manipulated to get him up to 6&#8217;9&#8243;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: The Wisdom Cow</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17194</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wisdom Cow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17194</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Kore, meant &quot;kill&quot; not &quot;hurt&quot;.  You are correct.  I should have added that my position was due to the relative play of the rest of the league.

LR, MSF and Max will be back next year.  Not sure what your definition of &quot;athletic big man&quot; is, but one of them should qualify.  MSF is strong and Max is quick with hieght.  The loss of Boykin is huge, but not insurmountable.  It is the guard play depth relying on freshman that will hold us back the most, but I wouldn&#039;t predict a poor season already.  It isn&#039;t like the rest of the Pac 10 is going to become great in one year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Kore, meant &#8220;kill&#8221; not &#8220;hurt&#8221;.  You are correct.  I should have added that my position was due to the relative play of the rest of the league.</p>
<p>LR, MSF and Max will be back next year.  Not sure what your definition of &#8220;athletic big man&#8221; is, but one of them should qualify.  MSF is strong and Max is quick with hieght.  The loss of Boykin is huge, but not insurmountable.  It is the guard play depth relying on freshman that will hold us back the most, but I wouldn&#8217;t predict a poor season already.  It isn&#8217;t like the rest of the Pac 10 is going to become great in one year.</p>
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		<title>By: LR</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17193</link>
		<dc:creator>LR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 19:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17193</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We won&#039;t have an athletic big man next year, nor will we have a back court to speak of.  Hanginng your hopes on a back court combination of Seeley, Jorge and Smith (plus freshmen who are an unqualified mystery) is scary -- one defender and ZERO who can &quot;score the ball&quot; as all the BB insiders like to say these days.  As for Kamp, we can only hope he comes back 80% from his chronic injuries.  3s and 4s = Amoke and Kamp unless you&#039;re running a gimmick/small line-up with those two platooning in the middle.  It would be nice to have a bit more range from those two;  Kamp has a fairly reliable jumper, but Amoke has nothing unless he can create around the rim.  If I had to guess, I&#039;d have to say 12 to 13 wins is very optimistic.  Unfortunately, I don&#039;t think Monty and Jay John have the allure or the desire to recruit the elite, immediate-impact type guys who are needed to dig us out quickly.  They&#039;re plodders.  Guys who can turn Andrew Vlahov and Andy Poppinck types into serviceable Pac10 players, but they lack the polish to pull the big time guys.  I admit Braun left them a huge image hole to dig out of, but I think part of it is on them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We won&#8217;t have an athletic big man next year, nor will we have a back court to speak of.  Hanginng your hopes on a back court combination of Seeley, Jorge and Smith (plus freshmen who are an unqualified mystery) is scary &#8212; one defender and ZERO who can &#8220;score the ball&#8221; as all the BB insiders like to say these days.  As for Kamp, we can only hope he comes back 80% from his chronic injuries.  3s and 4s = Amoke and Kamp unless you&#8217;re running a gimmick/small line-up with those two platooning in the middle.  It would be nice to have a bit more range from those two;  Kamp has a fairly reliable jumper, but Amoke has nothing unless he can create around the rim.  If I had to guess, I&#8217;d have to say 12 to 13 wins is very optimistic.  Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t think Monty and Jay John have the allure or the desire to recruit the elite, immediate-impact type guys who are needed to dig us out quickly.  They&#8217;re plodders.  Guys who can turn Andrew Vlahov and Andy Poppinck types into serviceable Pac10 players, but they lack the polish to pull the big time guys.  I admit Braun left them a huge image hole to dig out of, but I think part of it is on them.</p>
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		<title>By: KoreAmBear</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17192</link>
		<dc:creator>KoreAmBear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 18:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;but even losing two would not hurt our chances at claiming the Pac 10 regular season title&quot;

How do you figure?  You mean losing two would not bury us in our title hunt but it would definitely hurt it.  Esp. since we have two more road games right next week too.  Because we have had 5 home games and 2 road games, we&#039;ve essentially held serve.  We really need to go 3-1 these next four.  I would be disappointed but not too upset with 2-2.  1-3 or worse -- well, we&#039;re looking at either squeaking out a PX title somehow by going on a run or having to win the PXT.  We&#039;ve got to show up big time these next 4.  No more excuses (injuries, flu, etc.) -- let&#039;s just do it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but even losing two would not hurt our chances at claiming the Pac 10 regular season title&#8221;</p>
<p>How do you figure?  You mean losing two would not bury us in our title hunt but it would definitely hurt it.  Esp. since we have two more road games right next week too.  Because we have had 5 home games and 2 road games, we&#8217;ve essentially held serve.  We really need to go 3-1 these next four.  I would be disappointed but not too upset with 2-2.  1-3 or worse &#8212; well, we&#8217;re looking at either squeaking out a PX title somehow by going on a run or having to win the PXT.  We&#8217;ve got to show up big time these next 4.  No more excuses (injuries, flu, etc.) &#8212; let&#8217;s just do it.</p>
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		<title>By: The Wisdom Cow</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17180</link>
		<dc:creator>The Wisdom Cow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In two years we MAY be better.  Losing 4 senior starters rarely results in improvement, though it is possible if Franklin has a Kidd-like impact.

Just like the game @ UW, this would be a huge win, but losing is not the end of the world.  A split in the state is important, but even losing two would not hurt our chances at claiming the Pac 10 regular season title.  I really want a win tonight, though, just because we really lack that nice road win.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In two years we MAY be better.  Losing 4 senior starters rarely results in improvement, though it is possible if Franklin has a Kidd-like impact.</p>
<p>Just like the game @ UW, this would be a huge win, but losing is not the end of the world.  A split in the state is important, but even losing two would not hurt our chances at claiming the Pac 10 regular season title.  I really want a win tonight, though, just because we really lack that nice road win.</p>
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		<title>By: rollonubears</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17173</link>
		<dc:creator>rollonubears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i think we&#039;re going to be a lot better next season, especially if we get a big man. max will be better. kamp will be back. jorge is a leader, anyway, amoke and seeley will be solid. msf may get better. and we have 4 4-star recruits coming in as well. the rest of the pac will be better next year, too, but i think we&#039;ll be a pretty exciting team to watch. an almost 100% monty-made team.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think we&#8217;re going to be a lot better next season, especially if we get a big man. max will be better. kamp will be back. jorge is a leader, anyway, amoke and seeley will be solid. msf may get better. and we have 4 4-star recruits coming in as well. the rest of the pac will be better next year, too, but i think we&#8217;ll be a pretty exciting team to watch. an almost 100% monty-made team.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveNTexas</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2010/01/28/basketball-arizona-state-scouting-report-3/comment-page-1/#comment-17170</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveNTexas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 13:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=10521#comment-17170</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This is a key game for us. Are we really the best in the sorry Pac 10 this year or are there a bunch of mediocre teams in the hunt for the one NCAA bid?  We lost our ranking early in the season and although a win tonight will not return it,  it will help towards the post-season.

If we win we deserve kudos for beating one of our tougher Pac 10 opponents on their home floor, if we lose we are just another mediocre Pac 10 team who will be worse next season.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a key game for us. Are we really the best in the sorry Pac 10 this year or are there a bunch of mediocre teams in the hunt for the one NCAA bid?  We lost our ranking early in the season and although a win tonight will not return it,  it will help towards the post-season.</p>
<p>If we win we deserve kudos for beating one of our tougher Pac 10 opponents on their home floor, if we lose we are just another mediocre Pac 10 team who will be worse next season.</p>
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