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	<title>Comments on: Basketball: Behrens thinking big</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/</link>
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		<title>By: jeh</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36831</link>
		<dc:creator>jeh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36831</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would say it makes more sense to evaluate a recruiting class after its 4 years of college.  How about it, SteveNTexas?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would say it makes more sense to evaluate a recruiting class after its 4 years of college.  How about it, SteveNTexas?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36815</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Mar 2011 01:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why does Cal need to &quot;catch&quot; Arizona when all indications are that Cal has significantly more returning talent (assuming Williams doesn&#039;t make the insane decision to return) than Arizona does?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why does Cal need to &#8220;catch&#8221; Arizona when all indications are that Cal has significantly more returning talent (assuming Williams doesn&#8217;t make the insane decision to return) than Arizona does?</p>
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		<title>By: SteveNTexas</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36785</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveNTexas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 21:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Stanford came up with this recruiting class we would be mocking them but because this is our class we have to make every possible rationalization  we can. &quot;Trust Monty&quot; - &quot;Last year we had a good class&quot;  &quot;we don&#039;t want one and done&quot; Hmm Kidd was two and done maybe you would like to erase him from our history.

Sure we don&#039;t have to have the best PAC 10 recruiting class every year but this class is by far the WORST - last place - the bottom. 

No one will say we just screwed up and top players from our own area were grabbed away. You guys are in denial - let&#039;s see how we catch  Arizona next year  as they have a fine class.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Stanford came up with this recruiting class we would be mocking them but because this is our class we have to make every possible rationalization  we can. &#8220;Trust Monty&#8221; &#8211; &#8220;Last year we had a good class&#8221;  &#8220;we don&#8217;t want one and done&#8221; Hmm Kidd was two and done maybe you would like to erase him from our history.</p>
<p>Sure we don&#8217;t have to have the best PAC 10 recruiting class every year but this class is by far the WORST &#8211; last place &#8211; the bottom. </p>
<p>No one will say we just screwed up and top players from our own area were grabbed away. You guys are in denial &#8211; let&#8217;s see how we catch  Arizona next year  as they have a fine class.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36736</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 06:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36736</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You know what else Kentucky and Duke have? Titles in the last fifty years. Enormous fanbases. Athletic departments focused pretty much 100% on basketball. What a dumbass comparison.

Now, let&#039;s look at a program that is actually a NON-ridiculous comparison to Cal: Wisconsin. (Best not to even mention a program like Butler, which has been forced to make do with such 2-star mediocrities as Gordon Heyward, Shelvin Mack and A.J. Graves.) Also an academic school, in an area not flush with basketball talent, and with relatively little history of success prior to the last 15 years. Scout.com has commit rankings going back to 2002. In that time, Wisconsin has had:

1 5*
14 4*
17 3*
4 2*

So, a mixture of 3 and 4 star guys, but leaning slightly to the low end (akin to, albeit a bit better than, Cal under Montgomery, which has recruited 3 4*, 5 3*, 3 2* and one junior college transfer).

In the last eight-plus seasons, i.e. the time period when the team had these guys playing for it, the team is 108-42 in Big Ten play, has won the conference regular season and tourney titles twice each, has never failed to make the NCAA tournament, has finished top 50 in the Pomeroy rankings every season, has finished (or is currently) in the top 16 of said rankings seven times, has reached the Elite Eight, and has reached the Sweet Sixteen three times. (Oh, and a Final Four a few years before that.)

So the notion that you have to have a roster full of All-Americans to be a great program is false. What a lot of people, not to mention a lot of recruiting services, fail to grasp is that if you get two good seasons out of a player, the fact that they happen to be his junior and senior seasons (and that he won&#039;t play much if at all in the NBA) instead of his freshman and sophomore seasons (followed by early entry to the draft) doesn&#039;t matter much. The ideal is a guy who will stay four years and be good all four, but those are hard to come by in this day and age (not to mention, it looks like Cal may already have one in Crabbe).

The question then becomes whether a coach can develop players; the answer, in Montgomery&#039;s case, is clearly &quot;yes&quot;. So getting projects is not a program-crippling thing. Now, I&#039;m not saying that these projects will work out-- odds are one of Kravish and Behrens will end up being pretty bad, and Parker is a guy whose role is to provide immediate depth and toughness, not elite scoring-- but, like, doesn&#039;t Monty deserve some deference at this point? The team needed to sign players. There aren&#039;t a lot of great ones left right now. So your choices are pretty much depth guys and projects-- and in the last week, Cal&#039;s signed one of each. There&#039;s still an open scholarship to go along with two graduating players next year, so it&#039;s not like they&#039;re blocking talented players from entering the program.

I don&#039;t want to sound completely dismissive of recruit rankings, because clearly they have some predictive value for how a team will perform. But the Chicken Little crap is pretty stupid, frankly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what else Kentucky and Duke have? Titles in the last fifty years. Enormous fanbases. Athletic departments focused pretty much 100% on basketball. What a dumbass comparison.</p>
<p>Now, let&#8217;s look at a program that is actually a NON-ridiculous comparison to Cal: Wisconsin. (Best not to even mention a program like Butler, which has been forced to make do with such 2-star mediocrities as Gordon Heyward, Shelvin Mack and A.J. Graves.) Also an academic school, in an area not flush with basketball talent, and with relatively little history of success prior to the last 15 years. Scout.com has commit rankings going back to 2002. In that time, Wisconsin has had:</p>
<p>1 5*<br />
14 4*<br />
17 3*<br />
4 2*</p>
<p>So, a mixture of 3 and 4 star guys, but leaning slightly to the low end (akin to, albeit a bit better than, Cal under Montgomery, which has recruited 3 4*, 5 3*, 3 2* and one junior college transfer).</p>
<p>In the last eight-plus seasons, i.e. the time period when the team had these guys playing for it, the team is 108-42 in Big Ten play, has won the conference regular season and tourney titles twice each, has never failed to make the NCAA tournament, has finished top 50 in the Pomeroy rankings every season, has finished (or is currently) in the top 16 of said rankings seven times, has reached the Elite Eight, and has reached the Sweet Sixteen three times. (Oh, and a Final Four a few years before that.)</p>
<p>So the notion that you have to have a roster full of All-Americans to be a great program is false. What a lot of people, not to mention a lot of recruiting services, fail to grasp is that if you get two good seasons out of a player, the fact that they happen to be his junior and senior seasons (and that he won&#8217;t play much if at all in the NBA) instead of his freshman and sophomore seasons (followed by early entry to the draft) doesn&#8217;t matter much. The ideal is a guy who will stay four years and be good all four, but those are hard to come by in this day and age (not to mention, it looks like Cal may already have one in Crabbe).</p>
<p>The question then becomes whether a coach can develop players; the answer, in Montgomery&#8217;s case, is clearly &#8220;yes&#8221;. So getting projects is not a program-crippling thing. Now, I&#8217;m not saying that these projects will work out&#8211; odds are one of Kravish and Behrens will end up being pretty bad, and Parker is a guy whose role is to provide immediate depth and toughness, not elite scoring&#8211; but, like, doesn&#8217;t Monty deserve some deference at this point? The team needed to sign players. There aren&#8217;t a lot of great ones left right now. So your choices are pretty much depth guys and projects&#8211; and in the last week, Cal&#8217;s signed one of each. There&#8217;s still an open scholarship to go along with two graduating players next year, so it&#8217;s not like they&#8217;re blocking talented players from entering the program.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to sound completely dismissive of recruit rankings, because clearly they have some predictive value for how a team will perform. But the Chicken Little crap is pretty stupid, frankly.</p>
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		<title>By: Raf</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36731</link>
		<dc:creator>Raf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 05:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36731</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it&#039;s funny how myopic and hysterical fans can be sometimes... cal just signed a top recruiting classes last year... this year not so great.  it even&#039;s out, relax. the bears will be fine... and competitive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it&#8217;s funny how myopic and hysterical fans can be sometimes&#8230; cal just signed a top recruiting classes last year&#8230; this year not so great.  it even&#8217;s out, relax. the bears will be fine&#8230; and competitive.</p>
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		<title>By: Tdogg</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36727</link>
		<dc:creator>Tdogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 04:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36727</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve, you comparison of recruit rankings to death row inmates is ridiculous.  WTH are you talking about?  Rankings are totally subjective.  I&#039;m sure Jorge would earn more stars than he got when he was in high school.  So the fact that we are ranked last.  Who cares?  It&#039;s totally skewed anyway because Behrens would have been ranked much higher before his injury.  Cal is not Duke or Kentucky or stinking Texas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, you comparison of recruit rankings to death row inmates is ridiculous.  WTH are you talking about?  Rankings are totally subjective.  I&#8217;m sure Jorge would earn more stars than he got when he was in high school.  So the fact that we are ranked last.  Who cares?  It&#8217;s totally skewed anyway because Behrens would have been ranked much higher before his injury.  Cal is not Duke or Kentucky or stinking Texas.</p>
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		<title>By: milo</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36724</link>
		<dc:creator>milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 03:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36724</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Texas...Cal isn&#039;t Kentucky or Duke. Cal won&#039;t take one-and-dones.  If anything Cal is going to be like Stanfurd under Monty...a very good team that gets into the tourney and will make a run at serious rankings and the top 10 every 4 or so years. I think Cal has the core of a very good team and can win the Pac in the next few years...if things fall into place. Hell, Cal won the Pac10 last year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Texas&#8230;Cal isn&#8217;t Kentucky or Duke. Cal won&#8217;t take one-and-dones.  If anything Cal is going to be like Stanfurd under Monty&#8230;a very good team that gets into the tourney and will make a run at serious rankings and the top 10 every 4 or so years. I think Cal has the core of a very good team and can win the Pac in the next few years&#8230;if things fall into place. Hell, Cal won the Pac10 last year.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveNTexas</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36720</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveNTexas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 03:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36720</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One can always find a high ranked recruit who did poorly or a low ranked one who did well. There are some people on death row who may be innocent but we shouldnt release all of them.

In general the teams with the best talent win. kentucky Duke   etc usually have top recruiting classes. Central Florida and Tulane probably never get a top 20 recruit and never stay ranked either.  Recruiting services get better with time. Its ok to rationalize one recruit that isn&#039;t ranked and we don&#039;t have to be rated first in the Pac 10 but none are ranked and we are rated LAST.  Don&#039;t spin it - this isn&#039;t politics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can always find a high ranked recruit who did poorly or a low ranked one who did well. There are some people on death row who may be innocent but we shouldnt release all of them.</p>
<p>In general the teams with the best talent win. kentucky Duke   etc usually have top recruiting classes. Central Florida and Tulane probably never get a top 20 recruit and never stay ranked either.  Recruiting services get better with time. Its ok to rationalize one recruit that isn&#8217;t ranked and we don&#8217;t have to be rated first in the Pac 10 but none are ranked and we are rated LAST.  Don&#8217;t spin it &#8211; this isn&#8217;t politics.</p>
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		<title>By: jeh</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36700</link>
		<dc:creator>jeh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 00:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Monty is a great coach, and on top of that, is right now and into the foreseeable future on the top of his game.

Whether he is a better assessor of talent/potential than almost all his fellow coaches or simply a genius at getting the most of his players, consider:

First recruit is Jorge, presumably not of interest to any other major college basketball school.  Last year, off the bench, for crying out loud!, he makes the all Pac 10 defensive team; this year, as just a junior, he will repeat on that team and also place on the overall all Pac 10 team, and has to be at least in the conversation for the Pac 10 POY 

Next 3 recruits:  MSF, Bak, and Smith.  Playing injured all Pac 10 season, MSF has been a major force, may get honorable mention for the all Pac 10 team.  Smith, presumably unworthy of a Div I scholarship, is the clear leader in the conference for assists to turnover ratio.  I grant that Bak does not yet earn Monty any kudos for his recruiting/coaching.

This year: Crabbe, clearly best frosh in the conference and arguably in the running for the all Pac 10 squad.  Moreover, it is obvious that his best basketball is in front of him.  What I thought early looks now almost a certainty:  With good health, he will prove to be the best wing ever to play at Cal and will make a mark in the NBA.  Solomon--still pretty raw, but it would be no super surprise to see him develop into an all Pac 10 performer, at both ends of the court.  The other recruits--Rossi (injured) and Murray--at this point, it is too early to evaluate.  Franklin, of course, left the program.

In sum, Monty in 3 years, with the first two of them really unbalanced, thanks to Braun, has delivered an all Pac 10 player in Jorge, the best first year player in Crabbe, the point guard, Smith, with the best assist to turnover ratio in the league this year, and in Solomon an inside player of extraordinary potential, who has already helped this team in his first year.  And in MSF, he has brought in an unheralded jc transfer who has proved to be an excellent, if not all star, player.

So, 5 extremely impressive recruits and in Bak and Murray two not so impressive recruits, but on whom the jury clearly is still out.  Another, Rossi who cannot fairly be evaluated; ditto for Cobbs.  Franklin?  No comment.

So, where&#039;s the problem with Monty&#039;s recruiting?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monty is a great coach, and on top of that, is right now and into the foreseeable future on the top of his game.</p>
<p>Whether he is a better assessor of talent/potential than almost all his fellow coaches or simply a genius at getting the most of his players, consider:</p>
<p>First recruit is Jorge, presumably not of interest to any other major college basketball school.  Last year, off the bench, for crying out loud!, he makes the all Pac 10 defensive team; this year, as just a junior, he will repeat on that team and also place on the overall all Pac 10 team, and has to be at least in the conversation for the Pac 10 POY </p>
<p>Next 3 recruits:  MSF, Bak, and Smith.  Playing injured all Pac 10 season, MSF has been a major force, may get honorable mention for the all Pac 10 team.  Smith, presumably unworthy of a Div I scholarship, is the clear leader in the conference for assists to turnover ratio.  I grant that Bak does not yet earn Monty any kudos for his recruiting/coaching.</p>
<p>This year: Crabbe, clearly best frosh in the conference and arguably in the running for the all Pac 10 squad.  Moreover, it is obvious that his best basketball is in front of him.  What I thought early looks now almost a certainty:  With good health, he will prove to be the best wing ever to play at Cal and will make a mark in the NBA.  Solomon&#8211;still pretty raw, but it would be no super surprise to see him develop into an all Pac 10 performer, at both ends of the court.  The other recruits&#8211;Rossi (injured) and Murray&#8211;at this point, it is too early to evaluate.  Franklin, of course, left the program.</p>
<p>In sum, Monty in 3 years, with the first two of them really unbalanced, thanks to Braun, has delivered an all Pac 10 player in Jorge, the best first year player in Crabbe, the point guard, Smith, with the best assist to turnover ratio in the league this year, and in Solomon an inside player of extraordinary potential, who has already helped this team in his first year.  And in MSF, he has brought in an unheralded jc transfer who has proved to be an excellent, if not all star, player.</p>
<p>So, 5 extremely impressive recruits and in Bak and Murray two not so impressive recruits, but on whom the jury clearly is still out.  Another, Rossi who cannot fairly be evaluated; ditto for Cobbs.  Franklin?  No comment.</p>
<p>So, where&#8217;s the problem with Monty&#8217;s recruiting?</p>
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		<title>By: milo</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/2011/02/28/basketball-behrens-thinking-big/comment-page-1/#comment-36699</link>
		<dc:creator>milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Mar 2011 00:00:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/beartalk/?p=20058#comment-36699</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How many scholarship slots were open?  

I agree, Monty isn&#039;t going to recruit one-and-dones, that&#039;s not his way and I believe that&#039;s partly why he was hired. Tedford operates along the way lines...give the kids an education, make they do their school work and run a clean program.  

A low post pounder would be nice but there&#039;s ways around that...like throwing bodies and fouls in there on rotation. Also if this kid Berhans grows, he could become a true PF. 

With Jorge, Crabbe, Kamp and Solomon as the core and the others, I think Cal can be competitive and make a run at the conference title...if things fall right.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How many scholarship slots were open?  </p>
<p>I agree, Monty isn&#8217;t going to recruit one-and-dones, that&#8217;s not his way and I believe that&#8217;s partly why he was hired. Tedford operates along the way lines&#8230;give the kids an education, make they do their school work and run a clean program.  </p>
<p>A low post pounder would be nice but there&#8217;s ways around that&#8230;like throwing bodies and fouls in there on rotation. Also if this kid Berhans grows, he could become a true PF. </p>
<p>With Jorge, Crabbe, Kamp and Solomon as the core and the others, I think Cal can be competitive and make a run at the conference title&#8230;if things fall right.</p>
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