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Football: APR report
By Jonathan Okanes
Tuesday, May 24th, 2011 at 2:43 pm in Football, off-season stuff.
Cal had its second-worst showing in the APR that was released today by the NCAA. The Bears’ multi-year APR came in at 949. Only the 945 the program registered in 2004-05 — the first year of the APR — has been worse for the Bears.
Also, Cal’s APR this year put it just in the 50th-60th percentile among football programs across the country. That is the Bears’ worst performance in terms of percentile. The 945 in 2004-05 was good for the 60th-70th percentile.
Cal’s score this year puts the program sixth in the Pac-10, in the last year of the conference. Stanford is first at 977, followed by Oregon State (959), UCLA (956), USC (952), Arizona (951), Cal, Washington (946), Oregon (941), Arizona State (940) and Washington State (925).
The APR is calculated based on eligibility and the retention of players. The APR is based on an average over the previous four years, with this year’s report ending with the 2009-10 academic year. The Bears may have been hurt by early defections in recent years by players such as Marshawn Lynch, DeSean Jackson, Cameron Morrah and Jahvid Best. But obviously there are schools all around the conference and country that have players leave early for the pros.
For Cal’s complete report, including all of its sports, click here.
To search complete APR data, click here.
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May 24th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
Time to give Tedford another contract extension.
May 24th, 2011 at 7:33 pm
All things considered: clean program, excellent APR, generally winning program, I’m happy.
May 24th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Get ready for the spinsters. Maybe more football guys need to be enrolled in the Social Welfare, Sociology, Ethnic Studies, American Studies, Art programs.
May 24th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
If I am reading the data correctly, the football APR score over the last 4 years (949) is identical to the average for D-I schools (949), which I assume is why we are in the 50th-60th percentile. Putting aside the substantial decline in 2009-2010 (down to 921? Is there an explanation?), this doesn’t suggest that Cal is maintaining significantly higher academic standards than the average D-I football playing school. One argument favored by folks who believe Tedford has been a great coach over the last few years has been the purported strong academics. This data is consistent something I pointed out earlier in the year with respect Cal’s mediocre (at best) performance for the Pac-10 football All-Aacademic team (and for which the Tedford supporters were quite critical of me).
Reactions from the hardcore Tedford supporters?
May 24th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
I’d rather have a clean program that scores average than a sleazy/dirty program that does average to crappy (UO, $C). Football’s graduation rate is on par with the general student population at Cal.
Graduating from Cal is more than a reasonable task. It requires personal effort and good academic skill if nothing else.
That said, yeah I want to see some winning now. But I’m also giving Tedford 20 months from the completion of the SAHPC and Memorial, that’s how long the tree sitters were up there.
May 24th, 2011 at 10:18 pm
Milo – Oregon? U$C? Is that a fair comparison? Why compare Cal to schools with sleazy athletic departments on matters unrelated to academics, including one that has now been punished for its non-academic violations (which hopefully stick on appeal). If the leading justification for Tedford is that he runs a clean program, that is an unacceptably low standard to meet.
To accept the premise that Cal’s academics are such that it is harder to get a degree, then the data should suggest similar numbers at D-1 schools that are reasonably academically equivalent – the APR numbers should be low. But the data generally does not come out that way.
Take UCLA. 956 APR over the last 4 years, and 969 in 2009-2010 (Better than Cal).
Or Georgia Tech. 966 and 978 (Significantly better than Cal).
UVA 947 and 933 (analogous to Cal in that slightly worse over the last 4 years, and slightly better in the most recent year).
Michigan 928 and 946 (interesting to me. Tells you things had really slid at Michigan, but something turned around in 2009-2010).
UNC 955 and 949 (better than Cal).
Vanderbilt 977 and 955 (significantly better than Cal).
Duke 986 and 994 (obviously better).
Now factor in Tedford’s salary. At his salary, if ho-hum results are ok, then one should expect off the chart academics. But that clearly is not the case.
I noted that when the Pac-10 all-academic team was announced for football, Cal was far lower than it should have been, and schools like Oregon actually did better. There was the usual attacks (go back to Holmoe, etc.) that ignored the data. Now this comes out, and it only furthers the point that Cal football’s academics may not be as good as some like to trumpet. Sort of like hearing television color commentators trumper that Tedford is a QB guru, ignoring everything since 2005.
May 25th, 2011 at 5:11 am
All that matters to me is that students who don’t transfer to play football somewhere else or go pro early end up getting their degree. including those anomalies in the stats makes the data useless.
May 25th, 2011 at 5:31 am
Eric, what’s your point? Get rid of Tedford?
May 25th, 2011 at 7:58 am
It is deception. Football players are recruited on the basis that your school is the #1 public university in the world but the intention is that they play football first and then comes academics. That is why few if any of your football players take difficult majors. It is the worst kept secret that Tedford during his time in Oregon learned how to railroad players into “gimmee” type classes and degree programs.
You guys claim to take the high road but this is just another case which makes you lower than other programs. At least the other ones don’t hold out the carrot on the stick. The next thing you will hear is that your coaches teach players how to feign injury but in your close minded way that isn’t really cheating.
May 25th, 2011 at 8:18 am
scanctions…
May 25th, 2011 at 10:30 am
morencarecoming, what it your main reason for posting on this site? Just curious why someone would really just want to stir things up for no reason. I think your posts are usless and annoying and take away from this great page. Furthermore its hard to take someone serious that seams to hide behind internet post, you really need a hobby!
May 25th, 2011 at 11:23 am
@nickle – well, I am on record that I think Cal should get a younger, more eager coach at far less cost because I think Tedford is past his prime and has become Braun 2.0. I already predicted months ago we will go 5-7, and nothing in Spring practice has changed my mind.
But my particular point here was to address one defense several hardcore Tedford supporters have raised. Having mediocre win/loss results may be ok if the academics for the football team is top of the table. But we now have data that suggests it is not the case. So if the football teams’ academics are not superior (for what is obviously a superior academic institution – anyone see the Times Higher Education rankings? Cal is 4th in the world), the win/loss record is mediocre, and the coach is extremely highly paid, where does that lead you?
@moron – I’m surprised that you and your ilk haven’t yet found a way to buy off the NCAA appellate board like you buy players. I know economic times are tough, but if you had the funds to land Reggie Bush and OJ Mayo, presumably you could scrounge up something to offer. Luckily the rest of the Pac-12 was not dragged down by the taint of the U$C program in negotiating for the richest TV deal in the land.
May 25th, 2011 at 12:19 pm
Looking forward to a thin, weakened USC this year. And next year, and the year after that. These sanctions will take their toll.
USC cheated and all of their illegitimate wins on the national stage are a stain on the PAC-12 conference.
Hopefully the program learned a lesson and will clean its act up so it does not embarrass us again.
May 25th, 2011 at 12:30 pm
Eric what funds were spent by sc to get bush? I never heard that before. I thought the allegations were that
an agent was giving his parents free rent a few years after he was landed and some in the program knew or should have known about it.
May 25th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
@covinred – I was employing a little bit of the old tongue in cheek. I don’t believe the NCAA has found that U$C actually directly paid Reggie Bush. But in addition to the free rent, Bush (including family members) allegedly accepted benefits, including cash, worth tens of thousands of dollars while he was employed by…er….playing for U$C. U$C got in trouble because it looked the other way while this was happening. Knowing a player is receiving illegal benefits with significant dollar value and saying nothing in order to have the player continue to play is certainly a form of facilitating payment.
May 25th, 2011 at 1:13 pm
we need to be careful in what stones we throw when we live in a glass house.
May 25th, 2011 at 1:22 pm
These are lies!!!!!! I never thought posters on this board could sink as low as this. I am seriously thinking about leaving it. We have beaten you guys 7 straight games. I am looking forward to 8, 9 and 10.
May 25th, 2011 at 1:24 pm
Given Todd Bozeman, we already shattered one glass house.
May 25th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
breaking news: scanctions upheld in full.
May 25th, 2011 at 4:05 pm
morescsarecoming, please let me know where you are going to be seated at AT&T park this year, id love to sit by you throughout the game!
Not only did USC have a stain from the past but what about your basketball coach’s actions after the pac-10 tournament? cant see Monty acting like that! http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011/03/11/usc-suspends-kevin-oneil-for-rest-of-pac-10-tourney/
May 25th, 2011 at 4:14 pm
U$C…Cheat on!
May 25th, 2011 at 4:21 pm
I think they should also post an ADJUSTED APR, which makes allowances for any player who leaves a program prior to graduation and lands a professional job in the same sport.
You raise, JF, the possibility of Cal’s relatively low score being a result of actual SUCCESS within the program, but come on – you think Cal has had MORE players leave than USC, which is ahead of Cal in APR, during this time? The only way to know is to do more than simply release one APR score. In addition to early departures to go pro, there may be other reasons that are equally as valid, and those should be taken into consideration (without creating a messy loophole situation that people like Coach Calipari would drive a mack truck thru).
So, maybe they should release “APR-pro adjusted”, “APR-transfer adjusted”, etc, type scores.
May 25th, 2011 at 5:42 pm
I think you guys need to improve your spelling. It’s “skank-tions” not “scanctions”. And, yes, we prefer them full force and unreduced.
May 25th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
Take it back. I am not kidding. This has gone on too long. When Jay Heater was here he wouldn’t put up with this kind of nonsense.
May 25th, 2011 at 7:53 pm
USC appeal DENIED.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/05/usc-ncaa-appeal-denied-reggie-bush/1
May 25th, 2011 at 7:57 pm
From what I understand there were a lot of blue chip recruits waiting to see what happened with the USC appeal. Well now they know.
They better give Tosh Lupoi a call while he can still squeeze them in.
May 25th, 2011 at 8:12 pm
MSC’s is very Rattled
May 25th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Eric, APR is not a metric for quality of “academics” in any other than the most general sense. This site may not be the best forum for such discussions, but I would hope that a Cal grad would do a bit of research before making such broad conclusions, including consideration of evidence which would invalidate your hypothesis.
To me, it sounds like you are building a strawman. You don’t like Tedford — We get that.
May 25th, 2011 at 10:03 pm
Poor ‘$C fans. They thought they had a shot. They had a feeling this appeal thing might just work out. They would show everybody.
But now, all of their hopes & dreams have been crushed, the fleeting chance of a successful appeal that each Trojan fan pinned his hope and his heart to, shattered.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
May 26th, 2011 at 6:48 am
I didn’t attend one game last year because Daddy refused to attend. He is so frustrated with your program he just gave away his tieckets to friends.
May 26th, 2011 at 6:53 am
I might also add that his friends invited me to attend. They know I know football and I am a great resource for them. Your fans are the stupidest ones in the Pac 12. And it shows by the comments on this board.
May 26th, 2011 at 7:16 am
Sorry Cal fans are stupid and your dad didn’t want his tickets or whatever, but my point remains:
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
May 26th, 2011 at 7:24 am
Does it take you very long to write your post? I can see you have a lot of thought invested in each one.
May 26th, 2011 at 8:31 am
Pointing/laughing doesn’t take very long and doesn’t require a lot of thought. But I think you are missing the point here. Let me reiterate:
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
May 26th, 2011 at 8:59 am
lol.
Amy is squirming away with her tail between her legs, crying about her trojan appeal that was a big, fat FAIL. hahaha
May 26th, 2011 at 9:20 am
I see you have added more HAs. That must be hard for you.
May 26th, 2011 at 10:15 am
Isnt USC in the news again this week “May forfeit ’04 Title” USC has been such an embarrassment for this conference- can’t we kick them out?
May 26th, 2011 at 10:17 am
I’d rather we got New Mexico, Texas or A&M – not that I like those schools and I dislike Mack Brown but USC brings us such a bad reputation.
May 26th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Texas A&M sounds good. Or Hawaii. Hawaii would be a great addition to the Pac-12, and would not disgrace the conference like U$C does.
May 26th, 2011 at 10:59 am
U$C football operates on the same mentality as the banks who floated derivatives against their own loans.
May 26th, 2011 at 11:18 am
sc cheated for too long and finally has been held accountable.
It’s interesting and amazing to see the sc fan who can’t get enough of Cal, ever…
Very gratifying that University of California is so big time to draw such manic hate from a person.
Bravo Bears!
May 26th, 2011 at 11:38 am
@Dipole Moment
I think you should re-read what I wrote. I am pointing to data, which you can give whatever weight you want to it, that counters one argument folks have raised in defense of Tedford as his win/loss record has declined. It is just a piece of data, similar to the data concerning the 2010 Pac-10 All-Academic football team, which I pointed out several months ago actually undermined the argument that under Tedford Cal’s football team has among the best academic “success.” Of course, the All-Academic team does not tell the whole story either – it is entirely possible that a team has 5 really excellent students who get All-Academic honors and 95 village idiots, but that goes to the weight of evidence, not the existence of it.
If you have enough pieces of data, each of which is itself not dispositive of anything but collectively gives rise to a well-reasoned conclusion, at some point it is worth addressing. Or should have the response to the statement “He hasn’t got any clothes on!” been, “well, he’s just a little boy, he doesn’t know anything.”
I see you have offered no facts in response, or any indication of what particular “research” one should undertake, or anything supporting your broadly worded conclusion that the “APR is not a metric for quality of ‘academics’ in any other than the most general sense.” Why not?
May 26th, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Kiffin will bail.
May 26th, 2011 at 12:17 pm
Last year when we were second to Stanford in apr, it was a big deal for me. This year, its not that important.
May 26th, 2011 at 1:49 pm
Agree…Kiffie will bail, or get dumped and then $C will have to hire a “clean up” specialist like Ty Willingham.
May 26th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
“I might also add that his friends invited me to attend.”
Moron claims to have friends? I think that’s the biggest fabrication Moron has made on a Cal board in the 10 years he/she/most likely an it has been posting on them.
May 26th, 2011 at 10:11 pm
I suppose every conference has their Ohio State, and SC is ours. Just like every board has their troll and MoreNCsarecoming is ours. Hopefully, our troll has the good taste to shut up and disappear for awhile. If not, we can all offer our own HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA, etc.
May 27th, 2011 at 9:18 am
I agree: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
I am indifferent to our troll. If it is here or not doesn’t matter to me. Much of what it says is just hyperbole. It tries to stir up the pot because in it’s real life, it feels insignificant. At least on these boards, when we feed the troll, it feels like it matters, therefore it continues to antagonize. It lives by the motto: negative attention is better than no attention. It is childish, but it is what it is.
May 27th, 2011 at 2:32 pm
Very valid point Larry!
May 27th, 2011 at 2:33 pm
I disagree that JO is the troll, but agree that moren is good for business.
May 27th, 2011 at 2:41 pm
Nah, that troll was on other boards before this one. Amy has been around for a very long time.
It’s just some sad, lonely person, probably with psychiatric problems, who has some weird obsession with Cal (who knows what the reason is or if there is one).
May 27th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
For the record, I am not JO. I possess far more in depth football knowledge than he does. Why should my posts be deleted. I don’t call people names. I am respectful. I know football. My abilities balance out the shallowness of the many posters on this board. Who wants a bunch of homers? End your pablum and learn something about football and maybe just maybe you wouldn’t need me around this blog.
May 27th, 2011 at 6:16 pm
what is “depth football knowledge?”
May 27th, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Moron,
Honestly, have you ever PLAYED football at any level?
May 28th, 2011 at 12:53 am
$20 says the troll used a thesaurus to come up with the word “pablum”
May 28th, 2011 at 9:35 am
“I suppose every conference has their Ohio State, and SC is ours. Just like every board has their troll and MoreNCsarecoming is ours. Hopefully, our troll has the good taste to shut up and disappear for awhile.”
It unfortunately appears that MoreNCsarecoming is indeed completely lacking in good taste. So…HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.
May 28th, 2011 at 11:21 am
Hey moren, you respond to every little thing that ppl here say about you. What do you say to some ppl’s claims that they think you might be suffering from some mental/mood problems? It seems like that’s the general spoken/non-spoken assessment of you and your posts here.. including myself.
May 28th, 2011 at 3:13 pm
Where did you play morescarecoming? And do you post on other Pac12 blogs or just Cal’s?
May 29th, 2011 at 11:18 pm
My post was deleted again!? I just gave the correct spelling of ‘pabulum’ and my post gets deleted?
May 30th, 2011 at 6:52 am
Larry, I had my post(s) deleted too when responding to moron. Needless to say I was pretty upset when I realized that happened. No warning nor any notification of which standard I’ve broken. I thought it was a legitimate response.
I was once a regular on this website but seriously lost respect for whoever is administering this site (is it JO?), especially considering the fact that moron’s posts never, ever get deleted even though almost every single one of his/her post does not contribute to any football related discussion and is flat out intended simply to anger Cal fans.
Simply, in my opinion, there’s no integrity on this website.
May 30th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
JO’s a businessman. He knows Moron is good for getting hits.
June 1st, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Has anyone added up the number of your football players majoring in Social Welfare, Sociology and American Studies.It is quite embarassing don’t you think. You put them into these gimmee programs and your APR is still laughable.
June 1st, 2011 at 3:17 pm
Moron has (hardly surprising)an exceedingly selective memory about its predictions. Its easy to hoot and crow about the ones it gets right because it predicts Cal to lose every game. However on one in particular, it was totally wrong- by claiming that the NCAA would never sanction the Sleazy Cheaters because ‘they [NCAA] need us [the Sleazy Cheaters]more than we need them’. No kidding!
June 1st, 2011 at 5:22 pm
Moren might be good for business of running this site, but certainly not good for keeping the quality and integrity of this site that’s supposed to be about Cal sports and celebration of them by their fans. Let’s just ignore the troll. It was working for awhile. I am tired of this never-ending, inane bickering between the hateful sociopath and those he always manages to stir..