- Bottoms Up (RSS)Struise Browers: The best brewer in the world? Pure Disney, Belgian beer expert Tim Webb says
By William Brand
Tuesday, July 29th, 2008 at 8:13 am in Uncategorized.
Ratebeer.com’s best-beer statistics are always interesting. Often, I agree. But when they name: Struise Brouwers, a brewery in Belgium I’ve never heard of as the “best brewer in the world,” I couldn’t help myself, I was skeptical. Basically, the little contract brewery got the most votes in a system Ratebeer uses that gives more weight to expert beer raters. Still? The best?
So I asked the ultimate English language expert: Tim Webb, author of the Good Beer Guide to Belgium series, published by the English Campaign for Real Ale. He’s English, has traveled widely in Belgium for years and really knows his Belgian beer. Here’s Tim’s reply:
I
am deeply disappointed in the ratebeer guys.
I appreciate what they are trying to do and they are very good at helping to put beer on the map, which is an excellent thing. However, they nearly buried Westvleteren with the ludicrous claim that they produced ‘the best beer in the world’ (shouldn’t that have been ‘pretty good beers from the world’s cutest sounding brewery?)
Now they nominate a brewing firm that has not even invested in a brewery (and anyway is only be a couple of years old) to be the very finest producers of our favoured beverage anywhere on Earth. I mean is that likely? I think not.
Do you get to gain great expertise that quickly? I hope not.
All adolescents get crushes – it’s part of growing up.
‘A Brewery that a bunch of beer drinkers are most impressed by recently’ would be fine, no problem. Best brewers in the world? Give me a break. Covering it could make a good piece on the limits to the value of opinions but PLEASE don’t add to the embarasment by giving this naieve glee-chant unearned credibility.
On the factual side, Struise Brouwers is a switched-on bunch of business-like young beer makers and if they can carry on their early promise may yet become great brewery owners, as opposed to interesting beer makers. I do not know of the extent of their training – they could have masters degrees at one of the Ghent brewing schools or be home brewers with a passion, I have no idea which.
They began by brewing several rather dull beers at Caulier – a wheat beer, an amber and a blond as I recall. They moved the operation to Deca after De Ranke moved out to a brewery of their own. Then out of nowhere they pulled out some high strength beers with an aged element.
I doubt their beers have all been oak-aged. At least one that stayed on the market was badly faulty – flat as a pancake – and one given to me by them to take away from Zythos Beer Festival exploded a month or two later with all the usual suspects asssitings its lava flow into the sink. On the other hand, the rest I have tried have been a a spectrum from pretty good to seriously interesting. If you want to be an opinion maker you’re supposed to act responsibly.
They are good enough for one beer to feature in ’100 Belgian Beers to Try Before You Die’, which I have written with Joris Pattyn and which will appear on www.booksaboutbeer.com from 1st September this year. Only two other non-brewery-owners get that privilege – with Senne brewery getting three listed BTW.
They are certainly on a roll in the U..S by the sound of it, but then yours is a nation that has at times raved about Fantome and Michelob. In my view their elevation to the heavenly choirs is premature, and more the expression of exuberant enthusiasm rather a studied observation of excellence.
I am slightly biased by my view that the whole concept of a ‘best beer / brewery’ is pure Disney and very very American. If someone could explain to me how you judge Keesmann Herren Pils in a heads up against,say, Drie Fonteinen Oude Kriek, Nogne O Imperial Stout and Saison Dupont I might take the concept more seriously but till then I am afraid I will put it in the ‘Yankee Tosh’ file along with the latest efforts to get all sentimental about Bud.
Tim W
By the way, Tim says his next edition of the Good Beer Guide to Belgium comes out in June, 2009. Order the current volume at www.booksaboutbeer.com.
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July 29th, 2008 at 9:44 am
I really like ratebeer as a resource, but I acknowledge there are problems within their ratings. Too much emphasis is given to going big in many cases.
July 29th, 2008 at 10:06 am
They may not have a brewery or brewing science degrees but since the award was for best brewers, I don’t see where those would be necessary. Struise made some damn good beer and ratebeer.com raters were able to get their hands on some well traveled samples. Nothing more than that but I don’t see any reason to make it less.
Here’s a great interview with the brewers:
http://www.thebrewingnetwork.com/archive/dwnldarchive03-23-08.mp3
Get a bottle of Pannepot and give it a listen. Tim, you should probably have a Westvleteren. They have a brewery.
Mike McDole
July 29th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Good point MIke. But the BEST BREWERS IN THE WORLD? Isn’t that kind of a reach? Sure, they’ve made a handful of excellent beers for a short period of time. That’s a long, long way from the best in the world, I think. Obviously, I’ve got to run down the beers. They’re imported by the Shelton Brothers, which means they’ll be damn hard to find. Obviously, they’re worth the hunt.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Joey at South bay Liquors in San Diego has the Dutch Pannepot available, very similar to the Belgian version. They ship. Also, Liquor Max has the Struissellensis (Brett B and Pedio) available. Both are worth it.
“Best brewer” is a strong title, like I said yesterday, but these beers are VERY good. There are at least two brewers in Santa Rosa who could give the Struisse guys a run for their money in my humble opinion, though.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
For the record, Tim, I’m still raving about Fantome.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Yes, that’s my point Tim. Sure they may be great beers. But the best in the world? The mind boggles, statisticians laugh in great glee. Ratebeer needs some parameters here. Insiders fave brewer, perhaps.
I haven’t checked yet, but if the Shelktos import it, I should be able to find it or ask for it.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
One issue we’re working on ratebeer.com is limiting the influence of prior ratings on people rating the beer. We’re also adjusting our formulae to be less responsive to sudden changes — reducing volatility. I’d consciously dropped those factors several years ago to build some kind of group spirit and dynamism to the site. The end result opf these changes will be that meteoric rises in popularity will be statistically dampened.
Something RateBeer does now and does well is mitigate the opinions of a single person. We know that there can be no single beer taste expert a la Robert Parker. There can’t possibly be, simply because of the gross variation in our sensitivity to various beer flavors. If one person senses phenols or diacetyls to 10 or 100 times that of another. We’re tasting beer differently, so all of us, even those with expert level knowledge and experience, will have slightly different preferences.
There isn’t a top beer or brewer in our history that some taster with decades of experience and a rich tasting history hasn’t trashed for one reason or another.
As an example, look at Tim Webb’s Belgian co-author on his recent Best ‘100 Belgian Beers to Try Before You Die’, Joris Pattyn, who is an internationally renowned beer taster, posts thousands of beer tasting notes at ratebeer and is also an administrator at ratebeer. Joris rates *four* Struise beers in the 4 points plus (excellent) range.
Listening to many people is the nature of our forum and what we present the public. It’s not a single opinion. It won’t please everyone. We deliver a tempered, validity-increased collective opinion and I’m completely fine with praise and ire that produces.
I respect Tim Webb and his opinions a great deal. His work has been key to expanding the borders of beer appreciation in his native England to Belgium and beyond — something we at RateBeer care a lot about and support wholeheartedly. However, Tim’s dismissal of RateBeer as Yankee hooey is not exactly going to send us tens of thousands of beer tasters worldwide packing!
Cheers
Joe Tucker
Executive Director
RateBeer.com
July 29th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
This all just stems from a guy who doesn’t like there being a rating system for beers. A guy who’s writing a book about the top 100 Belgian beers.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
No, it’s about 100 Belgian Beers to Try Before You Die, follows Roger Protz’s CAMRA book 100 beers to try before you die. They’re not make a judgment; they’re just saying here are 100 beers worth trying.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I’m confused. If “the best” is unquantifiable Yankee tosh, then why does it matter who the silly Yanks (ignoring for the moment the vast number of non-American continent residing members) number one?
Clearly Tim has some ideas about who the best is and the tone of his response reflects his disagreement with the “winner” more than it does what he claims is the patently silly endeavor of making the list in the first place.
In short, is it not ridiculous to give a serious analysis of the merits of something that is silly? Well Mr. Webb’s response is a bit like giving a serious artistic critique of the doodling of a school aged child. He claims naming a number one is silly and reminds us that Americans (again ignoring the fact that ratebeer.com members are not exclusively American) are silly enough to value Fantome and Michelob.
Mr. Webb reacts as if ratebeer.com members had voted someone ludicrously undeserving, like say Miller Brewing, the best brewery in the world. Silly yes and not worthy of a reaction.
Yet react he does. This suggests a motivation more in keeping with a belief that ratebeer.com members just got it wrong, by Tim’s guidelines, than that ratebeer.com members are just a silly gaggle of neophytes that think Michelob is one of the world’s best beers.
July 29th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Nice emphasis on the *four*, Joe. However, let’s expand on that rather out-of-context statistic.
Joris may rate 4 Struise beers at 4.0 or above on ratebeer’s scale. However, he’s rated 347 beers in total above that scale. Only one of the Struises, my personal favourite too – Black Albert, is in his top 100 beers (he’s rated 4254 as of today, most of which are admittedly high quality ones rather than macro swill).
Actually, it seems he has 5, not 4, Struises in that top band. However, he also has 5 Stones, 5 Fantoms, and 7 Regenboogs, 8 Boons (I didn’t see what he has between “B” and “S” alphabetically). He also has 8 3 Fonteinens and 12 Cantillons in his top 50 (at 4.5 and above, not his top 347 at 4.0 and above).
Your statistic doesn’t seem to make Struise particularly exceptional in Joris’ eyes, although I obviously cannot speak for him (though perhaps his ratings do).
July 29th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
I think Tim was just reacting to the “best in the world” tag. Thought it was a little far-fetched, a statistical aberration. In fact, at the moment, I’m downing a pint of Pliny the Elder from Russian River, Santa Rosa, CA, Right now, this minute, I’d easily rate it the best beer in the world. Last night, I drank Omegeddon II from Ommegang. Thought it was easily the best. So many beers, so little time.
July 30th, 2008 at 2:11 am
William – I’m confused what qualifies you to make the statements you have done in comments number 3 and 6.
After all you say you’ve previously never heard of Struise.
I’m not sure what kind of serious beer journalist can really never have heard of them. They are exported to your nation.
Then in your mention of Ron’s Amsterdam pub guide you claim not to have heard of Barclay Perkins (a long gone London brewer). Surely some research is needed if we are to take you seriously???
July 30th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Well, ask me about West Coast craft beer and I’ve just about written the book. But Belgium? I’ve visited twice, love the beer, am fairly familiar with some of it. In fact, I realize I had tried one of the De Struise beers. But an expert? Nope. I’m a journalist who happens to really love beer. Michael Jackson, I;m not.
It’s just that when someone says this is the best blah blah blah in thw world, I’m instantly skeptical. The world is a very large place. To me, the “world’s best brewer has gotta have a track record longer than three years. Three years is just a blip in time. They may be really great brewers, but the very best in the entire world? The mind boggles.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:29 am
With respect, I just want to point out that the certificate above has the year “2008″ written really big on it. Not the word “EVER.” It also says “brewers” and not “breweries.”
Struise has generated a lot of buzz over the past year with beers that a lot of people (especially U.S. beer geeks, for whatever reason) really like. I’ll admit I’m enamored with them. Not everyone has to agree.
I’ll take the awards like I take ratings in general. All in good fun.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Perfectly put Joe. In good fun.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Did you or Tim bother to take a few seconds to figure out how those awards are calculated?
It is also hard to take anyone who claims to be a beer expert seriously if they haven’t even heard of a brewer like Struise. There are many people on the Ratebeer site you and Tim dismiss so easily who seem to have a much greater knowledge of the beer world than you who don’t waste blog space criticizing a site that is International and boasts thousands of members over something they can’t even be bothered to learn more about.
July 30th, 2008 at 9:53 am
Never said I was an expert Jay. Don’t pretend to be. And far from “not being bothered,” I intend to find the beer, check it out and most likely write about it. And furthermore, even if it’s absolutely the beset beer I’ve ever tasted anywhere…well you’ve got my drift.
And by the way, if we get down to sheer numbers: I mean beer drinkers,. The best beer in the world would be some kind of light lager.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:01 am
The part I’m referring to not bothering to learn more about is Ratebeer.com. For starters, a whopping total of THREE people from the US are counted among the top raters on the site. The majority of the site’s most prolific raters hail from Finland, Denmark and the UK. Secondly, best of 2008 means that this brewer did more in 2008 at a higher level than other brewers. It does not imply best brewer ever. Like I said above. Take a few minutes to learn more about what you are criticizing before so readily dismissing it. Many of the statements made in the above blog piece are condescending and dismissive and show no understanding of Ratebeer.com whatsoever.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:02 am
That is three out of the top 20 raters.
July 30th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I understand what you’re saying. However, Ratebeer didn’t say that. They said:Best Brewers in the World in 2008. They didn;’t say our top 20 raters and a majority of ordinary raters think these guys are the best brwerers in the world.
They need to qualify their awards. then, nobody would disagree. My objection is the blanket statement.
I like Ratebeer and BeerAdvocate. I do understand how it works.
July 30th, 2008 at 11:21 am
They qualified it right here:
http://www.ratebeer.com/RateBeerBest/
Maybe if you guys actually took a second to read before clicking directly to the results you would have seen it.
July 30th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Re: J and comment #10, what’s wrong with Miller? Who doesn’t want to live the High Life?
I say Brian Hunt of Moonlight Brewing is the best brewer in the world. What, you haven’t tried his beers before? Well that obviously shows how little you know about beer.
Come on everyone, lighten up!
July 30th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
Hey, I vote for Brian too. And yeah, this isn’t serious. It’s beer, a beverage we all love.,
July 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
What did you say about my mother?!
July 30th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
ill repeat a few things already stated here
1. its brewers, not breweries.
2. its a best of for 1 specific year. Zymurgy magazine just voted Dogfish 90min IPA best beer based on reader responses. same thing.
3. next year, it will likely be the next big thing as the best in the world. is it russian river because more people will finally be able to get bottles and try their brews? will it be the next up and coming scandinavian brewer? could it be a fall back to old favorites? who knows. its not really that big of a deal…its just how the ratings fell in a given year.
July 30th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Fair comment Larry. Most of us know it’s “brewers”. Several readers and posters on this blog have tasted both. Let’s see what they think Pliny or Struise Bros. beers?
Of course, I hate that. You have to judge a beer within its style, I think. Even Bud.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
You don’t have to judge a beer at all. Most people who rate beer on ratebeer or any of the other beer sites do so on a hedonistic scale.
July 30th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Leave the judging for GABF and the other beer competitions around the world brewers enter into when they are looking for medals to hang over their bottles in their breweries and commercials.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:38 am
Oops…
It’s a bit of a shock if you’re talked about, and even get put words in the mouth, when you’re blissfully unaware of the goings-on.
First: the Struise beers. I generally rate, sorry, esteem their special products pretty highly, though that was not the case for their original bread-and-butter products.
That I have 4 or 5 above 4/5 doesn’t come as a surprise.
Though, and here I’m on one line with Tim, even when not to the limits of that supposition – I don’t regard Struise as a brewery, even when I admit that Urbain is a
But, and here we get on the crux of the “Best of…” issue – it is not because a beer gets, say, 4.8 on the RB scale from me, that it is necessarily the best beer – even not in my own opinion!
De Struise is a perfect example of this: Black Albert might have gotten the highest rating of them all, my personal favourite, is, and immediately and invariably so far, Aardmonnik (the one that will get into the book Tim refers to). It is just that the SYSTEM as from Ratebeer confers them those proportional positions.
If I am at a competition, using the system those organisers prefer, the outcome might be different – not by MUCH, but different all the same.
In my own “rating” system, it would be more clear, but so far nobody understands it, and that’s just fine by me.
I do not take the RB Best outings overly serious – just because of the above; it’s amusing at best, but it MIGHT be a nudge in the back
July 31st, 2008 at 11:42 am
Sorry, the above got sliced half-way.
Here it goes again:
Oops…
It’s a bit of a shock if you’re talked about, and even get put words in the mouth, when you’re blissfully unaware of the goings-on.
First: the Struise beers. I generally rate, sorry, esteem their special products pretty highly, though that was not the case for their original bread-and-butter products.
That I have 4 or 5 above 4/5 doesn’t come as a surprise.
Though, and here I’m on one line with Tim, even when not to the limits of that supposition – I don’t regard Struise as a brewery, even when I admit that Urbain is a great BREWER.
the RB scale from me, that it is necessarily the best beer – even not in my own opinion!
De Struise is a perfect example of this: Black Albert might have gotten the highest rating of them all, my personal favourite, is, and immediately and invariably so far, Aardmonnik (the one that will get into the book Tim refers to). It is just that the SYSTEM as from Ratebeer confers them those proportional positions.
If I am at a competition, using the system those organisers prefer, the outcome might be different – not by MUCH, but different all the same.
In my own “rating” system, it would be more clear, but so far nobody understands it, and that’s just fine by me.
I do not take the RB Best outings overly serious – just because of the above; it’s amusing at best, but it MIGHT be a nudge in the back for a beginning firm as Struise Brouwers to go on, on the way they’re on.
But where I completely disagree with Tim, is in his stance (on Ratebeer posting, true), that because of the Westvleteren ‘debacle’, we (Ratebeer) ought to have some kind of moral obligation to watch our mouths, etc. Tim, with all due respect, that’s b°ll°cks. We’re just another critic – or several 10.000′s, exercing our freedom of speech!
Cheers, Joris
July 31st, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Thanks Joris. Good explanation. And free speech also allows us to scoff a bit at RateBeer’s “best brewers in the world in 2008″ pronouncement.
Obviously, as a mere West Coast Caliornia hops-gone-wild dude, I gotta’ try these beers.
July 31st, 2008 at 12:53 pm
William, it’s ok, I’m in the process of putting a gold foil stamp on a piece of paper that says “Northern California – Mario’s 2008 Best Beer Region in the World- Belgium can suck it.”
Ugh, my Belgian grandmother is rolling over right now.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Gentlemen,
as brewmaster at Struise, I think I am allowed to reply to wrong information that has been mentionned in yhe above article. This will be my one and only reaction.
I also notice that a lot of other people have a hard time to accept the above interview with Tim Webb.
From my point of view there is no such thing as best brewers, most beautiful car, fastest plane, etc…
From the moment the award is printed and handed over, there is already better, and faster, etc… but we live most of the time in a free world.
What I care about are facts, and when you engage yourself in marriage, professional life, or through an interview, is that you know what you talk about.
For instance, the one and only faulty beer Tim Webb talks about, and is as flat as a pancake, is the beer (Earthmonk) that is just good enough to feature in ‘100 Belgian Beers to Try Before You Die’. On the other hand, the rest he has tried are in the spectrum from pretty good to seriously interesting. This means that we will figure in the next and at least 15 books of TW to be published….
Secondly, when you criticize a community or a brewer(y), the way you do it is very important! You can be an officer and a gentleman, or you can decide to be somebody else…
My mother always said “Son, when you cannot talk any good about your neighbour, do not talk of him at all, especially when you do not know him, nor his children, or family”.
Other facts are :
Struise invested more than 100,000.00 euro in brewery equipment since the last 12 months. We also doubled our production since last year.
Struise commercially brewed their first beer in 2001.
Struise developed their first beer back in 1983.
Struise does not want to be the first nor the best.
Struise is simply about a bunch of 4 good friends that want to produce pretty good & interesting artisan beers.
Struise thinks good journalistic work is all about research.
I wish everybody a nice weekend and Cheers to you all,
Urbain Coutteau,
Struise Brouwer
July 31st, 2008 at 7:57 pm
And a nice weekend to you Urbain. Thanks for the note. Obviously, I’m going on a ferocious hunt to find your beer here in California. Can’t wait to try it.
August 1st, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I like what I like. My ratings, and others’ ratings, are compiled to make up the “Best of…” list for individual beers. Individual beers make up the “Best Brewers…” list. It’s not a definitive, be-all-end-all list much like “Best Band..”, “Best Album…”, Grammy Awards, Oscars, etc. aren’t for their respective categories. I respect Tim’s opinion, I respect Joris’s opinion, I respect most Ratebeerians’ opinions, and while those opinions will make me purchase a beer, they will not influence my opinion of a beer nor will their opinions make me buy more of any beer because I’m supposed to like it.
August 1st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Well said Mark. I totally agree.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:25 am
Pannepøt (or Pannepeut) is not Dutch. It is Danish.
Thank you.
August 13th, 2008 at 5:04 am
The more things change…the more they stay the same. No?
I think this quote from Tim Webb himself sums up the whole non-argument argument.
“If you want to be an opinion maker you’re supposed to act responsibly.”.
Never had a Struise beer myself. Won’t go out of my way to “seek one out” either. Opinions are like…
Cheers!
August 13th, 2008 at 5:28 am
The lists that sites such as RB and BA compile are indeed as subjective as my cat’s interest in her catnip-filled coosh; it comes and goes on a whim. These “best=of” lists should be regarded as simply the highest rated beers by those tickers who have the time to post to these sites. Folks that seek out every latest hot beer, these so-called tickers, create a feeding frenzy that verges on mob ticknaciousness, a vicious chicken and egg cycle in which both are consumed by the ever increasing hype.
I like some of the Struisse beers. But best in the world, in 2008? Urbain hits the nail on the head when he writes, “there is no such thing as best brewers, most beautiful car, fastest plane.” Can some of this be quantified? Yes, certainly. But it also needs to be qualified, over and over again, thus rendering any list incomplete, inoperable, and insensate.
August 13th, 2008 at 6:19 am
I think Aardmonnik/Earthmonk was a fine choice for inclusion into the new book of Tim and Joris.
I found Aardmonnik to be outstanding, both on my visit with Urbain et al at “The Resort” at De Struise in 2007, and at the Deca brewery the next day. I hope we see Aardmonnik stateside soon.
Never had the pleasure of tasting the Black Albert as yet, sadly.
Cheers,
Chuck C.
August 13th, 2008 at 8:46 am
to Tannhayser…I’ll drink to that, maybe an Aardmonnik if I had one.
August 14th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
Try the Danish or Belgian version of Pannepøt against Westy 12, Rochefort 10, St. Bernardus 12….I’m not saying what’s best but damn, those are some tasty brews, some of the worlds’ best for that style (though I think I’d prefer a Westy 8!).
I like RB and BA but take their top lists with a grain of salt. We each have different tastes. However, when 1974 people rate Rochefort as excellent, or 700 people rate Pannepot as excellent, that is a good guide for me to want those brews. Likewise, when 860+ people rate Michelob Ultra as not so good, I won’t be seeking out that beast! Additionally, the Burgundian Babble Belt (Belgian Beer lovers) rated Struise as the best brewery at the end of last year…
“Brewery of the year, Belgian:
1st place: De Struise Brouwers – runaway winners with a total of 9 votes (from the 33 cast in this category – a great performance)
2nd place: tie between St Bernardus, Alvinne, Cantillon and De la Senne, all of which received two votes each.”
None of has to agree, but there’s a big love for top ten or top 100 lists, whether it’s movies, beaches, hot dogs or beer. I like such lists…ayieeee!!
August 14th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
The nice thing about the RB or the BA system is the comments that people write down about the beers they have tasted.
I think this is more valuable than points because it explanes why the taster likes the beer or not.
Some comments are really fantastic if you see how some of the raters are able to detect special spices, hop varieties and other ingredients in the beer.
Some of them are real poëts, others are very techincal, some are good some less good and some are real Pro’s.
Beer-journalists can learn here.
The more ratings a beer get, the more the puzzle falls into place on levels of what its worth and I mean on its true value as a well crafted product.
Cheers,
Carlo
August 15th, 2008 at 2:42 am
We could continue to discuss forever regarding this topic.
Who is right and who is wrong? Who acts professionally, who is an amateur? What is the definition of good or bad beer? Good, better, best, and other 100 lists, why is one catalogued as subjective, the other as objective?
When somebody gathers information around a beer, because he thinks it is good, and decides to publish that information in a book. His main intentions are to sell that book, so he can earn money with it.
What happens if the above person uses the same information in a negative way to ruin the reputation of that beer or to harm the reputation of its producer?
How do we call somebody who has the audacity to criticize a 100 list of a colleague or a community, while he makes publicity for his own 100 list in that same interview?
Should I discard the result of more than 1000 opinions, gathered worldwide, regarding one beer, and should I follow his opinion because he says so?
To what level, the blog owner can be held responsible for broadcasting and widely spreading an article full of subjective content, misleading information, and negative publicity?
Is it professional, and honest, or objective to attack a colleague, community, beer, brewer, brewery, when you make your life in the same sector? Living on it? Enriching yourself by it?
Phil
August 15th, 2008 at 7:53 am
OK, let;s be blunt. Proclaiming something the best in the world on a shallow basis, is sheer press agentry. If Rate Beer is the final word, then the Barnum & Bailey circus is absolutely the greatest show on earth.
August 15th, 2008 at 7:58 am
to Carlo… I value the RB and BA sites. It’s fascinating to see what people think about a particular beer. There’s another site I also like a lot. Oxford Beer Data Base. But here’s the rub: best in the whole goddamn world? Huh?
Truth is, if everybody in Americaa who drinks beer voted, Budweiser would no doubt win. In other countries it would no doubt be the lager of choice.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
It is a petty, you did not find the courage to answer these questions.
Considor yourself lucky to live in the US, because in the Netherlands, we have a juridical system which would fine you a lot of money a day, and for every day this negative publicity would be on your website. Furthermore, you would be fined ever so hard for the fact that hundreds of other blogs have copy pasted your article, you being the only responsible
August 19th, 2008 at 2:53 am
The discussion continues…
http://belgianbeerboard.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=88888993&board=1.0
Phil, we’re living in a free world. Free speech is one of the achievements.
Cheers,
Filip
August 21st, 2008 at 3:04 pm
To William,
I apologize for my last comment. After deeper study, I must admit that you can not be held responsible for other hosts linking to your articles.
However, hosts, providers & search engines who link to your article can be held fully responsible, when there is enough proof of calumny and/or defamation.
Ratebeer never mentionned or issued a title or award of “Best brewer in the world”. Technically spoken, is the above article made on an error of judgment? Or could it just be that the US vocabulary differs so much from English vocabulary that this whole thread is based upon a traduction problem?
Yours sincerely, Phil
January 4th, 2010 at 8:07 am
Life is too short for bad beer.
May 9th, 2011 at 11:37 pm
Nothing to see here… Tim Webb raving about Gueuze, Lambic and Kriek, hating on anything that is outside of those styles and self-promoting his books. In fact, I saw Tim Webb at this year’s Alvinne craft beer festival and asked him about his ridiculous biased ratings for the Pajottenland brews (they get the vast majority of 5 star rating in the GBG Belgium) and he gave me some BS about he likes all styles, etc. Funny, how a few months later he was at Frank Boon’s joint during the Tour de Guezue (awesome event BTW) doing a book signing for his Pajottenland book! Hmmmmm ….
As for the anti-Yankee comments, sounds like pure jealousy — can anyone name me any UK breweries (outside of Thornbridge) that stack up to Russian River, 3 Floyds, etc.???
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, and Tim Webb has a vested interest (i.e. financial) to value his. IMHO, De Struisse produced some of the very finest beers I have tasted.