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	<title>Comments on: Teaching for the Tests?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 17 May 2013 21:30:39 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15855</link>
		<dc:creator>teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Students like Jesse and Javier are the type who will learn on their own. Curious and very intelligent, they probably don&#039;t even need to be in school, or at least not one hyper-structured like the current ones.  However, they are the exception, not the norm.

Testing is normative. It works well for those who are neither so internally or intrinsically motivated (i.e., by curiousity or the enjoyment of work) that they don&#039;t need external or extrinsic motivation, or for those who are so depressed or retarded that they can find no success on any &quot;normed&quot; test not built to hit them in what educators call their &quot;zone of proximal development.&quot;

The problems start long before the tests kick in. Long before kids get to high-stakes testing, they have usually lost their innate human ability to enjoy DIFFICULT learning for its own sake. Some of this is family/community environment and some is school itself, which is still largely based on out-dated industrial and pre-industrial models.

(As a parent, I fear leaving my children in the school system for precisely this reason. It is hard to afford alternatives like Montessori or Waldorf that focus on intrinsic motivation models.)

In the current system, by middle school and up, testing is a necessary accountability tool because children have developed a desire to &quot;get over&quot; and see learning as an uncool chore. Overwhelmed teachers with caseloads of 140-170 students find it impossible to conceive, assign, assess and give feedback on alternative ways students can show mastery (essays, oral presentations, debates, etc.), at least regularly.

Testing is enjoying a resurgence not because it is so great, but because we are desperate, and society lacks the will OR COHESION to embrace significant (and expensive) alternatives for public school.

Right now in Oakland, we are giving the CAHSEE test. Before I taught here, I was against the test. Now, I&#039;m not so sure. Certainly, there need to be accommodations for language, disability, etc. But when you see so many kids getting a high school degree just for showing up each day and learning NOTHING, it has to make you think about accoubility.

When a student or parent tells me they or their child &quot;doesn&#039;t test well,&quot; I believe them. But when that student is unwilling or able to do homework, to come to tutoring, to embrace curiousity about the subject or the world beyond ... well, it leaves us little room to help them beyond exhortations that mean little to them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Students like Jesse and Javier are the type who will learn on their own. Curious and very intelligent, they probably don&#8217;t even need to be in school, or at least not one hyper-structured like the current ones.  However, they are the exception, not the norm.</p>
<p>Testing is normative. It works well for those who are neither so internally or intrinsically motivated (i.e., by curiousity or the enjoyment of work) that they don&#8217;t need external or extrinsic motivation, or for those who are so depressed or retarded that they can find no success on any &#8220;normed&#8221; test not built to hit them in what educators call their &#8220;zone of proximal development.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problems start long before the tests kick in. Long before kids get to high-stakes testing, they have usually lost their innate human ability to enjoy DIFFICULT learning for its own sake. Some of this is family/community environment and some is school itself, which is still largely based on out-dated industrial and pre-industrial models.</p>
<p>(As a parent, I fear leaving my children in the school system for precisely this reason. It is hard to afford alternatives like Montessori or Waldorf that focus on intrinsic motivation models.)</p>
<p>In the current system, by middle school and up, testing is a necessary accountability tool because children have developed a desire to &#8220;get over&#8221; and see learning as an uncool chore. Overwhelmed teachers with caseloads of 140-170 students find it impossible to conceive, assign, assess and give feedback on alternative ways students can show mastery (essays, oral presentations, debates, etc.), at least regularly.</p>
<p>Testing is enjoying a resurgence not because it is so great, but because we are desperate, and society lacks the will OR COHESION to embrace significant (and expensive) alternatives for public school.</p>
<p>Right now in Oakland, we are giving the CAHSEE test. Before I taught here, I was against the test. Now, I&#8217;m not so sure. Certainly, there need to be accommodations for language, disability, etc. But when you see so many kids getting a high school degree just for showing up each day and learning NOTHING, it has to make you think about accoubility.</p>
<p>When a student or parent tells me they or their child &#8220;doesn&#8217;t test well,&#8221; I believe them. But when that student is unwilling or able to do homework, to come to tutoring, to embrace curiousity about the subject or the world beyond &#8230; well, it leaves us little room to help them beyond exhortations that mean little to them.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim Shipp</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15852</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Shipp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 18:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15852</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Recently I was having a debate with an individual regarding the absolute truth of the Bible. I commented to this individual that the Bible was truth absolutely. He told me my thinking was narrow, I told him he was absolutely right, because &quot;the way is narrow and few find it&quot;.

I just returned from the National Title One Conference in Nashville TN. I was discussing with someone this very issue of teaching to the test. We concluded that this is what teachers should be doing, because if you teach standards, students should not have any trouble passing the &quot;standards test&quot;-right.

 Question: What else would one teach to determine subject mastery?

Something to think about: In a survey given to parents in America and China asking them what was the number one thing they wanted from teachers. The American parents answer was compassion.
China&#039;s parents answer, rigor and content.

Some things should be looked at narrowly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently I was having a debate with an individual regarding the absolute truth of the Bible. I commented to this individual that the Bible was truth absolutely. He told me my thinking was narrow, I told him he was absolutely right, because &#8220;the way is narrow and few find it&#8221;.</p>
<p>I just returned from the National Title One Conference in Nashville TN. I was discussing with someone this very issue of teaching to the test. We concluded that this is what teachers should be doing, because if you teach standards, students should not have any trouble passing the &#8220;standards test&#8221;-right.</p>
<p> Question: What else would one teach to determine subject mastery?</p>
<p>Something to think about: In a survey given to parents in America and China asking them what was the number one thing they wanted from teachers. The American parents answer was compassion.<br />
China&#8217;s parents answer, rigor and content.</p>
<p>Some things should be looked at narrowly.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice Spearman</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15853</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice Spearman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 18:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15853</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Javier,
What you wrote speaks to the truth of &quot;The System&quot;.  Knowing this, raise above the nonsense, stay true to yourself and beliefs, beat the system at it&#039;s own game.  My ancesters all told us as young children, to make the changes, you have to infiltrate the system.  I know, I am now in a position to effect change, and even at this level, it is even harder to stay the course, but I will, hopefully make a difference for the betterment of society.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Javier,<br />
What you wrote speaks to the truth of &#8220;The System&#8221;.  Knowing this, raise above the nonsense, stay true to yourself and beliefs, beat the system at it&#8217;s own game.  My ancesters all told us as young children, to make the changes, you have to infiltrate the system.  I know, I am now in a position to effect change, and even at this level, it is even harder to stay the course, but I will, hopefully make a difference for the betterment of society.</p>
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		<title>By: wannaBteacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15854</link>
		<dc:creator>wannaBteacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 06:35:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those students still in high school:

Get a grip.

It&#039;s not your fault that you are nearly hysterical about taking tests and getting into the &quot;right&quot; college.  That&#039;s what society is telling you is important.

In my experience, the only reason to go to the &quot;right&quot; college is 1) networking with wealthy white people, which mostly works if you are a wealthy white person

or

2) Going to a &quot;name&quot; school to increase your chances of getting into the &quot;right&quot; PhD program.  Given that the only thing to do with most PhDs is teach at the university level, and that university jobs are ever more scarce, if you plan to be a professional academic, maybe it makes sense to go to one of those schools.

I took AP and honors courses and all the tests.  (ALERT:  Many universities give the same amount of credit for the AP language test as they do for the AP literature test.  Language is much easier.)

I missed a year of high school (brain surgery, but that&#039;s another story). I chose to go to a small college no one has ever heard of because I was offered a good scholarship.  For my MBA, I went to a state school (CSU East Bay).  Both schools were great experiences.  (Anyone looking to go into business, the CSUEB program is one of the most diverse you will find anywhere.  Close to 50% of the students are international.  In one of my classes, I was grouped with students from Kenya, mainland China, Slovakia and Argentina.  Enough of an advertisement for my alma mater.)

Getting back to the point, I have rarely been asked what college I went to.  Also, after the second week of your freshman year in college, no one will ever ask what your SAT score was.

Data consistently demonstrate that students who go to &quot;name&quot; colleges do not end up being more successful or earning more money than their peers.  (See for example, Wall Street Journal and Newsweek articles in the past year.)

So, chill out.  You should probably pretend like you care about all of these things just so your parents won&#039;t freak out, but don&#039;t believe it has any actual relevance for your future.

Oh, and one of my classmates from the small college that no one has ever heard of?  He was a more or less average student.

He went to Harvard Law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those students still in high school:</p>
<p>Get a grip.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not your fault that you are nearly hysterical about taking tests and getting into the &#8220;right&#8221; college.  That&#8217;s what society is telling you is important.</p>
<p>In my experience, the only reason to go to the &#8220;right&#8221; college is 1) networking with wealthy white people, which mostly works if you are a wealthy white person</p>
<p>or</p>
<p>2) Going to a &#8220;name&#8221; school to increase your chances of getting into the &#8220;right&#8221; PhD program.  Given that the only thing to do with most PhDs is teach at the university level, and that university jobs are ever more scarce, if you plan to be a professional academic, maybe it makes sense to go to one of those schools.</p>
<p>I took AP and honors courses and all the tests.  (ALERT:  Many universities give the same amount of credit for the AP language test as they do for the AP literature test.  Language is much easier.)</p>
<p>I missed a year of high school (brain surgery, but that&#8217;s another story). I chose to go to a small college no one has ever heard of because I was offered a good scholarship.  For my MBA, I went to a state school (CSU East Bay).  Both schools were great experiences.  (Anyone looking to go into business, the CSUEB program is one of the most diverse you will find anywhere.  Close to 50% of the students are international.  In one of my classes, I was grouped with students from Kenya, mainland China, Slovakia and Argentina.  Enough of an advertisement for my alma mater.)</p>
<p>Getting back to the point, I have rarely been asked what college I went to.  Also, after the second week of your freshman year in college, no one will ever ask what your SAT score was.</p>
<p>Data consistently demonstrate that students who go to &#8220;name&#8221; colleges do not end up being more successful or earning more money than their peers.  (See for example, Wall Street Journal and Newsweek articles in the past year.)</p>
<p>So, chill out.  You should probably pretend like you care about all of these things just so your parents won&#8217;t freak out, but don&#8217;t believe it has any actual relevance for your future.</p>
<p>Oh, and one of my classmates from the small college that no one has ever heard of?  He was a more or less average student.</p>
<p>He went to Harvard Law.</p>
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		<title>By: jkenny</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15851</link>
		<dc:creator>jkenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15851</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For those that are curious, which may be few, Skyline students (myself included) all survived finals week!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those that are curious, which may be few, Skyline students (myself included) all survived finals week!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15850</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 20:52:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good points Pat!  I went to a doctor who once benefited greatly from Affirmative Action.  He gave me his diagnosis and I went to another doctor who fell out of his chair in shock.  The second doctor was extremely amused, and I extremely relieved that the first doctor&#039;s diagnosis couldn&#039;t have been more WRONG.  Of course many who benefit from Affirmative Action are competent professionals.  Nevertheless, when it comes to issues of life and death it might be wise to think twice about the prospect of Affirmative Action being a factor of his/her professional status when seeking opinions (or a final word) about issues of life and death, etc.

In short, it&#039;s ability - not just admission to a professional school - that makes for competent professionals.

Regarding elected officials, let us NOT forget that Don Piranha or Perata (sp?) (California&#039;s state senate leader) was a high school History teacher.  But, you’re right! Being a (sleazy or other kind of) lawyer is a great foundation for becoming an integral (cast in cement) component of the foundation of
government(s). Students take note(s)!

P.S. It’s unfortunate that Mother Teresa never went to law school. Don&#039;t you think?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points Pat!  I went to a doctor who once benefited greatly from Affirmative Action.  He gave me his diagnosis and I went to another doctor who fell out of his chair in shock.  The second doctor was extremely amused, and I extremely relieved that the first doctor&#8217;s diagnosis couldn&#8217;t have been more WRONG.  Of course many who benefit from Affirmative Action are competent professionals.  Nevertheless, when it comes to issues of life and death it might be wise to think twice about the prospect of Affirmative Action being a factor of his/her professional status when seeking opinions (or a final word) about issues of life and death, etc.</p>
<p>In short, it&#8217;s ability &#8211; not just admission to a professional school &#8211; that makes for competent professionals.</p>
<p>Regarding elected officials, let us NOT forget that Don Piranha or Perata (sp?) (California&#8217;s state senate leader) was a high school History teacher.  But, you’re right! Being a (sleazy or other kind of) lawyer is a great foundation for becoming an integral (cast in cement) component of the foundation of<br />
government(s). Students take note(s)!</p>
<p>P.S. It’s unfortunate that Mother Teresa never went to law school. Don&#8217;t you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Hudson</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15849</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Hudson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The way to change the system is to become an elected official. Most elected officials in State and Federal office are lawyers (all three Democratic Presidental candidates are lawyers). To become a lawyer you can pass a number of tests at each level. Is it a game? Perhaps. But it is the price of admission.

How many of you would go to a Doctor who did not have to take tests as part of thier of demonstration of competence?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way to change the system is to become an elected official. Most elected officials in State and Federal office are lawyers (all three Democratic Presidental candidates are lawyers). To become a lawyer you can pass a number of tests at each level. Is it a game? Perhaps. But it is the price of admission.</p>
<p>How many of you would go to a Doctor who did not have to take tests as part of thier of demonstration of competence?</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15848</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 06:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15848</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Javier, Aren&#039;t you worried you&#039;ll be sent to the principal&#039;s office for making such comments?  That said I did enjoyed them very much.

As a once upon a time college student I remember having an impression that advancing in school was reminiscent of advancing in the Boy Scouts – except that I think I sometimes got more out of the Boy Scouts for the energy invested.   In the boy scouts (all gender orientations being equal) you earn merit badges to advance from rank to rank.  In high school and college you earn credits to advance from freshman through senior rank to graduation.

Upper education (high school &amp; college) students more often than not elect to take classes or subjects they are not particularly interested in - otherwise we&#039;d have more humanity (Art, History, Music, Literature, etc.) majors and fewer than a BILLION students majoring in (studying) Technology, Business, Medicine, Law, Computer Science, and other potentially lucrative subjects. In the Boy Scouts you choose to learn (earn merit badges) in subjects you’re often interested in, but then what you learn in the scouts doesn’t necessarily impact future earning potential.

Many high school teachers have studied in college what too many others seriously wanted to study but didn’t because they don’t think there was enough (or any) money in it.  Those who choose to follow their academic passion, instead of a lucrative subject with high earning potential, often end up making little while sharing much with their students – when (of course) they’re not busy “teaching to the test.”

Regarding those state tests that you and your classmates have to take, I think the Beach Boys said it best with their lyric admonishing high school students to, &quot;Be true to your school.&quot;  Doing poorly on the tests you’ve been taught to take could contribute to some teachers getting left behind if collective test results threaten the closure or re-organization of your school. It’s important to understand that your teachers might have some personal reasons for “teaching to the test,” so give them your full attention and compassionate support.  Do your very best on the tests you’re taught to take.  Try to understand the BIG picture Javier!

Many teachers at your school probably have children to feed.  You wouldn&#039;t want them to go to bed hungry because their parent were forced to find alternative employment, and end up taking a pay cut working in (for example) the Vegetable department at a supermarket because they were no longer able to work in the Art, English, or History department of your high school.

Do well on those taught to take tests Javier!  Your teachers, and their families, are depending on you!  Be true to your school.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Javier, Aren&#8217;t you worried you&#8217;ll be sent to the principal&#8217;s office for making such comments?  That said I did enjoyed them very much.</p>
<p>As a once upon a time college student I remember having an impression that advancing in school was reminiscent of advancing in the Boy Scouts – except that I think I sometimes got more out of the Boy Scouts for the energy invested.   In the boy scouts (all gender orientations being equal) you earn merit badges to advance from rank to rank.  In high school and college you earn credits to advance from freshman through senior rank to graduation.</p>
<p>Upper education (high school &amp; college) students more often than not elect to take classes or subjects they are not particularly interested in &#8211; otherwise we&#8217;d have more humanity (Art, History, Music, Literature, etc.) majors and fewer than a BILLION students majoring in (studying) Technology, Business, Medicine, Law, Computer Science, and other potentially lucrative subjects. In the Boy Scouts you choose to learn (earn merit badges) in subjects you’re often interested in, but then what you learn in the scouts doesn’t necessarily impact future earning potential.</p>
<p>Many high school teachers have studied in college what too many others seriously wanted to study but didn’t because they don’t think there was enough (or any) money in it.  Those who choose to follow their academic passion, instead of a lucrative subject with high earning potential, often end up making little while sharing much with their students – when (of course) they’re not busy “teaching to the test.”</p>
<p>Regarding those state tests that you and your classmates have to take, I think the Beach Boys said it best with their lyric admonishing high school students to, &#8220;Be true to your school.&#8221;  Doing poorly on the tests you’ve been taught to take could contribute to some teachers getting left behind if collective test results threaten the closure or re-organization of your school. It’s important to understand that your teachers might have some personal reasons for “teaching to the test,” so give them your full attention and compassionate support.  Do your very best on the tests you’re taught to take.  Try to understand the BIG picture Javier!</p>
<p>Many teachers at your school probably have children to feed.  You wouldn&#8217;t want them to go to bed hungry because their parent were forced to find alternative employment, and end up taking a pay cut working in (for example) the Vegetable department at a supermarket because they were no longer able to work in the Art, English, or History department of your high school.</p>
<p>Do well on those taught to take tests Javier!  Your teachers, and their families, are depending on you!  Be true to your school.</p>
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		<title>By: jkenny</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15847</link>
		<dc:creator>jkenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 05:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15847</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed Isabel. I am very glad to see so much student participation at last.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed Isabel. I am very glad to see so much student participation at last.</p>
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		<title>By: Isabel Rodriguez-Vega</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/comment-page-1/#comment-15846</link>
		<dc:creator>Isabel Rodriguez-Vega</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 03:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/01/23/teaching-for-the-tests/#comment-15846</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I really appreciated that blog Javier, because its completely true. I&#039;ve never really thought of it that way before and you stated it perfectly.

Its refreshing to read this because its not the same old, &quot;only doing this for the grade&quot;, &quot;is this the right answer?&quot;, bare minimum response.

I always enjoy reading your comments. You have a way of brutally stating the truth. Almost crossing the line, but not quite.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really appreciated that blog Javier, because its completely true. I&#8217;ve never really thought of it that way before and you stated it perfectly.</p>
<p>Its refreshing to read this because its not the same old, &#8220;only doing this for the grade&#8221;, &#8220;is this the right answer?&#8221;, bare minimum response.</p>
<p>I always enjoy reading your comments. You have a way of brutally stating the truth. Almost crossing the line, but not quite.</p>
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