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	<title>Comments on: Spring testing baffles students</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16372</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 20:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Della: test giving can be a form of teaching. Thus you can get tested on subjects not fully covered and learn from the process of working through the tests and reviewing the results. You are not always being set up for failure on that method. My (HS) classes had prerequisites and we were tested without those prereqs ever being discussed. If you failed you were on notice you had a problem. Certainly the instructor didn&#039;t teach the prereqs. You were supposed to have them down before you came into the class.

Also aptitude and placement tests are given before the students are taught a particular subject.

In college the reading lists and assignments are posted somewhere before classes start - thus a quiz on the first day of class is in order as the students were supposed to have familiarized themselves on a set of points and issues before the first day of class.

So the process you are describing in high school is interesting but it doesn&#039;t always get better/easier in advanced education. I&#039;m very glad your school is preparing you for college.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Della: test giving can be a form of teaching. Thus you can get tested on subjects not fully covered and learn from the process of working through the tests and reviewing the results. You are not always being set up for failure on that method. My (HS) classes had prerequisites and we were tested without those prereqs ever being discussed. If you failed you were on notice you had a problem. Certainly the instructor didn&#8217;t teach the prereqs. You were supposed to have them down before you came into the class.</p>
<p>Also aptitude and placement tests are given before the students are taught a particular subject.</p>
<p>In college the reading lists and assignments are posted somewhere before classes start &#8211; thus a quiz on the first day of class is in order as the students were supposed to have familiarized themselves on a set of points and issues before the first day of class.</p>
<p>So the process you are describing in high school is interesting but it doesn&#8217;t always get better/easier in advanced education. I&#8217;m very glad your school is preparing you for college.</p>
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		<title>By: Della Singleton</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16373</link>
		<dc:creator>Della Singleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 18:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Funny how I am forcing myself to love reading my text books and taking tests geenerally, but it does not work. The tests we as juniors have to take are indifinitely non stop. I believe that we should be required to take a few tests here &amp; now but 3-4 tests a week that&#039;s ridicously. I have a teacher who gives us tests everyday in class WOW! I am  not trying to complain too much but some teachers opt to give tests on levels that they don&#039;t even teach..which is detrimental for one &amp; hilarious on the other hand. One thing I can say is that with all this back and forth I will definitely be prepared for college ;-) because many of my teachers have pushed me to that level, although there are teachers who try to set us up for failure! That part sucks though, because many teachers don&#039;t teach for the love of teaching, but for the love of money..&amp; many teachers are satisfied with their pay checks.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how I am forcing myself to love reading my text books and taking tests geenerally, but it does not work. The tests we as juniors have to take are indifinitely non stop. I believe that we should be required to take a few tests here &amp; now but 3-4 tests a week that&#8217;s ridicously. I have a teacher who gives us tests everyday in class WOW! I am  not trying to complain too much but some teachers opt to give tests on levels that they don&#8217;t even teach..which is detrimental for one &amp; hilarious on the other hand. One thing I can say is that with all this back and forth I will definitely be prepared for college <img src='http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  because many of my teachers have pushed me to that level, although there are teachers who try to set us up for failure! That part sucks though, because many teachers don&#8217;t teach for the love of teaching, but for the love of money..&amp; many teachers are satisfied with their pay checks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Dutton-Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16371</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Dutton-Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 02:22:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you very much Debora!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much Debora!</p>
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		<title>By: Debora</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16370</link>
		<dc:creator>Debora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Apr 2008 00:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jesse:

Your advice does help. We have the kind of values in our home that you discuss; a strong work ethic, a sense of responsibility for our family, extended family and friends, pets, and moral responsibility.

My daughter&#039;s passion is a love of languages: she&#039;s been taking Spanish since preschool and German since Kindergarten. As in painting, skill and expertise do not show up right away - but after you&#039;ve put in effort over time. It&#039;s our way of showing her that effort matters. Like you, probably, she does well in school without much effort. With languages, she must put forth effort.

We have not traveled abroad yet, but are planning a European trip when Blythe is 11. Her German should be very good by then; maybe she will have another language as well.

Your sense of introspection is refreshing. It&#039;s tough to see if my daughter will have that same thoughtfulness. I appreciate what you have to say, and how you say it. Your writing is clear and inviting to read, and what you have to say is worthy of our time. I&#039;ll write again soon - take care, and thank you for your time and effort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse:</p>
<p>Your advice does help. We have the kind of values in our home that you discuss; a strong work ethic, a sense of responsibility for our family, extended family and friends, pets, and moral responsibility.</p>
<p>My daughter&#8217;s passion is a love of languages: she&#8217;s been taking Spanish since preschool and German since Kindergarten. As in painting, skill and expertise do not show up right away &#8211; but after you&#8217;ve put in effort over time. It&#8217;s our way of showing her that effort matters. Like you, probably, she does well in school without much effort. With languages, she must put forth effort.</p>
<p>We have not traveled abroad yet, but are planning a European trip when Blythe is 11. Her German should be very good by then; maybe she will have another language as well.</p>
<p>Your sense of introspection is refreshing. It&#8217;s tough to see if my daughter will have that same thoughtfulness. I appreciate what you have to say, and how you say it. Your writing is clear and inviting to read, and what you have to say is worthy of our time. I&#8217;ll write again soon &#8211; take care, and thank you for your time and effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16369</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 04:44:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cranky - You&#039;re right that it&#039;s the unnoticed teachers that do the bulk of the heavy lifting with the greatest number of students. It&#039;s only those students in the right place at the right time who bump into world figures.

Teller and the others were in a life and death struggle with the Soviet Empire. There was supposed to be a Soviet nuclear strike on the USA - it was our munitions and the delivery systems we developed that postponed that day until it failed to arrive - from the Soviets. Our new adversaries have yet to play their final hands.

The US public was put into WWII by those who knew it was important to get the war started before our position was eroded. England and France neglected their military positions and nearly lost all to the Nazis (peace is at hand... right!). A particular High IQ group was so smug in their own confidence they lost much of their membership to the Death Camps because they evidently couldn&#039;t understand that Cattle don&#039;t make contracts with meatpackers (thus the slogan, Never Again!). Interesting history to consider as we watch the Muslims. I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if somebody accidently drops a nuke on Iran before November - many analysts expect it. Perhaps Lil&#039; George&#039;s lower IQ keeps him in the protect and defend range..

So say what you will about Teller and his merry band of Scientists. We aren&#039;t celebrating Japanese &amp; German &amp; Russian national holidays...  Cinco de Mayo, maybe. I found Dr. Teller to be a noteworthy personality. especially as a real old public speaker. And he was a public school teacher until his end.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cranky &#8211; You&#8217;re right that it&#8217;s the unnoticed teachers that do the bulk of the heavy lifting with the greatest number of students. It&#8217;s only those students in the right place at the right time who bump into world figures.</p>
<p>Teller and the others were in a life and death struggle with the Soviet Empire. There was supposed to be a Soviet nuclear strike on the USA &#8211; it was our munitions and the delivery systems we developed that postponed that day until it failed to arrive &#8211; from the Soviets. Our new adversaries have yet to play their final hands.</p>
<p>The US public was put into WWII by those who knew it was important to get the war started before our position was eroded. England and France neglected their military positions and nearly lost all to the Nazis (peace is at hand&#8230; right!). A particular High IQ group was so smug in their own confidence they lost much of their membership to the Death Camps because they evidently couldn&#8217;t understand that Cattle don&#8217;t make contracts with meatpackers (thus the slogan, Never Again!). Interesting history to consider as we watch the Muslims. I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if somebody accidently drops a nuke on Iran before November &#8211; many analysts expect it. Perhaps Lil&#8217; George&#8217;s lower IQ keeps him in the protect and defend range..</p>
<p>So say what you will about Teller and his merry band of Scientists. We aren&#8217;t celebrating Japanese &amp; German &amp; Russian national holidays&#8230;  Cinco de Mayo, maybe. I found Dr. Teller to be a noteworthy personality. especially as a real old public speaker. And he was a public school teacher until his end.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Dutton-Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16368</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Dutton-Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 02:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you for your comment Debora! I&#039;m so excited when people ask me things. And I actually have a lot to say about what things have helped me throughout the years.

First and foremost I really appreciate my parents, and they have helped me so much over the years. Recently, as I look at what values I hold dearest in my life, I have realized the role my parents played in that. They always encouraged me to question the powers that be. They always told me how important my studies would come to be later in life. But most of all they never forced anything on me. I&#039;ve always had rules and chores, and curfews, but they are very relaxed about letting me do what I need to do and letting me believe what I want to. They&#039;ve encouraged me to travel and be all that I can be. So I really encourage you to give your daughter freedom but let her know she has a very strong support system when she needs it. If kids are openly given that freedom, they are less likely to abuse it. And this has helped me in school and in life.

Secondly, I really found a great group of friends in high school that shared my values, and were interested in the same things as me. They&#039;ve all made high school much much more enjoyable, and the day-to-day stuff like testing is much easier with those friends to lean on. I would encourage your daughter to seek these people out by joining clubs in school (later on) and trying interesting activities outside of school. For me it was three things: a youth group through my church, the Building with Books Club, and the Global Awareness In Action Club. I continue to play a role in each of these and thats where I really found the people I belonged with.

The last advice I would give is to find that one thing you really love and pursue it when school gets boring. Stuff like hiking, biking, sports, photography, painting, and writing can be great outlets for frustration one may have with school or the world in general. So as a parent, I encourage you to buy your daughter a camera, or a bike for her birthday and find out what it is she loves. For me it was painting.

So I hope that helps in any way!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comment Debora! I&#8217;m so excited when people ask me things. And I actually have a lot to say about what things have helped me throughout the years.</p>
<p>First and foremost I really appreciate my parents, and they have helped me so much over the years. Recently, as I look at what values I hold dearest in my life, I have realized the role my parents played in that. They always encouraged me to question the powers that be. They always told me how important my studies would come to be later in life. But most of all they never forced anything on me. I&#8217;ve always had rules and chores, and curfews, but they are very relaxed about letting me do what I need to do and letting me believe what I want to. They&#8217;ve encouraged me to travel and be all that I can be. So I really encourage you to give your daughter freedom but let her know she has a very strong support system when she needs it. If kids are openly given that freedom, they are less likely to abuse it. And this has helped me in school and in life.</p>
<p>Secondly, I really found a great group of friends in high school that shared my values, and were interested in the same things as me. They&#8217;ve all made high school much much more enjoyable, and the day-to-day stuff like testing is much easier with those friends to lean on. I would encourage your daughter to seek these people out by joining clubs in school (later on) and trying interesting activities outside of school. For me it was three things: a youth group through my church, the Building with Books Club, and the Global Awareness In Action Club. I continue to play a role in each of these and thats where I really found the people I belonged with.</p>
<p>The last advice I would give is to find that one thing you really love and pursue it when school gets boring. Stuff like hiking, biking, sports, photography, painting, and writing can be great outlets for frustration one may have with school or the world in general. So as a parent, I encourage you to buy your daughter a camera, or a bike for her birthday and find out what it is she loves. For me it was painting.</p>
<p>So I hope that helps in any way!</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16367</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 22:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Edward Teller, R.I.P.

I shouldn&#039;t talk ill of the dead. I&#039;m glad to hear he was doing good things for the &quot;yuf.&quot; I only know him as, a) The creator of the H-Bomb, b)The major proponent of spending billions on Star Wars. Sad to say, neither really made me feel any warm and fuzzies for the guy.

I will say this: There is almost no comparison between working with highly-motivated, extremely smart kids who LIKE THE SUBJECT THEY ARE LEARNING ABOUT, and teaching anybody else. I get kids who love talking politics or fiction and they are just a joy for me, even as their math teacher finds them exhausting. Meanwhile, I had a kid last year who was already making a living building robots for Arctic explorer scientists and he HATED my English class -- I&#039;m sure his science teachers had a very different impression of him than his humanities teachers.

In other words, if Teller was getting la creme de la creme, it might have been keeping him young . . . while trying to get 35 low-track 10th graders to appreciate the intricacies of the French Revolution can make one OLD in a hurry.

It&#039;s the same in college: Getting 15 interested grad students in a seminar is world&#039;s apart from teaching remedial Freshman comp classes year after year to kids just trying to get their general ed requirements out of the way. What it takes to teach is over-generalized.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward Teller, R.I.P.</p>
<p>I shouldn&#8217;t talk ill of the dead. I&#8217;m glad to hear he was doing good things for the &#8220;yuf.&#8221; I only know him as, a) The creator of the H-Bomb, b)The major proponent of spending billions on Star Wars. Sad to say, neither really made me feel any warm and fuzzies for the guy.</p>
<p>I will say this: There is almost no comparison between working with highly-motivated, extremely smart kids who LIKE THE SUBJECT THEY ARE LEARNING ABOUT, and teaching anybody else. I get kids who love talking politics or fiction and they are just a joy for me, even as their math teacher finds them exhausting. Meanwhile, I had a kid last year who was already making a living building robots for Arctic explorer scientists and he HATED my English class &#8212; I&#8217;m sure his science teachers had a very different impression of him than his humanities teachers.</p>
<p>In other words, if Teller was getting la creme de la creme, it might have been keeping him young . . . while trying to get 35 low-track 10th graders to appreciate the intricacies of the French Revolution can make one OLD in a hurry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the same in college: Getting 15 interested grad students in a seminar is world&#8217;s apart from teaching remedial Freshman comp classes year after year to kids just trying to get their general ed requirements out of the way. What it takes to teach is over-generalized.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16366</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 21:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16366</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cranky:  Are we to judge Edward Teller on your observations (during a PSA flight)?  Right.

I may not agree on all his political moves, but there is something about a Nobel Science Prize Winner who lived THAT long with his hand in military, industrial &amp; scientific power worldwide to the very end, that makes you want to keep your own health up. You don&#039;t stay in that game that long without having something worth listening to. It was significant to me that he ran his own (public) High School and College student courses into his 90&#039;s. Were we to all have access to public high school teachers like that...

And I wonder what Admiral Grace Hopper would have been like as a math teacher..  Other people I know had dealings with Admiral Hyman Rickover (in his advanced age while still in office).

I had professional training from a cadre of WWII vets before they retired and died. They were truly impressive people, the greatest generation. And many of them came from the working class - cannery workers, miners etc. The were PUBLIC SCHOOL educated. We won&#039;t see the like of them again. They weren&#039;t what you would call indulgent.

Not a bunch of lefty &quot;education&quot; major sob sisters like those on the scene today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cranky:  Are we to judge Edward Teller on your observations (during a PSA flight)?  Right.</p>
<p>I may not agree on all his political moves, but there is something about a Nobel Science Prize Winner who lived THAT long with his hand in military, industrial &amp; scientific power worldwide to the very end, that makes you want to keep your own health up. You don&#8217;t stay in that game that long without having something worth listening to. It was significant to me that he ran his own (public) High School and College student courses into his 90&#8242;s. Were we to all have access to public high school teachers like that&#8230;</p>
<p>And I wonder what Admiral Grace Hopper would have been like as a math teacher..  Other people I know had dealings with Admiral Hyman Rickover (in his advanced age while still in office).</p>
<p>I had professional training from a cadre of WWII vets before they retired and died. They were truly impressive people, the greatest generation. And many of them came from the working class &#8211; cannery workers, miners etc. The were PUBLIC SCHOOL educated. We won&#8217;t see the like of them again. They weren&#8217;t what you would call indulgent.</p>
<p>Not a bunch of lefty &#8220;education&#8221; major sob sisters like those on the scene today.</p>
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		<title>By: Debora</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16365</link>
		<dc:creator>Debora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 20:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jesse:

I&#039;m the Mom of an eight year old daughter. In many ways she seems similar to you - she sees the inequity in the world, yet, finds a way to make it better; she is driven and tests reasonably well; she is well-rounded and likes to study, spend time with friends, and enjoys a variety of activities in and out of school.

If you could let me know the things that have helped you, from your parents, the educational system, outside systems, I would love to hear your opinions. Because in the end, after the frenzy of activity, I want my daughter and our family to make choices that will give my daughter the latitude she needs to make decisions that will bring her fulfillment in life. I don’t need her to live for me, or to make up for the opportunities I may have or have not had. I want her to be able to feel secure enough with herself to live her life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesse:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m the Mom of an eight year old daughter. In many ways she seems similar to you &#8211; she sees the inequity in the world, yet, finds a way to make it better; she is driven and tests reasonably well; she is well-rounded and likes to study, spend time with friends, and enjoys a variety of activities in and out of school.</p>
<p>If you could let me know the things that have helped you, from your parents, the educational system, outside systems, I would love to hear your opinions. Because in the end, after the frenzy of activity, I want my daughter and our family to make choices that will give my daughter the latitude she needs to make decisions that will bring her fulfillment in life. I don’t need her to live for me, or to make up for the opportunities I may have or have not had. I want her to be able to feel secure enough with herself to live her life.</p>
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		<title>By: cranky teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/comment-page-1/#comment-16363</link>
		<dc:creator>cranky teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 03:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/02/spring-testing-baffles-students/#comment-16363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I met Edward Teller on PSA once, coming up from LA. He was a real nutjob -- at the time he was selling Reagan on the &quot;Star Wars&quot; project.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I met Edward Teller on PSA once, coming up from LA. He was a real nutjob &#8212; at the time he was selling Reagan on the &#8220;Star Wars&#8221; project.</p>
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