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	<title>Comments on: The safety factor</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: cranky teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16710</link>
		<dc:creator>cranky teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 17:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Foothills mom is raising a very interesting issue: Was this even done by a child?

From the beginning, I was confused that an elementary school kid could knock out another kid&#039;s teeth with a punch -- they are simply not that strong. Tack on the second incident and I become even more skeptical.

When I was in first grade, a kid got his head broken open by a kid swinging his belt, but that was just stupidity. Obviously, though, if kids were using rocks or bricks real damage could be done.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Foothills mom is raising a very interesting issue: Was this even done by a child?</p>
<p>From the beginning, I was confused that an elementary school kid could knock out another kid&#8217;s teeth with a punch &#8212; they are simply not that strong. Tack on the second incident and I become even more skeptical.</p>
<p>When I was in first grade, a kid got his head broken open by a kid swinging his belt, but that was just stupidity. Obviously, though, if kids were using rocks or bricks real damage could be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Sharon</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16721</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 02:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right, Michael. But I would put it this way, &quot;...whether the parents are willing to admit it to others out loud, or not.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, Michael. But I would put it this way, &#8220;&#8230;whether the parents are willing to admit it to others out loud, or not.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16720</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Oh, and yes, &quot;rough&quot; is definitely a code-word for black or Hispanic - whether the parents realize it themselves or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and yes, &#8220;rough&#8221; is definitely a code-word for black or Hispanic &#8211; whether the parents realize it themselves or not.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16719</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/#comment-16719</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Nextset: When I said &quot;easiest,&quot; I didn&#039;t necessarily mean literally. We stretched to get into a different neighborhood, and we&#039;re stretching moreso so our oldest can attend a private middle school. But it was easier to make that choice than it would have been to take a risk with a school with which we had doubts/concerns. In other words, it&#039;s easier to go with a known quantity - a good school or a neighborhood - than take a risk with a borderline school.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nextset: When I said &#8220;easiest,&#8221; I didn&#8217;t necessarily mean literally. We stretched to get into a different neighborhood, and we&#8217;re stretching moreso so our oldest can attend a private middle school. But it was easier to make that choice than it would have been to take a risk with a school with which we had doubts/concerns. In other words, it&#8217;s easier to go with a known quantity &#8211; a good school or a neighborhood &#8211; than take a risk with a borderline school.</p>
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		<title>By: Foothills Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16718</link>
		<dc:creator>Foothills Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/#comment-16718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One more quick bit of information -- the kids that &quot;TheTruthHurts&quot; may be seeing walking single file down the street (if it&#039;s after school) are the 10 to 15 kids who are picked up by City of Oakland staff for an after school program.  They are walked over to the Mosswood Recreation Center by 2 young adults.

The program is relatively low cost and it is likely used by families who live closer to the Mosswood Rec Ctr, which is just outside the Piedmont Avenue school zone.

The 10 to 15 kids who are walked down to Mosswood are all pretty well behaved, from what I&#039;ve observed, and the 2 young adults are really good with them, but it&#039;s hard to imagine that they could somehow be representative of the school as a whole, since 15 is only 4% of the 340 kids at the school!

Thanks for reading my post, and letting me add information to the discussion.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more quick bit of information &#8212; the kids that &#8220;TheTruthHurts&#8221; may be seeing walking single file down the street (if it&#8217;s after school) are the 10 to 15 kids who are picked up by City of Oakland staff for an after school program.  They are walked over to the Mosswood Recreation Center by 2 young adults.</p>
<p>The program is relatively low cost and it is likely used by families who live closer to the Mosswood Rec Ctr, which is just outside the Piedmont Avenue school zone.</p>
<p>The 10 to 15 kids who are walked down to Mosswood are all pretty well behaved, from what I&#8217;ve observed, and the 2 young adults are really good with them, but it&#8217;s hard to imagine that they could somehow be representative of the school as a whole, since 15 is only 4% of the 340 kids at the school!</p>
<p>Thanks for reading my post, and letting me add information to the discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: TheTruthHurts</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16717</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruthHurts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/#comment-16717</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Katy for a little reality on the race issue.  I too was shocked at the racial makeup when I first saw groups of Piedmont students walking single file down a neighborhood street which reflected a very different demographic than the students.  Get the numbers for the District as a whole and I bet they&#039;re just as stark.  Probably moreso in middle school and beyond.  I&#039;m sure safety (or the perception of it) is at the heart of the issue.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Katy for a little reality on the race issue.  I too was shocked at the racial makeup when I first saw groups of Piedmont students walking single file down a neighborhood street which reflected a very different demographic than the students.  Get the numbers for the District as a whole and I bet they&#8217;re just as stark.  Probably moreso in middle school and beyond.  I&#8217;m sure safety (or the perception of it) is at the heart of the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Foothills Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16716</link>
		<dc:creator>Foothills Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[FYI, here&#039;s the complete 2007-2008 ethnic demographic breakdown on Piedmont Avenue Elementary from the CA Dept of Education:

Asian/Pacific Islander/Filipino: 7.3%; Hispanic/Latino:  12.5%;
African American: 64.1%;
White (non-Hispanic): 6.4%;
Multiple Race or no response: 9.9%.

I&#039;m a parent with 2 kids at the school, and I can confirm that it&#039;s an even more diverse school than this data suggests, in each category.  For example, there are Bosnian, Russian and Italian kids in the White category; there are Kenyan, Ethiopian, Eritrean and Nigerian kids in the African American category.  At least 10% of the school is mixed race.  In many ways, it is a United Nations of a school and I&#039;ve actually been very happy with my kids&#039; experience there so far.

Michael (above) says very honestly:  &quot;But to answer your question, if I’d heard of the recent Piedmont incident while considering that school, it would definitely give me pause.&quot;  I completely understand this statement, but I also ask that everyone keep in mind that the Chronicle articles reported the fact that the child was hospitalized (and that thank goodness he is now home and feeling better physically).  The rest of the article&#039;s allegations regarding violent incidents are just that -- allegations.  The sources for those allegations are the Dad and the 7-year-old child who was injured.  We don&#039;t yet know the rest of the story and we haven&#039;t yet heard from any adult eye witnesses.  It was a horrible outcome, but please can we keep in mind that because something is printed in black and white in the newspaper doesn&#039;t mean that the story is complete.  I still believe that all people, and especially all children, should be considered innocent until proven guilty by a thorough examination of all of the facts.

Finally, I&#039;m sure everyone joins me in wishing the child every possible chance for a good recovery -- physical, mental and emotional -- and a fresh start next year.  Hopefully, since he was a transfer into Piedmont Avenue both years, he will go back to his neighborhood school and start again.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, here&#8217;s the complete 2007-2008 ethnic demographic breakdown on Piedmont Avenue Elementary from the CA Dept of Education:</p>
<p>Asian/Pacific Islander/Filipino: 7.3%; Hispanic/Latino:  12.5%;<br />
African American: 64.1%;<br />
White (non-Hispanic): 6.4%;<br />
Multiple Race or no response: 9.9%.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a parent with 2 kids at the school, and I can confirm that it&#8217;s an even more diverse school than this data suggests, in each category.  For example, there are Bosnian, Russian and Italian kids in the White category; there are Kenyan, Ethiopian, Eritrean and Nigerian kids in the African American category.  At least 10% of the school is mixed race.  In many ways, it is a United Nations of a school and I&#8217;ve actually been very happy with my kids&#8217; experience there so far.</p>
<p>Michael (above) says very honestly:  &#8220;But to answer your question, if I’d heard of the recent Piedmont incident while considering that school, it would definitely give me pause.&#8221;  I completely understand this statement, but I also ask that everyone keep in mind that the Chronicle articles reported the fact that the child was hospitalized (and that thank goodness he is now home and feeling better physically).  The rest of the article&#8217;s allegations regarding violent incidents are just that &#8212; allegations.  The sources for those allegations are the Dad and the 7-year-old child who was injured.  We don&#8217;t yet know the rest of the story and we haven&#8217;t yet heard from any adult eye witnesses.  It was a horrible outcome, but please can we keep in mind that because something is printed in black and white in the newspaper doesn&#8217;t mean that the story is complete.  I still believe that all people, and especially all children, should be considered innocent until proven guilty by a thorough examination of all of the facts.</p>
<p>Finally, I&#8217;m sure everyone joins me in wishing the child every possible chance for a good recovery &#8212; physical, mental and emotional &#8212; and a fresh start next year.  Hopefully, since he was a transfer into Piedmont Avenue both years, he will go back to his neighborhood school and start again.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16715</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Speaking of perception, while I was at Redwood Park this morning, I briefly overheard two power-walkers talking about the Piedmont Avenue incident.

One of the women said something about the elementary school that I didn&#039;t hear, to which her friend responded: &quot;It&#039;s always looked rough.&quot;

That&#039;s not the first time I&#039;ve heard schools described that way by those who, presumably, haven&#039;t stepped foot inside. How does an elementary school &quot;look rough&quot; to the casual passer-by? I&#039;d be surprised if the woman&#039;s impression was formed by the physical condition of the building or grounds. Today, anyway, they looked clean and tidy, with a big grassy field and flowering bushes.

Considering the school&#039;s racial make-up (roughly two-thirds African-American, just 6 percent white), what could she have been referring to besides race?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of perception, while I was at Redwood Park this morning, I briefly overheard two power-walkers talking about the Piedmont Avenue incident.</p>
<p>One of the women said something about the elementary school that I didn&#8217;t hear, to which her friend responded: &#8220;It&#8217;s always looked rough.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s not the first time I&#8217;ve heard schools described that way by those who, presumably, haven&#8217;t stepped foot inside. How does an elementary school &#8220;look rough&#8221; to the casual passer-by? I&#8217;d be surprised if the woman&#8217;s impression was formed by the physical condition of the building or grounds. Today, anyway, they looked clean and tidy, with a big grassy field and flowering bushes.</p>
<p>Considering the school&#8217;s racial make-up (roughly two-thirds African-American, just 6 percent white), what could she have been referring to besides race?</p>
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		<title>By: Realist</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16714</link>
		<dc:creator>Realist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/#comment-16714</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nexset:  I know many public school kids that are great kids, and would welcome them as role models, babysitters or employees.  They work hard, are responsible, and really have it together.  It is unfair to generalize and say &quot;don&#039;t want them to become like the public school kids&quot;.

Believe me, I know a handful of private school kids (Catholic schools included!) that I wouldn&#039;t want my kids to be like either!  There is a mix of both kinds of students at private and public schools.  However, since public schools can&#039;t pick and choose students, and are required to educate everyone, they have more kids with issues they have to tend to.  That doesn&#039;t mean that ALL children in public schools are thugs or dysfunctional.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nexset:  I know many public school kids that are great kids, and would welcome them as role models, babysitters or employees.  They work hard, are responsible, and really have it together.  It is unfair to generalize and say &#8220;don&#8217;t want them to become like the public school kids&#8221;.</p>
<p>Believe me, I know a handful of private school kids (Catholic schools included!) that I wouldn&#8217;t want my kids to be like either!  There is a mix of both kinds of students at private and public schools.  However, since public schools can&#8217;t pick and choose students, and are required to educate everyone, they have more kids with issues they have to tend to.  That doesn&#8217;t mean that ALL children in public schools are thugs or dysfunctional.</p>
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		<title>By: Sue</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2008/04/29/the-safety-factor/comment-page-1/#comment-16713</link>
		<dc:creator>Sue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Maybe it&#039;s not easy for the majority of Oakland families to change schools. I don&#039;t know.  We had no trouble pulling out younger son out of our neighborhood school in kindergarten, and transfering him to Munck where he was safe.  He&#039;s in 5th grade at Munck this year.

We bought our house based on the statistics for that neighborhood school, too, so it was a really big disappointment when we found the reality didn&#039;t match the stats.

But maybe our tranfer experience was anomalous.  Maybe it&#039;s normally really difficult to transfer a kid, and we just happened to be lucky - in the right place, at the right time, and didn&#039;t mess it up.  Could be.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe it&#8217;s not easy for the majority of Oakland families to change schools. I don&#8217;t know.  We had no trouble pulling out younger son out of our neighborhood school in kindergarten, and transfering him to Munck where he was safe.  He&#8217;s in 5th grade at Munck this year.</p>
<p>We bought our house based on the statistics for that neighborhood school, too, so it was a really big disappointment when we found the reality didn&#8217;t match the stats.</p>
<p>But maybe our tranfer experience was anomalous.  Maybe it&#8217;s normally really difficult to transfer a kid, and we just happened to be lucky &#8211; in the right place, at the right time, and didn&#8217;t mess it up.  Could be.</p>
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