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	<title>Comments on: School dropouts and outrage (or lack thereof)</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21226</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 14:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My take on what we are talking about is that the current masters of the public school system have very carefully decided to crash the schools. They do not intend to do well by their students. They do not really think the lower class is teachable anyway - they never did. The true mission of the urban public schools is to provide fat payroll for certain people (not the teachers) and pacify the lower classes and any middle class wanna-bes who stick around - long enough to get rid of them.  If too many of them stick around and become annoying it&#039;s really easy to get the truancy and drop out rates up (like imposing college prep requirements).

You are presumed to intend the logical results of your actions. The way the urban public schools are run, for example OUSD, are intended to produce the results they do. The plan is to produce unemployable, untrained, uneducated and relatively unhousebroken &quot;workers&quot; for the cities.

The Mission of the Charters and the Private Schools is a different one. This can be seen in even the smaller aspects of how they operate.

And the education pinnacle you have the Service Academies and their feeder schools. Look at the way they operate, now look what is expected of their students (upon graduation and in their working careers). And I bet the bathrooms are cleaner also.

Nothing is going to change until we have people in charge who think the Black, Brown or whatever kids (who are just about the only students left in the urban schools) have some value to society. And I&#039;m not looking for that to happen in my lifetime because of the Brave New World thing. The US is openly splitting into a Caste society with sharply reduced social mobility. That is not an accident of public policy and was predicted over 20 years ago.

As part of that we refuse to establish English as the official language - actually we flood the country with 3rd worlders then get enough accomodations for them to avoid assimilation. That really helps delineate Caste. The children of the 3rd worlders are kept in their place by language and ditto for the urban blacks. Just for reinforcement we set up different deportment norms including that little bit about lying all the time as a coping mechanism.  That takes care of occupational segregation and much more. Between language and deportment even similar IQs must live segregated lives down through the generations.

Any intercourse between the Castes becomes so risky it&#039;s avoided altogether (figuratively &amp; literally). An even stronger segregation system than 100 years ago..  just as strong as Calcutta.

And it&#039;s all engendered by the public schools post &quot;The Great Society&quot; legislation and court decisions.

Brave New World.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My take on what we are talking about is that the current masters of the public school system have very carefully decided to crash the schools. They do not intend to do well by their students. They do not really think the lower class is teachable anyway &#8211; they never did. The true mission of the urban public schools is to provide fat payroll for certain people (not the teachers) and pacify the lower classes and any middle class wanna-bes who stick around &#8211; long enough to get rid of them.  If too many of them stick around and become annoying it&#8217;s really easy to get the truancy and drop out rates up (like imposing college prep requirements).</p>
<p>You are presumed to intend the logical results of your actions. The way the urban public schools are run, for example OUSD, are intended to produce the results they do. The plan is to produce unemployable, untrained, uneducated and relatively unhousebroken &#8220;workers&#8221; for the cities.</p>
<p>The Mission of the Charters and the Private Schools is a different one. This can be seen in even the smaller aspects of how they operate.</p>
<p>And the education pinnacle you have the Service Academies and their feeder schools. Look at the way they operate, now look what is expected of their students (upon graduation and in their working careers). And I bet the bathrooms are cleaner also.</p>
<p>Nothing is going to change until we have people in charge who think the Black, Brown or whatever kids (who are just about the only students left in the urban schools) have some value to society. And I&#8217;m not looking for that to happen in my lifetime because of the Brave New World thing. The US is openly splitting into a Caste society with sharply reduced social mobility. That is not an accident of public policy and was predicted over 20 years ago.</p>
<p>As part of that we refuse to establish English as the official language &#8211; actually we flood the country with 3rd worlders then get enough accomodations for them to avoid assimilation. That really helps delineate Caste. The children of the 3rd worlders are kept in their place by language and ditto for the urban blacks. Just for reinforcement we set up different deportment norms including that little bit about lying all the time as a coping mechanism.  That takes care of occupational segregation and much more. Between language and deportment even similar IQs must live segregated lives down through the generations.</p>
<p>Any intercourse between the Castes becomes so risky it&#8217;s avoided altogether (figuratively &amp; literally). An even stronger segregation system than 100 years ago..  just as strong as Calcutta.</p>
<p>And it&#8217;s all engendered by the public schools post &#8220;The Great Society&#8221; legislation and court decisions.</p>
<p>Brave New World.</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21225</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21225</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Until the middle schools stop passing kids on to high school who still don&#039;t know their multiplication tables up to 12, can&#039;t read at least at 7th grade level, and who have GPAs below 2.0, parents who can afford it and whose kids have been paying attention in school, will continue to send their kids to private schools. I am in that situation and would love to have a school like Lowell. I know that almost all my friends who scrimp and save to send their kids to private high schools would send their children to an academically oriented high school that requires an entrance exam and requires their students to follow the rules.
 But that is not going to happen in Oakland because it is perceived as elitist and white, just as tracking was.
Just think if a child had a cell phone out in class and without exception his/her parent had to come to school to claim it, and the second time the child had to attend Saturday school where he would do academics all day or face the consequences of being suspended or kicked out. Kids will tell you they can&#039;t be kept in your class after school because they have to take the bus home. Well, if their parents had to come get them because they had broken a rule, maybe they would stop breaking the rules. Schools have got to stop worrying about the students&#039; &quot;self-esteem&quot; and take control back from the kids.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until the middle schools stop passing kids on to high school who still don&#8217;t know their multiplication tables up to 12, can&#8217;t read at least at 7th grade level, and who have GPAs below 2.0, parents who can afford it and whose kids have been paying attention in school, will continue to send their kids to private schools. I am in that situation and would love to have a school like Lowell. I know that almost all my friends who scrimp and save to send their kids to private high schools would send their children to an academically oriented high school that requires an entrance exam and requires their students to follow the rules.<br />
 But that is not going to happen in Oakland because it is perceived as elitist and white, just as tracking was.<br />
Just think if a child had a cell phone out in class and without exception his/her parent had to come to school to claim it, and the second time the child had to attend Saturday school where he would do academics all day or face the consequences of being suspended or kicked out. Kids will tell you they can&#8217;t be kept in your class after school because they have to take the bus home. Well, if their parents had to come get them because they had broken a rule, maybe they would stop breaking the rules. Schools have got to stop worrying about the students&#8217; &#8220;self-esteem&#8221; and take control back from the kids.</p>
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		<title>By: oak261</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21224</link>
		<dc:creator>oak261</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 17:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nextset:
Re your post 24, 25: The link to Dunbar was very interesting.  Do you agree that Dunbar and other selective high schools boast terrific academic and life outcomes for their alum, because they were/are selective?  I would include Lowell, Michele Obama&#039;s high school in Chicago, and the president&#039;s high school in Hawaii in the discussion.

Charters can do the same, if they are selective about who enrolls, or who they keep.

OUSD cannot reasonably expect to reverse the exodus of 1/3 of all 9th grade age kids to private schools and thru the tunnel if the mantra is a naive &quot;one size fits all so we can&#039;t be accused of being unfair&quot; policy.  It is not in the interest of the kids, not in the interest of the nation in the global competition.  Some say that the high achievers will do well and take care of themselves.  They will, but at the expense of a viable public education system for everyone.  OUSD and CDE will have to get over their hangups about tracking, for example, in order to challenge students in all subject areas before they see their first AP exam in 10th grade.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextset:<br />
Re your post 24, 25: The link to Dunbar was very interesting.  Do you agree that Dunbar and other selective high schools boast terrific academic and life outcomes for their alum, because they were/are selective?  I would include Lowell, Michele Obama&#8217;s high school in Chicago, and the president&#8217;s high school in Hawaii in the discussion.</p>
<p>Charters can do the same, if they are selective about who enrolls, or who they keep.</p>
<p>OUSD cannot reasonably expect to reverse the exodus of 1/3 of all 9th grade age kids to private schools and thru the tunnel if the mantra is a naive &#8220;one size fits all so we can&#8217;t be accused of being unfair&#8221; policy.  It is not in the interest of the kids, not in the interest of the nation in the global competition.  Some say that the high achievers will do well and take care of themselves.  They will, but at the expense of a viable public education system for everyone.  OUSD and CDE will have to get over their hangups about tracking, for example, in order to challenge students in all subject areas before they see their first AP exam in 10th grade.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21223</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21223</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the concept of training the groups at different campuses, compare the conditions and coursework at the service academies such as West Point and the Air Force Academy at Colorado to Boot Camp for enlisted men/women. In both cases the entering class are largely 18 or 19 year olds. But the new recruits have been tested and separated by cognitive skill levels - IQ&#039;s actually. What would happen if you tried to send typical enlisted men to the academy? Now what would happen if you tried to run a boot camp like a service academy? Are the enlisted men being cheated or are the academy cadets being privileged? No to both. Is the different racial mix in these places a problem? Or is it just the way the chips fell?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the concept of training the groups at different campuses, compare the conditions and coursework at the service academies such as West Point and the Air Force Academy at Colorado to Boot Camp for enlisted men/women. In both cases the entering class are largely 18 or 19 year olds. But the new recruits have been tested and separated by cognitive skill levels &#8211; IQ&#8217;s actually. What would happen if you tried to send typical enlisted men to the academy? Now what would happen if you tried to run a boot camp like a service academy? Are the enlisted men being cheated or are the academy cadets being privileged? No to both. Is the different racial mix in these places a problem? Or is it just the way the chips fell?</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21222</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21222</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harlemmoon:  Your post reminds me of an issue in law school class where the concept of conspiracy was covered. Do we require conspirators to actually meet and sign a formal contract regarding their goal, or is it enough that people who never met each other merely act in concert?

There is no other reasonable conclusion here that the urban school educrats are embarked on a course of action that will block educational and socioeconomical progress for the minority students - and the courts have signed off on it also (ie the inane &quot;free speech&quot; rulings supporting indiscipline such as the T Shirts and dress issues).  The end result is a public school for the proletariat unlike any private school for the ruling classes. A failure factory.

No I don&#039;t belive this is just an accident.  These grown adults know what has always worked before (conditions used at Dunbar, etc) and they have run to the other side of the boat.

Is this oppression of blacks?  Hell no. It&#039;s just giving the colored folks what they want.  It&#039;s giving them the rope. It&#039;s pacification. If you care about someone you are willing to tell them no, to make them unhappy for their own good. One cartoon put it this way:  &quot;Hurt them with love...&quot;  Funny how life works sometime.

And the educrats see this dropout syndrome as &quot;They dropped out&quot;  not that &quot;We ran them out of the schools&quot;. If you create a school program calculated to match the student (ie they are expected to be able to do the work) and the program is meaningful and has perceived value you are not going to have all these dropouts.

Trying to teach algebra 2 to people with IQs of 80 doesn&#039;t qualify. Ditto lab sciences, much of history and all the college prep work.  The lower IQs think in concrete terms and need concrete coursework. Abstract work must be optional and tied to current needs. Physicality and working with hands must be emphasized. You are not going to have the higher dropout rates for the proles with such a program. You can still work in the discipline (such as is seen in a football program) and basic reading and math. Some of the students can start more advanced work once they have the confidence of qualifying with the basics.  Meanwhile the college bound are doing their work at another campus and you keep the two groups apart except for activities where they can have common ground in order to delay class conflicts until maturity sets in.

All this went out the window with integration where these matters became a racial issue.  The fantasy that all men were created equal led to the forced combining of the prole programs with the academic programs with the academics telling everyone that their way is the only way. The proles have been in free fall ever since. You add in the open borders (the immigrant groups all have higher avg IQs than our blacks) and the destruction of manufacturing and blue collar jobs in the USA and you have: this mess. And the Brave New World.

The Bell Curve and related research is important to illuminate the existance of the groups of concrete vs abstract intellects (of all races) and their frequencies in the populations. No Child Left Behind is created to demonstrate this also - it&#039;s the biggest racial data collection scheme in history. Sooner or later the Educrats are going to have to deal with the stats and change the distructive policy we live under.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harlemmoon:  Your post reminds me of an issue in law school class where the concept of conspiracy was covered. Do we require conspirators to actually meet and sign a formal contract regarding their goal, or is it enough that people who never met each other merely act in concert?</p>
<p>There is no other reasonable conclusion here that the urban school educrats are embarked on a course of action that will block educational and socioeconomical progress for the minority students &#8211; and the courts have signed off on it also (ie the inane &#8220;free speech&#8221; rulings supporting indiscipline such as the T Shirts and dress issues).  The end result is a public school for the proletariat unlike any private school for the ruling classes. A failure factory.</p>
<p>No I don&#8217;t belive this is just an accident.  These grown adults know what has always worked before (conditions used at Dunbar, etc) and they have run to the other side of the boat.</p>
<p>Is this oppression of blacks?  Hell no. It&#8217;s just giving the colored folks what they want.  It&#8217;s giving them the rope. It&#8217;s pacification. If you care about someone you are willing to tell them no, to make them unhappy for their own good. One cartoon put it this way:  &#8220;Hurt them with love&#8230;&#8221;  Funny how life works sometime.</p>
<p>And the educrats see this dropout syndrome as &#8220;They dropped out&#8221;  not that &#8220;We ran them out of the schools&#8221;. If you create a school program calculated to match the student (ie they are expected to be able to do the work) and the program is meaningful and has perceived value you are not going to have all these dropouts.</p>
<p>Trying to teach algebra 2 to people with IQs of 80 doesn&#8217;t qualify. Ditto lab sciences, much of history and all the college prep work.  The lower IQs think in concrete terms and need concrete coursework. Abstract work must be optional and tied to current needs. Physicality and working with hands must be emphasized. You are not going to have the higher dropout rates for the proles with such a program. You can still work in the discipline (such as is seen in a football program) and basic reading and math. Some of the students can start more advanced work once they have the confidence of qualifying with the basics.  Meanwhile the college bound are doing their work at another campus and you keep the two groups apart except for activities where they can have common ground in order to delay class conflicts until maturity sets in.</p>
<p>All this went out the window with integration where these matters became a racial issue.  The fantasy that all men were created equal led to the forced combining of the prole programs with the academic programs with the academics telling everyone that their way is the only way. The proles have been in free fall ever since. You add in the open borders (the immigrant groups all have higher avg IQs than our blacks) and the destruction of manufacturing and blue collar jobs in the USA and you have: this mess. And the Brave New World.</p>
<p>The Bell Curve and related research is important to illuminate the existance of the groups of concrete vs abstract intellects (of all races) and their frequencies in the populations. No Child Left Behind is created to demonstrate this also &#8211; it&#8217;s the biggest racial data collection scheme in history. Sooner or later the Educrats are going to have to deal with the stats and change the distructive policy we live under.</p>
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		<title>By: harlemmoon</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21221</link>
		<dc:creator>harlemmoon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21221</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nextset, what you&#039;re implying sounds awfully close to a conspiracy to continue the devastating oppression of black and brown peoples.
That educators intentionally have set out to do precisely the opposite of their mission, is quite the claim.
I do, however, agree that to look at OUSD is to see a stark, shameful example of devalued children and staff.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextset, what you&#8217;re implying sounds awfully close to a conspiracy to continue the devastating oppression of black and brown peoples.<br />
That educators intentionally have set out to do precisely the opposite of their mission, is quite the claim.<br />
I do, however, agree that to look at OUSD is to see a stark, shameful example of devalued children and staff.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21220</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:26:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21220</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_High_School_(Washington,_D.C.)

Here&#039;s the correct link to the article on Dunbar High School.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_High_School_(Washington,_D.C" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_High_School_(Washington,_D.C</a>.)</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the correct link to the article on Dunbar High School.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21219</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21219</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder what the gist of #22 was.... Katy doesn&#039;t often have to act.

Are there people who think the problems are a black thing as opposed to OUSD not taking back control? The segregated black school systems - such as Dunbar in 1940&#039;s Washington DC ( see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_High_School_(Washington,_D.C.  )and other such schools whose teachers I met and read about (they&#039;re all dead now) never had the problems of the contemporary black schools. Interesting how things went downhill after desegregation.

Anyway, from the demographics I read of we won&#039;t have the blacks to kick around much longer. Their ratio is going to be falling. And I don&#039;t believe it matters what the demographics are if OUSD still doesn&#039;t get control of whatever students are on hand and run the programs in a way that promotes real education and accomplishment. OUSD can keep things just as messy with the new Hispanic/Mexican majority if the schools continue on this course.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what the gist of #22 was&#8230;. Katy doesn&#8217;t often have to act.</p>
<p>Are there people who think the problems are a black thing as opposed to OUSD not taking back control? The segregated black school systems &#8211; such as Dunbar in 1940&#8242;s Washington DC ( see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_High_School_(Washington,_D.C" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar_High_School_(Washington,_D.C</a>.  )and other such schools whose teachers I met and read about (they&#8217;re all dead now) never had the problems of the contemporary black schools. Interesting how things went downhill after desegregation.</p>
<p>Anyway, from the demographics I read of we won&#8217;t have the blacks to kick around much longer. Their ratio is going to be falling. And I don&#8217;t believe it matters what the demographics are if OUSD still doesn&#8217;t get control of whatever students are on hand and run the programs in a way that promotes real education and accomplishment. OUSD can keep things just as messy with the new Hispanic/Mexican majority if the schools continue on this course.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21218</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21218</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harlemmoon:  The city&#039;s supposed educators haven&#039;t failed, they&#039;ve accomplished exactly what they set out to do.

They never intended to educate the ghetto.

What we are seeing is not an accident. The plan of the OUSD elites (&quot;administrator/educators&quot;) is to produce unemployable, dependent people who will have a harsh life, and to get paid handsomely in the process.

Follow my logic. Dirty bathrooms, mistreated workers, shabby conditions and supplies, Indiscipline and disorder, unsafe conditions... does any of this look like the children were valued?

You see more tender loving care of the inmates in California&#039;s Sexually Violent Predator program at Coalinga (check the website!). Compare the spotless bathrooms and public spaces, (very) well paid staff, lack of assaults and safety problems, college classes, and probably better food in their restaurant &amp; dining rooms.

Some people are more equal than others in this Brave New World. Sometimes the pats on the back do hold you back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harlemmoon:  The city&#8217;s supposed educators haven&#8217;t failed, they&#8217;ve accomplished exactly what they set out to do.</p>
<p>They never intended to educate the ghetto.</p>
<p>What we are seeing is not an accident. The plan of the OUSD elites (&#8220;administrator/educators&#8221;) is to produce unemployable, dependent people who will have a harsh life, and to get paid handsomely in the process.</p>
<p>Follow my logic. Dirty bathrooms, mistreated workers, shabby conditions and supplies, Indiscipline and disorder, unsafe conditions&#8230; does any of this look like the children were valued?</p>
<p>You see more tender loving care of the inmates in California&#8217;s Sexually Violent Predator program at Coalinga (check the website!). Compare the spotless bathrooms and public spaces, (very) well paid staff, lack of assaults and safety problems, college classes, and probably better food in their restaurant &amp; dining rooms.</p>
<p>Some people are more equal than others in this Brave New World. Sometimes the pats on the back do hold you back.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/06/15/school-dropouts-and-outrage/comment-page-1/#comment-21217</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Jun 2009 21:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5432#comment-21217</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Though loath to censor comments, I have deleted one about black students that in my opinion crossed the line (and then some) into hate speech.

RSS subscribers might have received it in their inboxes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though loath to censor comments, I have deleted one about black students that in my opinion crossed the line (and then some) into hate speech.</p>
<p>RSS subscribers might have received it in their inboxes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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