<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Ben Chavis&#8217;s new book: &#8220;Crazy like a fox&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 21:57:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Dougherty</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-58669</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Dougherty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-58669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[He explains that statistical disparity in the book.  I don&#039;t have it in front of me at the moment, but it has something to do with how they respond to certain questions about their ethnicity.  In fact at one point he mentions that his Asian students were his worst...probably their parents were exasperated and wanted to send them somewhere besides where they were.  A lot of people are of mixed race (heck, look at his last name!) so it really depends on how it&#039;s asked.  I&#039;m in Oklahoma, where a lot of pretty European looking folks claim to have some Native American ancestry, but are not likely to report that on an employment form, for instance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He explains that statistical disparity in the book.  I don&#8217;t have it in front of me at the moment, but it has something to do with how they respond to certain questions about their ethnicity.  In fact at one point he mentions that his Asian students were his worst&#8230;probably their parents were exasperated and wanted to send them somewhere besides where they were.  A lot of people are of mixed race (heck, look at his last name!) so it really depends on how it&#8217;s asked.  I&#8217;m in Oklahoma, where a lot of pretty European looking folks claim to have some Native American ancestry, but are not likely to report that on an employment form, for instance.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24535</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:39:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thought about the last post over lunch and needed to add something.  There are black candidates for professional career ladders. You have the Immigrants such as Nigerians and Ethiopians, or West Indian Blacks (tend to have intact family structure and be more competitive). And you have noticable candidates who are 2nd or 3rd generation professionals (typically private schooled). These groups are better able to make the professional ladder.  The far larger group I&#039;m worried about are the public school blacks. People don&#039;t have the amount of energy required to make these people over, trying to undo the years of damage from urban public school. The problems are too pervasive. They shouldn&#039;t be. They shouldn&#039;t be so clueless, inflexible and resistant to change to meet a goal. Too bad they weren&#039;t schooled by Chavis.

And I see it even in new generation extended family members - the very few in public schools. I know they will not keep up with the private school relatives, not even want to. They are all sorting, you see it in their friends, their interests &amp; their politics.

Crazy Like A Fox doesn&#039;t bother me at all. I think he is what kids need, warts and all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thought about the last post over lunch and needed to add something.  There are black candidates for professional career ladders. You have the Immigrants such as Nigerians and Ethiopians, or West Indian Blacks (tend to have intact family structure and be more competitive). And you have noticable candidates who are 2nd or 3rd generation professionals (typically private schooled). These groups are better able to make the professional ladder.  The far larger group I&#8217;m worried about are the public school blacks. People don&#8217;t have the amount of energy required to make these people over, trying to undo the years of damage from urban public school. The problems are too pervasive. They shouldn&#8217;t be. They shouldn&#8217;t be so clueless, inflexible and resistant to change to meet a goal. Too bad they weren&#8217;t schooled by Chavis.</p>
<p>And I see it even in new generation extended family members &#8211; the very few in public schools. I know they will not keep up with the private school relatives, not even want to. They are all sorting, you see it in their friends, their interests &amp; their politics.</p>
<p>Crazy Like A Fox doesn&#8217;t bother me at all. I think he is what kids need, warts and all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24525</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24525</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m going to have to get this book.  One question I want answered is why Chavis cares about the ghetto students enough to bother to work with them, work in public education, and fight this battle to make these kids into competitors who are going to be nobody&#039;s victims? You don&#039;t see much of this anymore.  Certainly I didn&#039;t stay in education - I saw public education as being hopeless and worse, low paying. Plus I had a law degree and was waiting on bar passage.

I have always believed that tactics such as Chavis&#039; would work and would produce world-beaters from among the public school students.  But it&#039;s a lot of trouble for no money. Where is his dedication coming from?

For example, where did Mimi Silbert of Delancey Street get the moxie to spend her life turning junkies into presentable job applicants? Ever try to manage a junkie?

I did see this kind of dedication in the early &#039;60s from the Catholic Nuns. They didn&#039;t mind getting an upper class student but they really got off on fixing a (relatively) lower class student and making them over. And now the nuns are extinct.

I have worked with a number of law clerks.  I have found it is not feasible to fix/work with a lower class candidate. If anything you end up putting them in a position to get in real trouble. I have taken immigrants (Indian) from college intern to lawyer and watched that person have a career I would have liked to have. The family was once (very) poor. In one generation they are solidly professional class. They laugh at how easy the USA is to make it in.  The Ethiopians I know say the same thing (poverty to med school, etc).

Racist my behind.

The reason the black candidates typically have the problems they do is because they don&#039;t want to change and are resistant to authority (telling them what they are to do). Even in the face of immediate bad consequences they refuse to change even on cosmetic things. I see this as one of the consequences to going to bad schools where they are taught indiscipline - which did not happen prior to the Great Society nonsense of the early 1960s. Chavis sounds old school, and that worked.

Speaking of cosmetic things, yesterday in court I noticed a darker skinned black girl in her early 20s (yes I used that word - girl).  She has a number of facial piercings.  You shouldn&#039;t do piercings at all, especially when you tend to keloid scarring. She thought it would be good to put metal into through face above the lip. Now she has a disfiguring tumour like growth where the piercing was. Probably has no health insurance to deal with it either. She probably has a pierced tongue also. Wonder about her employment prospects?

Can&#039;t fix stupid. Darker skins are associated with keloid formation. Gotta be careful when you consider cutting on them. Maybe these differences weren&#039;t taught in her high school biology/health classes. She probably wasn&#039;t taught that prospective employers use such cues as poor hygene/self care as a reason to deselect such candidates for employment or association.

Minority kids need people like Chavis much more than Ken and Barbie do.

Brave New World.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to have to get this book.  One question I want answered is why Chavis cares about the ghetto students enough to bother to work with them, work in public education, and fight this battle to make these kids into competitors who are going to be nobody&#8217;s victims? You don&#8217;t see much of this anymore.  Certainly I didn&#8217;t stay in education &#8211; I saw public education as being hopeless and worse, low paying. Plus I had a law degree and was waiting on bar passage.</p>
<p>I have always believed that tactics such as Chavis&#8217; would work and would produce world-beaters from among the public school students.  But it&#8217;s a lot of trouble for no money. Where is his dedication coming from?</p>
<p>For example, where did Mimi Silbert of Delancey Street get the moxie to spend her life turning junkies into presentable job applicants? Ever try to manage a junkie?</p>
<p>I did see this kind of dedication in the early &#8217;60s from the Catholic Nuns. They didn&#8217;t mind getting an upper class student but they really got off on fixing a (relatively) lower class student and making them over. And now the nuns are extinct.</p>
<p>I have worked with a number of law clerks.  I have found it is not feasible to fix/work with a lower class candidate. If anything you end up putting them in a position to get in real trouble. I have taken immigrants (Indian) from college intern to lawyer and watched that person have a career I would have liked to have. The family was once (very) poor. In one generation they are solidly professional class. They laugh at how easy the USA is to make it in.  The Ethiopians I know say the same thing (poverty to med school, etc).</p>
<p>Racist my behind.</p>
<p>The reason the black candidates typically have the problems they do is because they don&#8217;t want to change and are resistant to authority (telling them what they are to do). Even in the face of immediate bad consequences they refuse to change even on cosmetic things. I see this as one of the consequences to going to bad schools where they are taught indiscipline &#8211; which did not happen prior to the Great Society nonsense of the early 1960s. Chavis sounds old school, and that worked.</p>
<p>Speaking of cosmetic things, yesterday in court I noticed a darker skinned black girl in her early 20s (yes I used that word &#8211; girl).  She has a number of facial piercings.  You shouldn&#8217;t do piercings at all, especially when you tend to keloid scarring. She thought it would be good to put metal into through face above the lip. Now she has a disfiguring tumour like growth where the piercing was. Probably has no health insurance to deal with it either. She probably has a pierced tongue also. Wonder about her employment prospects?</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t fix stupid. Darker skins are associated with keloid formation. Gotta be careful when you consider cutting on them. Maybe these differences weren&#8217;t taught in her high school biology/health classes. She probably wasn&#8217;t taught that prospective employers use such cues as poor hygene/self care as a reason to deselect such candidates for employment or association.</p>
<p>Minority kids need people like Chavis much more than Ken and Barbie do.</p>
<p>Brave New World.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24523</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24523</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alfred:  What about Ben Chavis?  What did he say that was so interesting?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alfred:  What about Ben Chavis?  What did he say that was so interesting?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alfred</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24522</link>
		<dc:creator>alfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 09:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24522</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ben Chavis]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben Chavis</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24451</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 20:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24451</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Alfred,  which guy are you complaining about?  It sounds interesting.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alfred,  which guy are you complaining about?  It sounds interesting.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alfred</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24448</link>
		<dc:creator>alfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24448</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[don&#039;t approve my comment and I will post this on the LA times blog and the Sacramento bee...you&#039;ll see...if not bigger...im connected]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>don&#8217;t approve my comment and I will post this on the LA times blog and the Sacramento bee&#8230;you&#8217;ll see&#8230;if not bigger&#8230;im connected</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alfred</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-24447</link>
		<dc:creator>alfred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Mar 2010 15:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-24447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[this guy is a straight out racist...just heard him on KFI in Los Angeles on the Bill Handel show saying that Los Angeles USD needs to get rid of the Mexicans...what is that coming from an educator??? honestly...come on???]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this guy is a straight out racist&#8230;just heard him on KFI in Los Angeles on the Bill Handel show saying that Los Angeles USD needs to get rid of the Mexicans&#8230;what is that coming from an educator??? honestly&#8230;come on???</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-2/#comment-21716</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:14:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-21716</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Booklady: Is experience &quot;racist&quot;?  Are documented physical differences &quot;racist&quot;?  Is everything you don&#039;t like &quot;racist&quot;?

Asians and blacks are at different ends of the spectrum for onset of puberty. Do you agree puberty makes a difference in how well someone works in a classroom?  How do you know why someone is &quot;losing focus&quot;?  Poor Teachers or physiological reasons?

All children can achieve?  That&#039;s a statement.  Are you trying to say all children can achive at the same rate? Really?  Based on what research?

If you believe that people are all the same, maybe you should read medical research first - be sure to note the differences the various races present in everything from diabetes to height to blood type to susceptability to disease and disorders. Is it &quot;racist&quot; to routinely test Asians for Hepatitis while testing blacks for something else?  Or is it just experience and good practice.

Your venom probably has some other cause.  Childhood trauma?

It&#039;s the experience of human history that people are different. Individually and in groups. If that scares you you need to go back to school yourself. Our schoolchildren are better off with educators who are realists and can manage their charges to get the most out of the limited educational time and budgets before the kids are dumped on the world to fend for themselves. We don&#039;t need starry eyed idealists wasting the opportunities the students have.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Booklady: Is experience &#8220;racist&#8221;?  Are documented physical differences &#8220;racist&#8221;?  Is everything you don&#8217;t like &#8220;racist&#8221;?</p>
<p>Asians and blacks are at different ends of the spectrum for onset of puberty. Do you agree puberty makes a difference in how well someone works in a classroom?  How do you know why someone is &#8220;losing focus&#8221;?  Poor Teachers or physiological reasons?</p>
<p>All children can achieve?  That&#8217;s a statement.  Are you trying to say all children can achive at the same rate? Really?  Based on what research?</p>
<p>If you believe that people are all the same, maybe you should read medical research first &#8211; be sure to note the differences the various races present in everything from diabetes to height to blood type to susceptability to disease and disorders. Is it &#8220;racist&#8221; to routinely test Asians for Hepatitis while testing blacks for something else?  Or is it just experience and good practice.</p>
<p>Your venom probably has some other cause.  Childhood trauma?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the experience of human history that people are different. Individually and in groups. If that scares you you need to go back to school yourself. Our schoolchildren are better off with educators who are realists and can manage their charges to get the most out of the limited educational time and budgets before the kids are dumped on the world to fend for themselves. We don&#8217;t need starry eyed idealists wasting the opportunities the students have.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Booklady</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/07/23/ben-chaviss-new-book-crazy-like-a-fox/comment-page-1/#comment-21715</link>
		<dc:creator>Booklady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Sep 2009 01:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=5802#comment-21715</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re: &quot; Taking Chinese students to Blue Ribbon status is alot easier than Latinos and African American students.&quot;

 What a racist statement! All students can achieve and I mean all given the opportunity, excellent teachers, and an administrator who understands instruction. I have taught in a mostly African American school district with students who are exceptionally smart but they lose focus and interest because they have poor teachers who are more concerned about being the Savior versus teaching. In addition, most of the teachers where intimidated by students who knew more than they do about the subject matter they were teaching i.e Mathematics. So please, with the racist crap!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: &#8221; Taking Chinese students to Blue Ribbon status is alot easier than Latinos and African American students.&#8221;</p>
<p> What a racist statement! All students can achieve and I mean all given the opportunity, excellent teachers, and an administrator who understands instruction. I have taught in a mostly African American school district with students who are exceptionally smart but they lose focus and interest because they have poor teachers who are more concerned about being the Savior versus teaching. In addition, most of the teachers where intimidated by students who knew more than they do about the subject matter they were teaching i.e Mathematics. So please, with the racist crap!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using apc
Page Caching using apc
Database Caching 5/19 queries in 0.076 seconds using apc
Object Caching 284/288 objects using apc

Served from: www.ibabuzz.com @ 2013-05-24 21:24:33 -->