Comments on: Should Calif. change its teacher evaluation law?

By: Ms. McLaughlin

Ms. McLaughlin — Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:16:56 +0000

I love our President with all my heart (and appreciate the luxury of being able to say that, btw). But here’s the elephant in the living room regarding state test scores:

A lot of our students don’t give a hell about them.

We’re spending entirely too much time testing these kids, and the tests they DO care about are the exit exams and the SATs.

The STAR tests have no bearing on whether or not the students graduate.

The STAR test scores do not follow them to college.

The STAR tests couldn’t impact their grades if we wanted them to, because the kids take the tests in the spring, and it’s the FOLLOWING year’s teachers who receive the score reports in the fall.

My eyes were first opened to this the year I asked one of my most dedicated students, an outstanding writer, why he’d tested “Far Below Basic.” Guess what?

“Ms. McLaughlin, that test doesn’t mean anything. I just bubbled in zigzags so I could take a nap.”

Some of our brightest students stay home during STAR test week to study for their exams or work on their senior projects. And who can honestly blame them? What reason do THEY have for buying into these tests?

It’s doubtful that most dedicated teachers worry much about being evaluated according to the learning that takes place in their classrooms, but the STAR tests are a poor gauge of that, or of much else, in my opinion.

They’re also a waste of the student’s time, and that makes me angry. Weighing the children over and over again will not make them grow any faster. It does, however, benefit the test publishing companies…and I’ll save my growling about those opportunistic sheisters for another time.

What would benefit everyone else…the students, the teachers, the taxpayers…would be streamlining the testing nightmare. Eliminate the extraneous STAR tests altogether, and gauge everything and everyone on the exit exam scores. Have one test in elementary that the students MUST pass before they move on to middle school. Have a similar test in middle school as a prerequisite for high school. Those two scores, combined with the current high school exit exam, would provide a far more realistic picture of students’ knowledge and capabilities.

As for the parents, I’ve spoken to hundreds of them by telephone, and their concern and support over the years has made me proud to live in Oakland. Many of them just don’t know what their kids are up to in school until we let them know, and there have been countless times when just one call to Mom or Dad or Grandma has caused a 180-degree turnaround in a students’ demeanor and/or academic commitment and/or just leaving the damned CELL PHONE HOME during the school day.

By: Gordon Danning

Gordon Danning — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 17:17:29 +0000

D. Holcomb: I hear what you are saying about challenges faced by teachers, but I strongly disagree that it is impossible, or even particularly difficult, to be a good teacher in Oakland (at least at the HS level). IMHO, teachers make too many excuses; I have a huge amount of power over what happens in my classroom, and if my students are more or less successful than similarly situated students, then most of the credit (or fault) rests with me.
PS: Parents? What parents? I have barely met any in my 12 years of teaching, other than briefly at back-to-school night

By: Ms. J.

Ms. J. — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 16:16:30 +0000

I like that idea, D. Holcomb. For the parents who are involved already it would be honoring your commitment; for the others, it might give them a stake. However it would have to be done very carefully as you note.

Gordon, I’m with you in that I don’t want to be paid more than a novice teacher for a PD–that’s a good point. So maybe salary scale isn’t the right idea. But I don’t think it should be left to teachers to be motivated, that’s all. It should not only be expected us of that we will develop our skills; the situation should facilitate this. As it is, if I want to take a PD during the summer, I’ll pay more for child care (not to mention not getting to be with my kids) than I’ll make at the PD. If we choose to make these sacrifices that’s fine, but I think the whole system assumes teachers should sacrifice their own time in a way that is not (as I said) sustainable, or respectful.

By: D. Holcomb

D. Holcomb — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 01:44:59 +0000

Schools want parents to get involved in education – why don’t they let parents have some small (even microscopic) part in evaluating the teachers. I am sure that some parents are biased and will base their comments about a teacher on how they perceive their student was treated but you can maybe filter out the top and bottom scores or something.
I don’t think this should be the only metric. I also think this and other metrics should be looked at over time. I have seen wonderful teachers who were given a difficult class situation – that would probably produce results in any scoring that would not be typical of that teacher.
As a parent, I have been very actively involved with my kids and their teachers. I volunteer in the classroom as much as I possibly can. I have generally been happy but I think I could fairly assess some of their strengths and weaknesses as I see them. Some of the teachers my kids have learned the most with have not followed typical standards (although they met them) but have gone above and beyond in other areas – I am not sure a simple test would demonstrate those strengths.
Another problem with using tests scores to evaluate teachers is really bright students. Some teachers want to teach only GATE kids because those kids will definitely test well regardless of what is taught. The problem with a before and after test is those kids aren’t learning only in school. Parents often will supplement and the kids themselves will learn on their own. The sad part is if the teachers don’t challenge those kids – they check out – even if it isn’t necessarily reflected immediately on their test scores.
I think though that right now – it is almost impossible to be a good teacher in California. Classes are randomly generated, there are too many kids in them, there is no academic, counseling, or impact support, there is a lack of supplies, funding and programs are being cut, the environment is pretty toxic. I am very impressed by the teachers who are pushing on despite that. I am very worried about the impact it will have on the 1 in 7.7 kids in the U.S. who graduate from California schools.

By: Gordon Danning

Gordon Danning — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 00:48:32 +0000

They are usually extra PDs, for extra pay. But I dont see why PD has to be built into the contract, nor why I should be paid more to attend a PD than some of my less experienced colleagues who are lower on the salary scale than I am.

By: Ms. J.

Ms. J. — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 21:30:18 +0000

Oh yes, I know that there are many (as in any profession) who do not make the effort to improve or learn.

On the other hand, what are these PDs you mention? Are they required within our contract? Or are they extra PDs which you choose to attend, getting some form of remuneration, but not your actual salary scale, in addition to the benefits to you as a professional?

My point is that if we are expected to be professionals–to be accountable, to improve, to meet challenges–then that should be in our contract. If our nation, state, and district value education–value our students, and yes, us–then they (we) need to fund education. If what it takes for teachers to do a good job is longer school years, including more days of PD built in (at full pay), then we should pay teachers accordingly.

I think a system which relies on die-hards being intrinsically motivated to excel in the face of low pay, extreme disrespect from the public (and often from students and administrators), and pressure which increases every year is unsustainable.

By: Gordon Danning

Gordon Danning — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 17:23:01 +0000

Ms. J – I agree with much of what you say, but in fairness to Cathleen, I know of many, many teachers who do not seek out professional development and who seem so spend very little time thinking about how effective they are and how to improve. Certainly, when I go to district professional development in my subject, I see the same faces every time — and they are rather few in number

By: Ms. J.

Ms. J. — Fri, 14 Aug 2009 02:48:26 +0000

Hey Cathleen,
Wow, I guess earlier commentators should have YELLED their remarks–maybe then it would have been clear that the posters here do feel evaluation is appropriate, but that they question the use of standardized tests being used for evaluation.

I think the main take-home point is that to suggest that a teacher can control the outcomes of her classes is naive (at best–I don’t think the folk behind NCLB and charters are naive, but their agenda is a separate issue).

I am insulted by the suggestion that I don’t want to be evaluated or to improve. I am a highly motivated, hard-working, educated person who has always been successful, because of circumstance and hard work. But as an elementary school teacher the very real, wonderful, tangible successes I have attained–the many students who have made great progress while in my class–do not count. The test scores count.

I also feel offended by the implication that I and my colleagues don’t seek professional development. I am always hoping to become better at what I do. I don’t define what I do, however, as teaching how to get a mark of proficient on the state tests.

By: Cathleen

Cathleen — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 23:57:04 +0000

Teachers and Teaching is the only profession in the world that I know of that has the audacity to suggest that they shouldnt be judged on their performance or product. YOUR JOB AS A TEACHER IS TO TEACH! YOU SHOULD BE EVALUATED ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN DO THAT! YOU SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO STAY IN YOUR PROFESSION OR GO WITHOUT PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND GET THE HELP THAT YOU NEED TO HELP KIDS INDEFINITELY WHILE THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN FALL THROUGH YOUR CRACKS! This is insanity. And for the record – the regs are CLEAR that it is not based SOLELY on tests, but rather that tests are a part of myriad of items that teachers are evaluated on. Who matters most in education? I would have thought the students but that clearly is not the sentiment of the teachers union and others. Its sad and disgusting. We are really going to allow an already sunk system to sink further because adults dont want to be held accountable for their behavior???

By: BayAreaTeacher

BayAreaTeacher — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 05:05:05 +0000

Just for fun, check the openings for teachers on http://www.edjoin.org
This website lists almost all the open positions in California for all kinds of school employees. Do an advanced search to see how many positions are posted for TEACHERS, not aides or administrators or counselors, etc., and you’ll see it’s probably less than 10% of the number of teachers who were laid off in June. For each position, there is a separate credential requirement, and sometimes more than one credential is required (eg, a particular kind of Special Ed credential AND a single subject credential), so the pool of applicants is further narrowed. You’ll also see that schools are scrambling to gather applications, interview applicants, and place teachers in classrooms even as school is starting this week– because we didn’t have a budget for schools earlier in the year. The ideal candidate has all the right credentials and experience, can scan and upload all the right documents by the deadline including a brilliantly tailored cover letter, can answer all questions correctly in a very rushed last-minute interview, winning the job after competing against more than 100 other applicants. The prize is a chance to start after the first day of school, scrambling to catch up. Then there’s a good chance the teacher will be laid off, as first-year teachers in any district are the first to go when budgets are tight, no matter how good they are.

Will all this winnowing-out produce great results on next year’s tests?