I don’t think students get the point of view that I bring to the table. The reason I do like to post is because that point of view is usually missing from these threads. It does seem provocative because it’s often the polar opposite of the politically correct pap that is being served up to the public school students – those students who will face a solid wall of competition in the near future from private school educated caste who I suspect will be taking the things in life which used to be more available in previous decades for all.

Not that I have a problem with that – it’s the way of the Brave New World. A New American Caste system that is starting in grade school. I think in fairness our society should have more social mobility.

As far as me being upper class – in your dreams. Study the American Class Structure, there are numerous articles on it on the Internet. I am no more than upper middle. And that nowadays cannot be automatically passed to children and grandchildren. I have relatives on MediCal. No one lives on their investments. Get real.

What I can say is that it’s going to be more difficult for CA public school students to get what I have through public education, like I did. And my parents did. To keep kids competitive we’d have to turn down the comfort level and work them more. I don’t see that happening. In the mid 20th Century we worked public school students differently. They were tougher for it.

And the White parents of college bound white students will typically not tolerate their kids being bypassed the tried and tested method in favor of a faddish method.

I’ve noticed this forever. The parents who were themselves professionals/grad school alumni would avoid new math, new this and that, new anything, and get their kids into the (traditional) classes known to be a sure track to university level education. Kids without high-status families were the ones experimented on.

I’m not familiar with Westlake specifically. But this drill I have experience with.

On the other hand since people are different it’s always possible that lesser cognitively functioning students might function better with the different method. To the extent they function at all. What does experience show on this?

My orginal point is that the traditionally trained people in the professions (and that training can be more expensive) perform better on high demand tasks than the cheaper more comfortably trained people. Stress tested professionals are better, especially when the going gets rough. But there is a place for drones even in the professions.

Still, we have like studying with like, associating with like and marrying like – sending their kids to like education. A caste society, with different language, mores, and tastes. We (US Society) will have so little in common even the classroom experience if different.

Brave New World.

Without the use of harsh discipline, students are learning to become self-disciplined learners. As an employer, these are the employees I am looking to hire. OUSD families and teachers are often quick to say that test scores don’t tell the whole picture, I am one of those parents. I also believe in content rich education of high standards. Teaching high standards to students who do not show up reading to learn will keep test scores low as well. Westlake Middle School has taken the right steps in the right order, first to restore order, next to require students to be responsible for learning and finally to think about the content presented, to learn from it and evaluate it. My strong belief is that the test scores will follow.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/112758933/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

http://rer.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/50/2/315

http://eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ400501&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ400501

Now, it’s your turn, Nextset. I’m sure they don’t allow you to use your and your families’ experience as precedent in the courts. Or do you get away with it by questioning the qualifications of any potential critics? What makes you think your limited experiences in education are sufficient for making broad generalizations and judging effective pedagogy?

So, please cite your sources.

If you honestly think you get do a better job, get your butt out in the trenches and do something about it. Being a jerk online, doesn’t do any good. You always talk about how old you are, and how experienced you are, and how much you know about everything. Awesome, get in the classroom and teach some kids using the methods that YOU know are BEST (lecture, etc) and let’s see what impact you make.

Everyone else, sorry for the rant.