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	<title>Comments on: Bigger classes, fewer teachers, higher pay?</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: ex oakland staff</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22996</link>
		<dc:creator>ex oakland staff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 05:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22996</guid>
		<description>I have no clue how to deal with the state budget, and I did not intend to propose a solution. 
I only pointed out that the percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy was reasonable considering their share of state income. If you are going to raise money with an income tax the wealthy are going to pay more in taxes than everyone else because they have the income. This is true even if you have a non-progressive flat tax, i.e. everyone pays 10%. Whatever you tax, whoever has more of that is going to pay more taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no clue how to deal with the state budget, and I did not intend to propose a solution.<br />
I only pointed out that the percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy was reasonable considering their share of state income. If you are going to raise money with an income tax the wealthy are going to pay more in taxes than everyone else because they have the income. This is true even if you have a non-progressive flat tax, i.e. everyone pays 10%. Whatever you tax, whoever has more of that is going to pay more taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Oak261</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22905</link>
		<dc:creator>Oak261</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22905</guid>
		<description>Ex-Oakland staff:

Thanks for posting the links.  Interesting.  

I get the impression that you see a solution via taxation.

From your 2nd link of post 11:
&quot;...Due to the state’s highly progressive income tax structure, the shifting distribution has helped cause state revenues to surge in the past five years, made state revenues more volatile, and raised the share of taxes paid by high-income Californians.&quot;

Regarding Figure 10, setting aside the volatility issue, how much MORE progressive do think the already very progressive tax schedule should be?  Note that its one of the most progressive tax rate structures in the nation.  

Its reasonable that it is progressive, but what are the limits in that direction?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ex-Oakland staff:</p>
<p>Thanks for posting the links.  Interesting.  </p>
<p>I get the impression that you see a solution via taxation.</p>
<p>From your 2nd link of post 11:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;Due to the state’s highly progressive income tax structure, the shifting distribution has helped cause state revenues to surge in the past five years, made state revenues more volatile, and raised the share of taxes paid by high-income Californians.&#8221;</p>
<p>Regarding Figure 10, setting aside the volatility issue, how much MORE progressive do think the already very progressive tax schedule should be?  Note that its one of the most progressive tax rate structures in the nation.  </p>
<p>Its reasonable that it is progressive, but what are the limits in that direction?</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22863</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 08:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22863</guid>
		<description>Ex Oakland Staff - They (&quot;The Rich&quot;) may be moving and taking their income with them.

You cannot income tax out of this socialist state financial crash. Socialism is incompatible with freedom, you cannot have both. You have to choose.

There will be a collapse of state and local government here.  It is already well underway. The municipalities will be unable to make payroll by the next fiscal year budget.  There will be extreme/historic layoffs and budget/service cuts absent Obamanation printing press federal money - by June. And the death spiral will continue. Yes this state will raise all taxes. Yes this will continue to push the productive people out of CA to OR,NV, AZ and elsewhere (states with less generous welfare spending) - taking their businesses and professions with them.

This doesn&#039;t bode well for public schools. I predict big change in operations in the forseeable future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ex Oakland Staff &#8211; They (&#8220;The Rich&#8221;) may be moving and taking their income with them.</p>
<p>You cannot income tax out of this socialist state financial crash. Socialism is incompatible with freedom, you cannot have both. You have to choose.</p>
<p>There will be a collapse of state and local government here.  It is already well underway. The municipalities will be unable to make payroll by the next fiscal year budget.  There will be extreme/historic layoffs and budget/service cuts absent Obamanation printing press federal money &#8211; by June. And the death spiral will continue. Yes this state will raise all taxes. Yes this will continue to push the productive people out of CA to OR,NV, AZ and elsewhere (states with less generous welfare spending) &#8211; taking their businesses and professions with them.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t bode well for public schools. I predict big change in operations in the forseeable future.</p>
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		<title>By: ex oakland staff</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22860</link>
		<dc:creator>ex oakland staff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 03:04:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22860</guid>
		<description>That tax discrepancy should be no surprise or cause for concern when you have the biggest income gap between rich an poor since the 1920&#039;s. 
Right now, the top 1% of Californians make 25% of the money, so of course they will be paying more of the taxes - it&#039;s an INCOME tax and they have the INCOME!
 
http://www.cbpp.org/archiveSite/states/4-9-08sfp-fact-ca.pdf
http://www.lao.ca.gov/2000/0800_inc_dist/0800_income_distribution.pdf 
http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2009/0906_pp_IncomeGaps.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That tax discrepancy should be no surprise or cause for concern when you have the biggest income gap between rich an poor since the 1920&#8242;s.<br />
Right now, the top 1% of Californians make 25% of the money, so of course they will be paying more of the taxes &#8211; it&#8217;s an INCOME tax and they have the INCOME!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cbpp.org/archiveSite/states/4-9-08sfp-fact-ca.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbpp.org/archiveSite/states/4-9-08sfp-fact-ca.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.lao.ca.gov/2000/0800_inc_dist/0800_income_distribution.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.lao.ca.gov/2000/0800_inc_dist/0800_income_distribution.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2009/0906_pp_IncomeGaps.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbp.org/pdfs/2009/0906_pp_IncomeGaps.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: oak261</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22848</link>
		<dc:creator>oak261</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22848</guid>
		<description>From http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/jtf/JTF_TaxBurdenJTF.pdf
in 2006, the top 15% of california taxpayers &quot;paid 84% of the state income tax.&quot; 
Probably similar stats for 2008.  Food for thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From <a href="http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/jtf/JTF_TaxBurdenJTF.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.ppic.org/content/pubs/jtf/JTF_TaxBurdenJTF.pdf</a><br />
in 2006, the top 15% of california taxpayers &#8220;paid 84% of the state income tax.&#8221;<br />
Probably similar stats for 2008.  Food for thought.</p>
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		<title>By: TheTruthHurts</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22840</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruthHurts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22840</guid>
		<description>Mr. Danning (#7), 

I don&#039;t often agree with Nextset, but on this we agree - The tax-paying public is not ready to spend more on public education the way it&#039;s currently structured.  They are holding on to their wallets/purses.  If you said, give up your Starbucks and we&#039;ll have low dropouts, equitable college graduation and a high growth economy, people simply wouldn&#039;t believe you.  We are now the boy that cried wolf.

Change of the system is necessary along with a change in how California funds itself.  But, right now.  Reality is this state is broke and about to go bankrupt.  Sure, they could reprioritize away from prisons.  That would be a start, but it would not fix the fundamental problems that have been facing this state for at least a generation.  Our booms are bigger and so are our busts.  This is going to be one whale of a bust.

Unemployment is at 12.5%.  Only Michigan, Nevada and Rhode Island are worse.  Read that again until it sinks in.  Then think of what unemployment in Oakland must be.

Those three states together are about a third of California&#039;s population.  I don&#039;t know much about the economy of Rhode Island, but the states are essentially one or two trick ponies when it comes to industries.  California on the other hand is the worlds 7 or 8th largest economy. Why are we in the boat with them???

We&#039;re sending out IOUs, cutting salaries of politicians by 18%, raising college tuition (again) by 32% in one year.  Our state workers are on furlough, our schools have taken a 20% cut over what they should have gotten from cost of living.  While there may be wealth in California, it is not currently being managed by the state government.  For that to change, the infamous 66 2/3rds rule will have to be addressed and along with it our willingness to spend beyond our means.

I hope Nextset&#039;s vision doesn&#039;t come to pass, but at the rate we&#039;re going, it&#039;s becoming more plausible by the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Danning (#7), </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t often agree with Nextset, but on this we agree &#8211; The tax-paying public is not ready to spend more on public education the way it&#8217;s currently structured.  They are holding on to their wallets/purses.  If you said, give up your Starbucks and we&#8217;ll have low dropouts, equitable college graduation and a high growth economy, people simply wouldn&#8217;t believe you.  We are now the boy that cried wolf.</p>
<p>Change of the system is necessary along with a change in how California funds itself.  But, right now.  Reality is this state is broke and about to go bankrupt.  Sure, they could reprioritize away from prisons.  That would be a start, but it would not fix the fundamental problems that have been facing this state for at least a generation.  Our booms are bigger and so are our busts.  This is going to be one whale of a bust.</p>
<p>Unemployment is at 12.5%.  Only Michigan, Nevada and Rhode Island are worse.  Read that again until it sinks in.  Then think of what unemployment in Oakland must be.</p>
<p>Those three states together are about a third of California&#8217;s population.  I don&#8217;t know much about the economy of Rhode Island, but the states are essentially one or two trick ponies when it comes to industries.  California on the other hand is the worlds 7 or 8th largest economy. Why are we in the boat with them???</p>
<p>We&#8217;re sending out IOUs, cutting salaries of politicians by 18%, raising college tuition (again) by 32% in one year.  Our state workers are on furlough, our schools have taken a 20% cut over what they should have gotten from cost of living.  While there may be wealth in California, it is not currently being managed by the state government.  For that to change, the infamous 66 2/3rds rule will have to be addressed and along with it our willingness to spend beyond our means.</p>
<p>I hope Nextset&#8217;s vision doesn&#8217;t come to pass, but at the rate we&#8217;re going, it&#8217;s becoming more plausible by the day.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22838</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22838</guid>
		<description>Gordon Danning:  Do we even have 20 million CA taxpayers? Most of the people I see don&#039;t pay (income) taxes.  Their declared income is low enough to avoid some taxes. In CA Income taxes are paid by a fraction of the population.  Some of that fraction are making plans to relocate. The retiring baby boomers are considering leaving. Regressive taxes such as sales taxes can also be avoided by simply moving to Portland. I know salesclerks (Best Buy) who are planning to leave CA next summer for OR. They will walk away from the house &amp; mortgage and bankrupt in the process. They tell me that since their wages were cut 35% they cannot make a life in this state anymore.

It&#039;s not a matter of people giving up Starbucks and funding the public schools. People don&#039;t want to fund the public schools - they hate the public schools. The civil servants I know don&#039;t use the urban public schools. LA Unified is 6% white, and OUSD and Richmond Unified?  Who wants to donate a used car to them, much less cash?  Minorities?  Please..  The charitable tendencies of minorities wouldn&#039;t keep Rosa Parks well fed. Those who run charities know who gives and who doesn&#039;t.  If the public money dries up the public schools will collapse. 

Or as one school district has put it, Summer School is cancelled, you can take an online course.  I think we are going to hear a lot more of this in the future only it won&#039;t be the summer school classes they are canceling it will be all the college prep classes - which I&#039;ll bet will be the first to go in favor of online secondary school education.

We are about to face change in education.  More change in the next 5 years than the previous 30.

I don&#039;t know if this is good or bad anymore, just unstoppable.  

Brave New World.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon Danning:  Do we even have 20 million CA taxpayers? Most of the people I see don&#8217;t pay (income) taxes.  Their declared income is low enough to avoid some taxes. In CA Income taxes are paid by a fraction of the population.  Some of that fraction are making plans to relocate. The retiring baby boomers are considering leaving. Regressive taxes such as sales taxes can also be avoided by simply moving to Portland. I know salesclerks (Best Buy) who are planning to leave CA next summer for OR. They will walk away from the house &amp; mortgage and bankrupt in the process. They tell me that since their wages were cut 35% they cannot make a life in this state anymore.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a matter of people giving up Starbucks and funding the public schools. People don&#8217;t want to fund the public schools &#8211; they hate the public schools. The civil servants I know don&#8217;t use the urban public schools. LA Unified is 6% white, and OUSD and Richmond Unified?  Who wants to donate a used car to them, much less cash?  Minorities?  Please..  The charitable tendencies of minorities wouldn&#8217;t keep Rosa Parks well fed. Those who run charities know who gives and who doesn&#8217;t.  If the public money dries up the public schools will collapse. </p>
<p>Or as one school district has put it, Summer School is cancelled, you can take an online course.  I think we are going to hear a lot more of this in the future only it won&#8217;t be the summer school classes they are canceling it will be all the college prep classes &#8211; which I&#8217;ll bet will be the first to go in favor of online secondary school education.</p>
<p>We are about to face change in education.  More change in the next 5 years than the previous 30.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if this is good or bad anymore, just unstoppable.  </p>
<p>Brave New World.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22836</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 20:22:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22836</guid>
		<description>Nextext observes, &quot;If there is no money, there’s no money.&quot;  That is very true, but it is also a very big &quot;if.&quot;  There is plenty of money in the California economy; that money can be used to purchase government services (through payment of taxes) or to purchase consumer goods, or for a myriad of other things.  For example, I buy a coffee and 2 bagels every morning on the way to school; at $3.85, that equuals $700.00 per year.  If each of the 20 million taxpayers gave up their morning $3.85 coffee and bagels and devoted that sum to taxes, the state would get an extra $14 billion per year.  Now, if the people of California choose to use their money for consumption rather than for government services, that is certainly their choice.  But it IS a choice; let&#039;s not pretend otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextext observes, &#8220;If there is no money, there’s no money.&#8221;  That is very true, but it is also a very big &#8220;if.&#8221;  There is plenty of money in the California economy; that money can be used to purchase government services (through payment of taxes) or to purchase consumer goods, or for a myriad of other things.  For example, I buy a coffee and 2 bagels every morning on the way to school; at $3.85, that equuals $700.00 per year.  If each of the 20 million taxpayers gave up their morning $3.85 coffee and bagels and devoted that sum to taxes, the state would get an extra $14 billion per year.  Now, if the people of California choose to use their money for consumption rather than for government services, that is certainly their choice.  But it IS a choice; let&#8217;s not pretend otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Debora</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22835</link>
		<dc:creator>Debora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22835</guid>
		<description>In elementary school, we really, really need the benchmark testing - at the very least through third grade. It seems to me that reading and math concepts must be mastered by third grade for future success without struggle. 

I agree that teachers, or even teacher&#039;s aides can grade the tests - if elementary teachers grade the tests they can watch for classroom trends as they are grading.

I agree with other testing that requires sending tests out and back however, it is a waste of time and money and tests as well as results are often misplaced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In elementary school, we really, really need the benchmark testing &#8211; at the very least through third grade. It seems to me that reading and math concepts must be mastered by third grade for future success without struggle. </p>
<p>I agree that teachers, or even teacher&#8217;s aides can grade the tests &#8211; if elementary teachers grade the tests they can watch for classroom trends as they are grading.</p>
<p>I agree with other testing that requires sending tests out and back however, it is a waste of time and money and tests as well as results are often misplaced.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Weinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/11/17/bigger-classes-fewer-teachers-higher-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-22833</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Weinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Nov 2009 18:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7364#comment-22833</guid>
		<description>One way I would reduce district expenses would be to suspend district benchmark testing until the crisis is over.  Teachers who found the tests valuable could continue to use past year&#039;s tests and grade them on site, but the cost of consultants to prepare them, the cost of reproducing them and delivering them, and costs of generating reports would be eliminated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way I would reduce district expenses would be to suspend district benchmark testing until the crisis is over.  Teachers who found the tests valuable could continue to use past year&#8217;s tests and grade them on site, but the cost of consultants to prepare them, the cost of reproducing them and delivering them, and costs of generating reports would be eliminated.</p>
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