Comments on: The charter movement: 5K schools in 18 years

By: Alice Spearman

Alice Spearman — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:03:05 +0000

Darius,
Thank you for voting for me, much of what you wrote I agree with. But I do have to follow the law, it is a fact that some of my neightbors push the limit and get away with it, public education gives folks that right, charters do not have to give people that right. Remember, You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make them drink. Those students who do not fit the traditional mold, still must be served, and we serve them. Continue to be a good role model, it is noticed by more students than you think.

By: Caroline

Caroline — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 02:22:27 +0000

Union Supporter But … That’s not an accurate description of public schools in San Francisco. In this case I can’t speak for Oakland.

Y. and everyone, I read Jonathan Schorr’s book “Hard Lessons,” about the founding of an Oakland charter school (really two, focusing mostly on one, E.C. Reems). Bear in mind that Schorr’s angle was explicitly pro-charter and that he subsequently went to work in the lucrative charter school world. (Schorr was Katy’s predecessor as Oakland Tribune education reporter before he went over to the dark side — oops, I mean changed careers.)

His book made it abundantly clear that charter schools do ANYTHING THEY DAMN WELL PLEASE, unchecked, unchallenged and unhampered, rules and laws be damned. Please read it before you argue with me. Here in the reality-based world, sharp-eyed regulators are NOT poking around charter schools to see what process they’re using to expel students, or anything else either. Please recall the myriad forms of lawbreaking and wrongdoing that went on at Uprep — unsuspected, unregulated, unobserved and unchallenged — until insider whistleblowers contacted the press. Given that total lack of scrutiny, any charter can kick out any student at any time it pleases.

By: Union Supporter-But

Union Supporter-But — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:43:59 +0000

Would those from an elementary school weigh in. The behavior I identified was from a second grade hills teacher.

And, Gordon, in the hills, in elementary school when teachers keep their classrooms open there is EXTREME pressure.

Gordon: You are also right about one thing, I have seen many, many middle school (Edna Brewer having the greatest number) teachers keep their classes open after school and during lunch – before school as well. I know of many high school teachers who do so as well. I should have been much clearer in my statement.

CLARIFICATION: The elementary schools in the hills of which I am familiar do not allow their students in the halls before or after school and teachers do not help students or open their doors before or after school. Students who are in the halls to show their work or to say hello to a past teacher are reminded that they are disobeying school rules for being in the hallway of their school without permission.

By: del

del — Thu, 03 Dec 2009 01:24:53 +0000

WOW US-B, you really found a doozy of an (ex)employee to talk to. Let me be very clear that every teacher at my (public) school is expected to stay after the school day to help kids who need it—not expected to by administration, but expected to by the students, colleagues, and community. And they meet and exceed that expectation, and I challenge anyone to come here after 3 pm and find a classroom with out a kid in it (not counting the 200+ that stay for after school programs).
As for kids being in the hallways before school, its true that we do discourage that—I work at a middle school, and unsupervised people of that age are a danger to themselves and to the student work on the walls! However, we do implement a pass system so that students can visit their teacher if their teacher is expecting them. As for during class, clearly no student should be out of class anyway, and you can be sure I am giving a lot more than a mean look if I see a child in a hallway without an adult escort.
As for charters being the opposite, clearly such a blanket generalization is not meant to be taken seriously. However, take a look at BayTech, where students have to wait OUTSIDE CAMPUS (yes, on 48th street & telegraph, in my front yard) until the bell to start school rings. Luckily I leave early enough that I’m not the one breaking up the fights or telling the kids to get out of the street… I just have to pick up after them when I get home.
Also, although I don’t expect you to reveal it, I’d LOVE to know who is suggesting teachers shouldn’t stay late to help kids. I do not appreciate them suggesting that I or my colleagues do not fulfill our moral imperative to educate the students.

And about OMI—I have no problem with the school & I’ve seen many kids do well there, but we also have 6 students here that were booted from OMI. SUre OMI can say they “chose” to leave, but when a kid is in the office to register and he’s crying and his mom is crying I don’t think it’s a choice. Please also consider the “demerit” system used there that is not legal for use at public schools, and has led to many students being put out of the school.

By: On The Fence

On The Fence — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:03:54 +0000

Gordon Danning:

Let me piggy back on your comment. Your neighbor up the block, Edna Brewer Middle School, also has many, many teachers who open their doors very early and stay late for free tutoring, academic help, a safe place, musical practice, etc. They must do this because of their dedication to their profession, because they are certainly NOT compensated (they are one of the bottom 5 in funding).

Sorry to drive home my earlier point folks, but Edna Brewer’s API is 822, Montera’s API is about 814, and OMI’s is only 708. Money doesn’t seem to be the answer… Maybe we should start looking a what our Oakland traditionals are doing right!

By: TheTruthHurts

TheTruthHurts — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:44:46 +0000

Wow. I’m far too late to this party, but it is clear that this is THE hot button issue in the District (at least for insiders). Every time the word charter shows up, count on 20+ comments from every end of the spectrum.

By: Gordon Danning

Gordon Danning — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 18:10:39 +0000

Union Supporter – But:

At Oakland High School there are many, many teachers who keep their rooms open after school, including myself, and no one has ever, ever, done anything to dissuade them (except the janitors who want to clean the rooms). This long-standing myth of peer pressure being brought to bear against teachers who go the extra mile for their students seems to be just that — a myth.

By: Union Supporter-But

Union Supporter-But — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 06:39:03 +0000

I was just at the district office today talking to an employee who used to teach in a school. I was talking about students who need additional help and that some teachers keep their doors open until 4:00 pm to help with homework or assignments that are not understood. This employee was very, very clear that the teacher should not be allowed to keep a classroom open in the afternoon. Even if that teacher wanted to do so because it creates ill will with the other teachers and the school.

This is the difference between charter schools and our public schools. I have never heard an employee of a charter school say that a classroom should not be able to be open early or open late.

This is not to say that union employees should have to open their classrooms early or to stay late – but if they want to, they should not be pressured or intimidated to close their doors.

One last thing that I have noticed as a difference in public and charter schools – and this is a general statement, because there are some public school exceptions, so far I have seen two – public school students (elementary) are not allowed to be in the hallways, to talk to teachers or to even look at the bulletin boards to show parents or friends their work before school, at recess, at lunch or after school. Charter schools – and I have seen no exceptions – open their doors, their displays, their corridors, their classrooms, their teachers, their principal, their school staff openly roaming the school campus, making eye contact, calling each other by name, talking about the work that is happening at the school.

In the elementary schools I am actively involved in teachers routinely stop students they see in the hall and disdainfully ask them why they are in the corridor, why they are not obeying the rules and if they want to have their parents notified – these were students who wanted to say hello to the past years’ teachers and who were showing off work on bulletin boards.

That folks is a dirty dog shame – and the truth in many OUSD public elementary schools.

By: kris

kris — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 05:53:01 +0000

I have worked in public schools as a teacher for 5 years and now I have been teaching at a charter school. I feel truly inspired by the dedication, close community of students and teachers and positive culture in this small school environment. We strive for excellence and academic success. We don’t turn away any students at our school and we open our doors to everyone. I feel that charters can be very successful, especially when they offer diverse options for courses and electives programs in science, art, mathematics and technology based programs.
Students can truly thrive in a small school culture, as their needs are met for individualized instruction and socratic dialogue within the classroom structure.
I feel that charters are not attempting to push out the public school system, we are only offering students an opportunity for academic success within a small classroom structured environment. Parents should research their options and decide what placement is best for their child, looking at the programs and college aligned courses offered in both public and charter schools.

By: Yastrzemski

Yastrzemski — Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:59:01 +0000

Sorry, you’re wrong…to expel a student, it is the same. The charter is held by OUSD and the parents have the same rights as a public school parent.
What kind of standards do you think exist at OMI that kids at a public school cannot meet? The difference is that OMI enforces the rules and holds the student/family responsible for their actions. It is something public school should strive to do more.