<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Teachers, vacancies, rights and seniority rules</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 05:04:36 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23373</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:35:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarah,  I&#039;m glad you noticed - I&#039;m not politically correct.  I call it as I see it. I have little interest in being &quot;sensitive&quot; to people who need to change or else. Those that do are part of the problem.

Caroline: You have an interesting problem with that problem teacher. This is an example of the Educrats running around thinking that whenever the scores go up it is because the teacher sprinkles some kind of magic dust on the kids. So they don&#039;t open their eyes and see crazy when it&#039;s in front of them. I&#039;ve been mentioning this in passing as long as I&#039;ve been blogging here, but I do have to phrase this very carefully because the management of the blog has feelings.

The test scores are a typically reflection of the kids not the teacher. The test scores will move quickly in response to a demographic change in the class. This is more measurable as you are dealing with larger numbers of people. In a smaller group it can be dramatic if certain demographic changes occur.

So the fact that this problem teacher had a good year previously may have a lot to do with who he was &quot;teaching&quot; and who the previous group was they are being measured against.  If we are talking about score increases within a year by a class, you look at what the baseline increase you would have expected if any average teacher were there. Maybe he&#039;s a &quot;good&quot; teacher, or maybe he drew a productive demographic.

I am not aware of a productive, &quot;good&quot; teacher telling students that they are unable to do &quot;the work&quot;. You don&#039;t try to teach pigs to fly. You teach and make assignments that you have a reasonable expectation your students can produce.  Otherwise you are hurting the kids and wasting your time.

Problem teacher is in a new school and maybe missing his favorite subjects and is losing it.  He needs to go if he can&#039;t cope. A good teacher who likes their subject can size up his students and get something done. And usually &quot;something&quot; is more than the students thought they could do. So what I expect to see is teacher telling the kids he wouldn&#039;t be working them if he didn&#039;t know they were capable. Or changing the assignments to survey level.

When a teacher has decided that the (colored?) folks are not smart enough you will see watered down assignments and false praise. My parents were always watching like a hawk for that. What you describe here is not that, it&#039;s something else. He&#039;s probably scared of his job. And he&#039;s trying to hide that with this behavior. Maybe you and the other teachers need to have it out with him - tell him he&#039;s screwing up and he&#039;d better change his line fast before he has the place in an uproar further and unifies everybody against him. And if he can&#039;t produce better than this he should leave before he&#039;s thrown out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah,  I&#8217;m glad you noticed &#8211; I&#8217;m not politically correct.  I call it as I see it. I have little interest in being &#8220;sensitive&#8221; to people who need to change or else. Those that do are part of the problem.</p>
<p>Caroline: You have an interesting problem with that problem teacher. This is an example of the Educrats running around thinking that whenever the scores go up it is because the teacher sprinkles some kind of magic dust on the kids. So they don&#8217;t open their eyes and see crazy when it&#8217;s in front of them. I&#8217;ve been mentioning this in passing as long as I&#8217;ve been blogging here, but I do have to phrase this very carefully because the management of the blog has feelings.</p>
<p>The test scores are a typically reflection of the kids not the teacher. The test scores will move quickly in response to a demographic change in the class. This is more measurable as you are dealing with larger numbers of people. In a smaller group it can be dramatic if certain demographic changes occur.</p>
<p>So the fact that this problem teacher had a good year previously may have a lot to do with who he was &#8220;teaching&#8221; and who the previous group was they are being measured against.  If we are talking about score increases within a year by a class, you look at what the baseline increase you would have expected if any average teacher were there. Maybe he&#8217;s a &#8220;good&#8221; teacher, or maybe he drew a productive demographic.</p>
<p>I am not aware of a productive, &#8220;good&#8221; teacher telling students that they are unable to do &#8220;the work&#8221;. You don&#8217;t try to teach pigs to fly. You teach and make assignments that you have a reasonable expectation your students can produce.  Otherwise you are hurting the kids and wasting your time.</p>
<p>Problem teacher is in a new school and maybe missing his favorite subjects and is losing it.  He needs to go if he can&#8217;t cope. A good teacher who likes their subject can size up his students and get something done. And usually &#8220;something&#8221; is more than the students thought they could do. So what I expect to see is teacher telling the kids he wouldn&#8217;t be working them if he didn&#8217;t know they were capable. Or changing the assignments to survey level.</p>
<p>When a teacher has decided that the (colored?) folks are not smart enough you will see watered down assignments and false praise. My parents were always watching like a hawk for that. What you describe here is not that, it&#8217;s something else. He&#8217;s probably scared of his job. And he&#8217;s trying to hide that with this behavior. Maybe you and the other teachers need to have it out with him &#8211; tell him he&#8217;s screwing up and he&#8217;d better change his line fast before he has the place in an uproar further and unifies everybody against him. And if he can&#8217;t produce better than this he should leave before he&#8217;s thrown out.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Caroline</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23372</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23372</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry about my illiterate-looking sentence -- an incomplete edit (&quot;He constantly belittles the students telling them students they’re not capable of doing the work.&quot;)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about my illiterate-looking sentence &#8212; an incomplete edit (&#8220;He constantly belittles the students telling them students they’re not capable of doing the work.&#8221;)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Caroline</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23371</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 22:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have a teacher friend who is badly troubled by a problem co-worker in a nearby classroom, and the real-life situation is SO different from the stereotype of the tenured deadwood veteran portrayed by TheTruthHurts that I have to call it out.

TheTruthHurts&#039; comment:

&quot;My child should not suffer because a teacher has passed their prime but has enough seniority to be in my school.&quot;

The situation in real life (small, low-income Bay Area district, neither OUSD nor SFUSD): Teacher hired with one previous year&#039;s experience in the classroom. He is a midlife career-changer from a respected professional field. The school administrators have chosen to group all the lower-performing students in one class and have given it to him. He constantly belittles the students telling them students they&#039;re not capable of doing the work. He gave almost the entire class F&#039;s. This caused parents (who are low-income and otherwise unempowered and disengaged) to come en masse to a school board meeting, but the district superintendent read them a portion of the Brown Act involving confidentiality of employee evaluations to intimidate them into silence. (The superintendent was misleading them, of course.)

This is a situation where the class (5th grade) has two teachers in different subject areas. My friend, the teacher in the nearby classroom watching the situation with dismay, says the second teacher gets good and challenging work out of these same kids, the ones who are told that they&#039;re hopelessly stupid by the newbie teacher with the professional background and advanced degrees. All their colleagues are distressed about this problem teacher, but they are powerless.

My friend says that the reason the problem teacher was hired is that in his one previous year teaching, in a different district, his class&#039;s test scores rose.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a teacher friend who is badly troubled by a problem co-worker in a nearby classroom, and the real-life situation is SO different from the stereotype of the tenured deadwood veteran portrayed by TheTruthHurts that I have to call it out.</p>
<p>TheTruthHurts&#8217; comment:</p>
<p>&#8220;My child should not suffer because a teacher has passed their prime but has enough seniority to be in my school.&#8221;</p>
<p>The situation in real life (small, low-income Bay Area district, neither OUSD nor SFUSD): Teacher hired with one previous year&#8217;s experience in the classroom. He is a midlife career-changer from a respected professional field. The school administrators have chosen to group all the lower-performing students in one class and have given it to him. He constantly belittles the students telling them students they&#8217;re not capable of doing the work. He gave almost the entire class F&#8217;s. This caused parents (who are low-income and otherwise unempowered and disengaged) to come en masse to a school board meeting, but the district superintendent read them a portion of the Brown Act involving confidentiality of employee evaluations to intimidate them into silence. (The superintendent was misleading them, of course.)</p>
<p>This is a situation where the class (5th grade) has two teachers in different subject areas. My friend, the teacher in the nearby classroom watching the situation with dismay, says the second teacher gets good and challenging work out of these same kids, the ones who are told that they&#8217;re hopelessly stupid by the newbie teacher with the professional background and advanced degrees. All their colleagues are distressed about this problem teacher, but they are powerless.</p>
<p>My friend says that the reason the problem teacher was hired is that in his one previous year teaching, in a different district, his class&#8217;s test scores rose.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TheTruthHurts</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23368</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruthHurts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTW Katy, do they pay you well enough to do this kind of research/reporting?  I&#039;m still getting through it, but that series looks pretty good.  Good info from all sides.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW Katy, do they pay you well enough to do this kind of research/reporting?  I&#8217;m still getting through it, but that series looks pretty good.  Good info from all sides.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TheTruthHurts</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23367</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruthHurts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Dec 2009 19:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We are not blaming the teachers, we are blaming the system.  A system that rewards tenure over performance.  A system that doesn&#039;t allow changes to occur quickly when things are not working.  A system that doesn&#039;t provide support while simultaneously demanding results.  I don&#039;t blame other teachers for poor teachers any more than I blame myself for my lazy co-worker.  The system is broken. 
 
Who is to blame?  I don&#039;t care.  Fix it!!

My child should not suffer because a teacher has passed their prime but has enough seniority to be in my school.  My child should not suffer because the principal is a dictator and demotivates staff when they need support for truly difficult jobs.  My child doesn&#039;t deserve to have all the research we&#039;ve done on neighborhoods, schools, etc. go down the drain because seniority poisons the teaching pool at the site.  

Teachers make the difference.  At least that&#039;s what teachers say.  I agree with them.  Well, if you make the difference for good - guess what?  You make the difference for bad too.  A great teacher can overcome amazing obstacles and a poor one can fail even after immense support.  That is not to disparage the individual - just their career choice at the time.  They&#039;re surely great at something else.  These are not easy jobs.

Until this situation changes, charters will continue to be an attractive alternative for parents who want to do more than drop their kids off and pick them back up.  Not that charters are better.  We know that can be hard to assess.  It just provides comfort that the school has the same flexibility I would want as a parent in deciding who interacts with my child.

What parent wants to hear, &quot;I&#039;m sorry, we know this teacher is not effective.  We&#039;re trying just like his last three schools.  Hopefully, we&#039;ll have better luck.&quot;  We all know, that teacher will be back next year or if you&#039;re lucky, shipped off to another school to annoy them.  At some point it gets ridiculous.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We are not blaming the teachers, we are blaming the system.  A system that rewards tenure over performance.  A system that doesn&#8217;t allow changes to occur quickly when things are not working.  A system that doesn&#8217;t provide support while simultaneously demanding results.  I don&#8217;t blame other teachers for poor teachers any more than I blame myself for my lazy co-worker.  The system is broken. </p>
<p>Who is to blame?  I don&#8217;t care.  Fix it!!</p>
<p>My child should not suffer because a teacher has passed their prime but has enough seniority to be in my school.  My child should not suffer because the principal is a dictator and demotivates staff when they need support for truly difficult jobs.  My child doesn&#8217;t deserve to have all the research we&#8217;ve done on neighborhoods, schools, etc. go down the drain because seniority poisons the teaching pool at the site.  </p>
<p>Teachers make the difference.  At least that&#8217;s what teachers say.  I agree with them.  Well, if you make the difference for good &#8211; guess what?  You make the difference for bad too.  A great teacher can overcome amazing obstacles and a poor one can fail even after immense support.  That is not to disparage the individual &#8211; just their career choice at the time.  They&#8217;re surely great at something else.  These are not easy jobs.</p>
<p>Until this situation changes, charters will continue to be an attractive alternative for parents who want to do more than drop their kids off and pick them back up.  Not that charters are better.  We know that can be hard to assess.  It just provides comfort that the school has the same flexibility I would want as a parent in deciding who interacts with my child.</p>
<p>What parent wants to hear, &#8220;I&#8217;m sorry, we know this teacher is not effective.  We&#8217;re trying just like his last three schools.  Hopefully, we&#8217;ll have better luck.&#8221;  We all know, that teacher will be back next year or if you&#8217;re lucky, shipped off to another school to annoy them.  At some point it gets ridiculous.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: OUSD Teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23359</link>
		<dc:creator>OUSD Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23359</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[wannabe teacher,

I got a job with OUSD using Oakland Teacher corps-- to enroll in this program you have to have a traditional credential from a regular teaching program-- I found it fairly easy to get a job after my credential program. granted that was 3 years ago, but I often hear of vacancies-- maybe you need to do a little more research...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wannabe teacher,</p>
<p>I got a job with OUSD using Oakland Teacher corps&#8211; to enroll in this program you have to have a traditional credential from a regular teaching program&#8211; I found it fairly easy to get a job after my credential program. granted that was 3 years ago, but I often hear of vacancies&#8211; maybe you need to do a little more research&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23356</link>
		<dc:creator>JR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23356</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sarah,
        Excellent point, principals DO need more autonomy because they are in charge at the school(at ground zero), and their job is on the line and dependent on many others(teachers) doing their jobs right! Therefore they should be able to choose(within reason) their own staff irregardless of tenure. Some teachers have been at it too long(short tempered &amp; ill willed)and some are just not teaching material.I want to stress very heavily that in my experience(PTA and extensive involvement with different districts)the overwhelming majority of teachers are wonderful and very hard-working and dedicated professionals. Make no mistake about that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah,<br />
        Excellent point, principals DO need more autonomy because they are in charge at the school(at ground zero), and their job is on the line and dependent on many others(teachers) doing their jobs right! Therefore they should be able to choose(within reason) their own staff irregardless of tenure. Some teachers have been at it too long(short tempered &amp; ill willed)and some are just not teaching material.I want to stress very heavily that in my experience(PTA and extensive involvement with different districts)the overwhelming majority of teachers are wonderful and very hard-working and dedicated professionals. Make no mistake about that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: oaklandteacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23355</link>
		<dc:creator>oaklandteacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Dec 2009 01:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I came through Oakland Teaching Fellows, a non-traditional path, along with 70 other teachers this year. I think that before calling myself and many others &quot;not qualified&quot;, please come and observe many of the great things that we are accomplishing in OUSD. I teach for achievement and know that many of my colleagues do too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came through Oakland Teaching Fellows, a non-traditional path, along with 70 other teachers this year. I think that before calling myself and many others &#8220;not qualified&#8221;, please come and observe many of the great things that we are accomplishing in OUSD. I teach for achievement and know that many of my colleagues do too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23354</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23354</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FYI to Wannabe Teacher - any first-year teacher costs OUSD the same salary and benefits, no matter if he/she is traditional, TFA, OTF, etc. 

@Nextset: Your posts are often racially/socioeconomically insensitive at best. At worst, they are offensive and degrading to the students and families OUSD serves (not to mention the teachers!). Please consider the implications of your writings before you post.

On the subject of the original post: 
I work in one of OUSD&#039;s traditional schools, but operate under the view that any school that is providing high-quality educational opportunities to all groups of children should be allowed to continue, regardless of their status as public or charter. The bottom line is that our policies must support what is best for kids, not adults. 

And on that note, our principals desperately need the ability to choose their staffs. Our school has seen negative/flat growth over the past 5 years, much of which is due to a cohort of incredibly ineffective teachers that have no place in our school. The person in front of each classroom matters more than anything else, and if we can&#039;t choose those teachers, how will we ever make gains?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI to Wannabe Teacher &#8211; any first-year teacher costs OUSD the same salary and benefits, no matter if he/she is traditional, TFA, OTF, etc. </p>
<p>@Nextset: Your posts are often racially/socioeconomically insensitive at best. At worst, they are offensive and degrading to the students and families OUSD serves (not to mention the teachers!). Please consider the implications of your writings before you post.</p>
<p>On the subject of the original post:<br />
I work in one of OUSD&#8217;s traditional schools, but operate under the view that any school that is providing high-quality educational opportunities to all groups of children should be allowed to continue, regardless of their status as public or charter. The bottom line is that our policies must support what is best for kids, not adults. </p>
<p>And on that note, our principals desperately need the ability to choose their staffs. Our school has seen negative/flat growth over the past 5 years, much of which is due to a cohort of incredibly ineffective teachers that have no place in our school. The person in front of each classroom matters more than anything else, and if we can&#8217;t choose those teachers, how will we ever make gains?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2009/12/18/teachers-vacancies-rights-and-seniority-rules/comment-page-1/#comment-23336</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 06:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=7707#comment-23336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wannabe:

My school has had plenty of TFA teachers over the years, and although they haven&#039;t always stayed that long, they have indeed been high quality - well above average, probably.  So it hardly seems fair to accuse the district of not caring about the quality of their teachers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wannabe:</p>
<p>My school has had plenty of TFA teachers over the years, and although they haven&#8217;t always stayed that long, they have indeed been high quality &#8211; well above average, probably.  So it hardly seems fair to accuse the district of not caring about the quality of their teachers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using apc
Page Caching using apc
Database Caching 5/19 queries in 0.007 seconds using apc
Object Caching 284/288 objects using apc

Served from: www.ibabuzz.com @ 2013-05-23 22:51:54 -->