Considering Oakland High
By Katy Murphy
Friday, July 23rd, 2010 at 8:30 am in families, high schools, parents, students.
Nia Lozano, a middle school parent, tells us about a new group that’s building support for Oakland High School.
An interesting new group has formed in the Crocker and Glenview neighborhoods of Oakland. It was formed by some parents from Edna Brewer who would like other neighborhood parents to consider Oakland High.
This is truly the first time I have ever heard families musing about Oakland High, even among the die-hard, Edna Brewer, go public, local school advocates. The communities of Crocker and Glenview have been relatively silent about Oakland High, which is interesting given that the last time I checked their scores were only marginally lower than Oakland Tech and Skyline (and may have been better in some areas of math, I can’t recall right now.)
What I gather is that the new principal is well regarded and that may have sparked the interest, besides the fact that if parents could raise the community profile of Edna Brewer, they should be able to do the same with O High.
I am not an organizer of this, but on Tuesday, I went to a house meeting and heard a presentation by the principal and a huge showing of her staff. They all sounded sharp and really seemed to understand their audience (Glenview/Crocker middle to upper middle class families who care about education).
This really felt like an important beginning of something, but I don’t think I’ll be sending my eighth grader there next year. I have a fifth grader at Crocker, however, and would love to see the hills folks trickle down and make this a neighborhood public school, so I’m hoping to stay involved.
It was an amazing feeling to get the email inviting me to the first Consider Oakland High meeting and I thought “Duh, what took us all so long? I’d rather not drive to Tech.” Also, this would be the perfect trifecta for our neighborhoods: Crocker, Brewer, OHigh or Glenview, Brewer, OHigh!
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July 23rd, 2010 at 2:55 pm
Interesting: A marketing effort for a OUSD High School.
Hope things work out to everyone’s benefit. Neighborhood schools were a nice thing to have.
It remains to be seen if OUSD can stay competitive with the Charters. Or if they even want to.
July 23rd, 2010 at 3:44 pm
Indeed, neighborhood schools are splendid. I, too, hope that this will work out.
I have little faith in the district and the system at large, but great faith in individuals, committed parent groups, and good principal/staff leadership. Let’s hope the larger OUSD administration stays out of the way of this Consider Oakland High movement.
The whole issue, in my opinion, will be how to garner a critical mass from the surrounding communities that are clearly not attending Oakland High School currently.
July 23rd, 2010 at 4:41 pm
Hey, I just got an inspired thought! What if all of the Oakland kids making a positive contribution to Encinal came to Oakland High (or Tech or Skyline). That’d probably help create the critical mass needed for a top school over here!
July 23rd, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Sounds very nice. But I’ll bet dollars to doughnuts that in 3 years time nothing will have changed. I’ve watched Oakland decline for the last 30 years.
If you really really want change, then we need serious reform. End tenure. Base teacher’s pay on student performance. Outsource janitors and all facilities service, or any nonacademic work. Allow principals to fire bad teachers instead of engaging in the dance of the lemons.
Then things could actually change. Check out what Michelle Rhee did today in Washington DC: she fired 5% of the teachers, who measured as utter failures on their performance scale, and warned 10% that they have one year to change or they’re out, too.
Do you really believe there is not a 15% incompetence rate among OUSD teachers?? Dream on. After all these years of not firing anyone, and year after year of dismal student performance…………
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:11 pm
I am the Glenview resident who created the Consider Oakland High group (a Yahoo listserve at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConsiderOaklandHigh/), and organized the house meeting this past week with Principal Alicia Romero and five of her staff members. In May, I toured the school unannounced with two of my neighbors, all of us parents of children attending Glenview ES and Edna Brewer MS. We were pleasantly surprised by everything we saw and learned that day–a principal who greeted us warmly, an entry wall listing the many students going to a wide variety of colleges, renovations and new construction, engaged classes, teachers who talked about how they engaged all learners, and very amiable student guides. This led to my meeting with the Principal to plan the house meeting, gathering advance questions from the 18 parents who decided to attend, and letting the Principal and staff get a chance to answer those questions frankly. The discussion is just beginning, and you are welcome to join the Yahoo group if interested in future events. For me personally, this was a way to remove the unconscious biases I had about the school. Not knowing anyone who goes there and having no first hand information, it was easier to think badly of the school based on a few fleeting glances at students on the street or the bus (who may not even attend OHigh). It is my hope that other parents who have not considered Oakland High an option become open to learning more about this school, and that ultimately many of us choose to have our students attend. Karen Cohn
July 23rd, 2010 at 10:39 pm
Good luck with your group. Karen, what you found sounds encouraging. I applaud your effort to learn more about OHigh and to make an informed decision when the time comes. I hope that there are others like you who are willing to make a difference.
I fully agree with Oakey. At my child’s school there is at least one very incompetent teacher that is there year after year. Everyone dreads having their kid end up in that class. It’s sad that our otherwise wonderful school community is saddled with this mess when there are clearly many qualified and unemployed teachers looking for work. Should be merit-based all the way. Teachers, welcome to the real world!
I wish Oakland would create a magnet middle and high school for high-performing, smart kids all over the city. There is such a flight to private schools or better performing public schools districts that occurs after fifth grade from the hills elementary schools. Many of these families would stay with OUSD if they were comfortable with their options.
As for me, there seems to be many excellent classes and teachers at some of the middle and high schools but I just don’t know if these schools would be a fit for my child. I’m concerned that my child will be in with kids who really aren’t there to learn and get ahead. I’ve heard there are so many distracting, troublesome kids at our secondary schools and dealing with them takes away valuable teaching time from the serious students. Some of my neighbors tell me that their secondary school kids don’t feel safe at their schools. That’s worrisome.
July 23rd, 2010 at 11:00 pm
Karen
Been there! Wait until the year starts and the program begins to unfold. You will will see that your fearles leader will bow to politics that will make excuses for some of the segments of the school that will make your childs life miserable.
How many of the students who go to college finish? You would think that this is the most important question however you will soon find yourself asking , why did I send my kid to this gladiator zone!
This is a great try in bad fiscal times when parents cannot afford privates.
My son graduated from a charter school after the experience and is in UCLA, more importantly alive! You will see what I mean.
I truly wish you the best from one parent to another- Good Luck!
July 24th, 2010 at 1:14 am
I attended the Consider OHigh meeting this past Tuesday and was one of the parents that accompanied Karen on a tour of the school recently. I am very pleased with what is happening at this school. There is widespread construction going on to give this campus a huge facelift, a brand new building with new science labs and computer labs, a remodeled main building, library and bathrooms, revamped exterior and entrances to the school and new landscaping. New beginning engineering classes to begin this coming year and more to be added the following year. Besides what is new, there are successful programs still operating there – the environmental sciences academy and the visual arts academy. The school has a really nice feeling to it. Calm and well-managed. The new principal, Alicia Romero, is hard working, experienced, committed and well-liked and supported by her staff and teachers (with an average of 13 year teaching experience among them). I was one of the original Consider Glenview members 9 years ago. People were skeptical and negative about Glenview back then. It’s hard to imagine that now. The same is true with Edna Brewer. Unlike Oakey above, i think change can happen. I’ve seen it happen (and helped to make some of it happen myself). Change is most certainly happening at OHigh. I encourage anyone who is interested or curious to take a look.
July 24th, 2010 at 8:37 am
I am the other half of the terikaren equation, and I’d like to address several comments above. First, Sue, I’m sorry your experience, wherever it was, did not end up being positive. But that is not a reason to condemn other people’s attempts to find a comprehensive public high school other than Tech or Skyline to attend that is within an easy walking distance for many kids. I do believe change can happen, and I have seen it happen in other schools. Ultimately, change happens when you have willing families, a dynamic principal and school leadership and dedicated parents. Oakland High seems to have the last two criteria. So I’m willing to place my bets that the school will only get better. We have one year before our older child goes to high school, and we’re hoping that O High will be a good fit for him and for us.
Hill Parent–Before you close the door on any public middle or high school, I would encourage you to visit the schools during the school day. You might be surprised at what you see. There are many reasons why people leave public schools and go to private, and I don’t believe in second guessing a parent’s decision on what’s best for their child. But I do believe that there is a lot of unconscious bias out there, and many middle class white families approach Oakland public schools with fear but don’t want to necessarily admit it. I have often felt when having discussions with parents, that the elephant in the living room–that being all the kids of color and the lower socio-economic status of many students–is not addressed. Both of my children and my wife and I have enriched our lives by being in schools where the people don’t all look like us or reflect our class background.
July 24th, 2010 at 8:52 am
I need to make a correction to my post. I meant to say dedicated teachers, and it seems that Oakland High has a very dedicated teaching staff.
Oakey, you say: If you really really want change, then we need serious reform. End tenure. Base teacher’s pay on student performance. Outsource janitors and all facilities service, or any nonacademic work. Allow principals to fire bad teachers instead of engaging in the dance of the lemons.
Education reform generally seems to be centered on teacher pay and job protection reform and not true educational reform, which would mean conducting schools very differently than the way we are doing it now. It is easy to play the blame the teachers game, but what Michelle Rhee is doing isn’t the best approach to educational reform. Her reform is really about breaking the union. I am a union supporter for many reasons, and I believe in tenure for many reasons. And I don’t believe in merit pay for many reasons.
Let’s start with tenure: veteran teachers cost more. In these cost cutting times, if there weren’t tenure, many districts would take the financially expedient course of eliminating the more expensive teachers who have been there the longest and hire new teachers. Currently, about 50% of new teachers leave within the first 5 years. When you have a school with revolving teachers, you don’t have mentors to help the new teachers, you don’t have institutional memory, and you don’t have the consistency and stability our students need for a quality education. Additionally, if you have a teacher who speaks out against administrative decisions or happens to not conform in some key way (maybe a lesbian or gay, maybe very progressive or very religious), that teacher has no job protection. Tenure does protect jobs for very good reasons. This is not to say that there aren’t teachers who need help to become better teachers or need to be removed from their positions. It can be done, but it means administrators need to be on the ball. How many adminstrators are regularly observing and evaluating teachers? I know it doesn’t happen to the degree that it should. (There are many reasons why, ranging from laziness, to not knowing what to look for to time being spent at district meetings and filling out NCLB paperwork). Nevertheless, there are provisions (and a teacher doesn’t have to commit a crime) to remove a teacher from their position if they are first given the opportunities, coaching, training, etc., necessary to improve.
As for merit pay, on what would we base this? Simply on test scores? Many teachers teach curriculum that isn’t tested. Does that mean that elective and PE teachers aren’t eligible for pay raises? How about 6th and 7th grade history teachers because history isn’t tested in those grades? Or should we just test kids every year on every subject? What about a class with a higher number of English Language Learners? Generally speaking, ELL students often have difficulty passing the Star test in Language Arts if they haven’t been in this country for very long. Should that teacher be penalized even though her students are taking a comprehensive test in a language they aren’t yet fluent in?
These are all questions that merit pay promoters never answer. I’m curious to know what you think, Oakey.
July 24th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Well said, Teri.
My wife taught at Oakland High for 41 years (and also graduated from there). She regularly hears from former students who have graduated from college and have gone on to successful careers, including one who is now teaching at Oakland High.
July 24th, 2010 at 12:31 pm
Karen and Teri,
I think you are completely correct about unconscious bias playing a role in why we don’t consider some schools, but I would also add that we avoid schools based on our conscious biases.
It is difficult to send your child to a school where none of their closest middle school peers will go, or to a school that you never hear talked about on the soccer field or in curbside conversations with your neighbors. It is hard for parents to consider a school where there is only a handful of kids (or less) that look like their child or come from the same socio-economic background. Besides safety and academics, I want to know that my child will fit in and feel comfortable, because issues of identity and belonging are a major part of adolescent development.
I’ve got to admit that I am more of a follower than an initiator, so I was able to take the leap to Brewer and am now considering Tech, but I will keep my mind open to OHigh. Regardless, I truly admire those who initiate ideas, and the idea of helping the wider community to think beyond our unconscious and conscious biases so that we can begin to consider an improving school in our community is brilliant.
For Glenview parent and Teri/Karen, I’m curious to know, do you mean your children are going into 8th grade this year?
July 24th, 2010 at 12:55 pm
I’m an advocate of diversity too and I know that my child is benefitting from being exposed to people from all walks of life.
However, I doubt I will feel comfortable with an environment (if this were the case) where my children are the exception to the rule. We are a Caucasian, upper middle class family. I’ve looked at some of the demographics and I know that our demographic niche is not well represented at Oakland middle and high schools.
I have a neighborhood who attended Skyline a few years ago and in some cases she was the only Caucasian student in her classes (or one of very few). She felt alienated and uncomfortable in that situation. Aside from this, I remain very concerned about the level of disruption that I’ve heard about in classes from students who aren’t there to learn.
I’m going to keep an open mind when the time comes, but I’m already thinking that we’d be a better fit at a private school or in Piedmont/Lamorinda.
July 24th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
As a teacher at Bella Vista, one of the elementary schools close to Oakland High, and the sister of a former O High teacher (who has been away for a few years but longs to return, if there is every an opening on the staff), I am really heartened by this post and thread. I am also really impressed by the thoughtful comments of the Consider Oakland High group, and by their insight. My experiences in schools, both here and in the UK, have led me to the strong conviction that families make a HUGE difference. If you are willing to make a commitment to your neighborhood school, and work hard with other families and the staff at the school, I believe you can make a difference not only in your own child’s education but in the education that all students at that school receive. That is truly admirable. Thank you for your commitment to your children and to the other children of Oakland.
July 25th, 2010 at 9:40 am
As a teacher at Oakland High, I am curious what criteria parents use when choosing a school.
PS to Sue: What high school did your child attend, before he transferred to a charter?
July 25th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
I wanted to share the particular statistics about Oakland High that surprised me last year when they were posted on this blog. I pilfered them from someone else’s post, but I am assuming that they are accurate. From what I gather, the 2009-2010 stats are not available yet. I’m never totally sure what these stats actually mean, but the fact that Oakland High is roughly equivalent to Skyline and Tech does make me sit up and take notice.
2009 Adequate Yearly Progress (AYP) Report Mathematics Percent Proficient (Target 43.5%)
Schoolwide
- Skyline = 50.3
- Oakland Tech = 46.6
- Oakland High = 52.2
2009 API
Schoolwide
- Skyline = 667
- Oakland Tech = 643
- Oakland High = 633
Gordon, were you in attendance at the house meeting?
July 25th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Thanks, Nia, for posting this. It is interesting to see that there isn’t a huge discrepancy between Skyline, Oakland Tech and Oakland High. AYP, just as a clarification, relates to No Child Left Behind. API, (Academic Progress Index) is the ranking given by the state of California. A score of 800 is considered proficient.
You asked out kid’s grade, and our older son will be an 8th grader at Brewer next year, and our younger a 5th grader at Glenview. The same is true for Glenview Mom.
July 25th, 2010 at 8:09 pm
Per Nia’s post above, does that mean that roughly 50% of students at Skyline, Oakland Tech, and Oakland High are below grade level in mathematics?
July 25th, 2010 at 9:34 pm
-> Hills Parent 13: Be careful about assuming that a private school will be better. I know 2 families who have pulled their daughters out of a very PC private school (K-8) because their daughters were being mercilessly bullied and harassed while the school did nothing effective to stop it. Both girls were emotionally damaged from the experience. One is now at an Oakland public school and doing very well. She has found her niche. (She is white by the way.) Every parent (and child) must decide what the best school is for their particular child, sizing up academics, social environment, size of school, enrichment activities, the teachers, the principal and his/her staff and the campus itself. (Gordon: This goes to your question…) IMHO, a parent shouldn’t decide that a school won’t be a fit without having physically toured the school while students are in classes and having meaningful conversations with teachers, principal and students at the school.
July 25th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
OUSD Funemployed: A proficiency percentage for a high school indicates what percentage of 10th graders scored at an arbitrary level set as “proficient” by the State of California on the High School Exit Exam. A “proficient” score is higher than the passing score required for high school graduation. At most grade levels, “proficient” was set at the level that only the highest third of the students scored at in the year before the level was set. So schools with a 50% proficiency rate have half their students scoring above the level that the highest third of students in the state scored at several years ago.
One should not equate a “proficiency” level with “grade level,” if by “grade level” one means the average achievement level of students in that grade. California schools as a whole have about 50% of their students “Proficient” which places all three of the schools in question at about the state average.
July 25th, 2010 at 10:17 pm
I should add, that looking at an average of the students at a school can be misleading. Oakland High, Skyline, and Tech all have students who are excelling in Advanced Placement Math courses, and they are going on to pursue degrees in sciences, business, and engineering at UC’s and other selective colleges.
July 25th, 2010 at 11:03 pm
Here in San Francisco, we’ve seen many schools rise in reputation after parent and community efforts — it can be done! I was deeply involved in working to improve the reputation and appeal of my kids’ middle school, Aptos (in SFUSD). Aptos was viewed as a “dirty and dangerous” “ghetto” school when my older started there in 2002. Now it’s considered on par with the top middle schools.
A good friend did the same kind of work on Balboa High School — a name that once (and not that long ago) made strong men faint. Now PRIVATE SCHOOL KIDS EAGERLY APPLY TO BALBOA. Yes, it’s true!
This 2004 Chronicle article both reflected and encouraged that effort at Balboa.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2004-03-12/bay-area/17415211_1_high-schools-high-performing-schools-lowly-freshmen
In spring 2003, there were mass protests by parents who wanted their kids to get into then-superstar Lincoln High School (which had 6 applicants for every opening) — and who refused to allow them to consider Balboa. That climate has completely evaporated — and Balboa’s API was a tiny 2 points behind Lincoln’s in the most recent testing.
And when I started my son at Aptos 8 years ago, Hoover Middle School was the shining star and people wondered how I could consider decrepit Aptos. But in 2009 testing, Aptos’ API was 824 to Hoover’s 820.
I’m not actually a big fan of all this competition, but I’m just sayin’. This has happened to school after school in San Francisco, and meanwhile, young parents no longer consider it a given that they’ll need to spend $20-$25K/year for their kids’ schooling. Parents who would automatically have gone private 15 years go are now seriously interested in SFUSD.
There’s no reason this can’t happen in Oakland too.
You can do it!
July 26th, 2010 at 12:20 am
Nia:
No, I was not at the meeting. Were there any teachers in attendance? I was under the impression that it was just administrators there, but that might just have been my assumption.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:04 am
Gordon, The Principal, two Assistant Principals, a Counselor, and two teachers were in attendance. The parents were quite impressed!
As to demographics, and comfort levels for white students being in a minority position at OHigh, I want to point out that about half the students at OHigh come from Brewer MS, so they were already the congenial classmates and peers of the white students there, who were 13% of the student population. Then at OHigh, that 13% white students mysteriously disappears (now 1%), and OHigh gains 13% more Asian students than Brewer MS. THe rest of the demographics at OHigh are very similar to Brewer. The other half of OHigh’s students come from Roosevelt MS, and that is the school where Cliff Hong, Brewer’s past Asst. Principal, is becoming the Principal this fall.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Gordon:
You asked about what criteria parents choose for high school. I would put my two sons in different high schools to meet their unique needs.
Son 1: Extremely advanced in math – got the prep book for the AP Geometry for fun when he was in 6th or 7th grade at the library and he scored 95% or so. He was doing algebra and abstract thinking about numbers in 3rd or 4th grade. My son would need math teachers at the college level or a school that would accommodate his taking math at a junior college or through Stanford’s EPGY program at the high school.
Son 2: Technologically gifted and has been writing computer code since early elementary school. His father’s company has called on him to solve computer problems at the job. He documents his work well (although his handwriting leaves a lot to be desired). So the high school for him – and we are currently looking for one – would have to advance these skills as well as the math and science that go with them.
While there is some truth that family income or wealth matters, our household income is about $60,000 a year and my husband has a high school diploma and I have some classes at the junior college. We just give our sons the chance to play at what they are good at. Oakland High did not have the advanced math my son needed and were not willing to make the needed modifications even with parent participation when he we were looking, and we did look at Oakland High.
My second son will need math at very high levels, and also computer science courses that are not graphic arts.
I am willing to look at Oakland High again to see if they can meet the needs of my younger son.
July 26th, 2010 at 9:35 am
“A ‘proficient’ score is higher than the passing score required for high school graduation.”
I would hope so… isn’t the high school exit exam based on material typically covered by the end of the eighth grade? Kids SHOULD be beyond this level by tenth grade, assuming they have made progress since eighth grade.
“At most grade levels, ‘proficient’ was set at the level that only the highest third of the students scored at in the year before the level was set.”
According to its website, the State Board of Education has established “proficient” as the desired achievement goal for all students. Are you suggesting that this goal is unrealistic and that having 50% of students achieve at basic or below is acceptable? Or are you saying that the results of these tests are completely meaningless and should be ignored entirely?
I’m just having a difficult time getting excited about the results listed above – especially in mathematics, where specific skills and concepts are tested (and where everyone involved in the process understands exactly what skills and concepts will be tested).
July 26th, 2010 at 10:26 am
Jenna:
OHigh offers AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics, and we certainly have many kids who take classes at local community colleges, so it sounds like you were not given correct information. You should probably insist on talking to Mr. Padilla, the head counselor. He is very helpful.
July 26th, 2010 at 10:37 am
OUSD Funemployed:
My understanding is that the requirement of 100 percent proficiency comes from No Child Left Behind, and that NCLB leaves it up to each state to define “proficient.”
It is also my understanding that California has set a relatively high standard for “proficiency,” compared to other states. Here is a story on that: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2007/10/18/20587/no-child-left-behind-dilemma-what.html
As for whether the goal is unrealistic, well, is it realistic that every student in my class will earn at least a C? If my standards are high, probably — if C = average, then some kids have to be below average, don’t they?
July 26th, 2010 at 10:42 am
OUSD Funemployed,
I hope that this is not a case of blind leading the blind, because I am in no way an expert about what ‘proficient’ actually measures. However, I just looked at the stats for Albany High, a local-ish high school, that has an API of 806 and boasts that 97% of its students go on to college. I wanted to see how a more ‘successful’ school would compare in its math proficiency score, because,like you, I want to understand its significance. Albany High school’s score has been successively; 54%, 59% and last year was 63% proficient or above in math. They reported that the statewide score for math proficiency is only 46%. For me, these stats put Oakland High’s 52% or above proficient in a somewhat better light, particularly given the demographics of O High.
As background, Albany High reports that only 13% of its student body is socio-economically disadvantaged. That school is 35% white, 39% asian, 9% african american, and 14% latino.
July 26th, 2010 at 11:29 am
My child attended Skyline. I wanted to truly believe that Skyline would be a good school, however, I think I, as many of parents who I have spoken with, were duped by the location.
My son was assaulted in the bathroom and then again on the bus by students who openly smoked marijuana at the bust stop. They stole my sons Ipod and backpack.
Other student stood by, and sadly, my son said many laughed at him.
Now I know this is not Oakland High, but the OUSd Central Office and leadership response was amazing too me. The called the Administrator at the time (Mr. Sye) who said he would look into the matter. He did, his conclusion- they were not Skyline students. BUT- 2 of the kids were in my sons classes.
Their resposne- he must be making a mistake. Then they said this was a matter with AC Transit police!
Look- I care about diversity, I have lived in Oakland for over 25 years, and care about public schools- however, I am not going to risk my kids life for the sake of values!
My son graduated from a charter high school ( I will not state name cause its funny the animosity towards charters!) but he was challenged, took Honors courses (he never recieved at Skyline) and ended up with an acceptance To Ucla.
To put it bluntly- the powers that be at OUSD will tolerate these kinds of behavior because honestly, they are trained to focus on the deviants by making constant excuses or avoidance.
Dont expect a magic wand to be used in these schools! My advice, drop off and pick up your kids, visit the classes, and make sure you get into higher classes (if they are available). After that- god bless you.
As for me-Im not sending my 2 youngest to OUSd any longer, (1 private and 1 charter).
By the way- my daughter attends private school with kids from a few Alameda and Oakland administrators who do not trust their respective systems for their children yet expect us to do so blundly.
Good Luck!
July 26th, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Sue:
I certainly cannot disagree that there are many people in education who are more interested in making excuses for student misbehavior than in finding solutions.
That being said, a large part of the responsibility for continued criminal activity in the schools lies with the OPD and the Alameda County District Attorneys’ Office. Your son was the victim of a crime (well, several). How often does the DA aggressively prosecute assaults or robberies that take place in or near schools? Not very often, it seems to me. Rather, they fob the job off on the schools, which are poorly equipped to handle them.
Moreover, OHigh is not Skyline; our demographics are very different, and every day after school there is at least one administrator and one security guard patrolling outside a the bus stop, and also where kids congregate to get picked up by parents.
July 26th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Nia, good job in finding the Albany data. I could not find the state proficiency level on California Department of Education website, but the 46% level you were told sounds about right.
OUSDFunemployed, you are correct that the State set the Proficiency level as goal for all students, but they also set a schedule for reaching that goal, and Oakland High is ahead of that goal on a school-wide basis. The goal was 43.5% and O High was at 52%.
As Mr. Danning pointed out, California has set a very high bar for students to be considered Proficient. My point is not that these tests are meaningless or should be ignored, but that they need to be fully understood to make good decisions based upon them.
July 26th, 2010 at 2:01 pm
I wanted to respond to a few points made about Skyline and about a white child being in the minority in a classroom situation. For the parent of the child who had such a negative experience at Skyline, I am very sorry. I have had two boys attend OUSD beginning in kindergarden, one graduated from Skyline and is now a junior at UCLA and the other will be a senior at Skyline. They are white and have not been harrassed or bothered in the manner descibed here. They have had excellent AP and honors classes and many teachers who pushed them to excel. From the time each started 9th grade, each has had classes in which they were the minority stdent-someimes they were the only white student in a class. We do not see this as a negative in fact we think it is one of the benefits of Skyline. It has broadened their understanding of the city where we live and given them the opportunity to be friends with kids of different backgrounds and, contrary to the belief of some, it has not come at the cost of their academics. Skyline or any public achool is not for everyone but I do think that it certain advantages that are too often overlooked.
July 26th, 2010 at 5:48 pm
I have observed that children and youth are much more comfortable with racial diversity than their parents. What makes parents uncomfortable may not make their kids feel that way — unless they pass that attitude on to them.
The three comprehensive OUSD high schools are large enough to have achievement tracking so UC bound kids will be in classes with other UC bound kids. At Tech, this means that the white kids will have classes with other white kids. Of course, there will be persons of color in those classes as well.
Standardized test results tend to correlate with SES. Thus, I would think the relevant question for parents who study test results is how kids do with similar demographics to theirs. For example, Oakland Tech is about 10% white, so those kids’ scores have a limited effect on overall scores. I would doubt if any are eligible for free or reduced cost lunch, given their addresses, but the official school low income percentage is about half. Also, I’m not sure that any are English Language Learners. Thus, the Great Schools web site reported that the school’s 2009 API score was 645, but the API score for white kids was a staggering 895. The CST results showed a similar gap.
The white Brewer kids have been going to Tech. But recently, the highest tier Tech classes have been overflowing with 38 kids to a class and the like, which leads to ineffective teaching, kids being turned away, and unhappy parents. However, with such a huge achievement gap, I can see that it would be a hard decision to create more top tier classes if it reduces resources at the bottom.
And for those who may think Piedmont and Piedmont High is the Be All and End All: I was just talking to the dad of a Piedmont High student. The pre-calculus teacher there has a poor reputation among the students, so his son and his friends have been scrambling this summer to find a community college alternative in order to avoid him.
O High sounds like it has a great admin staff in place, and Brewer parents are an energetic bunch. This is great news! The Paideia program drew us to Tech, but if O High has an equally compelling program, it would no doubt be a draw. Plus, I’m sure other families may be reluctant to consider Skyline as long as its leadership is so unstable.
July 26th, 2010 at 7:21 pm
Donna:
Alas, Oakland High does not have a program that is in the same league as Tech’s Paedeia program; in fact, as far as I know, no school in Oakland has a program that compares.
July 26th, 2010 at 8:15 pm
Gordon: With a program as successful as Paedeia, what have been the impediments to other high schools starting similar programs?
July 26th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Glenview Mom:
I have never heard of anyone even trying to create something similar; it takes people with vision, who are willing and able to work hard, and who have the support of administrators who are willing to step up when needed. That’s a tall order. Plus, Maryann Wolfe, who runs the program, has an uncanny knack for finding good teachers, which helps a lot. But, it all starts with vision, and a willingness not to be satisfied with the status quo, or with mediocrity. Heck, at the very least, it takes an ability to recognize when the status quo IS mediocre, which ability can often be in short supply.
July 27th, 2010 at 8:00 am
Encinal High is an open enrollment school in Alameda with many Oakland kids – compare to posted stats on Oakland schools (see post #16)
2009 State API 747
Statewide rank 6
Similar School rank 9
Newsweek Magazine in 2010 ranked Encinal in the top 3% of all schools in the nation based on its Advanced Placement program (11 AP courses offered)
Top drama, JROTC, football (NCS champions in 2008)and baseball teams
Famous alums: Jimmy Rollins, Dontrelle Willis
Ethnic mix – 23% African American, 25% Asian, 12% Filipino, 17% Hispanic, 16% Caucasian
48% free and reduced lunch
Total enrollment = 1100
10 minutes from OHigh
July 27th, 2010 at 8:31 am
Donna,
Recently I have heard several bloggers suggest, or more frankly state, that the most solicited programs at Tech (Paedeia and Engineering)have had to turn kids away. Everything you said about oversubscribed classes, limits on how many kids can get into those programs and the lack of resources to enlarge these coveted programs, make complete sense, particularly in the climate of dwindling resources. However, I want to make sure that I am really understanding people’s recent experience.
Specifically, are you afraid that there might be limits on how many students can participate in Paedeia and Engineering, or have there already been limits?
I’d love to hear from any Tech parents about their experience recently (good and bad) regarding quality of these programs and difficulty participating. Many people are probably banking on the idea of going to Tech specifically for these programs, and might want to set their sights elsewhere if it were not readily available to their child. For me, this would be a major factor to stay closer to home, and would certainly further raise my interest in OHigh.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:38 am
Skyline parents have asked for a Paedeia type academy at the school but have not been able to make any progress. Having said that, AP World History and Honors Biology and Honors Math Ananlysis are available to 10th graders at Skyline and given the number of available AP and Honors classes in the 11th and 12 grades there is little difference between Skyline and the Paedeia program, in terms of the academic challenges, once a student reaches junior year.
July 27th, 2010 at 10:49 am
Nia and Donna:
I was told a few weeks ago by one of the teachers in Tech’s Paedeia program that they plan to expand it, in order to accommodate increased demand. But I don’t know any details
July 27th, 2010 at 11:35 am
For parents interested in higher-level courses, please refer to the Oakland High website at http://ousdhs.ousd.k12.ca.us/oaklandhigh/site/default.asp for a list of AP offerings. In addition, it should be noted that in these tough economic times, Oakland High continues to boast a large array of high-quality elective courses including Journalism, Yearbook, Psychology, and Leadership, and very active clubs and sports teams. Students also are given a wider-than-average number of options in PE courses in which swimming, dance, yoga, and JROTC supplement the usual offerings. It is the definition of a “comprehensive” high school.
Every school has its share of knuckleheads and troublemakers. It was the same in our day. Danning is correct in stipulating that it is the response to those “disrupters” that is most important, and Oakland High does a very good job of maintaining a positive, safe, and productive atmosphere.
All this as the numbers continue to go up and the physical facility improves. They’re doing something right and I applaud the Glenview parents for taking a second look!
July 27th, 2010 at 12:37 pm
RE: Oakland Tech
The Academies and Paideia programs start sophomore year. Thus, you enter without 100% knowing the future. My sense is that the real overcrowding started in only the last couple of years. If I were, I would mine the ex-Brewer grapevine; also see if families would send their younger kids there.
Ninth grade California Studies is the precursor to Paideia, and probably 90% or more of California Studies kids are recommended for Paideia. Basically, they have to be willing to do the work and gets As or Bs in the class. The California Studies teacher who probably assigns the most work is also a favorite, and kids who have substitute teachers will often cut that class to attend his class. Unlike most of the rest of the school, the California Studies kids are the ones enrolled in Biology 9 (vs. Physical Science) and in either Geometry or Algebra 2/Trig (vs. Algebra 1). Paideia kids who get less than a *C* at the semester will get kicked out; not sure about those with a *C*, but I’m pretty sure they would be skating on pretty thin ice. Classes have been pretty crowded, and I believe that teachers may have the right to limit class size to 30. Holding a discussion in a class of thirty-eight or thirty-nine is impossible, plus it is a fire hazard.
Mr. Merrill requires kids to take a test before admitting them to the Engineering Academy. They must also be enrolled in at least Geometry sophomore year, although I heard a rumor that he was going to change this to Algebra 2. He also establishes a wait list, and a few kids opt out before the school year, and many more drop out during the first term. Some drop out at the semester or after the first year. I don’t think that it is necessarily that they are doing poorly, but rather they find that they just aren’t interested. My daughter was wait listed to #15, and I understand she could have entered the program early in the year, but by then she had changed her mind. Since Mr. Merrill IS the engineering program, he has only two tenth grade sections.
The Health Academy requires an application and interview, and last year turned down maybe a handful of kids. I understand last year it turned down quite a few kids. 20? 30? 40? The influx may have come from those turned down from the Engineering Academy. There are more Health Academy sections, probably three or four. I do not know the criteria for acceptance, but the Health Academy teachers may be able to explain. The three I have met seem friendly and truly seem to love the kids. One is a union negotiator, so will probably be pretty busy this fall.
Quite a few Paideia kids are not in any academy at all, and that works for them. They took AP Biology sophomore year and are headed for other AP/Honors classes. Also, Paideia kids who take Physiology and Physiology Lab as sophomores don’t really take other classes with Health Academy kids.
Tech also has Ice Sports as a PE class: Ice hockey, figure skating, and broom ball. It starts before regular *A* period, but most of these teens manage to make it. Donations from Oakland firefighters helped to make this class possible.
The Jack London Aquatic Center (JLAC) offers transportation after school to Tech and Skyline students for low cost rowing (crew) and will teach kids how to swim at the pool near Tech. It is mostly girls, but a few boys participate.
Finally, as far as I can figure out, some internship and similar opportunities are only offered to Oakland public/charter school kids. This summer, my daughter is participating in a Kaiser Permanente paid internship in its regional business office and working for one of the top executives. Last night, she spent over three hours preparing a Powerpoint-type presentation to deliver to a dozen regional directors today. Last summer, four rising freshmen last year got paid jobs at the Marine Mammal Center, and the Center scheduled them so they could carpool.
Tech is not perfect; no school is. The quality of teachers in some departments is very uneven, so it can be luck of the draw with some classes. Science is probably the strongest department across the board; the chemistry teacher is up for some type of award this year.
Finally, if your student might be tempted to skip school, Tech is not the place to send him or her. Temptation is too close for those underdeveloped frontal lobes. The campus is open at lunch, and even at other times it is not too hard to escape. (Kids spend their allowance at Bakesale Betty’s!)
I would research all three comprehensive OUSD high schools and take those test scores with a grain of salt. Keep in mind that a lot of kids blow them off because they *don’t count* (i.e., don’t make a difference in their grades or whether they graduate), and often the proctoring is less than stellar. I have been researching colleges lately, and an admissions officer or probably a professor said he liked kids who were the first ones in their family to attend college because they were the one who had the fire in their belly. You are more likely to find kids like that in public high schools. . .
Hope this helps.
July 27th, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Donna: Interesting post. Do you have the gender and racial breakdowns of these schools?
July 27th, 2010 at 2:20 pm
Donna:
Does Tech still have an open campus at lunch? My understanding was that the District was implementing a “closed campus at lunch”‘ policy — Oakland High was given a deferral until our construction is done, since much of our basketball courts recreation facilities being used for temporary classrooms.
July 27th, 2010 at 6:49 pm
Nextset: Not sure I understand your question. Greatschools.org and the official Calif. web site provides breakdowns unless the group is under 10%.
As to the Tech Academies: I believe the Engineering Academy is over 50% boys, but not by much. On the Tech web site, check out “Results of the 2010 Engineering Bridge Competition.” View a lot of the 50+ photos; if you stop too soon you can get the impression that the Engineering Academy is mostly Asian boys because a group of them are standing together. The Health Academy has a lot more African Americans; not sure about the gender mix.
Gordon: I know a rumor was floating around last year that Tech was going to phase in a closed campus at lunch, or not let the freshmen go off campus. Since the school was not built with a closed campus in mind, I don’t know if it is really feasible, especially if you don’t let kids eat on the front lawn. The school is really quite a sieve.
July 27th, 2010 at 7:59 pm
Correction: I was just told that the Engineering Academy is 50% girls, and that a lot more kids were turned down for Paideia this year. Tech is a growing school, not a shrinking one in OUSD.
July 27th, 2010 at 9:09 pm
Here’s a link that everyone should look at so you can get a comparison of the score cards of the three comprehensive high schools:
http://publicportal.ousd.k12.ca.us/19941091174536337/site/default.asp
It’s very easy to navigate and very enlightening. I found it particularly interesting to compare not only the high schools but the elementary schools that are feeders into Brewer and then in Oakland High.
Also, while I’m at it, if you want to try to join the Consider Oakland High yahoo group, here is the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ConsiderOaklandHigh/ If that doesn’t work, you can let us know here and we’ll add you.
Karen posted a lot of other excellent links on that page.
One last thing, after really comparing the three schools, we really aren’t sure why more middle class parents (regardless of ethnic/racial identity) aren’t enrolling their kids in Oakland High. We wonder if it’s because Oakland High hasn’t had the kind of curb appeal that Tech has. But with the new construction, it will be a really nice looking school. Also, its entrance on MacArthur Blvd is easy to overlook since you only drive by it if you happen to live in the Haddon Hill neighborhood.
July 28th, 2010 at 12:37 am
Re: why more middle class parents aren’t enrolling their kids in Oakland High, surely it has something to do with the fact that OHigh, unlike Skyline and Tech, has essentially zero white kids? The latest state statistics say we had 13, which seems a bit high. I don’t think I’ve had 13 white kids in my classes in 15 years.
July 28th, 2010 at 6:54 am
To Hills Parent 13,
If you are an upper middle class white family, you will definitely see your demographic represented at Montera Middle School, and at Oakland Tech and Skyline.
July 28th, 2010 at 1:34 pm
Re. Post #48: why more middle class parents aren’t enrolling their kids in Oakland High.
I’m sure that the answer to this question is multifactorial, and will be somewhat different for each family. But for me, one of the main reasons I had not considered Oakland High is because of my perception that nobody else in my/my child’s peer group was considering Oakland High. It was less about what the school looked like or the scores (because I knew that the scores were similar for Tech, Skyline and OHigh) and more akin to ‘brand recognition’, or that little thing we try to talk to our kids about, peer pressure.
Tech has ‘brand recognition’ now and is an accepted choice for the middle class, especially the middle/upper middle class from Brewer. Even some families from privates consider Tech and have sent their children there.
Once a school is labled as ‘acceptable’ by a few of my percieved peers, then I can usually get on board as an ‘early adopter’. In essence, if it is good enough for your kids, then I assume it’s probably good enough for mine. Until then, it remains out of my comfort level.
Undoubtedly, this conversation and the yahoo group that has formed has shifted me all the way from ‘not even considering’ to ‘interested and will not rule out’ Oakland High. That’s a huge shift in a very short time. I’d love to hear other responses to Teri’s question.
July 28th, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Nia, I get what you are saying, but I would probably have to see the “tipping point” before committing my child to a school that I was not sure about – be it socially and/or academically. Once it became “acceptable”, I too would be much more apt to jump on board.
Several years ago we almost bought a house within the Glenview elem school boundaries. At the time, ten years ago, this school didn’t seem like it would be a fit for our child, who was a baby at the time. I thought “if we buy this house, we’ll have to move again in a few years”. Fast forward five year from that time and suddenly Glenview had morphed into a good school. Not as good as some of the hills schools (test score wise) but up and coming and a solid choice. It’s continued to improve since that time. Glenview can make this change because much of their enrollment area encompasses nice neighborhoods and houses – so when the neighborhood kids start to attend, things got better.
For the middle and high schools, the catchment area for enrollment is much higher. Because most of the schools encompass lower socio-economic neighborhoods, encompassing families who are less able help improve the school (with donations and/or volunteer hours), I just wonder how much difference a few people or even a couple dozen families can make.
As an example, I have a couple friends who live within the boundaries of Bret Harte and their children have had really mixed experiences at that school. I looked up the demographics and saw that most of the kids are lower socio-economic. In addition, white children make up about 5% of the population, as I recall. I feel like my family would be completely out of place at a school like that. Someone else said on this thread that they were fine (or even happy) that sometimes their child was the only white kid in the class. That’s out of my comfort zone. I’m glad my children have friends of many colors, but I think it’s also important to have peers within their same race and/or socio-economic background.
I still wish Oakland would have a high performing magnet school for middle school and/or high school that could attract motivated kids from all over the city. I think what’s happening at Tech is awesome, but as word spreads about this option, it sounds like more and more kids won’t get in. Plus, if the programs start in 10th grade, what if you commit to the school and then your child doesn’t get a spot in one of the programs/academies? There is an element of risk that I would prefer to avoid.
July 28th, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Montclair Mom:
I would be hesitant to equate the availability of numerous AP classes to an integrated program like Paedeia, because:
1. Some AP classes are AP in name only (though I have no idea whether that is true at Skyline);
2. Some honors classes are as rigorous, or more rigorous, than AP classes (eg: Tech’s Paedeia World History);
3. AP is NOT a unified program, in which classes are coordinated with one another and kids follow a vertical sequence. For example, the expectations for writing in AP World History are completely different from those in AP US History, let alone in AP English.
July 28th, 2010 at 4:11 pm
Having had two students experience numerous AP and honors classes at Skyline I can assure you that the AP and honors classes are in fact quite rigorous. The quality of the AP classes is borne out by the scores on the exams-last year Skyline had the most AP Scholars (per the college Board) of any high school in the district. I understand that some people value the integrated program at Tech and for those parents Tech is the right school. My point was that for a motivated student the academic challange is equally available at Skyline.
July 28th, 2010 at 5:38 pm
Montclair Mom:
I’m not sure it is a matter of preference; an integrated program is better for student achievement than one in which each teacher does his/her own thing, whether it is an academically enriched program, a special ed program, an art program, or whatever. And, for all I know, Skyline’s AP teacher work together closely and integrate their curriculum. My basic point was that parents should look beyond mere numbers of AP classes, and for that matter, scores.
By the way, Skyline’s website has a comparison of the 3 schools here:
http://www.skylinehs.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=76373&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=145212
July 28th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
I agree that a parent needs to look beyond the numbers. One of the reasons we chose Skyline rather than Tech was that we wanted our kids to be in classes with a variety of kids from all backgrounds and felt that that Skyline would better serve that end. So far their academic achievement hasn’t suffered. I think parents need to look at all of the options and make their decision.
I applaud those parents who are looking at Oakland High. When are older son started at Skyline there was no “brand” attached to going there (I’m not sure there is one now)and many people really questioned our decision. But if you do your homework, like what you see and think your child would benefit from the experience (a big diverse public school is not for everyone)I encourage you to go with your gut and not your neighbors’ opinions. Good luck
July 28th, 2010 at 6:05 pm
O-High is an excellent community, with an excellent Art program. I was glad my daughter could attend there, instead of her home school (Skyline).
July 28th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Gordon, My impression is that Oakland High will be creating a cored program of History and Science. Can you speak about that? Also, I’ve heard that Paidea requires many hours of homework. Can a parent of a Paidea student speak about this? I’m not opposed to homework. (In fact, I do believe in it, especially at the middle and high school level and I believe it should be meaningful with a lot of reading and writing in history, english, and science, as well as some in math.) Also, I was under the impression that the music program at Oakland Tech isn’t as good as the one at Skyline. I do know that music isn’t being offered as a course next year at Oakland High, but that the principal has a solid commitment to bring it back for the following year. Since Brewer’s program is so strong and my son is in the band, I want to make sure that he will have the opportunity to play in the band if he so chooses. Can a Tech parent and a Skyline parent speak about the music programs there?
July 28th, 2010 at 10:11 pm
Teri:
I dont know a whole lot about the History/Science thing. I do know that it involves one 10th grade world history teacher and one 10th grade biology teacher, and that other schools are doing it as well, because those teachers are supposed to mentor teachers elsewhere. I believe that it involves project-based learning. I was under the impression that kids will be cored, or at least the teachers will work together on curriculum, but then someone downtown told me that he didn’t think that was the case. I also know that, unlike Paedeia, it is not designed for “advanced” kids, because those kids tend to take AP World History in 10th grade.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:22 am
Just for the record, I’d like people to know that the Consider Oakland High house meeting we held on July 20th with Principal Romero and five staff included parents of varied incomes, races, ethnicity, religion and sexual orientation. On this blog, we are reading about “comfort” issues that vary for each family. Not all white or middle class parents feel the same about those issues, or have had the same experiences. The comfort issues are about whether our students will feel self-conscious or be treated poorly due to being a white or (upper) middle class minority. Despite the legitimacy of wanting our students to feel safe and in an accepting environment, I have this plea for white families (like my own): I would like us to work at ending a very circular way of thinking, that is “we don’t go there because we don’t go there.” I am not asking parents to sacrifice their student’s safety or academic challenges, but instead asking us to try to see beyond the stigma that has been associated with Oakland High. Let’s see what’s really there.
Are there administrators, teachers and students we can feel good about? What do the core curriculum and electives have to offer? What to the facility and extra-curricular activities have to offer? Perhaps then families can make their decisions together with other families, and feel secure that their student will have the familiarity of some of their same-race and same-economic class friends and peers. Yesterday, I visited Ellis Island in NYC, a national park chronicling “the peopling” of the U.S. The scope of diversity on view there was breath-taking. It depicted an era when white people spent lots of energy distinguishing themselves from other types of white people. Our social contract around diversity is different now, but for the contract to work, we all must participate. So please commit to visiting Oakland High in the fall, and let’s review the school Scorecard to be issued in August with the 09-10 data, which represents Principal Romero’s first year at the school.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:26 am
Montclair Mom, out of 771 AP exams taken, only 37.6% passed and the number who got 4s or 5s was 41% of that 37.6. In many colleges, only a 4 or 5 counts except for foreign languages and certain English classes. What were the other 62.4 % doing in the AP classes if they couldn’t even score a 3? Is it true that anyone can take an AP class, there is no prerequisite such as a 3.5 overall GPA and an A in the previous year’s course? What were these kids doing in there?
July 29th, 2010 at 9:26 am
I cannot speak to Oakland Tech’s music program but the program at Skyline is excellent. The students can participate in Marching Band, Jazz Band, Orchestra and study guitar. The Jazz Band won first place in its division this year at the annual Reno Jazz Festival. Student can also participate in choir, study the piano or perform in the pit band for the spring musical production. If you would like to learn more, there is usually a fall preview night when the various classes are showcased.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:45 am
Karen Cohn: How did you like the Ellis Island museum? I think it is pretty amazing; I will be there with students in about a week.
Also, re: the Oakland HS report card that is due out in a week, please bear in mind that Ms. Romero was not appointed principal until August last year, which is too late to make most of the decisions that affect a school — the master schedule is set, new teachers have been hired, major budget decisions have been made, etc etc. So, in a sense, this upcoming year is Ms. Romero’s true first year.
Finally, if parents really want an idea of what OHS is like, they need to talk to students – and, not just students who are in leadership positions. And, of course, there shouldn’t be any administrators present.
July 29th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
My understanding is that a student does not have to have a specific grade in a previous class to take an AP class, only the willingness to do the work. I know that at some schools the Ap classes are be limited to those with specific grades in earlier classes but Skyline has decided to give all students the opportunity to challenge themselves. Some succeed but some do not but at leat they have had the chance to try.
July 29th, 2010 at 2:27 pm
This thread is very interesting. I have no children of my own, so I can’t be too judgmental about how much energy is going into choosing whether to take a chance with public schools. What I have been thinking, though is, “Wow, if I had $25,000 extra to send my child to a private school but also thought that public school MIGHT be a decent option and would give my child a chance to broaden his/her horizons with a more diverse set of classmates, why wouldn’t I send him/her to a public school and then use even 20 percent of that money to supplement his/her education with other experiences that might fill in any gaps?”
Now if safety is the concern, I guess you can’t buy safety. But to put school safety in perspective, I remember reading a few years back that there were two on-campus homicides in the entire state out of 6.5 million public school students. Neither of them were in Oakland.
July 29th, 2010 at 4:41 pm
To Danning:
Do you teach at Tech? I smell a bias …
July 29th, 2010 at 6:08 pm
O-High Fan:
No, I teach at Oakland High.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:14 pm
Montclair Mom:
The official district policy is: “All students who meet course prerequisites with the required “B” average, and have the required teacher recommendation shall have equal access to Advanced Placement courses.” BP 6141.5. But, not all board policies are followed to the letter at every school site.
July 29th, 2010 at 6:59 pm
I would add, if parents on this blog really want an idea of what OHS is like, they also need to hear from more than one teacher, not just teachers who are comfortable blogging. And, of course, there shouldn’t be any administrators present.
July 29th, 2010 at 8:01 pm
Gordon;
I am not a teacher like you, but I would hesitate to say that Tech’s sophomore World History class is as rigorous as an AP class — not that I have experience with AP classes! I believe Tech uses the same textbook as Skyline’s AP class, however. I think that the teachers say that for each period of Paideia, at least an hour of homework is required, so that the two periods junior year require two hours, and probably more if the student is in the section with AP U.S. History rather than Honors U.S. History. Paideia is three periods in senior year, with AP English and AP Government, so I would figure that there is commensurately more homework. Yes, the homework is significant, but I don’t see it as extraordinary. It is probably the amount that suburban and private schools require. You just can’t be a slacker.
Tech’s music program is very new. The band(?) practices during *A* period, and the choral program can best be described as nascent, and this coming year is the first time it is being offered for credit. Skyline is absolutely the best place to go for band; the choral program is another matter. I would go to Piedmont High or Acalanes High for choral programs. Better yet is Piedmont East Bay Children’s Choir (PEBCC) for after school choir with top quality conductors. Musicians, singers, and band/orchestra conductors cannot necessarily conduct choirs and teach vocal production. Also, pop music/musical theater singing uses the voice differently than choral singing or opera, so that is another thing to be aware of. (You can ruin your voice by belting.) A plurality of PEBCC kids are from Piedmont, but a lot are from Oakland and Berkeley, not to mention a few from Alameda and through the tunnel.
As to safety concerns: A kid can find trouble if he or she wants it — anywhere. Buses and certain bus stops can be a problem. You don’t sit at the back of a bus. If you are a girl, you don’t catch/meet the eye of an African American girl and then challenge her. Common sense stuff. Violence is more black on black — like what we read/see in the news. But within a school? Probably one of the safest places.
I have not heard of any racial harassment at Tech; I doubt this would happen at O-High or Skyline either. My daughter has reported across the board (all colors) anti-LGBT comments, however, even by kids who profess not to be anti-gay. Haven’t heard of any violence, tho’. Also, the student body president a couple of years ago I believe was bi, so actions don’t necessarily match words.
And I will say it once again: Aggregate test scores mean nothing. Also, they are not necessarily a predictor of how a particular child will do. I know of a number of parents who have sent a child to a school with excellent test scores. The kids did not magically become excellent students on the road to an Ivy League college. No, they remained unexceptional (okay, mediocre) students and were toward the bottom of the academic heap at those schools. Bright, motivated kids gravitate toward other bright motivated kids. I guess druggies find other druggies. How large those groups are depends on the school, but I have a feeling that all high schools have both groups.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:27 pm
This discussion is very interesting. I’m definitely in the camp of the unconscious bias against OHigh- if you could call it that, since it’s really never been on my radar at all quite frankly. But I will follow this closely especially since my family has benefited so much from the amazing parents at Glenview. My daughter has such a smart spunky group of friends there and it would be wonderful to watch them grow up together through high school.
July 29th, 2010 at 9:42 pm
Donna:
I am reasonably familiar with what is taught in Tech’s Paideia world history class, since have I worked closely with a couple of their teachers for the past 6 years or so, formulating the District’s writing assessment for world history. I’m also pretty familiar with what it taught in AP World nationwide, because I am on a list serve of AP World teachers, and we discuss curriculum, expectations, etc. Based on that, believe me, their Paideia world history class can more than hold its own with AP World (again, I have no knowledge of AP World at Skyline).
But your broader point about aggregate test scores is a good one. If i were a parent, I would try to figure out whether my child will be challenged by teachers. I would ask for samples of assignments, and rubrics, and types of assessments. Are all the tests multiple choice, or are students expected to write? If they write, how often, and on what sorts of prompts? In science, what sorts of labs do they do? Things of that sort.
July 29th, 2010 at 10:01 pm
Prospective parent:
You asked about AP pass rates, and what kids who scored under a 3 were doing in the class.
Nationwide, only about 1/2 of AP tests earn passing grades. In fact, I’m told that each test is more or less curved each year.
For example, here is the breakdown for the 2010 AP World History test:
Score 1 2 3 4 5
Percent of kids: 26.9 24.3 23.8 15.3 9.6
By the way, here are some samples of essay questions that have been asked in the past:
For the period from 1500 to 1830, compare North American racial ideologies and their effects on society with Latin American/Caribbean racial ideologies and their effects on society.
Analyze similarities and differences in methods of political control in TWO of the following empires in the Classical period.
Han China (206 B.C.E.–220 C.E.)
Mauryan/Gupta India (320 B.C.E.–550 C.E.)
Imperial Rome (31 B.C.E.–476 C.E.)
Compare the emergence of nation-states in nineteenth-century Latin America with the emergence of nation-states in ONE of the following regions in the twentieth century.
Sub-Saharan Africa
The Middle East
My point is that AP tests are HARD, and many of the AP students from Oakland (and most from Oakland High) are not native English speakers and have relatively poor reading and writing skills. So, they are not going to do well on many AP tests (even math and science tests require decent English to decipher the multiple choice tests) Yet, they are willing to work hard and receive poor grades for the first time in their lives, because they think they will learn more. So, anyhow, that’s why they are there.
July 30th, 2010 at 6:28 am
Prospective Parent: I agree with GDanning’s assessment of AP students. For me, the issue isn’t whether they pass the test with a 3, 4 or 5 or at all or that they must have a certain GPA. For me, if a student is willing to be in the class, do the work and and work hard, they have added to the class. In the district where I teach (not OUSD), our high school decided to get rid of all requirements for AP classes, except 1. Students must complete, at least for AP English, the summer reading and writing requirements. (I’m not sure about the other content areas.) They also eliminated Honors (not AP) classes. So they now have two tiers of classes: AP and Regular. Teachers are very excited by this prospect because they think it will offer students more opportunities. There are many reasons why students don’t pass the AP test (which have nothing to do with their ability or motivation) and some even choose to take the class and not the test. I think any student who wants to be pushed and challenged should be able to take the class.
July 30th, 2010 at 6:29 am
Gordon–What does it take to create a Paideia program at a school? Do you know? If parents really wanted something like that at Oakland High, do you think it would be possible?
July 30th, 2010 at 8:12 am
What an excellent and honest discussion about what really matters in choosing a school…But we need to clear up some issues on AP classes.
The College Board, which runs AP programs recommends that the classes be open to all – that is, that anyone can take the class. I applaud the schools that do so, but adequate support must be given to maximize the success rate. That means synchoronized honors classes in middle school, an honors, AVID program or study skills class in freshman year to identify and support kids who can step up, and after school academic programs especially geared for students who want to challenge themselves (not just remedial work). AP teachers must reach out to middle schools to support the efforts of students and teachers there to teach the analysis and synthesis of information so important in AP classes as opposed to rote memorization. AP teachers must regularly attend conferences, join AP listservs and continue to improve their skills – all supported by the District which gives them the time and money to do so.
Now here’s the bottom line. The pass rate on exams discussed at these schools indicates none of this is being done, because these pass rates are 20-30% below the national average. Many public schools with ELD students and low-socio-economic levels have higher pass rates than these schools. Check the Newsweek Magazine list of America’s top high schools and filter for those schools with high free/reduced lunch rates. Thus currently, whether it is at Skyline or Tech, these programs are not well thought out. This has nothing to do with the teachers not doing their best. I am sure they are. But a system must be in place to improve these scores, which are WAY lower than they should be. Yes it is great to challenge kids, but you must give them a fighting chance to compete. One should see a progression of higher pass rates in AP classes as the years go on – leading to very high pass rates in AP classes in Senior year AP exams. Remember that these exams are not free – $86 or subsidized by the state taxpayers. Thus if only 1/3 of the class gets it, then that is not money well spent especially if those scores have remained relatively unchanged over the last few years.
Having AP classes is a great thing for administrators to brag about, but having an AP “program” with passing rates to support the bragging gives kids a real chance.
July 30th, 2010 at 10:11 am
Gordon:
If a student takes an honors World History class, or an honors class of any kind, can he or she take the AP exam?
If the student does take the AP exam and scores a four or five (I am assuming here that the scale is 1 – 5 with five being the highest – you know what they say about assumptions) do they get the credit at the high school and college transfer level?
July 30th, 2010 at 10:15 am
Gordon:
One more question, if a student studies on his or her own – and I realize this is a stretch – and chooses to take an AP exam and passes with a 5 are they awarded school credit AND transfer credit for college?
July 30th, 2010 at 11:00 am
Teri: I dont know how to set up a Paidiea program specifically. I think their used to be a national center for it, back in the day, but I dont know if it still exists. Another option is the International Baccalaureate program, which is vastly superior to AP, because it is an integrated program, it requires student to write research papers, and it has no multiple choice tests (at least not in history). Unfortunately, it is vastly more expensive than AP (because it is expensive to grade all that writing). See http://www.ibo.org/. I know that Fresno High has it, and I think Berkeley High does, too, but I dont know how they pay for it [well, I know how Berkeley High does, because i am a Berkeley property taxpayer
]
Hot R: You are correct that Oakland does a poor job of preparing kids for AP – when kids walk into my AP World History class as sophomores, their skills are generally awfully low, and more important, they have clearly rarely been asked to analyze at more than a superficial level.
Jenna: Anyone can take an AP test if they are willing to pay the fee. As far as I know, colleges only look at the test scores — they don’t care about the class. However, not all universities give credit for AP scores, and some give credit for some tests but not others. However, kids cannot get high school credit for the test, at least not in public schools. And that is a very good thing, frankly (at least for non-math classes). By the way, it is entirely possible for a kid to study on his or her own and get a 5 – the tests tend to reward memorization of facts. I had a kid get a D in my AP World History class but a 5 on the AP test, because although as he put it, “I suck at writing essays,” he was a history buff and knew a lot of facts(he got a 780 out of 800 on the SAT II in World History, which is all multiple choice).
July 30th, 2010 at 11:03 am
PS to Teri: No program can be successful without buy-in from a committed core of teachers, and support from the administration. And, “support” often means making decisions about teaching schedules, room assignments, and the use of resources that might piss off other teachers. It means making the program a priority.
July 30th, 2010 at 6:10 pm
Several postings have struck me and are still rattling around in my brain. First, I agree with Hot R that this really has been an excellent and honest discussion about what matters to people in choosing a school. Second, I am impressed with all of the data sharing about our schools, AP classes, music programs, etc.
However, I keep coming back to Karen’s request that we work on ending our “we don’t go there, because we don’t go there” type of circular thinking. I truly admire the willingness to work towards moving beyond the unconscious/semi-conscious/conscious thoughts that keep people from choosing Oakland High, but I keep coming back to the fact that whites AND people of higher SES and incomes of any race/ethnicity, have voted with their feet and have clearly said, “we don’t go there, because we don’t go there.” I guess what I am saying is that I don’t think that most people will say “let me stop this circular thinking” and subsequently enroll their student in Oakland High. I think it really IS more about perception and comfort than almost anything else. Maybe part of what I’m saying is that if some of these views are actually unconscious then they operate outside of the realm of reason, and circular or not, they may continue to influence our choices even after we discover that the test scores are similar, and the AP classes are in place.
Don’t get me wrong, I am a true supporter of Oakland High gaining recognition and buy-in from the community. It’d be great for my kids, other kids, property values, etc. But I want to acknowledge how challenging this process may be. Caroline gave an example of a public high school in SF that was able to improve its reputation, but in that case the families were assigned to that school and did not choose it independently, at least in the beginning. Oakland High will have to rely on parents who have a choice, but are willing to give it a chance. Seems to me that that is a more difficult task. Only a portion of families from Crocker and Glenview are even choosing public schools at all, let alone schools where no one from their social peer group attends.
July 30th, 2010 at 7:55 pm
Hello all, I am the Band Director at Oakland Tech. All of our instrumental courses are offered during the regular school day. We have: Jazz Band, Orchestra, Guitar, Piano and starting next year (Concert Band). Our Choir class, directed by Susannah Wood, meets during ‘A’ Period. Also, this will be the first year of the (Performing Arts Academy) at Tech.
This past school year, our Jazz Band and Orchestra, represented Oakland Tech at adjudicated CMEA (California Music Educators Association) Festivals; receiving unanimous Excellent scores from the panels.
This year will be our 3rd year hosting the annual OUSD Jazz Festival.
Our Jazz Band will be hosting an evening of music at Yoshi’s, on April 11th, this year.
We’ve come a long, long, way in just four years.
Also, I can’t say enough about our Dance program and our Drama department (performing Hamlet in Scotland in a couple of weeks!)
We have a new website:
http://oaklandtech.com/staff/performingarts/music/
We will be adding performances on our calendar, throughout the school year. Please come join us at one of the many events during the year and support our young Musicians, Dancers and Actors!
David Byrd
July 30th, 2010 at 9:28 pm
This conversation reminds me of the discussion about whether to try Oakland Tech, a few years back. It may be well worth it to check out Oakland High; you pay for it with your taxes, and you can transfer if it doesn’t work. One of our daughters went to Berkeley High, the other to Tech. Our experience would not make the case that middle class white kids achieve more, nor that it is easy to know which families most support learning. I understand statistics, but on the micro-level things don’t sort out simply by “SES” or race or any other category. In New York City, our younger daughter’s extremely diverse group of East Bay friends– many on scholarships– prize close bonds formed during their Oakland public school years. A large group of Oakland kids seem to be doing very well at some excellent colleges.
July 30th, 2010 at 9:59 pm
We live in the attendance boundaries for Edna Brewer and Oakland High. Because our daughter will be in sixth grade next year we looked at Edna Brewer. Our daughter shadowed a student for a day and we visited multiple times to classrooms and to the PTA and Planning meetings. We chose another middle school. We will look at Oakland High School when our daughter is ending seventh grade and again at the beginning of eighth grade to determine a fit.
I would like to point out what we noticed about Edna Brewer:
1. Edna Brewer does not have students in Algebra in sixth grade. Our daughter offered to take all exams for the END OF ALGEBRA to show her competence, but she would not have been given the opportunity.
2. Geometry is not offered during the school day and not offered to students who have not completed algebra so we loop back to number 1.
3. While they offer Spanish, they do not allow students to take three years of Spanish because they don’t have the teachers or the curriculum. It is doubtful that a student would have two full years of Spanish for the same reason.
4. No other foreign languages are taught.
5. In the English Language Arts curriculum novels were used and students had a “fill in the blank” approach to worksheets. We expected students to be able to write a five paragraph essay from a point of view of a character in the novel or persuasion, or write something that is propaganda. This would be constant with the other middles schools, both public and private that we visited. This type of writing “would not be done in sixth grade” we were told by two different teachers.
6. Science reports were often written as bullet points and the vocabulary in science was very thin. I expected to see analysis of data from experiments with simple charts, graphs and variables. I also expected to see at least one scientific research project (not just a science fair trial) as our family had witnessed at other schools.
7. Social studies was similar. I expected students to be able to compare and contrast the societies of early India, Rome and China. Nearly every other school we visited had students working on these societies and analyzing what made them successful and what activities and ruling classes were their undoing. We did not see this type of analysis.
Our daughter is bright, capable, wants to learn deeply across the disciplines and is willing to work hard to achieve learning goals. She did not find a culture of strong academics and rigor at Edna Brewer.
When it comes to high school, she will have three years of academic rigor and a strong culture of foreign language, social science, comparative religion, art history, Earth, and biological sciences, the beginning of physics concepts and a basic chemistry foundation. When we come to Oakland High this is the rigor we are looking to see for her and the students that will be her peer group.
My daughter was horribly offended that during the break between classes when students were in the hallway, the “N” word was used and not one teacher or parent tried to stop it. Bit**, Ho, Faggot were also common. She is not what I would term as a goody two shoes, but she was very surprised that teachers did not stand up and say “Not in my school, that language is simply not acceptable in or near my class or in this school.” That environment was one of the factors in our decision.
I think what most parents want, and what we want, beyond what our daughter wants, is that we want her around students who behave, study, learn, respond to one another and accept responsibility for their learning in a way that is similar to her values and in a way that does not demean or disrespect.
July 31st, 2010 at 7:16 am
Catherine, Thank you for your lengthy comments and thoughts on Edna Brewer. I appreciate you taking the time to share your opinion.
My child is younger, so I haven’t been thru the experience of analysizing schools yet, but I’ve heard many parents tell me about similar things on a social level about Oakland middle schools (with reference to your second to last para). I wil not send my child to a school whether than kind of behavior and language is tolerated and/or part of the social culture. As far as the academics go, your post was also very enlightening on what is and isn’t offered. And clearly if the classes in middle school aren’t academically rigorous, then it follows that you are less likely to find a high-level academic environment at high school.
I’m curious if your daughter has been at a public school for elementary? Are you now going private for middle school? I’m considering moving to Piedmont or Lamorinda in hopes of finding a better social environment and more rigorous academics for my child when middle school aproaches.
July 31st, 2010 at 7:21 am
Whoops, sorry for the typos in the above posting. I’m typing too fast and not proof-reading enough!
As a side note, Katy, it would be nice if there was a spell checker or the ability to correct postings after they have been posted.
July 31st, 2010 at 7:30 am
Nia, I would suggest you ask for some insights from some of the Crocker parents who first organized around sending their kids to Brewer, when popular sentiment had been to avoid that school. Since we have a core group of Glenview parents who already had that experience of drawing in neighborhood families with Consider Glenview, we are already in agreement with each other to investigate what Oakland High has to offer us, and are not in that circular thinking pattern of -we don’t go there because we don’t go there. I do agree with you that people have to make a conscious choice about overcoming that way of thinking.
July 31st, 2010 at 7:48 am
Catherine:
I’ surprised (but only slightly) that they don’t have kids writing multi-paragraph essays in 6th grade, because the language arts standards call for it. I wouldn’t send my child there, either.
Re: language in schools, I virtually never hear “faggot” at the high school level. As for “nigga,” it is no longer offensive — it is not uncommon for Asian-American kids to call each other that, and no one objects, including African-American kids. “Bitch” and “ho” also seem to often be terms of endearment, at least in certain contexts. So, what you see as lax standards, I see as respecting kids, and showing a bit of tolerance for their foibles.
July 31st, 2010 at 7:58 am
Catherine:
Your post pointed out a very important factor in achievement – that kids do as their peers do. If as a parent, you can go into a school with a group of students who have similar backgrounds and aspirations, with parents to match, your child has a much higher chance of success. It is very difficult, but not impossible, to do this on your own. Don’t put the language deficiencies too much on teachers for controlling all the hallways. What about the parents who allow their kids to talk that way? And where were the administrators and hallway monitors?
Like it or not, this conversation has come down to race and socio-economic issues. Will a parent send their child to a non-White or lower socio-economic school as a social experiment? Most won’t. This is why OUSD is dying.
July 31st, 2010 at 8:14 am
It is safe to say that middle school students do pose social challenges that are specific to their adolescent development. Having said that, all schools should have expectations of their teachers and staff to enforce respectful behavior that excludes the type of name-calling that Catherine mentioned in her post. In fact, name-calling and other types of disrespectful language should have consequences and they should be enforced. Students should be aware of those consequences and they should know that they will be enforced. Many Brewer teachers and staff did get a training last school year called The Invisible Minority: Issues Concerning LGBT Students and Families, and it was well-received. Brewer also has an active GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance), which is a club for students. They have mental health support staff on contract, and they have peer mediation and a restorative justice program that deal with conflict resolution. In addition, a Brewer teacher started a mentoring program for struggling students which involves a number of Brewer teachers volunteering their time to work with individual students to help them be more successful.
One of the reasons that Brewer lacks some of the rigor that Catherine and most parents would like to see, including us, is that the school has over-relied on Teach for America for its teachers. The problem with Teach for America is that it requires people to make only a two-year commitment to teaching in urban or rural schools with higher rates of poverty, and trains them to become teachers while they are in the classroom teaching. Because they only make a two-year commitment (it is true that some decide to stay as teachers, but the vast majority leave after two or three years), there is a revolving door of teachers cycling in and out of schools like Edna Brewer. I am a middle school Language Arts and History teacher in Union City (New Haven Unified School District) and we do not have any Teach for America teachers there. What we do have is a stable, dedicated staff of teachers who have taught anywhere from 2 years to over 35 years. Sometimes there is the belief that new teachers are the best for a school because they bring in fresh ideas, can relate to the kids, and have enthusiasm. While this is certainly true to some extent, schools need a balance because new teachers need a lot of mentoring and guidance in classroom management and lesson planning. It is hard to develop rigorous curriculum if a teacher is planning day-by-day and barely keeping their head above the water–and that is more often than not the experience of new teachers. I have worked with many new teachers in my 21 years as a teacher, and I can tell you that teaching is a craft and like any craft, you get better at it over time, and committed teachers enjoy the challenges of growing and trying out new ideas.
In addition, Brewer has had 3 principals in 3 years and the last two were new to being principals. Brewer had a very strong principal for 5 years, but when she was promoted, the school lost its strong leader with a vision and someone who was experienced enough as a teacher to mentor new teachers. Also, assessment at Brewer has been used to identify students needing intervention because they are not proficient in their academic skills. But those assessments have not created opportunities for more rigor. When you combine this with a mostly new teaching staff, you will see that critical thinking and deeper analytical assignments don’t often occur. What Brewer needs, in particular, is a plan to not only retain teachers but to develop curriculum that imbeds higher order thinking within the assignments. Ongoing professional development has already begun for Language Arts of that nature.
But I would argue that just because it doesn’t happen in middle school doesn’t mean it can’t be happening at the high school level. Certainly at Oakland High, there is not a reliance on Teach for America. They have many experienced teachers with many years of teaching under their belts.
One last comment about Brewer, though. The thing Brewer has that is a huge draw for many families, including our own, is their music teacher, Zack Pitt-Smith. He offers exciting challenges to students in band, and has been instrumental in getting an experienced strings teacher hired to supplement his program. So although we’ve had mixed feelings about our son’s academic experience there (some of his teachers have really challenged him and others have not), we are very pleased with the band program and the P.E. program which he has greatly enjoyed and been challenged by. He did a lot more writing in 7th grade than in 6th grade Language Arts.
July 31st, 2010 at 10:54 am
Does O-High have, or will it be developing a formal shadow visit program? Tech has this, and I think it has contributed to its influx of middle class kids. The kids return home enthusiastic and assuage their parents’ fears. There is also an evening when prospective parents can meet and talk to teachers.
It is all about marketing and doing things to attract students the way the private schools do. . .
July 31st, 2010 at 11:20 am
In answer to the question about the elementary and middle school.
Both public schools.
Oakland Unified Public Elementary (non-charter).
Public middle school out of district through the laborious process of an inter-district transfer and appeal. Our daughter took Saturday language school for a language that used to be offered in Oakland, but is no longer offered. She will have seven periods a day with two electives, one of which will be foreign language all three years. We will have a long drive, or a BART/carpool for three years.
The logistics are nothing short of horrid. And as a family, we could not afford private school, could not agree on a religious school (affording it would have been another issue) and truly believe in public education.
We did look at Montera and the issues of rowdy behavior and language was much less. But we had a similar problem with Math, Science and Spanish. We looked at Bret Harte, which is similar to Edna Brewer without the stronger sixth grade sheltering.
I do believe that Oakland is improving. I also believe differently than Hot R in that I believe it is the responsibility of every parent, teacher, school worker and principal to provide the leadership and DEMAND respectful behavior with language that is appropriate for the job. Learning is the job of students.
July 31st, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Teri:
Slight correction: Oakland High has had quite a few Teach for America teachers over the past few years. Many to do not stay that long, but as a group they tend to be quite strong, and quite demanding, rigor-wise. Probably above average in both respects.
Re: the language issue: Some parents have expressed interrest in exposing their children to diverse experiences. That’s great, but people need to understand that that means more than kids learning to cook gumbo or to perform Cambodian dance. It also means exposure to ideas and mores that parents won’t like. Eg: It simply is not considered offensive to use the “n-word,” if it ends in an “a” rather than an “er.” Asian kids use it, African-American kids use it, and none of the kids is offended. (In contrast, homophobic sentiments are very rare at the HS level, I have found). Similarly, kids might be exposed to different political views – a school with a large number of African-American or Hispanic kids is a school where a lot of kids have traditional views re: abortion, and to a lesser extent, gay marriage.
And finally, a school that truly has an academic culture is a school which is open to the idea that sometimes, a teacher can be wrong, and that student ideas deserve respect. That inevitably must include what constitutes “acceptable” language (as opposed to language that causes harm or is disruptive).
July 31st, 2010 at 4:06 pm
PS: I tried to post similar comments earlier, but they didn’t show up. Now I see them posted with a note saying that they “are awaiting moderation.” Is there censorship on this site now, beause I spelled out the “n-word” in the previous posts (the one with an “a’)?
July 31st, 2010 at 4:51 pm
I wanted to speak to a few of the concerns about Edna Brewer as a parent whose child has attended for 2 full years. Certainly, I am aware of some of the issues of which Catherine speaks. However, our experience, while not perfect, has been quite a good fit overall.
First, it is true that there are a number of children who probably use offensive language as a part of their normal vocabulary (offensive to me, I should say), but there are also a large number of children at Edna Brewer who don’t. Here is where I really want to proclaim that my daughter and her friends aren’t involved ever and never will be, but as a parent I’ve been chagrinned and humbled too often to make such declarations! I can also understand the desire to shelter your child from being exposed to those words, unfortunately if you listen closely to the lyrics of many of the most popular tunes on the radio, you will find that popular culture is rife with misogynistic, homophobic, and hyper-sexualized reference. Maybe you will be able to create a milieu devoid of this element, but maybe not. What I have found equally important is how it is addressed. You are completely correct that the school itself should address this type of behavior in a swift and decisive way. That that has not occurred is something that Edna Brewer will need to continue to work on. Here is what my experience has been around the issue of offensive language, particularly homophobic language. In the sixth grade, a parent in my community caught wind of, alas, our own children engaging in use of the homophobic language. The result was an email by this parent to all of the parents of the kids in the larger group alerting them to this issue, and offering to host a discussion group around it. The discussion never took place en masse, but it did prompt ongoing discussion in our own home and I suspect many other homes. And if I am not mistaken, that parent in conjunction with others, helped to initiate the Gay Strait Alliance on our campus. Incidentally, again, this is where I feel fortunate to have a parent peer group that I can rely on and who might share some similar values.
On the issue of foreign language, I agree I wish it were more comprehensive. I really wanted my child to partake in French (not offered) or advanced Spanish all three years. However, this actually became a moot point for a huge number of the families (who otherwise might’ve really lobbied for language). The reason that it is not an issue is that only one elective is available during most semesters (due to core requirements for CA students, I think). Many students have flocked to the very successful band or orchestra and have forgone the option of foreign language, therefore, the lack of a rigorous language program at the school may not have been felt as acutely.
Finally, the school has been fairly solid for my child academically. I would agree that some classes really should be more challenging, and that there must be more focus on analytical skills, compare/contrast, and essay writing. However, between extracurriculars and the turmoil of adolescence, sometimes I feel that the level of challenge is as really as much as we can handle!
Further on the topic of academics, I have noticed that some of the posters (this thread and on previous threads) have children who are far more academically gifted than what I’d call the ‘normally bright kids’ or even more ‘normally gifted children’. I’d say these kids are probably really at the far, far right side of the normal bell curve (algebra 1 in 3rd grade). They will need accommodations in order to have their needs met, and sadly I can understand that they cannot find a fit at all schools. I’m impressed that they have given their local schools a fair shake. I wish there was more for them. On the other hand, I have spoken to a number of parents with academically gifted children (maybe not such far outliers on the bell curve) who have found Edna Brewer has worked well and were able to differentiate learning for their children.
July 31st, 2010 at 8:50 pm
Perhaps it is because of my daughter’s age (not yet hit full adolescence) , or maybe because she is an only child, or because we talk to her about the importance of the need to show respect for her mind and her body, but we have had the discussion about the music that Gordon has mentioned.
Our daughter began developing (physically and emotionally) early and we knew that we had a huge responsibility to help her see herself through the eyes of others. Together we looked at girls in magazines who were as developed as she was. Many of them were wearing skimpy tops or skimpy skirts. We asked if she saw a girl dressed the same way was there a bigger possibility that someone would be looking at her body or listening to what she had on her mind. We asked why she thought it was so.
We asked how she would feel if someone called her a “bitch” or “Ho” or some other name. She admitted that it would make her feel bad about herself and that she would be mad. We then asked why she would be listening to music where girls are called those names.
We know that at least some of the time she thinks about our discussions because we have heard her mention to our neighbor, an incoming 8th grade girl, that the music she listens to is not appropriate and that if she wants to play it she can but my daughter will go home and come back at a time when she is not listening to the music.
I understand what Nia says about developing adolescence and the pressure of school. Our daughter plays competitive soccer 10 months out of the year, so I understand competing needs for time and energy. However, I think that we can ask of our children to think about ways to help the environment, their friends and their community as well as work hard in school or we can say that with so much going on it’s okay to listen to music that is disrespectful to women, people of color, or our community. It all depends on your value system, the value system you want your children to hold as adolescence and adults and the value system that you want your children immersed in 6 -8 hours a day.
And to Nia’s point about the bell curve. Our daughter has tested and was accepted in the GATE program. We we asked for more challenging work at the elementary level because we looked at the writing and science as classroom work by friends in another district, we were told that she is extraordinary and that we might want to have her tested for IQ. We did, she is not well on the other side of the bell curve. Barely falls into the superior range. She is just a regular kid who LOVES to learn and incorporate what she learns into her life.
She has a large group of friends of nearly every ethnicity, African-American, African (recently immigrated), Central and South American, European, Muslim, Jewish and Christian.
I believe that tracking is wrong. I believe that high level classes should be open to all students being willing to do the work. But our middle schools in Oakland do not have the rigorous options that are commonplace in mainstream classrooms in many other districts. We have gutted foreign languages, drama, and shop classes from middle school. We have decided that all students should be given pre-written sentences in which they fill in blanks and we have said that it is okay that published work (after the pre-writing, editing and proofreading stages) contain grammatical errors including verb disagreement, punctuation errors and spelling errors that are consistent with what should have been learned in elementary school. We say that it is culture or English Language learning. But published work should have had these errors caught and corrected. That is what I found most offensive in looking at student work in Oakland Middle Schools. There seemed to be very little difference between pre-published work and published work.
If we want to have the vast majority of students who are at the top end of the middle of the spectrum of learners consider Oakland Middle and High Schools we must have these conversations in our homes, in our classrooms and in our after-school programs.
July 31st, 2010 at 8:53 pm
Correction: “NOT okay to listen to music that is disrespectful.”
August 1st, 2010 at 8:54 am
For any readers on this blog that would like to find out about the next Consider Oakland High house meeting (we’ll probably aim for the start of the school year), please send me your email address and I will send you an invite to the yahoo group so that you can be informed.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:43 am
Gordon:
I agree with you re the AP courses (other parents: google and see Race to Nowhere – the documentary). This may seem way out there, but how about scrapping all english/history AP courses at Oakland High in exchange for the International Baccalaureate program? I know students pay the college board to take their marathon memorization AP exams. Does the district and/or schools site also pay to offer these courses? Could scrapping them free up enough funds to offer the IB program?
August 1st, 2010 at 3:58 pm
Glenview Mom:
Well, costs to the school of AP is pretty low. We pay to send people for training (I just went – it was $750 for a week), but the tests cost the school only $10 each for low income kids, and I think nothing (??) for non-low income kids(the state pays the lion’s share of AP tests)
The state also pays for IB tests, I think, but there are many other costs. This site says IB costs an extra $30K per year http://blog.mlive.com/schoolzone/2009/10/ap_versus_ib.html
Of course, I am pretty sure we spend more than that for the prom (tho, it is really the kids who raise the money for prom; school money is not used at all, i dont think)
There are also start up costs. See page #19 here: http://www.gardencity.k12.ny.us/UserFiles/Servers/Server_879883/File/AP%20IB%20Committee%20Presentation%20-%20May%202009.pdf
But, it is a good program. The history courses, at least, are VASTLY superior to AP, in my opinion. Wikipedia has a good discussion of the program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IB_Diploma_Programme
August 1st, 2010 at 4:47 pm
AP exams are $86 apiece, or $5 if subsidized by the State of California for low-income/free/reduced lunch students If OUSD is charging $10 then where does the other $5 go? You can see the whole formula online. Here is part of it…
COST OF THE AP / IB EXAMS:
How much does an eligible student pay for each AP exam?
The CDE application for federal funds to support the AP/IB Test Fee Reimbursement Program states that eligible students will pay $5.00 per AP/IB exam and $5.00 per IB registration fee. Therefore, districts may collect only $5.00 for each AP/IB exam and each IB registration fee per student.
What is the school’s cost of the AP exam for eligible students? How much do I collect from the student?
The cost of the AP exam for eligible students is $56. The student pays $5.00; the CDE will reimburse the school $51.00. Please refer to the 2009-10 Fee Distribution Chart.
http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/gs/ps/2009-10apfaqs.asp
IB start up is WAY more expensive for teacher training and take additional teacher prep that no districts can afford now. Is it better? Reports go in both directions. Advanced Placement classes are the “language” of college admissions and gives lower socio-economic kids a fighting chance at college admissions.
And please, AP classes are not about “memorizing” information. Without analysis, synthesis and essay writing skills carefully developed by AP teachers the students have no chance of passing the exam.
August 1st, 2010 at 5:30 pm
Hot R:
I’ve been told by our AP coordinator that the state picks up all but $15 of the fee, and the school picks up $10, leaving $5 for the student to pay. Perhaps that is old information, and the state now picks up all but $5. Either way, our low income kids pay $5.
As for whether AP classes are about memorizing facts, well, I just got back from AP US History training, and all of the exemplars of “9″ essays were very very very heavy on facts, and very light on analysis — shockingly light, in fact. The basically read like regurgitations of the textbook. And 50% of the grade on the history exams (and, I believe, all of the others) is multiple choice, which tend to be very light on analytical questions. And, the formula for determining grades is such that a kid who aces the multiple choice can get a 5 even with mediocre essays — I am looking right now at the essays of a kid who got a 5 on the 2007 AP World exam. One essay is 5 paragraphs, one is 2 paragraphs, and one is 4 paragraphs, and all 3 are substantively only OK (though, to be fair, the questions that year were difficult — the nationwide mean score on one of them was 1.45 out of 9).
The AP history tests also have a “gotcha” quality to the essays — in AP World, the students must answer all three questions; in AP US, students must answer one, and then 2 of 4 choices. So if they didn’t memorize facts on those specific topics, they are out of luck (unless they can “BS” as well as one of my students in 2009)
In contrast, the IB history tests have no multiple choice, and give the student a wider range of question choices.
To be fair, AP is in the process of revamping their history tests to make the multiple choice more analytical, and also to get AP US and AP World history more on the same page, but time will tell how much will change.
But my main point is not that AP is bad, but that IB is better.
Also, old AP tests, including examples of good and not so good essays, are available here: http://apcentral.collegeboard.com/apc/public/exam/exam_questions/index.html
August 1st, 2010 at 10:53 pm
Reply to Donna re: <>
This post implies that the choral program at Skyline is not taught by a choral specialist, which incorrect. The Skyline choir teacher, Ms. Arretha Cooper, is a talented choral music specialist and pianist who trained at San Jose State under Dr. Charlene Archibeque.
August 2nd, 2010 at 5:38 am
FYI-Average years of teaching experience per site, from the 2008-09 Annual School Scorecards:
15.5 Glenview ES
16.6 Crocker Highlands ES
12.4 District-wide ES
10.2 Roosevelt MS
4.6 Brewer MS
7.7 District-wide MS
13.4 Oakland HS
16.0 Oakland Tech HS
13.1 Skyline HS
10.9 District-wide HS
August 2nd, 2010 at 5:14 pm
To clarify:
As the OHS Activities Director, I can attest that Oakland High (nor any other HS, to my knowledge) does not spend any school money on proms or dances. In fact, each class spends four years ferociously fund-raising to gather the funds necessary – which are considerably less each year than the 30k quoted above by one of my colleagues.
August 2nd, 2010 at 10:08 pm
This NYT article on IB programs catching on in US schools (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/03/education/03baccalaureate.html?_r=1) indicates that the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation funds the preparation of minority and low-income students to participate in IB. Perhaps there’s a way, if funding is available via grants, to fund IB while keeping AP. This would serve both students who learn best with a more memorization-based program and those that learn best with a more hands-on program. (I have two sons who are opposites in this regard.) I think broadening the programs offered to support different student learning styles would be a very positive step in the right direction. Just a thought.
August 2nd, 2010 at 11:03 pm
As a recent graduate of Oakland High (2008) and a current student at CAL, I have to say that this is very good to see such interest in my old high school.
From my personal experiences, I would say that Oakland High was a decent enough place to learn.
To preface, I was a pretty average student in terms of grades and did not hold any leadership positions.
Ok, let me talk about the teachers:
All the AP class teachers (I believe that the regular and honors class teachers are very much the same)are very supportive in and out of class time. They use to welcome question during class, between classes, and after school. Some teachers even hold additional review classes that(to my knowledge)that they don’t get paid for.
This list is in no way exclusive nor comprehensive but some of the teachers that were really helpful were:
Ted Harris and his preparation for the AP lit test study group( I am not sure if that is just a thing he did in 2007 because Oakland High didn’t have an AP English Literature class or if he still does it).
G. Danning was one teacher that I won’t forget. He was the first AP teacher I had ever had. Before entering his class in my sophomore year I didn’t have much difficulties in other classes. The difficulty level went up quite a bit, I found myself struggling with the schoolwork. Long story short, I ended his class with a C and a 3 but that little taste of what college would be like drove my interest in improving my skills. Despite my lackluster grades, Danning (he probably doesn’t remember this) repeatedly told me that I could do better. At one point, he directly told me that he felt my paper was a horrible effort on my part and he felt that I wrote it in an hour or two.
That kind of attention to writing style and the explanation of why he graded me this was was a much needed wake up call. He gave me a reason for the grade rather than just a grade to forget about.
And there are many other wonderful instructors. The teachers really shine the junior and senior year of high school with their support.
As for clubs and program, Oakland High has the Environmental Science Academy and VAAMP. ESA is for the students that wish to learn more about the environment and recycling. As for VAAMP, it is a program for students that want to learn about the visual arts.
Anyways, the clubs at the school are, other than the community service ones, fun places to be and learn new things.
All in all, I liked my experiences in Oakland High. As long as the student is serious about their own studies, getting into college should not be a problem.
August 3rd, 2010 at 9:29 am
Glenview Mom:
I know that there are many schools that have both AP and IB. However, I don’t think that they serve different groups of students. And I certainly dont think that they serve kids with different learning styles — I dont think IB can be described as particularly “hands on” based, for example. Both are supposed to be more analytical than the norm, but the AP tests, because of the way they are structured, tend to reward memorization of facts more than IB does.
And, really, the key difference between them is that IB is a unified program (kids can earn an “IB diploma,” they take a “Theory of Knowledge” class, they complete a 4000-word research paper, etc), whereas AP is more of a set of discrete, disconnected courses.
August 3rd, 2010 at 9:40 am
Chuck L:
I think you are being a bit modest; few “average students” end up at Cal.
I imagine that your post has been more useful to the parents on here than all the others put together. I wonder whether Nia might want to set up a google docs or Facebook page or some such to allow former students to anonymously post info about their experiences at OHigh — students are the best source of info, after all.
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:24 am
I am a colleague of Gordon’s at Oakland High, and it is refreshing to see more parents eager to go beneath the skin of Oakland High and not judge it based on preconceptions. I would love to see continued commitment to what Alicia is trying to do to make our school better—by the administration, staff, and community. I would love to see Oakland High become more ethnically and socio-economically diverse. However, I am a little concerned about Nia’s choice of words in her article. She hopes that that hills folks will “trickle down” to Oakland High and make it a neighborhood school. I could be misreading it, but regardless of her intentions, it gives the impression that hills students and parents are going to bless poor, impoverished Oakland High with their presence in order to help lift it from the ashes.
Sadly, like many Oakland teachers, I also have to ponder to which Oakland schools I will send my children in the future. I would hope that I will still feel as I do now—that the Oakland public schools (especially O-High) that are good enough for my students are also good enough for my own children. I understand, and will understand even more when I have children, the concerns that Oakland parents have for the educational, social, and emotional well-being of their children. Yet I also know that regardless of which OUSD schools my children attend, they will have the proper academic and emotional support that they need, just as I assume the children whose parents are a part of the “Consider Oakland High” group do. Like many of you, I have the wherewithal and educational background to ensure that my children succeed academically, so that when they come home, mom and dad can help them with math, writing, history, and maybe even science. It is the students that do not have these support systems at home that help make Oakland High special. They’re all working towards a goal—whether it is to be the first in their family to earn a diploma or go to college—and helping them reach that is what makes my job so fulfilling. We may not have the AP pass rates or hallowed reputation in the eyes of community members like some of the other schools, but rest assured that many of my colleagues and I can hold our heads high knowing we’ve committed ourselves to making these youngsters better students and more importantly better people. We will continue to serve those students who didn’t see Oakland High as a place to consider, but rather as a place to go to school. And, with all due respect, we will do that with or without the parents from Crocker and Glenview.
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:44 am
Chuck;
Thank you for sharing your experience. Gordon is correct in saying that your voice adds a great deal to this conversation. It is heartening to confirm what many of us public school parents are banking on-that Oakland High (or Skyline or Tech) are “decent enough place[s] to learn.” Congratulations on your success in navigating a large public high school and gaining acceptance to a stellar university!
As the last person standing without a Facebook account, or the vaguest notion about how to set up an anonymous post, I will have to defer this task to someone else. Good idea, nonetheless.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:11 am
OH THANK GOODNESS that local PARENTS are getting involved!!!!! I do not agree with Sue about a gladiator field (especially since her own child seemed to go to a charter anyway…), but she is simply voicing what many other “Hill folk” parents are thinking which probably has led many students being ripped out of OHS over the years.
I’ve been teaching French 1-4 at Oakland High for 19 years AND I was a student there graduating in 1981. There are & have always been problems at this and many schools considered inner-city, but the underlying current of citizens of Oakland need to realize that the “Hill folk” vs the “Flatlanders” is detrimental to all students in Oakland.
I have ALWAYS wanted MORE parent involvement, but I think many parents look at all schools as sort of a day-care to get the kids out of the house. That is a parental viewpoint, not the teachers’ viewpoint. At OHS we do a pretty darn good job instructing students and preparing them for a variety of possible futures. The more integration of a variety of families would probably make us into an excellent school. Pulling your kids out of the local school weakens the school, the community, the city and ultimately the country.
August 3rd, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Darwish:
I know that pulling out of Oakland schools is a problem. I understand that we need families to support all students. In my daughter’s public elementary school, we volunteered 40 -60 hours per month depending on the time of year.
That’s also why we took time to talk to the principals and assistant principals on multiple occasions at the middle schools. Truth told, we used up almost every hour of our vacation time trying to find a way to make it work with Oakland public middle schools.
All students deserve to be learn to write a five paragraph essay nearly flawlessly by the end of middle school. All students deserve to have the skills to compare and contrast. All students deserve to learn at grade level.
We spent over $4,000 per year supplementing my daughter’s elementary education in the form of science, math and writing camps to make up for what was not taught. These were not “special enrichment.” Just the information in the text book that the teacher did not know how to teach (solving for X, fractions, decimals, triangles and rectangles and how to calculate the area).
We donated time and money, took time off work to sit in the halls to help students who had difficulty reading and computing math problems. We bought supplies, tissue, hand sanitizer and zip lock bags. We drove on field trips, made our companies give us the mandatory 8 hours per month off to spend with the school, spent weekends cleaning up the campus only to have the neighbors and students trash it again. We built planters and planted gardens.
We just wanted our daughter taught the information in her math, reading, social studies and science books. We did not want more test prep. We wanted analysis and writing, thinking and discussion. We just wanted an appropriate grade level education.
I feel horrible, and guilty, and I don’t know how much more we could do or could have done. We talked to teachers, principals, volunteers, resource specialists and PTA volunteers at three Oakland Middle Schools. All professed that it was a good education and pointed to the test scores. Our daughter will “test well” anywhere. She uses her own background knowledge to make educated guesses.
I think what I really want is for some school personnel to admit that sometimes parents can give, and give and give and the school will just not be able to meet the academic needs of average to just above average students. Because, honestly, I feel like we gave it our very, very best.
August 3rd, 2010 at 5:41 pm
Catherine, I’ve been very impressed by the efforts you have described in your posts to find public schools that will offer a level of curriculum that can be expected in other school districts. I agree with you that our expectations for appropriate grade level education have often been eroded by the lack of resources present in our schools, and by the emphasis on testing. It’s impressive that you have been able to carefully define what those expectations should be and hold to them. Thank you for adding this reality check to the conversation. You obviously have a great deal of commitment to helping your daughter’s school meet those expectations, to the extent that is possible for a parent to help. I agree that test prep and weeks spent testing have carved away teaching time for more analytical skills, that has hurt all students. There was some research I read about that profiled 20 schools in Chicago, all with 90% of students at poverty, which contrasted their testing scores. The schools that had used higher order questioning in their teaching methods, and less time doing test prep, had much better testing scores, as the students had developed their critical thinking skills and therefore knew how to negotiate the tests. In this process of learning about Oakland High, I have found a great deal of attention from the Principal and the teachers to analytical thinking and grade level expectations similar to those you name. Glad to know you will be checking out the public high schools when your child reaches that stage, and again want to express appreciation for your thorough approach.
August 3rd, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Catherine, I just want to add that you were a tremendous asset to your daughter’s elementary school and it’s too bad that you are leaving OUSD, though I certainly understand your decision!
I have also been a very committed volunteer at my child’s school, with hundreds of volunteer hours annually. On the elementary school level and with strong neighborhood support, it’s made a difference to have a lot of very involved families (although sadly there are still large populations at our school that don’t or can’t give much in the way of time/money). I feel like my efforts will be less noticed on the middle school level though, because the schools are so much bigger, as are the problems.
I’ve been looking at some other neighboring school districts and have been happy to see that, even with the recession and hard times, there are schools able to offer things that can’t be found at OUSD. It may be with a heavy heart, but one way or another, I imagine that we’ll be following you out of the district come middle school.
August 3rd, 2010 at 6:38 pm
I teach math at Oakland High and graduated from Cal with a degree in pure math. Frankly unless you sending your child to Head Royce or another school of that caliber and expense (OR your child was educated in Singapore), Cal freshmen graduating from public schools are usually at a disadvantage.
I experienced it as a college freshman and I got through it. My boyfriend and cousin experienced it at Yale and got through it. I prepare my students for the reality they will face. Skyline vs Tech vs O High doesn’t make that big of a difference. So parents put in the extra time when they don’t have the extra money.
I would like to echo the sentiment of the O-High teacher. Any students that enter our classrooms we will welcome with open arms and and serve, but we have 1800 students that we will continue to serve even these kids don’t “trickle down from the hill.”
August 3rd, 2010 at 6:57 pm
Did you mean to say “Cal freshmen graduating from private schools…”?
August 3rd, 2010 at 9:06 pm
Well, well…I think at least two of you missed my point completely….
Of course you did a lot in your schools and it sounds as though Catherine (ironically that’s my name, too!) really did an AMAZING amount of man hours & probably she has a group of parents which is really committed to your school. I and all teachers really appreciate it! I’m sure you worked your rear-ends off!!!
But I think both Catherine & Hills parent 13 still are missing part of what I was saying:
“The more integration of a variety of families would probably make us into an excellent school. Pulling your kids out of the local school weakens the school, the community, the city and ultimately the country.”
I really mean that. My grandparents moved from NY to Oakland and my family has lived in the Bay Area since then. I have worked here long enough to see & notice some trends. One of the consistent trends is the “Hill folk” really feel that a paid for education is a privileged education (like George Bush’s perhaps?!?!?!) & I disagree.
I went to OHS & I had a decent enough education. Yes, the classes were huge; yes, the teachers sometimes had to do remedial stuff; yeah, sometimes I got picked on because of the color of my skin, hair & eyes….but overall I would NEVER exchange any moment of it. Why? Because the cross of cultures, the way the teachers had to adapt to EVERY situation made me able to think on my feet as well. That was what made me do well in university. That’s a very big part of what made me able to be a good citizen, parent & world citizen.
So, if you think you can get that kind of education in a “prep” school with a more homogenous population, I wish you luck! I agree with the sentiments of Karen Cohn in her post #117 about the analytical thinking & I think this style of teaching is just partly a result OF OUR STUDENTS, not necessarily from the top down because it’s been going on so that it gets passed down amongst the staff & faculty. A small percent of the art of teaching is an empathetic response to the needs of our students & their parents.
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:05 pm
You should probably know that our family is from South America and that we are continuing our daughter’s education in a school that has no more than 23% of any race or ethnicity.
We are not, nor were we willing to be a “hills family” and we did not want to be “in the flats” if it meant that a quarter or more of the day was filling in the knowledge and vocabulary to be able to teach the lesson.
Students do not need to be perfect and we want to make sure that our daughter is not one of the statistics of Latina girls in Oakland. From what our Oakland pediatrician explained nearly half of Latina girls are pregnant for the first time before age 20. Fewer than 25% of Latina girls who enter four year universities graduate in 6 years. We made a conscious choice to have one child because that is all of the time, effort and money our family could afford.
Yes, we believe in diversity and we believe in education and we expect to have our daughter graduate a four year university in 11 years. She expects to do so as well. Then she expects to continue on to medical school.
When we discuss on this blog about a mix of students, we should really discuss a MIX which means no more than 35% – 40% of any one type of student, single parent, immigrant, African-American, Latina/Hispanic, White, Asian, Pacific Islander, Native American, mixed race children, poverty, middle class, upper middle class and wealthy, athletes and artists, high academic achievers, medium performing students and underperforming students.
However, what I hear from Darwish is that we need more middle class white students attending schools that are primarily lower income, minority students. That is not a mix. That is a few in with the masses.
We need to find a way to teach all of our children in a school. We need to be able to count on family support, at least some support, from all students or more than 70% of them. Rather than a mass of students with little or no support. That is a mix.
In Oakland we have not found the middle path – there is still tracking in this way. And parents, families and communities who invest in schools cannot be in the minority for the school to succeed. They need to be a significant portion.
I do not want my daughter to head off to U.C. Davis, LA or Berkeley and have to make up for what she could have learned in high school – not because she wasn’t willing to learn or able to learn, but because the level of classes she needed to be academically prepared for that type of rigor was not present in the vast majority of the classes she took each of her four years of high school. This is what I will look at with Oakland Tech as well – not a wasted freshman year review what was learned in middle school, but four full years of academic rigor, in classes with a wide variety of students who want to be there and who are willing to study, work hard, be respectful of themselves and others and who have drive. We both want our daughter to be with students who model the behavior we expect of her.
We have set up a set of rules about how people should drive, that you pay the price of the items you want to buy and not put them in your pocket, you come into a classroom with your cell phone off and your iPod earbuds out of your ears, and your homework done. These are rules that are reasonable in expectation. I do not want valuable class time spent managing electronics and missing homework. I want valuable class time to be spent on teaching and learning.
August 3rd, 2010 at 10:59 pm
Uhm….Catherine, I think you incorrectly read something into my last post.
NOWHERE did I state that I feel AT ALL that middle class white families or their students should be coming to our or any school. I actually was implying quite the opposite. I’m glad you & your family have such high expectations for your daughter & for her school. I am unclear why you feel I am attacking you on any level. I am not & I profoundly apologize if you feel that way, but please do not twist my words.
I agree with you on most of what you have said & am glad you made the choices you have. You are an asset to Oakland & a great role model.
Please reread my last post & try to take it in the spirit in which it was given. I really do love Oakland & Oakland High. I stay there because I like being there not because I have to. I like teaching & I like our diversity. Anything else you take form my posts is really unintended.
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:38 pm
Hi Katy,
No I did mean to say that Cal and Ivy League Freshmen graduating from public schools are at a disadvantage compared to those whose parents payed LOTS of money for small class sizes (10-15 students) and individualized instruction. I taught at a private school. Very different.
A lot of parents commenting on here seem to think they can get the same thing for free. Not true in my experience.
I was a UGTA for the Calculus 1A and 1B sections for two years at Cal and trust me, I noticed the difference between Skyline/Tech/O High and Head Royce/Bentley/Singapore freshmen. Same experience at the Ivy’s. I (Cal), my boyfriend (Yale), my cousin (Yale) went schools very similar to O High in Sacramento. And we all had great experiences in college. We did have to work harder in the beginning, but everything turned out fine. Looking back, I would not trade my public school experience for anything!
August 3rd, 2010 at 11:45 pm
P.S. I should mention that my cousin and I are African- American and my boyfriend is Mexican just for context. Many of the kids at our high schools were on free lunch just like at O High.
August 4th, 2010 at 12:23 am
I didn’t realize anybody here was advocating valuable class time should be spent managing electronics and missing classroom homework. & I think everyone who has participated in or read a large portion of these comments (or cares about their kids) expects valuable class time be spent on teaching and learning.
I think that no matter what road one chooses for oneself and ones children there are many different roads to success. There is no absolute right or wrong answer.
I appreciate Catherine’s concerns about Edna Brewer, and am learning a lot from her rigorous evaluation of what she needs from her prospective middle school. This is something I will use in the future (we are some years off). At the same time it is hard for me to evaluate whether some parts of her child’s experience were incidental or representative of the school. It could be either, and there’s a big difference between the two. I do not say this to discount that experience but as an example of both the variables & why we must all make personal decisions.
Likewise I think Terri, Karen, Mia and others have pointed to the fact that there ARE other options (than private school or going out of district), and there are ways to find success at Edna Brewer. This is from parents who apparently also have high expectations of their children and of the school, and are actually there.
I must say that it is comforting knowing Edna Brewer (EB) has made so much progress over the years that we even have it as a viable Middle School option. Indeed the improvements of the feeder schools for EB point to a continuation of that trend: Glenview, Crocker Highland, Lincoln, Cleveland and Bella Vista. I also understand many families from out of Edna’s feeder network are going there, for example Peralta and Kaiser.
So several things are adding to each other for a school like Edna Brewer to “cycle up”: improved administration and teaching, improved education in elementary schools, improved education of those elementary students upon entry into MS, retaining & attracting more of those students, their families adding more demand for even higher achievement (like Catherine’s), etc.
This is what has also carried over from Edna Brewer and other Middle Schools to O-Tech, as many students have gone there instead. Given what O-High teachers are already accomplishing (based on the discussion here), given the success that some students are experiencing (based on the discussion here, + the scores being comparable to O-Tech, + many students from feeder schools already go there, even if they’re not white and upper middle class), the Vice Principal of Edna Brewer becoming Principal of Roosevelt (which also feeds inti O-High), I would say that O-High is ripe for both contined improvements and the efforts of Consider Oakland High.
Finally, I would like to end my comments by saying that I hope there is a way that Oakland Schools and parents can find ways to communicate with parents like Catherine who don’t chose OUSD, and other successful schools and school districts with similar sociology-economic diversity. In this way we can find out what other schools are doing and integrate some of their best practices. This will benefit us all, students, parents and residents alike.
August 4th, 2010 at 7:13 am
Re: O High, on some levels it isn’t diverse at all. I believe that less than 1% of students are Caucasian. I don’t know what percentage are middle class or upper middle class, but I imagine it’s a small number.
So, I can already tell that my child would not have peers at that school in the same racial and socio-economic grouping. I value diversity and our elementary school is very diverse, but I would never send my child to a school where they would feel alienated and different from just about everyone else who attended. If the school really was more mixed, than that would be a more welcoming environment.
In terms of academics and expectations, I agree with Catherine and am very concerned about the time spent in class dealing managing students, tamping down distractions etc. I too want a student body that is ready to work and values learning. I want to be part of a school where most families give in one way or another – be it of their time or money. I want my child to be surrounded by students with focus, discipline and character. I just don’t know if I can find this in abundance at a large Oakland middle or high school.
I wish that Oakland had a magnet middle and/or high school that could attract talented kids from all over the district. This would combine true diversity and academic rigor and would help stem the losses to private schools and/or better public school districts after elementary school.
August 4th, 2010 at 8:55 am
Hills Parent 13, I don’t know why you think parents of different racial or socio-economic backgrounds don’t want a student body that is ready to work or values learning. I think their are many such families at Edna Brewer among the African American, Asian and Latino students. Caucasian isn’t the only form of diversity. Guess where many of those other diverse successful kids are going? O-High.
Concerning the Middle Class, there are many many members of the Middle Class who are not Caucasian. I have to look up what the current rates are in Oakland but I would venture that a healthy percentage of two income families in Oakland of any background, even if their individual incomes are working class or poor, combined fit into the Middle Class. Remember that the upper limits of a family income with one child to qualify for Free & Reduced lunch is $35,000. And for a single income family $35,000 might not be great, it might be lower Middle Class, but it is a good, solid job & income. My point is there are probably a lot more Middle Class families both in Oakland and at O-High than you think.
As such the diversity alone should not be your only baromiter. Edna Brewer also started off with a lower recent caucasian population, and because of the success of the rest of the diverse student body it attracted more attention from middle class families of all backgrounds, including caucasian. The last time I checked Edna Brewer was 70th percentile among Middle Schools and 90th percentile among Middle Schools with similar diversity and socio-economics. Decent enough, room for improvement, and a LOT better than it was a few years ago.
I appreciate your concerns as a parent who will probably be going out of district come Middle School. But I would like to find out more from the parents & teachers who ARE in district in Middle and High School about their experiences and avenues of continued improvement. After all the title of this post is “Consider Oakland High”. Not “Don’t Consider Oakland High”.
August 4th, 2010 at 9:10 am
There are choices for Oakland Parents and Students:
You can participate and make your neighborhood school “better”.
You can try to transfer to an out-of-district school (probably not Alameda schools) but many of them have similar, or worse budget woes than Oakland.
You can try one of Oakland’s charter schools.
Private school (if you have an extra 40-60 thousand bucks lying around).
Or you can quit your job and home school.
August 4th, 2010 at 9:36 am
It would be nice to here more about the Science Program & Lab facilities at O-High from some teachers, students & parents at O-High. I see that Glenview Mom mentioned this earlier, & then there were some helpful comments about Math, Language & very detailed info about AP History from Gordon.
But could we get some more detail on the Science Programs, and plans/goals for these at O-High? Thank you.
August 4th, 2010 at 10:04 am
I am glad to hear from several other OHS teachers. Gordon Danning has given us much valuable info but parents of course want to know the sentiments of a variety of folks their students will learn from. I know of high schools who poll their college bound alum one year later to get feedback on their preparation. That might be a project that parents could take on in support of the school. I would like to make some space in this discussion for teachers to state their concerns about having new families come to OHS without it being accusatory toward those families. I do not think the school is broken in any way and I have not met any families who think they are on a rescue mission. We all, teachers and parents, know the challenges faced by an urban school district and we all care about all students succeeding. We are particularly aware of our own student and want to do what is best for them. If teachers resent having a new demographic at the school however it is defined then that will affect our student. So I do ask teachers to offer some consideration to how they will respond to a change. Adults model acceptance for students as well as vice.versa. Lastly I viewed Ms. Abernathy’s algebra class and it was 100% on task with particpation from all types of students. This was true for every class we visited that day.
August 4th, 2010 at 10:15 am
After seeing the article in today’s Tribune, I felt I wanted to contribute to the conversation about Oakland High.
My son transferred as a junior from a private school to Oakland High because he wanted to play football. We were told by an educational consultant to consider Oakland High over other Oakland High Schools because she felt it was a safer environment.
We are white middle class residents of Glenview. My husband and I used to laugh when the teachers didn’t even need to ask who we were. The teachers would say you must be “blah-blah”‘s parents. That said, we felt that the academics were very good and our son was treated very well by the students of all different ethnicities.
Our son had AP classes in English, Calculus among other classes. He was accepted at UCSC, Long Beach and Cal Poly SLO. Much to our chagrin, he decided to attend DVC where his friends were going. He was accepted into the highly regarded business school at Cal Poly but it was too far out of the urban environment for his taste.
All in all, he seemed to be happy there and still has friends from O-High. In order to be truthful, I have to say that we decided for my daughter to go to a smaller private school. It’s not perfect either but you have to decide what is best for your child.
August 4th, 2010 at 10:47 am
To Livegreen, I didn’t mean in any way to suggest that there aren’t families of color who are serious about education or to suggest that only wealthier kids are academically-focused. What I am saying is that I don’t feel comfortable sending my child to a school where they are likely to be among the few children in their racial or socio-economic niche. This is based on both my own experiences and observations as well as things I have heard from other people who have attended OUSD middle and high schools. It is my belief that while a diverse group of peers in important, a group of “similar” peers is necessary.
Schools that have strong parental support and/or are in wealthier communities have students who, on average, will perform at a higher academic level. The reality is that this often equates to schools with a larger white population.
I will concede that this thread is “Consider O High” not reasons why not to attend, but it’s important to understand why people are driven to make other choices too. If there is a way that OUSD can meet the needs – both academic and social – of the fleeing segment of the population, then maybe they should think outside the box to retain families who would otherwise be incline to leave OUSD after fifth grade.
Finally, I would like to add that I’m sure that there are some excellent teachers at middle and high schools in our district and that I believe in public education in general. We are a family that could send our child to a private school, even at the elementary level, but we’ve opted to support our local public school. We give a lot of time and thousands of dollars annually to help our school. I just don’t know if there are enough families and donations to fill in the gaps that will present themselves at middle and high school.
August 4th, 2010 at 2:25 pm
I think there is a bigger issue here that hasn’t really been addressed. OUSD received a grant from the College Board a few years ago to support high performing students. I’ve not seen a huge impact and I suspect some of the money was redirected. Also the State of CA sends money every year for GATE students. Often this money is incorrectly redirected towards Special Ed as both of these groups fall under the category of “special populations”.
OUSD as a district tends to focus most of it’s resources on remediation and the higher performing students are a second priority. SO the “hills” parents aren’t imagining it. Just follow the money. Also take a look at the School Site Plan for each high school to see what the schools priorities are. This is public information.
I have a colleague in Marin County where they formed a group of parents to address some of these same problems. This has been a civil rights issue in Oakland in the past, (I believe there was a case at Skyline concerning AP classes several years ago) because all children deserve equal access no matter where they go to school.
I will be reviving the GATE committee at Oakland High next year. Darwish and Danning will also be on this committee as we are always advocating for more resources for our higher performing students. But I would I would love to do something similar to what was done in Marin on a district wide level here in Oakland. If any parents on here are interested (you all seem like the perfect recruits!), email me at roriemail@gmail.com.
August 4th, 2010 at 5:21 pm
Hills Parent 13–I agree with you, more diversity is always a good thing. A number of years ago, when my older son was a kindergartner at Glenview in a kindergarten class where he was the only white child, a parent I only barely knew and who rejected Glenview Elem. because her family was white and middle class asked me how it was for my son to be a minority in his classroom. I asked her which minority–for not only was he the only white child in his class, he was also the only Jewish kid and the only kid with two lesbian moms and a gay dad. I realize elementary school is different from middle and high school and his awareness of his differences is greater now than back then. But he has always attended schools where white kids are a very small minority. Having said that, I don’t want him to be the only white kid in his freshman class, nor does he want that. But until parents change their own paradigm (what Karen referred to in a much earlier choice–we don’t go there because we don’t go there), the paradigm will never change. Oakland High has the potential to be a far more diverse school if more middle class families choose to go there and if more white families choose to go there.
August 4th, 2010 at 7:36 pm
HP-13, I understand your concerns & Catherine’s, and I appreciate some of the detail you both have given about reasons for your concerns (I agree with some of them, I agree in part with some of your diversity concerns, but I disagree in part for the reasons I’ve mentioned).
The details you & Catherine give support to OUSD HS negatives. But I also want to learn more about the school itself from the teachers, students & parents. It’s time to hear about some of the positives so those of us who are at least considering will have more information, that we need.
Our son has had positive experiences at OUSD Elementary, we’re aware of the negatives and want to continue the hard work in improving it that our predecessors have done. We’re seeing the same thing in Middle School & there’s no reason that trend won’t happen at O-High. We will go into this realistically and evaluate all sides be for we make our decision.
I look forward to more comments from O-High teachers, especially about the new Labs & Science programs…
August 4th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Hills Parent 13: I was typically the only Person of Color in all my classes from K-12. Cracks me up a bit to see the angst of those w/o color when put in the same (minority)situation, even though who and what you are is supported by the society as a whole. But seriously, does your child have as many issues with this as you? Just because a person does not share the same color as you or eat the same food does not mean that he or she does not share the same educational and other values. Your child will find them.
If your child is bound for one of the U.C., O-High would get him/her used to classes with a high proportion of Chinese and Vietnamese! The school also has numbers of kids whose families speak Khmer, Arabic, Mien, and Lao. I don’t know what countries the Spanish speakers are from, but I have no doubt that it is more than Mexico. What a richness of perspective and experiences you will never find at a private school.
And you can tell your kid the same thing that my mother would tell me more times than I want to remember: You better behave and not act out because you cannot blend into the crowd like the rest of the kids. (Shout out to Glenview Resident’s son!) Everyone will remember. And it is not just you; you are representing your family, your ethnicity, and your race. Okay, maybe that last sentence doesn’t apply if you’re white, but I was told that all the time!
BUT if your kid doesn’t pick up on social cues and has low Social/Emotional Quotient and thus has few friends and tends to get picked on, maybe the complex environment of an urban public school would be too much of a challenge. My daughter, whose EQ/SQ is off the charts, loves the challenge.
August 4th, 2010 at 8:40 pm
I’m not sure if this is needed, but I’m happy to clarify my use of the words “trickle down.” It really was not intended to upset or alienate anyone. It was not an allusion to Reaganomics. Neither was it an allusion to holy water used to bless anyone. In fact, the intention of my email was to express my excitement about the possibility of neighborhood children attending their closest public high school. The use of the word “trickle” was to acknowledge that this would likely be a very small stream of children and families who would join the ranks of OHigh from these neighborhoods, at least initially. I’m sorry if this caused confusion and distress to anyone.
Discussions about schools seem to bring up very strong sentiments as we grapple with issues of race/ethnicity, class, diversity, parenting, teaching, cognitive abilities, public needs, greater good and our own children’s futures. With this in mind, I really hope we can continue to dialog in a way that encourages an open exchange of thoughts and ideas. I’m so appreciative of the sharing and introspection that has taken place on this subject and look forward to learning more.
August 4th, 2010 at 9:44 pm
Donna, I understand that others have been in the position of being a “minority” or even the sole person of a particular race in their whole school. This is just not something that I seek for my child. I know that my child – most any child for that matter – would be more comfortable in an environment that also includes peers/friends of his or her racial and/or socio-economic niche. Just as diversity is important, I strongly feel that it also just as healthy to have friendships among people who are similar to oneself.
My brother’s best friend growing up was of a different race. The kids were best friends in elementary school. Cracks started in middle school and by seventh or eighth grade both kids formed a circle of friends comprised of kids from the same race as themselves. I think a lot of it was a comfort and/or identity thing at that age. I looked around the school and found that what happened with my brother and his friend wasn’t unusual. It certainly was not that uncommon a generation ago.
Perhaps things have changed, but in my child’s class today I still see that the Asian kids often hang out together, the African American kids seek each other out, the white kids play together more often than not. This is not exclusively of course, but I think that it is natural that much of the time, we seek out those that are “like us”.
Middle school and high schools can be difficult times for a lot of reasons – puberty, growing up, finding yourself, learning, planning for your future, social dramas and traumas, relationships etc. I’m not sure want to add more challenges on top of it by taking a chance on a large, urban school when we can make other choices. We’ll see.
Thanks for the engaging discussion, everyone!
August 5th, 2010 at 12:15 pm
I can see parents wanting to protect their children from excessive stresses, but I don’t see being in the minority as excessive. For most of my life, I’ve been the first, or the only female in many, many situations. Whether it was being the only 7th grader and the only girl to make it to the semi-finals in my elementary school’s chess tournament, or the first enlisted female programmer in the 1500 Computer Services Squadron during my Air Force enlistment, or the only woman in several offices where I’ve worked since, being different and one-of-a-kind has been an advantage. Yes, I got noticed and I stood out from the crowd, and though the notice started because of my gender, it was to my advantage because it was quickly discovered that I was really good at what I was doing.
My older son just graduated from Skyline. We’ve never paid any attention to percentages of various ethnic groups in any of his OUSD schools, but I’m pretty sure that he and his younger brother are both minority-white-kids in every school they’ve attended.
It wasn’t important to us. Older son’s autism was much more significant in making him “different”. But again, being different has been to his advantage – how many autistics do you think will be going to CSUEB as Theater majors next month? I’m pretty sure the answer is: one. He’s got amazing memorization skills, and a voice, whether speaking his lines (perfect enunciation) or singing, that can project to the back of a theater without amplification, and has brought him standing ovations when he’s performed on Skyline’s stage.
Don’t be afraid of being unique – everyone else is, too. When it’s obvious because one *looks* different (or more specifically, behaves and speaks differently, as my older son does due to his autism) the extra notice and attention can be very helpful in finding success.
August 5th, 2010 at 1:04 pm
Sue: Playing Devil’s Advocate, I say that some people have very strong and reasonable feelings about who they will permit their minor children to associate with, be exposed to, go to school with.
For many good reasons, some of which are cultural and some of which involve specific family history, a family might choose to avoid a certain school with a certain population in order to block or delay exposure of their kid to a particular demographic.
And good for them. Families do have choices.
Some black families do not want certain kids exposed to certain things at certain times. They feel that their kids are more vulnerable and they have plans for them that don’t include underclass “friends”.
I have noticed this with Indian families. Gender may be an issue, alcoholism/drug traits could be an issue (I know families with morbid alcoholism in their line who will delay their kids exposure to alcohol, etc).
It’s not just whites. Most of the white families I see believe their kids can dance with the devil and they’ll turn out OK. We know better. Maybe Black families don’t feel as “safe” as you do. Because we have seen the results of “hands off” over the last 60 years – and it doesn’t end well.
So we’d just as soon go to Piedmont schools.
August 5th, 2010 at 1:22 pm
Okay, if I’ve followed the rest of the various discussions, the black kids going to Piedmont schools are very much in the minority there, right? Possibly even unique in that school system. So a black family that makes that choice is simply doing what I suggested above – not staying with everyone just like them out of fear of being different from the herd. And good for them.
August 5th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
I hesitated to jump into the conversation because my sons’ abilities in math and science have been documented on the blog many times.
We did look at Oakland High, however briefly. The level of math courses available on campus were not four years of advanced math. He will be in Oakland Tech this year and will wait to find out whether he will be in the Engineering academy.
Like many of the parents on this blog we were concerned about safety. Twice, the girls in our neighborhood were robbed of electronics while waiting for the AC Transit bus on MacArthur Blvd. We feel that Oakland Tech has a good policy on “dangerous situations.” For example, last year when students were robbed on the school grounds, the principal put notifications out on the Oakland Tech thread.
This is not the case with middle school issues and not on the Skyline thread.
It is much less threatening if the “danger” or “perception of danger” is known. I love my sons, but they are not big guys, they are rather small and tend to use words rather than physical behavior to resolve conflict. They have also been taught to hand over “things” when confronted as things can be replaced.
I would really like to see Oakland High be forthcoming in posting all issues on their own thread if there is one. I would like to see that they are bumping up math-science-technology courses and show student work when we come for school tours. I would love to see a shadow program similar to Oakland Tech. For example we were able to specify that we wanted my son to shadow a boy in the engineering program who took at least one Paideia class and who was interested in tennis or swimming. Got one! Ethnicity did not matter. The fact that my son could have like minded fellow students mattered.
My sons did attend OUSD middle school and I also volunteered at school. I will say that while some classes and teachers were excellent, very few classes required anything close to academic rigor that is discussed here.
I am also afraid that when my sons get into college they will not be as prepared and well rounded as they should be. There are very few opportunities of liberal arts (music, drama, painting, sculpture, dance and poetry) even in the Oakland elementary schools as the state of California says students should be exposed to. If you look at the U.C. graduation requirements, my sons will have to learn these subjects literally from the ground up as college students.
It makes me kind of sad that even if my sons are willing to be at school, that the subjects are just not available. I agree with what Catherine says. I agree with Nia that schools cannot educate everyone, especially if they have advanced educational needs.
It makes students want to try to be average rather than exceptional. In our house my sons often tease each other and say “looks like you’re aiming for average again” as sort of a put down.
August 5th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
The conversation is very interesting and revealing about the status of race relations in the Bay Area. It confirmed to me that diversity is valued here for restaurants and festivals only. When it comes to educating your kids or living in a particular neighborhood, the demarcation lines appear. One thing that really irks me is that most middle class and “Hills” parents think they represent the best and the brightest in schools. Have you ever sat in class with children of African immigrants? Good luck.
August 6th, 2010 at 9:20 am
(Unfortunately) Posting 141 sums up the entire chain of responses. I do want to applaud the people who have the courage to do the right thing when it comes to school choice, as well as people like “Consider Oakland High”. It is easier to come up with reasons/excuses why you didn’t/”couldn’t” do something than to step up and be an instrument of change. “We don’t do it because we don’t do it” has been said far too many times in our history.
I would recommend that all people who are interested in this topic read the book “Shades of White” written by Pamela Gray. She did a longitudinal study of how white kids views on race, racism, and the world were affected by whether they attended a school where they were a majority (actually an unnamed school through the tunnel) and an urban school where they were a minority (our very own unnamed SHS). The results were most interesting. Much of the information is applicable to socioeconomic status as well as race.
Below is some information about the book (Duke University Press) along with some reviews:
Shades of White: White Kids and Racial Identities in High School
Author(s): Pamela Perry
Published: 2002
Pages: 280
Description
What does it mean to be young, American, and white at the dawn of the twenty-first century? By exploring this question and revealing the everyday social processes by which high schoolers define white identities, Pamela Perry offers much-needed insights into the social construction of race and whiteness among youth.
Through ethnographic research and in-depth interviews of students in two demographically distinct U.S. high schools—one suburban and predominantly white; the other urban, multiracial, and minority white—Perry shares students’ candor about race and self-identification. By examining the meanings students attached (or didn’t attach) to their social lives and everyday cultural practices, including their taste in music and clothes, she shows that the ways white students defined white identity were not only markedly different between the two schools but were considerably diverse and ambiguous within them as well. Challenging reductionist notions of whiteness and white racism, this study suggests how we might go “beyond whiteness” to new directions in antiracist activism and school reform.
Shades of White is emblematic of an emerging second wave of whiteness studies that focuses on the racial identity of whites. It will appeal to scholars and students of anthropology, sociology, and cultural studies, as well as to those involved with high school education and antiracist activities.
About The Author(s)
Pamela Perry is Assistant Professor of Community Studies at the University of California, Santa Cruz.
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“[A] truly outstanding contribution to the existing race and ethnic relations literature. . . . I strongly recommend this very well written, accessible, and forward-thinking book for courses in race relations, multicultural and ethnic studies, and education. Perry’s Shades of White makes an outstanding contribution to our understanding of the relational and situational nature of racial identity construction and the various social forces that continue to reshape the meaning we attach to race.”—Charles A. Gallagher, Social Forces
“This ethnographic portrait of students enrolled in two very different northern California schools provides us with some insight into how they identify racially and establish cultural boundaries among themselves and across racial groups. . . . This comparative research design allowed Perry not only to observe how context influences racial identity, but also how white students from similar backgrounds maintained substantively different racial identities depending on whether they were a part of either the school’s majority or minority. . . . I enjoyed reading Shades of White, and certainly, I cannot quibble with Perry’s conclusions.” —Prudence L. Carter, Contemporary Sociology
“In presenting findings based on participant observation in the schools and in-depth interviews with 60 students, Perry paints a portrait of racial identity formation among whites that varies dramatically by proximity to students of color. She asserts that merely interacting with students of different races and ethnic backgrounds in a multicultural school is not enough to counter the forces of racism that persist in American society.”—UC Santa Cruz Review
“In Shades of White, author Pamela Perry interviews white students at two high schools—one in an urban, multiethnic community and the other in a suburban and predominantly white setting. Her goal is to figure out what it means to be young, white and American. Her conclusions—as can be expected—are not simple. Racial identity is considerably diverse and ambiguous. But Perry concludes her study on a less hazy note. She speaks strongly ‘ on behalf of reversing the current trend towards resegregated schools and revitalizing efforts to integrate and reform our public schools.’”—Jill Wolfson, San Jose Mercury News
“In an overwhelmingly white country being white used to be seen as just being part of the majority, just a normal American. But how will our children think about it in schools where they will increasingly confront more and more students of other racial and ethnic identities? This book offers a sensitive and fascinating exploration of that question from the state at the cusp of that demographic revolution, California. Perry frames vital issues of integration and equity that demand leadership from the nation’s educators not just for the sake of minority students, but to prepare whites to become a successful minority in a workable multiracial society.”—Gary Orfield, Harvard University
August 6th, 2010 at 9:37 am
@Oakland Teacher – i will definitely check out this title.
… can we pass around the plate and purchase Nextset a copy of this interesting book?
August 6th, 2010 at 9:53 am
Sue and Just My Thoughts:
Thank you for posts #139 and #141. I had quite a strong reaction to Hills Parent 13 post #136 and I found it difficult to respond in an appropriate manner. Both of you, albeit in different ways, “hit the nail on the head”.
August 6th, 2010 at 10:03 am
I don’t think this book would change Nexset’s viwpoint; most of what he rambles on about are students of color and low achieving students. He actually pays little attention to the middle class families who (while wringing their hands) choose private or non-neighborhood schools.
I want to add that on many levels this book addresses the BENEFITS of white students attending schools where they are not a majority. Research shows that when there is a large enough (20% in some estimates) percent of white students, they become the dominant culture, thus eliminating the true multi-cultural aspect of the school. Everyone else becomes marginalized or assimilates (sorry Nextset, but I disagree that this is necessarily a good thing).
Most people agree that it was not beneficial to have segregated schools, and many studies were done to show the benefits to students of color who attended integrated schools. Pamela Gray’s book looks in the other direction: what are the effects on white students? She came back 10 years later and met with the same students, and the results were pretty consistent. When looking at the characteristics, life choices, and world view of the (now) adults, I would have no problem choosing between a school that may help grow my childrens’(and my) comfort zones & that could help my child grow into someone with a broader view and a school where my child blends right in.
August 6th, 2010 at 5:17 pm
This book sounds like a must-read for teachers as well as white parents.
I think “Just My Thoughts” in post #141 was right in his/her observation of most middle class and Hills parents. The middle school where I teach has a very high rate of kids on free and reduced lunch and is very racially, ethnically, and lingustically diverse. And I’ve had many amazing thinkers in my classes. I am often blown away by their observations and their thoughts even if their reading and writing skills are not proficient. The biggest difference between my students and my own kids is that my kids come from an educated family and have had many more opportunities than my students, the vast majority of whom have never been to the theater or a museum (unless there was a field trip), don’t go to the public library regularly (although we do go to the school library regularly during the school year), don’t go camping or spend much time in nature, don’t take vacations to places other than Las Vegas, or where their families live or are from.
Every year I do a reading survey, and one of the questions I ask is for them to approximate how many books they have in their homes. Some only have the Bible. A couple of times students have asked me if the phone book counts. Like my own two sons, most of my students are involved in some kind of sport, play a lot of electronics, watch a lot of tv, and go to a lot of movies. But my kids are given opportunities and experiences that most of my students don’t get to have. It does have an impact on their lives, on their approach to school (my kids have a lot more academic prior knowledge to build on which is crucial in grasping new content), and on their thoughts about their future. But so many of my students are just as capable if not more capable than my own children. They might not be able to express themselves as well as my own children when it comes to discussing something academic, but they have the ability to get there. A classroom that is not only ethnically and racially diverse, but socioeconomically diverse offers many challenges to a teacher, but it also offers many rewards as well to the teacher and all the students.
August 6th, 2010 at 5:40 pm
I think some of the comments listed here are fair and some are very unfair. My husband and I are not college educated and we were willing to look at all high schools we thought were appropriate.
I was one of the parents who advocated in 2001 (before we tested all students for GATE in Oakland – when only the hills kids were tested routinely) for GATE testing for all students in all schools. We have sons who caught us off guard by being extra ordinary learners.
We do not seem to care about our high end students at all. I know this because when my son had a problem with is eyes, we had district specialists all over our family giving services. When the problem was solved with glasses that corrected the problem all services disappeared.
Asking the district to educate a special needs child with Down Syndrome, Dyslexia, vision problems or even unspecified learning disorders is fair – to everyone I talk to in the district. Asking for an education for a student who has achieved beyond what the average classroom teacher has made plans for and is willing to teach is now considered disrespectful, racist, classist, snobbish or worse. And name-calling or insinuations that parents of students with needs that are not being met are these things is not fair. Would you say that a parent of a child with Down Syndrome who worried about how the child would be treated at Oakland High would be elitist, classist or racist? Or were they just trying to find the most appropriate education for their child?
We are a family who cannot afford private school, even with a 90% scholarship and still be able to pay the mortgage, repair our 13 year old car, etc. We want an appropriate education for our sons. You don’t know our race, you don’t know what class our families are from and you don’t know how to meet the needs of our sons because you and people in the district have not asked how you can help them (except with the eye problem). We have to navigate the entire system ourselves.
My husband and I thought the counselors would help. The teachers would tell us where we could find free or reduced price math classes and computer classes. But it did not happen. When we try to find them ourselves, we are told that we think we are too good for the brown kids. It is not true. We just want our sons to learn something in the classes they are in. That’s all we just work and pay taxes and live in our house in Oakland and want them to learn some in all of their classes. Is that so bad?
August 6th, 2010 at 5:58 pm
Jenns:
can you clarify what you mean when you say that Oakland High does not offer 4 yrs of advanced math? We offer AP Calculus BC and AP Statistics — is there more advanced math than that offered at a high school somewhere?? That would be a very unique school
August 6th, 2010 at 7:01 pm
If a student takes Algebra in 6th grade or 7th grade and takes Geometry in 7th grade or 8th grade by high school the student should take Calculus AB and Calculus BC, Trigonometry, Statistics, and Mathematical Analysis. Yes, these subjects are offered in public high schools, yes, some middle school students begin taking the classes at the high school if they have finished geometry in 7th grade.
When I look at the classes offered at Oakland High School I see three years of Mathematics, Calculus AB, Calculus BC and Statistics. Perhaps I am missing something significant, but what I see is three years of math.
I will mention the public schools that offer these selections at the risk of being called racist, classist and elitist: Campolindo High School and Piedmont High School offer these classes, Alameda High offers even more and all of these schools allow students to tap into classes WHILE ON CAMPUS AT HIGH SCHOOL to online classes through U.C. Berkeley and Stanford.
All of these schools seek out and promote mathematical advancement. I think that is what I am seeking for my sons, a culture that seeks out talent for development. Friends who have sons at Alameda High School have said that there are high level math clubs which have mentors from universities as well as they have high school teachers who appropriately mentor. Students work on real world problems in which they use their mathematics to solve them. Geeky kids are a sub culture that is welcome and given classrooms to meet in before and after school and at lunch.
As I said before, I did not find that there are four years of math AFTER geometry. Please correct me if I am wrong.
August 6th, 2010 at 8:11 pm
Regarding the math at O-High, you can’t really take either Calculus classes until you complete Algebra 2 AND Math Analysis (Pre-Calc). AP Statistics and regular Statistics just require Algebra 2.
This would be the typical math courses a student would take at O-High (from what I have witnessed as a student):
Geometry (9th grade), Algebra 2 (10th grade), Math Analysis (11th grade), Calculus AB or BC (12th grade, based on teacher recommendation).
However, some students might choose to take both Math Analysis AND AP/Regular Stats during the 11th grade to challenge themselves, or to just get 4 years of math done so they won’t have math their senior year. Also, some students have taken Math Analysis or Calculus at a JC during the summer so they can get ahead the following year.
August 6th, 2010 at 8:19 pm
Would it be possible for the Oakland High website to have a Course Catalog in pdf with a description of the courses that parents could download? The high school in my district, James Logan High School, offers that on their website. In addition to describing the classes, the catalog also identifies which classes meet the entrance requirements for CSU and UC.
August 7th, 2010 at 11:40 am
The math sequence described in #150 is correct for all schools: after Geometry, you need to take Alg 2/Trig, then Math Analysis (aka pre-calc) and then you can choose to break Calculus into a 2 year sequence (AB, then BC) or just take BC. There is also the Stat option (AP) as well. So the person who says that Oak High does not offer 4 years of adv math needs to do their homework on what the math sequence is. One of my kids took the above sequence (starting with Alg 2) in high school, got “5″ on both the Calc AP tests (4 years of hs math) and got into UCLA, Cal and many Ivy’s with full rides to all. If they had wanted to skip Calc AB and just take BC junior year, then AP statistics would have been another option for the 4th year of hs. The AP track students in OUSD tend to actually be a year ahead of the “preferred” districts, who only rarely take Alg 1 in 7th grade. Anyone who says OUSD schools cannot meet their advanced child’s needs is just coming up with excuses. Tiresome!
August 7th, 2010 at 2:50 pm
In response to #152, when I looked at the website, it was hard to figure out what the course sequences are for the different content areas, and there wasn’t a description of the classes. This is why it would be helpful to have a course catalog available either online or as a pdf file that also would outline what the various course options are for students (both AP and non-AP) to meet UC and CSU requirements for all content areas, PE and electives. I couldn’t find that on the website. If we want Oakland parents to choose Oakland schools, especially high schools, than OUSD and the individual schools need to make their websites easier to use so we can get the information we need to make informed decisions for our children.
August 7th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
Tiresome Oakland Teacher:
Many advanced students are capable of taking algebra in 6th grade, it’s just that parents of these students must FIGHT the schools in OUSD. As I said before, if a student takes algebra in 6th, geometry in 7th, clearly that student is quite capable of compacting mathematics as is available in many schools with diversity. Statistics is not necessarily a “sequence” math course. It is sequenced because a school chooses to present it as a sequenced math course. A high level student would be able to take Statistics with Algebra 2/Trigonometry.
This is particularly true as technically an 8th grader who took Algebra in 6th grade, and geometry in 7th grade could easily take Algebra 2/Trigonometry in 8th grade, IF it was offered as a option. Not one single middle school in Oakland, NOT ONE gives students that option, several other districts give that option to 8th grade students. Tiresome, but true.
August 7th, 2010 at 7:58 pm
I am a middle school math teacher in OUSD and also private math tutor in Alamo. One of my private tutor students (who really does not need a tutor) was in advance math in 6th grade. This means he took Pre-Algebra. He will now take Algebra in the 7th grade. My niece who has scored Advance on all CSTs and gets straight As is in Accelerated Algebra (in 8th grade) and now will take Geometry in the 9th grade. Another young lady that I tutored (who did need tutoring) took regular Algebra in the 8th grade and because she did not get a B on her final will now take it again in the 9th grade. Because unlike OUSD where we are pushing our students into classes they can not handle, San Ramon Unified has decided all students must have a strong B on all benchmarks in order to take Geometry. Lastly, this summer I also tutored several students in the Math ACT section and that test is very heavy in Algebra. So, if you really do not understand it (Algebra), it will haunt you forever.
August 8th, 2010 at 11:07 am
The choice between public school vs. private vs. charter vs. out of district vs. homeschooling is a difficult one for many parents. It is also a very personal individual choice based on multiple factors and underlying beliefs.
For example, some people (of many ethnic/racial and class backgrounds) have the unshakable belief that privates are better, perhaps because they are successful products of a private education, or because they’ve been told ‘you get what you pay for’, or because of any other personal experience. One O High teacher above was very clear that, “A lot of parents commenting on here seem to think they can get the same thing for free. Not true in my experience.” Others have beliefs that charters, publics, out of district publics, home schools, etc. are the best option for their family. Some parents choose to have one child in private and one in public. We have read on this blog nearly every permutation of people loving or hating each of their options for any number of reasons.
In my experience, people make their decisions based on very complex individual reasoning. I do not think that it is helpful or correct to imply that a person’s choice to attend a certain school boils down to them being ‘racist’ or ‘classist’ or to dismiss their concerns as ‘excuses’. I am also not inclined to state that there is a ‘right’ choice that all people ‘should’ make.
August 8th, 2010 at 1:20 pm
Nia:
I agree that it is difficult for one citizen to pass judgment on what is the right choice for another in regard to schooling their child at a private, semi-private corporate charter school or a public school.
But, as a private citizen I have made the judgment that I want my tax dollars going to public schools and not to pay my tax dollars to privative schools and/or corporate charter schools.
I distinguish between corporate charter schools and private schools because private schools may or may not have taken out papers to make them legally corporations but all California charter schools that I am aware of make themselves corporations no matter how small of an operation. Not all but most charter schools across the nation are also legal corporations.
Charter schools that are not corporations are public schools funded and managed by the chartering organization. And, that is a legal relationship that I can support.
The corporate charter school issue for me is legal accountability and corporations are not legally accountable to the public. That is why there is has not been a single Oakland charter school governing board election put on the ballot. In the case of Oakland KIPP its charter school corporate governing Board is located across the Bay making its accountability to local control problematic.
Jim Mordecai
August 8th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
I think Jenna’s point has been well stated & well focussed, which is that in the exceptional situation where students go beyond the most advanced levels of High School eduction, her research shows it is difficult or impossible to get OUSD’s ok to get more advanced Math education.
In her post #149 she gives specific examples of other HS districts that are permitted to attend University level Math classes.
Now that might not be the case for many students, but it is a specific, valid & constructive criticism of OUSD. One that it seems would have made her more comfortable considering an Oakland High School.
It would be nice if OUSD good look into addressing the points Jenna has brought up.
August 8th, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I want to 2nd Terri’s point about Course Catalogs. This sounds the same as or similar to Curriculum. (Is it?) This is basic for any private school, and I’m amazed at how many OUSD schools don’t have them.
I will be pushing for our OUSD Elementary School to implement this.
Terri, does Edna Brewer have Curriculum or Course Catalogs?
August 8th, 2010 at 10:49 pm
Livegreen,
I’m not sure I understand your question. All schools have curriculum for each content/subject area. The state of California has very high standards at each grade level for all content areas, and curriculum is built around those standards. The standards for each content area build on what they previously learned or have very specific areas that they focus on. For example, 6th grade history is early humans, ancient river civilizations, and other great eras to study all the way up to the rise of the Roman Empire. 7th grade history has the fall of the Roman empire and goes into all these really interesting periods from early Africa to the Maya, Incas, and Aztecs, to Feudal Japan, the Middle Ages, etc. But in 8th grade history, it is all about American history from Native Americans to Reconstruction and beyond. It is easy to access content standards at the following website: http://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/
Course catalogs, on the other hand, describe the different courses that a school offers. At an elementary school it is completely unnecessary to have a course catalog. And at a middle school, it’s probably not necessary either except, perhaps, in electives, if students have a choice in deciding what they want for an elective. (For example, in my middle school where I teach, 6th graders take an elective wheel so they don’t get a choice unless they want choir, band, or Spanish–which are year long classes. But in 7th and 8th grade, since they do get to choose either 2 semester electives or a 1 year elective, students do get a handout describing the elective and what they will be learning. (In 6th grade at Edna Brewer, students get a semester elective and either a full year or another 2 semesters of electives because they only have PE for a semester. My son did get a description of what they could choose from. He chose Band for the year elective and a semester elective that had to do with Science Exploration, but I can’t remember what it was exactly. In 7th grade he just took Band which is for the year, and he will continue with that in 8th grade. I don’t know what other electives Brewer offers.)
However, at the high school level, students have many more choices of classes to take to fulfill the requirements for graduation and for CSU and UC schools. In this case, a course catalog is essential so that students can read a detailed description of what will be studied and whether pre-requisites are necessary. It helps them make informed choices. (It looks much like a college course catalog.)
As for curriculum, many teachers at the beginning of the year send home a classroom plan with a general idea of what students will be studying during the course of the year, what projects they might be doing, what kind of writing they will be doing, what books they might be reading, etc., and what the expectations around homework are along with a description of the teacher’s classroom management, routines, supplies needed, etc. In my school, we are required to send one home with each student for each class and the parents/guardians sign off that they read it and provide basic contact information for the teacher and any other information the teacher requests (such as primary language spoken at home or concerns a parent/guardian has about their student, etc.). I find this a very useful way to introduce my class to both my students and their parents/guardians, and on Back-to-School Night, I can do a more indepth presentation with the understanding that they have already read this, so they know the basics. However, at other schools, this information is presented at Back-to-School Night.
I hope this answers your question.
August 8th, 2010 at 11:43 pm
Yes, you did, but it only brings up more. Namely: -We got no such curriculum at our Elementary School for K (something we got at private pre-K); -If I go to Piedmont High or Piedmont Middle online & look under “Academics” I see complete class descriptions & options. I see nothing similar at Edna Brewer.
Oakland High does have Academics but it is not nearly as clearly listed as Piedmont.
I expect at least the basics, so the school can have the structure to launch from. If a minimum of organization can’t be established, it leads to questions, lack of focus, lack of confidence, & a certain amount of chaos.
Now I realize that presentation is not everything. But this is basic. Curriculum is organization, expectations & goals. I don’t see that on the OUSD websites.
August 9th, 2010 at 6:00 am
Livegreen:
1. Why do you say that OUSD makes it hard for kids to take college classes? I have students who take classes at local community colleges all the time, albeit mostly during the summmer. And the number of kids who are ready for math beyond the AP Calculus BC is so small that it is pretty silly to use availability of such a course as a criterion for selecting a school. Any student who is that advanced is probably in the top 1/10 of one percent, and yes, perhaps a large comprehensive HS is not the best place for him or her (just as it is not the best place for those in the bottom 1/10 of one percent)
2. I agree that the OHS website is not a model of clarity, but I dont get what that says about the school, other than that we are not good at PR – is that a bad thing? BTW, the website is done by someone on a volunteer basis, so it is tough to criticize it harshly.
August 9th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Mr. Danning, I agree with your general point, but don’t be quite so quick to decide that a public school is not the best place for the top 1/10 of one percent of students. The young man widely identified as one of the seven most brilliant math students of the last quarter century was an Oakland public school graduate. See this website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_D._Carroll
August 9th, 2010 at 10:26 am
I should change my wording at the end of #152 to include: or uninformed.
I am sorry if a well-intentioned parent felt attacked, but it is tiresome (even more so as a parent than a teacher) to continually hear all the reasons why people do not send their children to Oakland public schools.
As others have stated above, any student can take classes at community college which they are qualified to take (for math it is a placement test). Many OUSD students opt to take additional classes at Merritt or Laney. Advanced/superior students are able to learn and succeed in OUSD schools. Actually, my concern would be that at some of the smaller hs, less courses are available.
Do some of the private schools have more enrichment classes – absolutely!
The one person who was completely blunt/honest about her choice to send her kids to a private hs (to me), said “I am paying all this money for them to have a social life at school with their friends.” I still think that for the vast majority of kids who leave for hs, this type of thinking (fear of their child being a “minority”) is the underlying reason.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:42 am
Maybe Jenna’s situation is an exceptional one, but she pointed out other Districts enable her to do this & it was a deterrent for her. I realize we’re not speaking to most students or most of where HS efforts/resources should be spent. But since the University would be doing the teaching online, & other school districts are flexible (she sites in her example), why not work with her?
Re. online catalog, Terri brought up the point about Oakland High. As mentioned it’s spelled out better at O-High’s website than at Edna Brewer’s. My comment was expanding to Edna Brewer & all OUSD curriculum. In addition to explaining why Catalogs apply to HS but not Middle, Terri points out that standards are very defined by the State, and curriculum built around that.
Well, the teachers and administration might know that, but the parents don’t.
So if you don’t show the parents a curriculum, how are they supposed to know it exists? How are they supposed to know what their kids are going to be learning?
(Yes, we can ask on an individual basis, but it seems a lot more complicated for the teacher. & A lot less organized).
When considering OUSD (vs. other public schools or private) that’s one of the first things Private Schools offer. So beyond just knowing what is going to be taught, it influences prospective parent’s decisions to attend. We love our first year at Elementary school, but this seems pretty basic to me.
BTW, I meant my comments generally. This is not on topic so, back to Terri’s comments about the Catalog online, and Gordon’s comments about the website being done on a volunteer basis: I don’t know how Piedmont handles it, but maybe OUSD (or a nonprofit they know) might consider helping fund & manage this?
It’s pretty good for a volunteer website, but spelling out the School Catalog & programs is more than PR. It’s valuable research when deciding whether to go to the school, and having the info available for ongoing decisions.
BTW, I don’t think I was criticizing it harshly. & I do see some of the classes spelled out under Academics. Maybe some small additions could just be made to spell out what “Math” coursework is being taught in 9th grade? (For example)
Gordon, you and others have done that very well here. It just helps putting some of the same level of detail on the Website, so parents can use it as an evaluation tool.
August 9th, 2010 at 10:50 am
Katy, Maybe you can take down my duplicate post. Sorry about that. & regarding OaklandTeachers comments, that is valuable information about being able to take extra, college level classes. Thank you for that addition.
August 9th, 2010 at 11:06 am
Livegreen,
I don’t want to belabor this, but I do think that it’s pretty easy to find out what the curriculum is in elementary and middle school. The California Dept. of Education website is easy to access for the standards. At Back-to-School night at our elementary school, the teachers hand out the standards for their grade levels. They also have the books that they are using for teaching and discuss in detail what they will be doing in class. Having said that, I think it is also important for parents/guardians to be involved in their child’s educational experience to the best of their ability, so if you can’t volunteer at the school during the school day because of work or childcare commitments, you can certainly try to attend a PTA meeting (where childcare is offered) if your school has one, or attend a school event, or even just contact the teacher. My children rarely tell me what is going on in school–it’s always, “I forgot” or “nothing”. So it’s up to me to check their binders, their folders or whatever to see what they are doing.
At our middle school, Brewer, more so than at our elementary school, Glenview, teachers use email and google docs to make information available and to respond to teachers. Also, Brewer uses Teacherease, an online grading system so I can keep track of my kid’s grades, email teachers, and discuss with my son what he’s doing in class or why he has a bad grade or even a 0 on something.
I’m not saying that schools shouldn’t make better use of their websites. However, I can honestly say that it is difficult for a school to keep a website up-to-date. We have all experienced huge cuts in personnel. Many teachers don’t have the expertise to keep the website up-to-date, and those that do (my own middle school, like O High, relies on a teacher to do our website, are also teaching full time so they can’t always get around to it. I did a quick perusal of a few middle school websites. Piedmont’s and my own school’s (Cesar Chavez Middle School in Union City) offered the most information. And I will admit that I was surprised by my own school’s website. All that information is new this summer, so someone was very busy! I’m pretty certain that Brewer now has a parent who has volunteered to work on the website this school year.
Having said that, though, I do wish that O High would publish its catalog online as a resource for students and parents/guardians.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:23 pm
Teri:
We are considering Edna Brewer for the 2011-2012 school year and I attended the planning session after sitting in on some 6th grade classes. I have to say that I walked into those classes with the 6th grade standards in my hand to compare the standards to the coursework and while some classes were working on the state standards, other classes were significantly off from the state standards.
Also, I think it is an important planning tool to post on the website what students are expected to learn in a class so that parents can also see if the class, teacher and student are all on track for meeting the objectives.
The weekly progress reports help a parent know if the student is meeting the teacher’s expectations, but it does not discuss at all the state standards in the classroom.
I suggested that the state standards be discussed at a back to school night and be posted on the bulletin board for the wing of the sixth grade classrooms. My suggestion was dismissed.
While I agree that parents should be aware of the state standards, really good schools, those that make sure that all or nearly all students are achieving the state standards, try to be transparent in what the state standards are, how the school is using time, materials (books and supplementary materials), teacher resources, after school help and counselors to support all students.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:25 pm
Giving out the Standards is great. But it doesn’t tell you what courses your children will be taking, and how the district, school & teacher will be meeting those standards.
I’ll go back & look again at the standards we were given, & see how detailed they get. My recollection is not very. If I have further comments I’ll post separately from this thread which is (as I have pointed out) focussed on Oakland High.
Thank you Teri, Karen & other parents for this discussion and your efforts. & Thank you to the teachers, parents & students of O-High for sharing so much valuable information & doing the hard work that is so important for our kids, families, & city.
August 9th, 2010 at 12:26 pm
I understand that for most public schools, the school based websites (not the OUSD official site) are designed and run by volunteers to whom we owe gratitude. Edna Brewer has enjoyed the work of some dedicated and talented parent volunteers to help with their website. I do not wish to undermine their contribution and do not possess the skills to contribute to their efforts.
That said, I think I understand Livegreen’s point about how information is presented and how accessible it is to parents. These websites may be a first impression regarding a school, and an ongoing resource to the parents/students. A few days ago when the topic on this thread turned to the sequence of math, I became interested in figuring out what math curriculum Edna Brewer, my child’s school, offered and if this differed from other schools. I tried to look this info up on our school website for EB and could not find it. It may be there, but I could not figure out where. I then went to Piedmont Middle School and easily found a graphic that showed how students progress through middle school. I think it showed how math sequenced for kids on average track, remedial and advanced. It was really helpful.
Does the lack of a link to the math curriculum on Edna Brewer’s website really reflect a disorganization or underlying chaos in this school’s ability to teach math? I don’t think so. If I’m not mistaken EB has the same curriculum as any other middle school, in or out of the district.
Does the public face (via website) make any difference to parents? It does for me. Last year I worked with Brewer’s elementary feeder schools so that they could post information about Brewer for incoming middle school students and was amazed at how beautiful, readable, and easy to navigate some of the websites or weekly schoolwide emails were (Peralta Elementary’s is pretty fabulous). Some feeder schools did not have a website or even an email list from what the office staff told me. More recently, I looked at Oakland Tech’s site and could see the courses for each department and the pictures of their staff (although I tried to do this again today and just got a fatal error message). For me, these public web sites really do make a significant difference and I think Livegreen’s message is important if we are interested in getting parents to consider any of their local public schools.
August 9th, 2010 at 2:36 pm
Debora, I know that at Edna Brewer, teachers post a learning target each day and a Do Now and that both are supposed to reflect some aspect of the standards. (I think other schools do this as well.)
As a teacher, I might choose to explore something I think is vitally important for my students but isn’t necessarily in the standards (for example, poetry writing is not a standard in California in middle or high school, although poetry analysis is.)
In terms of teaching to the standards, some standards are much easier to teach in an isolated lesson or a short series of lessons than others. For example, the history standards for 8th grade are either vague, paint a broad brushstroke, or are almost ridiculously specific. In my own classroom, I don’t teach to the standards every day, and sometimes, identifying them might actually impede the far greater lesson that involves more critical thinking. For example, in 8th grade history, standard 8.4.1:Students analyze the aspirations and ideals of the people of the new nation: Describe the country’s physical landscapes, political divisions, and territorial expansion during the terms of the first four presidents–I spend weeks on this. Standard 2 addresses Andrew Jackson’s bank policy (which quite frankly I barely mention and instead choose to focus on Indian Removal and the Trail of Tears because those are far more important events, in my opinion, in the history of our nation. For Language Arts, I weave back and forth through the standards the whole year. There isn’t necessarily a linear approach to the standards in Language Arts, as far as I’m concerned.
I can’t speak for Math and Science–which I suspect have more specifically-stated standards.
I hope you do continue to consider Edna Brewer for your child. I think there are many good, dedicated teachers there, especially, but not limited to their Band teacher. Plus, I know there is a commitment on the part of the teachers and the administration to bring greater rigor and creativity to their teaching. Last year, the teachers and admin. presented a document to the parents/guardians at a very well-attended meeting seeking our input on their collaborative effort to create a vision and a plan. This was well-received by the parents.
August 9th, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Steve Weinberg:
Your point is well taken. Perhaps an even broader point is that parents should take a deep breath and relax a bit. It makes little sense to worry that a student will be hopelessly crippled if he or she does not take class X in high school.
And one additional point re: an advantage that Oakland High has over Tech and Skyline and most private schools: Oakland High is majority Asian-American. In a world where China will be an increasinly important global player over the next 50 years, I imagine that a student who has spent 4 years in that cultural mileu will acquire certain advantages not available elsewhere.
September 26th, 2010 at 2:58 pm
I’m a sophmore at Oakland High and I know Oak High is an amazing school. We may lack a music class due to funds but instead of sulking about the cut we started an after school class/club where you can practice your instrument. Everytime a student at Oakland high has a problem someone is there to help, if it’s a teacher or another student, nobody is alone. Most teachers at that school help us emotionally while keeping us in track of our standereds.
As you know a week ago Raymond Justice was shot and killed last week. The school was sad and, at the students surprise, so were the teachers. They were crying along side us and allowing us to take in the fact that someone we knew and loved was gone. They didn’t rush us to do our work or yell at us for being so emotional, I found that captivating.
The diversity at Oakland High is also one of the best qualities. We don’t measure a person by their beauty, skin color, or wealth, everyone understands that outer beauty is just that, outer beauty, it doesn’t necessarily mean you have inner beauty. If you walk through Oakland High you’ll see everybody talking, laughing, and playing around with different races, sizes, intelligence. We accept that being different is a good thing.
Oakland High may have issues but we’re on our way to solving them. Students care because people haven’t given up on us, have you?