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	<title>Comments on: A new coalition to bring back adult education</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30899</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 23:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[typos again!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>typos again!</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30898</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 23:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30898</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry about the typos above.  The iron curtain couple made their money in apartment buildings I hears. The bay area is full of refugees doing just fine. Africans, Eastern Europeans Central and South Americans.

No, we don&#039;t need to use the treasury to provide services, they can work it out with their sponsors - or find someone to take care of them privately such as the churches.  the have for generations and the ties they make to their sponsors ensure no loud music and loud clothing, etc.  Not like the home grown ghetto trash who think they can say and do whatever they want and take money from the treasury at the same time.

People value nothing they get for free and act the worse for it. No more government benefit schemes, roll back all the programs we have set up since 1960.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the typos above.  The iron curtain couple made their money in apartment buildings I hears. The bay area is full of refugees doing just fine. Africans, Eastern Europeans Central and South Americans.</p>
<p>No, we don&#8217;t need to use the treasury to provide services, they can work it out with their sponsors &#8211; or find someone to take care of them privately such as the churches.  the have for generations and the ties they make to their sponsors ensure no loud music and loud clothing, etc.  Not like the home grown ghetto trash who think they can say and do whatever they want and take money from the treasury at the same time.</p>
<p>People value nothing they get for free and act the worse for it. No more government benefit schemes, roll back all the programs we have set up since 1960.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30897</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 23:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30897</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My family sponsored refugees from the iron curtain during the 1960s. They didn&#039;t go on welfare, and I believe the terms of our sponsorship was that may parents would be financially liable to the government if they did. She found work as a housekeeper and he worked as a plumber and gardener. They had nothing but the clothes on their backs. No children, I think they were in their mid 20s. 

They are Millionaires now. Real Estate, you know. Not sure how they did it. Other refugees here without any family I&#039;ve met. They were parents of children I went to school with. Millionaires. He became an engineer, she a bay area chemist, teacher and politician. They did no remedial ed but did go to state universities. Not that you mention it I&#039;ve run into a lot of penniless immigrants growing up. I met Joyce Kennard - she&#039;s on the CA Supreme Court. I believe she came to the USA as a refugee and wound up in Los Angeles with no relatives and a false leg, pennyless. She went to state schools also. The list goes on.

Remedial Ed, Adult Ed and ESL is not a mandated service of the taxpayers. Anybody who wants that can pay for it or go to church schools. Or get it from private charities.

Our public funds are for the public school districts K-12 and the state colleges and universities which are not for illegal aliens either. It&#039;s been this way for 100 years. We do not need to change this or add extra taxpayer funded doles to refugees. Whoever sponsors refugees can pay for them themselves. And one here they can work and see to their own arrangements. Refugees do get to attend school alongside citizens. So they are well provided for. And they seem to be doing just fine, actually better than the black folks I see. So you see, we need not worry about them (refugees) at all. Worry about the blacks. They are the endangered species - especially the black males.

No more taxes, no more services paid for by the taxpayers.

Brave New World!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My family sponsored refugees from the iron curtain during the 1960s. They didn&#8217;t go on welfare, and I believe the terms of our sponsorship was that may parents would be financially liable to the government if they did. She found work as a housekeeper and he worked as a plumber and gardener. They had nothing but the clothes on their backs. No children, I think they were in their mid 20s. </p>
<p>They are Millionaires now. Real Estate, you know. Not sure how they did it. Other refugees here without any family I&#8217;ve met. They were parents of children I went to school with. Millionaires. He became an engineer, she a bay area chemist, teacher and politician. They did no remedial ed but did go to state universities. Not that you mention it I&#8217;ve run into a lot of penniless immigrants growing up. I met Joyce Kennard &#8211; she&#8217;s on the CA Supreme Court. I believe she came to the USA as a refugee and wound up in Los Angeles with no relatives and a false leg, pennyless. She went to state schools also. The list goes on.</p>
<p>Remedial Ed, Adult Ed and ESL is not a mandated service of the taxpayers. Anybody who wants that can pay for it or go to church schools. Or get it from private charities.</p>
<p>Our public funds are for the public school districts K-12 and the state colleges and universities which are not for illegal aliens either. It&#8217;s been this way for 100 years. We do not need to change this or add extra taxpayer funded doles to refugees. Whoever sponsors refugees can pay for them themselves. And one here they can work and see to their own arrangements. Refugees do get to attend school alongside citizens. So they are well provided for. And they seem to be doing just fine, actually better than the black folks I see. So you see, we need not worry about them (refugees) at all. Worry about the blacks. They are the endangered species &#8211; especially the black males.</p>
<p>No more taxes, no more services paid for by the taxpayers.</p>
<p>Brave New World!</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn Noble</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30887</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn Noble</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30887</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wait a minute. Whom are we talking about?  I have been an ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher for decades.  I have taught both elementary school children and the adult members of their families, and I am here to tell you that one of the strongest influences on a child’s educational career is his or her family’s positive engagement with the schools.  Other things being equal, the more that the families are involved with education, both their own and their children’s, the more likely that their children will succeed in school and go on to lead productive lives.

	The other group I have taught is adult refugees.  These people were invited here by our government to have a chance at a decent life after being denied that opportunity in their county of origin .  Because of the turmoil often surrounding their need to leave their homeland, many of these people have few skills, practically no money, and no way to learn the language of this country unless they have access to adult education.  

	These are the people I have taught in numerous school districts across California.  I believe from the bottom of my heart that they deserve a chance to better their opportunities to participate in the life of this country and to give their children a decent shot at the American dream.

                                A veteran ESL teacher]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait a minute. Whom are we talking about?  I have been an ESL (English as a Second Language) teacher for decades.  I have taught both elementary school children and the adult members of their families, and I am here to tell you that one of the strongest influences on a child’s educational career is his or her family’s positive engagement with the schools.  Other things being equal, the more that the families are involved with education, both their own and their children’s, the more likely that their children will succeed in school and go on to lead productive lives.</p>
<p>	The other group I have taught is adult refugees.  These people were invited here by our government to have a chance at a decent life after being denied that opportunity in their county of origin .  Because of the turmoil often surrounding their need to leave their homeland, many of these people have few skills, practically no money, and no way to learn the language of this country unless they have access to adult education.  </p>
<p>	These are the people I have taught in numerous school districts across California.  I believe from the bottom of my heart that they deserve a chance to better their opportunities to participate in the life of this country and to give their children a decent shot at the American dream.</p>
<p>                                A veteran ESL teacher</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30875</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Having said the above I wouldn&#039;t mind limited and demonstration projects being put on periodically (not permanently) for adult ed. The point is that when childhood&#039;s over, the adults in question are on their own and the public treasury owes them absolutely nothing. That message needs to be sent out early and often.

They can join the Salvation Army or the US Army if they can&#039;t make it in the Brave New World. They have no rights to any public support or public funds. 

To do otherwise is to invite generations of welfare parasites, like we have since welfare was turned into and entitlement in the mid 1960&#039;s Great Society legislation. Now that we can see the error in that it&#039;s time to cut back and cut off the dole.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having said the above I wouldn&#8217;t mind limited and demonstration projects being put on periodically (not permanently) for adult ed. The point is that when childhood&#8217;s over, the adults in question are on their own and the public treasury owes them absolutely nothing. That message needs to be sent out early and often.</p>
<p>They can join the Salvation Army or the US Army if they can&#8217;t make it in the Brave New World. They have no rights to any public support or public funds. </p>
<p>To do otherwise is to invite generations of welfare parasites, like we have since welfare was turned into and entitlement in the mid 1960&#8242;s Great Society legislation. Now that we can see the error in that it&#8217;s time to cut back and cut off the dole.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30873</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bob Mandel:   Why should the taxpayers be paying for any of this?

And what is the problem with 35% of &quot;the youth&quot; not finishing high school? At least that percentage of Oakland youth do not have the cognitive ability to manage CA High School coursework. They should not have a diploma. If the diploma is to mean anything, people must fail and be denied diplomas because the don&#039;t have the chops to earn one. You don&#039;t get the diploma for just showing up. These people you speak of need to get out and work at whatever menial job they can find and work their way up from there with on the job training and experience and any classroom work they want to go to and pay for on their own time.

The educational budget we are going to have for K-12 is to be spent there, not on pursuing adult failures and pouring taxpayer money over their heads.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob Mandel:   Why should the taxpayers be paying for any of this?</p>
<p>And what is the problem with 35% of &#8220;the youth&#8221; not finishing high school? At least that percentage of Oakland youth do not have the cognitive ability to manage CA High School coursework. They should not have a diploma. If the diploma is to mean anything, people must fail and be denied diplomas because the don&#8217;t have the chops to earn one. You don&#8217;t get the diploma for just showing up. These people you speak of need to get out and work at whatever menial job they can find and work their way up from there with on the job training and experience and any classroom work they want to go to and pay for on their own time.</p>
<p>The educational budget we are going to have for K-12 is to be spent there, not on pursuing adult failures and pouring taxpayer money over their heads.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Mandel</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30872</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Mandel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 15:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We Adult teachers strongly believe that with the District having received more than it expected in the State budget, significant parts of the AE program can be immediately restored.  All educators agree that a parent who is going to school herself or himself is much more likely to be engaged in helping their child in school; and a family with an employed parent---helped by the English or job training taught in AE-- provides a much more stable home environment which also contributes directly to a young person&#039;s school success.

There is another way that ESL and other adult classes can be offered right now.  Over a dozen of us have been assigned to the High School Credit Recovery Program.  This serves young people who have dropped out and want to come back to get a High School diploma or those currently enrolled who need to make-up credits in classes they previously failed.  The program is tremendously important in a city where about 35% of our youth never finish High School.

At the same time, these classes are heavily underenrolled, particularly from 10:45-3:30.  Adult Ed teachers through our union (OEA) have formally suggested to the OUSD Administration that a certain percentage of us who are willing be reassigned to teach ESL either through the Family Literacy program or in ESL classes open to all. Thus students currently enrolled in Credit Recovery (with lots of room for expansion) and students who currently have no opportunity for school, particularly in ESL, could both be offered classes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We Adult teachers strongly believe that with the District having received more than it expected in the State budget, significant parts of the AE program can be immediately restored.  All educators agree that a parent who is going to school herself or himself is much more likely to be engaged in helping their child in school; and a family with an employed parent&#8212;helped by the English or job training taught in AE&#8211; provides a much more stable home environment which also contributes directly to a young person&#8217;s school success.</p>
<p>There is another way that ESL and other adult classes can be offered right now.  Over a dozen of us have been assigned to the High School Credit Recovery Program.  This serves young people who have dropped out and want to come back to get a High School diploma or those currently enrolled who need to make-up credits in classes they previously failed.  The program is tremendously important in a city where about 35% of our youth never finish High School.</p>
<p>At the same time, these classes are heavily underenrolled, particularly from 10:45-3:30.  Adult Ed teachers through our union (OEA) have formally suggested to the OUSD Administration that a certain percentage of us who are willing be reassigned to teach ESL either through the Family Literacy program or in ESL classes open to all. Thus students currently enrolled in Credit Recovery (with lots of room for expansion) and students who currently have no opportunity for school, particularly in ESL, could both be offered classes.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30868</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30868</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Concerned Teacher: You don&#039;t get to dictate to other how they spend their money.

&quot;Humanity&quot; may be your concept for waste and decadence. It&#039;s not what I say that word means.

Maybe you should have a look at &quot;The virtue of selfishness&quot; by Ayn Rand. Or just study economics. This is a supposedly free country and other people do not dance to your tune. Your concept of &quot;help&quot; is nothing other than domination, which is always backed up by a police state. Yes, you&#039;d need that police state to collect the taxes and make sure the recipients of your &quot;help&quot; don&#039;t get &quot;discriminated&quot; against as they tear their communities apart.

And as far as &quot;help the world&quot; - by that do you mean interfere with the world?

I rather think you are a statist, a socialist, a collectivist, a Marxist. You coat those concepts in terms of &quot;helping&quot; people until you dominate all life.

No thanks. You can&#039;t get elected, you can&#039;t stay elected. Your policy only brings doom, across history and even now. Those of us old enough to remember what life was like in the mid 20th century prefer the opportunities then to the straightjackets being passed around now.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerned Teacher: You don&#8217;t get to dictate to other how they spend their money.</p>
<p>&#8220;Humanity&#8221; may be your concept for waste and decadence. It&#8217;s not what I say that word means.</p>
<p>Maybe you should have a look at &#8220;The virtue of selfishness&#8221; by Ayn Rand. Or just study economics. This is a supposedly free country and other people do not dance to your tune. Your concept of &#8220;help&#8221; is nothing other than domination, which is always backed up by a police state. Yes, you&#8217;d need that police state to collect the taxes and make sure the recipients of your &#8220;help&#8221; don&#8217;t get &#8220;discriminated&#8221; against as they tear their communities apart.</p>
<p>And as far as &#8220;help the world&#8221; &#8211; by that do you mean interfere with the world?</p>
<p>I rather think you are a statist, a socialist, a collectivist, a Marxist. You coat those concepts in terms of &#8220;helping&#8221; people until you dominate all life.</p>
<p>No thanks. You can&#8217;t get elected, you can&#8217;t stay elected. Your policy only brings doom, across history and even now. Those of us old enough to remember what life was like in the mid 20th century prefer the opportunities then to the straightjackets being passed around now.</p>
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		<title>By: Concerned teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30854</link>
		<dc:creator>Concerned teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 06:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30854</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What better way to spend money than to help others, especially those in need. What better way to spend your life than to act in compassion. What better way to help the world than to make space for individuals to grow and thrive.
Much better than waging war in Iraq, Afghanistan,spending money for machines and more machines.
Make space for humanity in yourself, your heart, this world.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What better way to spend money than to help others, especially those in need. What better way to spend your life than to act in compassion. What better way to help the world than to make space for individuals to grow and thrive.<br />
Much better than waging war in Iraq, Afghanistan,spending money for machines and more machines.<br />
Make space for humanity in yourself, your heart, this world.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: OaklandNeighbor</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/10/18/a-new-coalition-to-bring-back-adult-education/comment-page-1/#comment-30834</link>
		<dc:creator>OaklandNeighbor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Oct 2010 15:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=10708#comment-30834</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Oakland Teacher
Lazy Parents is what produces under achieving kids. If your a teacher here in Oakland you should know this by now. Kids live a block away from the school they attend yet for some reason they&#039;re late to class and what&#039;s worst absent for unexplainable reasons.I personally know parents that have elementary education only. They have their children at charter schools that have a strict discipline when it comes to attendance. Those charter school are some of the highest performing school here in Oakland.
If we continue feeling sorry for this ppl I&#039;m afraid that our country is in for a big change.
 All I&#039;m saying is that the K-12 need the $$$ for classroom material, and instead of funding adult ed. I would rather see the $$$ going into K-12 classrooms.
&quot;If you want adult education, pay for it!&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Oakland Teacher<br />
Lazy Parents is what produces under achieving kids. If your a teacher here in Oakland you should know this by now. Kids live a block away from the school they attend yet for some reason they&#8217;re late to class and what&#8217;s worst absent for unexplainable reasons.I personally know parents that have elementary education only. They have their children at charter schools that have a strict discipline when it comes to attendance. Those charter school are some of the highest performing school here in Oakland.<br />
If we continue feeling sorry for this ppl I&#8217;m afraid that our country is in for a big change.<br />
 All I&#8217;m saying is that the K-12 need the $$$ for classroom material, and instead of funding adult ed. I would rather see the $$$ going into K-12 classrooms.<br />
&#8220;If you want adult education, pay for it!&#8221;</p>
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