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	<title>Comments on: Settlement in free public schools case</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-33470</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Jan 2011 18:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-33470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No teacher should be forced to collect money from students. It puts pressure on students that is not right because of a teacher&#039;s position of authority (issues the grade). Districts may now have to fund the basics in the classroom as legally responsible. Districts have flouted the law and made out like bandits generating money from illegal practices.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No teacher should be forced to collect money from students. It puts pressure on students that is not right because of a teacher&#8217;s position of authority (issues the grade). Districts may now have to fund the basics in the classroom as legally responsible. Districts have flouted the law and made out like bandits generating money from illegal practices.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-33120</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 18:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-33120</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I work in a California public library, and one of the worst problems we see is the inequity of advanced classes that often require materials outside of the &quot;required&quot; text.  Many teachers assign out-of-print materials that must be purchased or checked out from a library.  Libraries frequently do not have enough copies to cover 4 or 5 students let alone 4 or 5 classes needing to read a book.  The economically disadvantaged student ends up not reading the material or waiting months to get it from the library.  Schools need to start understanding that they must provide all the materials for students and the public needs to accept responsibility to raise funds in an equitable manner to provide for this.  There are some tough questions to ask in these tough economic times: do we need all these AP classes in the first place?  Would focusing on vocational arts bring about better opportunity for the majority of students (and really doing so in an academic manner)?  Should schools support sports to the degree they do, at the expense of other classes?  Can we alter teaching methods to cover necessary subjects less expensively?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in a California public library, and one of the worst problems we see is the inequity of advanced classes that often require materials outside of the &#8220;required&#8221; text.  Many teachers assign out-of-print materials that must be purchased or checked out from a library.  Libraries frequently do not have enough copies to cover 4 or 5 students let alone 4 or 5 classes needing to read a book.  The economically disadvantaged student ends up not reading the material or waiting months to get it from the library.  Schools need to start understanding that they must provide all the materials for students and the public needs to accept responsibility to raise funds in an equitable manner to provide for this.  There are some tough questions to ask in these tough economic times: do we need all these AP classes in the first place?  Would focusing on vocational arts bring about better opportunity for the majority of students (and really doing so in an academic manner)?  Should schools support sports to the degree they do, at the expense of other classes?  Can we alter teaching methods to cover necessary subjects less expensively?</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32693</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 08:25:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oakland Teacher:

That sounds like the same as charging; they are not providing students the books they are required to read.  I just looked at the College Board site for AP Lit - it doesn&#039;t require 10 novels, and the sample syllabi that they post seem to indicate that a teacher can easily put together a syllabus composed of the two district adopted texts (see http://publicportal.ousd.k12.ca.us/199410824125026113/lib/199410824125026113/Core_Adopted_Materials_High_School_2010-2011.pdf), works in the public domain, and works for which multiple copies are readily available in the district. http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/courses/english_lit.html

So it seems to me that Skyline is not really acting entirely appropriately.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oakland Teacher:</p>
<p>That sounds like the same as charging; they are not providing students the books they are required to read.  I just looked at the College Board site for AP Lit &#8211; it doesn&#8217;t require 10 novels, and the sample syllabi that they post seem to indicate that a teacher can easily put together a syllabus composed of the two district adopted texts (see <a href="http://publicportal.ousd.k12.ca.us/199410824125026113/lib/199410824125026113/Core_Adopted_Materials_High_School_2010-2011.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://publicportal.ousd.k12.ca.us/199410824125026113/lib/199410824125026113/Core_Adopted_Materials_High_School_2010-2011.pdf</a>), works in the public domain, and works for which multiple copies are readily available in the district. <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/courses/english_lit.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.collegeboard.com/html/apcourseaudit/courses/english_lit.html</a></p>
<p>So it seems to me that Skyline is not really acting entirely appropriately.</p>
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		<title>By: Oakland Teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32688</link>
		<dc:creator>Oakland Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 03:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32688</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[They are not actually charging for books; they give you a list of the books (about 10) you need to read and it is up to the student to figure out how to access the books. They can get them in the library, borrow them, buy used or new.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are not actually charging for books; they give you a list of the books (about 10) you need to read and it is up to the student to figure out how to access the books. They can get them in the library, borrow them, buy used or new.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32686</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Dec 2010 02:44:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oakland Teacher:

I didn&#039;t see the student&#039;s comment, but that just points out the need for the lawsuit -- a student being asked to pay for a book for AP lit? That is blatantly illegal, and I&#039;ve never heard of it at Oakland High. It sounds like poor planning at Skyline, more than anything else. Heck, for every kid that takes an AP class, the school doesn&#039;t have to buy a regular textbook, so I doubt that AP Lit is much more expensive to teach than is regular English.  Even assuming that it costs an extra $100 per kid (which it shouldn&#039;t), that is $6000 for 2 AP Lit sections, and $9000 for three.  Even with budget cuts, that is a drop in the bucket for a school the size of Skyline. So, if they were charging kids for books, there is something very, very wrong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oakland Teacher:</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t see the student&#8217;s comment, but that just points out the need for the lawsuit &#8212; a student being asked to pay for a book for AP lit? That is blatantly illegal, and I&#8217;ve never heard of it at Oakland High. It sounds like poor planning at Skyline, more than anything else. Heck, for every kid that takes an AP class, the school doesn&#8217;t have to buy a regular textbook, so I doubt that AP Lit is much more expensive to teach than is regular English.  Even assuming that it costs an extra $100 per kid (which it shouldn&#8217;t), that is $6000 for 2 AP Lit sections, and $9000 for three.  Even with budget cuts, that is a drop in the bucket for a school the size of Skyline. So, if they were charging kids for books, there is something very, very wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Oakland Teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32681</link>
		<dc:creator>Oakland Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 16:34:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gordan - please read the Skyline Student #14 comment about needing to buy books for AP English. I hope you are not going to ask them to &quot;chill&quot; as well. Kids are often asked (and not just at OUSD schools) to come up with books for AP classes. Although I am not in favor of breaking the law, and agree with the intent, I am very worried about the outcome of implementing it. Having it tag onto Williams is really going to give it teeth, as well as the means to investigate complaints. This could be the end of many curricular and extra-curricular activities. 

I do want to say that I have always been offended by things like being directed to purchase ridiculous things at hills elementary schools, e.g. Creative Memories scrapbooking supplies for a family history project, Teddy Bears on field trips to the factory (who wants their kid to be the only one not getting a bear?), etc... I had to pay hundreds for the fabulous trips to multiple day trips, and could ill afford it on a teacher&#039;s salary. The people who had less only had to come up with half the going rate, but I imagine it hurt even more.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordan &#8211; please read the Skyline Student #14 comment about needing to buy books for AP English. I hope you are not going to ask them to &#8220;chill&#8221; as well. Kids are often asked (and not just at OUSD schools) to come up with books for AP classes. Although I am not in favor of breaking the law, and agree with the intent, I am very worried about the outcome of implementing it. Having it tag onto Williams is really going to give it teeth, as well as the means to investigate complaints. This could be the end of many curricular and extra-curricular activities. </p>
<p>I do want to say that I have always been offended by things like being directed to purchase ridiculous things at hills elementary schools, e.g. Creative Memories scrapbooking supplies for a family history project, Teddy Bears on field trips to the factory (who wants their kid to be the only one not getting a bear?), etc&#8230; I had to pay hundreds for the fabulous trips to multiple day trips, and could ill afford it on a teacher&#8217;s salary. The people who had less only had to come up with half the going rate, but I imagine it hurt even more.</p>
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		<title>By: Ms. McLaughlin</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32677</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. McLaughlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 08:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Black defendants don&#039;t like rabbits?  I&#039;m not reading this entire thread.

Maybe it&#039;s positive fallout from the Williams settlement, but in my experience Oakland students all receive copies of the books they&#039;re expected to read.  The football players don&#039;t pay for their uniforms or supplies, and while I don&#039;t know who does, there are concessions sold at every game to help fund the team.  The field trips are paid for with school or district funds, or with grants, and some of the places they go are free.  I believe parents may be asked to chip in for some of the overnight trips, but those aren&#039;t school time events, and there are exceptions made for students who just don&#039;t have the funds.

We might not be the national norm, though.  There are certainly teachers who spend too much of their own money on school supplies, and districts that allow them to do so, and probably districts that budget accordingly.

I wonder how this will play out in schools where parents are required to perform X numbers of volunteer work as a condition of their children&#039;s enrollment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Black defendants don&#8217;t like rabbits?  I&#8217;m not reading this entire thread.</p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s positive fallout from the Williams settlement, but in my experience Oakland students all receive copies of the books they&#8217;re expected to read.  The football players don&#8217;t pay for their uniforms or supplies, and while I don&#8217;t know who does, there are concessions sold at every game to help fund the team.  The field trips are paid for with school or district funds, or with grants, and some of the places they go are free.  I believe parents may be asked to chip in for some of the overnight trips, but those aren&#8217;t school time events, and there are exceptions made for students who just don&#8217;t have the funds.</p>
<p>We might not be the national norm, though.  There are certainly teachers who spend too much of their own money on school supplies, and districts that allow them to do so, and probably districts that budget accordingly.</p>
<p>I wonder how this will play out in schools where parents are required to perform X numbers of volunteer work as a condition of their children&#8217;s enrollment.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32674</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 03:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hot R.:

All the ACLU seems to have done is to ensure that schools are following state law.  If it is truly a problem, then the law should be changed.  But schools should certainly not be ignoring laws. I would think that we can all agree on that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hot R.:</p>
<p>All the ACLU seems to have done is to ensure that schools are following state law.  If it is truly a problem, then the law should be changed.  But schools should certainly not be ignoring laws. I would think that we can all agree on that.</p>
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		<title>By: Hot r</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32670</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Dec 2010 01:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32670</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the  interesting question the settlement raises is what about discrepancies between schools in the same district?  there are huge differences  between Montera or any hills school and the flatland schools.  The PTAs at the hills schools raise money for musical instruments, field trips, teacher lunches, new computers , gifts for teachers, basketballs, copy supplies and many other extras that far exceed the flatland schools a slitty to raise money.

In Alameda, elementary schools on the East (richer) side of town have art auctions where elementary school art is auctioned off to the highest bidder.  At the other end of town there is not enough money for art supplies, and parents would never think about &quot;buying&quot; their children&#039;s art.  the charter school students at Alameda Community Learning Center rode to the field trips in double decker buses, while their regular school counterparts walk to catch AC Transit and BART to go on field trips.  

Think about Prom.  How can a school in good conscience charge $75 to $100 dollars for a kid to go to Prom knowing the kid is on free/reduced lunch?  Should the school now pay for this or should Prom now be cancelled?  what about the dress or tuxedo?  does the school pay for this too?

Teachers have to hustle to raise funds for field trips, supplies, computers, test fees,  conferences, and curriculum.  this has now become a standard pRt of the job.  this is whY the ACLU does not recognize in bringing cases like this.  the public schools are quite literally starving to death.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the  interesting question the settlement raises is what about discrepancies between schools in the same district?  there are huge differences  between Montera or any hills school and the flatland schools.  The PTAs at the hills schools raise money for musical instruments, field trips, teacher lunches, new computers , gifts for teachers, basketballs, copy supplies and many other extras that far exceed the flatland schools a slitty to raise money.</p>
<p>In Alameda, elementary schools on the East (richer) side of town have art auctions where elementary school art is auctioned off to the highest bidder.  At the other end of town there is not enough money for art supplies, and parents would never think about &#8220;buying&#8221; their children&#8217;s art.  the charter school students at Alameda Community Learning Center rode to the field trips in double decker buses, while their regular school counterparts walk to catch AC Transit and BART to go on field trips.  </p>
<p>Think about Prom.  How can a school in good conscience charge $75 to $100 dollars for a kid to go to Prom knowing the kid is on free/reduced lunch?  Should the school now pay for this or should Prom now be cancelled?  what about the dress or tuxedo?  does the school pay for this too?</p>
<p>Teachers have to hustle to raise funds for field trips, supplies, computers, test fees,  conferences, and curriculum.  this has now become a standard pRt of the job.  this is whY the ACLU does not recognize in bringing cases like this.  the public schools are quite literally starving to death.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/09/settlement-in-free-public-schools-case/comment-page-1/#comment-32668</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Dec 2010 21:40:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11224#comment-32668</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An afterthought.  I often see black defendants complaining about not liking their lawyer. They don&#039;t like some of the best most competent people in the courthouse, the people who can pull a rabbit out of the hat, the people who can maybe save their stupid behinds.

The reason is they don&#039;t like what they don&#039;t identify with. And they have been carefully trained by their public schools to put their own personal pleasures and preferences above all else.

On the other hand they just fall in love with some of the most destructive and incompetent lawyers - because they tell them exactly what they want to hear untill it&#039;s too late to save them.

Pepe, I wasn&#039;t annoyed with you personally - it&#039;s just the &quot;I wouldn&#039;t want you&quot; comment is exactly what I&#039;m getting to with the black students. This type of thinking is learned in poor schools and leads to the bad results the blacks wind up with across the board. 

In my experience they are just not treated as if they are going to be needed, important or valuable to anybody - it&#039;s reflected in their lack of caution, they are not being taught in the way (for example) most of the jewish kids are.

And the difference is evident in all aspects of their behavior by age 18. Crossing the street, for example.

No amount of forcing the public schools to &quot;equalize&quot; all their students is going to stop this destructive process. My advice to black families is get your kids out of OUSD yesterday and put them in a good Charter. They don&#039;t need this kind of &quot;equality&quot;. It&#039;s bad for them.

Brave New World.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An afterthought.  I often see black defendants complaining about not liking their lawyer. They don&#8217;t like some of the best most competent people in the courthouse, the people who can pull a rabbit out of the hat, the people who can maybe save their stupid behinds.</p>
<p>The reason is they don&#8217;t like what they don&#8217;t identify with. And they have been carefully trained by their public schools to put their own personal pleasures and preferences above all else.</p>
<p>On the other hand they just fall in love with some of the most destructive and incompetent lawyers &#8211; because they tell them exactly what they want to hear untill it&#8217;s too late to save them.</p>
<p>Pepe, I wasn&#8217;t annoyed with you personally &#8211; it&#8217;s just the &#8220;I wouldn&#8217;t want you&#8221; comment is exactly what I&#8217;m getting to with the black students. This type of thinking is learned in poor schools and leads to the bad results the blacks wind up with across the board. </p>
<p>In my experience they are just not treated as if they are going to be needed, important or valuable to anybody &#8211; it&#8217;s reflected in their lack of caution, they are not being taught in the way (for example) most of the jewish kids are.</p>
<p>And the difference is evident in all aspects of their behavior by age 18. Crossing the street, for example.</p>
<p>No amount of forcing the public schools to &#8220;equalize&#8221; all their students is going to stop this destructive process. My advice to black families is get your kids out of OUSD yesterday and put them in a good Charter. They don&#8217;t need this kind of &#8220;equality&#8221;. It&#8217;s bad for them.</p>
<p>Brave New World.</p>
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