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	<title>Comments on: Oakland&#8217;s middle school &#8220;brain drain&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32934</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2010 16:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32934</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steve Sailer has an interesting article on VDARE.Com comparing education scores from the USA sorted by race with foreign scores.

The point of which is that the USA education system is not doing badly after all as long as you exclude the black numbers. An interesting concept. My view of the Brave New World we are creating in the USA is that the blacks are being allowed to hang themselves - both in the schools and in the Black Run Cities - as the USA splits into separate societies sorted by birth with different language and mores. For all the hand wringing about how tough things are, those in the know can see that&#039;s not true when you eliminate the &quot;other&quot; part of the country.  Sort of like South Africa during aparthied.

Here&#039;s the link,

http://www.vdare.com/sailer/101219_pisa.htm

In the future we might start looking for more stats that are broken out by race to see the trends.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Sailer has an interesting article on VDARE.Com comparing education scores from the USA sorted by race with foreign scores.</p>
<p>The point of which is that the USA education system is not doing badly after all as long as you exclude the black numbers. An interesting concept. My view of the Brave New World we are creating in the USA is that the blacks are being allowed to hang themselves &#8211; both in the schools and in the Black Run Cities &#8211; as the USA splits into separate societies sorted by birth with different language and mores. For all the hand wringing about how tough things are, those in the know can see that&#8217;s not true when you eliminate the &#8220;other&#8221; part of the country.  Sort of like South Africa during aparthied.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the link,</p>
<p><a href="http://www.vdare.com/sailer/101219_pisa.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.vdare.com/sailer/101219_pisa.htm</a></p>
<p>In the future we might start looking for more stats that are broken out by race to see the trends.</p>
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		<title>By: Ramona</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32745</link>
		<dc:creator>Ramona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tony Smith said that part of the cause that OUSD middle and high school scores have dropped were because of the brain drain? 

C&#039;mon! What about the rates of failure, dropouts etc before school alternatives exisited? It isnt like OUSD middle and high school students got ripped off in recent times! This is hostorical in districts like OUSD!

OUSD does a fine enough job of taking good little kids, and dumbing them down throughout their trajectory in OUSD.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony Smith said that part of the cause that OUSD middle and high school scores have dropped were because of the brain drain? </p>
<p>C&#8217;mon! What about the rates of failure, dropouts etc before school alternatives exisited? It isnt like OUSD middle and high school students got ripped off in recent times! This is hostorical in districts like OUSD!</p>
<p>OUSD does a fine enough job of taking good little kids, and dumbing them down throughout their trajectory in OUSD.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32743</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 23:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right, it doesn&#039;t break the figures down by age. I&#039;ll see what I can find out. But I wouldn&#039;t assume that middle and high school English learners are immigrants. Check out this L.A. Times story on &quot;long-term English language learners.&quot;

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/28/local/la-me-0528-english-20100528

&lt;blockquote&gt;Nearly 60% of English-language learners in California&#039;s high schools have failed to become proficient in English despite more than six years of a U.S. education, according to a study released Thursday.

In a survey of 40 school districts, the study found that the majority of long-term English-language learners are U.S. natives who prefer English and are orally bilingual. But they develop major deficits in reading and writing, fail to achieve the academic English needed for educational success and disproportionately drop out of high school, according to the study by Californians Together, a coalition of 22 parent, professional and civil rights organizations.&lt;/blockquote&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right, it doesn&#8217;t break the figures down by age. I&#8217;ll see what I can find out. But I wouldn&#8217;t assume that middle and high school English learners are immigrants. Check out this L.A. Times story on &#8220;long-term English language learners.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/28/local/la-me-0528-english-20100528" rel="nofollow">http://articles.latimes.com/2010/may/28/local/la-me-0528-english-20100528</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Nearly 60% of English-language learners in California&#8217;s high schools have failed to become proficient in English despite more than six years of a U.S. education, according to a study released Thursday.</p>
<p>In a survey of 40 school districts, the study found that the majority of long-term English-language learners are U.S. natives who prefer English and are orally bilingual. But they develop major deficits in reading and writing, fail to achieve the academic English needed for educational success and disproportionately drop out of high school, according to the study by Californians Together, a coalition of 22 parent, professional and civil rights organizations.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: livegreen</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32742</link>
		<dc:creator>livegreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[1st, re generalizations about how bad Middle Schools are, there are 2 good Middle Schools in Oakland, and there are others that have the capacity to become that.  So carrying over the reputation of all middle schools and the genuinely bad MS&#039;s and applying that to either all the MS&#039;s or the good MS&#039;s is both unfair and untrue.  (As I asked Nextset to do when talking about a race, at least put the word &quot;most&quot; in).

BTW, I do agree even the good MS&#039;s still need to make a lot of progress.

2nd, I think the Feeder schools should be broadly aligned with the Neighborhood School boundaries.  For example, Kaiser being a feeder to Edna Brewer instead of Claremont is just plain weird, and probably more political than logical.  In addition it contradicts the new neighborhood centric Strategic Plan.

3rd, The new OUSD Region Map cuts in between both school boundaries and neighborhoods.  It also contradicts the new neighborhood centric Strategic Plan it&#039;s a part of.  &amp; if it gets implemented this way, even MORE families are going to leave.

4th I agree with Pro-Tracking, Hills Parents, and probably even Nextset that OUSD concentrates on &quot;equity&quot; and helping those who are doing poorly rather than on educating all children based on their level &amp; needs.  I&#039;m not saying OUSD shouldn&#039;t help the poorer performing students, they should.  But OUSD is almost entirely focused on &quot;equity&quot;, which makes it much more of a challenge for higher performing parents to get assistance.  Instead it needs to retain &amp; do both!

&amp; yet attending public OUSD meetings those who speak up say the opposite, that all money goes to schools that already have money.  ??   There&#039;s a discrepancy somewhere here, that needs to be clarified by real examples.

5th-OFCY allocates funding the same way.  &amp; it&#039;s not the Hills or Flatland schools that suffer.  It&#039;s the schools in between which have poor &amp; middle class students but are not even recognized in City Govt., OUSD or even the Press.  In Oakland &amp; OUSD, you&#039;re either rich or your poor, you live in &amp; attend either Flatlands or Hills neighborhoods and schools.

This factually leaves out the entire Middle Class, the economic level most important for the success of the United States, and yet one gets the impression Oakland does not even recognize it exists.  These families cannot afford to stay &amp; go private unless they have access to a good public middle schools.  So if they don&#039;t they just leave, taking their #&#039;s, tax $, and PTA money with them.

6th The Strategic Plan meetings are dominated by Equity and are taking place at higher needs schools which guarantees Equity will be it&#039;s focus.  &amp; I understand Tony Smith is all about Equity anyway, so it&#039;s built to get what he wants.  If you think Sup Smith wants anything else, he must prove it.  

Remember these points as the Strategic Plan happens.  If they don&#039;t get input from middle class or wealthy schools, these students will continue to flee, &amp; OUSD&#039;s challenges will remain the same.

OUSD needs both Equity AND attention to Proficient &amp; Advanced students.  It will take hard work to get that.   The challenge will be balancing those two vs. just taking the easy route and doing one or the other.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1st, re generalizations about how bad Middle Schools are, there are 2 good Middle Schools in Oakland, and there are others that have the capacity to become that.  So carrying over the reputation of all middle schools and the genuinely bad MS&#8217;s and applying that to either all the MS&#8217;s or the good MS&#8217;s is both unfair and untrue.  (As I asked Nextset to do when talking about a race, at least put the word &#8220;most&#8221; in).</p>
<p>BTW, I do agree even the good MS&#8217;s still need to make a lot of progress.</p>
<p>2nd, I think the Feeder schools should be broadly aligned with the Neighborhood School boundaries.  For example, Kaiser being a feeder to Edna Brewer instead of Claremont is just plain weird, and probably more political than logical.  In addition it contradicts the new neighborhood centric Strategic Plan.</p>
<p>3rd, The new OUSD Region Map cuts in between both school boundaries and neighborhoods.  It also contradicts the new neighborhood centric Strategic Plan it&#8217;s a part of.  &amp; if it gets implemented this way, even MORE families are going to leave.</p>
<p>4th I agree with Pro-Tracking, Hills Parents, and probably even Nextset that OUSD concentrates on &#8220;equity&#8221; and helping those who are doing poorly rather than on educating all children based on their level &amp; needs.  I&#8217;m not saying OUSD shouldn&#8217;t help the poorer performing students, they should.  But OUSD is almost entirely focused on &#8220;equity&#8221;, which makes it much more of a challenge for higher performing parents to get assistance.  Instead it needs to retain &amp; do both!</p>
<p>&amp; yet attending public OUSD meetings those who speak up say the opposite, that all money goes to schools that already have money.  ??   There&#8217;s a discrepancy somewhere here, that needs to be clarified by real examples.</p>
<p>5th-OFCY allocates funding the same way.  &amp; it&#8217;s not the Hills or Flatland schools that suffer.  It&#8217;s the schools in between which have poor &amp; middle class students but are not even recognized in City Govt., OUSD or even the Press.  In Oakland &amp; OUSD, you&#8217;re either rich or your poor, you live in &amp; attend either Flatlands or Hills neighborhoods and schools.</p>
<p>This factually leaves out the entire Middle Class, the economic level most important for the success of the United States, and yet one gets the impression Oakland does not even recognize it exists.  These families cannot afford to stay &amp; go private unless they have access to a good public middle schools.  So if they don&#8217;t they just leave, taking their #&#8217;s, tax $, and PTA money with them.</p>
<p>6th The Strategic Plan meetings are dominated by Equity and are taking place at higher needs schools which guarantees Equity will be it&#8217;s focus.  &amp; I understand Tony Smith is all about Equity anyway, so it&#8217;s built to get what he wants.  If you think Sup Smith wants anything else, he must prove it.  </p>
<p>Remember these points as the Strategic Plan happens.  If they don&#8217;t get input from middle class or wealthy schools, these students will continue to flee, &amp; OUSD&#8217;s challenges will remain the same.</p>
<p>OUSD needs both Equity AND attention to Proficient &amp; Advanced students.  It will take hard work to get that.   The challenge will be balancing those two vs. just taking the easy route and doing one or the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Pro-Tracking</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32740</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro-Tracking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Katy, I figured TheTruthHurts was referring to middle and high school students because of his reference to honors and remedial classes.   Given how fast young children learn English, it seems very likely to me that teenage English learners are immigrant students.  Unfortunately, that report you reference does not have it broken down by age and/or level of school.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy, I figured TheTruthHurts was referring to middle and high school students because of his reference to honors and remedial classes.   Given how fast young children learn English, it seems very likely to me that teenage English learners are immigrant students.  Unfortunately, that report you reference does not have it broken down by age and/or level of school.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32739</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32739</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On the Fence: How so?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the Fence: How so?</p>
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		<title>By: On the Fence</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32738</link>
		<dc:creator>On the Fence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 22:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32738</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s always so interesting to learn about this issue and hear the unique stories of families like those interviewed in the article. Our family values education, safety, normal and healthy development, and we&#039;ve been able to find that at our OUSD middle school. Each year about 50% of our high performing school attends the local middle school. My child and many other children at the school have gotten a good education.  The kids who are high performing seem to maintain their ability to test well, learn well, develop normally, and socialize normally.  I&#039;m very pleased with the choice we made, but would also like to see Sup. Smith really pay attention to the needs of all families so that he can better serve all students.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s always so interesting to learn about this issue and hear the unique stories of families like those interviewed in the article. Our family values education, safety, normal and healthy development, and we&#8217;ve been able to find that at our OUSD middle school. Each year about 50% of our high performing school attends the local middle school. My child and many other children at the school have gotten a good education.  The kids who are high performing seem to maintain their ability to test well, learn well, develop normally, and socialize normally.  I&#8217;m very pleased with the choice we made, but would also like to see Sup. Smith really pay attention to the needs of all families so that he can better serve all students.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32737</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 21:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32737</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I checked with the Pew Hispanic Center after reading about the presumption, cited (though not necessarily endorsed) by TheTruthHurts, that English learners are largely illegal immigrants. Here are a couple of statistics that might surprise you:

- 84 percent of the Latino public schoolchildren in the United States -- and 93 percent of kindergartners -- were born in the U.S.
- Even among the Latino public school kids who &lt;em&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; speak English &quot;very well,&quot; 77 percent were born in the United States, according to Pew&#039;s Richard Fry.

Here&#039;s a link to the report with the above stats: http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=92]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I checked with the Pew Hispanic Center after reading about the presumption, cited (though not necessarily endorsed) by TheTruthHurts, that English learners are largely illegal immigrants. Here are a couple of statistics that might surprise you:</p>
<p>- 84 percent of the Latino public schoolchildren in the United States &#8212; and 93 percent of kindergartners &#8212; were born in the U.S.<br />
- Even among the Latino public school kids who <em>don&#8217;t</em> speak English &#8220;very well,&#8221; 77 percent were born in the United States, according to Pew&#8217;s Richard Fry.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a link to the report with the above stats: <a href="http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=92" rel="nofollow">http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=92</a></p>
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		<title>By: Pro-Tracking</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32735</link>
		<dc:creator>Pro-Tracking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 20:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32735</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Last year (or was it two years ago?) there were a series of meetings at Claremont MS for the purpose of trying to get parents attending local elementary schools to consider Claremont.  I asked the NEXO if there were honors courses at Claremont and she said, &quot;no, but there is differentiated instruction.&quot;   And that right there is the number one reason why I would never consider an Oakland public middle school.   Why on earth would I send my high performing child to a school where a teacher has to meet her needs as well as the needs of students who never reached proficiency during their K-5 years?  

OUSD will NEVER attract the high performers to its middle schools until it offers plenty of honors courses for grades 6-8.  

Sup Smith - help the district get OVER its guilt about tracking.  Get the discussion going.   We do the right thing by NOT tracking in elementary school but we DO track in high school (AP courses, Padeia program, etc.).  Why not extend it to middle school?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last year (or was it two years ago?) there were a series of meetings at Claremont MS for the purpose of trying to get parents attending local elementary schools to consider Claremont.  I asked the NEXO if there were honors courses at Claremont and she said, &#8220;no, but there is differentiated instruction.&#8221;   And that right there is the number one reason why I would never consider an Oakland public middle school.   Why on earth would I send my high performing child to a school where a teacher has to meet her needs as well as the needs of students who never reached proficiency during their K-5 years?  </p>
<p>OUSD will NEVER attract the high performers to its middle schools until it offers plenty of honors courses for grades 6-8.  </p>
<p>Sup Smith &#8211; help the district get OVER its guilt about tracking.  Get the discussion going.   We do the right thing by NOT tracking in elementary school but we DO track in high school (AP courses, Padeia program, etc.).  Why not extend it to middle school?</p>
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		<title>By: TheTruthHurts</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2010/12/13/oaklands-middle-school-brain-drain/comment-page-1/#comment-32734</link>
		<dc:creator>TheTruthHurts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Dec 2010 18:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11250#comment-32734</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not to piss off anybody, but I watched a story on illegal immigration that brought up the same issue.  The story mentioned a district that had to shift resources away from honors and GATE classes to remedial classes to address an influx of English learners - who they presumed were illegal immigrants.  

That isn&#039;t Oakland&#039;s primary problem, but if underperforming students are the majority, it makes sense that resources would shift to serve them.  With the overall lack of resources, schools simply can&#039;t do everything.  Savvy parents now have options and Options to make these decisions, even without additional cost (e.g. charters).

OUSD better figure this out or it will continue to get the same money to educate kids that need more and more resources to help.  Nextset might say that&#039;s already happening and charters have just allowed it to accelerate beyond the wealthy.

Magnet schools might help, but I would not want to see the equivalent of a white/asian school and then everybody else.  We&#039;ve already got that at Berkeley and it just reinforces the inequity we&#039;re used to.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to piss off anybody, but I watched a story on illegal immigration that brought up the same issue.  The story mentioned a district that had to shift resources away from honors and GATE classes to remedial classes to address an influx of English learners &#8211; who they presumed were illegal immigrants.  </p>
<p>That isn&#8217;t Oakland&#8217;s primary problem, but if underperforming students are the majority, it makes sense that resources would shift to serve them.  With the overall lack of resources, schools simply can&#8217;t do everything.  Savvy parents now have options and Options to make these decisions, even without additional cost (e.g. charters).</p>
<p>OUSD better figure this out or it will continue to get the same money to educate kids that need more and more resources to help.  Nextset might say that&#8217;s already happening and charters have just allowed it to accelerate beyond the wealthy.</p>
<p>Magnet schools might help, but I would not want to see the equivalent of a white/asian school and then everybody else.  We&#8217;ve already got that at Berkeley and it just reinforces the inequity we&#8217;re used to.</p>
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