And a final thought..

One of the things I did learn from when I was your age and running around “helping” people indiscriminately was that I helped them get worse – or persist in their bad behavior. Oh they said they would change, but in the end I learned that my “help” was really part of the process where they worked (even without planning to) to maintain the status quo or worse. And another thing – people you age cannot tell when they’re being lied to – by anybody.

So you really have to be careful with your “help”.

Good luck with that.

Notice the snide remark at the end… classic.

Notice the inability to answer the main point of contention. Does pouring money and “education” on students with lower IQs and/or unwillingness to pursue education magically transform a dull student to a college ready student? Libs believe so, mainly because it’s job security. Experiences says absolutely not.

So Trevor, the purpose of America’s Public School System is to prepare (mainly the proles) for Industry, Military Service or Higher Education. Only a percentage of students are fit for higher education. This is not a new concept.

Everybody cannot reasonably go to college. Only a fraction of public school students have any business in a real college. Especially now that the taxpayers have reduced their contribution to the cost and the students have to sign non-dischargable debt to pay for the experience. If they don’t have a reasonable expexctation of earning power to carry the debt they don’t belong in “college”. So much for Black Studies and the other basketweaving majors.

The party days of the 1960s with UC costing less than $300/year are over.

Good luck with your career in Mechanical Engineering. Good luck with altruism. I don’t approve of that so much. I tend to agree with Ayn Rand on things like Habitat for Humanity and I’d have had nothing to do with the Katrina cleanup, leaving that to the stakeholders.

Tried thinking the other way. I grew up. You will too. While I “help” people, I am nowhere near as indiscriminate and unfocused as when I was your age. Not complaining, it’s just how life works.

You keep putting up statistics, saying that’s the way it is, and that’s that. That’s wrong.

The key to making OUSD better is getting the students to a higher level, not lowering the difficulty of the classes. As an OUSD alum, I know the classes are plenty easy. I want to make students better. You want to make classes worse. It’s clear to me that I’m right. Look at your own logic before critiquing mine.

Just because you think so low of me, I’d like to point out a few of the highlights of my life. I spent a month in New Orleans gutting houses post Katrina/Rita. I graduated from UCSC with a 3.5 GPA and will be attending Colorado State to receive my masters in mechanical engineering. I tutor at the Boys and Girls Club and bring fruits and sandwiches for the kids with money out of my own pocket. I’m not worried about making the cut you are so interested in. I am concerned with improving the quality of life of the people around me, even if mine has to take a hit. I’ll be fine regardless of what you think.

I’m not going to change your mind so you’re not worth talking to. I’d say have a good life, but you haven’t earned that type of respect from me. Here’s your chance to have the last word.

The next step is for you to pose an argument that the OUSD black students are collectively improved in their quality of life by college prep programs and imposition of college prep classes for a diploma. (as opposed to the small percentage of students who are, Jewish, for example? Persian? Egyptian, Asian Whatever else??

Mind you, we are not talking of “some” black students, say a fraction of the current 6th graders for example. We are talking about the group as a whole.

I’m waiting…

What percentage of the current black OUSD 6th graders do you suppose are statistically likely to get a 4 year degree? Even using 6th graders at OUSD from 12 years ago, or 15 years ago. This is where that drop rate becomes problematic. A 50% drop rate for OUSD blacks or thereabout. So tell me how you are going to “help” with the college prep thing.. Increase the algebra requirements a bit more?

You assume I think from your post above that I points are a matter of making the poor black folk take voc ed. You seem to think that I would take away the college prep, maybe reserve it for whites. (if you can find any (significant number) in LA Unified or OUSD).

Your arguments are flawed because you don’t want the population to choose of their own free will what educational program to enroll in. It’s not like you’re supporting a wide variety of options (Charters?).

As far as preparing white students for college and deliberately not preparing blacks – or mexicans (which is what I really believe OUSD and LA Unified are actually doing) – Try preparing blacks for prison, welfare and early graves and not having any white students to speak of, the whites having sidestepped ghetto districts in favor of white (ie Negro Free) districts.

Not only are we not preparing the black students for a 4 year degree, we are (at ghetto school districts such as OUSD & LAUSD) quite carefully making them unemployable and non-competitive. Basic education, deportment and voc ed is vastly more important than the college prep programs for white OR black students in the urban public schools. If we have to cancel all the college prep courses for the few to maintain the basic ed for themasses – especially the 50% dropouts who had no program they found worth showing up for – it could be justified.

It’s the local school board that decides the balance of what they will sacrifice on basics to fund the strivers. There is a balance. Right now OUSD is throwing the majority of the black kids under the bus (no driver’s ed and training, for example) in order to fund college prep for some. Good for the school board, they are elected to make those decisions and somebody has to get defunded.

I just think we are WAY too eager to consign a huge percentage of the blacks to non-education. When the Mexicans complete their takeover of the municipalities you can bet the priorities are going to change. They are under far fewer illusions of what is what – elitism notwithstanding.

The problem with OUSD is the unacceptably small percentage of black “products” that can even get a job at McDonalds or get accepted in the Army. Spare us your pious comments about college prep. The role of OUSD is to provide a floor below which the average black student can’t fall. Not to feed to Stanford. OUSD doesn’t do a good enough job providing a floor. The district needs to concentrate it’s energies there.

Your satire is better, by the way.

Here’s the thing though, you’re totally right. I don’t know how I could have thought that way for so long. I guess I am just a child and need to grow into an adult. Come to think of it, I’ve never had an adult conversation, this one included.

I love standing by and watching people I like “not make it.” I kind of get off on it. That’s why I tutor disadvantaged students. My dumbness rubs off on them and they fail like I have. I have a few questions for you though. Seeing as how you have seen into my life and know I am going to not make the cut or ever get hired, should I give up on life in normal society? If so, what should I move on to? I’m partial to jumping off the bay bridge.

Your wisdom astounds me. My weak mind did not realize that one could say that black people do not show sexual restraint while not being a racist. You’re clear reasoning has show me this. I have to ask you, black man to black man, don’t you hate washing your hands? I sure do.

Good for you for not caring if anyone calls you a racist. Public perception is overrated. I have a plan I think you’ll like. Lets only prepare white students for college and make minority students vocational workers. With a little work, we can take this country all the way back to 1776.

You’re brilliance must be a burden, but it has helped you make the cut. As a black man, it’s incredible you made it to the middle class. You’re doing great working at what I assume is a white collar job, making enough to be fine even if everything crumples around you. Why help anyone out while you’re doing so well?

Once again, you continue to be right. As a child, I can’t spout off fantasy ideas all day. The first amendment was not written for children. I’ll try to keep my opinions in line with yours. You’ve earned control of my thought process. I didn’t really get your Brave New World reference because I’m stupid. The old me would have thought it was about the government controlling your life and opinions, but I was confused back then.

The nicest thing about all this is that you know I’m too dumb to write satire, so you know everything I say is genuine. Save us from white liberals.

1984.

You asked the question: ““Why does OUSD socially promote unprepared Middle School students to High school?”

The short answer is that the School Board ignores the fact that the policies the Board passed ending social promotion in the 90s was dropped by the State Administration under Randy Ward and the Board has not acted to put promotion policy in place. Few principals had been trained in the Board’s policy ending social promotion prior to the Board’s promotion policy being dropped when Randy Ward replaced most of the Oakland School Board policies with the model policies of the California School Board Association. Even today there is no School Board policy on promotion prior to the Board policy on graduation.

When the District’s policy was in place, the District put in place a report card that is standard’s based and is still used for elementary schools.

In the 90s the State legislature passed Ed Code that requires each school board to pass regulations ending social promotion in compliance with the following:

48070. The governing board of each school district and each county superintendent of schools shall adopt policies regarding pupil promotion and retention. A pupil shall be promoted or retained only as provided in the policies adopted pursuant to this article.

48070.5. (a) In addition to the policy adopted pursuant to Section 48070, the governing board of each school district and each county board of education shall, in those applicable grade levels, approve a
policy regarding the promotion and retention of pupils between the
following grades:
(1) Between second grade and third grade.
(2) Between third grade and fourth grade.
(3) Between fourth and fifth grade.
(4) Between the end of the intermediate grades and the beginning
of middle school grades which typically occurs between sixth grade
and seventh grade, but may vary depending upon the grade configuration of the school or school district.
(5) Between the end of the middle school grades and the beginning of high school which typically occurs between eighth grade and ninth grade, but may vary depending upon the grade configuration of the school or school district.
(b) The policy shall provide for the identification of pupils who should be retained and who are at risk of being retained in their current grade level on the basis of either of the following:
(1) The results of the assessments administered pursuant to Article 4 (commencing with Section 60640) of Chapter 5 of Part 33 and the minimum levels of proficiency recommended by the State Board of
Education pursuant to Section 60648.
(2) The pupil’s grades and other indicators of academic achievement designated by the district.
(c) The policy shall base the identification of pupils pursuant to subdivision (b) at the grade levels identified pursuant to paragraph(1) and (2) of subdivision (a) primarily on the basis of the pupil’s
level of proficiency in reading. The policy shall base the identification of pupils pursuant to subdivision (b) at the grade levels identified pursuant to paragraphs (3) through (5) of subdivision (a) on the basis of the pupil’s level of proficiency in reading, English language arts, and mathematics.
(d) (1) If either measure identified in paragraph (1) or (2) of subdivision (b) identifies that a pupil is performing below the minimum standard for promotion, the pupil shall be retained in his or
her current grade level unless the pupil’s regular classroom teacher determines in writing that retention is not the appropriate intervention for the pupil’s academic deficiencies. This written determination shall specify the reasons that retention is not
appropriate for the pupil and shall include recommendations for interventions other than retention that in the opinion of the teacher are necessary to assist the pupil to attain acceptable levels of
academic achievement. If the teacher’s recommendation to promote is contingent upon the pupil’s participation in a summer school or interim session remediation program, the pupil’s academic performance
shall be reassessed at the end of the remediation program, and the decision to retain or promote the pupil shall be reevaluated at that time. The teacher’s evaluation shall be provided to and discussed
with the pupil’s parent or guardian and the school principal before any final determination of pupil retention or promotion.
(2) If the pupil does not have a single regular classroom teacher, the policy adopted by the school district shall specify the teacher or teachers responsible for the promotion or retention decision.
(e) The policy shall provide for parental notification when a pupil is identified as being at risk of retention. This notice shall be provided as early in the school year as practicable. The policy
shall provide a pupil’s parent or guardian the opportunity to consult with the teacher or teachers responsible for the decision to promote or retain the pupil.
(f) The policy shall provide a process whereby the decision of the teacher to retain or promote a pupil may be appealed. If an appeal is made, the burden shall be on the appealing party to show why the
decision of the teacher should be overruled.
(g) The policy shall provide that pupils who are at-risk of being retained in their current grade be identified as early in the school year, and as early in their school careers, as practicable.
(h) The policy shall indicate the manner in which opportunities for remedial instruction will be provided to pupils who are recommended for retention or who are identified as being at risk for retention.
(i) The policy adopted pursuant to this section shall be adopted at a public meeting of the governing board of the school district.
(j) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the retention of a pupil not included in grade levels identified pursuant to subdivision (a), or for reasons other than those specified in
subdivision (b), if such retention is determined to be appropriate for that pupil. Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit a governing board from adopting promotion and retention policies that exceed the criteria established in this section.

Jim Mordecai

So what I’m saying is that Childhood’s Over – you need to get into life and participate as an adult. That means seeing first hand what works and what doesn’t and watching people you like “not make it”. It doesn’t take too long to become far more pragmatic that you are. In the meantime you would do well to analyze contrary views rather than at 18 or whatever you are, climbing on a horse taller than you are.

Cries of “racist” are the sign of a weak mind. That you’re resorting to that in public discourse marks you. Not only do you have a pie in the sky idea of how people are (typical for a product of your “schools”) but you think you can emote and discount strangers decades older than you without analyzing their points and perspective. You need to realize you have been trained not to do that – someone like me – a more educated and experienced person in the professions can see you coming and simply hire a better applicant. These debates are not about whether we like each other. They are about policy.

Perhaps because you know I’m black you have become emotional thinking I am some how betraying some obligation to you or your politics. Again, very bad school training for a young graduate. Typical training at OUSD I understand. You are perhaps going to work in industry or attend higher ed where you will certainly run into competitors who can make roadkill out of you. The more lethal ones might actually smile at you. Do you think strangers owe you anything? Your training as displayed is not that of someone I expect to do well in a competitive college program, any competitive program. That is my experience and it’s no fun to see people I’d like to do well fail because they won’t change and they enjoy thinking about life as you do now. (The behavior persists across many fields of thought and endeavor – refusal to be analytical and being driven on emotion once established gets in the way of all higher study.)

Back to the points at hand. What part of 50% black drop rate do you not understand as you argue for more college prep at OUSD? What part of the Black scoring gaps in basic literacy and skills do you not understand? This thread is about the drop rate in the College Prep program & OUSD in general. My point is that OUSD needs to stop the emphasis on college prep and raising graduation requirements, slam all of it into reverse, and start fielding programs that get the black population safely into basic literacy, deportment skills and job readiness reserving the college prep programs for those (of any ethnicity) that say they want it and satisfy the prerequisites to go to the smaller separate campuses where such programs would be housed. Cramming unwanted college prep into the dull students is what’s creating the historically high black drop rates and the higher requirements create bars to graduation that are unreasonable.

And I don’t care if you or anyone else thinks this is “racist”. Save us from white liberals.

Brave New World.

Classroom A uses one form of instruction. Mary learns 80% of the material, and Egbert learns 40%

Classroom B uses differentiated instruction. Mary learns 60% of the material, and Egbert also learns 60%.

It is not even remotely obvious to me that Classroom B is more “fair” than Classroom A. In each case, one student is falling short of his or her potential.

This is exactly one of the points of contention, in many cases the whole system is breaking down and letting far too many kids slip through the cracks(which in some cases are chasms). Kids are not being educated, they are just being passed through the system.Why aren’t these kids even learning the basics early on? Multiple people are not doing their job of educating children. We are in fact running a jobs program for adults within the education system(there are of course exceptions to this rule). The point is Harold, these students were passed on through the early years without mastering the basics and therefore weren’t able to handle much of anything resembling rigorous work later on. Parents,admin, children and teachers are all to blame when this happens.