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	<title>Comments on: Oakland school honored for closing the achievement gap</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 19 Jun 2013 04:20:47 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-34045</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-34045</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Another thing about this API thing. When the API numbers are changing or moving in any school you cannot assume the reasons are the &quot;quality&quot; of the education - or the addition or subtraction of &quot;good&quot; or &quot;bad&quot; teachers.

You need to first look at the shifting demographics of the students.

Remember the Scott Phelps incident at Pasadena Schools, where the teachers were told they should take a new pay scheme where their pay would be adjusted up or down by the academic performance of the students? Phelps (a teacher) circulated a memo to the teachers/union members using the school&#039;s interoffice mail citing the racial census on the feeder elementary schools showing that the high school was turning blacker which created a statistical certainty that the academic numbers would decline (and so would their pay under the proposed scheme).

Of course the school district had a hissy fit and suspended Phelps for spreading &quot;Hate Truths&quot; and being a &quot;Racist&quot;. I believe they were forced to reinstate him with full pay.

I for one am not about to take pious statements about hard work and improving API scores very easily. Oakland Unified like most California Urban/Ghetto districts is turning Mexican for various well known reasons. As it does, the baseline academic scores will change. Hispanics generally score higher than Blacks in certain areas. The patterns are so stark we could tell the race of a high school scholarship candidate just from the transcript math/verbal scores which I was doing scholarship interviews previously at an urban public school (asian, white, hispanic, black typically had different fixed ratios in the scores and sub scores). There could be an atypical candidate but that was extremely rare.

Maybe some scoring at a school boasting about improved numbers was affected by &quot;hard work&quot; but the racial numbers usually/always move together with the patterns and differences remaining constant relative to each other.

So I&#039;m not buying that &quot;closing the gap&quot; line just because somebody claims it. I&#039;ve been through that too many times. The &quot;Gap&quot; when measured with large numbers is simply too constant. 

I do approve of a rising tide floating all boats. But if you think you are going to fundamentally change people and make them into what you want them to be just because you feel like it, it&#039;s not going to happen. That kind of change takes time and comes from within. Then you get into that &quot;acting white&quot; problem (acting jewish??)

You are not going to turn Black kids into Asians, or get most any ethnic to become something they don&#039;t want to. If you want to change a group, you&#039;d need to find a way to make them want to be/profile different than what they are. And be careful, if you succeed they may be rejected by their peer group. Even their families.

Does this apply to 3rd graders? How about 8th graders? Now what about 11th graders?

Maybe we should talk about this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another thing about this API thing. When the API numbers are changing or moving in any school you cannot assume the reasons are the &#8220;quality&#8221; of the education &#8211; or the addition or subtraction of &#8220;good&#8221; or &#8220;bad&#8221; teachers.</p>
<p>You need to first look at the shifting demographics of the students.</p>
<p>Remember the Scott Phelps incident at Pasadena Schools, where the teachers were told they should take a new pay scheme where their pay would be adjusted up or down by the academic performance of the students? Phelps (a teacher) circulated a memo to the teachers/union members using the school&#8217;s interoffice mail citing the racial census on the feeder elementary schools showing that the high school was turning blacker which created a statistical certainty that the academic numbers would decline (and so would their pay under the proposed scheme).</p>
<p>Of course the school district had a hissy fit and suspended Phelps for spreading &#8220;Hate Truths&#8221; and being a &#8220;Racist&#8221;. I believe they were forced to reinstate him with full pay.</p>
<p>I for one am not about to take pious statements about hard work and improving API scores very easily. Oakland Unified like most California Urban/Ghetto districts is turning Mexican for various well known reasons. As it does, the baseline academic scores will change. Hispanics generally score higher than Blacks in certain areas. The patterns are so stark we could tell the race of a high school scholarship candidate just from the transcript math/verbal scores which I was doing scholarship interviews previously at an urban public school (asian, white, hispanic, black typically had different fixed ratios in the scores and sub scores). There could be an atypical candidate but that was extremely rare.</p>
<p>Maybe some scoring at a school boasting about improved numbers was affected by &#8220;hard work&#8221; but the racial numbers usually/always move together with the patterns and differences remaining constant relative to each other.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m not buying that &#8220;closing the gap&#8221; line just because somebody claims it. I&#8217;ve been through that too many times. The &#8220;Gap&#8221; when measured with large numbers is simply too constant. </p>
<p>I do approve of a rising tide floating all boats. But if you think you are going to fundamentally change people and make them into what you want them to be just because you feel like it, it&#8217;s not going to happen. That kind of change takes time and comes from within. Then you get into that &#8220;acting white&#8221; problem (acting jewish??)</p>
<p>You are not going to turn Black kids into Asians, or get most any ethnic to become something they don&#8217;t want to. If you want to change a group, you&#8217;d need to find a way to make them want to be/profile different than what they are. And be careful, if you succeed they may be rejected by their peer group. Even their families.</p>
<p>Does this apply to 3rd graders? How about 8th graders? Now what about 11th graders?</p>
<p>Maybe we should talk about this.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33759</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 05:35:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33759</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Teachers, students and parents and staff at Manzanita Community would know better than I about the extent to which it is thriving (or not). But since you bring up numbers... 

Its API dropped slightly (11 points) in 2009, but it rose by 61 points in 2010 to 733 (http://bit.ly/euzGC6). It also met all of its AYP/NCLB goals last year (http://bit.ly/fgSIb9).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Teachers, students and parents and staff at Manzanita Community would know better than I about the extent to which it is thriving (or not). But since you bring up numbers&#8230; </p>
<p>Its API dropped slightly (11 points) in 2009, but it rose by 61 points in 2010 to 733 (<a href="http://bit.ly/euzGC6" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/euzGC6</a>). It also met all of its AYP/NCLB goals last year (<a href="http://bit.ly/fgSIb9" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/fgSIb9</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33757</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 04:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33757</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Katy: I teach middle school but have colleagues at both Manzanita schools. Manzanita Seed and Community have roughly the same ethnic and socioeconomic students at the school.

Both schools use Si Swun math. This is an example of how the Swun math method works in Oakland schools where students come without a strong background knowledge and home experience in using math daily (100% of 5th grade students at Seed are proficient or advanced in math).

Seed also has experienced teachers collaborating with and assisting new teachers. I believe that when the school was reconstituted many teachers left the school rather than reapplying for &quot;their positions.&quot; In doing so room was made for teachers who willing to try innovative methods of teaching and believing that all students could achieve grade level mastery. 

I know that when I first started teaching, I did not believe that every student could achieve mastery of grade level material. I KNOW it is true. I have seen struggling students have the light switched on after years of far below and below basic test scores. For students who do not learn the way we are teaching, we need to figure out new ways to do it. 

For all of those who decry Swun math - I was with you. But I see my students understand - when you write in red, pencils down, I listen. When you write in blue, I listen, then I do. When you write in green I need to be working with you and on my own. For the first time in decades in Oakland we have held students feet to the flame and said that math facts must be memorized - first addition and subtraction families, then multiplication and division families. Without math facts we get stuck in computation and plain arithmetic instead of mathematics. To compare it is the same as mastering phonics, phonemic awareness and basic sentence structure to read rather than just decode.

What Seed does so well is set the basic foundation in the primary grades and even in grade four so that by grade five students don&#039;t just succeed, they excel. This is the work of great teachers, great students and supportive families working together to have students in class, ready to learn and excel every day.

Congratulations Manzanita Seed!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy: I teach middle school but have colleagues at both Manzanita schools. Manzanita Seed and Community have roughly the same ethnic and socioeconomic students at the school.</p>
<p>Both schools use Si Swun math. This is an example of how the Swun math method works in Oakland schools where students come without a strong background knowledge and home experience in using math daily (100% of 5th grade students at Seed are proficient or advanced in math).</p>
<p>Seed also has experienced teachers collaborating with and assisting new teachers. I believe that when the school was reconstituted many teachers left the school rather than reapplying for &#8220;their positions.&#8221; In doing so room was made for teachers who willing to try innovative methods of teaching and believing that all students could achieve grade level mastery. </p>
<p>I know that when I first started teaching, I did not believe that every student could achieve mastery of grade level material. I KNOW it is true. I have seen struggling students have the light switched on after years of far below and below basic test scores. For students who do not learn the way we are teaching, we need to figure out new ways to do it. </p>
<p>For all of those who decry Swun math &#8211; I was with you. But I see my students understand &#8211; when you write in red, pencils down, I listen. When you write in blue, I listen, then I do. When you write in green I need to be working with you and on my own. For the first time in decades in Oakland we have held students feet to the flame and said that math facts must be memorized &#8211; first addition and subtraction families, then multiplication and division families. Without math facts we get stuck in computation and plain arithmetic instead of mathematics. To compare it is the same as mastering phonics, phonemic awareness and basic sentence structure to read rather than just decode.</p>
<p>What Seed does so well is set the basic foundation in the primary grades and even in grade four so that by grade five students don&#8217;t just succeed, they excel. This is the work of great teachers, great students and supportive families working together to have students in class, ready to learn and excel every day.</p>
<p>Congratulations Manzanita Seed!</p>
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		<title>By: Time to close some schools</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33751</link>
		<dc:creator>Time to close some schools</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 03:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Catherine raises a critical point - Manzanita SEED is thriving, Manzanita Community is not. What&#039;s the difference? The principal. Why is there no discussion of closing Manzanita Community and making the school one large SEED under Ms Carter&#039;s direction? It&#039;s my understanding the Manzanita Community&#039;s numbers have been dropping in recent years, Superintendent Tony Smith has talked about closing schools - a larger SEED would draw parents back to OUSD. Someone needs to take a more serious look at the schools that haven&#039;t been able to make it and consider closing them down. Enough waste of money and wasting our students&#039; lives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catherine raises a critical point &#8211; Manzanita SEED is thriving, Manzanita Community is not. What&#8217;s the difference? The principal. Why is there no discussion of closing Manzanita Community and making the school one large SEED under Ms Carter&#8217;s direction? It&#8217;s my understanding the Manzanita Community&#8217;s numbers have been dropping in recent years, Superintendent Tony Smith has talked about closing schools &#8211; a larger SEED would draw parents back to OUSD. Someone needs to take a more serious look at the schools that haven&#8217;t been able to make it and consider closing them down. Enough waste of money and wasting our students&#8217; lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33750</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 02:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hey Catherine -  Do you mean the old Manzanita Elementary wasn&#039;t thriving, or that Manzanita Community isn&#039;t? Do you teach there?

Manzanita SEED opened a year earlier than Manzanita Community, but I&#039;m pretty sure both schools were allowed to hire whomever they wanted in that first year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Catherine &#8211;  Do you mean the old Manzanita Elementary wasn&#8217;t thriving, or that Manzanita Community isn&#8217;t? Do you teach there?</p>
<p>Manzanita SEED opened a year earlier than Manzanita Community, but I&#8217;m pretty sure both schools were allowed to hire whomever they wanted in that first year.</p>
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		<title>By: Catherine</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33748</link>
		<dc:creator>Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Jan 2011 01:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33748</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Katy: Another question - I believe that Manzanita Elementary School was under program improvement. After 5 years the school was broken into Manzanita Seed and Manzanita Community. Did the teachers re-apply for their jobs at that point? Manzanita Seed is thriving - but not so at Manzanita - what is the difference?

Teachers at the school must work collectively and use a focused approach at looking at students benchmark tests and focusing on learning for what the students missed. It would be interesting to me to see how the teachers at each school were selected. At my school right now, several parents are ready to file Williams complaints against several teachers because of real or perceived deficits in the planning and execution of the teaching in some middle school classrooms. I think if we worked and planned more closely and agreed to teach at a certain level for all students many schools in Oakland could succeed as Manzanita Seed has - however, we would all have to step out of our comfort zones - teachers, administrators, students and parents / guardians.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Katy: Another question &#8211; I believe that Manzanita Elementary School was under program improvement. After 5 years the school was broken into Manzanita Seed and Manzanita Community. Did the teachers re-apply for their jobs at that point? Manzanita Seed is thriving &#8211; but not so at Manzanita &#8211; what is the difference?</p>
<p>Teachers at the school must work collectively and use a focused approach at looking at students benchmark tests and focusing on learning for what the students missed. It would be interesting to me to see how the teachers at each school were selected. At my school right now, several parents are ready to file Williams complaints against several teachers because of real or perceived deficits in the planning and execution of the teaching in some middle school classrooms. I think if we worked and planned more closely and agreed to teach at a certain level for all students many schools in Oakland could succeed as Manzanita Seed has &#8211; however, we would all have to step out of our comfort zones &#8211; teachers, administrators, students and parents / guardians.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33747</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 21:05:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33747</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cranky Researcher: The full story mentions the small schools movement.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_17128437]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cranky Researcher: The full story mentions the small schools movement.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_17128437" rel="nofollow">http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_17128437</a></p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Researcher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33745</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Researcher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 20:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33745</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The small schools movement gets no credit here but Manzanita SEED is a &#039;new&#039; small school (opened in 2005), and its principal Katherine Carter is a very active small school movement leader. Ascend and Manzanita Community are the other two schools that arose from the older Manzanita Elementary and both are also high performing schools, whereas the original school was chronically low performing. 

There is a common myth out there that early academic gains fade out in later years, known as the Fadeout Effect among researchers - there were a few older studies that indicated this for head Start, but there has been better research more recently that shows that HS and other early childhood program impacts continue to give benefits into adulthood (graduates are less likely to commit crimes than siblings who were not in the program, etc), and the connection between low 4th grade reading levels and high school dropout is rather strong.

The problem is not that 4th grade reading levels don&#039;t matter, the problem is that they aren&#039;t getting better overall nationally (flatlining at one third of 4th graders reading proficiently on the NAEP nationally). So schools that do improve it like SEED should be applauded and imitated.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The small schools movement gets no credit here but Manzanita SEED is a &#8216;new&#8217; small school (opened in 2005), and its principal Katherine Carter is a very active small school movement leader. Ascend and Manzanita Community are the other two schools that arose from the older Manzanita Elementary and both are also high performing schools, whereas the original school was chronically low performing. </p>
<p>There is a common myth out there that early academic gains fade out in later years, known as the Fadeout Effect among researchers &#8211; there were a few older studies that indicated this for head Start, but there has been better research more recently that shows that HS and other early childhood program impacts continue to give benefits into adulthood (graduates are less likely to commit crimes than siblings who were not in the program, etc), and the connection between low 4th grade reading levels and high school dropout is rather strong.</p>
<p>The problem is not that 4th grade reading levels don&#8217;t matter, the problem is that they aren&#8217;t getting better overall nationally (flatlining at one third of 4th graders reading proficiently on the NAEP nationally). So schools that do improve it like SEED should be applauded and imitated.</p>
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		<title>By: Katy Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33742</link>
		<dc:creator>Katy Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33742</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think this is the video Ms. J was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iGiWmhgyug]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is the video Ms. J was talking about: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iGiWmhgyug" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iGiWmhgyug</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ms. J.</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/01/18/oakland-school-honored-for-closing-achievement-gap/comment-page-1/#comment-33741</link>
		<dc:creator>Ms. J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11484#comment-33741</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[SEED is really an exciting place, and the staff there are all not only dedicated and inspired but extremely resourceful and smart.  I am so glad that the school is finding success in reducing the achievement gap, and I recommend that people watch Katherine Carter&#039;s presentation to the school board in which she outlines how her school has been able to make such great gains.  It&#039;s available on Youtube but since I&#039;m at school (on my prep period, so don&#039;t get your panties in a twist) I can&#039;t send the link.  Very good stuff, and not beyond the realm of possibility for other public schools.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEED is really an exciting place, and the staff there are all not only dedicated and inspired but extremely resourceful and smart.  I am so glad that the school is finding success in reducing the achievement gap, and I recommend that people watch Katherine Carter&#8217;s presentation to the school board in which she outlines how her school has been able to make such great gains.  It&#8217;s available on Youtube but since I&#8217;m at school (on my prep period, so don&#8217;t get your panties in a twist) I can&#8217;t send the link.  Very good stuff, and not beyond the realm of possibility for other public schools.</p>
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