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	<title>Comments on: Aurelio&#8217;s redemption</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Uncle Obo</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35693</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Obo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Mar 2011 09:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nextset: Methinks you&#039;re on the money with this one.  I&#039;ve seen the same in corporations more than one time too many.  Someone will sell their story, woven with but one strand of truth, then the buyer (either still believing in the overstated value of their purchase, or lying to cover their embarrassment over having been so easily duped) will propagate the tale and/or embellish it enough to cover the portion they found untrue.

Unfortunately for these, one fact remains: In order to get away with being bad, one must first be the best at being good - and that&#039;s a very difficult thing to do.  It&#039;s always much easier to just remain with the truth, no matter what you believe others might prefer to hear or how painful it may be to do so.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextset: Methinks you&#8217;re on the money with this one.  I&#8217;ve seen the same in corporations more than one time too many.  Someone will sell their story, woven with but one strand of truth, then the buyer (either still believing in the overstated value of their purchase, or lying to cover their embarrassment over having been so easily duped) will propagate the tale and/or embellish it enough to cover the portion they found untrue.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for these, one fact remains: In order to get away with being bad, one must first be the best at being good &#8211; and that&#8217;s a very difficult thing to do.  It&#8217;s always much easier to just remain with the truth, no matter what you believe others might prefer to hear or how painful it may be to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35530</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Mar 2011 04:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35530</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Enough Ignorance: It&#039;s great to see your opinion, for what it&#039;s worth. I can better guage it&#039;s worth if you tell us something about yourself. You sound young. You sound rather liberal - have you ever made a payroll, run a business? Have you ever made a living doing anything other than &quot;counseling&quot;? 

You also seemed to have some difficulty reading my post - what is your education level? You are throwing around the racism term as if I care, or as if use of that term means anything. Did you attend a &quot;competitive&quot; school? Have you ever counseled students in a competitive program?

My comments about this story stand - you are welcome not to like it. I don&#039;t opine to suit you. My opinions are my own as are yours. Maybe you should re-read my posts.

My primary concern here is a young teacher who fails to take sob stories with a grain of salt, and my continuing concern for educrats who want to place garlands of flowers around the necks of just about anyone for no good reason, other than being black or brown and having a reflection in the mirror.

I expect anyone to stay out of trouble, I don&#039;t insult someone by praising them for it. If a teacher maintains his professional detachment and distance he won&#039;t feel the need to praise students for nothing.

Yes, just because you teach ghetto kids you don&#039;t have to praise them for insignificant achievement. That is a bad thing to do and sets them up for trouble later. You accept work properly done with mere acknowledgement and chastise a student for falling below your expectations.  Singular achievement you can praise. 

Now exactly what is it about Aurelio would you call a singular achievement? Nothing that I can see. It&#039;s nice that he got in touch. That&#039;s all we really have to work with. Wish him well. 

Maybe when you&#039;re grown and you work with or spend time with people of real distinction - black, white, or any other color, you will understand what I&#039;m saying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enough Ignorance: It&#8217;s great to see your opinion, for what it&#8217;s worth. I can better guage it&#8217;s worth if you tell us something about yourself. You sound young. You sound rather liberal &#8211; have you ever made a payroll, run a business? Have you ever made a living doing anything other than &#8220;counseling&#8221;? </p>
<p>You also seemed to have some difficulty reading my post &#8211; what is your education level? You are throwing around the racism term as if I care, or as if use of that term means anything. Did you attend a &#8220;competitive&#8221; school? Have you ever counseled students in a competitive program?</p>
<p>My comments about this story stand &#8211; you are welcome not to like it. I don&#8217;t opine to suit you. My opinions are my own as are yours. Maybe you should re-read my posts.</p>
<p>My primary concern here is a young teacher who fails to take sob stories with a grain of salt, and my continuing concern for educrats who want to place garlands of flowers around the necks of just about anyone for no good reason, other than being black or brown and having a reflection in the mirror.</p>
<p>I expect anyone to stay out of trouble, I don&#8217;t insult someone by praising them for it. If a teacher maintains his professional detachment and distance he won&#8217;t feel the need to praise students for nothing.</p>
<p>Yes, just because you teach ghetto kids you don&#8217;t have to praise them for insignificant achievement. That is a bad thing to do and sets them up for trouble later. You accept work properly done with mere acknowledgement and chastise a student for falling below your expectations.  Singular achievement you can praise. </p>
<p>Now exactly what is it about Aurelio would you call a singular achievement? Nothing that I can see. It&#8217;s nice that he got in touch. That&#8217;s all we really have to work with. Wish him well. </p>
<p>Maybe when you&#8217;re grown and you work with or spend time with people of real distinction &#8211; black, white, or any other color, you will understand what I&#8217;m saying.</p>
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		<title>By: Enough Ignorance</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35528</link>
		<dc:creator>Enough Ignorance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Mar 2011 22:27:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am appalled at the responses to this story.  This is a public forum that our OUSD students have access to, and Nextset is broadcasting his racism and ignorance to students who are in very similar situations to Aurelio.  I work in a public school in Oakland as a college counselor, and half of the students I work with are undocumented.  These students are the hardest working, respectful, and bright students out of all the students I work with.  Most of them receive straight A&#039;s and think about college more than any of their peers because they do not have the privilege of free financial aid that their friends do.  Nextset, you call Aurelio an, &quot;illegal alien invader&quot; who, &quot;is associated with criminal gangsters (as is the problem with the Mexican Invasion), finishes school (graduated?) declines to go to either community college or trade schools (which I believe do enroll illegal aliens).  You speak of Aurelio&#039;s lies, but already you have made a number of assumptions and lies about who he is when you have no idea.  Did you not see in the story that he did not get involved in gangs?  Why do you question whether Aurelio graduated?

There is a vast injustice happening to our public schools to our undocumented students who did not choose to be undocumented and face hardships in their lives that most of us with never understand.  They grew up here alongside their peers since they were children, they share the same culture and lifestyle, and in every other way except for their papers, they are Americans.  They attend our public schools, and they work hard to be outstanding members of our communities even though they face challenges their peers do not.  How dare Nextset look down on Aurelio for working in roofing because that is a &quot;job where there are the most injuries&quot;.  Here your ignorance is painstakingly apparent.  Do you think Aurelio had the same choices as far as getting a job as his peers who are citizens?  Being undocumented means you cannot find a job, or go to school unless you have money to pay for it yourself.  First you shun him for being a &quot;criminal gangster&quot; and then you look down on him for working in roofing?  Why would he want to enroll in the Armed Forces to protect a country of people like you who refuse to give him a chance?  Aurelio was doing what he could with the opportunities given to him.  Obviously you, Nextset, who apparently works in courts does not understand what it means to go to college if you are an undocumented, first generation student.  Who paid for your law school (that is, if you even went)?  What counselor in what community told you you were good enough to go to college?  Did you receive financial aid? Did your parents have a college education who helped you along your way?  Even if you didn&#039;t receive all of these things, know that the student you are dismissing and insulting probably didn&#039;t have any of these.

Enough of trying to educate someone who does not deserve even a moment of our students time.  To those undocumented students who might be reading this and deal with racism such as this everyday: KEEP GOING.  You will encounter those who try to call you what you are not because they have never seen or been through what you have.  You inspire me and so many others by simply continuing being strong in your communities and facing those who would block your way with their ignorance.  You are amazing students who deserve to go to college with financial like your peers and find a road to citizenship like Aurelio.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am appalled at the responses to this story.  This is a public forum that our OUSD students have access to, and Nextset is broadcasting his racism and ignorance to students who are in very similar situations to Aurelio.  I work in a public school in Oakland as a college counselor, and half of the students I work with are undocumented.  These students are the hardest working, respectful, and bright students out of all the students I work with.  Most of them receive straight A&#8217;s and think about college more than any of their peers because they do not have the privilege of free financial aid that their friends do.  Nextset, you call Aurelio an, &#8220;illegal alien invader&#8221; who, &#8220;is associated with criminal gangsters (as is the problem with the Mexican Invasion), finishes school (graduated?) declines to go to either community college or trade schools (which I believe do enroll illegal aliens).  You speak of Aurelio&#8217;s lies, but already you have made a number of assumptions and lies about who he is when you have no idea.  Did you not see in the story that he did not get involved in gangs?  Why do you question whether Aurelio graduated?</p>
<p>There is a vast injustice happening to our public schools to our undocumented students who did not choose to be undocumented and face hardships in their lives that most of us with never understand.  They grew up here alongside their peers since they were children, they share the same culture and lifestyle, and in every other way except for their papers, they are Americans.  They attend our public schools, and they work hard to be outstanding members of our communities even though they face challenges their peers do not.  How dare Nextset look down on Aurelio for working in roofing because that is a &#8220;job where there are the most injuries&#8221;.  Here your ignorance is painstakingly apparent.  Do you think Aurelio had the same choices as far as getting a job as his peers who are citizens?  Being undocumented means you cannot find a job, or go to school unless you have money to pay for it yourself.  First you shun him for being a &#8220;criminal gangster&#8221; and then you look down on him for working in roofing?  Why would he want to enroll in the Armed Forces to protect a country of people like you who refuse to give him a chance?  Aurelio was doing what he could with the opportunities given to him.  Obviously you, Nextset, who apparently works in courts does not understand what it means to go to college if you are an undocumented, first generation student.  Who paid for your law school (that is, if you even went)?  What counselor in what community told you you were good enough to go to college?  Did you receive financial aid? Did your parents have a college education who helped you along your way?  Even if you didn&#8217;t receive all of these things, know that the student you are dismissing and insulting probably didn&#8217;t have any of these.</p>
<p>Enough of trying to educate someone who does not deserve even a moment of our students time.  To those undocumented students who might be reading this and deal with racism such as this everyday: KEEP GOING.  You will encounter those who try to call you what you are not because they have never seen or been through what you have.  You inspire me and so many others by simply continuing being strong in your communities and facing those who would block your way with their ignorance.  You are amazing students who deserve to go to college with financial like your peers and find a road to citizenship like Aurelio.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35439</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 17:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rick:  Save us from White Liberals!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick:  Save us from White Liberals!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35415</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Mar 2011 05:35:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nextset,

I agree with you brother. I grew up with some of the best cons in the world. This is easy to see through. 

&quot;Poor white people&quot; as my grandma used to say, &quot;When God said &quot;brains, they thought God said &quot;rain&quot; and they ran for cover.&quot; They just don&#039;t get.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextset,</p>
<p>I agree with you brother. I grew up with some of the best cons in the world. This is easy to see through. </p>
<p>&#8220;Poor white people&#8221; as my grandma used to say, &#8220;When God said &#8220;brains, they thought God said &#8220;rain&#8221; and they ran for cover.&#8221; They just don&#8217;t get.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35399</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 23:00:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35399</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cranky:  If you want to compare your experience and insight with mine in a courtroom, go right ahead. Bet money on it. Bet time on it.

There is a reason why a man is in custody and a mere driving without a license isn&#039;t likely to be that reason. Tickets are given for that.

California is full of illegal alien invaders and they are constantly in and out of our courts. Especially traffic court where Mexicans are by far the dominant defendants in many counties. In 30 years I&#039;ve not seen or heard of someone being deported or being asked to sign a deportation agreement just because of a CVC § 14601 ticket. Those cases are common with illegals, they agree to pay a fine and are on their way.

The story is so far out of line it is in my experienced opinion not accurate. Felonies get you deported (and sometimes only when you get more than a year and a day in prison rather than county jail) - or the most serious misdemeanor - child molesting.

While anything is possible, I and We were not born last night.

So we have you presuming to say someone who works in the courts can&#039;t reasonably be allowed to have an opinion on facts like these...  

And this is what we have teaching students at OUSD.

You substitute your wants and your desires for established data and statistics. People who do this in card games are called losers. People who do this in life are called losers also. Don&#039;t train your students to be losers. There is too much winning available for the taking and the poor kids shouldn&#039;t have to go to Piedmont schools in order to win.

It is not a distorted view of humanity to perceive when someone is telling a sob story. It is a skill that well trained teenagers should be picking up in schools. Alas, they have to have good teachers to train them to be dispassionate in dealing with people and use all their wits and senses to not be fooled or victimized (by friends, foes and strangers).

That skill can save their lives starting at 18 and every day thereafter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cranky:  If you want to compare your experience and insight with mine in a courtroom, go right ahead. Bet money on it. Bet time on it.</p>
<p>There is a reason why a man is in custody and a mere driving without a license isn&#8217;t likely to be that reason. Tickets are given for that.</p>
<p>California is full of illegal alien invaders and they are constantly in and out of our courts. Especially traffic court where Mexicans are by far the dominant defendants in many counties. In 30 years I&#8217;ve not seen or heard of someone being deported or being asked to sign a deportation agreement just because of a CVC § 14601 ticket. Those cases are common with illegals, they agree to pay a fine and are on their way.</p>
<p>The story is so far out of line it is in my experienced opinion not accurate. Felonies get you deported (and sometimes only when you get more than a year and a day in prison rather than county jail) &#8211; or the most serious misdemeanor &#8211; child molesting.</p>
<p>While anything is possible, I and We were not born last night.</p>
<p>So we have you presuming to say someone who works in the courts can&#8217;t reasonably be allowed to have an opinion on facts like these&#8230;  </p>
<p>And this is what we have teaching students at OUSD.</p>
<p>You substitute your wants and your desires for established data and statistics. People who do this in card games are called losers. People who do this in life are called losers also. Don&#8217;t train your students to be losers. There is too much winning available for the taking and the poor kids shouldn&#8217;t have to go to Piedmont schools in order to win.</p>
<p>It is not a distorted view of humanity to perceive when someone is telling a sob story. It is a skill that well trained teenagers should be picking up in schools. Alas, they have to have good teachers to train them to be dispassionate in dealing with people and use all their wits and senses to not be fooled or victimized (by friends, foes and strangers).</p>
<p>That skill can save their lives starting at 18 and every day thereafter.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Teacher</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35390</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Teacher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:46:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35390</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nextset, you have a better imagination than these pathological liars you encounter. 

Guy may not have developed into a rocket scientist, but you&#039;re assuming &quot;there is likely to be a felony in this affair somewhere.&quot; 

Whatever you job is, it has apparently distorted your view of humanity to be entirely dark. 

Kids lie, adults lie, sure. We know this. They also sometimes tell the truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextset, you have a better imagination than these pathological liars you encounter. </p>
<p>Guy may not have developed into a rocket scientist, but you&#8217;re assuming &#8220;there is likely to be a felony in this affair somewhere.&#8221; </p>
<p>Whatever you job is, it has apparently distorted your view of humanity to be entirely dark. </p>
<p>Kids lie, adults lie, sure. We know this. They also sometimes tell the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: On The Fence</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35365</link>
		<dc:creator>On The Fence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 05:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35365</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nextset,

No, no, I must not have stated my point.  I actually don&#039;t see any evidence of superior student achievement, or any particularly interesting schooling/teaching issue in this story.  Nor was the character in this tale particularly compelling, although I generally wish him well.  And yes, my response was simple and pure pleasure to hear about the chance encounter of Aurelio and the lawyer who would end up helping him in his darkest hour!  What pushed my button was not the student or his personal story, but rather the idea of chance.  Although a little beyond the scope of this blog, there are days that hearing about coincidences, serendipity, miracles, an aligned universe, and general good luck help to rekindle my own spirits.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nextset,</p>
<p>No, no, I must not have stated my point.  I actually don&#8217;t see any evidence of superior student achievement, or any particularly interesting schooling/teaching issue in this story.  Nor was the character in this tale particularly compelling, although I generally wish him well.  And yes, my response was simple and pure pleasure to hear about the chance encounter of Aurelio and the lawyer who would end up helping him in his darkest hour!  What pushed my button was not the student or his personal story, but rather the idea of chance.  Although a little beyond the scope of this blog, there are days that hearing about coincidences, serendipity, miracles, an aligned universe, and general good luck help to rekindle my own spirits.</p>
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		<title>By: OUSD lifer</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35363</link>
		<dc:creator>OUSD lifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 04:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see the point of these stories is two-fold:
1. To remind all of us in the community that, if given love and support, kids have the potential to turn out ok in the world despite the fact that the odds are against them...and please be clear that the odds are stacked against some kids to an incredible height.  So maybe someone who reads these types of stories will actually get involved in the lives of young people and make a difference with their life by putting their privilege to work for the greater good.  
2.  To remind those of us that actually DO this work (versus those who sit around blogging in judgement of how WE do this work) that our work has an impact and that we may not ever see the positive outcomes of our hard work and dedication, but some of the seeds we plant do come to fruition.

These are not the only stories of success, but please don&#039;t judge until you have been the one who sat at work in fear that the kid who is tardy is the reason that three cop cars just sped past with sirens blaring after gunfire shot through the sky.  And, no, I&#039;m not being dramatic, I&#039;m telling it like it is.  I challenge you go try to do this work.  It&#039;s hard...harder than you could ever imagine or handle becase, no matter your politics, these are real, live kids we&#039;re talking about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the point of these stories is two-fold:<br />
1. To remind all of us in the community that, if given love and support, kids have the potential to turn out ok in the world despite the fact that the odds are against them&#8230;and please be clear that the odds are stacked against some kids to an incredible height.  So maybe someone who reads these types of stories will actually get involved in the lives of young people and make a difference with their life by putting their privilege to work for the greater good.<br />
2.  To remind those of us that actually DO this work (versus those who sit around blogging in judgement of how WE do this work) that our work has an impact and that we may not ever see the positive outcomes of our hard work and dedication, but some of the seeds we plant do come to fruition.</p>
<p>These are not the only stories of success, but please don&#8217;t judge until you have been the one who sat at work in fear that the kid who is tardy is the reason that three cop cars just sped past with sirens blaring after gunfire shot through the sky.  And, no, I&#8217;m not being dramatic, I&#8217;m telling it like it is.  I challenge you go try to do this work.  It&#8217;s hard&#8230;harder than you could ever imagine or handle becase, no matter your politics, these are real, live kids we&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Hot r</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/03/07/aurelios-redemption/comment-page-1/#comment-35361</link>
		<dc:creator>Hot r</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Mar 2011 03:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=11904#comment-35361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I often wonder what the point of these stories can be?  Is this an uplifting tale of achievement?    I Am glad that Aurelio is not in jail, but I have to agree with Nextset.  I just heard from one of my old students yesterday too.  He graduated  from Stanford, as the first in his family to attend college,  received the departmental award as the top student in his field, a National Science Foundation scholarship for graduate school, and will be interning with Tesla this summer.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often wonder what the point of these stories can be?  Is this an uplifting tale of achievement?    I Am glad that Aurelio is not in jail, but I have to agree with Nextset.  I just heard from one of my old students yesterday too.  He graduated  from Stanford, as the first in his family to attend college,  received the departmental award as the top student in his field, a National Science Foundation scholarship for graduate school, and will be interning with Tesla this summer.</p>
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