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	<title>Comments on: No layoffs for Oakland&#8217;s elementary school teachers</title>
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	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36695</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2011 18:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36695</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bellabaroo:

Donate money.  Convince 2 Republicans in each house of the state legislature to vote to put the tax extensions on the ballot.  Support a parcel tax.  It all comes down to generating more revenue.  The District is getting a lot more money than it used to; it is tough to make any improvements in that situation unless that changes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bellabaroo:</p>
<p>Donate money.  Convince 2 Republicans in each house of the state legislature to vote to put the tax extensions on the ballot.  Support a parcel tax.  It all comes down to generating more revenue.  The District is getting a lot more money than it used to; it is tough to make any improvements in that situation unless that changes.</p>
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		<title>By: Bellabaroo</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36686</link>
		<dc:creator>Bellabaroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Apr 2011 02:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36686</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[thanks for the clarification.  And to be clear, I am not certain Peralta is losing a teacher, have just been informed that it&#039;s a possibility.  Now the next question is, what can a community do? What can Peralta or Crocker Highlands do, if anything, to keep class size smaller and/or keep their teaching positions?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the clarification.  And to be clear, I am not certain Peralta is losing a teacher, have just been informed that it&#8217;s a possibility.  Now the next question is, what can a community do? What can Peralta or Crocker Highlands do, if anything, to keep class size smaller and/or keep their teaching positions?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Weinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36684</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Weinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 23:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36684</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Trish&#039;s description of RBB is correct. The idea was to give each school community an opportunity to decide how to spend its per pupil allocation. The district takes what it needs for central services off the top and then divides the rest up on a per student basis. There is a different formula for elementary, middle, and high schools, and there were once factors giving more funds to small schools and schools with senior (more expensive) staffs. I know the funds for senior staff have been reduced over the years, but I don&#039;t think they have been entirely eliminated.
In addition to the general fund money which is allocated by the formula, schools receive additional special funds from the state or federal governments based on need (percentage of students qualifying for free and reduced price lunches, number of English Language Learners, etc.) Allocation of these funds require the approval of the School Site Councils at those sites. If a site has a special grant, such as Quality Education Investment Act funds, those are also added to the site&#039;s budget.
I&#039;m not sure whether RBB is a net positive or net negative for students, but the problem with its implementation in Oakland is that it coincided with funding cutbacks. Under RBB the central administration does not take the blame for the elimination of middle school librarians (whose numbers have shrunk greatly during the RBB years) because each site made its own decision to eliminate the position, but the central cutbacks in funding forced the schools to do so or lose something else they needed.
It is not really fair to say that any positions are being eliminated this year because of RBB. The positions are being eliminated because the per student allocation has been cut and the decision makers at that site decided to eliminate that position to balance the budget.
But it is true that if the district followed the Edmonton model of RBB (average, rather than actual site costs for employees) some schools would benefit and some would be hurt.
Trish is also correct that no part of Results Based Budgeting has anything to do with results.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish&#8217;s description of RBB is correct. The idea was to give each school community an opportunity to decide how to spend its per pupil allocation. The district takes what it needs for central services off the top and then divides the rest up on a per student basis. There is a different formula for elementary, middle, and high schools, and there were once factors giving more funds to small schools and schools with senior (more expensive) staffs. I know the funds for senior staff have been reduced over the years, but I don&#8217;t think they have been entirely eliminated.<br />
In addition to the general fund money which is allocated by the formula, schools receive additional special funds from the state or federal governments based on need (percentage of students qualifying for free and reduced price lunches, number of English Language Learners, etc.) Allocation of these funds require the approval of the School Site Councils at those sites. If a site has a special grant, such as Quality Education Investment Act funds, those are also added to the site&#8217;s budget.<br />
I&#8217;m not sure whether RBB is a net positive or net negative for students, but the problem with its implementation in Oakland is that it coincided with funding cutbacks. Under RBB the central administration does not take the blame for the elimination of middle school librarians (whose numbers have shrunk greatly during the RBB years) because each site made its own decision to eliminate the position, but the central cutbacks in funding forced the schools to do so or lose something else they needed.<br />
It is not really fair to say that any positions are being eliminated this year because of RBB. The positions are being eliminated because the per student allocation has been cut and the decision makers at that site decided to eliminate that position to balance the budget.<br />
But it is true that if the district followed the Edmonton model of RBB (average, rather than actual site costs for employees) some schools would benefit and some would be hurt.<br />
Trish is also correct that no part of Results Based Budgeting has anything to do with results.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mordecai</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36683</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mordecai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36683</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry:

I posted prespell check and post spell check drafts.

Jim Mordecai]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry:</p>
<p>I posted prespell check and post spell check drafts.</p>
<p>Jim Mordecai</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mordecai</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mordecai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 22:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gordon:

At last night&#039;s special School Board meeting it was apparent from reading many of the Board Members faces that RBB was not popular with the school board, and the administration represented by Mr. Hal, when the Board has to contend with budget cuts but must sit on its hands until each site makes the decision on program and personnel cuts.  RBB meaning real bad budgeting procedure is very frustrating to central administration during this period of cut, cut, and cut.  And, when central administration disagrees with cuts as in the case in the past when clerical personnel that worked enrollment data at school sites were cut, there is even further delay in budget management.

The idea for what Randy Ward its created called Results Based Budgeting and what Superintendent Smith having to work with Ouchi&#039;s idea left over from the State take-over that Superintendent Smith publicly calls &quot;enrollment based budgeting&quot; not connected to results, was guided by book called Making Schools Work by William G. Ouchi, Anderson school of business, UCLA.

Ouchi&#039;s idea is better allocation of resources by decentralizing decision to school sites.  It is not an idea that obviously works well with declining resources and the need to quickly respond to surprise cuts from Sacramento. 

Jim Mordecai
Gordon:

At last night&#039;s special School Board meeting it was apparent from reading many of the Board Members faces that RBB was not popular with the school board, and the administration represented by Mr. Hal, when the Board has to contend with budget cuts but must sit on its hands until each site makes the decision on program and personnel cuts.  RBB meaning real bad budgeting procedure is very frustrating to central administration during this period of cut, cut, and cut.  And, when central administration disagrees with cuts as in the case in the past when clerical personnel that worked enrollment data at school sites were cut, there is even further delay in budget management.

The idea for what Randy Ward its created called Results Based Budgeting and what Superintendent Smith having to work with Ouchi&#039;s idea left over from the State take-over that Superintendent Smith publicly calls &quot;enrollment based budgeting&quot; not connected to results, was guided by book called Making Schools Work by William G. Ouchi, Anderson school of business, UCLA.

Ouchi&#039;s idea is better allocation of resources by decentralizing decision to school sites.  It is not an idea that obviously works well with declining resources and the need to quickly respond to surprise cuts from Sacramento. 

Jim Mordecai]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon:</p>
<p>At last night&#8217;s special School Board meeting it was apparent from reading many of the Board Members faces that RBB was not popular with the school board, and the administration represented by Mr. Hal, when the Board has to contend with budget cuts but must sit on its hands until each site makes the decision on program and personnel cuts.  RBB meaning real bad budgeting procedure is very frustrating to central administration during this period of cut, cut, and cut.  And, when central administration disagrees with cuts as in the case in the past when clerical personnel that worked enrollment data at school sites were cut, there is even further delay in budget management.</p>
<p>The idea for what Randy Ward its created called Results Based Budgeting and what Superintendent Smith having to work with Ouchi&#8217;s idea left over from the State take-over that Superintendent Smith publicly calls &#8220;enrollment based budgeting&#8221; not connected to results, was guided by book called Making Schools Work by William G. Ouchi, Anderson school of business, UCLA.</p>
<p>Ouchi&#8217;s idea is better allocation of resources by decentralizing decision to school sites.  It is not an idea that obviously works well with declining resources and the need to quickly respond to surprise cuts from Sacramento. </p>
<p>Jim Mordecai<br />
Gordon:</p>
<p>At last night&#8217;s special School Board meeting it was apparent from reading many of the Board Members faces that RBB was not popular with the school board, and the administration represented by Mr. Hal, when the Board has to contend with budget cuts but must sit on its hands until each site makes the decision on program and personnel cuts.  RBB meaning real bad budgeting procedure is very frustrating to central administration during this period of cut, cut, and cut.  And, when central administration disagrees with cuts as in the case in the past when clerical personnel that worked enrollment data at school sites were cut, there is even further delay in budget management.</p>
<p>The idea for what Randy Ward its created called Results Based Budgeting and what Superintendent Smith having to work with Ouchi&#8217;s idea left over from the State take-over that Superintendent Smith publicly calls &#8220;enrollment based budgeting&#8221; not connected to results, was guided by book called Making Schools Work by William G. Ouchi, Anderson school of business, UCLA.</p>
<p>Ouchi&#8217;s idea is better allocation of resources by decentralizing decision to school sites.  It is not an idea that obviously works well with declining resources and the need to quickly respond to surprise cuts from Sacramento. </p>
<p>Jim Mordecai</p>
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		<title>By: Trish Gorham</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36678</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Gorham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36678</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gordon-
Peralta does have a high percentage of veteran staff. And you said yourself in your post that more veteran staff may have a negative impact on budgets. I do know for a fact that the Peralta principal would do anything possible to prevent higher class sizes and combination classes.

ALEC supporting student-based funding is suspect because, like many conservative organizations, their aim is to dismantle the public school system. Having the money follow the student is another way to say voucher. It is one of many end runs these groups are using to undermine the right of ALL students to a quality public education guaranteed by the government. It matters who supports it because what helps kids is not what their agenda is about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon-<br />
Peralta does have a high percentage of veteran staff. And you said yourself in your post that more veteran staff may have a negative impact on budgets. I do know for a fact that the Peralta principal would do anything possible to prevent higher class sizes and combination classes.</p>
<p>ALEC supporting student-based funding is suspect because, like many conservative organizations, their aim is to dismantle the public school system. Having the money follow the student is another way to say voucher. It is one of many end runs these groups are using to undermine the right of ALL students to a quality public education guaranteed by the government. It matters who supports it because what helps kids is not what their agenda is about.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36676</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 21:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36676</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Trish:

Do we know for a fact that Peralta is losing a teacher &quot;because of RBB&quot;?  Does Peralta have an unusually highly paid staff?

Also, I don&#039;t get why the fact that a conservative group is pushing RBB constitutes a &quot;problem with RBB.&quot; Either it helps kids, or it doesn&#039;t - why does it matter who supports it?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trish:</p>
<p>Do we know for a fact that Peralta is losing a teacher &#8220;because of RBB&#8221;?  Does Peralta have an unusually highly paid staff?</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t get why the fact that a conservative group is pushing RBB constitutes a &#8220;problem with RBB.&#8221; Either it helps kids, or it doesn&#8217;t &#8211; why does it matter who supports it?</p>
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		<title>By: Trish Gorham</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36675</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Gorham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 20:39:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Results Based Budgeting(no one has ever defined how or what results determine that which the budget is based on)is the local version of what is usually called student-based or student-weighted funding. The money is supposed to follow the student, and then the site applies &quot;market forces&quot; to purchase teachers, custodians, supplies, etc.

If you are losing a teacher because of RBB it is definitely because you have a more expensive, veteran staff. That is the case at Peralta.

When implemented, it was advertised as a way to have more site decision-making. But in reality, it pushes sites into making draconian decisions based on, often, incomprehensible budget allocations.

The model for the program has been Edmonton, Canada.
But like almost everything, OUSD takes what might be considered a working model elsewhere and applies it in ways that has little to do with the original model.

In Edmonton, each site pays for staff out of their own budget. BUT each site pays the exact same amount for each teacher based on a district average. This ensures that staffing decisions are not made based on how much an individual teacher costs. A school should not have its budget depleted because it has veteran teachers. 

There are many problems with RBB, but I think the most telling is that it is being actively pushed by ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council), the group responsible for crafting the Arizona immigration law.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Results Based Budgeting(no one has ever defined how or what results determine that which the budget is based on)is the local version of what is usually called student-based or student-weighted funding. The money is supposed to follow the student, and then the site applies &#8220;market forces&#8221; to purchase teachers, custodians, supplies, etc.</p>
<p>If you are losing a teacher because of RBB it is definitely because you have a more expensive, veteran staff. That is the case at Peralta.</p>
<p>When implemented, it was advertised as a way to have more site decision-making. But in reality, it pushes sites into making draconian decisions based on, often, incomprehensible budget allocations.</p>
<p>The model for the program has been Edmonton, Canada.<br />
But like almost everything, OUSD takes what might be considered a working model elsewhere and applies it in ways that has little to do with the original model.</p>
<p>In Edmonton, each site pays for staff out of their own budget. BUT each site pays the exact same amount for each teacher based on a district average. This ensures that staffing decisions are not made based on how much an individual teacher costs. A school should not have its budget depleted because it has veteran teachers. </p>
<p>There are many problems with RBB, but I think the most telling is that it is being actively pushed by ALEC (American Legislative Exchange Council), the group responsible for crafting the Arizona immigration law.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon Danning</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36671</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon Danning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 18:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Bellabaroo:

My basic understanding of RBB is that each school is given a certain amount of money, and each principal can spend it as she or he withes.  I don&#039;t know that RBB has anything to do with layoffs/class sizes, in that districts without RBB are also laying off teachers and increasing class sizes.

One issue at those specific schools might be that under RBB, a school with many veteran (ie, expensive) teachers will not be able to hire as many teachers (or other things) as a school with young and cheap teachers.  But it might well be that the schools in question here do not have that issue, and that class sizes are going up because the principals are doing that instead of cutting other things.

But, the real RBB expert on here is Steve Weinberg, so Steve, can you help clarify this?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bellabaroo:</p>
<p>My basic understanding of RBB is that each school is given a certain amount of money, and each principal can spend it as she or he withes.  I don&#8217;t know that RBB has anything to do with layoffs/class sizes, in that districts without RBB are also laying off teachers and increasing class sizes.</p>
<p>One issue at those specific schools might be that under RBB, a school with many veteran (ie, expensive) teachers will not be able to hire as many teachers (or other things) as a school with young and cheap teachers.  But it might well be that the schools in question here do not have that issue, and that class sizes are going up because the principals are doing that instead of cutting other things.</p>
<p>But, the real RBB expert on here is Steve Weinberg, so Steve, can you help clarify this?</p>
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		<title>By: Bellabaroo</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/04/13/no-layoffs-for-oaklands-elementary-school-teachers/comment-page-1/#comment-36667</link>
		<dc:creator>Bellabaroo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 16:19:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=12249#comment-36667</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow Crocker too? I wasn&#039;t aware of that. I know all schools are being hit hard, but 30 kids in K and 1st classes is pretty nuts.  I think these schools will have TA&#039;s in the class room, which is great. But I just wonder how much time will be spent on just class room management rather than instruction with that many kids.  Would love to understand more about RBB and why such successful schools lose a teacher and have no replacement. Better start researching!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow Crocker too? I wasn&#8217;t aware of that. I know all schools are being hit hard, but 30 kids in K and 1st classes is pretty nuts.  I think these schools will have TA&#8217;s in the class room, which is great. But I just wonder how much time will be spent on just class room management rather than instruction with that many kids.  Would love to understand more about RBB and why such successful schools lose a teacher and have no replacement. Better start researching!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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