Nothing you are saying requires the conclusion that IQ is not immutable.

Remember, within any family grouping of children there will be a range. Moreover, the decision to join the military from your adopted family, as opposed to shooting heroin, isn’t random either. I don’t see you have established any study large enough or random enough to make your point. I read your comment that SOME children born poor and adopted rich scored better than born poor and stayed poor and took the test.

I don’t have enough data from your references above to conclude this “study” was large enough, etc. to conclude “always” rather than “some” which is what you are reaching for.

IQ once established by late adolescence does not magically increase by teaching. Sorry, it seems to be an immutable fact. Our students are whatever they are and the differences become clear by puberty and the following years. Some are able to handle increasingly complex material cognitively and others cannot. And the difference is noticed in behavior where duller students exhibit short term & present oriented thinking and the brighter students progress into longer term orientation, play a better chess game and get arrested less even if they are jerks.

He a crackpot?? Not a serious researcher??

I looked it up myself, but since I’m genuinely not willing to link to the white supremacy webpages that extol it more directly, you’ll all have to settle for a Hatewatch blurb which doesn’t have Nextset’s exact figures:

http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2008/09/04/white-nationalists-applaud-american-enterprise-institute-fellow/

Suffice to say that the dude “compiling” this horse@#$t was a college student in 2009 and has since evidently disappeared off the face of the map.

The African immigrants are quite interesting – Nigerians and Ethiopians for example. Those that actually got themselves here seem to surpass the indigenous black population average IQ despite having some things in common that are liabilities. You can see the results in schools now. Iceplant… Same issues with blacks from military backgrounds and their children (preselected for IQ by the military) compared to urban blacks in general – the differences in occupations and educational attainment are striking and you can see why.

I’m going off thread I suppose. My point is people are sure as hell not created equal (except before the law) – that’s just PC nonsense. It’s not the primary education that sets people apart although superior training/education may make all the difference with similar cognitive ranks. The differences we’re having to deal with in the high schools and the colleges are to a large degree the differences in the people who are surging into these narrow channels. Which is why immigration is a big problem for the existing USA black population who have the most to lose with these floodgates open.

So do I think we should re-direct any resources to immigrants when we refuse to teach blacks (or the rest of the proletariat) how to drive a car in urban high schools? Or to swim? Or much of anything else to make possible military enlistment or a job in industry & commerce? NO, we should not redirect limited resources to immigrants.

I think we should reinstate all the basic education needed to start on the ladder of society (for all our citizen children) in the public schools before we help Pakistanis into Cal, Mexicans into anything or the talented 10th into college. It’s more important to provide a floor below which 50% of the OUSD blacks can’t fall (the drop rate) than to cater to the favored few. We wouldn’t have the drop rate if the OUSD schools provided a program these students saw as valuable to them (not college prep – vocational, industrial and technical). College prep can be available but never forced down throats to the point of 50% of an ethnic walking out. Teaching standard Conversational English to all is more important than teaching college prep algebra to the brights.

That’s only my feeling and I’m biased in favor of the urban blacks returning to the days of the mid ’60s when things were expected to be ok and get better. This is in no way the position of the ruling democratic party of CA and the USA.

Brave New World.

Yes it might b better than where they are. But more and more it’s not…

This nation with any of it’s faults is still the best place to make it in one generation. Ask any Eastern European refugee – such as the hordes of Russians settled in Northern CA. And the Asian refugees. They particularly laugh at how easy our taxes are to evade, and how weak our criminal system and penalties are.

Immigrants are Iceplant in the garden. If you do not control your borders your garden will not be recognizable in the future and good luck restoring it to the original plan. The original plants will be replaced by the more dominant plants. Iceplant, in this example.

Are we going to protect the people who are already here and are citizens – the urban blacks – or are we going to allow any particular group of 3rd worlders to come into the US without leave and supplant them? That’s a rhetorical question because the answer is clearly obvious. Too bad for the blacks. Of course some will survive in the Brave New World. But what do you think will happen to the 50% or whatever the number is that drops out of OUSD – and their descendants?

Interesting intersection between Educational Policy and Invasion Control policy. Brave New World!

For the record I would see a policy where legal status would be required to enroll or remain in any public school at any level K-University. Anyone else can go to Church Schools or private schools, perhaps paid for by their own Consulates. I don’t believe the citizens/taxpayers should have to pay for their dispossession in their own nation. But that’s just my opinion. Legal Immigration is one thing and that’s controversial also. Opening floodgates and damn the consequences to us is another.

The problem has existed longer than news about it, but the reality is it has quietly built into a much bigger problem than it used to be. For poor of any background, the situation and environment are worse today than they were 10, 20, or 30 years ago.

The current generation has gone into hi-tech and defense contracting – but some are on welfare. In every family grouping there is a spread of talent and an average. The trick is to get the best life out of whatever you have to work with. Some of even my younger relatives got comfortable in adolescence doing whatever they felt like. They didn’t make it. I like to think the brighter ones have all done well. We don’t beat the dummies into obedience (and keeping a job) anymore. They just go on welfare.

You only have to be so smart to be a cop – you can be blocked from that occupation if the IQ testing comes in too high. But you cannot have a problem with the background. My point is that if we use the schools to get the discipline under control we can have more black cops and firemen, etc. (as Chicago started having Irish Cops and Firemen in the 1930s when the Irish were reviled). With behavior and discipline in bounds at the end of adolescence there are jobs in this society for most everybody – at least there used to be.

The indiscipline we teach in the urban schools is fatal to the black students – as fatal as getting “senselessly” shot at a party you didn’t need to be at.

Thus my complaining about the black “students” ending up coming out of the urban schools wearing pajamas below their rear ends in public getting arrested on airplanes and such. The very concepts of behavior, deportment and why – are no longer being taught in the urban schools because the schools don’t want to “offend” by teaching “white” norms or whatever they want to call them. Like not having children out of wedlock and why. Like not taking charity and why, Like not being a burden to others and why, and so on.