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	<title>Comments on: New dropout formula, same problem</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: dentist Oakland ca</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38858</link>
		<dc:creator>dentist Oakland ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:20:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38858</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[People care NOW, because attention is focused on performance and results. There is attention and focus, and with that comes questions about how and why education is implemented. In short, tax provided ADA money is on the line and people are scrambling now that they actually NEED to do some work. They realize that people are paying attention, and there is fear in the air.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People care NOW, because attention is focused on performance and results. There is attention and focus, and with that comes questions about how and why education is implemented. In short, tax provided ADA money is on the line and people are scrambling now that they actually NEED to do some work. They realize that people are paying attention, and there is fear in the air.</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38838</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38838</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Got the book &quot;Unequal Childhoods&quot; by Annette Lareau. Very interesting reading. The writer is a sociologist. As usual she approaches the &quot;problem&quot; of different outcomes for people in a society (the USA here) accepting as gospel that the differences are only because of nurture. Biodiversity does not exist for such researchers. 

The writing of observations of the various target children and their families are very useful reads. It illustrates (to me) what a difficult/impossible job an urban teacher will have combining children from the various different socioeconomic groups into one classroom.

And the differences intensify after puberty. These children researched here appear to be late prepubescent or early pubescent - so the real fat isn&#039;t in the fire yet. That&#039;s where the cognitive differences become more extreme. I do see that she addresses the advantages and the disadvantages of the upbringing of both white and black low class and middle class kiddies. It should be noted that there are some areas of functioning where the higher class kids are not at an advantage - and vice versa. 

Which is reasonable enough. It&#039;s not all doom and gloom for the lower class. Teachers would probably enjoy the book.  As far as what to do with the insight and research material, who can say? 

If you drop an upper class child into the ghetto they are going to have problems and will leave.  If you drop a ghetto child into Bel Air they are going to freak and will leave. Either way you have problems and if they assimilate into the new reality (not likely) they are going to have further problems when they return to their natal society. 

So what does OUSD tell it&#039;s new teachers when the arrive at, say Castlemont? Should a school district teach the students in (the style of) their native &quot;culture&quot; or try to move them into a middle class/professional class way of being? 

This is where I go back to the idea of different schools for different folks using self-selection rather than the sorting hat. In other words, segregated schools. Except the segregated schools are to feed into occupations.  And noncompliance at any district school would result in Fs with little mercy.

Kind of like 1960.

OUSD and the other urban schools apparently have some other plan which is to produce better more productive lives for the urban school children. Los Angeles Unified, OUSD, SF-USD and the like.

Fred Reed has been writing for years now commenting on Urban Racial Issues among other things.  His description of urban youth is what I&#039;m worried about:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/LondonRiots.shtml

Good public schools would avoid these problems. Reed and others believe we are headed for very bad times ala Katrina conditions in the cities. These problems are what the USA public schools were to have prevented.

Brave New World.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Got the book &#8220;Unequal Childhoods&#8221; by Annette Lareau. Very interesting reading. The writer is a sociologist. As usual she approaches the &#8220;problem&#8221; of different outcomes for people in a society (the USA here) accepting as gospel that the differences are only because of nurture. Biodiversity does not exist for such researchers. </p>
<p>The writing of observations of the various target children and their families are very useful reads. It illustrates (to me) what a difficult/impossible job an urban teacher will have combining children from the various different socioeconomic groups into one classroom.</p>
<p>And the differences intensify after puberty. These children researched here appear to be late prepubescent or early pubescent &#8211; so the real fat isn&#8217;t in the fire yet. That&#8217;s where the cognitive differences become more extreme. I do see that she addresses the advantages and the disadvantages of the upbringing of both white and black low class and middle class kiddies. It should be noted that there are some areas of functioning where the higher class kids are not at an advantage &#8211; and vice versa. </p>
<p>Which is reasonable enough. It&#8217;s not all doom and gloom for the lower class. Teachers would probably enjoy the book.  As far as what to do with the insight and research material, who can say? </p>
<p>If you drop an upper class child into the ghetto they are going to have problems and will leave.  If you drop a ghetto child into Bel Air they are going to freak and will leave. Either way you have problems and if they assimilate into the new reality (not likely) they are going to have further problems when they return to their natal society. </p>
<p>So what does OUSD tell it&#8217;s new teachers when the arrive at, say Castlemont? Should a school district teach the students in (the style of) their native &#8220;culture&#8221; or try to move them into a middle class/professional class way of being? </p>
<p>This is where I go back to the idea of different schools for different folks using self-selection rather than the sorting hat. In other words, segregated schools. Except the segregated schools are to feed into occupations.  And noncompliance at any district school would result in Fs with little mercy.</p>
<p>Kind of like 1960.</p>
<p>OUSD and the other urban schools apparently have some other plan which is to produce better more productive lives for the urban school children. Los Angeles Unified, OUSD, SF-USD and the like.</p>
<p>Fred Reed has been writing for years now commenting on Urban Racial Issues among other things.  His description of urban youth is what I&#8217;m worried about:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fredoneverything.net/LondonRiots.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.fredoneverything.net/LondonRiots.shtml</a></p>
<p>Good public schools would avoid these problems. Reed and others believe we are headed for very bad times ala Katrina conditions in the cities. These problems are what the USA public schools were to have prevented.</p>
<p>Brave New World.</p>
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		<title>By: livegreen</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38837</link>
		<dc:creator>livegreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry, Board Member Kakishiba.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Board Member Kakishiba.</p>
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		<title>By: livegreen</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38836</link>
		<dc:creator>livegreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:19:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38836</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Middle Schools do not have the proper environment: children are unsupervised and given the same freedoms and lack of structure that highs schools have.  Kids are left on their own to f-up and they do.   Parents who can see this chaotic environment and then flee the district.

Middle Schools need more structure, somewhere in between Elementary School and what they have now.

And I was very surprised to read in a previous posting how Board Member Tadashi and some supporters here want to gut Middle School after school programs in favor of High Schools.  Gee, I wonder if that will make them more prepared?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Middle Schools do not have the proper environment: children are unsupervised and given the same freedoms and lack of structure that highs schools have.  Kids are left on their own to f-up and they do.   Parents who can see this chaotic environment and then flee the district.</p>
<p>Middle Schools need more structure, somewhere in between Elementary School and what they have now.</p>
<p>And I was very surprised to read in a previous posting how Board Member Tadashi and some supporters here want to gut Middle School after school programs in favor of High Schools.  Gee, I wonder if that will make them more prepared?</p>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38826</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:51:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38826</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[OUSD having a policy of no flunking is why an OUSD diploma&#039;ed applicant for any position cannot be taken at face value. You cannot assume the candidate can even read.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OUSD having a policy of no flunking is why an OUSD diploma&#8217;ed applicant for any position cannot be taken at face value. You cannot assume the candidate can even read.</p>
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		<title>By: Muriel</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38816</link>
		<dc:creator>Muriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 04:14:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38816</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Throwing out the promotion policy was not unintentional; neither was not enacting a new one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Throwing out the promotion policy was not unintentional; neither was not enacting a new one.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Mordecai</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38815</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Mordecai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 03:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38815</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Out of compliance with Ed Code that requires the School Board to pass a standards based promotion policy, Oakland does not have a promotion policy.  It does have a graduation policy.  Under state administration the state administration, I believe unintentionally, threw out the existing standards base promotion policy.  However, the missing policy has never been replaced low these many years.  

Jim Mordecai]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Out of compliance with Ed Code that requires the School Board to pass a standards based promotion policy, Oakland does not have a promotion policy.  It does have a graduation policy.  Under state administration the state administration, I believe unintentionally, threw out the existing standards base promotion policy.  However, the missing policy has never been replaced low these many years.  </p>
<p>Jim Mordecai</p>
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		<title>By: Harold</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38809</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Aug 2011 00:19:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38809</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Steve - Thanks for responding. In the absence of a &quot;well-funded&quot; effective program, we have a serious problem on our hands. 

O-High, Skyline and Tech are pushing College Prep coursework. That is going to be very difficult for those students arriving at these campuses, without the requisite skills to succeed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Steve &#8211; Thanks for responding. In the absence of a &#8220;well-funded&#8221; effective program, we have a serious problem on our hands. </p>
<p>O-High, Skyline and Tech are pushing College Prep coursework. That is going to be very difficult for those students arriving at these campuses, without the requisite skills to succeed.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Weinberg</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38808</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Weinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 23:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38808</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Several years ago, when Oakland did have a fairly strict promotion policy that required middle school students to have a C average for promotion to high school, my principal and I attended the California Middle School Conference. We asked people from many different districts how their schools dealt with students who were retained. In almost every case we were told that their districts did not retain any students, except at a parent&#039;s request. We were told again and again that retention at the middle school level had been proven to be ineffective in helping students.
My observations during the years that we did retain some students would support that assertion. Neither holding a student back, nor social promotion is an effective policy. What is needed are well-funded programs within the middle schools to decrease, as much as possible, the problems there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several years ago, when Oakland did have a fairly strict promotion policy that required middle school students to have a C average for promotion to high school, my principal and I attended the California Middle School Conference. We asked people from many different districts how their schools dealt with students who were retained. In almost every case we were told that their districts did not retain any students, except at a parent&#8217;s request. We were told again and again that retention at the middle school level had been proven to be ineffective in helping students.<br />
My observations during the years that we did retain some students would support that assertion. Neither holding a student back, nor social promotion is an effective policy. What is needed are well-funded programs within the middle schools to decrease, as much as possible, the problems there.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nextset</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/08/11/new-dropout-formula-same-problem/comment-page-1/#comment-38806</link>
		<dc:creator>Nextset</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 21:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13051#comment-38806</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Harold:  If OUSD actually intended to run &quot;schools&quot; they would not permit enrollment of students operating much below grade level.  If you are running a failure factory you never care how far below grade a new 8th or 9th grader is. Which is the current policy. I wish it would change.

Students below grade level should be barred from real schools and referred to remediation programs or to alternative schools for life skills &amp; basic skills. These students would (perhaps) not be on a graduation track but rather a job skills track and there&#039;d be no apologies for this. If they caught up through summer school and extra work &amp; retesting they could rejoin their regular cohort.

OUSD&#039;s unwillingness to do this is why no one trusts their &quot;education&quot;. And we can talk about Atlanta and DC schools the same way. Their school administrations obviously thought they could just cheat forever and people would be fooled by the too-good-to-be-true test scores.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harold:  If OUSD actually intended to run &#8220;schools&#8221; they would not permit enrollment of students operating much below grade level.  If you are running a failure factory you never care how far below grade a new 8th or 9th grader is. Which is the current policy. I wish it would change.</p>
<p>Students below grade level should be barred from real schools and referred to remediation programs or to alternative schools for life skills &amp; basic skills. These students would (perhaps) not be on a graduation track but rather a job skills track and there&#8217;d be no apologies for this. If they caught up through summer school and extra work &amp; retesting they could rejoin their regular cohort.</p>
<p>OUSD&#8217;s unwillingness to do this is why no one trusts their &#8220;education&#8221;. And we can talk about Atlanta and DC schools the same way. Their school administrations obviously thought they could just cheat forever and people would be fooled by the too-good-to-be-true test scores.</p>
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