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	<title>Comments on: Does school relocation = closure?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/</link>
	<description>Katy Murphy&#039;s blog on Oakland schools</description>
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		<title>By: Sepee</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40434</link>
		<dc:creator>Sepee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 16:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40434</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As far as closing schools, as part of any process, I appreciate the reminder that it is indeed sad and painful.  I remember when Peralta was closed after arsonists set it on fire 5 1/2 years ago.  We all moved and set up shop at the campus at Webster and 45th in Temescal, which had recently closed its doors as Carter Middle School.  Over the course of 3-5 days, the Peralta community transformed that campus from cobwebs and dust into a vibrant, relatively beautiful, functioning school-site.  
 
I kid you not... it was a matter of days. Sad as the situation was, it illustrated something very important... 
 
These successful school sites and campuses grow from a community of dedicated, hard-working people, well-directed by passionate, experienced and visionary staff and leadership.  We&#039;ve all experienced this in one way or another -- the PEOPLE at the school make the school.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as closing schools, as part of any process, I appreciate the reminder that it is indeed sad and painful.  I remember when Peralta was closed after arsonists set it on fire 5 1/2 years ago.  We all moved and set up shop at the campus at Webster and 45th in Temescal, which had recently closed its doors as Carter Middle School.  Over the course of 3-5 days, the Peralta community transformed that campus from cobwebs and dust into a vibrant, relatively beautiful, functioning school-site.  </p>
<p>I kid you not&#8230; it was a matter of days. Sad as the situation was, it illustrated something very important&#8230; </p>
<p>These successful school sites and campuses grow from a community of dedicated, hard-working people, well-directed by passionate, experienced and visionary staff and leadership.  We&#8217;ve all experienced this in one way or another &#8212; the PEOPLE at the school make the school.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40431</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 14:03:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40431</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How do you think the expansion could happen, Trish?  Both Kaiser and Burkhalter have fairly large asphalt playgrounds.  More portables?  I can&#039;t imagine them cramming too many more kids into the classrooms at Kaiser.  Burkhalter seems to have a fairly large building, but maybe that&#039;s just an optical illusion.

At any rate, the announcement is good news...even if it&#039;s only a stay of execution.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you think the expansion could happen, Trish?  Both Kaiser and Burkhalter have fairly large asphalt playgrounds.  More portables?  I can&#8217;t imagine them cramming too many more kids into the classrooms at Kaiser.  Burkhalter seems to have a fairly large building, but maybe that&#8217;s just an optical illusion.</p>
<p>At any rate, the announcement is good news&#8230;even if it&#8217;s only a stay of execution.</p>
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		<title>By: Fletch</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40419</link>
		<dc:creator>Fletch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 06:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40419</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Livegreen -

As I mentioned, I don&#039;t view API scores as the end-all be-all of education measurement. I&#039;m sure many here agree with that.

As I also mentioned, I think the issue with Thornhill is not the here-and-now, but the fear that somehow OUSD will act to mess up what&#039;s working well there. I never said I thought Thornhill was a bad school at present.

The closest I think you can get to a &quot;best&quot; way to evaluate schools is how the kids do later in terms of college admissions. I do not know these numbers for Thornhill vs. Orinda and Piedmont. Do you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Livegreen -</p>
<p>As I mentioned, I don&#8217;t view API scores as the end-all be-all of education measurement. I&#8217;m sure many here agree with that.</p>
<p>As I also mentioned, I think the issue with Thornhill is not the here-and-now, but the fear that somehow OUSD will act to mess up what&#8217;s working well there. I never said I thought Thornhill was a bad school at present.</p>
<p>The closest I think you can get to a &#8220;best&#8221; way to evaluate schools is how the kids do later in terms of college admissions. I do not know these numbers for Thornhill vs. Orinda and Piedmont. Do you?</p>
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		<title>By: Livegreen</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40415</link>
		<dc:creator>Livegreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Sep 2011 03:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40415</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Proven excellent is Thornhill has API&#039;s equal to or better than averages in Piedmont or Orinda. Hillcrest and others too...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Proven excellent is Thornhill has API&#8217;s equal to or better than averages in Piedmont or Orinda. Hillcrest and others too&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Fletch</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40409</link>
		<dc:creator>Fletch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 23:56:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40409</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Livegreen -

I wish life were simplistic enough for me to say things like &quot;a school was PROVEN excellent.&quot;  I just don&#039;t think life works that way.

Fair point that I hijacked the thread -- though, people could just choose not to respond if it&#039;s that irritating.

Anyway, it sounds like you guys are all earnestly trying to make the best of a bad situation. Good luck with that. As you knew would happen, I&#039;ll be keeping my kids in private school.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Livegreen -</p>
<p>I wish life were simplistic enough for me to say things like &#8220;a school was PROVEN excellent.&#8221;  I just don&#8217;t think life works that way.</p>
<p>Fair point that I hijacked the thread &#8212; though, people could just choose not to respond if it&#8217;s that irritating.</p>
<p>Anyway, it sounds like you guys are all earnestly trying to make the best of a bad situation. Good luck with that. As you knew would happen, I&#8217;ll be keeping my kids in private school.</p>
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		<title>By: Trish Gorham</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40397</link>
		<dc:creator>Trish Gorham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I woud like to thank all who expressed support for Kaiser and Burckhalter. I hope we both are given full support from the district to expand our successful programs to more Oakland students.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I woud like to thank all who expressed support for Kaiser and Burckhalter. I hope we both are given full support from the district to expand our successful programs to more Oakland students.</p>
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		<title>By: livegreen</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40396</link>
		<dc:creator>livegreen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 19:43:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40396</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fletch, Your comments have something to do with OUSD but not the &quot;school relocation&quot; topic at hand.  You said earlier &quot;Not to hijack this thread&quot;...and then you did.

When others are posting both the ins-and-outs (all sides) of hard work going into both their schools &amp; the District you repeatedly post misleading, ignorant and false statements to show how bad they are (including some PROVEN excellent OUSD schools).  When you&#039;re taken to task and confronted with the facts you conveniently ignore them and answer glibly that you&#039;re being censored.

You are, by design or not, an internet Troll.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fletch, Your comments have something to do with OUSD but not the &#8220;school relocation&#8221; topic at hand.  You said earlier &#8220;Not to hijack this thread&#8221;&#8230;and then you did.</p>
<p>When others are posting both the ins-and-outs (all sides) of hard work going into both their schools &amp; the District you repeatedly post misleading, ignorant and false statements to show how bad they are (including some PROVEN excellent OUSD schools).  When you&#8217;re taken to task and confronted with the facts you conveniently ignore them and answer glibly that you&#8217;re being censored.</p>
<p>You are, by design or not, an internet Troll.</p>
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		<title>By: Another Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40380</link>
		<dc:creator>Another Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 07:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40380</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fletch - Piedmont is a separate city from Oakland (incorporated in 1907)and has a separate school district. A school district is not required to take inter-district transfers - you might as well as why Orinda/Acalanes HS District (another district that is next to Oakland) are not required to take inter-district transfers.

About Thornhill - if you look at the  LiveGo documents that you referenced earlier, 90% of the students that live in the neighborhood go to the school (this is not broken down by grade level. The two largest groups of outside students come from Montclair and Joaquin Miller. If you read the document that you referenced, very few students from East Oakland go to Thornhill; would you suggest that the document is inaccurate?

Hillcrest has 89% neighborhood students - outside students mostly come from Chabot and Montera Middle.

Also, how do you know there are large numbers of students at Thornhill from out of the area?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fletch &#8211; Piedmont is a separate city from Oakland (incorporated in 1907)and has a separate school district. A school district is not required to take inter-district transfers &#8211; you might as well as why Orinda/Acalanes HS District (another district that is next to Oakland) are not required to take inter-district transfers.</p>
<p>About Thornhill &#8211; if you look at the  LiveGo documents that you referenced earlier, 90% of the students that live in the neighborhood go to the school (this is not broken down by grade level. The two largest groups of outside students come from Montclair and Joaquin Miller. If you read the document that you referenced, very few students from East Oakland go to Thornhill; would you suggest that the document is inaccurate?</p>
<p>Hillcrest has 89% neighborhood students &#8211; outside students mostly come from Chabot and Montera Middle.</p>
<p>Also, how do you know there are large numbers of students at Thornhill from out of the area?</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40377</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 06:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40377</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Actually Hills Mom,  Piedmont is getting a lot of pressure from the state to accept out of dstrict transfers of students from under-performing schools. There is a bit of under enrollment there too and they were going to consider taking that have grandparents in Piedmont, but now they have to take kids from neighboring communities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually Hills Mom,  Piedmont is getting a lot of pressure from the state to accept out of dstrict transfers of students from under-performing schools. There is a bit of under enrollment there too and they were going to consider taking that have grandparents in Piedmont, but now they have to take kids from neighboring communities.</p>
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		<title>By: Hills Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/2011/09/20/does-school-relocation-closure/comment-page-2/#comment-40373</link>
		<dc:creator>Hills Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Sep 2011 05:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.ibabuzz.com/education/?p=13317#comment-40373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Fletch, are you serious?  Who do you propose should &quot;make&quot; Piedmont do this?  The federal government?  The state of California?  I&#039;m trying to take you seriously but you are not making it easy.  Neither the federal government or the state will force districts to take students from outside their district when they don&#039;t  force districts to accommodate families&#039; transfer requests *within* their districts.  Do you know anyone who has been through the OUSD options process?  There are SO many people who get their requests denied because demand exceeded supply at the schools they chose and are assigned their neighborhood school.  

If you are so curious about Thornhill then ask the district for data on the # of seats available per grade, # of requests from the neighborhood, # of requests from outside the neighborhood and final enrollment numbers from both inside and outside the neighborhood.  Given that neighborhood demand in the hills schools has increased dramatically in the last five years I would predict that the ratio of neighborhood to non-neighborhood kids is changing with each passing kindergarten cohort, with the share of neighborhood kids increasing among kindergartners.  As someone mentioned above, OUSD has a sibling priority policy in place so yes, families from out of the Thornhill neighborhood who got in when there was space at Thornhill will have priority over neighborhood kids but I predict that Thornhill&#039;s ratio (as well as other hills schools) will eventually look like Hillcest&#039;s ratio as long as neighborhood demand stays strong.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fletch, are you serious?  Who do you propose should &#8220;make&#8221; Piedmont do this?  The federal government?  The state of California?  I&#8217;m trying to take you seriously but you are not making it easy.  Neither the federal government or the state will force districts to take students from outside their district when they don&#8217;t  force districts to accommodate families&#8217; transfer requests *within* their districts.  Do you know anyone who has been through the OUSD options process?  There are SO many people who get their requests denied because demand exceeded supply at the schools they chose and are assigned their neighborhood school.  </p>
<p>If you are so curious about Thornhill then ask the district for data on the # of seats available per grade, # of requests from the neighborhood, # of requests from outside the neighborhood and final enrollment numbers from both inside and outside the neighborhood.  Given that neighborhood demand in the hills schools has increased dramatically in the last five years I would predict that the ratio of neighborhood to non-neighborhood kids is changing with each passing kindergarten cohort, with the share of neighborhood kids increasing among kindergartners.  As someone mentioned above, OUSD has a sibling priority policy in place so yes, families from out of the Thornhill neighborhood who got in when there was space at Thornhill will have priority over neighborhood kids but I predict that Thornhill&#8217;s ratio (as well as other hills schools) will eventually look like Hillcest&#8217;s ratio as long as neighborhood demand stays strong.</p>
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