Moss on Media Day
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Tuesday, January 29th, 2008 at 2:15 pm in Oakland Raiders.
Caught some of Randy Moss speaking about his time with the Raiders Tuesday courtesy of NFL Network.
It reminded me of the time when I asked him about why he seemed to be dropping so many passes, and he responded it was because he wasn’t happy and was in a bad mood.
“Things weren’t really going like I expected them to go, both as an individual and collectively as a team,” Moss said. “People in that organization had high expectations. I got traded there, we had Derrick Burgess, Warren Sapp, so you had a lot of guys that had names . . . I think a lot of things got in the way where football wasn’t really the main priority around there any more.”
No excuse for Moss going in the tank because he was unhappy. None. Not as the highest paid player on the roster, one who was laughably called a “captain” by Art Shell.
But the end of that answer is remarkable when you consider who he is talking about. When Moss says organization, he is talking about Al Davis. Davis is the organization. He is the lone owner in the NFL _ hell, in professional sports _ who was once a coach. He is one of the pioneers of the game, a Hall of Famer.
And here is this huge talent, the kind of player Davis salivates over, saying football wasn’t the main priority with the Raiders. It used to be the only priority.
Misunderstood stars thrived with the Raiders because all they had to worry about was football instead of the layers of miscommunication and confusion which currently emanates from Harbor Bay Parkway.
“Things started getting in the way with coaches and play-calling and stuff like that,” Moss said. “The team-concept was sort of screwed up in Oakland, and really not knowing, I would ever get on this stage, I had to stay positive.”
Moss was in no way “positive” in Oakland, but it has to gall Davis that another environment was more suitable than his own to bringing the best out of football’s most explosive receiver.
Fish to Atlanta
According to the Atlanta Falcons Web site, Jeff Fish was hired as the strength and conditioning coach on the staff of Mike Smith.
Fish has been the Raiders strength and conditioning coach for the past four seasons. Replacing him means they might need another training camp arm. Fish throws a nicer practice pass than some Raiders quarterbacks.
Williams on board
According to the NFLPA logs, Sam Williams is under contract to the Raiders for 2008 for $700,000. He was originally scheduled for unrestricted free agency.
No transactions have been announced by the club since the end of the season. Adimchobe Echemandu has been in the books for a $605,000 salary for a couple of weeks now and it hasn’t been acknowledged by the club.
According to the Raiders Web site, Fish is still the strength and conditioning coach.
[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]
January 29th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Kiffin is a prostitute.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
First! …Sorry..
January 29th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
In that case,
FIRE KIFFIN = a “John” who wants his $$ back.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Moss is the prostitute!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Its so sad to here Moss talk the truth…
January 29th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
Its so sad to hear Moss talk the truth…
January 29th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Acey40deuce…
Hey Matey its allright =) I can take it, if i couldn’t I shouldn’t be a Raider fan… =)
January 29th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I hate big Al as much as anyone, but can he really be the sole reason for all of this confusion and miscommunication? For instance, the website saying Fish is still the S&C coach. Is AL in the webmaster’s office yelling “leave’um in theyah” I know he’s a control freak, but it just seems that even the most basic forms of business practice in the most tedious of tasks seem to be chaotic.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Anyone can play well when they are succeeding. The sign of a true professional is how he performs in the face of adversity. Moss wilted like a little girl as soon as things didn’t go his way.
Tim Brown is a perfect example. No matter the Raiders record that guy was putting it on the line every week. Moss is a spoiled brat that cried in the corner because it wasn’t recess yet.
I honestly despise that man and I would have no problem giving him a piece of my mind if I ever met him in person.
Can you imagine you’re at work and your boss comes over to you and says “Hey, why so many mistakes lately?” If you responded with “When I’m not happy I make mistakes.” Your boss would say “Well then don’t let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out”. Do your damn job and contribute to the success. If you’re not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
VaRaider…
Yup. Al thrives in Chaos – I think thats why hw isn’t dead already, because a dead bed can be chaotic, so everytime he almost dies, he gets stronger…
January 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Did anyone ask Moss whether he thought it was probowl caliber and professional to not put enough effort into a game to run his routes and make full effort? Sometimes the media are total pussies.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
At last some positive news: Jeff Fish is gone. Fish must take some responsibility for the Raiders a) getting continually pushed off the ball and b) the Raiders always tiring in the 4th Quarter.
One underperforming coach gone. Lets hope this is a sign that normality is returning.
I suspect and hope that the Raiders organisation has been shocked and shaken by the Nation’s response to Kiffingate. Davis might not care very much, but Trask and the other members of the coven might have thinner skins.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
Wow.
I guess that answers the question AD reportedly asked himself rhetorically on the elevator in Lambeau (according to Nancy Gay).
I wonder if Randy was one of the “former employees” Monte Poole spoke with for his column the other day.
Jerry, this is at least the 3nd time you’ve written about the “Organization” in response to a comment. The first time was when Kiffin was talking about his conversation with Moss, right?
We keep hearing how the way the Moss trade was handled is one of the reasons for the tension between Davis and Kiffin. This quote seems to vindicate Kiffin a little bit, doesn’t it?
There still seems to be things that are “fishy” around here.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
I could care less about what moss has to say.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
The irony in Al’s anger over the Moss trade is that Davis is upset that other people convinced him to trade Moss for a 4th round pick but it was Al Davis himself the reason why Moss wanted to leave in the first place.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
A rolling stone gathers no Moss.
Move along, nothing to see here…
January 29th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Scottish Raider…
exactly… it’s tough to run a franchise when your fanbase are saying you’re wrong…
Amy Trask, John Madden, Jerry Jones and Bilichick are the only people right now Al would ever listen to. So let’s hope just one of them grabbed the phone and said; “Yo Al cut it out, Kiffin is a gem, he’s a keeper, why don’t you twp make a compromise”
January 29th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
29 January 2008
Dear Raider Nation,
I just wanted to say how much I personally learned from Randy Moss in his tenure here in Oakland. Randy went out of his way to personally show me how NOT to practice, how to give up on my routes, how to make others look bad, and how to be a general pain in the ass. As Randy would say, “Only by learning from the best at these things, can you be the best at it”.
Your Friend,
Jerry Porter
January 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
LMN,
Lets hope Al picks up the phone with Jerry Jones and talks about trading his two first rounders to us.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
“Things weren’t really going like I expected them to go, both as an individual and collectively as a team,” Moss said.
When the going gets tuff the Moss quits on a route.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Davis is not the reason for Moss leaving Oakland. Tom Walsh sounds more like it….
January 29th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
RaiderDogg…I agree with you on that 100%….The company really isn’t doing that well at the moment so why should I try harder and do what you pay me millions to do.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Randy Moss is a disgrace hes a two faced mo fo he gave no effort just wanted to get paid he saw coming to Oakland as a free paycheck and a vacation, he plays hard for New England because he knows dam well they wont put up with any of his crap they will ship him off in a heart beat. The raiders need to learn to manage their players and coaches better in order to be serious contenders again! Only reason the Gruden era was a good one was because he made the players and coaches work hard and didnt let crap like randy moss and porter happen!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Many of us in this life have to bear our own Sysephean (sp?) tasks which offer not much in the way of reward (let alone millions of bucks). We perform them anyway. C’est la vie.
Lao Tzu wrote that the superior man pays as much attention at the end of a task as he does at the beginning. I have grappled with that myself. But, I don’t lay blame for my lack of effort on anyone else. Randy and his way are disgusting.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Rdrs4life Says:
Randy Moss is a disgrace hes a two faced mo fo
—I can’t agree more but the worst 2 faced Mo Fos are the refs that called him for pushing off as a Raider, not calling him now!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
RaiderDogg, while I agree with you 100%, that’s sort of beside the point. Randy Moss is a quitter. You know that, I know that, anyone can see that.
Why doesn’t Mr. Davis see that?
Did he see something different than everyone else? Or are the reports of him complaining about trading Moss inaccurate?
January 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Oakglenn, but Porter will NEVER have the type of season Moss is having! I do agree with JohnS that Moss’ comments is telling Crazy Al that he’s meddling and backstabbing.
I think Fish improved the speed of the defense, but not the strength. I’m sure our next guy will emphasize getting bulkier, but hopefully retain quickness and agility.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Im really hopping that the Giants will defeat the patriots just because randy moss is there and would love for him to loose!!! i seriously HATE randy moss hes a piece of shit!!! Im a strong beliver in Karma what goes aroung comes around 10xs worse! Karma is a mutha!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Actually the trade to bring Moss in here was a mistake by Davis in that he thought Moss would come here and be a leader on the team. That’s one thing about Moss, he isn’t a leader. In Minnesota I’ve watched him make fun of Culpepper over his leadership role as a QB. In NE, the Idiots have Bellichik and Brady. They don’t need Moss to lead. They have proven leaders. It’s a perfect situation for Moss. Eff him. To me he’s worth a 4th rounder.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
I will preface this statement with this one: I am not a Kiffin apologist or a Davis apologist I am a Raider fan.
That being said I honestly think that Kiffin jumped the gun and overstepped his bounds by trying to fire Ryan. It would be one thing if he had coached the Raiders to a 12-4 season but in reality Lane Kiffin is a 4-12 coach. Period.
Although the team did show signs of serious improvement under Kiffins watch, we all know that the bottom line is Wins and Losses. If Kiffin had guided this team to a better record Davis may have been more willing to give him that kind of autonomy. But since his results left a lot to be desired Al Davis didn’t think that Kiffin was qualified to make those kind of decisions on his own, at least without proposing it to Al and convincing him that it was a good idea.
What if you owned a 7-11. You hire this new kid who has never managed any store at any level but he seems sharp and comes highly recommended. After a year on the job many of the new manager’s ideas didn’t come to fruition and in fact business was still pretty bad. The this new manager decides to fire some key employees and do away with Slurpees without even discussing it with you, the owner. Even if it was a good idea you would be pissed too as the owner, that this new manager, that has done very little results wise to show a turn around, has decided to take it upon himself to make crucial decisions including firing people.
Kiffin should have handled it a different way. He assumed waaaay too much. I bet if he had gone to Davis with a good argument and facts to back it up he may have gotten what he wanted in a new DC. But because he assumed he made an a$$ out of most of us!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
JohnS -
I just think Al didn’t realize that Moss would quit on him. All he saw was all world talent. Al has always been one to look the other way when it comes to character flaws in stars. I just don’t think that he realized he had a quitter on his hands.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Oakglenn is right, Moss is not a leader.
Nice post OG!
January 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
RaiderDogg:
I often agree with your posts, but I have to ask: what evidence (and i mean evidence) have we seen that shows that Kiffin actually tried to fire Ryan? (I’m not actually sure what “trying to fire Ryan” means in this context.) After the sort of week we’ve all had on here, it seems to me that we still don’t know if anything at all happened in raiderland.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
[...] Jerry McDonald – NFL Writer wrote a fantastic post today on “Moss on Media Day”Here’s ONLY a quick extractCaught some of Randy Moss speaking about his time with the Raiders Tuesday courtesy of NFL Network. It reminded me of the time when I asked him about why he seemed to be dropping so many passes, and he responded it was because he wasn’t … [...]
January 29th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Darkhorse – Walsh was gone by then and Moss has said publicly that he had no problem with the idea of playing for Kiffin. Itis all on Al – period.
By the way if coaches and free agents shun Oakland it will be for the same reason – Al.
You can’t both credit Al for all things good and absove him of any responsibility for all things bad in Raiderland.
Mike Shanny
Norv Turner
Jon Gruden
Guys who the Raiders were better off without who have more SB rings since 1990 and playoff appearances since 2003 than the entire “organization” known as Al.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
RaiderDogg is right, Moss & ryan should be working at a 7-11.
January 29th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
We’re flying blind here, what do we do…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntw7G7enxEk
January 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Tim Brown was a real Hall Of Fame WR, he was able to deal with Al Davis and be a great WR.
Moss is a baby who has to be happy to catch a football, even then he still beats women.
You do the math.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
The bottom line is that canning Rob Ryan would have been the right move. 99.9% of Raider fans, who know anything about football, wanted Ryan out.
He has been given high draft picks, free agents like Burgess and Sapp, and four full seasons to try and build a defense and this is what we get…one of the weakest units in the NFL.
For some reason Al Davis likes that Loser, and the Raiders are going to pay big time for that over the next few seasons. Double digit losses will continue because of Al’s loyalty to the Mullet. Thanks Al!
January 29th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
When Moss goes into the HOF ahead of Cliff Branch it will be a sign of how pathetic the NFL has become.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Fender52 -
The statements I made are me reading between the lines based on everything that has been reported.
I honestly don’t know what really went down, this just made the most sense to me. I doubt that a resignation letter was drafted but who knows. I guess what I am trying to say is that my statements were an educated guess and nothing more. I could be completely wrong about the whole thing.
Hopefully we will know one way or the other, otherwise we as fans are left to our own assumptions.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Shoot Dogg,
Sometimes Slurpees got it comin’!
That’s all I’m sayin’…
January 29th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
RDogg:
Point taken. I think I agree with you: I suspect Kiffin did at least try to talk Davis into letting Ryan go. And most of us would have agreed with that approach (not sure why Al didn’t). But I doubt Kiffin was dumb enough to try to fire Ryan directly himself without ever having spoken to Davis and obtained his approval. Kiffin seems too savy to make that kind of mistake. Even for a rookie.
And maybe Al talked Kiffin out of firing Ryan, or said: come back with a plan for 2008 which includes Ryan in your plans. Who knows.
Sadly, I bet we never really get the full story (if there even is a “full story”). Maybe all there is/was and will be is that Kiffin never tried to fire Ryan at all, and this was all a load of bull.
wouldnt’ that be hilarious!
January 29th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
ONCE
That’s how many times the Unibomber answered questions about CameraGate and the Patsies.
After Arkansas and the other almost daily rumors you have to figure Kiff and the Raiders are in “why bother” mode. Imagine you were at your job and the phone rang every twenty minutes and someone asked:
Did you really go on monster.com last week?
Riiing
Hey, did you check out the girl at the supermarket and does your wife know?
Riiing
Het, Randy the gardner you fired has his own landscaping company. What’d you think of that?
and so on…
I hope Kiff is watching EVERY PLAY from last year, every snap Haynesworth played, every snap Ellis, Long and Dorsey played and so on to try to make this team better. Forget Adam S and Chris M and their bs. Just coach.
Besides, if they quash the rumors what will the bloggers have to talk about until the combine?
January 29th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Right on Coach on Wheels!
This is getting way too serious.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I tell you guys what, for years Ive heard about how al davis is causing trouble for the raiders, but now after this media fiasco how many of these stories can be believed. The media can make a mountain out of a mole hill so how many of those previous stories can be believed? You always here about a source within the organization is where the journalists get the info, and never, hardly ever does it pan out and i have been following the raiders since 1965 so I have been on many of these media trips before. So now when this kind of crap comes around I enjoy reading it, but I also know its all bs.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Well to the idiot that said first. If you are going to play that dumb game make sure you is first lol.
Helll I could say i am number 35 but I type slow and by the time i am done there maybe a few posts a head of me. Ok enough about that.
anyway yes it is sad that Randy Moss was speaking the truth on the other hand like RaiderDogg and several others have said since he was shipped out a true pro would have shut his trap and gone out and played ball to the best of his ability.
At the end of the year he would have then gone to Davis and said Al you got to fix this that and the other thing or ship if you cant or dont want to do it ship me out of here because i aint going to pla[y under these conditions.
That would have been understandabel but also kept behind closed doors where it should have been.
For all of his faults you have to admit Davis at least to some extent will listen to his star players except for if they go about it the right way or maybe i am wrong and that was only Tim Brown. They did not always like each other but they did seem to respect each other and there were a few lean years there before their breif revial under Gruden Tim Brown was the only reason i felt the need to watch the team living in the Bay Area it was hard to be a raider fan back in thoes days when they were in LA and everything was Niners Niners NIners.
Whatever none of that matters. I just believe that if a player that earns Al’s respect for how he does things also has his ear. It really is too bad Moss could not have been that kind of player if he had been he would still be la raider. Anybody who thinks he was going to do what he did in NE this year in Oakland with the current state of things in the organzation is delusional though even more then Al
Now my question is if the raiders braught back Ech why not announce this officially. This is a kind of big thing certrainly if true your HB”s next year are Ech Bush and Fargas if he resigns Jordan will be gone by June and probably Rodes too. Ech aint a star but I think if they dont fu maybe i cant use that word on here sorry. If they keep the zone blocking scheme he will be good enough tell it is determined rather or not Bush is the man of tomorrow in the backfield.
As for Sam williams not shocked he could be functional if the team gets its act togeather on deffence.
BTW. RaiderDogg for now I decided to stick with ??? kind of a man of mystery lol maybe I should go with austin Powers al though i never liked thoes movies and i find Mike Myers annoying. LOL
January 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
How did the organization become so out of touch with how to operate an NFL team properly??
Oh yeah, Al Davis is in charge. Things will not improve until Al is a goner.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
See told you guys i type slow too me so long to type i fell from 35 to 47 with my privious posts. LOL
January 29th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
There you go ???
35 to 47 is an awesome name!
January 29th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
of course “spell check” might be appropriate too!
January 29th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
You answered your own question -
“When the Raiders brought back Eche why didn’t they announce it…?”
“Eche ain’t a star”
As exciting as it is to see a guy run over the Quinten Moses and Darnell Bing’s of the NFL during preseason, signing a 4th string RB isn’t press release worthy. At least Williams was a starter at one point but resigning a now back-up LB isn’t big news.
Remember, the team doesn’t revolve around the 50 fans who blog. Most fans get their off-season news in the sports page or on tv. The Sapp retirement was barely a blip so Eche? Puhleeese.
There will be no discussion as to Eche starting if Jordan and Fargas go and Rhodes is hit by a bus and Bush slips on his wife’s kitchen knife three times. Eche will have to try to make the team – NEXT AUGUST. Patience grasshopper.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
You know, it’s only Tuesday, and who knows how all the stuff from last week will actually shake out this week. But if you were to imagine no stories by Shefter, and ESPN, etc, all of this would have been handled pretty well by the Organization and the persons involved. They kept it in house, they didn’t fight it out directly in the media (maybe they let a few things leak), etc. but overall, without the “new stories,” this would have been a terribly quiet and boring week. and Lofton’s interview would have been the only thing happening, and not that surprising at that.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
What do you guys think of either Houston, Arizona or TB for trade partners. These are all teams that are spotted for RB in the first.
Any of these teams move up for McFadden?
Al could have deals in place so that if he makes it to us then it’s just a matter of a phone call.
The Jets could be two fold in that they need help on D as well as a long term RB.
Anything to get more picks, I say.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
We have been doing a lot of speculating lately. One thing we dont have to speculate on is the fact that Moss is a quitter. That said, I am suprised some people here want to blame Al.
Any team other NE or maybe GB and Moss keeps going down the tubes.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Jerry was certainly right when he said that there was no excuse for Randy Moss and his behavior while at Oakland. He ruined his name forever regardless of what he accomplishes from here on out. He quit at different times with the Vikings and he completely gave up on the Raiders. I’ve never seen anything so obscene as Randy Moss giving up on plays and just quitting mid-route. He should be thrown out of the N.F.L., forced to pay back his salary, sued for breach of contract, and kicked out of the league.
He just whines about the politics with the Raiders. What organization doesn’t have politics? Everyone else came to play. Who cares what that loser thinks?
January 29th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Fender – Exactly!
If NFLN, ESPN and PFT weren’t desperate for viewers, 995 of this stuff we obsess over on this blog will be nothing by the Draft, let alone opening day when the majority of fans come out of hibernation.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Did i mention Randy moss is a piece of shit?
I hope he falls on a nife in his kitchen too coach on wheels LOL.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Randy Moss cheated the Raiders and the fans plain and simple. He’s nothing more than a spoiled little kid in a man’s body. Easy to shine, Randy when you’re 18-0. Real players stay focused when things are rough and where things need to be worked through over time. You’re a fake and a fraud and you fell ass-backwards into a once in a lifetime deal with New England. I for one will never forgive the guy for quitting on the team while I watched him do it in person with a $75 ticket to the game in my wallet witg what was left of my money for the day.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Santika -
The big issue is if Dallas trades to #1 with Miami like they are supposedly trying. They want McF.
If this happens it changes things. There are basically four stud linemen Dorsey, Long, Long, and Ellis. With picks 3-5 (coin toss) we are guaranteed one of them if Dallas grabs MacF.
If Dallas can’t get Miami’s pick and we have a shot at MacF at 3-5, we could tradefor Dallas’ two 1st round picks and a player or additional pick.
Dallas is offering Miami their 2 1st and Marion Barber.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Jerry thanks for your great work this is the best place for raider fans. this is better than going to raiderfans.net and listening to all the cry babies over there and site owner trying to rip people off for his DUH INSIDER INFORMATION. This dude post some of the most ridiculous shyt around. of course if I was 8 yrs old Id fit right in.
January 29th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
I don’t have anything good to say about Moss, but that IS a damming statement.
http://mvn.com/nfl-raiders/
January 29th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
??? -
Your post name should be:
Danger is my Middle Name
OK maybe thats too long.
Nice post by the way.
Fender52 -
I honestly think that Kiffin is cocky enough to assume that he could make any moves that he wished. He comes off like a cocky little dude.
On a side note do you have a ‘52 strat or what?
Saintkaufman -
I’m still waiting for 7-11 to get a clue and sell cocktail Slurpees!
January 29th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
patrick your blog has a much charisma as a funeral. give it time youll get better
January 29th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Did anyone ask Moss about the restraining order his girlfriend just got against him?
January 29th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I do hope that Lames Lofton is added to the staff. I have always had a lot of admiration of his ethic. Would he be an effective coach for the Raiders? Remains to be seen yes, but it is obvious that the present crop of WR’s need help. Whatever JR franchise needs.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
I dont think anyone asked him about that Kirk media is too busy talking about the al davis lane kiffin fued to ask randy moss about his women beating hobby.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Maybe there was something missing from what Moss said, but based on the paraphrasing here I would not interpret it that it was about Al Davis. When I read it, I immediately thought he was talking about the players on the team. Of course, the coaches have a responsibility to rectify a situation where players have other priorities than football. Indirectly Al Davis is responsible but I think there is plenty of people in the organization to whom to spread the blame. I always thought the problems since 2002 were because the Raiders were left with a bad cap situation and all the outstanding players had retired or were at the end of their careers. The players that were left that had talent were very ME FIRST type players, and Moss obviously fits that persona.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
RDogg: you might be right, who knows. maybe he was cocky enough to do that. if he did, i presume the boss gave him a bit of a sit down (or perhaps a letter ?) But either way, Kiffin being a bit cocky beats Norv’s wussiness, if you ask me. Probably only way for 32 yr old to get the respect he needs to earn and keep from the players. I’ll take cocky heading in the right direction than wussy and losing.
I also think it’s what allows him to call the players out for poor or good play. he takes responsibility too. Maybe some players want that kept “inside,” but guess what, they play on television, in front of the world and get paid with our dollars. so probably might as well tell us how folks are doing or not.
and maybe if someone had called out Moss in 05 or 06, he’d have responded a little better….
And I don’t have a 52 strat, but would love to own one.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
What do yo expect Moss to say. The truth would have been. I was shocked when the Vikings cut me loose. I never wanted to play on the west coast but I am a whore and went after the money. Once I got there and saw that the team was rebuilding and things really were not going my way I wanted out. So I reverted to my character and turned into the cry baby bitch that I am. Anytime things do not go my way or get rough I turn into the coward that I am, you know I said it before “I play when I want to”
January 29th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Moss is a scum bag always has been always will be .
January 29th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
COW,
Just a FYI, we are already guaranteed the 3rd or 4th pick.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I have to decide which game to watch!?
CapitalOne.Bowl.Michigan@Florida or Gator.Bowl.TexasTech@Virginia
January 29th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Patrick said……
I don’t have anything good to say about Moss, but that IS a damming statement.
I would not put any stock into anything he said.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
This team is driving me nuts. I’m not even sure I want to be on the front end of breaking news anymore. Maybe it’s better to wait until franchise moves are actually official? That being said, I’ll keep giving my 2 cents on what I think SHOULD be done…Is it too late to still fire Ryan??
January 29th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Hey Fire Kiffin,
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!!
Keep complaining…
January 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Jerry I have a question for you. How many other players quit because they weren’t happy. How many other players didn’t perform andn still collected their paychecks because they thought that the ‘organization’ wasn’t about football anymore.
What is this story really about Jerry are you just itching to take another shot at Mr.Davis. Then take the shot and say how you feel about things that are going on now. You don’t need a sorry ass story like this because you’re having a hard time getting a story from the ‘organization’. No matter what angle you use Mr. Davis will address the media at his own time. Simple as that.
Randy Moss vs ‘The Organization’ what a joke Jerry get serious. Ask Randy did any of ‘The Organizations’ checks bounce.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Fender52 -
I agree, I would take cocky over wussiness everyday of the week and twice on Sundays.
The reason I asked about a ‘52 Strat was because of your post name. Maybe its a ‘52 Telecaster? Or something completely different.
My dream guitar is a Gibson ‘58 Les Paul Custom re-issue. Just in case you were wondering…
January 29th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Good post BHP.
“Ask Randy did any of ‘The Organizations’ checks bounce.”
Classic.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Moss is a biatch. You need to punch women much harder so that they are afraid to go to the police. Jeez!
January 29th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Fire Kiffin is a baby, a little little baby! Fire Kiffin is a baby, a little, little, baby!
January 29th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
Moss is a great player. Half of Tom Brady’s throws to him weren’t even good throws. He was either rediculously wide open or he went up over 2 guys and caught the ball. This just proves what a pansy quitter he was when he was in Oakland. And he took Andrew Walter down with him. Now Moss is on top of the world and AW is our 4th string QB. The world just isn’t fair. Now I must masturbate. Cheers!
January 29th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
BHP, that was great.
Why can’t the toothless press ask questions like that?
January 29th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
I was just invited to a Super Bowl Party in the North Bay, Rohnert Park to be exact. It is hosted by former NFL player Honor Jackson who used to play with both the NY Giants and the NE Patriots. He doesn’t know who he is going to root for, I told him Go Giants!
Here are the Deets:
Do not miss the biggest Super Bowl Party of the year the “SUPER BALLERS BOWL BASH”. It will be the only Super Bowl Party with Super Bowl players there!!
Your ticket will include hanging out with Super Bowl Players, a great bbq, 2 complimentry soft drinks , autograph and viewing the big game on a 25 foot screen. There will also be other drinks available for purchase.
The players attending so far are – CLIFF BRANCH, JERRY ROBINSON, JOHN VELLA of the Raiders- TED POPSON of 49ers- BENNY BARNES of Cowboys- BOB LEE of Vikings and Rams- GREG KRAGEN of the Broncos.
There will also be a silent auction, prizes,contest and raffle prizes.
Contact:
Honor Jackson
Executive Director
Fence At The Top
707-584-2856
Tix are $129.99
Too rich for my blood but I thought I would let y’all know. It’s a good cause too.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
RaiderDogg, in the Lofton Interview section gave a very nice breakdown of the 2007 draft manuevers. Props for that. But there is one part that doesn’t make sense to me:
“The Raiders acquired pick #91 from the Pats for a 2007 7th rounder and 2008 3rd rounder. Many insiders think that this deal with the Pats was secretly part of the Randy Moss trade because value wise it didn’t make a lot of sense for the Pats to make this deal.”
The #91 pick would be late 3rd round in 2007, a known mediocre draft class. In exchange for that the Raiders gave back a high 3rd (roughly mid to late 60’s overall) in a deeper draft class plus a 7th in 2007. Granted, the Raiders didn’t know how high the 2008 pick would be but it’s not like the could reasonably expect it to not be in the first half. So how is that seen as favorable to the Raiders and a hidden compensation for the Moss “gift”?
It seems to me that the Pats are the masters of shafting the poor teams for future riches. They now own high picks in the 1st (Whiners) and 3rd (Raiders) round in exchanges for lower picks in the same rounds last season. Essentially they took advantage of desparate teams’ impatience to gain positional value and to move those picks to a much stronger draft class.
God I hate that team, but it’s hard to not respect their moves — at least those that aren’t clearly cheating.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
there was no such thing as a 52 telecaster or stratocaster….the original was a broadcaster.
I have a 67 telecaster
January 29th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
#81………
Is that really neccesery?
January 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
#81…
I just put my foot in my mouth.
I just realized you were responding to fire kiffin
I thought you were just trolling. My apoligies.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Compared to Moss’ desire to win, compete, to be part of a team… Hell it hurts to say this but.. Josh McCown deserves a Monument outside the Coliseum…
If only Tim Dwight had such abilities…
January 29th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Chargers right guys. We totally dumped all over McCown this season. But the dude does have some serious brass hangin low. Played hurt, played when getting boo’d, played when line could’nt block, played for the other team, etc.
If I saw him I’d shake his hand and tell him to be the best back-up he could be.
Cocktail slurpees sold from 2am to 6am would be perfect!!
January 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
The said thing is that too often those with abilities don’t develop the passion. Instead they rest on the laurels of teir God given physical gifts.
On the contrary, those that aren’t born with the freakish abilities are the ones that work the hardest to overcome. That only comes with excessive amounts of heart. That’s usually what makes the difference in getting to the NFL.
Not coincidentally, my opinion is that this is why most of the ex-players that become coaches come from the all heart category and not the super stars. You can teach work ethic and precise execution, but you can’t teach 4.2 40’s or 6′6″ – 335 lb growth.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Hater, you bring up a really, really interesting point there. Maybe having guys that want to play, want to win, want to give it there all, instead of total pieces of crap that don’t give a sh**, maybe that is a good thing. Yeah, I know, how many SuperBowls is McCown gonna start??? I know, I know. The point is any pro franchise is gonna have excellent athletes, and when those athletes see other lesser guys giving their all, then they HAVE TO. Oh, and BTW, Wes Welker, arguably Bradys 2nd most valuable target credits Tim Dwight for making him who he is today.
Andrews Mom, I thought Lane made pretty good sense in #81. Can’t argue with Lane on that one.
January 29th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
RaiderDogg…good post on #30
BHP…always good to read your words of sanity. Do you think Kiffen deserves to stay as HC if he tried to fire Ryan wiyhout selling it to AD first?
January 29th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
RaiderDogg… I gotta believe that Kiffen wants out to do something that dumb.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
OK, so K-Rock did’nt watch any Raider games in ‘05 or ‘06.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Find interesting that many of the players that finished season as starters, maybe the last 3 or 4 games, were not the same starters by September… Excluding Jamarcus of course and those who were injured…
Dude if someone takes my job away I’ll fight for it…
Now if my job was to play for the Raiders!!!!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
K rock
I am in awe. Thats great.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
92…..
I already said I was sorry
Reading comprehension is not my strong point after 420 for the first time in a week.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
My point was that Moss would not say anything to put a negative light on himself. Of course he would say it was the organization. The organization is not there to defend itself.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
Dang Andrews Mom. It’s a little early is’nt it?
I hope you put Andrew to bed already!!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
I definitely think and hope that Kiffin is the HC. He made some very serious mistakes. But he has such great potential as a HC that I’ll forego a year of winning to get him to where I think he can go. He is way ahead of a lot of HC’s scheme wise meaning he knows how to attack an opponents weakness. He just needed to go through this learning process and hopefully not screw up so bad that Mr. Davis wouldn’t retain him. The Ryan deal if accurate is bad but it’s not something that can’t be corrected and they are going about it the best way. Behind closed doors and out of the media. That allows things to heal faster. They have a real chance of coming out of this more focused and cohesive which hopfully will bode well for the coming season. We must approach FA very aggressively and have a great draft. Then this stuff will be far behind them and we’ll see from there.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
K-Rock,
It was a funny ass post, no doubt.
What I saw was a man playing with fear. He would have 5-6 more TD’s if he did’nt alligator everything in ‘06.
I kept waiting for someone to get a clean shot at him this year and watch him turn into his usual self. Did’nt happen…..yet.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
“Things weren’t really going like I expected them to go, both as an individual and collectively as a team,” Moss said. “People in that organization had high expectations. I got traded there, we had Derrick Burgess, Warren Sapp, so you had a lot of guys that had names . . . I think a lot of things got in the way where football wasn’t really the main priority around there any more.”
At least some players see things for what they really are. That doesn’t mean quit because you’re unhappy but he definately shed some light on what is wrong with this organization. There does seem to be other priorities at times. Maybe in the whole scheme of things, the priority is winning but it doesn’t come off that way. It seems that Al Davis likes to go a different path to reach his success, rather than take the most logical approach. He likes to go around instead of straight ahead. Thats just my own observation.
I don’t know if the abscence of Jeff Fish is a good thing or a bad thing. I’m sure it won’t take much to replace him considering how this team has played on Sunday’s.
Its absolute garbage that Sam Williams has been re-signed. Give me a freakin break. How much more time do you really need to see this guy? He’s going to be 37 before he has a breakout year. Move on already. I don’t mind seeing Echemandu because we definately need some competition at RB and Lamont Jordan is more than likely gone so that opens a spot.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Its six oclock here.
Little Drew ran away two years ago
Mama is mean as hell and stays on her side of the house when she isnt stuffing her face or stealing my beer.
But I am board for Al’s last run to the SB.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Im done with this lame ass organization.This is getting so old.Im now just a football fan and it fells kinda good!!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
bored not board tough words I know but you can get it.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
That’s cool Tom….Bye !
January 29th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
Peace out Tom!
I’m IN!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
I’m worried about Andrew.
His mom is wrecked!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
you know , wow!!!! ivebeen SAYING IT FOR 4 YEARS!
“give robryan a defense with allstars @ every spot & he will coach them into loosers! (looking bad)
and sure enuff there it WAS senior bowl o8 ,
a dominating,talent laden defense,
BIGER STRONGER FASTER THEN their opposition.
aNDsure enuff ROBRYAN COACHED THEM INTO LOOSERS,
IN JUST 2-1/2 QUARTERS!
NORMALLY..
W- RAIDERS TALENT IT TOOK 3-4 GAMES INTO HIS FIRST YEAR!2004 !
BUT W/ LESSSER TALENTS THEN MY RAIDERS IT HAPPENS INSIDE OF A GAME!
TO BAD HE CANT GO BACK TO PATRIOTS!!! THEY’D BE 3-13 IN A YEAR! WITH ROB RYAN THERE!!!!
SO ALL YOU ROBRYAN FAN CLUB MEMEBERS, JUST ANOTHER SHRED OF TORMENT I WILL PUT YOU THRU!!!!! HE CANT EVEN DOMINATE W/ A ROSTER FULL OF ALL STARS!!!!
ROBRYAN REALLY IS A SUBHUMAN,INEPT, HOMO, FAT P.O.S. JUST LIKE ALL HIS FANS!!!! THE SAME AS ABOVE!!! ANY DEF CORD COACHING THIS ARESENAL OF TALENT OAKLAND POSSES, GOES TOP 5 CROSS THE BOARD IN EVERY DEPT!!!
I COULD GHET THIS DEF IN TOP 5 !~~~~~BRAYTON@SDE,BURGESS@WDE,HUFF@FRESFTY,NAHMI@SCB,
FABIAN@WCB!WILLIAMS AS PASSRUSHER,HOWARD BIG BLITZER!!RITE THERE I’LL PUT
25 MORE SACKS ON THE FIRE
15 MORE INTS,
AND 18 LESSRUSH ATTS GAME ,AVG OF 80 LESS YARDS ON GROUND! VS RIADER DEF!!!
THIS SOUNDS LIKE # 1 NUMBERS TO ME SCREW THE TOP 5 RAIDER HAVE THE BEST DEFENSE IN NFL WO/ ROB RYAN!!!!!
OH P.S. “LANEY KIFFY” IS ALMOST AS BAD,HE IS SUBHUMAN, HOMO,INEPT,P.O.S.& A LIAR!!! HE JUST AINT A FAT P.O.S.LIKE YOUR ROB RYAN IS!!!!BUT GIVE HIM TIME!!
HE CANT EVEN
RECRUIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HIS OWN ” DAD ” TO COME OVER & BE HIS DEF CORD!!!
WHICH WE WILL FIND OUT SOME DAY IS PART OF THE [PROBLEM!!BETWEEN DAVIS&KIFFIN!!!
THAT IS WHY KIFFY LOOKED TO LEAVE THIS YEAR ,
KIFFYS’ GOT GALL & NOT BALLS! THATS HIS PROBLEM!!! NOT AL DAVIS OR MINE,GALL IS NOT GOOD!
GALL IS A FEMINE CHARACTERSTIC NOT MALE !!!
KIFFY LIED ABOUT HID DAD ,TO GET HIRED,
THEN WANTED TO 86 HIMSELF WHEN HE SAW THE GOING GET ROUGH!!!! OK THATSIT!!!! LANEYS’A PHONEY!!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Explain it to me….
yeah i paused by that sentence too…
but perhaps it was im ON board….
January 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Soulpatrol2…
you are a funny dude… I think i’ve never read any of your posts through…
you start without caps… and then its like you get excited, and the only way you can show that is by kicking the caps right back on…
Weird =)
January 29th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
That’s right SoulPatrol2, let it out man. Just let it go…
OK, now back to Kiffin and Ryan kickin ass in ‘08!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Kind of like Stairway to Heaven but instead of drums he’s using machine guns!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
So does that mean Williams was signed while Kiffin was at the Senior Bowl? That seems a bit odd.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Williams is a defensive player… signed while Kiffin was at the SrBw
That is not odd!
January 29th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Kiffin does not sign players. He identifies players he wants back. Mark Jackson was brought in by Kiffin to help in signing and trading, however the story is he was moved out of the personnel area at Raiders HQ. So it is anyones guess who is working on the contracts besides Amy Trask, but it is rare for a HC to get into the nitty gritty of the actual contracts.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
[...] La Milicia Negra wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by La Milicia Negra”Here’s ONLY a quick extractSoulpatrol2… you are a funny dude… I think i’ve never read any of your posts through… you start without caps… and then its like you get excited, and the only way you can show that is by kicking the caps right back on… Weird =) [...]
January 29th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
This just in:
Adam Schefter reports that Mike Williams of the completely dysfunctional Oakland Raiders has signed a one year deal with the Raiders while Lane Kiffin was out of town in Mobile, Al.
This all but cements the FACT that Kiffin will be fired in the coming minutes!
Back to you Mort….
January 29th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Come on soulpatrol2, you can’t come in here and throw down a huge cannon ball in the middle of the pool and leave, right?
How about something positive.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
who gives a rat’s patoot about williams being signed???? did he already make next season’s 53 man roster??? you sign all you need now for mini camps
get a clue people
January 29th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
This is like pulling hay out of a needle stack! Ouch!
Hey, wait a minute, can I trademark that?
January 29th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Maybe someone should show a tape of that press conference to Al Davis. Seems to me if Davis knew how Moss really felt about him, maybe Big Al’s mancrush on Randy wouldn’t be so great. Maybe Big Al would realize that, however great Moss is for the Patriots, Lane Kiffin was right that he would never be great for the Raiders. All could ever be in Oakland is an anchor to the team’s salary structure.
January 29th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
What if you don’t want Sam Williams to be apart of the mini camps because its pointless?
January 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
for those who think ryan is to blame for defensive woes…try again.
one person must take imminent responsibility for this organization’s short comings. that person is al davis.
think back in time with me…
we carried jarrod cooper for the last few games of the year even though he was shot. while i like cooper, i think kiffin could’ve most likely found some kind of fodder to try out on special teams over the last few games rather than carry him on the roster.
curious we carried 4qbs all year.
regardless of kiffin’s predilection for josh m…we still carried aw, jr, and dc on the roster. curious.
back to ryan’s defense…no blitzing, no qb pressure, just man up on the cbs. vanilla!!! pure al davis genius. ryan is a yes man. that’s why he still has a gig and al’s protection.
al must at some point in time realize (as art shell was forced to last year) that his schemes and genius have long passed him by.
i love the man…what he has done for football. but i despise what the nation has spiraled into. please al, take a clue. improvement was made under the young kiffin. maybe a stronger constructive working relationship with the young coach, rather than stubborn arrogance might have yielded the loyalty that al needs so much.
al really does want to win, but he wants all the credit as well. i am forced to at this point give the great man credit for creating and embarrassing landfill which does not bode well for attracting future free agent talent, smart and responsible draft choices (see kiff’s recommendation for drafting people who can actually tackle on defense rather than just run track), and head coaching candidates who are not freelancers, out to make a quick name for themselves before moving on somewhere else (see gruden and petrino as case studies).
i am watching and waiting, but no longer holding my breath for a rebirth of this organization. it may be a long long time coming.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
it’s pointless for the offense to practice against a moving dummy like williams?
January 29th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Yes…its pointless. Maybe the offense needs to be challenged more by players who can actually make a play. Maybe then the offense will get better because they will get reality in their face instead of a moving dummy. Dummy’s don’t tackle…players do…if these players don’t learn that right away then they will be in for a rude awakening. I know their NFL players and they should know better but tell that to our defense since they missed so many tackles last year. Maybe practicing against a poor offense in the Shell era didn’t prepare the defense enough for this last year?
January 29th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
SaintKaufman, #115 is the funniest thing I have ever read!!!!!
That’s it Soul Patrol. Let’s fry a guy over a college All Star Game. That makes sense to me.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
You have to practice like you play in the games. If it isn’t real enough in practice, these guys aren’t going to be prepared.
How are you going to learn more? Going against Ray Lewis in practice or Sam Williams? Players make you tougher and more ready when you face them everyday.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
BTW, Tom, here’s your happy little #12 Tom Brady Jersey, you asswipe.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
You’re right Dave. Moss was a huge waste of space, literally and monetarily.
I used to get so pissed when the broadcast would single him out on replays and he would just stand up when the ball was snapped, not even take a friggin step!!
If I was in Arizona right now I would make it a point to spit on Moss and punch Schefter right in the eye!
But hey, that was LAST YEAR!! Let’s move on, please.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
SoulPatrol is really starting to grow on me.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Getting Moss was the right thing to do. It symbolized one of the greatest trades of all time and Al Davis was at the head of that one. You have to give that guy credit. Nobody in their right mind would have thought that you could get so much for so less. We STOLE Randy Moss and if he had put the effort into his game, our team could have been amazing. It didn’t happen and we can be mad about it but it wasn’t a waste. It was a gamble that was worth taking. Its just unfortunate that Moss had to be coached by the likes of Turner and Shell. If you want to blame anybody, blame the coaches for being stupid and blame Al Davis for putting such coaches and great players together. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
Collins to Moss? Try fixing the offensive line if you want Deer in the Headlights Collins to get it to Moss. Moss…you’re a wonderful talent and we’re going to do wonderful things with you…creative things…unimaginable things. I want you to go deep EVERY play.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
John S – Are you hopping on the Soul Train? lol
January 29th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Hey Oakglenn,
Glad you guys showed up.
Gotta roll.
Peace Nation
January 29th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
really!??
January 29th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Saint K, i’m still laughing @ that.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Maybe thats why we went thru all those coaches. Because they were catering to the big name players instead of coaching football. Kiffin brought a different attitude into camp than what most of these guys were used of. Randy Moss quit on his teammates plain and simple. I believe Randy wanted out of Oaktown because he could get away with the stuff he did with the Vikings and now with the Pats. He is getting away with pushing off the CB’s and holding during running plays. I did get excited when the Raiders signed him and thought he would be a good addition for the team. But after what he did last year it’s hard to forgive. But like always it’s Big Als fault.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
Moss is the biggest punk in football ( Pro-punk ) and this is what I told him when I saw him one day in Walnut Creek, I didn”t have to worry about him taking a swing at me because apparently, he only hits Women.
January 29th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Mike Silva from Yahoo Sports is on KHTK acting like hes a raider insider.He said Kiffin isnt allowed to interview coaches and other BS Ya hes informed. use to be with SI>
January 29th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Anything to sound cool and on the inside what a dic!k
January 29th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Here’s the latest from Adam Schefter:
“You can put the final nail in the coffin of the Al Davis and Lane Kiffin fiasco. Kiffin will be walking away from the Raiders in the very near future.
It all comes down to a game of chicken. Literally.
Lane was seen publically disparaging his employer, the Oakland Raiders, while grocery shopping with his wife. After staring for too long at his shopping list — that list being written on paper, the very same substance that the well known resignation letter that Al Davis presented to him was on — and after a lengthy discussion with his wife, he returned the bottle of Argentinian Cabernet-Sauvignon that he selected from the shelf only to replace it with a Californian Chardonay.
My inside source heard the snippets from this spousal debate and reported that Lane was arguing to change the menu from roast beef to chicken that evening. He was then justifying a switch to a better paired white wine than the heavier, bolder red they had selected.
Normally, one would not read more into the selection of a locally produced wine, but this is not an ordinary situation. It’s very clear that this was an anti-Raiders move and one that Kiffin carefully orchestrated for all in plain sight to see as a protest of his current employment status.
You see, the Argentinian region produces some surprisingly good Cabernets, but their Chardonays are rather ordinary. Thus by altering the menu, he was able to eschew the selection of the red wine. That is a less than subtle knock against the country of Argentina.
Now Argentina loosely translated from Spanish is silver. That’s right, the same Silver that is paired with Black to make up the Raiders colors. From this we can clearly assert that this supposedly innocent shopping trip was indeed a blatant statement of non-support for the Oakland Raiders.
In this game of chicken it’s now a sure bet that Davis will have no choice but to pull the plug on his disloyal head coach. Additional sources have indicated that Denny Green prefers red wine with all his meals, further cementing the fact that he will soon be going through the formality of an interview in Oakland.”
January 29th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
L.M.F.O.A
Great post!!!
Take a bow.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I cant even type now. (L.M.F.A.O)
January 29th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
BHP…I hope the hell you are right.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Zymurge…Thank you it all makes sense now.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
lol hahahahaha!
January 29th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Ill take fish’s spot. I can only throw it 40 yards or so though.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:23 pm
RF,
make sure you work them so hard they cant tackle on sunday.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
this is in response to a message left on the other thread:
“,,al davis just needs to shut his pie hole ”
are you kidding me???
if you owned the majority share of a business, would you expect to have to “shut your pie hole”???
you think Kiffin knows more about football and winning than Al Davis???
tell me…
do you think it doesn’t eat at Al Davis what has happened to his Raiders since Robbins went Tequila Sundown on the team???
Gruden gets disloyal… and shops for another gig for the previous two years…
Callahan appears to have everything under control right up to the day before the Super Bowl…
the very next year, with practically the same team, an injured Gannon falls out of the lineup and the Raiders head south in a hurry… Callahan thinks calling his team stupid in front of family and friends (oh, and the rest of the planet) is the tie that binds…
the clubhouse revolts…
Callahan is replaced with Norv Turner… who was terminated by D Snyder just when it looked like he had it turned around… the guy has remarkable success establishing strong running games…
but not for us…
and it is so dismal… that Davis figures Art Shell, a Raider legend and a reasonably successful coach, may have taken the previous 10 years to think about if “he only had one more chance”…
hell, i wanted Art to have that chance and so did many of you… right up to the moment Art named his offensive coordinator… and i thought, okay… maybe Walsh is wanting that 2nd chance too… too bad Davis didn’t interfere…
i remembered what the Raiders were like under Shell… very, very good… they had to be…
because every single man, woman, and child in the civilzed world knew what play the Raiders would run next…
and so it was again… astonishingly so… unprepared… same game plan every single game… the same crap that presumably cost Shell and Walsh their jobs 10 years earlier…
and so Al Davis thinks… this has got to get better… I need to find another Gruden type… a real football guy that I can trust and train… and who can bring these Raiders back to glory…
and maybe he did find that guy… young Kiffin does remind many of us of Gruden…
including Gruden’s one fault… disloyalty…
it appears Kiffin isn’t as committed to the Raiders as Al had hoped… Kiffin apparently had been out shopping… for another job…
and what does the majority of the Raider Nation have to say to Al Davis…
is it: It’s okay Mr. Davis, you’ll find a better HC…
no…
it’s: “,,al davis just needs to shut his pie hole “
January 29th, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Pete,
did you ever think that if Davis never interfered with what Gruden was doing and constantly questioned anybodys loyalty, Gruden could possibly be are head coach still?
Fact of the matter is Gruden is still in the same place Davis sent him,
January 29th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
I love you pete
January 29th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
i live in florida…
Gruden’s wearing out his welcome here too…
rumors about where he might go next…
he was good at taking Dungy’s team to the Super Bowl…
not so much since then…
January 29th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Is his loyalty in question?
January 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
[...] jh wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by jh”Here’s ONLY a quick extractZymurge…Thank you it all makes sense now. [...]
January 29th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
[...] Andrews mom wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by Andrews mom”Here’s ONLY a quick extractI love you pete. [...]
January 29th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
What’s a better movie to watch tonight?
Superbad or Hot Rod?
January 29th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Bo,
Superbad for sure.
January 29th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
I think the problem is that Kiffin is exactly as committed as Al Davis hoped. In fact Kiffin said he hoped to be back, he never said anything disloyal to the franchise. Yes he said we were bad, he said the team was full of young players that never had experience to win in NFL, okay 5 games tops per year =)
Kiffin wanted to change that, but the only way you can see you shortcomings is to acknowledge those shortcomings. To Me it looks like Al doesn’t want to see what’s negative and only talk about what is positive (the past etc)
January 29th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Thanks RR53
January 29th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
as for gruden….
to my knowledge, both allen and gruden has already extended their contract, for 3 more years…
But if he hadn’t got hte bux to the playoffs he would have been out
January 29th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I like Rob Ryan’s image and I have nothing negative to say about him. But I have to question why a new coach with a 4-12 record (losing several times despite leading in the 4th quarter) should be denied discretion to pick a new defensive coordinator, but a coach with a 12-4 record should have carte blanche to replace the DC. If I’m the owner, I’m more concerned with a head caoch with a 12-4 record who wants to shake up half the staff than one with a 4-12 who thinks changes need to be made.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Although I hated Kiff’s playcalling I believe he has to be given a fair opportunity to improve this team whether that is firing coaches or trading/releasing underachievers. That said don’t be too arrogant and do these things without the owner knowing of this. I think if Lane ran these decisions about personnel Al will be comfortable with them just make it work. Let’s get on the same page and get Al’s team to a SB before he goes to that big Black Hole in the Sky.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
Zymurge, that was amazing.
BoJax: Superbad
January 29th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Fellas I think you guys have answered your own questions. Rod you say you hated Kiff’s playcalling. To some degree, I agree. The offense no doubt improved, but by how much really?
GRaider you talking about a guy who coached a 4-12 team, and at times seemed a little in over his head. You’re gonna flip the keys of the entire franchise to this guy?? He could ruin it. And I mean really ruin it. I know this isn’t the predominant sentiment on this site but I didn’t think the defense played THAT poorly. Hell they lost two games, one 13-9 and one 12-10. It’s not like they’re giving up a forty spot every time out. So, I wouldn’t go shooting everyone on the Defensive side of the ball.
That being said, I think if I’m Kiff, I concentrate on the defense and see if you can get that unit to improve.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:24 pm
Kiffin’s playing the game. He’s in a catch22 situation, and trying his hardest to make the best of it. Major props to Lane for even having the moxy to at least TRY to make the necessary change. I think Lane now knows his place, but is still trying to make a name for himself. Right now, I bet he can’t wait for his next job. I just hope in the next year he can embrace how fortunate he really is to be a part of Raider history. At least now he must know that Raider Nation is behind him 99.999999 percent! (FireKiffin represents 0.000001 percent)
January 29th, 2008 at 8:26 pm
Zymurge I don’t buy any of that. What was Kiffin wearing??
January 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
hey…
i am an optimist…
who knows… maybe the kid went into Al’s office and apologized…
“al, i f****d up… what do i do to make it right?”
“sit down, kid and pay attention… you want to make changes, ya gotta sell it to me first…, pretend i’m your boss…”
“no problem, boss… here’s want i want to do…”
we can only hope for something like that.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Oakglenn -
Thats what I’ve been saying about Kiffin too (see my lame 7-11 analogy earlier). I think he has a ton of potential, I like his confidence(cockiness) and I think that he has the Raiders headed in the right direction. But the bottom line is he is a 4-12 coach. It’s all about the W’s.
You are not alone my friend. Keep up the good posts OG.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
OG,
If I’m Kiffin, I’d give Crazy Al and RR rope to hang themselves. I’m sure Crazy Al is going to pour much $$ into the D this year to support his decision to keep Ryan.
That being said, Kiffin should put the lion’s share of his energy into continuing the development of JaMarcus, finding a playmaking WR, and shore up the o-line/LT position. That’s his ticket to survival in Raiderland.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
We learned a lot about Kiffin in the first San Diego game when he went for those fourth-and-longs in the middle of fourth quarter (and converted a couple). Every other coach in the league would have punted/kicked. Kiffin was not only realistic enough to recognize that we had to go for it to have a shot at winning, he had the guts to do it. He was determined to win and didn’t worry about being second-guessed by parting with convention. I expect that’s a big part of the reason the players stayed on board and kept working for him.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Florida Pete,
That sounds so normal…. dosn’t quite fit the Raiders. But it would be nice.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
I thought it was awsome of Kiffin for going after the player (dont remember who) when he felt he hit J. Mcowen too hard. I think that showed alot.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
The sickest part of ALL THIS is that Crazy Al probably has more respect and appreciation for Young Kiff. If there’s one thing Kiff has, it’s some big-ass balls. Balls on 4th down, balls on long FGs, balls to call out Ryan, balls to stick up to Crazy Al. Is this all a test from Crazy Al to see if Kiffin is maverick enough to carry the torch??
January 29th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
he wasn’t about to let anyone hurt his girlfriend! Kiffin wouldn’t have done that for me, old employee #8.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
What can I say Oakglenn? The franchise was already ruined when Kiffin got here. He changed that by motivating the team to be competitive in all but a few games. Before, the losses were in the books after three quarters. The franchise would REALLY be ruined, with a nail in the coffin, if the coach who brought some fight to this team gets booted over hurt feelings. Only a lackey would come coach for us then, and no capable free agents would want any part of it.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
weak spots on defense…
DT, Safety, depth…
weak spots on offense…
WR, LT, depth…
we’re not that far away…
January 29th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Raider Raul, I think you nailed it. That spirit is, after all, why so many of us admired and respected Al Davis in the first place. Lack of fortitude does not honor the legacy.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Right on Pete. I completely agree, every single coach the we’ve had since Shell was fired back in 95 have been back stabbing suns f guns. if they would have been loyal and honest to Al we would have won at least 8 more super-bowls. I mean look at our rosters, nothing but top notch quality talent and commitment to excellence everywhere baby! Every single first round pick have turned out beautifully and all those Superbowl MVPs have really played their heart out for us… Godang ESPN people have stop smoking that shite!
January 29th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Good direction, FP. I think we need a punishing middle LB, with Morrison moving outside.
January 29th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
sorry had to post this…check out this modded mercedes if your bored like me…
http://www.sidereel.com/Fifth_Gear/_watchlinkviewer/28#
barabus rocket
January 29th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
this franchise was never ruined…
remember the Super Bowl year…
the mantra from the press was consistent…
the average age of the Raiders was 62…
the bs that year just didn’t stop…
but as it turned out, the writers were right…
the raiders were very old… it is now five years since our last Super Bowl…
we have had nearly a 100% change in personnel…
we are now a very young team…
and this coming year is going to be very exciting…
January 29th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Al’s middle finger Says:
January 29th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Right on Pete. I completely agree, every single coach the we’ve had since Shell was fired back in 95 have been back stabbing suns f guns. if they would have been loyal and honest to Al we would have won at least 8 more super-bowls. I mean look at our rosters, nothing but top notch quality talent and commitment to excellence everywhere baby! Every single first round pick have turned out beautifully and all those Superbowl MVPs have really played their heart out for us… Godang ESPN people have stop smoking that shite!
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
my point, Mr Finger, is that Al Davis never gave up… tried and failed to find the right guy to take over…
January 29th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Oakglenn asks:
“Zymurge I don’t buy any of that. What was Kiffin wearing??”
I don’t know, I’m only passing on the scoop. My sources aren’t as good as Schefter’s after all. I don’t shop at those high falootin’ gourmet grocery stores that NFL HC salaries allow for.
But I can read one thing into the story. He didn’t change the menu to pork chops, which means that he’s not thinking Razorbacks. Sorry Dakota.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
did he change it to fish????
was it fish???
tell me!!!
January 29th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Zymurge…Come on admit it…You know Kiffin was wearing Under-Armour wear.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Zymurge…
I got 1/3 through before i got it, funny though, schefter could see in the tea leaves that shell is comming back too =)
January 29th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
Rumor was it Kiffin was wearing Raiders boxers durring the Senior Bowl.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Speaking of bad journalism, I decided to update his wikipedia entry for the source of this rumor to reflect recent behavior. Check it out before it gets reverted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Mortensen
I recommend that we all make a concerted effort to keep it reflective of reality and keep our version of the public opinion there for all to see. Wikipedia supports editing by the public for th public after all
January 29th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Pete — he might have considered fish at one point, but then he thought about how little control that he’d have working for Parcells and fell back on the safer chicken option.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Yeah, Z, it all boils down to what Kiff is wearing right???
GR and Raul, it’s funny what you guys are saying about going for it on fourth down. I got into it awhile back on this site about that exact thing. A very successful NFL coach once told me this about his own players, “if I don’t believe in them, who is gonna believe in them.” I think that’s the messsage Kiff was sending by continually going on fourth down.
I want Kiff to be here. I’ve said a ton of times, I think things are gonna settle down and it’s back to business as usual. I don’t think the franchise was ruined before Kiff got here, but it was awfully close to being ruined.
I think alot of good has come out of this. I think Kiff knows his voice is being heard. I think Al knows obviously his voice is heard. I think the Raider Nations voice is being heard. I think that’s all a good thing. I think Kiff is here for the long haul, and I think the Godfather is gonna get him some coaching help on the offensive side and some player help on the defensive side. I think this is all gonna have positive implications. Just if some of you guys would help me escort all the weak cry babies who were “out” over the side of the ship. Maybe they can float across the Bay on their happy little Chucky dolls.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
[...] Graider wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by Graider”Here’s ONLY a quick extractGood direction, FP. I think we need a punishing middle LB, with Morrison moving outside. [...]
January 29th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
We older raider diehards were used to a certain level of football from our raiders. Since the last SB win we were a average team at best those days have passed and now we have a team that was at best up until the late 90’s we started to get competitive and ended up in the SB. But since then ya we are pretty shitty, but we are talking 5 or 6 years. I can remember the the days when the saints fans wore bags over they’re heads and called themselves the “aints”. Hell they were the shits for as long as i can remember. There were a few more teams back then, Atlanta, Seattle, Tampabay, they all had very long loosing streaks. Our game looks like it turned around a little this year thanks to Lane and his staff. So if in 3 to 5 more years we can get to a SB then guess who the genius will be again. You guessed big Al. Thanks to free agency now all the other teams have now caught up to raider football, every team has a Jack Tatum, and a couple of nasty LB’s. Hell the nfl didnt look like it does now until it merged with the afl thats when things opened up. If we can keep the same coach and draft correctly we can have a competitive team in a couple of seasons, whataya think
January 29th, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Oakglenn….I will always be a Raiders fan…I may get upset at some of the things that go on here and there but as I always say….If I am a fan when they win I will stay a fan when they suck.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
great vid of the 1980 raiders
http://www.stage6.com/user/rbrt44/video/2142437/AG-Oakland-1980-XV#
January 29th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
man I love these oldschool clips…Makes me proud..cant wait to get back to greatness!
January 29th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
lmao…Raider rule #1 cheating is encouraged. #2 see #1
January 29th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
Moss is a punk! Go GINTS
January 29th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
There is a clip that makes me wish we could have the same defensive back field like tatum, atkinson,wilson, and so on. Anyway it shows a patriot player trying to use tatums pants to get off the ground and tatum pushes him back on the ground, it was on utube.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
You guys we’ll get there. We’ll all get there. And believe me, it’s gonna be really, really really sweet.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Chicken? We have to assume this means there is something going on with the Falcons especially after the way they dealt with the whole Mike Vick issue.
January 29th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
I really cant wait Oak, I hope its sooner that later. Us fans deserve it.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
January 29th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
When you stop cherry-picking phrases and look at the overall context of what Moss said, it looks quite different…
“Things weren’t really going like I expected them to go, both as an individual and collectively as a team, People in that organization had high expectations. I got traded there, we had Derrick Burgess, Warren Sapp, so you had a lot of guys that had names, I think a lot of things got in the way where football wasn’t really the main priority around there any more, Things started getting in the way with coaches and play-calling and stuff like that”.
Now let´s see….
1.- He makes clear the Organization had high expectations and did their best to put something togheter, as evidence by his mentioning of recent acquisitions Sapp, Burgess and himself.
How come the Organization had high expectations but football wasn´t the main priority?? What were those expectations about then??…Curing cancer??.
The key is what was said next…the ”main” issue:
3.- ”I think a lot of things got in the way where football wasn’t really the main priority around there any more, Things started getting in the way with coaches and play-calling and stuff like that”.
It seems to me that he´s clearly saying that coaches and playcalling and stuff like that…is what got in the way, right?.
Now that´s not hard to believe, you only need to recall, Shell vs Porter…and how during the season some veterans questioned why one of the best players on the team was not around on sundays to help them win games.
Maybe that´s where football wasn´t the priority came from??.
Here´s Sapp on the issue: “And I like to have my second best receiver on the field, suited up and ready to make plays for me. And that’s not happening, for whatever reason. That’s the one thing, more than anything, that would affect this ballclub, is him suiting up on Sunday.”
And a Jerry source at the time: “It never should have taken this long,” one source said. “This was something personal between two men that shouldn’t have affected the team.”
Then Walsh, the Coach´s most trusted ally got the Playcalling taken away from him, John Shoop took over and the team remained stalled and an embarrassment, at this point you can imagine what the mood was around the buliding.
So, don´t blame Davis on not trying to win, blame him for hiring Shell, that was a colossal mistake and it went much deeper than the horrible exhibition we got to watch on the field, it poisened the locker romm from the start, feuding with a player is normal, suspending a player without pay is not, it´s a lot of dollars that a guy has lost and you don´t see it that often.
After that experience it´s no shock Moss didn´t wanna stay no matter who was brought as coach, specially considering he´s not into the whole 100% effort stuff, which is what everyone is giving in Alameda to turn it around.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
Wow that was long…sorry.
As for Moss´final comment:
”The team-concept was sort of screwed up in Oakland”.
Randy, I know you will find this very, very hard to believe but the Raiders actually looked a lot like a team since you were last seen around.
Coincidence? maybe, maybe not.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
In 1980 I was at a raider sfwhiner pre season game in oaktown, in those days I drank and drank alot at the games, anyway two rows in front of me was a guy with a niner banner, he was given tickets from a season ticket holder who didnt go to pre season games, so I said what the hell and I set his banner on fire, lost my season tix, and one thousand fine, 6 weeks work furloug. I was drunk but i remember it very well. I believe it was joe montanas first year.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
It must be hard for reporters to stand there with a straight face when Randy Moss starts a dissertation on the team-concept.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Lol Toocharp… You missed a helava year. I musta been less than a month when that season started. You olderguys are lucky to have been able to witness those days. This vid rocks…Makes me have much more respect for Al Davis and makes me understand better why so many stick up for him so much.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Forget Randy Moss… Lets move on to bigger and better things just like he has. Punk bastard!
January 29th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Allright, done with Moss, but I want to make sure I tell you:
I don´t pretend to know what Moss meant or did not meant to say, I offer a very reasonable, I think, interpretation based on what went on last year and in his own words. Make of it what you will.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
http://www.stage6.com/user/rbrt44/video/2148353/TheHistory-S&B-1960-
another great video
January 29th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
Uhm, catch me up to speed here, but who was it that signed Moss and insisted that his behavior wouldn’t be a problem here, because we’re the Raiders and people like Moss have “done well here before”? Answer: NOT Lane Kiffin.
Randy Moss is exhibit # 343423432432.342343b that Al Davis has lost touch with today’s game. He really thought Moss would come in here and be a Ted Hendricks type of leader.
Moss is also exhibit # god knows what that Al’s great reclamation projects of old were more than likely approved by a personnel guru like Ron Wolf. Likely, it was Ron Wolf who gave Al the yay or nay on which reclamation projects were actual football players, and which were nothing more than worthless 3 legged dogs that other teams got rid of for a reason, and/or prima donnas like Moss.
Moss is a raw talent who’ll likely do fine on a team already established and heading in a direction (I say that with hesitation, as it’s still early in Super Bowl week and there’s still plenty of time for him to get caught red handed beating a hooker), but Al’s acquisition of Moss as a team builder was yet another reminder just how urgent it is for him to cash out and call it a career.
When you tie his Moss blunder in with his stonewalling Kiffin on a defensive coordinator, you really have to wonder if there’s anything Al Davis can do right anymore, in terms of building winning football teams. I really don’t think there is, other him than completely staying out of the way.
January 29th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
Then who would find young bright talent like Lane Kiffin?
January 29th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
BHP- Do you know AD personally ? If so realistically how long do you think he’ll lead the orginisation? Keep in mind Im not a hater, Im just curious. Oh and did you catch any flak from the other day?
January 29th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Marley,
Nice posts delving into Randy’s quotes. Some more thoughts:
We were 4-0 in the 2006 preseason when Moss made the “fishy” statement. If you recall, that was right after we traded Doug Gabriel and released Danny Clark. I also thought those moved were strange. Yes, of course the whole Jerry “F-U” Porter thing was going on. Crazy Al and Shell were scheming up some strange things. Walsh was a joke. I don’t blame Randy for wanting to leave. Now, old school Crazy Al would’ve EATEN the $10Mill contract and would’ve FORCED Randy to sit or play (Marcus? Beurline?). But reasonable Kiff realized that’s not the smart thing to do, so he talked Crazy Al into saving $$ and moving on.
BTW, this a horrible thought, but I’ll say it anyways: It’s completely the Raiders fault that the Patriots could go 19-0. If we don’t trade Moss to them, there’s NO WAY they go 16-0 in the regular season!!!
January 29th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Whoever recommended him to Al, BHP. If it were Al himself that picked Kiff out of the rough, I think he’d let him coach the team. Same goes for Gruden. I used to cave into this crap from you guys, about Davis getting credit for hiring the right people, etc. But the truth is, all he did was hire them. He didn’t pick them out himself. He took them on the advice of others. This franchise is hopeless with Al Davis being involved with football operations. I challenge you to demonstrate otherwise.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
Evening…..MaddenRaider
So…
”Moss is also exhibit # god knows what that Al’s great reclamation projects of old were more than likely approved by a personnel guru like Ron Wolf. Likely, it was Ron Wolf who gave Al the yay or nay on which reclamation projects were actual football players, and which were nothing more than worthless 3 legged dogs that other teams got rid of for a reason, and/or prima donnas like Moss.”
Well, consider this:
Al Davis brought Ron Wolf to Pro football and taught him everything he knows.
When Al Davis hired Ron Wolf he had never worked in football in any capacity, he was a 24 year old, football magazine editor in Texas.
Don´t take my word for it either….
”At 62, Wolf was as active this off-season as when he was an awed 25-year-old learning at the knee of Raiders owner Al Davis.”
CNNSI-2001
”Wolf was born in New Freedom, Pa. but he learned the game in Oakland at the hand of the Raiders’ Al Davis, for whom he worked for a total of 25 seasons.”
NYTIMES-1996
So stop bringing Ron Wolf to try and diss Al, Wolf was a good soldier for the Raiders and I think everyone hold him in high regard.
Granted, Wolf went to have success on his own, great for him, no one doubts he´s a great football mind and it served him well to learn from the legend.
And hey, on a sidenote, even Ron Wolf wasn´t perfect..check out this tidbit from 2002…….
”Wolf had been interested in Spurrier when he fired Ray Rhodes after the 1999 season. As he anticipated, Spurrier declined. But Wolf has no doubt that Spurrier will not have trouble managing older, professional players, as some of his critics believe.”
“No question, I think he’ll be a success,” said Ron Wolf, “The reason? Because he has a brilliant offensive mind and that’s what it’s all about.”
Yikes….
January 29th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Madden,
You’re onto something. I think the same goes for the draft and free agency. Crazy Al gathers information collected by others, and takes recommendations from colleagues around the league. I don’t think he’s got the EYE for talent anymore. He’s evolved into nothing but a blameless control and power freak. He is no longer an innovator, only a historian.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
I´ll take Spurrier over the Shell 2.0 disaster anyday though.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Raul…MaddenRaider…
I think these guys would disagree with you….
”Al Davis is the only person to have served pro football in such varied capacities as (1) a player personnel assistant, (2) an assistant coach, (3) a head coach, (4) a general manager, (5) a league commissioner and (6) the principal owner and chief executive officer of an NFL team.”
Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Now maybe it´s just me, but he seems to have some sort of football background where he can lean on to make his own decisions, rigtht?.
I´m not the one bringing up the past, but since these guys are now even questioning history, well, the facts are there. Just like the facts are there to support the assertion that AD´s decision making lately has been less than stellar.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Who in the world would suggest a 31 year old HC? your kidding right? Big Al has always had a sharp eye for young talent, if you don’t know that stop calling yourself Maddenraider because you disgrace the name. Big Al himself was 33 when he started. Madden was 34.
He has made his fair share of mistakes and some, but no one would’ve taken a chance on Kiffin except Big Al.
Kiffin is the Head coach and will be as long as HE wants to be. He has to win bottom line.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Well, it´s way past my bedtime, I have to go now, catch up later.
Good night.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:43 pm
There are very few people that I would chose to biuld a team from the ground up over Big Al. From staff to on field talent. Once he has people he trust in place he is second to none. regardless to what he media and Raider fans have to say he outstanding in that field.
I could tell you stories and maybe sometime I will but I’m tired now. But the 49ers new president Scott McCloughan and his brother Dave whom I know quite well come from the Raiders not Scott but Dave. Dave is a genius their father scouts for the Raiders.
These guy’s revere Mr. Davis and so does some of the best in the business. But we’ll talk again. later
January 29th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
I’m proud of what Al Davis has accomplished in his career. And for those things, I’m proud to be a Raiders fan. I just don’t think he’s as involved with day to day enough to say he’s as “connected” to the game like he once was. The one thing Crazy Al cherishes is finding “diamonds in the rough”: Gruden, Kiffin, Porter, Nnamdi, Curry to name the good. There are also the not so good: SWilliams, Whitted, Jett, Travian Smith, Routt, Dorsett…
It’s just that Al Davis is no longer the end-all, be-all he used to be.
January 29th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Ok, Marley. Because writers at SI and the NYT gave Al credit for spawning Wolf while punching up modern day fluff pieces on Wolf, it must be true. I’m sure they’ve studied Al Davis as well as Mark Ribowsky did when penning “Slick; Silver and Black life of Al Davis”, where Ribowsky interviews dozens of Al’s associated dating back to the Citadel, all with matching stories of Al jacking other peoples’ ideas and taking credit for them.
Marley, the writers you quoted likely don’t know what they’re talking about because their articles weren’t about Wolf and his relationship with Al, but more so just quick punch ups about Wolf at modern day.
It’s just like when writers talk about our tanking in ‘95, while not mentioning Hostettler’s injury. They don’t mention Hoss’s injury, Marley, because they’re 25 years old and don’t even know about it, nor do they care. They just see the stat of us losing our final 8 games, and run with it. Same with these guys giving Davis the credit for Wolf. They just saw that he was an employee of Davis, the HOF’er, in the Raiders heyday, so they just assume Davis was standing over the feeble little Ron Wolf with his finger in his face, teaching him the ropes of the NFL. What a crock.
All the writers you quoted had to do is look at the results of both Ron Wolf and Al Davis since Wolf’s departure to see who did the heavy lifting when Wolf was here. Wolf built a Super Bowl team in the ’90s, a decade where Al Davis couldn’t get the Raiders off the ground.
And, what is your point with Spurrier? Are you now trying to downplay Wolf’s abilities as a GM? Make up your mind. Is Wolf a great GM who’s success is owed to the wisdom of Al Davis, or was he an idiot that Al was smart for getting rid of?
This is Davis spin 101, people. The classic flip flop. First give Davis credit for someone’s success, then, to hedge your bets, downplay the person’s success one paragraph later. That way you’ve got everything covered.
Marley, seriously, how much do they pay you? If it’s a dime less than a living wage with full medical, pension, and 401k, you’re getting shafted, man. There is no godly reason a fan should be this loyal to Al. What’s in it for you?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:00 am
Nice, Madden! I hope all the Al-worshippers read your post and just think a little before proffessing their blind allegiance. I do appreciate Al, but the current Crazy Al is driving me nuts.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:00 am
BTW, not to get off topic, but Guiliani got his ass handed to him in Fla. tonight, and is expected to drop out of the race. Guilaini was without a doubt the candidate to carry on the Bush ideology. Considering the Republicans losing congress last year, a congress they controlled since 1994, tonight could really be the end of the Reagan brand of neo-conservatism. Glad to see that elephant finally bite the dust. Good riddance.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:23 am
Kiffin has been around coaches his entire life, literally. He has an astute knowledge of how they act and what they do. Forgive him if he thought he was the head coach, who every where else HC make the decisions on their staffs. Maybe he should have said yeah Al by the way, I am going to fire Ryan because I have no confidence in him and the players cry to him undermining my authority. It’s not a popularity contest. Do you think guys are running to the other coaches in New England saying Belicheat is too tough? Hell no, that man has authority and the players do what he asks because it’s their job. He was not always looked upon favorably by his players either. But when the guy who has the power to cut you has the final say, I think you will see players playing for their jobs, doing and saying the right things.
I have said it before and I will say it again. Al Davis needs to recognize what he is doing to his legacy. His legacy around the NFL was burned long ago, I am talking about what he is doing to his image in Raider Nation. When they eulogize him no doubt it will be all his accomplishments deservingly so, but after that it’s fair game on what he he’d become. You think Lombardi is looked at that way? Halas? Wake up Al you are doing this to yourself and giving your many enemies the ammo to burn you. Oh and BTW, fire your media guys because they did you a disservice. Kiffin got ahead of this story and just killed you.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:40 am
oh and Sam Williams has talent but you just can’t see it because the dude is always hurt. He’s a train wreck. A hundred bucks says he gets hurt in training camp and is on the pup list to start the season.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:48 am
MaddenRaider…nice try…and since I´m awake already, might as well go on.
You said it yourself: ”I’m sure they’ve studied Al Davis as well as Mark Ribowsky did when penning “Slick; Silver and Black life of Al Davis”.
Well, let´s see:
”When Al Davis hired Ron Wolf he had never worked in football in any capacity, he was a 24 year old, football magazine editor in Texas.”.
That’s a FACT, well, at least according to where I learned about it….care to guess where??..in Mark Ribowski´s very same book that you quote.
FACT, On that book, Ribowski describes the Wolf hiring and in page 131 to be exact, he says of Wolf: ”Most of all, he was uninfected by the football rat-race and he was a good soldier, he would serve his master gladly”.
I didn´t mention this because I find it derogatory to Wolf and I believe that it´s not an accurate depiction of the man.
But hey…forget what I think.
Let´s just take you and Ribowski at your word and consider Wolf as not much more than a capable, loyal-serving peon eager to follow his Master´s commands then.
Allright?.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:05 am
[...] Hobs Gnarly wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by Hobs Gnarly”Here’s ONLY a quick extractoh and Sam Williams has talent but you just can’t see it because the dude is always hurt. He’sa train wreck. A hundred bucks says he gets hurt in training camp and is on the pup list to start the season. [...]
January 30th, 2008 at 1:05 am
[...] MaddenRaider wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by MaddenRaider”Here’s ONLY a quick extractThey just saw that he was an employee of Davis, the HOF’er, in the Raiders heyday, so they just assume Davis was standing over the feeble little Ron Wolf with his finger in his face, teaching him the ropes of the NFL. What a crock. … [...]
January 30th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Marley, I mentioned Ribowsky due to his claims of Al jacking the ides of others, going back to his days at the Citadel. That was the only reason I brought up Ribowsky.
My basis for my point on Wolf is results. The 1990s. The Raiders: Good as dead until Gruden arrives.
Green Bay, GM- Ron Wolf: SB victory.
You do have access to won loss records at the team headquarters, don’t you?
And, again Marley, why downplay Wolf in regards to Spurrier while in the same breath crediting his success to Al Davis’s teachings? A sudden lapse of memory regarding the value you put on Wolf, or playing the field with your spin?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:22 am
Now, you’re chalking up Wolf to being nothing more than a Davis yes man. Was he a Davis “soldier” in Green Bay? Was he constantly using the force and tapping into lord vader when building his team pretty much the opposite of how Davis builds his?
I’ll tell you what, let’s play a game.
You list every negative quality that can be attributed to Ron Wolf, and I’ll list every negative quality that can be attributed to Al Davis.
You want?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:32 am
In fact, I’ll do you better, Marley. Name one single decision the Raiders made that led to a Super Bowl victory, that Ron Wolf was not involved in.
Ron Wolf has won a Super Bowl without Al Davis. I really don’t believe the same can be said of Al Davis re: Ron Wolf. Hey, it’s open for debate. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong. But let’s brainstorm examples.
You game, Marley? Oakglenn (aka Maddenslapper), you in? AceyDuecy? Any of you mods at a certain fan site that would like to debate with me without the ability to have me banned? Yeh, right. Let’s not get ridiculous. You cowards wouldn’t know what to do in an open debate, without your finger on the ban button, if your life depended on it.
Let’s do some Davis vs. Wolf, using results as examples, as opposed to mere statements made by people connected to them.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:43 am
MaddenRaider…
I don´t do spin control, flip-floping or try to cover every side. I don´t need to.
The Spurrier reference was a humorous, kinda, reminder that everyone slips once in a while, that´s why I included the Shell 2.0 reference later on, that´s all it was.
Of course, you don´t mention the fact that I made clear I considered Wolf a great football mind on his own right.
But hey let´s talk flip-flopping…shall we??…
A year ago, almost to the date…we were arguing about, you guessed it, Al Davis´s and the Raiders…
You pointed out that Davis was demented and a lousy GM and the whole nine yards….I replied to you that he had gotten some good players on the last couple of drafts as well as some decent FA’s…to which you replied:
”MaddenRaider Says:
February 2nd, 2007 at 11:58 am
Marley,
Agree on Al regarding defense. Rather it’s Al who’s really the architect, or Rob Ryan, at the very least Al is staying out of the way and letting smarter people, that understand today’s game, call the shots. That’s all I ask out of him.”
Wait!….so the Defense was looking good, on paper anyways, therefore Al Davis was staying out of the way and letting smarter people, call the shots….Allright.
Of course, things soured on Defense and MaddenRaider quickly turned the whole thing around, in fact he did a spectacular, world classs flip-flop on that very same subject, here´s an example:
”MaddenRaider Says:
January 9th, 2008 at 1:51 am
..But the biggest area of concern is our stubborn use of a no blitz, man defense. Since Al won’t budge, we need a DC who will just do what he wants.
Ryan will do what Davis wants. With Rob Ryan, I can’t see how our defense will be any better than it is this year. I can’t see out opponents not taking advantage of our vanilla coverage and our maximum of 4 pass rushers per down.”
Whooaa!…
Whatever happened to: ”at the very least Al is staying out of the way and letting smarter people, that understand today’s game, call the shots”.
Well we know exactly what happened, the Defense went from being the 3rd ranked unit in 2006 (when Al Davis had nothing to do with it)…….To an ugly mess in 2007 (when Rob Ryan misteriously decided to stop calling the shots and decided to turn it over to Al Davis).
Such is the life in MaddenRaider´s world…..
January 30th, 2008 at 1:54 am
It’s obvious what we have here are one ex Raiders employee and one current Raider employee having a failure to commuicate
January 30th, 2008 at 1:55 am
MaddenRaider………
Fact checking time!……
MaddenRaider Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Marley, I mentioned Ribowsky due to his claims of Al jacking the ides of others, going back to his days at the Citadel. That was the only reason I brought up Ribowsky.
- No you did not, you said:
”I’m sure they’ve studied Al Davis as well as Mark Ribowsky did when penning “Slick; Silver and Black life of Al Davis”.
- That seems a lot like an endorsement on a guy who did such good study, but I know the drill, it´s only good if it serves your purpose.
- You accuse me? and make stuff up? dude it´s all right here for everyone to see!….
”MaddenRaider Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:22 am
Now, you’re chalking up Wolf to being nothing more than a Davis yes man.”
- No I never said such a thing, your boy Ribowski did:
”Bob Marley Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 12:48 am
FACT, On that book, Ribowski describes the Wolf hiring and in page 131 to be exact, he says of Wolf: ”Most of all, he was uninfected by the football rat-race and he was a good soldier, he would serve his master gladly”.”
What I, Bob Marley said was:
”I didn´t mention this because I find it derogatory to Wolf and I believe that it´s not an accurate depiction of the man.”
January 30th, 2008 at 2:03 am
Allright, Now I´m gonna have to skip the gym tomorrow morning due to this lovely late night chit-chat.
I´ll see you all tomorrow.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:28 am
Finally Jeff Fish is gone. One of the things I’ve been saying for years, these Raiders aren’t properly conditioned to make it through a whole game.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:20 am
I was watching that interview w/ Moss. He about made me barf! Wasn’t it Moss that was so grateful that he finally found what he was looking for In the Oakland Raiders . How first class we were . That was when he first came aboard. That he was happy to be a RAIDER. Give me a break! You are full of it MOSS! If you should have happen to be with Dallas. You would have been pissed off right now, Not at yourself but everyone around you. You are like AD you look for people to blame. Oh , there you are at the Super Bowl showing off acting like your the greatest thing that happen to the Patriots. You just happen to get lucky and are only along for the ride! So, enjoy it because Your so CALLED TEAM IS GOING TO LOSE!!wHEN THEY DO wHO ARE YOU GOING TO BLAME? Right now all you see is that ring . You don’t care about that team. People were so hyped when you came to us ! Me. I always knew you were trouble. I was never a “yes we have Randy Moss’ fan! I always knew you had no class!!They compare you to Great recievers! Give me a FFFF–n break!! A Jerry Rice or Tim Brown you will NEVER be!!! GO GIANTS!! Only because I despise the Patriots almost as much I do moss!! P.S what was up with that damn towel around your neck? Case proven !!! NO CLASS!!! RAIDERS TILL I DIE!!!
January 30th, 2008 at 5:22 am
What makes me even more sick!! You have TIM BROWN’S number. You are not worthy to wear his #!!!!
January 30th, 2008 at 6:45 am
[...] mr. raider wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by mr. raider”Here’s ONLY a quick extractZ post 189 LMAO now we need to update sh!tner. [...]
January 30th, 2008 at 6:45 am
[...] ldynblk26 wrote a fantastic post today on “Comment on Moss on Media Day by ldynblk26″Here’s ONLY a quick extractWhat makes me even more sick!! You have TIM BROWN’S number. You are not worthy to wear his #!!!! [...]
January 30th, 2008 at 7:16 am
It is not the strength and conditioning coaches job to make the players want to improve. They have to want that themselves. That is why getting rid of cancers like Moss was critical. The fourth quarter tank jobs by the defense are because the Raiders D line is not good enough. They play hard but they get pushed around.
Davis and Kiffin need to find guys like Rod Coleman, Reggie Kinlaw and Howie Long in rounds two through five.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Randy Moss is a chump, quitter, rich, 10 million dollar a year baby.
If you make 10 mil a year and are supposed to be one of the elite receivers in the game, you don’t tank because you have enough pride and self respect to put up the big numbers that warrant your high salary.
As BHP stated. The checks never bounced, you perform, period!
The same goes for Kiffin! I have been highly critical of Al Davis during this crisis, but there is also something called accountability. Kiffin should also be accountable for being loyal and of course discussing the changes he wants to make with the GM (Big Al).
We all know that Al is not the most rational person in the world. If I worked for him, I would get close to him by following his rules and being strategic in gaining his trust instead of opening up a power struggle situation. That’s why I don’t believe the rumours that Kiffin made a unilateral decision about Ryan without consulting Al. That would be an IDIOTIC thing to do……and unproductive. Unless you wanted to get the boot, get your money and go back to college.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Can we pleaaase find a decent safety in the draft?? I thought we had finally gotten rid of Schweigert last year when Darius was signed, but obviously not.
How hard is it to find a halfway decent safety…Schwag, Dorsett, Pope, Eugene…we must have the worst list of safeties over the last 10 years in the league. Let’s hope Huff is moved to Free Safety, and they can find somebody better than Schweigert…a tackling dummy would be better than Schwag!
January 30th, 2008 at 8:25 am
Ok gents, looks like these mockers are finally coming to their senses. Check this out: http://walterfootball.com/draft2008.php
While I don’t agree with all of his logic, you have the respect that it looks like he actually gave it some serious thought. And oddly enough, his mock matches nflfans.com mock I posted a few weeks back. NFL fans mock is a mock developed by the fans of the repsective teams who are much more knowledge all things being equal that 1 person.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:26 am
NFL fans Mock 1: Jan 3
http://www.nflfans.com/x/view.php?pg=officialmock1_2008
January 30th, 2008 at 8:27 am
NFL fans mock 2: Jan 25th
http://www.nflfans.com/x/view.php?pg=officialmock2_2008
January 30th, 2008 at 8:49 am
The great thing about this years top 3 defensive players is that they all seem to be highly motivated FOOTBALL PLAYERS with the talent to back it up….I have wondered if maybe AD got a little gun shy about drafting D linemen in the first round of the draft after the last 2…..Both had awesome talent but played when they felt like it kind of guys.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:54 am
The Raiders’ winning percentage over the last five years is .238. The Tampa Bay Devil Rays’ is .404.
When you look at it that way, kinda makes you want to puke.
The worst teams in the NFL since 2003:
1. Oakland 19-61
2. San Francisco 25-55
3. Detroit 26-54
4. Arizona 28-52
4. Houston 28-52
The Raiders are 0-4 against Houston, lost to the Lions last season, and San Fran the year before that.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:58 am
I don’t know why I posted that stuff. Just amazes me when I see it.
I hope the future is brighter!
January 30th, 2008 at 8:59 am
I think its almost a done deal “at this point” that the Raiders will draft Chris Long, Sedrick Ellis or Glenn Dorsey. I will be satisfied with any one of them. It will be shocking – no SHOCKING – if they draft McFadden. Won’t happen.
The bigger point of contention is who do they draft in the 2nd? Options: WR, OT (and DE/DT depending on 1st pick). I think they’re going offense b/c JR needs some serious help to further his development. An OT and WR in the 2nd and 4th would be ideal.
January 30th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Terrapin…
I like both of those mock drafts. Either one gives us a potential star at DT.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:00 am
What about a Center in the 2nd?
January 30th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Ok I tweeked my name for this one for Sk I kind of like 35 to 47 lol I might have to use that.
coach on Wheels I see your point and I am not real taken with Ech I just think it would be nice if they would confirm their transactions. Until the team confirms it. Then as far as Iam concerened it aint happened. I do however like everybody else or almost everybody else think Jordan is gone. Rodes maybe maybe not. I think he wants out though just like Jordan let him go. Hope that Bush is the real deal and if the price is right bring back Fargas.
If the price is wrong well pending another FA Pickup and or draft pick. You are looking at Bush, Ech and Lee in as your HB’s if iam not mistaken Lee was on IR last year would not supprise me to see him at least make it to camp again this year.
As for spell check well that would mean having to type it in word first I aint always got that much time but if my words become to hard to interpet then i will consider it for you guys.
your looking at
January 30th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Centers are not projected to go that high in this draft. This draft is low on so called quality centers. Most are projected to go after round 3. We may just have to depend on Newberry giving us 1 more year (hopefully he can be effective) or Grove (cross your fingers) stepping in. Next draft there should be a lot more quality Centers available – 1st/2nd round talents and apparently deeper.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Ok ask and you shall recieve I guess, but what is a reserve future signing?:) Coppied the following off the raiders website under tranactions.
Description
01/16/2008 RB Adimchinobe Echemandu Reserve/Future Signing
01/11/2008 WR Will Buchanon Reserve/Future Signing
01/01/2008 WR Drisan James Reserve/Future Signing
01/01/2008 C Jesse Boone Reserve/Future Signing
January 30th, 2008 at 9:12 am
K-Rock…Reading the blogs while arguing theism again ?
January 30th, 2008 at 9:24 am
Gee, I wonder why this report has not been picked up and shoved down our throats by by espn, Schefter, Gay, etc……
”Raiders coach Lane Kiffin returned to team headquarters Monday morning with no overt signs of him being on his way out of a job.
Several reports last week, all unattributed, said managing general partner Al Davis had stripped Kiffin of all authority over personnel moves and the hiring and firing of assistant coaches.
Yet, Kiffin, who spent last week in Mobile, Ala., coaching the North squad in the Senior Bowl, was the primary person interviewing James Lofton for a coaching job for five hours or so Monday. Kiffin was joined by offensive coordinator Greg Knapp in interviewing Lofton for an unspecified position.
Noticeably absent was Davis. He arrived toward the end of the process but only to exchange greetings with Lofton, who starred for the Raiders at wide receiver in 1987 and ‘88.That Kiffin presided over Lofton’s interview brings into question the credibility of reports that said Davis had taken away Kiffin’s authority.”
Steve Corkran, Contra Costa Times.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Bob, that doesn’t fit the narrative.
K-Rock, is that from Peter King’s post? Jason Jones linked to that the other day. The main problem with what King said, and I’m paraphrasing, that “they obviously had some talent if they went to the SuperBowl,” is that that superbowl team was kind of old, especially on offense.
Barry Simms and Jerry Porter are the only guys left from that team. All of the other skill players from team are retired.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:37 am
COW Re: post 60 – Im in – 2 one’s and Barber – Make it happen…. NOW!
January 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Moving on…
Tomorrow it´s T.O´s Super Bowl Party…I´d love to crahs that one.
Among others…Romo, Sapp, Edge, Ocho Cinco, Shockey, Portis, Michael Irvin, Jamie Foxx, Destiny´s child, Denzel…..and our very own JaMarcus Russell.
I´m a bit nervous, take it easy big fella and for the love of God, stay away from Michael Irvin.
Also, did you know T.O´s full name is Terrell ElDorado Owens?.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Bob…I think it sounds too credible for those of their ilk….They want negative rumors that if not true they can later make an excuse for by saying hey I was just relaying a rumor.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:46 am
Why would the Cowboys do that? I mean, you guys are sitting around here arguing that the combination of Fargas, Bush and Rhodes means we have strength at RB and should ignore McFadden. So, wouldn’t the same theory apply to the Cowboys? If they re-sign Jones and keep Barber (RFA) why do they need a RB? I am no Cowboy’s fan but I believe their needs are at safety, WR and o-line…two of which they could probably fill with their two late first round picks. I seriously doubt that the Cowboys would make the above-proposed trade of Barber and two #1 picks for McFadden.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:49 am
19-61… .238 winning percentage. Unbelievable.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:50 am
I’m not sold on adding Barber to the mix. I think he’s just another mediocre back in a pile of the same,and I assume that he’s saddled with a not-so-cap-friendly contract at this point.
The reason I say he’s mediocre is because he’s been struggling for a couple of seasons now to clearly beat out Julius Jones in a system that rolls out the red carpet for a primary back to put up massive numbers. In fact, I’d say that Barber and Jones as a pair this year have provided so little that it helped to steer the Cowboy offense into the unfamliar pass happy style that they ended up in.
I’d rather have their 2nd and something low, like a 5th in this deep draft instead of Barber given what is already there (potentially, with Jordan out and Fargas resigned) in the RB depth. That 2nd can be parlayed into OL help that will pay off more in the running game than a non-game breaker like Barber will.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:52 am
.238 isn’t even a good batting average!
January 30th, 2008 at 9:54 am
Randy Moss is a gravy-train-er. We didn’t lose all those games when he was here because of him. But he certainly didn’t help us win any more games. Hell, I would’ve gone out there and walked around the field, dropping balls for half the amount of money he made. Dude should be sending Kiffin fruit baskets from here to eternity for trading him to the Pats.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:58 am
As far as RB, I would be OK with Rhodes starting. I have mixed fellings on Fargas. He had a great year, but he does get injured easily, and we still have the unknown factor of Michael Bush. If Bush can live up to even some of the expectations, he and Rhodes would make a solid combo. It’s too bad Bush didn’t get any playing time in ‘07 to see what he’s got.
January 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Jerry you called it. read this article right here about Moss & how he was right to quit on the raiders…
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2…0&sportCat=nfl
Will we ever get our past glory back? =(
January 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
Zymurge
Let me join in the props for your post yesterday about the grocery store…hilarious.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Moss was a bad idea from the beginning. Everyone knew going in that he was a malcontent, and adding a malcontent to a dysfunctional franchise going nowhere was idiotic. Moss is a talented player who needs structure and guidance to succeed. The Raiders between 03′ and 06′ were incapable of providing either of those things to Moss.
If we had added Moss to the 99’ to 02’ things may have been different. We had stability at QB and a head coach that demanded respect. It just goes to show that you have to know yourself (i.e. your franchise) before you can bring in talented malcontents, otherwise you are asking for trouble. And nothing Lane Kiffin could have done or said to Moss would have drawn Moss out of his dislike for the Raiders.
Moss is a punk-@ss biotch, but Al is the idiot who thought he could succeed here during a downturn in the Raider franchise. The Moss trade is just #3,258 on the list of reasons why AD is losing it.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:05 am
RE: Joe on the team… the official site says this
Transactions
Date Pos. Player Description
01/16/2008 RB Adimchinobe Echemandu Reserve/Future Signing
01/11/2008 WR Will Buchanon Reserve/Future Signing
01/01/2008 WR Drisan James Reserve/Future Signing
01/01/2008 C Jesse Boone Reserve/Future Signing
January 30th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Dakota…. If DMac is soooo good as you have stated about a million times on this blog. And since you’re always right… Why is it so inconceivable to think the Jerry Jones the 2nd most meddlesome owner in the NFL wouldn’t go and get his guy. I’m not saying it’s gonna happen, but if he wants to throw 2 ones and Barber. I’ll take it! Let’s say we don’t need Barber and he is willing to substitute Barber for a day 2 pick this year (4 or 5) or a 3 next year. I’d still take it!
January 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
DTIA,
I too wouldn’t hesitate to make either of those trades. I just want to know why fans on this site say we are set at RB, but then postulate a trade with the Cowboys that goes against their own theory about RBs and need positions.
I am just pointing out the hypocrisy in those trade scenarios. If we will by-pass McFadden because RB is not a need position, why do the fans seem to think the Cowboys would not do the same? You can’t tell me Jerry Jones loves talent more than Al Davis…so what is the basis for the Cowboys wanting to move up for McFadden? I know where the rumors started (last year’s NFL draft), but why do some of us think, given what has been talked about here on the blog, that the Cowboys would be any different than the Raiders when talking about McFadden?
January 30th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Dakota…The Cowboys are at a different point in their development than the Raiders are…A game breaker skill player could give them that little something extra to get them to the Super Bowl…not in a few years but maybe as soon as next year.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Dakota
There was report on pft.com of possible trade invloving Dallas and Miami for the 1st pick and it included Barber..
”ESPN’s Chris Mortensen suggested during a special edition of Sunday NFL Countdown that Cowboys owner Jerry Jones is eyeing the possibility of swinging a trade with the Dolphins for the No. 1 overall pick in the 2008 draft.
Such a deal would allow the ‘Boys to bag running back Darren McFadden, who played college football at Jones’ alma mater of Arkansas.
Per Mort, any such deal would have to include the rights to Cowboys running back Marion Barber….”
There, blame Mort…not the fans.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:42 am
After defending Al Davis for over 25 yrs..I too feell it’s time for him to step down. The game has passed him by. He is a GREAT owner, but he should leave the football operations to someone else. But rest assured. I would not hand over POWER to LAME KIIFFIN either. Thats right!! The guy acted like a spoiled little brat when he heard that the Arkansas job was filled. He threw a major tantrum, slamming doors,cursing, yelling, and tossing stuff around. He tries to say all the right things, but the fact is that he is no better than GRUDEN. He didn’t want to sign an extension to his contract. Why?? Because he’s looking to jet on out as soon as he can. He will leave us high and dry with all his coaches, not Al’s guys. I agree Al should step down, but by no means is this a confidence vote for Kiffin………..KIFFIN SHOULD GO AS WELL and take McCLOWN with him.
GO RAIDERS!!!
January 30th, 2008 at 10:43 am
Good point JH. I think a “game breaker” on the Raiders last year would have resulted in at least three more wins in 07′, or may result in three more wins in 08′, but who can really say…
Too bad we can’t draft McFadden and Ellis.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:44 am
I´m with you, I don´t think it makes sense for Dallas so I find it hard to believe.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:46 am
Sorry for not responding guys. I have an 8 page paper due in Philosphy as well as Survey of Civilization test in the morning.
Hard on a 35 year old going back to college.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:48 am
LOL! My typing skills aren’t that great either.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Bob…I tend to agree with you in that Dallas is in a better position to go for need players…just making a point as to what the thinking MIGHT be if JJ is truly interested in trading up.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I think JJones would be nuts to trade away 2 1’s for an unproven commodity when he has 2 nice running backs that complement each other well. There offense last time I checked was very good. I agree with you on several points in your last post. I would think that they would hope that a good player drops to them like Dan Conner (LB), Kenny Phillips (s) or Ryan clady (OT), but these players will probably be gone. They could still get the likes of Desean Jackson (wr) Jeff Otah (OL), Lawrence Jackson (DE) or Arkansas RB Felix Jones. He could get Felix Jones and one of these other fine athletes this year if they do not trade the pick.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Bob,
Jerry Jones isn’t that dumb. Mort strikes again.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Glory, you bought the “Kiffin slamming doors” crap?
I’m with Raul. My speculation is that Al looks at Kiffin and sees himself 40 years ago: 32, USC assistant, cocky as hell.
One of the reasons that Zymurge’s posts are so good, because they’re not that much more ridiculous than any of the rumors floating around.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:54 am
K-Rock, I did that, too, at 30. It’s a lot easier getting to those 8am classes, right?
January 30th, 2008 at 10:57 am
The Miami-Dallas rumors sound to me like The Fish working the media in order to build up some demand for his most valuable commodity — that #1 overall pick.
I’m sure that he’d love nothing more than to scare one of the teams picking around 4-8 (where DMac is properly valued) that have their eye on him into swapping picks to lock him up. In his eyes he’d probably be targeting the Raiders or Jets as likely suitors. Alterntively he could get someone deeper in the round that needs a playmaker (i.e. the Bears or Lions at 14/15) in exchange or several picks.
Then Parcells would get the guy that he wants (knowing him, he’s eyeing O or D line, since he’s a trenches first kinda guy) at a more friendly cap value and he’d pick up some nice value for the move up. This has pretty much been his pattern in each of his recovery projects where he goes for quantity over quality in his first drafts to get more of his kind of players on the roster.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:22 am
Sorry my verbs don’t match. Trying to take notes in class and talk to you guys too!
January 30th, 2008 at 11:28 am
K-Rock, I hope you weren’t analyzing the draft in the comments section of a National Review Blog…hahaha.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:32 am
K-Rock,
Pay attention in class!!
No wonder schools don’t allow kids to handle their cell phones in school
Seriously, though, good luck man…it can’t be easy. I hated school. I just can’t tell my kid that!!
January 30th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Haha! The political stuff got deleted.
I will take the hint.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:37 am
99.999% when draft day deals are being talked about in advance it’s absolute nonsense, because like Z says it just drives the price wacky.
That being said, what do you guys think of trading the overall #3 to Chicago, for Chicago’s #13 oveall, #45 and #76 overall????
In other words kiss McFadden, Ellis Long and/or Dorsey goodbye, we would get a lower 1st rounder, but we would have 2 #2’s and a third rounder.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Glenn, this might be a year in which more draft picks are better. Especially since a couple were wasted last year (Moses, etc)…Aren’t there some good receivers expected to go low first/high 2nd?
January 30th, 2008 at 11:42 am
JohnS,
Agreed. It’s entirely possible that NONE of the media crap is true. I tend to think there are shreds of truth in all stories, but lately I’ve lost faith in the media (except Jerry Mac, of course). Even Kawakami admitted to making some things up “because it’s fun to speculate”. Nancy Gay admitted that “the letter of resignation was paraphrased to me”. Schefter and Mortensen are prized by BSPN as their traditional Raider-hater reporters.
We have been in the final weeks of NFL football, and these mediots are making their last-ditch “predictions & takes” about our beloved Raiders, just to try to make a name for themselves.
Maybe they are also trying to deflect negative press to the Niners? For these haters, it must actually be fun watching (and reading) Raider Nation scream “I’m OUT”.
I NEVER said I’d jump ship, like many bloggers here did.
January 30th, 2008 at 11:46 am
That sounds good Oakglenn, we could grab a #1 receiver and safety then a DT and OT
January 30th, 2008 at 11:56 am
Oak,
I would sign up for that trade in a heartbeat.As I stated many times before we need players,One player does make a team.Quality football guys not track stars or combine bodies.We need guys with F.B.I.(FOOT BALL INTELLIGENCE)
January 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Chicago is looking to get a dominant linemen and they have a couple of number twos from last year. They might be a real possiblity of a team who will trade up. This is certainly a deep draft. I’m seeing players i would LOVE to have even in the fourth round! That’s unusual.
Looks like the mods are gonna start editing and eliminating some posts and posters. As one who is fond of dropping f bombs amongst other niceties particularly to the trolls, in a move to try to clean up my act, I will now end my posts with positive public service announcements.
Kids Stay in School!
January 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Glenn
If were going to wheel and deal let’s go an extra step.
I know this will not happen, but It’s fun to look at.
Let’s trade our number one next year for Dallas 22nd pick.
Al and kiff would have #13,#22 #37,#45,#76.
Five players of the top 76 in this years draft.
We make up for the lost number 1 on 2009 and trade Burgess. His contract ends after the 2008 season, he wants to much money based on other DE’s in the NFL, I’m referring to Peppers and Freeney.( $30 million Guaranteeed)
Do we get there quicker or take longer and hit it this year.
Based on last year’s team we could of easily won 7 games. That would put us in this year’s draft between 12-17, and probably the same for 2009 or very close.
my reason for the trade with Dallas.
Burgess has definite trade value.
Possible players at #13,#22:
Jeff Otah OT
Lawrence Jackson DE
Kentwan Balmer DT
Ryan Clady OT
January 30th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
We would need a real GM to pull that off but I like it Dell
January 30th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Hey everybody…
The only way I can understand why Sam Williams is back on a one year deal, is if we try to trade him away or something. But who would want him?? I hope we could stack up 4th and 3rd round picks, but only in Madden thats possible =) LOL
January 30th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
I just finished reading Jemelle Hill’s “Randy was right to quit on the Raiders because the Raiders quit on Randy” article.
The Raiders really are viewed as a Joke by everyone else in the league right now. You hear/read that a lot. I’m frustrated by it, because any defense sounds, well, defensive.
So what, we just ignore it? Laugh along with them?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I read that article too. It’s so annoying to read that garbage. If that’s the case, then why didn’t the Dolphins players just quit? Why don’t the Florida Marlins teams quit every year? Because they’re professionals and have some self-respect and decency about them
January 30th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Yeah, looking back, I think Porter’s reaction to the Shell/Walsh offensive scheme was the right one. Porter got benched. What if Randy had done the same thing? He could have used his juice to maybe put an end to that sooner.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Dell,
Sounds good but what will happen when those players contracts are up. We would have to sign them to their 2nd contract.If they are really good I wonder what the cap consequence would be.Not to mention J-MACs contract will be up.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
Why do these reporters not say these things about the Lions? Or the Niners? Was TO praised for getting out of San Fran? They called him names and still hound him to this day. I guess if he had went to the Patriots, then they would have juggled his nizuts too.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Are any of you guys planning on going to this years Draft. If you love football it is a great time. Since I live here on Long Island it is just a quick LIRR ride to the big apple.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Just read a piece on Chad Johnson forcing his way out of Cinnci. Compared him to TO. They are bad. Moss forcing a trade with Oakland is OK though, because its the Raiders.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Someday OUATITW… It’s definetly a dream of mine. Do they let you bring food/beverage?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
PFT has some great stuff on Emmitt Smith. Too funny!
January 30th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Marley, instead of digging up things I said a year ago, dig this up; What I just said 12 hours ago:
How many Super Bowls has Al Davis won without Ron Wolf’s help?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
RaiderNationPA,
They sell food but no beer.You are allowed to leave and come back though.Could you imagine the riot that would break out with radio city full of drunk guys wearing their team colors..The Raider fans always seem to hook up when we pick. A few years back I brought my Commitment To Excellence banner.Pound for pound we are the most vocal fans.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Once Upon A Time,
Where do you get tickets?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
And, Marley, you flip flopped again. You seemed to be resting on the notion that Wolf was nothing more than a foot soldier for Al Davis, going so far as to mocking his praise for Steve Spurrier. Now, you’re back at Wolf being a genius? Fine. I’d rather have you in your brief state of common sense. So then, being Wolf is a genius, and you’re now conceding to it, do you now realize that Al Davis isn’t? Do you now realize that it was Ron Wolf who primarily built our 3 Super Bowl teams? Do you now realize that Ron Wolf has won a Super Bowl without Davis anywhere in site, while Davis has not seen a Lombardi without Wolf as his obedient little student, as you like to color him? Do you now realize how transparent your BS is?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:44 pm
going to the draft sounds fun. Do you have to buy tix?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
RaiderNationPA,
The tickets are free(at least the NFL does something right) They also give you a goody bag wih a radio w/earpiece so you could listen to the espn feed. The draft has gotten so popular you have to line up the night before.If you stay till the end of the 2nd day you get a voucher that you mail in for 1 ticket to next years draft.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
BTW, with one of the major fan sites now having a rule that you can’t criticize Al Davis; Marley, OakGlenn and their spin crew had better get used to me having a lot more company in here.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Al got us to a SB without Wolf.
And for some strange twist of fate Barrett’s demons picked that night to manifest themselves, and things have not been right since.
I bet Al returns to the SB before Wolf does again.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
A rule that you can’t criticize Al Davis? That’s pretty messed up.
January 30th, 2008 at 12:50 pm
MaddenRaider, What site is that?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Is that the Al Davis fan club site?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
The Al Davis for President campaign HQ site?
January 30th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Emmitt Smith called him L Cool JJ!!
January 30th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
MaddenRaider…
You can twist and turn every word I say in any way you want in order to justify your points, it´s all out there for you or anyone to check.
The fact is: your record betrays you each and every time you try and make a point.
You cannot make a serious argument when you can say whatever comes to your mind about something and then do a full 180 like it never happened, it´s all documented around post 230 or so.
Now to answer your question: zero, none. That´s how many Super Bowls Al Davis has won without Ron Wolf, if that´s enough to prove your point, great, knock yourself out.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Raider Raul, the press didn’t make this story up. Remember, nobody cares about the Raiders other than us. It’s kind of sad to see how delusional a lot of Raider fans really are. The truth is, people outside of our camp only care about us, and stories coming out of Alameda, when the team is WINNING.
I believe the resignation letter exists. I believe it was Kiff’s people that leaked it to the press.
Raiders: “Nothing to see here”
Team Kiff: “No comment.”
Those are two entirely different answers. All Kiffin has to say is: “There is no letter”. That’s it! He hasn’t.
My best guess as to where the team is at now, is that the letter does exist, Kiffin refused to sign, and due to a peppering of phone calls from Al’s friends with common sense, like maybe Madden himself, Al has softened his position a little. But it doesn’t matter. Kiffin wants his own staff, he’s not getting it. Al found out about Kiff seeking the Arkansas job, and Al will never forgive him for it. Kiffin, at the latest, is gone after this year.
And, it’s a long way till the ‘08 season, and a lot more sparks can come from this drama. It’s not impossible for the old man to just buy out Kiffin’s contract before the season. Once again, the owner that supposedly wants to win more badly than any owner in the game has just ruined whatever chance we have at actually being a winning team within a few years.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
E-Mail: jemeleespn@gmail.com
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=hill/080130&sportCat=nfl
January 30th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Marley, you’re going back a year to try to find hypocrisy in my points of view, when I asked you one simple question regarding Davis and Wolf. The reason you’re doing this is to distract from the question, and make my character the topic of discussion. This is why I call you a spin master, because it’s what you are. It’s all you do.
And, glad to see you finally answered the question. So, being that you’re now aware of Davis having never won the big one without Wolf, are you now warming up to the fact that Al Davis is nothing more than an owner with good connections, and couldn’t GM a team out of a paper bag without someone like Wolf making most of his personnel decisions?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
MaddenRaider…
Your post is full of speculation. You do not “know” if any of that is true.
You do not know that the press didn’t get some things about this story wrong. The news is not 100% right 100% of the time. They speculate off of curent info.
What you are doing is no different than the media. It might well turn out the way you say, but it might not.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Just win baby!
January 30th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
Looks like Marley just got “Marley’d”.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
There is an al for prez site!
January 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Hill is an idiot. According to her, everyone that has talent on a losing team should quit or demand to be sent to a winning team.
If only sports worked that way. If it did, the Pats would still be at the bottom of the NFL because no one would play for them.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
MaddenRaider…
I know it doesn´t really matter to you if what I say is true or false, rigt or wrong.
Hell, you have taken down much more important people than yours truly…according to you:
Rich Gannon, is a rose colored glass commentator who due to his Raiders past can´t be trusted.
John Madden´s comments on Al Davis are easily dissmissed as nothing but ”lip service” by you, making Madden a big time hypocrite and outright liar in your book.
So, don´t mind me.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Oakglenn -
I like your draft trade scenario, an extra 2nd rounder would make it easier to draft Trevor Laws in that round and not feel bad about it. If you haven’t noticed I’m kinda high on the Laws kid. I am also convinced that the Raiders need a 3rd rounder too however possible. There’s some holes that need filling for sure and a 3rd rounder could prove to be invaluable.
I don’t know if Al is willing to trade down, it would certainly be out of character for the organization. It would make a lot of sense though. I’m sure if the Raiders did pull of a trade like that it would be because of Kiffin and despite Al.
Nice post, you too Raider Dell, nice ideas.
Hey Bob -
don’t trip on MaddenRaider too much, he seems to enjoy being Marley’d. It’s hard to argue with cold hard facts and those old MaddenRaider posts that you unearthed to validate your point were priceless. Like you said it’s all out there for everyone to see. Effing classic, thanks for that.
Nation -
Thanks for all of the great posts. I don’t know if it’s because of the mods that have it in for MaddenRaider or if everybody is just cooling off, but it sure is nice to talk football again.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Wha?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Do you get the feeling Marley and Madden, one is a current Raider employee or player and the other is an ex-Raider employee?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
MaddenRaider…
When someone has an opinion on something, you have to look at that person´s record before you pass judgement on wether that person has any credibility.
Looks, like you do not pass that test.
As far as me being Marley´d….why don´t we let our fellow bloggers decide on that?.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
K Rock, you’re right, I am speculating.
But compare my speculation to that of those who insist there is nothing going on with Kiffin and Davis.
Kiffin didn’t deny the existence of the resignation letter. All he has to say is that there is no letter! That’s it! “No letter exists”. And, the story is over! He has not said that.
So, at the very, very least, Kiffin via his lack of a statement firmly denying any resignation letter is keeping this drama going. At the very least, that would indicate that there is serious drama between him and Al. Again, for the umpteenth time, ALL HE HAS TO DO IS DENY IT.
ALL HE HAS TO DO IS DENY IT.
He hasn’t.
So, I’d feel a lot less naive speculating that the relationship between Kiffin and Davis is beyond repair than speculating that the two of them are joined in hands and humming Autumn Wind together, as you’re speculating.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
K-Rock, yeah..I was thinking about E-Mailing Jamele Hill, but she is a Moron… Just like Mortensen, Schefter and the rest of those idiots. Now that Randy is on a good team, they think he is a class act….meanwhile he has a restraining order on him for beating a woman.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Moss quit on the Raiders. He’s a woman abuser & future OJ scum. Why even pay attention to him on this blog?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
see my post #336
January 30th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Looks like we need a new topic…
January 30th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Can Jason Kidd play in the NFL?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
He beats his wife too.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Dakota -
She beat him from what I understand
January 30th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Right Dobb, beat him till his hair turned blond in Phoenix.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Sorry, Dogg…not Dobb.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
You’re right, Marley. I did not “Marley” you. After all, to “Marley” someone is to duck and dodge their points by instead making them the topic of discussion. That’s not my style. I’d much rather debate peoples’ points head on then make things personal.
So, Marley away.
In the meantime, I’ll continue to question Davis’s credibility as a successful GM, and the Ron Wolf point will come up often. Have fun digging up posts of mine, from like 2005, in a desperate attempt to distract people from it.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
RaiderDobb is in the house!
Seriously I think he counter sued her claiming that she physically and mentally abused him. Meanwhile she’s all of 4′3″ at a buck o five!
Kidd is from Oakland though so I believe him.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
Correction: I’d much rather debate peoples’ points head on THAN (as opposed to “then”) make things personal.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Hobs…
If I worked in Alameda, I would have already executed my secret plan to set up a crew of our fellow bloggers and kidnapp the Ryan brothers for the weekend, get them the same haircut, same facial hair until you could notell who´s who and then convince them by any means necesasary that Rex is Rob and works for the Raiders and Rob is Rex and works for Baltimore.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
I never said they were holding hands. Don’t accuse me because your mad at someone else.
All I was saying was you can’t state that stuff as fact.
Kiffin will not just call a press conference during Super Bowl week to answer questions about a stupid news story. He did what the Company required and stated no comment.
The company Kiffin WORKS for has released a statement through the proper channels stating that Kiffin is the coach and the rest was wild speculation.
Until further notice, that is where things stand. Anything more is speculation on our part.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Too funny, I guess your just doggedly stubborn in your support but hey it works for you.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
You know Rob has to have some talent in him he was with belicheat. He should be able to do his thing without someone looking over his game plan if that is the case
January 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Madden — Kiffin didn’t deny the UFO’s in Texas either. Therefore they must exist.
Marley — How long shall they kill our profits, while we stand aside and look?
Now would you two gentlemen kindly take this outside.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Dogg, I like trevor laws too.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Hobs Gnarly, I wouldn’t work for the Oakland Raiders for anything short of a king’s ransom. Accuse these shills of being employees of the team all you will, because some of them must be. Either that or they really need to find a better hero to fight for.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Moss is a punka$$ bitch. They haven’t won the SB yet. If the Giants corners and safeties give him the biz, he won’t be a factor in the game.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Zymurge, what a retarded analogy.
There is a far more likeliness of Kiffin being drafted a resignation letter than there is of anyone seeing a UFO in Texas.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Err,I meant “Prophets” not “profits” in #357. Strangely, the latter works well too. Must have been a Freudian typo
January 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
MaddenRaider
I did not coin the term Marley´d nor do I care for it.
But It was my understanding that it meant getting exposed using double standards and basically trying to have it both ways.
As evidence clearly supports it, that´s right up your alley, not mine.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
I live in Texas, and I’ve never seen a UFO!
January 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Madden, apparently my sarcasm was lost on you. There’s even more likelihood of Kiffin seeing corn kernels in his morning crap but he didn’t deny that either. The moral here is that a lack of a denial is not proof of existence.
It’s also Raiders policy to not react to media stories. So technically, for Kiffin to deny the letter would be for him to acknowledge the media rumors, which is in violation of Davis’s policies. So by not denying it, one can say that is demonstrating his loyalty.
Spin control is easy if you want to take liberties with logic.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Madden sometimes I wonder about you, but then again I am sure people wonder about me. I accuse Al of being in it for the money to secure his family’s ownership after he is gone. I don’t think he has tried to win in the last five years, constant chaos is a great smokescreen. My other theory is dementia but that is not as conspiratorial. But if someone outside of this blog dogs Al then I will let them know he is Big Al. I appreciate him, I just think it’s time for him to retire. He is ruining his legacy real fast and not just with the general NFL, but with Raider Nation.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Fair enough then, K Rock. I won’t “state anything as fact”. But I will say that it’s more than likely Kiffin was drafted the letter, considering the circumstances surrounding this team in the past month.
I’d imagine I could go through this blog, read all of the posts from the people insisting that the media is making this all up, and point out dozens of unproven things stated as fact from their end, as well. And, I would call them on it, but you’re already on the job! Right? I mean, you are fact checking people defending Davis as well, I assume?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
If Rob Ryan does in fact return next year I hope he:
- Blitzes more than once per game
- Kicks Schweigert to the curb
- Teaches better tackling and aggressiveness
- Cuts off the Mullet..he looks like a homeless person
January 30th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I think I know how you feel Madden though, sometimes Raider fans (a small piece) grate on my nerves to the point I just want to aggrevate them and only here on this blog for some reason. You know your on the street somewhere and you see a Raider fan decked out you feel like saying something to them “sweet outfit” you know.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
One thing for sure, Al better fire his public relations people. They did him a disservice with this thing. My God Kiffin was way out ahead of that story making Al look petty and Al’s guys were stuck with terror or something
January 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
MaddenRaider = Mike Shanahan
Bob Marley = Jim Otto
Oakglenn = Rod Woodson
Zymurge = Jarrod Cooper
Dakota = Darren McFadden
Raider Dogg = Lester Hayes
JohnS = John Vella (He thinks the “S’ throws us off)
Raider Dell = George Atkinson
Huff24 = Stuart Schweigert
ATLraider = Mike Vick in jail
Hobs Gnarly = Charles Barkley
K-Rock = Lorenzo Lynch
Acey40Deucey = Jon Ritchie
Saintkaufman = Nappy Kaufman
Once upon a time in the west = Terry McDaniel
did I miss anyone?
January 30th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
I always say Al has scholarship babies in his front office, not just for the field you know.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:53 pm
hmmm I am not sure I took that as a compliment, but thanks I am opinionated enough
January 30th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
MaddenRaider..
By the way….
Best of luck on your anti-Davis crusade, I hope, one day you will get the Hall of Fame voters to un-shrine the guy.
Gotta run now, Al Davis is calling on me, it´s shoe-shine time!.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
Post 371….good one.
But can I be Jack Tatum instead?.
I´m sure Huff24 is gonna be thrilled…about that.
January 30th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
How did I rate Jarrod Cooper? I don’t even have any tatts! Can I apply for a change to Ray Guy?
As for you it can only be:
The Truth Revealed = Mike Lombardi
At least if the stores of him being the “leak” are true.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Zymerge, I’m relieved to hear that you were just being sarcastic with the UFO analogy, because it was the most retarded analogy I’ve ever read. Just in case you weren’t being sarcastic, and really were trying to pass it off as a legitimate counterpoint (I’m really not sure, as you seem to follow your sarcasm claim with even more stupid analogies), let me point out to you one more time:
The likeliness of Kiffin receiving a resignation letter trumps the likeliness of anyone seeing a UFO.
Let me know if you need more help with that.
And, my moral to you would be that the lack of physical proof of something does not mean it didn’t happen. Think corporations buy shredders because it’s just fun to watch the paper go through?
Finally, you’ve hit another low point by suggesting that the reason Kiffin hasn’t denied the existence of a resignation letter is because it’s against the team’s policy. Uhm…the team itself actually went on to deny it, thus…violating their own team policy?!?
Oh, I could really have fun and ask you for proof that there really is such a rule in the team’s policy, but I’d rather it were actually a fact because that would go further to debunk your theory.
You need a “coulda had a V-8″ smack for that one…
January 30th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
BHP is Jim Plunkett, Tom FLores, Willie Brown, Amy Trask take your pick
January 30th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
You forgot FIREKIFFIN…who is really Mrs. Shanahan
January 30th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
BHP is John Herrera
January 30th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Huf24 as Stu…ouch.
DRAFT MCFADDEN BABY!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
who the F*k is John Vella?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Art Shell’s Hat is Mike White.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
he did disappear for the longest time while all that was going on, if he is he should fire himself because he got lit up and smoked by Kiffin
January 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
john before your time
January 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Truth,
Terry McDaniel 1st round pick Oakland Raiders 10yrs 35 picks, 5td.
Charles Woodson 1st round pick Oakland Raiders 8yrs 17picks 3td.
Sorry c-wood looks like I was better.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
JohnS, just a former Raider that Al Davis sued…now that is loyalty baby.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
# The Truth Revealed Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
MaddenRaider = Mike Shanahan
Bob Marley = Jim Otto
Oakglenn = Rod Woodson
Zymurge = Jarrod Cooper
Dakota = Darren McFadden
Raider Dogg = Lester Hayes
JohnS = John Vella (He thinks the “S’ throws us off)
Raider Dell = George Atkinson
Huff24 = Stuart Schweigert
ATLraider = Mike Vick in jail
Hobs Gnarly = Charles Barkley
K-Rock = Lorenzo Lynch
Acey40Deucey = Jon Ritchie
Saintkaufman = Nappy Kaufman
Once upon a time in the west = Terry McDaniel
did I miss anyone?
….
LOL. Clever. But I’d have to make a few corrections:
Bob Marley = Artie Gigantino
OakGlenn = Artie Gigantino
Acey40Deucy = Artie Gigantino
January 30th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Now that it’s all quiet and everyone has assumedly put on a nice face of unity, this blog is bored stiff
January 30th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
For a team to deny a rumor through a designated spokesperson would not be a violation of the team policy if I’m reading Zymurge correctly. It IS team policy. Kiffin would be showing his loyalty by not speaking out of turn.
Kissing the Ring, so to speak.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:10 pm
So who is Amy Trask?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Amy Trask is the one that probably kisses more than just the Ring.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Oh yeah, from John Vella’s Raider Locker Room. I remember now. I bought a bunch of gear at the one in Pleasant Hill. Cool Store.
Speaking of lawsuits…
You know that Eminem lyric, “I just settled all my lawsuits/F*k you, Debbie?”
That reminds me of Al, if this Kiffin beef has legs.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
When the Al Davis crowd is playing the identity game, that means they got pwned again on something. Believe me, if these guys had an argument to counter the points made by the people who’s ID’s they’re trying to crack, they’d give it.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
didn’t need the visual
January 30th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
LMN = Amy Trask
January 30th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Uh, John S, we’re not allowed to post things as fact here without proof, per K Rock and Zymerge’s rules. So, if you could please give us a link to the team’s official policy, so we can see for ourselves exactly what it says regarding what employees can or can’t say to the press, we can then give the “team policy” point any kind of credibility. Don’t be like MaddenRaider. Don’t draw assumptions based on things that are right before your eyes. You need physical proof! Otherwise, you are speculating!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Dakota,
_ _ _ _ ring?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
I am Howie Long…
No Madden, I am not fact checking you. Just happened to read your post when I got here.
I am not against you. What you say might be true. Just saying that we don’t know anything for sure yet.
I get the feeling something was up as well. I am just hoping that whatever it is over with.
Kiffin winning some games next year will go a long way towards fixing things.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Speculation, I tell you! Speculators! SPECULATORS!! Ha!
I want to see the official team policy, now!
Come on, guys. Play by your own rules.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Yikes Hobs…you said it, not me.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Short term fixing, nothing is ever long term with the Raiders except for Al
January 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Said what? ring
January 30th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Its not what you say….
Its how you say it.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
ya got nothing on me
January 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I’m reading what Zymurge wrote and commenting on that.
Here’s a link that could help:
http://hooked-on-phonics.com/hooked-on-phonics-category.cfm?category_ID=21&cat=On%20Sale&AFID=122&redirCampID=56
January 30th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Truth -
I am honored be thought of like Lester Hayes. He was one of my favorite players growing up, plus he is just a great guy. I met him last year at WalMart selling old Raiders treasures, I actually bought the 8″x10″ picture of him standing there with his tongue hangin out, covered in stick em. Thanks for the compliment.
Bob -
I had no idea that you didn’t care for the term “Marley’d”. I will no longer use it. Too bad, it has become folklore of this very blog. Personally I was hoping it would end up in the Wikipedia.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Saying “I think, I feel, or it might happen” is better.
You said Kiffin was gone no later than next year. I was just warning you to be careful.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Hooked on Phonics………Dang Bro! LOL!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
ACTS 12:21
And upon a set day King Al Davis, arrayed in royal apparel, sat upon his throne, and made an oration unto them; Draft McFadden he proclaimed.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
John S, I read you just fine. And you did, in your comment, pass your interpretation of the Oakland Raiders’ company policy off as fact. So, it’s time for you to back it up. Let’s see a link to the official team policy for front office employees and coaching staff. Click your own phonics link if you need help typing words into a search engine.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Mike Vick only speaks Ebonics… I am actually Rod Coleman.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I think Kiffin will be gone after next year too. But if your worried about libel issues. You would have to be proven malicious in a meditated way. Besides, public figures are harder to win.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I have a Bible. I am pretty sure that is not ACTS 12:21
Though the Bible does say the Beast shall rise from the East.
Could be Al Davis…..
January 30th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
My personal speculation is that there is some truth to Monte Poole’s article re: morale being low, people not communicating, etc… I also THINK that the reason we haven’t heard anything new since Monday is that they’re behind closed doors, ironing things out. That is also my hope, since I think that Kiffin is a keeper. I think that BHP’s comment the other day, where he scolded himself while making it, has some truth, and that gives me some hope.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
MaddenRaider -
You are beginning to sound like one of the things that you despise, a system moderator. I just wanted to point that out. People will post whatever they post, either read it or don’t. It just seems to me that you are trying to enforce rules, which is the job of your arch enemy, the dreaded Mod!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
“IF I READ ZYMURGE CORRECTLY…(caps added for emphasis)”
Is there something unambiguous about that? I was responding to a post by another commentor.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Nostradamus
Century I
Quatrain #13
Through anger and internal hatreds, the exiles will hatch a great plot against the king.
Secretly they will place enemies as a threat,
and his own old adherents will find sedition against them.
Dude, Nostradamus saw the Kiffin/Davis rift coming years ago.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
BHP = Greg Townsend
January 30th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Someone posted Al may not care what the fans had to say about this but those around him might have heard loud and clear. But seriously, they have issues to resolve like where are they going to be after the lease expires, they need to stabilize if they are to have any constant sucess.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Well, John S, that’s almost what I’ve been saying all along. I said that I do believe there was a letter drafted, that Al came to his senses, knowing how disastrous it would be to have that mutiny on his hands, as Kiffin would certainly hold Al’s balls to the fire until he bought out his contract, and that Al has softened his position. I still believe however that this will be Kiffin’s last year. I believe Al screwed up yet another prospect at being a winning team soon. And, since K Rock isn’t holding Zyberge up to backing his claims of what is or isn’t in the team’s policy, I’m now not afraid to state it as fact!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
# The Truth Revealed Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
LMN = Amy Trask
______________________________________________________
I take that as a great compliment! Never been a girl, but I would love to take a swing against pioli =)
January 30th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
My forehead still bleeds occasionally. I hated playing for the Eagles, man Philly sucks!
January 30th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
That’s the feeling I get Madden as well
January 30th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Who would be your ideal pick to be the Raiders GM, if Al should decide he needs one? Anyone?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Ritchie was awesome.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Bruce Allen…just kidding
January 30th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Gene Upshaw… man the unions is strong here in DK! the term and the position ombudsperson is from Denmark, Ombuds is danish/swedish =) so why not Gene Upshaw? let vicki be Amy Trask…shes a girl at least =)
LOL
January 30th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Mitch Kupchak?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
Curtis Martin?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
Millen should be our GM, he has done a fantastic job in Detroit…
…just kidding =)
January 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
RaiderDogg, I don’t believe in any rules at all with the exception of those forbidding actual threats, etc. I was mocking K Rock’s big stick about my “speculating” that, get this, Davis and Kiffin don’t get along! He wants proof. So, being that people are giving me all this literature from the supposed “Team policy” regarding why Kiffin hasn’t just denounced the rumor surrounding the resignation letter, I’m holding them up to the same standards as a joke to point out how ridiculous K Rock is.
And, I stand by what I say about SOME mods at a certain fan site. They are a bunch of cowards that debate with the comfort of having their finger on the ban button. I would never ban anyone, or suggest the banning of anyone, for merely speaking their mind. As you guys can see, I can take a lot of heat. It’s a sports forum, for crying out loud. It’s going to get nasty. But one site, that was once a great site, decided to pass a rule that Al can no longer be criticized. Being that the criticism of Al Davis at this point in time is about as necessary as drawing a hose on a fire, this is a rule I refused to abide by, and I was banned.
As I said, I won’t be alone. This site has a large membership and about half of them can’t stand Al Davis, so there’ll be plenty more of the condemned joining me in these blog comment sections, that people like Bob Marley and OakGlenn have enjoyed dominating for some time with their pro Davis spin and their pack mentality. Expect the Davis crowd to be grossly outnumbered here in the near future.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
LOL Dakota. Alhough if he can get Kidd w/out giving up Bynum or Farmar, I’ll stop referring to him as a dumptruck.
Fair enough MaddenRaider. I think there was probably a letter drafted, as well, but that cooler heads prevailed (where’s KoolKell to call me a Pollyanna when you need him?).
I’m of a mind that if Kiffin is going to be out, it will be now-ish, and that if he stays through this season, he will be in for the long haul.
Especially if he does well.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Here is an intersting scenario for the draft.
1. Miami = Dorsey
2. Rams = Jake Long Let’s just say the 3,4 and 5 go
3. Chefs = Chris Long- How would you feel about Howies son going to them?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
There has never been a shortage of Al Davis Bashers on this site.
For whatever reason, MR, the beef against you seems to be personal.
Scottish Raider, Dakota, Huff, don’t pull many punches in criticizing the old man. They don’t generate the hatred that you seem to.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Because at the end of the day those guys we think are Raider fans, you Madden sometimes you seem just a little too bitter.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Hobs, the Chiefs can’t get the #3 pick. They can only get the #4 pick if we win the flip with Atl for #3 and then they win the flip for #4 against Atl. We win the tie breaker with the Chiefs so we are guaranteed #3 or #4…thankfully, because there really are only 4 studs at the top of the board, so we are guaranteed one of them no matter what.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
MaddenRaider…
Good, the more the merrier!..
Hey, are they reputable and fine gentlemen who stand by their word or do they just say stuff and then back down and pretend it didn´t happen? you know..like you.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Hobs, let’s hope Chris Long doesn’t go to the Chefs… Long & Jared Allen would eat our offensive line alive.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
I do hate Al Davis, but I love the Raider Nation and the Oakland Raiders.
I probably would not hate Al Davis if I were older than 31 and saw the glory days. I can see why some fans defend him.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Hate is a strong word but I hate what Al has done to the Raiders, not really the man. I like most of Raider Nation and I am older than 31 and I definately remember the good ole days and we haven’t seen them since Marcus left. Even with Gruden it was like I was waiting for the apcolypse.
January 30th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
ATL,
according to Dakota, we don’t have to worry about that scenario, but they would give us some fits if that were to go down. Carl Peterson would just revel in that would he not?
January 30th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
It’s 11 pm on my side of the world. gn all
January 30th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
MaddenRadier -
Obviously you haven’t been banned from this site and it appears that some users have indeed been banned for malicious behavior and stealing other user’s names. If you haven’t been banned then you are doing fine.
Honestly I’m not as familiar with any other Raider blog besides this one so I can’t really give you an opinion on other sites. I can tell that since they started moderating on this site things have gravitated back to football talk which is why most of us are here.
As far as the Davis crowd vs the anyone else but Davis crowd, I have never claimed to be either. My only claim is to being a Raiders fan. I do think that it’s rather pointless to try and divide a fan base but if thats your objective, then by all means give it your best shot. Just don’t get mad when people don’t always see it your way and maybe try not to treat this stuff like it’s life and death. You may not feel that way but sometimes your posts read that way.
I honestly haven’t seen Oakglenn be a “pro Davis guy” as much as a pro football guy, but then again we tend to agree so I’m sure my feelings toward him are much different than yours. As far as Bob goes you guys have beef that goes back, in the end I bet you guys would probably be good friends if you didn’t despise each other so much.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
JohnS — what you restated is what I was trying to say about silence / lack of denial as being a sign of loyalty to Al. We’re on the same page there, but you stated it much more clearly. Thanks.
Madden — my comment had more embedded sarcasm. The bit about following policy was just another example of how spin control can be used to prove any point, much like you have done with “the letter”.
As for the “official company policy” regaring silence, I personally suspect, postulate, and assume — none of this to be confused with actually knowing as fact — that this is not something written in the Raiders corporate handbook. According to my supposition, it is therefore difficult if not impossible to prove such a thing in a court of law.
However, it is a well known perception of the Raiders that they act this way. This is harder to refute. This article — while not officially Al endorsed — does a pretty good job of summing up what that common perception is: http://mvn.com/nfl-raiders/2008/01/17/raiders-chamber-of-secrets-stokes-smouldering-rumors-into-flame/
Now if you agree — although I suspect that there will be a way for you not to — that the perception is there, then it’s a fair leap of logic to assert the Kiffin is aware of this image. Whether or not an official policy it could be read into this — Disclaimer: this is an opinion, not a fact — that Kiffin acting in accordance with this perception is an act of acquiescence to Lord Al.
Now just to be crystal clear, this is just my take on something and given to show a possible counter story to explain why Kiffin did not deny the letter. This is on equal footing to your own theories about how his lack of denying the letter are detrimental to the organization. You spin negative, I spin positive. The truth is probably somewhere inbetween or none of the above. The reality is that we’ll likely never know, and thus are not rightfully positioned to declare either view as invalid.
Or put another way, welcome to the world of blogdom.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
John S
The reason other posters who are anti-Davis are well respected is because they stand by their word.
Dogg
No problem, I don´t care to use the term myself because I think it would make me pretentious, but feel free to use it as you wish, It´s your term.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Hobs, if Chris Long fell to the Chiefs at #4 or #5, I would be devastated. Howie Long is the reason I am a Raiders fan…I would be crushed, just as I was crushed watching Marcus Allen win game after game against us while with the Chiefs. Nightmare!
January 30th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Anti-Davis or Pro-Davis, makes no difference as long as you conduct yourself with honesty, IMO.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Raiderdogg
Do you miss KoolKell?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:10 pm
F-R-E-E that spells free, credit report dot com bay-bee..
I can’t get that damned commercial jingle out of my head!
January 30th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thanks for putting in our heads, a$$h*le…
I kind of miss KoolKell. He was curmudgeonly but he passed the honesty test.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
well said Dogg.well said Zymurge.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
Trading Jon Gruden to Tampa was the beginning of the end for Al Davis. Everything he has touched since that day forward has turned to crap. I have a lot of respect for what he did in the past, but since then??
January 30th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Thanks Lefty 12. And since you popped back into memory, how could you be assigned anyone other than:
Lefty 12 == Ken “The Snake” Stabler
January 30th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Can I be Otis Sistrunk?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
THANK YOU!
January 30th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Wow. The question is why is my name even coming out of Madden Raiders mouth??? Thank you Raider Dogg, again, as usual, you are right. No, I am not pro Al, not con Al. I am not pro Kiff, nor con Kiff. Tell you what I am tho: I am pro truth. Let’s go over my posts for the last month:
Universe Says: Ryan is gone.
Oakglenn: No he ain’t
Universe Says: Kiff is gone.
Oaklglenn Says: No he ain’t.
That’s pretty damn good credibilty, wouldn’t you agree?? And here’s the funny part, Personally I don’t care on either count, I only care about the truth.
Now, the one person MaddenRaider SHOULD be debating is Fire Kiffin. But since they are both the same 16 year old girl from Pacoima, Ca, that can’t happen now can it? But sweetie, I will say one last thing to you, which is keep MY name, out of YOUR mouth!
As to the rest of you, MaddenRaider and Fire Kiffin is a useless troll who just comes on here to piss people off and espouse stupid arguments to rile up people.
We should probably go back to talking football. Real Football. Raider Football.
Oakglenn
January 30th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
No, but you can be Manny Sistrunk, his cuz.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Howie Long was on 5 good minutes on PTI.Kornheiser asked him about his son and where he would like him to go when he is drafted. Howie responded he will keep those thoughts to himself.So I see no truth to the reports that the Long family does not want his son going to the Raiders.HOWIE is the LONG family.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Dakota…you can be McFadden’s bitch next year if we draft him
ha ha
January 30th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
As long as he is scoring TDs, I’ll take it for the team.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Soul Patrol can be McClown
January 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Was KoolKell intimidating to a loy of you guys?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
btw, Zymurge, you’re welcome. Keep bringing it.
Pacoima! LOL.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
rotoworld is reporting that the Rams have signed Al Saunders as there offensive coordinator. We have yet to sign James Lofton as any type of coach, and Lane Kiffin, last time I checked is still the head coach. It seems as all of these “Rumors,” have led to nothing and that things are still the same in Raider world. It seems to me that everyone from this point should focus on Free agency and draft talk at this point.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
OUTIW, did they ask him about any of the drama? Did he have anything to say about that?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Here’s a little background on Howie Long
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/features/flashback/nfl/hall_of_fame/long/
January 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
If Howie didn’ refute that he had issues with his son going to the Raiders, and instead took the path of keeping his thoughts to himself, then we can easily read into that his true desire.
His silence is clearly a tribute to Al.
It’s also notable that Howie did not refute the non-rumor that’s not going around about Millard being fired so that Howie can be brought in as the D-Line Coach.
The future is looking righter every minute.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
er, the future is looking Brighter.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
“Where would I be now if God hadn’t decided to rip me from stone?”
Howie Long, 1989
January 30th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Howie said she gave him some serious Coyote Arm. I have a feeling the camera does her a lot of favors.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
371……
Can I be Andrew or his mom?
January 30th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I have some of those 8×10’s
Glossy black and white. They sure look good.
I have Art and Gene sitting on the bench looking like they have been in a all day brawl that is a prized possesion.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Rams hired Al Saunders as offensive coordinator.
Finally, the Rams get something right. Saunders, a receivers coach during the Greatest Show on Turf Era, is very close to Torry Holt. After seeing Holt and Scott Linehan’s interactions last year, Saunders will be a welcomed addition. Saunders runs a Mike Martz-style offense, but his play calling is less pass heavy. The hire is promising news for all Rams skill players.
Jan. 30 – 5:53 p.m. ET
Source: St Louis Post-Dispatch
January 30th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Well I guess so. He was the greatest Man on this blog. There will never be another KoolKell! He ended a poster career on this blog. His record was 1-0.
January 30th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Howie was not asked nor did he bring up the Raiders
January 30th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
so the banning has begun huh? good, they needed to clean up some of the nonsense mess that’s been going on
January 30th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
THE TRUTH REVEALED
george atkinson—-Sweet, good call.
I have to be the most hated man in Pittsburgh,PA
Thank- you
January 30th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
When I read the posts from “Unknown” I envision KoolKell standing their wearing a paper bag, with eye and mouth holes cut out, on his head. He then proceeds to make really bad jokes until a gong is banged and then Chuck Barris comes running onstage to remove him.
Oops, I think that I just dated myself . . .
January 30th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Is zymurge raiderdogg. hmmm
January 30th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
CopenhagenFan
McClown–Soul Patrol,buzzer sounds—next
Try again, even McClown has more brains.
Think ex Raider Receiver??????
Please don’t ask for anymore hints.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Do I miss KoolKell? Excellent question. I have no problem saying that I miss the KoolKell from back in the day. Then he lost his mind and went a little nuts.
I honestly think KK is a good guy somewhere in there. I also think that he hated my guts because I would try and Marley him every chance I got. So I guess I was an a-hole too. All the blame can’t be put on him.
But I wouldn’t annoint KoolKell the greatest man on this blog. The greatest man on this blog is none other than Jerry McDonald. Without him this blog would not exist.
KoolKell either fell off the Earth, he got banned or he is posting under the name Unknown.
Either way I am trying to turn over a new leaf so to speak. I still say peace between us KK, no matter what you say, I have no beef with you anymore. I just hope I don’t walk out of the recording studio and get shot a few times. Just when the beef ends…
January 30th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
KoolKell = Al Davis
Think about it…
January 30th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Zymurge -
Was the unknown comic a Saints fan?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
I’m guessing Howie would prefer Chris to end up on the Dolphins or Rams.. He doesn’t exactly have the best relationship with Al Davis, and he probably wouldn’t like Chris going to the Chefs either.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
[unknown] is a standard artist name used at MusicBrainz for indicating where an artist name is lacking or not provided.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Kk must be an artist, Does he like the Blues?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
raiderdogg
Are you secretly snitching to Mr. McDonald about KoolKell and others on this blog. hmmm
You let a 55 year old brother take your man hood and now you are in protective custody for snitching. Oh my God!
January 30th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
That Howie Long article was outstanding. Thanks for the link.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:23 pm
Hey Jerry think is time for another report this is getting crowded!
What’s up, nothing to report??? come on! it’s the Raiders, there is always something to report!
January 30th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
One thing I am not is a snitch. Fact of the matter is I was banned at one point but I know how to work around these kind of things.
I never snitched to Jery MCdonald about anyone. I can handle myself pretty well on my own.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
I was banned at one point but I know how to work around these things.
Hmmm, the court of bloggers opinion will judge you. So for 50% of the bloggers say you’re guilty.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
The only thing I am guilty of is letting you get to me KK. Other bloggers can think of me what they will, that is out of my control. I do think that most people on here have a pretty good idea the kind of person I am.
Take care
January 30th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
You’re toasted buddy!!!
January 30th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I can reveal something to everyone here if you like. I wasn’t going to even say anything but since you brought it up -
When I was banned I sent an email to the admin/Jerry’s email. His response was that someone had e-mailed him SEVERAL times regarding my behavior. He was told repeatedly by one poster on this blog that I was using his name and posting lies about him. I wonder who was sending him e-mails? Would I do that to myself?
Anyway I refuted it with them, they checked my IP Address and sure enough they discovered that I only post under 1 name, RaiderDogg. Boom I was re-instated.
So the real question who is the snitch that started all of this banning and moderation?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
I dont know-Do you want to find out?
January 30th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Im so glad we didnt sign Al Saunders
January 30th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
KK -
I have a pretty good idea who it was that snitched and to be honest I don’t really care anymore.
I have an idea. How about we put all of this nonsense behind us? Is that even a possibilty or do you just want to hate on me for the rest of your days? Life is too short to hate as far as I’m concerned. Plus I am so tired of all of this.
Plus I agree with you, I’m glad Saunders did join the Raiders.
Like I said before, peace between us.
If not, take care.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
I’m glad Saunders didn’t join the Raiders
January 30th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
raiderdogg, Im not KoolKell, I go by unknown. I just want to bring accountability to this blog not friendships.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
I think it’s the newer generation of younger adults. Those of us 30 and older grew up in a time where snitching just was not cool. We were taught to handle our own problems.
I’ve dabbled into middle management at my job a few years ago, and the first thing I noticed, that blew my socks off, is how the 20 somethings would rat to me like crazy, about everything, and everyone! We’re not talking about outcasts looking to exact revenge on bullies; These ARE the bullies. These are the more productive, socially accepted (this would be a co ed work environment) employees.
Tattling is part of our culture today, and it’s here to stay. People are always watching you, and the people in charge will find out everything about you through them. It’s just something you have calibrate yourself around.
At this blog, I have had posts removed. Some for no reason whatsoever. But for the most part, I’ve been allowed to post at will.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Unknown -
Fair enough.
MaddenRaider -
FYI I am 37 years old. I may not be as old as you or I may be older, whatever. I’m with you on that I would NEVER snitch on anyone, even when I was getting stabbed in the back at a video game company that I worked for in LA. So many of my co-workers were much younger than me and they never seem to think twice about screwing me while smiling right in my face. I always attributed it to how it is in LA but the youth factor certainly plays a part.
MaddenRaider -
As I mentioned before I am trying to turn over a new leaf. If I have been an a-hole to you in the past I apologize. Nobody’s perfect and I am certainly a work in progress. I just wanted to put that out there. I’m not trying to be your friend or whatever, I am just trying to be accountable for my past transgressions.
Take care.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I don’t know why I addressed you twice like that. der
January 30th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
MaddenRaider, you made a good point. Someone is always watching. Even the feeble snitches are being watched. They dont last long around real men. They have a lot of explaining to do. MadenRaider continue to speak the truth.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
amen snitchin is not cool…and i’m from the younger generation, i think people need to learn to mind their own, and like you said, handle their own
January 30th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
well I was snitched on by a 55 year old man so I guess age isn’t always a factor.
January 30th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
here are my what if raider hopefuls for the 2008 season
what if higgins can become the deep threat we need?
what if henderson can be the type of under the radar offensive stalwart the broncos seem to continually find in the draft?
what if the raider defense can reward al ryan, and thusly kiffin for keeping the beloved coordinator on board?
i would go into draft and free agent hopefuls, but really, i just hope the guys we pick up and draft turn out to be the best fit for our team and key contributors
January 30th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
I’ve been checking this blog a lot in the last few weeks. For awhile, I was constantly hoping to find new news posted. The last few days, I’ve been checking in hoping to see that there is NO news! No news is good news these days…
January 30th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
# The Truth Revealed Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
MaddenRaider = Mike Shanahan
Bob Marley = Jim Otto
Oakglenn = Rod Woodson
Zymurge = Jarrod Cooper
Dakota = Darren McFadden
Raider Dogg = Lester Hayes
JohnS = John Vella (He thinks the “S’ throws us off)
Raider Dell = George Atkinson
Huff24 = Stuart Schweigert
ATLraider = Mike Vick in jail
Hobs Gnarly = Charles Barkley
K-Rock = Lorenzo Lynch
Acey40Deucey = Jon Ritchie
Saintkaufman = Nappy Kaufman
Once upon a time in the west = Terry McDaniel
(What the heck? I totally got the raw end of that deal. I mean seriously…I’d rather be Mike Vick in jail…I’m sure he can tackle better. You’d think Huff24 would have been obvious. That just hurts. I guess I can be positive and say that his job is better than mine so I shouldn’t mind.)
January 30th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
People snitch to save their own tail. Period. Most people are selfish and are just looking to get by and if it means saving their own hide, they’ll do anything. Life is precious to people now…at least in this country. Killing a man over saying something about his mom has changed.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
RaiderDogg, peace accepted. But I have to forewarn people, I’m not even close to being finished criticizing Al Davis. Until he steps back from football operations, he’s fair game regarding everything football related with this franchise. But hey, I welcome you guys to keep me honest.
Huff, people snitching to save their own tails may be true in regards to crime, etc., but I’m talking about the corporate world. The typical workplace. Snitching is the norm with younger adults today. It wasn’t always that way. There used to be a few busy bodies running around, and we all knew who they were and knew to just hush up when they were around. Today, just about all employees in their 20s are walking pipelines to management. It’s just the way they were brought up.
And, mind you, I learned this while in management a few years ago. I’m not threatened by these little jerks. I show up to work to do my job. But for christ’s sake, I will take a long lunch every now and then, and anyone who goes right to management with that is someone I have a problem with. I’m old school. If you get the job done, and I do, you should be allowed to play a little. That’s the way it always worked up till about a decade ago. Whatever happened to live and let live? Anyhow, looks like Jerry’s got some new stuff. See you guys on the next page.
January 30th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
MaddenRaider Says:
January 30th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
“RaiderDogg, peace accepted. But I have to forewarn people, I’m not even close to being finished criticizing Al Davis. Until he steps back from football operations, he’s fair game regarding everything football related with this franchise. But hey, I welcome you guys to keep me honest.”
All right man, I am happy we are able to get past any previous misunderstandings. As far as Al goes your honesty is all I would expect from you and I for one can appreciate your perspective.
Thanks for being cool.
January 30th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
OT
Duane “Dog” Chapman is on FoxNews right now talking about the fugitive marine. Somebody’s trying to save their own image by being a hero, huh? 3 minutes and he still hasn’t called anyone the N Word. He’s doing well. Developing…
January 30th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
What a love fest in here. You guys are making me all teary eyed.
Can’t we all just go back to fighting? :p
January 30th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
Yeah….when did this Blog turn into a effing soap opera? I know it’s a slow time….but come on! Why do we take everything so personal on here?
February 1st, 2008 at 9:36 am
Whwn Randy says football was not the main priority what he really meant was, Football was not Randy’s Main Priority with the Raiders……oh poor Randy wasn’t happy so he didn’t try to earn his millions..Randy you are supposed to be a pro, a .highly paid pro.If he was a true captain he would have helped Jerry Porter overcome his problems with Art Shell..turns out Jerry Porter showed himself to be the bigger person, and turn his attitude around when Lane came on board, something Randy did not do.I have ten times the respect for porter over Moss(or as I prefer to call him algae)
May 18th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
acchib…
letolibodro…
May 27th, 2009 at 1:09 am
pc world free antivirus
…
symetic antivirus
pc world free antivirus
2005 5bantivirus cillin firewall internet pc security spam
…
May 27th, 2009 at 1:13 am
panda software antivirus online…
before symantec antivirus could be completely installed
panda titanium antivirus 2005 download
ravantivirus online scan
…
May 27th, 2009 at 1:14 am
africas rivers
…
african warrior pictures
africa development government in local role south
history of african american nurses
…
May 29th, 2009 at 8:13 am
asian search engine…
asian gift collectible
asian beautiful face
easianth
…
May 30th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
autocad 2005 serial no…
automotive supplier tool
autoflex auto leasing
bajaj auto india website
…
May 30th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
painting of african landscape…
animals in the african rainforest
ceres juices south africa
african soapstone statue
…
May 30th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
hip hop in africa…
african american singer metal band
african american history month 2005 theme
poorest african country
…
May 30th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
african american bowler…
johanesberg south africa
africa move
legislative capital of south africa
…