It’s all about JaMarcus
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Saturday, July 19th, 2008 at 1:24 pm in Oakland Raiders.
In the days leading up to the first day of training camp, I’ll review the state of the rest of the AFC West and how they match up with the Raiders, as well as all Raiders position groups heading into the first practice on July 24. Today’s entry takes a look at Raiders quarterbacks:
Starter–JaMarcus Russell
Reserves–Andrew Walter, Marques Tuiasosopo, Sam Keller, Jeff Otis
What’s to like
We’ll see how he reacts the first time he forces the ball into coverage during a game, but early indications are that Russell is a calm and poised leader who seems to have already gained the respect of his teammates.
There are no temper tantrums or finger-pointing when things go awry at practice, just a lot of communication and encouragement with his fellow offensive players. While it’s true things can change dramatically in full pads, Russell looks up to being the man of the moment.
In terms of the Raiders offense, there seems to be a widespread belief that Russell is operating something out of his element, that he would be better off as a classic dropback thrower, the better to show off that impressive downfield arm.
I beg to differ.
Russell appears nimble enough in terms of footwork to operate a fairly conservative short passing game, with the added advantage of taking the shot now and then to keep defenses honest. It looks as if Lane Kiffin and Greg Knapp are urging safety first, making sure he takes care of the ball and finds his checkdown receivers.
As he becomes more comfortable, Russell can look for bigger and better things. It’s worth noting that with Darren McFadden around, those routine checkdowns can become big strikes in a hurry.
Walter enters camp with the edge as the backup, and he is the second-best pure passer on the roster behind Russell. He has acquitted himself well as a diplomat despite being the deposed quarterback of the future, and it’s no secret he is waiting for another day and another team.
Tuiasosopo was drafted by the Raiders to run an offensve very similar to the one Kiffin is running now. He appears to be picking things up quickly and exepcts to make a serious challenge to be the backup.
Keller played well enough on a tryout basis and has experience running a passing offense with multiple reads, having done it for Bill Callahan at Nebraska. If the Raiders find a trade partner for Walter, he could find himself as a No. 3 quarterback.
Before transferring to Nebraska, Keller was a loyal backup to Walter at Arizona State. The same could not be said for Rudy Carpenter, who lobbied and campaigned with teammates to oust Keller.
What’s not
Russell left LSU after his junior year, so it’s not as if he comes in with all the playing experience of a Peyton or an Eli Manning. He will make his share of mistakes _ and some will cost the Raiders games.
It’s a tossup whether the Raiders will be good enough defensively to allow them the luxury of playing it safe with Russell, needing to open things up before he’s ready simply to stay in games.
In so doing, the Raiders expose their tackles to pass block on the outside, and that could either force Russell into mistakes or make him put that 270-pound body to the test in terms of taking a beating.
Kiffin has never seemed to warm up to Walter, in part because he’s not a good fit for the bootlegs and rollouts he favors. He also has seen Walter as someone with bad body language when things don’t guy his way.
Tuiasosopo, for all his mobility and ability to interact well with his teammates, has never proven he can be the 60-plus percent passer the offense requires and too often makes the big mistake.
As for Keller, bad luck seems to follow the guy around _ kind of like the franchise he now plays for.
Otis is a camp arm.
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July 19th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Good read… I should still be on that list : (
July 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Wow I finally made it to first! its not all it was cracked up to be.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Heeellllllooooooooo?
July 19th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Good analysis Jerry. One of your better ones.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
El Dirty,
How’s the air up there? lol
July 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
its about 78 in SD its beautiful right now… sitting on the beach smokin a blunt..
July 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
this just in j. porter is already hurt in Jax!
He will miss the entire preseason and probably more.
You just don’t get what you pay for w/ that guy. He is still living off of one good season, and continues to bad mouth the Raiders.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Pass the blunt Dirty
July 19th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
Sure hope JR plays well this year. If he doesn’t we’re in a world of !@#$
July 19th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
JR is a really lucky guy. Outside of Mr. Davis’ itchy trigger finger, he could not have landed in a better situation considering the coaching he is getting. This guy is getting so much attention and deservedly so – the proper kind of coaching and attention may I add. Kiffin seems to have a well thought out vision for things and how he wants to proceed.
Kiffin, Knapp, DeFlippo and now they bring in an apparent QB guru in Hackett. Russell is getting the works.
Jerry – We’ve already seen how Russell reacts after throwing in double coverage. Heck, it can’t get much worse than throwing an INT on the first pass play of the game in your first start ever. But he handle it and handled it well.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
At the end of the day I don’t think this offense will be conservative at all. They’re going to punch you in the mouth via the ground game then look to go deep. If its not there deep then JR will check down to alternate weapons. But even those dump-offs are going to be dangerous with the new armor we’ve got. This may be a very dynamic offense before its all said and done.
However, initially this offense may look conservative as Knapp/DeFlip/and maybe Hackett teach Russell the basics of playing in the NFL. That means a lot of handing off – a lot of short throws and a lot of dumpoffs (i.e. conservative). Nothing wrong with that at all when you’ve got a virtual rookie behind center along with suspect LT/RT positions (they must get assimilated too). But its not going to be your typical conservative. You’ll still see a lot of roll outs etc to get JR out of the pocket, protect the tackles and buy time to go deep.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
EasTcoastRaider Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
this just in j. porter is already hurt in Jax!
He will miss the entire preseason and probably more.
You just don’t get what you pay for w/ that guy. He is still living off of one good season, and continues to bad mouth the Raiders.
From what I’ve heard, it’s a hamstrig injury and he should be out for about 8 weeks! To bad he didn’t go to Denver huh? I guess Al is having his laugh, being his #1 reciever only got his face broken up in the off season and should be healthy for pre and regular season openers…
July 19th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Jerry, Why did you insert that next to last sentence? Your hatred for the Raiders shines again.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Think back to last year as teams were stacking the box w/ 8, sometimes 9, men trying to stop our ground attack. They couldn’t stop us then. What makes you think they can stop us now with these upgrades? But they will try. They have no other alternative but to stack the box. And thats when they’ll force JR to beat them. You better get your popcorn ready because this QB has a laser guided ballistic missile attached to his shoulders.
(These tackles will have to hold up though.)
July 19th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
So that’s an LGBM? Cool.
Dude, there are so many things to look forward to this year. Watching Fargas, Bush and McFadden will be awesome. Fargas is a freakin’ nuthead, Bush is a freakin’ tank and McFadden is a freak!
Jamarcus is gonna have the best seat in the house. Well, until he needs more than 3 secs to throw the ball.
July 19th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Can’t wait until next week. Too long of a span between news here and in the papers. Go Raiders!!!!!!!
July 19th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Many people want to compare Russell to Culpepper (prob b/c of skin color – blind idiots), but I like to compare him to Carson Palmer. Brady and Manning are GRreat QBs, absolutely atop the game. Its their smarts about the game and their support system that put them at the top (you bet your azs’ they both had run games in the early going). But when it comes down to sheer physical talent, I am only in awe when I watch 2 QBs in todays game play: JaMarcus Russell and Carson Palmer. I kid you not, the things I see Palmer do are un-freakin’-believable! This guy could be one of the if not the greatest QB to ever suit up.
Sadly for Palmer though, the team around him is not that great (no run game to speak of – just WRs who run long as routes with tackles who are good but not that great to hold the line for that long – and a piss poor defense always putting the team in a bind). So all the pressure is on him and he’s passing All The Time! Not a good recipe for success.
JR, on the other hand, is getting the proper support system around him: personnel, coaching and playcalling. Hopefully he can be what Palmer is not (insofar) and ascend to the pinnacle of this profession as one of the greatest.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Man our team is so better off than last year. We are going to shock the league and that’s not the blunt talking lol
RAIDER NATION 4 LIFE!!!
July 19th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Well, here goes, on the issues of mention. JaMarcus…he’ll be his own man, with a ‘head on his shoulders’. I believe he’s a great talent, and even though Kiffin, made a mistake last year, of not ‘picking Culpepper’ as the starter of McCown, I do believe hes’ been good for Russell, that’ll bring dividends sooner than later, for the RAIDERS. As for the division, the RAIDERS have as good a chance as ‘taking it’ as anyone. The concensious, seems to be that the players are re-establishing attitude, in part from Coach Gables work with the O-Line and in part with the ‘new coverage men–FS, DBs’, that the talent exists across the board to become, once again, the established power there, dispite the namesayers(sp) to the contrary. The only real question being the DL…lets’ see if the ‘fringe guys’ they’ve brought over, with opportunities to make a difference with Da RAIDERS, will spark play and attitude that’ll inspire the others.
For the offense…’WR Walker’, hmmmm, time-will-tell/jury out…where’s the ‘guys head’, he’s done nothing yet!!! I like Carter, I like HIGGINS(resurgence of potential and off season work and focus, AND, I like this WATKINS pick-up) whom is a ‘Branch Potential…either he or Higgins’!!
Then guys…as much as we liked Gruden, and he did draft Porter, he held the reigns too tight…look what Callahan did by ‘lightening up’ in his 1st year, and PORTER started being a ‘talent’…I don’t blame the guy for frustrations. As he has said, when hes’ had coaches that have ‘just coached with focus’, and ‘treated them like athletes and men’ with respect, none of the coaches have had a problem, nor he, and Gannon was on his side.
I mean, come on, where’d SHELLs’ brain go, and Walsh, unfortunately didn’t/doesn’t have a clue, and had no business being back in the NFL, nor did coach Shell(a real shell of the coach he had been before), so not PORTER’ll show his potential, if he’s healthy.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
In terms of the Raiders offense, there seems to be a widespread belief that Russell is operating something out of his element, that he would be better off as a classic dropback thrower, the better to show off that impressive downfield arm.
I beg to differ.
____________________________________________
Well said, Jerry!
July 19th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
We’ve seen how Russell reacts when he forces a pass into coverage — recall that awful throw from the right sideline across the field in Jacksonville? That was a throw not dramatically out of character for Russell in his first start. We saw how he handled that, and how much better he played against the much more aggressive D of the Bolts the following week.
There are going to be some guys wide open deep — especially, I think, Drew Carter — because the safeties are going to cheating up to stop the run. If we ran the ball as well as we did last year with Fargas, Rhodes and Jordan, how much better will we run it with Fargas, McFadden and Bush.
And let’s not forget how smart a QB Russell seems to be. The O is not something to worry about this year, not compared with the D.
Peace.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Actually Terrapin the main problem with Carson Palmer is not even the team around him, it’s the organization around him. After losing for the 6th straight season the Cinncinatti press asked team President Mike Brown what he would do to improve the team. Brown responded, “I couldn’t be happier. We’re turning a profit.” Clearly Brown doesn’t give a flying fook about winning. That’s why players like Chad Johnson want out. Players and fans may not like how things are run around here but at least the organization tries to win.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Good analysis, Jerry.
I agree that, at this stage in his development, JR is better in the high-percentage, low-risk system that Lane and Greg are looking to operate. If we can establish the run and force opponents to bring 8 men into the box, that leaves JR with some man-to-man match-ups down field to exploit. He will not be trying to force the ball or counter a deep Tampa2 zone. His arm will be some a selective weapon, used when best to our advantage and not over-played.
AW is finished as far as the Raiders are concerned. He doesn’t fit the system, he doesn’t have the coaches confidence and needs to be moved. Not entirely his fault, but we can’t kid ourselves that he has a future here.
Tui is not a serious option. He doesn’t have the arm strength or the leadership to be an effective back-up. A good college QB, not good enough for the Pros.
Keller has potential. He needs time and confidence, but he has the fundamentals to make a good long-term back-up for JR.
I would trade AW for a 6th/7th, cut Tui and go after a better back-up option. Chris Simms is an obvious possibility. Rex Grossman would be an even better option. If neither is available and no alternatives are cut from camps elsewhere, I still think that Byron Leftwich is worth a look. I know he has technical problems, but is anybody seriously suggesting that AW or Tui are better than Leftwich?
Russell, Grossman and Keller would be great. Russell, Leftwich and Keller would be very reasonable. Russell, AW and Tui is just plain inadequate.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
RIPDB, well said. Russell seems to learn quickly from his mistakes. Remember the screen pass that got picked on the first play of the game against SD?? You don’t see too many Interior Defensive Linemen that can get a hand on a ball, tip it and catch it in college. Welcome to the NFL son. He’s going to learn how good these athletes in this league really are. And he’s going to learn fast.
One of the major problems with the defense last year was how poorly the offense played. The O is going to be nite and day better this year. Nite and day better.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Nice analysis Scottish. For $20mm Daunte Culpepper would rather be on a party boat with skanks than put in 2 minutes of extra work. And Leftwich is he watches even less tape than Daunte.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Oaky, but Leftwich has serious game-time experience – something AW and Tui both lack. He has good short range accuracy and he is mobile. He struggles to go deep against good coverage and gets frustrated too easily. But he does have talent and he is desperate to prove himself.
If JR goes down, we want somebody who can step onto the field and run this offense. AW and Tui don’t have the presence or ability to do that. Leftwich won’t win us a SuperBowl, but he is good enough to keep us competitive.
And he would sign for the minimum!
July 19th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Jerry, are you trying to say JaMarcus didn’t force any in his short time last year? We know how he will react to that.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Honestly Scottish I think the organization would rather have someone who puts in a ton of work, than someone like Leftwich who is gonna screw around, and not be a solid example for Jam.
Jam has tremdous work ethic and Jam WANTS TO BE GREAT. He really does, which helps. Gannon was a perfect example of a guy with solid talent that put a ton of extra work in and became a league MVP. When Gruden drafted Tui he told Tui to do EVERYTHING Gannon does. Follow Rich like your his new puppy. Well, Tui really didn’t like being there watching film at 7am. One guy was a league MVP, one guy is barely holding on in the league.
Lastly, when you combine excellent talent (Peyton, Jamarcus) with lots of extra film work, (Peyton, Brady, Jamarcus) you have Hall of Famers.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Changing tack, I was a bit surprised by the decision to cut Jonathan Palmer. I had heard reports that he was doing okay.
I guess that means that Cable thinks Seth Wand and Mark Wilson are better options. I think one or both of them could make the roster – and we could certainly do with some depth at OT.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
did someone call the meeting to disorder???
July 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Oaky, I agree that Leftwich has question marks against his work-ethic, but he got abandoned very quickly by his two previous coaches.
Rex is my preferred choice. He took the Bears to the SuperBowl and his stats are much better than the Illinois public would credit. Nobody can doubt his work-ethic or his guts and I think he could run a Kiffin-style offense very effectively.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Pete, OakGlenn and I are launching a two-man campaign to return this blog to past glories – by focusing on football and not the nonsense that has surfaced too frequently over past weeks.
Camp starts next week and this Blogs ’starters’ are back in action.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
finally!
the seahawks game form ‘87 from the other night is finally on its way down =)
July 19th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Pete is always welcome here.
Scottish Raider Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Oaky, I agree that Leftwich has question marks against his work-ethic, but he got abandoned very quickly by his two previous coaches.
Scottish, Now you know why. The coaching staff asked him to do a few things that for $5mm year, he didn’t want to do. Last guy here that got tons of $$$$ a year to do the bare minimum, (J. Porter) got his ass sent out by the current coaching staff. I can’t wait to see how well Porter gets on with Jack DelRio. Del Rio is not going to put up with Porters horsesh**.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Terrapin – My brother (Cowboys fan) and I compare Carson Palmer to Troy Aikman. Hes big and strong and is very accurate. Aikman was able to win 3 Superbowls because he had an immense amount of talent around him as well as coaching so that is the big difference. If you were to put Palmer on a team like the 90’s Cowboys, you would probably have the same results.
I’m not quite sure you can really compare JR to anybody which is something I like. He is in a league of his own in terms of size and talent. I didn’t believe in him when we drafted him but I’ve warmed up to him because I believe in the coaching staff and what they have been able to accomplish with him. My only concern about hiring Hackett is whether we have too many people talking in JR’s ear. The worst thing we can do is confuse him with too many different advice tactics so hopefully everyone has an individual job in this.
It kind of reminds me of when we had Shell/Slater/Eatman trying to teach the offensive line. Look what happened to them.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Huff24…
again, thanks for the ‘heads-up’..
July 19th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
i got some football stuff… i got some good stuff…
as i see things… we will be running the ball, like, 40-45 times a game… 200+ yards per game will be the norm…
we will have 3 rushers with a thousand yards…
Russell will be lucky to pass for more than two thousand yards… not because he can’t… but because the game plan won’t call for it… look for the averages to be 20-25 passes a game… 13-15 completions for a hundred yeard average…
the O line this year is built for running… passing will be incidental… mostly to keep Jam’s arm from rusting…
in my mind there is only one concern… and that is the middle of our defensive line… if they cannot stop the run… we lose… if they can… we win…
it really is as simple as that…
July 19th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Florida Pete…
13-16 then would be the mark, because Kiffin wants him at 65% completage (?!if that is a word!?)
July 19th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Actually Pete, the middle of our defensive line is designed to take on blockers and let the linebackers and strong safety come in and clean up. If the interior linemen get blown off the ball, or can’t shed blocks, it’s going to be a long season. If you watch our guys get pushed back 4 yards off the ball like they did alot last season and our linebackers over puruse, just do what the casual fan does: Blame Ryan and the coaching staff.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
puruse: should have been over pursue.
July 19th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
you guys seem to have it all figured out, and the future sounds glorious. there’s only one question that needs asking…WHO’S GOING TO BLOCK?????????????
July 19th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Actually the Bears defense took Rex to the Super Bowl but hey this is just a blog so accuracy is not necessary!
“Rex is my preferred choice. He took the Bears to the SuperBowl and his stats are much better than the Illinois public would credit. Nobody can doubt his work-ethic or his guts and I think he could run a Kiffin-style offense very effectively”
July 19th, 2008 at 5:40 pm
I guess Kiffin is just a casual fan like myself that wanted Rob Ryan fired.
lol
July 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Jerry, have you spent 1 minute in Alameda watching practice or is this word of mouth reporting ?
July 19th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
this is written prior to the practice… IMO
July 19th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Jerry wrote this at the senior bowl when he was holding down the elevator waiting for Kiffin.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
I think we’ve already seen how Russel will react to tossing up a int. early in a game last game of last season against the Chargers, and he seemed to hang in there and have a descent game even though we lost, he ended up with OK numbers, indicating he shook it off and stayed poised and fought through it.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Well, everybody on this blog can breath easier. Scottish & OakGlenn are going to return this blog back to past glory! Nothing but FOOTBALL!
One problem Scottish. Nobody eggs on the trolls more than your boy OakGlenn.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Did it just get stupider in here?? Yup. The clown showed up.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I care less about how JR reacts to throwing an INT as how he reacts when a defender blows through our O-line and cleans his clock. I can still see that play against SD when Simms got smoked and JR got his bell rung!
July 19th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
OakGlenn stick to football like your boy Scottish suggested. Name calling and having 14 different aliases are not FOOTBALL!
U dig?
July 19th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Oakglenn
watch you mouth, go wash it and come again =)
July 19th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
There are two posters who as soon as they come in here there are problems. Obviously MR and secondarily mistaclown.
Now that MR has not shown his 9er kissing face around here it’s been nice.
To Wit:
# Mistabrown Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Jerry, have you spent 1 minute in Alameda watching practice or is this word of mouth reporting ?
# Mistabrown Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Jerry wrote this at the senior bowl when he was holding down the elevator waiting for Kiffin.
2 shots at Jerry and me and one at Scottish. And mistaclown has been here what two minutes??? You pissed off that you failed your anger management classes clown??
July 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
If we have the success we expect running the ball, our defense will look much better. Less time on the field and perhaps a lead that makes the opponents offense a little more predictable. If the running game struggles our defensive line, especially the takles will be exposed and exploited.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Scottish, only 2 hours and 3 minutes went by before your partner resorted to “nonsense” as you call it!
What a shame..
July 19th, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Does anyone else want to discuss football?
July 19th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
My post are so good they get “reposted” almost immediately.
lol
John Elways teeth, football has not begun. Training camp opens soon. There is no football to discuss…
Well ok, how do you feel about Rex Grossman wearing the silver & black John ?
July 19th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
We had great success running the ball last year and our defense still sucked John. Nothing will mask Rob Ryans garbage scheme. We were ranked 31 I think against the run, now what ?
# John Elway’s Teeth Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
If we have the success we expect running the ball, our defense will look much better. Less time on the field and perhaps a lead that makes the opponents offense a little more predictable. If the running game struggles our defensive line, especially the takles will be exposed and exploited.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Rex Grossman sucks
July 19th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
#58
I know it was a rhetorical question..
July 19th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Johns teeth, yo uknow what actually make our defense better?
If they actually showed up and played tackle football. That woul dtake the pressure off Russell to score everytime we have the ball.
The biggest misnomer is our def is good against the pass. However, the Vikings beat us through the air with Tavaris Jackson & without Adrian Peterson. The Bears beat us and they had NO running game at all, the Texans beat us without Ahman Green through the air WITHOUT their star WR Andre Johnson and a BACKUP QB!!!!
Our defense is good at nothing to be very honest but listen to a couple high profile people in this blog they will have you believe otherwise.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
el dirty.. u go to the stargazer on sundays to watch the games???
July 19th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
pund the ball pound the ball!!!.. keep them off balance!!! remember how we used rice as our third down man.. with the short slant passes?? we need that rhythm again!!! but pound the ball .. make establishing the run a primary factor…. with these tools we will have everyone confused…??
July 19th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Very true. A lot of expectations are on Russell and McFadden. It should be an exciting year. I’m ready for some football.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
i don’t want to confuse anybody…
i want to line up and pound it…
Suicide (i mean Fargas) up the middle…
Bush between the tackles…
McFadden anywhere he damn pleases…
July 19th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
i hope chump bailey gets burned so bad!!!!
July 19th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
i hope the center and the qb r on the same page as far aS fumbalitous goes??? we saw a lot of that last year with culpepper???
July 19th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
and i hope randy moss gets his “WIG TWISTED BACK!!!!!!”
July 19th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
AND ENOUGH OF THE PENALTIES ALREADY HUH?? I ALERADY MENTIONED THIS IN ONE OF THE LAST BLOGS… BUT PLEASE STOP THE INSANITY WITH THE PENALTIES!!!!!
July 19th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
If our defense is so bad why were we in so many games against highpowered offenses. Farve’s Packer’s struggled to score until a few flukey t/o’s assisted them. Peyton Manning struggled ( I don’t care if they were shorthanded, so were we), The only teams that really dominated us were very physical styles with tremendous talent. Incidently those teams dominated everyone they played. Sure we gave up yardage to average backs like Jerry loves to point out. But the only teams that really took it us were dominant teams.
A truely bad defense occasionally gives up 40 or more points. We never did, in fact the most points we gave up defensively were in the 20’s, the offensive t/o’s accounted for any additional poits. Even as bad as our offense has been we rarely got blown-out.
Bad defenses get blown away often, especially if the offense can’t score. An average offense would’ve allowed us to at least be a 500 team. Our defensive stats are IMO due to being in bad situations too damn often and playing from behind 80% of the time. Not to mention having to return to field 4downs after stopping the other team.
We just didn’t play anywhere near what we should’ve and with added talent I think we should be in top half of the league defensively. That’s my opinion, if I’m wrong Im sure yu’ll let me know, wont you Mista?
July 19th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
ITS BAD ENOUGH THE ZEBRAS ALONG WITH THE REST OF THE ORGANIZATION IS AGAINST US!!!” ITS THE RAIDERS AGAINST THE WORLD!!!!”
July 19th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I AGREE BLACKHOLE…. IHONESTLY THOUGHT WE WERE GONNA PULL IT OFF BEATING THE COLTS… THAT WOULDVE BEEN LOVELY AND ON ESPN THAT NIGHT…. THE ONLY GAME I ACTUALLY TURNED OFF AND WAS TOTALLY DISGUSTED WITH WAS THE JAGUARS GAME… MAN THAT GAME KILLED US!! THE WORST OF THE SEASON….
July 19th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Our running game was very effective, however we turned the ball over too often to benefit from it. We also couldn’t score in key situations forcing a tired defense back on the field to get victimized.
You see guy’s winning games is all about making plays when they need to be made. Stats don’t mean a hill of beans to me if you don’t give me the circumstances to which they were achieved or brought about those stats. You can have 2 defensive units with the same stats, for very different reasons.
Jerry likes to roll out stats thinking they mean something, which they do but it’s up fo interpretation.
If you look at Kenny Stabler stats and compare them to Montana’s you’d laugh, thinking Kenny was a terrible QB. Well with some investigation of circumstances you’ll find that they were very clse in talent leadership, winning attitude and veryworthy of being compared to one another. Kenny was a prototypical WCO QB without the WCO. No dinks and dunks but attack and make bigtime plays in bigtime situations and NO ONE did it better. But their stats will suggest something very different.
So it is with our defense, it’s easy to say we suck and such because quite frankly we did, but for very different reasons.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
The Indian-crapolis Colts were the third highest scoring team in the league last year. All Manning could muster was one TD and 2 FG’s. 13 lame points against our defense. Oh yeah, and a 2 point conversion.
GB was 2nd in total offense and all Favre could muster was 7 points in the first half. We were riddled with no offense, turnovers and special teams mistakes in those games. We lost back to back games 12-10 and 13-9. But of course if you are drunk and passed out by half time, all you see is the final score next day in the papers and don’t know what happened in the actual game.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Therein lies the problem with a lot of Raider fans. Our passion for this team is also our worse enemy. We get so tied up in the endresult. It becomes “everybody sucks”!! And half of them have no clue what happened.
The defense sucks, Kiffin sucks!, Ryan sucks!
We’re all very hardcore fans, but rarely do we see what is transpiring. This team is not that far, and I’m not saying that for Go Raiders!! hype I believe it. Yeah! we need to continue to add talent in the obvious areas, but so does everyone else. No team is perfect. We can compete.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:26 pm
BHP, I think you are exactly right. I don’t think we are that far off either. I think it is time to unite behind this QB, this coach and this team, and win a few a games. Once we win a few games, watch the eff out.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
WORD!!
July 19th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Kiffin Sucks.
Just Win Baby.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:47 pm
I know Oak, I’ve said it before they’re really fans of an idea. Almost an occult. But this is real and it’s very tough to get done, but like I’ve also said, we do have the blueprint. And we’ll get there.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Oh we’ll get there all right. And Priest, I’ll see ya there!!
July 19th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
The biggest story/saga of last year was finding a qb who was accurate and moble. i.e. we didn’t have one. that can be the key to our offense and barring interceptions which micky through quite a few of anyway we should be able to win many more games.. Hopefully between all the guys we have at d-line it can be passable, that is all it has to be to again be a huge improvement.. Look for us to sign nnamdi longterm next year and compete for it all barring head coaching change
July 19th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
JRuss will be one of the greats! Not at first though… Give Al some damn credit already – everyone likes to bash him but JRuss and Coach Kiff with a running game // check down capability is a great way to start his career. Yes, we need to improve the tackle positions to compete for championships but we’ve certainly taken the first step!
Good Job Al!
July 19th, 2008 at 10:10 pm
bhp: jacksonville blew us out in the first 10min of the game. they were 11-5! barely beat pitt in the playoffs before getting spanked by NE.
GB blew us out. I remember.. because i had a GB fan in my house. It was over soon and i’m an optimist! SD beat our asses twice. That’s off the top of my head 4 dismal losses. a good (not great) should not lose a game in the first half period, let alone 4 of them. I guess people would talk about 8 good losses. That’s a losers mentality. you win or you lose.. get blown out is disgraceful. it shouldn’t and can’t happen. the better teams don’t get blown out unless it’s a freak. I don’t think we’re that far off but you have to see we weren’t even close last year. However, almost 1/3 of the roster is new this year. That’s the bright spot.
also, someone asked who is blocking? we gave up 72 sacks in 06 and 41 in 07. you tell me, is that a big difference? i know people like names in the fantasy football time but … i like results and facts. One more… we went from 32nd to 6th in rushing… hmmmm did we all of sudden have great running backs????? i think the line improved incredibally.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
SD was 11-5… or 9-5 w/o playing us… not that dominating
July 19th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
I love JRock. The guy has everything you could possibly want in a QB. Its like someone made him ona MAdden game. Giving him DMC was paramount. I realize that now.
My only concern is LT, but I keep thinkin Cable knows what he is doing.
My other concern is his WRs. Walker is an unknown commodity and I honestly dont know much about Carter. Curry should show up, but he doesnt scare defenses. Hopefully one of the other WRs (ie Higgins) shows up this year.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Jim, GB game was over soon?? I have it on DVR. The halftime score was tied. 7 to 7 and they got some cheap turnovers and a kick return for a TD which put the game out of reach. Minn and Jax really dominated us and they did it to everyone. Jax beat Pitts 3 times last year and in the playoffs was in Pitts they ran all over Pitt.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Again our worst problem has been our own inability to put points on the board against anyone. We just haven’t had the ability get on top of an opponent for any extended period of time.
If that changes and we can make teams chase us for change, I can almost gaurantee that this defense will make some plays. The talent is there, trust me.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
BHP,
Good point about the defense. I honestly dont think that our D was that bad. We were honestly in every game. I agree with Kiff in that we always seemed to give up the big run play. I think the addition of Gibril Wilson will cut down on the big run plays.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Jacksonville was a bad game. Teams are going to have bad games. That was a bad game. We didn’t seem prepared for the physical beating they inflicted on us out of the gate.
Both San Diego games were closer than the score. Remember we played terribly all the first half in San Diego, had the ball at their one yard line with a minute to go in the half, and Culpepper got sacked, and then fumbled, or something stupid. But that is inexperience with the coaching staff and the team. You won’t see that this year. Theoretically.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:35 pm
The Raiders rolled over in Jacksonville.
Jacksonville did not “Do that to everyone.”
Don’t try to put perfume on a pig.
That effort was totally unacceptable.
Just Win Baby.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
I would’ve preferred a DE named Long. But DMC is a tremendous weapon, having him gives big play capability. That can be huge but the key as Jerry’s blog says, is Russell getting his game on. When that happens,.. just read Oak’s post#76 and you’ll get my drift.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Name on team that stopped Jax running game.
Maybe I’m wrong but isn’t Jax and Minn the top running teams in the league??
I’m not making excuses we were terrible but those two are two of the very best at it.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Face facts: The Raiders $ucked last year. 4-12.
It doesn’t matter. They have a completely different team this year. Last year was last year. With any luck the Raiders will have a “Celtic like” transformation with all of Al’s new editions.
As always, it’s all about THIS YEAR.
Just Win Baby.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Yeah!! that says it all, we sucked last year.
Very descriptive. … anything else?
July 19th, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Adios! Fire Kiffin summed it up nicely.
July 19th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
why do i get the feeling Fire Kiffin is just MR trying to get Raider fans to fight with each other??
July 20th, 2008 at 12:26 am
Face it. It’s so easy.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:30 am
BHP, did we not suck last year? Did we not suck the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that? What more description do you need?
July 20th, 2008 at 12:33 am
The fact that u say ur a fan. Mr. what do youlike about the Raiders?
July 20th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Blackholepriest Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
“Name one team that stopped Jax running game.”
……………
Name one team that’s 19-61 in the last 5 years.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Dirty, what do you like about the Raiders?
July 20th, 2008 at 12:37 am
Oakglenn Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Jacksonville was a bad game.
……………
Well, thanks for that fascinating nugget of wisdom to explain Jax demolishing us, Oak. Now, explain the other 61 losses in the last 5 years.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:41 am
BHP, if you’re still here in the fall you’re going to be a f’n basket case. I promise you, you’re going to get taken to pieces for your delusional predictions.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:41 am
The aura, the legacy, who Al Davis is, going to the games with my pops, the fact that no matter how good or bad they are always the villian the big bully… and they r not afraid to invest in the team… I can keep going.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:43 am
BHP today: “We’ve got the blueprint. Trust me!”
BHP in October: “You guys aren’t real fans. Real fans don’t pile on their team just because they’re losing. Even at 2-6, I still have faith! James Lofton is a proven winner and he’ll pick up the pieces Lame Kiffin left us with! I believe!”.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:45 am
U would rather have Lofton as coach than Kiffin?
July 20th, 2008 at 12:48 am
Dirty, what aura? Losing?
What legacy? Losing?
What about who Al Davis is? An owner who has a losing record in the past 20 years? An owner who’s 19-61 in the past 5 years?
Going to games with your pops? Fine. But that’s about spending time with your pops. You guys could go fishing too.
The Raiders are the bully? Are you nuts? Who are the Raiders bullying? When you’re 19-61, you’re not the bully. You’re the guy who’s stuffed in a locker, with his underwear pulled over his head.
I agree, they aren’t afraid to invest in the team. But what’s the point in that if you don’t invest smartly? Javon Walker? Know why Denver didn’t offer him a dime? He’s injury prone, overrated talent wise and is a head case, which we already know all too well, don’t we? That champagne Javon sprayed is worth more than he is.
Oh, by all means…. KEEP GOING!! I could use the laugh.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:10 am
We had a very good team just 5 yrs ago! We are young with extremely good pieces on our roster. Our whole secondary, Howard, Kirk, McFadden, Bush, Curry, Miller, J-Mac, O’Niel, Curry, Burgess, Carter, Richardson and maybe Javon he is suspect we will see I also think our DT will do better than people saw last year. Our schedule will is the easiest we have had in those 5 yrs since we fell apart. 9-6 is extremely possible… U might be eating ur words come Dec.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:22 am
yes, 5 years ago, Dirty…., Do you honestly see the Gruden team all over again? Do you honestly see a resemblance of Rich Gannon in JaMarcus Russell? Do you honestly see Tim Brown and Jerry Rice lining up as receivers? Do you honestly see Charlie Garner at HB? If you want to be optimistic about this rag team team we have now suit yourself. But don’t shortchange your own intelligence and use Al’s 2002 success to justify this mess today. You know Gruden built that team. Don’t be crazy like Oakglenn.
9-7? LOL. I see. You’re all optimism. Let me know when you want to use your brain when discussing this team, and we’ll talk. I have a link to Raiders.com. I don’t need you to blow smoke up my ass. At least they have pictures of cheerleaders there. Stop wasting my time, kid.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:57 am
BHP’s comments on the defense are pretty true. Yeah they gave up a lot of yards on the ground and did not hold on to all the leads. But, because our offense could not muster a constant preasure on other teams, it was difficult for our defense to hold out constantly.
The truth of the matter is that we need to learn how to close out games and pull off big plays when we need them. Just like The Snake did. His stats are pretty lousy when you compare them to great QB’s. However, when the chips were down he came through!
And Jacksonville is a dominant physical team and we don’t match up well against those types of teams. They pounded it down our throat, but they did that with just about everybody. This is a fact.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:00 am
MR ..tell us something new and insightful about today’s topic instead of talking about the last 5 years and Gruden over and over again.
And I am not one of the guys who is always against you. I’m neutral.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:13 am
We need to score touchdowns instead of FG’s I believe McFadden and Bush will help us in that regard.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:26 am
tkawakami@mercurynews.com
can I get a lil help from the NATION!! This clown keeps saying the stupidest crapolla about our RAIDERS in my local fish-wrap
July 20th, 2008 at 4:29 am
Kiffin is the Messiah, better get used to it…
July 20th, 2008 at 4:36 am
Sup LMN
hope your rite!!!
I tried to get you on the list as most name police!! It appears I have no juice wit the powers that be the list makerz.. (=
July 20th, 2008 at 4:49 am
ohh what list?
July 20th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Gruden couldn’t build a block with legos.
July 20th, 2008 at 4:59 am
Last thread comment & 7 its kinda funny
July 20th, 2008 at 5:01 am
MR likes to look at cheerleaders on raiders.com? I wonder what he is doing with his other hand when he posts.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:10 am
it was also kinda wrong… Tommy Trojan was spot on the Draft, but thats it…. COW, Coach Craig or Terrapin is way more knowledgeable.. and JediRaider.. come on man, that list wan’t even close to reality…
July 20th, 2008 at 5:12 am
Jimmy Johnson on Gruden “I’d fire John Gruden the gerneral manager and keep John Gruden the coach.”
July 20th, 2008 at 5:17 am
agreed but it was funny!!! IMO
July 20th, 2008 at 5:17 am
Johnny…
then Jimmy is halfway to the solution
July 20th, 2008 at 5:18 am
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/47959
July 20th, 2008 at 5:21 am
http://www.sptimes.com/2008/01/12/Bucs/Coach_takes_parting_s.shtml
July 20th, 2008 at 5:25 am
I get the feeling from Tampa and its fans Gruden has ruined this team for the foreseeable future and Gruden won’t be employed if he does not produce a playoff win this year. He totally dismantled a Superbowl winning team, what a MoRon.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:48 am
http://www.sportsline.com/mcc/messages/thread/9415456
July 20th, 2008 at 5:59 am
nice link Johnny
July 20th, 2008 at 6:12 am
Lets talk Tight Ends…
this is how I think/hope the depth will be..
TE 80 Zach Miller 6-5 255
TE 87 Fred Wakefield 6-7 295
WR 81 Marcel Reece 6-3 240
Miller is of course the starter, last year I was sure Stewart would kick Wakefield of the field… That said Wakefield is a great pure blocking TE and we will need such a guy… I really like Reece, he is faster than Madsen but Madsen is taller (a project I used to like a lot). With McFadden and Bush on the team, snaps going Madsens way is very limited, I would keep Reece as a receiving TE, Wakefield as a blocking TE and Miller as the starter who can do both…
TE 85 John Madsen 6-5 240
TE 86 Tony Stewart 6-5 260
So if Steward or Madsen should make the team it would be because they did something great on Special Team at practice =)
July 20th, 2008 at 6:19 am
First?
Kiff has the right plan for JR. Keep it simple and let him grow in to the role. As with Cutler he is there to stop defences from stuffing the box.
In 09 he’ll be a full powered QB who can rip teams apart.
July 20th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Madsen has great hands should be our #2 guy
Wakefield’s knee is suspect but an excelent blocker
Stewart is a ST guy
rookies
wagner 43 blocker trying to earn a spot
strong 85 another converted WR trying to fit in
July 20th, 2008 at 6:30 am
408…
but why waste a roster on Madsen, when we all know he wont wee the field? situation he might see the ball when you compare to last year is not there anymore, those throws will go to McFadden or Bush… I dont think there will be any #2 guy moments/situations in ‘08
The reason I say Reece; he is fast, can block better than Madsen. For what I can read, his hands is just as good as Madsens…
July 20th, 2008 at 6:33 am
a roster spot on madsen… even =)
July 20th, 2008 at 6:40 am
point taken but what if Wakefield’s knee isnt good to go? Do you think madsen has any trade value? If so who would you like to see us hold on to? and isnt madsen a Kiffin guy?
July 20th, 2008 at 6:53 am
LMN, better luck next year.
Don’t take it so bad. You came in a close second to Scottish for favorite euro, and you also ran a close second to Oakglenn for LOWEST FOOTBALL IQ.
Raider on!
July 20th, 2008 at 7:03 am
The List…
LOL well I voted for Scottish…
Lowest football IW, I dont think so… I’m as stupid as some of your friends who thinks Grady Jackson and Daunte Culpepper is the answer… LOL talk about low IQ in general!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 7:05 am
408…
I think Madsen and Lamont battles for lowest trade value…
July 20th, 2008 at 7:07 am
Well
So long Suckers!!! (as Homer would say)
you can have it, the new season(national) starts in a few seconds…. finally a fix that last more than a day =)
*ahhhhhh*
July 20th, 2008 at 7:10 am
yo the list what about COW
July 20th, 2008 at 7:56 am
—”Free agent S Greg Wesley will visit the Raiders on Sunday, according to NFL Network’s Adam Schefter.
Al Davis loves him some ex-Chiefs and Wesley could replace Jarrod Cooper as Oakland’s third safety or on special teams. If Wesley, 30, intends to start on defense however, the Raiders wouldn’t be an ideal landing spot.”—
I have no problem losing J cooper…
July 20th, 2008 at 8:03 am
# Dakota Says:
July 18th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Sign Greg Wesley…we need depth at safety.
but he probably thinks he can still be a starter…
__
# La Milicia Negra Says:
July 18th, 2008 at 6:49 am
Dakota…
if we sign Greg Wesley, then our fan favorites Jarod Cooper and Hiram Eugene, should be canned… which I don’t have any problem with, but the way they cut him, makes me think KC knows he have had his fingers in some kind of cookie jar…
July 20th, 2008 at 8:04 am
oh well… second half..
July 20th, 2008 at 8:23 am
BHP, Yes of course i’ll let you know. This defense is good at nothing. Teams can pass or run on us they just choose to run on us more than pass.
The Texans came in with a backup QB, their star WR out, starting RB out and beat us in our own backyard. Rob Ryan doesn’t have his unit ready to play on Sundays, there are flashes of good things but all in all its pathetic really.
Because we were in games at halftime is your argument. Last time I checked there are 4 quarters and the final score is what it is but you pretty it up all you want. Running a man 2 man 99% of the time is a recipe for disaster in todays NFL.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Well said BHP. So we do agree afterall. Im not sure if you finally came around to reality or if this was a slip..
# Blackholepriest Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
So it is with our defense, it’s easy to say we suck and such because quite frankly we did, but for very different reasons.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:34 am
Good Morning
http://pics.hollywoodrag.com/uploads2/serenawilliams1.jpg
July 20th, 2008 at 8:41 am
DAAAAAAAAMN thanx 4 that 1 Mista!! I luv me a woman with a big ol’ booty
July 20th, 2008 at 8:43 am
My pressure
July 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Greg Wesley would be a nice pickup, great insurance should Gibril or Huff go down or in case Huff struggles at FS.
Wesley and Wilson have started at both S spots and Huff should be able to do it, it would be nice to have that kind of versatility at the position.
Wesley just turned 30, he´s a bigger player than Huff and Wilson at 6′2 208 and has nice ball skills too with 29 int´s during his 7 year run as a starter.
Read that Denver offered a 4th rounder for him last season but KC didn´t want him in the Division.
Unless Hiram Eugene has a much better camp than Jarrod Cooper, I would keep Cooper, it´s not like Eugene is a young kid with great potential, he´ll be 28 already this year, just 2 years younger than Wesley.
Still, I think it won´t be easy to sign Wesley, he should have some options.
July 20th, 2008 at 8:57 am
BHP, we never gave up more than 20 points? BHP, you are alot like OakGlenn you say things that are 100% false as if nobody here has access to facts. Did you completely forget about game 1 in 2007.
Detroit 36-21.
Ok lets move on past game 1..
GB 38 – Oak 7
This wasnt a blowout huh? Ok
Jacksonville 49 – Oak 11
*Blowout*
San Diego 30 – Oak 17
*never more than 20 points* eh BHP ?
BHP, you said we never gave up more than 20 points! How do you doit man? Seriously how do you get on here much like OakGlenn speaking down to people as if you are some higher level of fan with more knowledge completely blowing smoke out your a$$ ?
# Blackholepriest Says:
July 19th, 2008 at 8:44 pm
A truely bad defense occasionally gives up 40 or more points. We never did, in fact the most points we gave up defensively were in the 20’s, the offensive t/o’s accounted for any additional poits. Even as bad as our offense has been we rarely got blown-out.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Bob Marley
My ideal situation; get greg Wesley to be backup for both Huff and Wilson… cut Jarrod and Eugene, elevate Tyvon Branch to backup, and let him be a KR and be on ST in general..
and we all know, that all AFC west players dreamed as a child of once to become a raider…
July 20th, 2008 at 9:07 am
BHP: YOu are a true optimist. Watch the game again (GB). it was 14-7 at half. GB doubled our first downs and yards. We were LUCKY to only be down 14-7. I can’t believe you used special teams and turnovers as an excuse because that’s what bad teams… a lot.
Pittsburgh lost to az. They were a weak 10-6 (10-7 if you count the playoffs).
Giving up points isn’t only way to judge a defense. How many 3 and outs when we needed it? How many big stops? We never made teams become more aggressive …because they didn’t need to. If we force them to become more aggressive then we can get some turnovers… maybe Huff can make some plays if he doesn’t have to cover a much bigger TE for 3 minutes. Maybe if we stop the rush, put a little pressure on the qb then the guys we brought in can make plays. They’re not going to make plays if they’re covering their guys all over the field all game (no pass rush). They can’t make plays (picks anyway) if they always have to be in the box or “guessing” run. The defense was horrible last year and the more threat our offense is could expose the defense more (similar to the difference of the last two years)
July 20th, 2008 at 9:10 am
And OakGlenn is right there with you BHP on #76 & #80 slobbering allover your crank as if Jesus just spoke…
Truly pathetic.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Jim, the score was 38-7. I think calling him just an “optimist” was generous on your part. Who would try and prop up our defense on a 38-7 loss. I know ST was terrible that day but c’mon.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:18 am
Jim, you and I are just a casual fan that doesn’t know which way is up. OakGlenn & BHP are here to tell you what to believe regardless what actually might be true.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Mistabrown…..I agree with you, that being said…
I´m no Rob Ryan fan myself, but a closer look at some of our defeats shows that the blame should not be put entirely on the D, the Offense played a major role too.
In 5 losses vs KC, TENN, HOU, CHI and Indy the Defense gave up an average of 16 points, while the Offense averaged 11.2 points, we had 10 turnovers vs 3 from the opponents.
In theory, when your Defense gives up 16 a game you should win most of those games considering the average NFL team gives up 21.7 a game, but you´re not winning any of them when scoring 11 yourself and losing the turnover battle by a 3 to 1 ratio.
A little more scoring and some improvement by the Defense, not even that much, specially late in games should translate into a few more wins.
I´m sure we´ll score more but the “some improvement” on Defense it´s another story, I´m hoping for the best but prepared for the worst.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Milicia
I would be hesitant to cut Cooper, he´s a leader and has the right attitude to lead the Special Teams units, I´d prefer to keep him one more season while he takes Branch under his wing as his eventual replacement.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Marley,
The defense went hand and hand with the offense. One week, it was the Defense not being able to hold on to a lead in the 4th or the offense not being able to score a stinkin touch down.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:54 am
DBT I agree that it was up and down but the reason our d played well when our O did nothing is because the other teams went conservative.
July 20th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Bob Marley…
155.. yeah, there is just something about Jarrod that ticks me, I somehow just don’t like him, but you’re probably right Branch would learn a lot from Jarrod, but so could Greg Wesley…
July 20th, 2008 at 9:56 am
Marley, just to be clear. Im aware of the offense. Having said that I gave Kiffin a 1 year pass to get things cleaned up after Shell’s disaster. Kiffin made nice strides there. This year I expect the offense to make another leap.
The problem I have with the defense was 10 or 11 returning starters. RR in his 4th year etc etc etc. Vanilla defense that puts no pressure on the qb, doesnt blitz, doesnt stop the pass or run. Huge dissapointment!
July 20th, 2008 at 9:56 am
The thing that excites me about this year is that Russell has McFadden. DMac will get Russell out of ALOT of jams this year with little dumpoffs to the flats. I love Fargas, don’t get me wrong, but Fargas is no threat catching the ball and Russell sounds to be light years ahead of where he was last year.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I would NOT cut Cooper. That guy has really been the only guy to play with heart (besides Fargas) on an otherwise laughing stock of a team. Cooper is a leader and a gamer. That guy comes to play every Sunday.
Brown,
The thing about our D is…we don’t blitz enough. I’m perfectly fine with play 24/7 Man coverage because we have the players to do it…we just need to utilize our your stallion LB’s.
If you look at it, our defense hinges on Burgess’ productivity. Last year he had 8 sacks(which is not bad) but it’s nothing close to his potential. Look at the numbers. The years Burgess had monster years, we were able to thrive off it defensively. Our defense is the best when Burgess is running wild.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:06 am
I wouldnt cut Cooper either unless he isnt 100% after his injury.
If you play man 2 man and dont get pressure with your front 4 and dont blitz to compensate for your lack of pressure you have 11 guys out there hung out to dry. Its a foolish scheme.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Love what Jamarcus brings to the team. I think his leadership will be the hot topic of the season. I also think this team is closer than most of us here think.
i can’t freakin’ wait for camp to start.
Go Raiders!
July 20th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Mista…post 159
Again, totally agree, I wasn´t bashing Kiffin´s Offense, he did what he could with some of the worst play in the league from the QB position.
It´s hard to believe, ok maybe not that hard, but we were rated below Minny, Carolina, KC, Chicago and Atlanta when it comes to QB Rating. We are talking about duds such as the inexperienced Tarvaris Jackson, Matt Moore, Brodie Croyle, 45 yr. old Vinny, turnover machine Grossman, journeymen Griese and Harrington and insurance salesman Chris Redman here.
This year the offense will be better, there´s no question in my mind, even with a “rookie” at the helm, the bar was set very low for Russell.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:18 am
Tatum…post 156
True.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Watched the Raiders vs Seahawks game from 1987 on NFLN yesterday, we ran a 3-4 base defense that featured their share of blitzing from the LB´s and Safety´s, specially the late Stacey Toran.
Greg Townsend would come in on passing downs and line up as an End with Howie moving inside next to Pickel, Sean Jones was the other End.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:30 am
Not to worry you guys. But I’m writing from the gulf coast and the word is our QB has beeen hitting the bars pretty hard in Mobile,AL this past couple of weeks. Its not exactly the best place for a young man with too much money to be partying. I hope he was careful. But just the fact that he was there and not at grandma’s kind of worries me. You’d of thought the Javon Walker experience might have help him with his judgement a bit more. I guess if I had his kind of cash I would want to throw it around with my old friends too. Except that my old friends didnt grove up in poverty and probably wouldnt stab me for a few thousand bucks. Then again, maybe his friends have better character than what my TV guided imagination of where Jamarcus grew up says.
July 20th, 2008 at 10:33 am
Yes!!
0-2 in the Season opener!
o/~ Drengene fra vestegnen, aa lala laaa, Drengene fra vestegnen laaa lalala o/~
Forza Brøndby, Allez, allez, allez!!!
July 20th, 2008 at 10:36 am
To confirm what Schefter and Milicia previously reported….
“Free agent safety Greg Wesley will spend time with the Oakland Raiders on Sunday and Monday, a league source tells us.”
pft.com
July 20th, 2008 at 10:43 am
jordan to the lions?
July 20th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Mistabrown Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 10:06 am
If you play man 2 man and dont get pressure with your front 4 and dont blitz to compensate for your lack of pressure you have 11 guys out there hung out to dry. Its a foolish scheme.
Clown you don’t even have a slightest idea what a scheme is. moron.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Oakglenn….Misterbrown has actually been making some good points today….I think the term “Moron” is a bit strong
July 20th, 2008 at 11:04 am
although I wouldn’t agree with “it’s a foolish scheme”….it’s a good scheme. We just haven’t had the guys to play it correctly and we did not execute.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:07 am
Sometimes people have a tendency to blame the scheme in Raiderland unfairly. I think it’s been coaching and asking players who are not equiped to play the schemme correctly to do too much.
Just look at the guys who washed out in Oakland on the defensive side of the ball. None of them are stars on defense now. Grady Jackson and Rod Coleman did some things, but I can’t think of anybody else who went on to do anything significant after their stint on the Raiders. Woodson of course is an exception, but he was a salary cap deletion.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:14 am
Give me an example Cope.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Oakglenn,
Actually, Brown’s response is true.
When you run a Man scheme, it all depends on pressure. Man coverage is the hardest to keep up when the play breaks down or takes too long to develope. The DB has to stick with the reciever as he runs all over the place. Getting pressure on the QB eliminates this game of cat and mouse. With Zone, the DB can sit back and just patrol their area rather than run all across the field because the front 7 can’t pressure the QB.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:24 am
DbyT, that’s true with all coverage schemes. Your DB’s are only as good as your front four pressure. And besides, as clown doesn’t quite understand the Raiders run a variety of coverage schemes including 2 deep, man, and man under. Why do you think Howard had like 6 picks last year?? He wasn’t singled up on wide outs.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:28 am
But DbyT, I’m agreeing with you regarding our front four. Hence why I wanted a Dlineman with the top pick. I am not disappointed in Dmac tho. I understand they are trying to improve the D, by improving the O. BOTH NEEDED to be improved. But it is well documented that I wanted one of the D linemen for all the reasons you stated.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:30 am
D-lineman like Dorsey come out every year. We can just as easily pick up a solid dlineman in the next draft. But you don’t see a McFadden-like player all the time. He fell into our laps.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:36 am
OAKGLENN
Mistabrown Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 9:56 am
The problem I have with the defense was 10 or 11 returning starters. RR in his 4th year etc etc etc. Vanilla defense that puts no pressure on the qb, doesnt blitz, doesnt stop the pass or run. Huge dissapointment!
Mistabrown Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 8:57 am
BHP, we never gave up more than 20 points? BHP, you are alot like OakGlenn you say things that are 100% false as if nobody here has access to facts. Did you completely forget about game 1 in 2007.
Detroit 36-21.
Ok lets move on past game 1..
GB 38 – Oak 7
This wasnt a blowout huh? Ok
Jacksonville 49 – Oak 11
*Blowout*
San Diego 30 – Oak 17
*never more than 20 points* eh BHP ?
BHP, you said we never gave up more than 20 points! How do you doit man? Seriously how do you get on here much like OakGlenn speaking down to people as if you are some higher level of fan with more knowledge completely blowing smoke out your a$$ ?
July 20th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I don’t see anything incorrect or indicating he’s a “moron” in those posts.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:38 am
That’s exactly right DbyT. Dmac is going to make our DEFENSE better. Think of that. And that’s what the Raiders are thinking. Going back to the issue of d linemen tho, both the NYG and NE Idiots, spent very high draft choices on practically all their defensive linemen. We don’t. Now last year, Sapp was a bust, Sands was a bust, Warren was sporadic, Burgess was hurt, so was Kelly, and Richardson was a rookie who was average at best. Not overly a glowing assessment.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:50 am
Well Cope let’s break it down for more than the casual fan who doesn’t quite know what he is seeing. First off, returning 10 of 11 starters also equals Sapp, Sands, Schwiegert, Sam Williams. That’s almost half the defense that really was not that productive. And one guy on every unit. Only Sam Williams was even remotely adequate, before he went down.
The 38-7 blowout in Lambeau included 2 special teams TD’s, and Routt getting burned on one play. And then that is with an offense that obviously DID NOT DO ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!! Oh, but of course, it’s the defense and Rob Ryans fault.
Jacksonville was a bad game. If you back to my last years posts, I thought the games in KC, Denver here, Indy here, GB there, and SD here, were all winnable games. jacksonville was not going to be a winnable game, and boy did it show. Hopefully we learned in that game how a physical playoff bound football team plays.
The San Diego game here included, AGAIN, a turnover on the first play of the game in Raider territory that the defense held and only gave up a FG, a TURNOVER IN THE ENDZONE RESULTING IN 6 FOR THEM, AND a long special teams return that went down inside our 10. You can’t just say we gave up 30 points when half of them came on either offensive gifts or special teams gaffes. Unless you’re a casual fan who is drunk and passed out under the north stands by half time.
July 20th, 2008 at 11:57 am
if our D was better our O would have better practice partners, and the O wouldn’t have made those mistakes…
If, If, IF…
July 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I guess the bottom line for me Cope is if you are losing games 44-41, you blame the defense, and the defensive coordinator. (See the Air Coryell, Don Bass defenses.)
When you lose games 13-9 and 12-10 like we did last year, it’s really hard for me to crucify the defense.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Cop,
What makes it a foolish scheme is exactly what you said “not having the guys to execute it”. Its also foolish to stick with your scheme when its clearly not working. If the front 4 is not getting pressure tweak your scheme and blitz on occasion…
Or get beat by garbage qb’s like tavaris jackson, sage rosenbloom ( whatever his name is ), rex grossman, kyle brodie.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:06 pm
LMN, First off, the teams normally don’t practice against the number ones during the season. In other words our starting O goes against the 2nd and 3rd team D and vice versa. No one is saying if, if , if. We are what we are. We’re a 4-12 team coming off a 2-14 season. When you are in that position the only thing as a team member or fan that matters is are we seemingly improving??? I think we are.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
This is really strange because I dont agree but even more importantly Rod Woodson said on the NFLN the Raiders run a man 2 man scheme 99% of the time and that wont work in todays NFL…
So OakGlenn, are you saying Rod Woodson is the casual dumb fan that doesnt know what hes looking at?
# Oakglenn Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 11:24 am
DbyT, that’s true with all coverage schemes. Your DB’s are only as good as your front four pressure. And besides, as clown doesn’t quite understand the Raiders run a variety of coverage schemes including 2 deep, man, and man under. Why do you think Howard had like 6 picks last year?? He wasn’t singled up on wide outs.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Oakglenn…I guess, as the casual fan I am, I bought into the number 1 pass defense propaganda and the “Just give us 17 points and we’ll win” claim from the Defense.
By the way, Sapp, Sands, Schwiegert, Sam Williams where all supposed to perform last year. They didn’t. This is the whole point that Misterbrown was trying to make. This is how Bob Ryan and they Raiders operate. They talk up all of their players and tell us how great they are because they don’t want to piss Al Davis off by saying that his drafts sucked ha ha ha.
And then some of us who express displeasure at the lousy performance that was made by the players the Organization gave us and talked up get labled as “casual fans”? LOL
To be honest Oakglenn, you are one of the more positive, pro-almost-anything-Organization-does type of guys on the board. So why are we “casual fans” or idiots when we show displeasure at the way things are going? Would we seem more intelligent if we said we were pleased with the way things have been going?
July 20th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
Well we played 16 games in 2007 feel free to look at the other 14 Oak. I know those 2 games fit your argument but we arent as stupid as youd like us to be.
# Oakglenn Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I guess the bottom line for me Cope is if you are losing games 44-41, you blame the defense, and the defensive coordinator. (See the Air Coryell, Don Bass defenses.)
When you lose games 13-9 and 12-10 like we did last year, it’s really hard for me to crucify the defense.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
OAKGLENN…
Oakglenn Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I guess the bottom line for me Cope is if you are losing games 44-41, you blame the defense, and the defensive coordinator. (See the Air Coryell, Don Bass defenses.)
When you lose games 13-9 and 12-10 like we did last year, it’s really hard for me to crucify the defense.
_______________________________
I’ll give you that. The defense did limit scoring in a lot of games. We got blown out of 4 games last year. All the others could have been won. Sometimes the defense performed well, but they did give up points when we had the lead, to lose the game on too many occassions for my taste.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Cop, if you disagree with him or challenge him on his Super Bowl blunder that NY only blitzed NE 4 times he has no choice but to call me names and act like a child. This is just a blog to us but obviously so much more to him.
# CopenhagenFan Says:
July 20th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I don’t see anything incorrect or indicating he’s a “moron” in those posts.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Actually Cope, again, and you can look this up, at this exact time last year, everyone on this blog was saying Kiff and the O is an uncertainty, but at least the D is going to be one of the top in the league. I was the one voice that said, our defense was over rated. I still believe that. I have NEVER said our personnel moves or Al Davis as GM is beyond reproach. I have never said that. What I have said is yes, we can all sit here and bitch and bitch, but what good is it going to do??? That I have said. That’s what MR does. He just sits here and repeats 19-61, 19-61, 19-61 over and over. We know that.
Clearly, our personnel is lacking on both sides of the ball. Clearly!!! The only one who doesn’t seem to realize that is Davis. As I say in my post above, the best thing the organization can do at this point is try to bring in some younger, knowledgeable football guys and let them have input. I think that is happening. And BTW, you are NOT one of those casual fans I’m talking about. You understand the game.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Oakglenn, 19-61. Face it. You explained our loss against Jax last year. Said it was a bad game. Fair enough. And, that what a thoroughly researched and sound explanation that was. Full of detail. Now explain the other 60 losses, homer.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Oakglenn, as far as your suggestion that Al should bring in younger, more knowledgeable football guys to help with personnel, there are older guys that can do it, too. It’s not about Al being too old. It’s about Al simply not knowing how to build football teams. This has been a problem with him for years, even when he was younger. He doesn’t think you need football players. He thinks athletes alone can get the job done. That’s why he never won without Wolf or Gruden. Wolf could come in here and build a playoff team in two years. Guaranteed. The problem is that Al Davis never had much football knowledge. He’s a fraud. Get with it.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
The A’s just got swept by the Yankees but hey it was only 2-1 today so our defense & pitching really held their own!!!
Sarcasm can be beautiful..
July 20th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
LOL, MB. But be careful, Oakglenn is going to assume we’re the same person. Remember, we’re “Fire Kiffin” now, too. These geniuses here have come to their conclusion that there is only one single person in the world who would criticize this current Raider team and Al’s style of management, and this one person posts under a hundred different names.
Also, this person is a Niner fan, a Charger fan, a Bronco fan, a Chiefs fan, and a Tampa fan. All at once. Don’t underestimate the crack team of investigators here, led by Oakglenn. They’ve got this Al basher tracked to the type of his blood.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Deion Sanders couldn’t play man to man 24/7., you need to have a pass rush. you can’t run around the field all game covering someone with out having a coverage breakdown. it’s impossible. Defensive backs spend more energy than receivers because they’re reactors. They react to the offense. They’ll get too tired w/o a pass rush. can’t do it.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
oakglenn; if you have the past logs.. i said our d wasn’t challenged last year. i also said we gave up a lot of opening drive TDs which set the tone for the opponents to go conservative. I did think that having 11 starters return and the same scheme we would improve so I ASSUMED their unchallenged shortfalls could be erased.
July 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
MR shut your cake hole you have been called all of those things for a reason.
You left out Troll and Gruden’s rump ranger or Grudens lover.
All you do is whine and complain about the last five years. You are thin skinned and a band wagoner please do not attend any games this year. Or we will seek you out and dispose of you.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
SNB666, what’s the matter? Don’t get so worked up. It’s common knowledge amongst everyone outside of the Al Davis kool aid crowd that the man has no clue what he’s doing, and probably never did. There’s no reason to get angry when someone talks about it. It’s just something you have to face up to. You’ll feel better when you do. The truth will set us free, they say. Aren’t you tired of being angry and defensive ALL the time? It’s no way to live. Just face the fact that Al Davis sucks, and you’ll start to enjoy this place a little more.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
666 what is up???????????????? Who you talking to?? I don’t see MoRon anywhere. I just hear a bunch of farting noises coming out of 49er clubroom.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Oakglenn, am I a Niner fan today? I was a Buc fan yesterday. The day before that, a Dolt fan. Could you please just decide once and for all what team I’m a fan of?
Look, you already faced up to the fact that al davis isn’t very smart. kudos. And, your posts actually started to make sense. Pretty soon, you’ll be a smart Raider fan like me. But now you’re slipping again, going back into Al defense mode by accusing his critics of being a fan of a different Raider rival every single day. Again, pick one Raider rival, and stick with it. It’s like you spin a wheel everyday, like the Price is Right, to figure out which team an Al critic is a fan of. Newsflash idiot: THEY’RE RAIDER FANS.
July 20th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Oakglenn
That’s funny
July 20th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
We did have 10 4th qtr leads last year. Now 4 of those we won and 6 others got away. All without a starting QB. Its a reason to be pretty optomistic. Especially if JR is as good as we hope and DMac is indeed special.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
I have a lot of issues with the “Al Davis sucks” crowd too. How many teams play for a Super Bowl every decade? And the years that build up to that are usually pretty successful. Al wants to win maore than anyone. Are you guys faulting AD for signing high priced free agents? Not wanting to break the bank for coaches? Hell, every team in the NFL can copy any other teams offense. AD is right, its not that important. YOu just have to have the players, in the right combinations, to make it work. Every year we get a team, and AD does what he can to fill in the peices missing from the year befores team. Usually the same pieces we are bitching about. In case you forgot, we had a Super Bowl team 6 years ago and the kickers are the only ones left. (I for one cheered the janikowski draft pick. But I remember the games we pissed away the year before missing FG’s.) Hopefully he found us a replacement Rich Gannon. We will see.
July 21st, 2008 at 2:19 am
Why let MRS bother you? She is upset there is no mroe Joe or Steve Young to lead the first women’s squad of the NFL. Very unintelligent person with a disdainment for Al Davis that holds zero water.
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