It’s Marshall’s turn
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Wednesday, May 13th, 2009 at 11:00 am in Oakland Raiders.
As much as Tom Cable has wisely distanced himself from Lane Kiffin, in one area the two were of a like mind.
When it came to defense, specifically defending against the run, it was mostly the fault of Rob Ryan.
The difference is Kiffin essentially pointed the finger at Ryan in the most damaging way possible. He also brought Al Davis into the mix, playing to the longheld belief that the Raiders play defense Al’s way and that the owner was even involved in game plans on a week-to-week basis.
Kiffin tried to fire Ryan after his first season and was told no, with Davis bringing the defensive coordinator for his final season. You wonder if Ryan came back because Davis really wanted him as the defensive coordinator, or if Davis simply wanted to spite Kiffin.
The toxic days are over, and so is Ryan is gone, moving on to Cleveland after his contract expired.
But make no mistake, as the Raiders made little effort in the offseason to change the personnel in their 31st-ranked rushing defense, other than the drafting of a raw in-the-box safety in Mike Mitchell, they also implicated Ryan and his staff for the deficiency.
(You could also include defensive tackle Ryan Boschetti, but he played so seldom in Washington it’s hard to know if he can be a factor or if he’ll even make the team).
If Ryan wasn’t so busy trying to put together a defense in Cleveland, he could probably feel the force of the wheels from the Raiders team bus.
Ryan used to often say the Raiders system was designed to put their superior players in position to make plays _ the inference being Oakland had ll the talent it needed and that it was his job to make it work.
At the minicamp, the words coming out of Cable’s mouth could have been Ryan’s, while at the same time leaving no doubt the former defensive coordinator ran a loose ship where details and assignments were missed.
“What it gets down to is I think we have some talented players on defense, and so getting them in the right place and them understanding what you’re asking them to do, and teaching how to play the game with their hands, and how to tackle, and how to blitz and how to cover the right way,” Cable said. “If you ask me what’s going to be different, that’s how we’re going to be different. We’re going to coach it and teach it better.”
Doubtful you’ll hear any response from Ryan, who will no doubt throw his considerable weight into building up some of the Cleveland Browns as unblockable and unstoppable.
You’re not hearing anything from Marshall, either, as Cable thinks its best at this time if he does all the talking.
Linebacker Thomas Howard said it’s been strictly fundamentals since Marshall arrived and isn’t sure what the defense will look like.
“We’re still feeling out John, seeing if he’s going to lean toward pressure or what,” Howard said.
Regarding blitzes, “Howard said, “We’re putting in a lot more pressures but you still want to see how it’s going to translate in a game. Even when Rob was here, we did it out here but you still want to see how it goes in games.”
Howard believes Marshall’s vast experience will be of some help.
“He’s been around the game for so long, he’s seen it when teams went (1-15) and he’s seen it when teams were (15-1),” Howard said. “He’s been to the big dance. he’s been at the top three in defense. He’s been in the bottom three in defense. He’s seen it all.”
If Marshall’s strict adherence to fundamentals _ Howard said the Raiders are doing things he did in high school _ pays off in one of those top three finishes, then the Ryan was the problem. If it is one of his bottom three finishes, Ryan is a scapegoat, and Marshall will be next up for scrutiny.
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May 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am
1st
May 13th, 2009 at 11:03 am
2nd
May 13th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Profile: QB Bruce Gradkowski
For new Oakland Raiders quarterback Bruce Gradkowski, the offseason mostly consists of getting back to Pittsburgh, Pa., to visit his family and friends before the season starts again. This year however, he arrived in Northern California to join fellow Raiders quarterbacks JaMarcus Russell, Jeff Garcia, and Andrew Walter for offseason workouts and May’s mandatory mini-camp.
As a newcomer to the Silver and Black, Gradkowski’s main goal is to lead by example; to come in, work hard, and let his actions speak for themselves. “I really just hope to bring passion and energy to the game that will hopefully rub off on the team, as well as the fans,” Gradkowski said in a recent interview.
Growing up in Pittsburgh, Gradkowski knew from the time he was in the fourth grade that he wanted to play professional football. When one of his teachers had students write down on an index card what they wanted to be when they grew up, Gradkowski wrote he wanted to play in the NFL. “She still reminds me she has that index card,” said Gradkowski.
Although it was always a dream of his to play in the NFL, the future signal-caller took it one step at a time. After high school, Gradkowski went on to play at the University of Toledo in Ohio where he was named co-recipient of the 2005 Vern Smith Award by the Mid-American Conference. The award, presented annually to the league’s Most Valuable Player, was shared between Gradkowski and Western Michigan wide receiver Greg Jennings. Gradkowski was also selected first team All-MAC, and went on the lead Toledo to a GMAC Bowl win over UTEP in 2005.
Having previously played with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Cleveland Browns, Gradkowski finds the biggest difference between playing college football and playing in the NFL is the speed of the game. “Everyone has talent in this league,” stated Gradkowski. “It is just a matter of willing yourself to win, to work hard, and to find a way to win games.”
Having only practiced together a few weeks, Gradkowski feels as though the Raiders quarterbacks have good chemistry and complement each other on the field and in the classroom. By working together as one unit and learning from each other, they are bringing out the best in one another’s talents. “Us quarterbacks are all in this together,” said Gradkowski. “We are here to help [starting QB] JaMarcus [Russell]. We want him to succeed and if we have to play, we are going to do the best we can to help this team win.”
Gradkowski’s mission is to help the Raiders win football games in any way that he can, on or off the field. He plans on being a leader and supporting the other players on the squad. As an individual player, he hopes to make his team better in any way that he can.
Having never played in the Oakland-Alameda County Coliseum, Gradkowski is most excited to see the “Black Hole” first hand, and meet the true passionate and die-hard fans of The Oakland Raiders. “As a player, you could not want anything more than that,” said Gradkowski. “To have your fans so into the game and so into your team, I’m really looking forward playing there.”
By Sharni Bruce
May 13th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Rob Ryan was in essence a lame-duck coach the last two years. Players often have trouble playing for lame-duck coaches, so Ryan is addition by subtraction in my mind.
If the Run D could just go from 31st to 22nd, still way below average, that could be the difference from 5-11 and 8-8.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Jerry Mac says: Doubtful you’ll hear any response from Ryan, who will no doubt throw his considerable weight into building up some of the Cleveland Browns as unblockable and unstoppable.
____________________________________
Jerry’s way of calling Ryan a fat ass.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:08 am
controlling the ball and the clock with an effective running game will do more to help the run defense than three new first-round defenders.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:09 am
…and blow hard…right Jerry?
Just come out and say it, Ryan was a fat ass blow hard.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:11 am
DE/OLB Jason Taylor resigned with the Fins today
May 13th, 2009 at 11:14 am
repost
exlaraiderseasonticketholder Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Jason Taylor just inked a 4 yr deal with Miami.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:15 am
That was the issue with the Raider defense. Waaay too slack. Too many missed tackles, poor fundamentals, guys not playing into a “team” concept and leaving their assignments. That, was the issue with the Raider defense. Hopefully, that will improve under Marshall.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:16 am
From the SI article:
“All of which brings us back to the Walker saga in Oakland. His secret surgery is virtually unprecedented and a clear violation of the standard NFL player contract, which requires the player to make the club aware of any health issues he is having or medical people he consults.”
AD has the means to cut Walker without paying him if he wants.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:19 am
AD has the means to cut Walker without paying him if he wants.
***
get rid of Walker “for cause” … LOL
I love it!
this probably wouldn’t look too good in the middle of an ongoing Kiffin lawsuit where he was fired “for cause” . Walker might try to have the NFLPA intervene on his behalf
May 13th, 2009 at 11:24 am
What’s up Nation?
May 13th, 2009 at 11:25 am
If the offense can improve, AT ALL, the run defense will be much much better. Think about the Buffalo game last year. Not only did our defense play a stellar game, at one point they handed the offense the ball on the Buffalo 8 yard line. I think we ended up losing yardage before kicking a FG on that possession. Opponents knew we were not going to score, so they could just slam the rock at us repeatedly. We have to figure out a way to score points. It looks like Cable is going to scrap a bunch of the Kiffin offense in favor of his own, and by judging the last two games, that is probably a good thing.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Dakota,
Lakers!!! 40 points!!!
Remind me please, was I making fun of your lakers?!!
lol
May 13th, 2009 at 11:27 am
whats up nation
May 13th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Did we sign any new players??
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
May 13th, 2009 at 11:33 am
schillens fade to back corner of endzone while miller a curl route in the middle and dmac and a swing, options
May 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Taylor’s deal is 1 yr. not 4 yrs.
Ultimately, the 34-year-old former NFL Defensive Player of the Year and six-time Pro Bowl selection reportedly struck a one-year, $1.1 million deal that also contains an extra $400,000 in incentive clauses. The contract was finalized today.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:34 am
minus Walker (cut) and Shields (IR) we should keep the following WR’s
DHB, Murphy, Higgins, Schilens & Holland.
wave goodbye to Parker & Watkins. let one of the undrafted rookies (Nick Miller or Shawn Bayes) join the practice squad. whoever is more impressive
Bayes is only 5′10″ 180 lbs, Miller is only 5′9″ 180 lbs. LOL
May 13th, 2009 at 11:35 am
# raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
———————————————————
Play action draw fake to Dmac who wheels right, Shilens runs a deep post on the endline, but your primary is Zach running an 11 yard curl on the left side. Six.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:33 am
schillens fade to back corner of endzone while miller a curl route in the middle and dmac and a swing, options
i like playaction to DMAC with schillens on an in-route
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
i cant wait until we get rid of walker im sick of hearing his name and i dont want are young receivers around him
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
***
wildcat formation. DMC takes the snap and hands it to Fargas up the middle
May 13th, 2009 at 11:37 am
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:33 am
schillens fade to back corner of endzone while miller a curl route in the middle and dmac and a swing, options
————————————————-
LOL. Almost Exactly what I said.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:37 am
# raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
———————————————————
Play action draw fake to Dmac who wheels right, Shilens runs a deep post on the endline, but your primary is Zach running an 11 yard curl on the left side. Six.
——————————
gave me goose bumps!!! I can hear the crowd… RAIDERSS….RAI-DERS-RAI-DERS!
May 13th, 2009 at 11:38 am
raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:33 am
schillens fade to back corner of endzone while miller a curl route in the middle and dmac and a swing, options
i like playaction to DMAC with schillens on an in-route
—————————————–
that sounds good too, schillens can get between the ball and the corner with that body of his, but on 4th down a defense isnt going to bite on a play-action
May 13th, 2009 at 11:39 am
man i cant wait to see our guys in action
May 13th, 2009 at 11:40 am
raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
__________________
Which 10 yard line? lol 90 yard bomb to JLH or DHB.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:40 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
***
Russell in the shotgun. pump fakes to Tony Stewart. throws the ball at Lorenzo Neal’s feet standing on the 1 yard line
May 13th, 2009 at 11:40 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:36 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
***
wildcat formation. DMC takes the snap and hands it to Fargas up the middle
///////
I dont like fargas in the wild cat… i’d go with bush!!! but i like the idea
May 13th, 2009 at 11:41 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:40 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
***
Russell in the shotgun. pump fakes to Tony Stewart. throws the ball at Lorenzo Neal’s feet standing on the 1 yard line
———————————————-
lets hope this DOESNT happen lol
May 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
unless neil catches it
May 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
lets hope this DOESNT happen lol
***
what about this one?
wildcat formation. DMC takes the snap and hands it to Fargas up the middle
May 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
We’re going with 17 Bob Trey O.
break
May 13th, 2009 at 11:43 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:40 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
***
Russell in the shotgun. pump fakes to Tony Stewart. throws the ball at Lorenzo Neal’s feet standing on the 1 yard line
****
oh yeah…
neal picks up a block…. russell spins weak side… lasers a pass to miller in blackhole… TOUCHDOWN RAAAAAIIIIIIDDDDDEEEERRRRZZZ! (thats my papa imitations)
May 13th, 2009 at 11:44 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:42 am
lets hope this DOESNT happen lol
***
what about this one?
wildcat formation. DMC takes the snap and hands it to Fargas up the middle
———————————————–
fargas is going to be on the IR once we get to this point lol
May 13th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Another quote from Howard:
“We still have our Raider 3, the Cover 3, that we’ve been running since before I got here but at the same time we’re going to have some different pressures. We’re still feeling out John, seeing if he’s going to lean toward more pressure or what. But we’re definitely more fundamentally sound. Everybody is loud and kind of understanding because we’re starting all over.”
————————-
What the hell is Raider-3, anybody know? I was always under the impression that we ran a Cover-0 scheme.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Cable might go with: fake FG, Jano sweep
break
May 13th, 2009 at 11:46 am
BART Bridge Blues Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:44 am
Another quote from Howard:
“We still have our Raider 3, the Cover 3, that we’ve been running since before I got here but at the same time we’re going to have some different pressures. We’re still feeling out John, seeing if he’s going to lean toward more pressure or what. But we’re definitely more fundamentally sound. Everybody is loud and kind of understanding because we’re starting all over.”
————————-
What the hell is Raider-3, anybody know? I was always under the impression that we ran a Cover-0 scheme.
————————————————-
its that ridiculous 1 safety deep scheme that everbody is so mad at huff for, but the the scheme is a safety killer, it exposes the safety way to much
May 13th, 2009 at 11:48 am
ok. here we go
I formation, 2 TE set with Miller & Myers. Neal & Bush in the backfield. DHB the lone WR, runs a slant to the back of the end zone in the middle of the field near the goal post. Russell looks left, nothing. looks right, nothing. pressure up the middle, scrambles to his right. throws a high wobbler across his body. DHB leaps and makes the catch and is forced out of bounds by the CB. should be pass interference! only got 1 foot in bounds. no call. incomplete pass. game over
May 13th, 2009 at 11:51 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:48 am
ok. here we go
I formation, 2 TE set with Miller & Myers. Neal & Bush in the backfield. DHB the lone WR, runs a slant to the back of the end zone in the middle of the field near the goal post. Russell looks left, nothing. looks right, nothing. pressure up the middle, scrambles to his right. throws a high wobbler across his body. DHB leaps and makes the catch and is forced out of bounds by the CB. should be pass interference! only got 1 foot in bounds. no call. incomplete pass. game over
————————————————-
i like schillens on a fade pattern like the giants ran for buress to win the super bowl, or dhb with his 40 plus vertical
May 13th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Raiderssince87,
Wouldn’t that be a Cover-1 scheme? I am starting to think that Howard was referring to the Wolverine package, where there are 3 safeties that can play cover-3 on passing downs. Because are CB’s are almost never in zone coverage.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:51 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:48 am
ok. here we go
I formation, 2 TE set with Miller & Myers. Neal & Bush in the backfield. DHB the lone WR, runs a slant to the back of the end zone in the middle of the field near the goal post. Russell looks left, nothing. looks right, nothing. pressure up the middle, scrambles to his right. throws a high wobbler across his body. DHB leaps and makes the catch and is forced out of bounds by the CB. should be pass interference! only got 1 foot in bounds. no call. incomplete pass. game over
//////
then im stuck in traffic pissed off mad and drunk
May 13th, 2009 at 11:53 am
What about DHB and his speed!! Play action to Dmc, JLH in the slot, Miller, and Chaz and DHB wide.
Chaz runs a deep in.
JLH runs the Flag.
Miller on a short post,
DHB on a Go route.
I love it!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Raider-3 is a brainchild of Rob Ryan. It’s when the first two levels of defense allow the RB into the secondary and then our great safeties are responsible for making the tackle as the third line of defense.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I almost forgot, TD!!!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 11:55 am
BART Bridge Blues Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Raiderssince87,
Wouldn’t that be a Cover-1 scheme? I am starting to think that Howard was referring to the Wolverine package, where there are 3 safeties that can play cover-3 on passing downs. Because are CB’s are almost never in zone coverage.
————————————————–
yeah you right, either way raiders hanvt had no clue on how to use safeties, hopefully this changes with marshall
May 13th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Hey OakGklenn! Your nose still bleeding?
Actually we agree here! Problem is the last 2 years you’ve been saying Rob Ryan was a good DC. Poor fundamentals points directly @ RR, how can you be a good DC and not teach fundamentals?
U may speak..
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:15 am
That was the issue with the Raider defense. Waaay too slack. Too many missed tackles, poor fundamentals, guys not playing into a “team” concept and leaving their assignments. That, was the issue with the Raider defense. Hopefully, that will improve under Marshall.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Dakota Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Raider-3 is a brainchild of Rob Ryan. It’s when the first two levels of defense allow the RB into the secondary and then our great safeties are responsible for making the tackle as the third line of defense.
————————————————-
lol! thats what i meant to say
May 13th, 2009 at 11:56 am
I see a pass to Meyers, Stewart, O’Neill or Strong in the flats. Miller, McFadden, DHB and Schilens would use up all their other able-bodied defenders, leaving our sure-handed back-up tight end being covered by the opposing team’s slower coverage LB.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Dakota!
#7
lmao
May 13th, 2009 at 11:57 am
interesting Javon Walker interview transcript on Raiderbeat.com… Maybe he’s the mentor for our young receiving core
May 13th, 2009 at 11:57 am
# BART Bridge Blues Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:51 am
Raiderssince87,
Wouldn’t that be a Cover-1 scheme? I am starting to think that Howard was referring to the Wolverine package, where there are 3 safeties that can play cover-3 on passing downs. Because are CB’s are almost never in zone coverage.
——————————————————
Cover three is the corners are on man on the outside each responsible for their one third, one safety is tight in the box or man options to the TE, one safety takes the middle third. It’s not that antiquated. urban Meyer had the Florida defense playing that same scheme in the National Championship game.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Sadly, it sounds like the Raiders intend on continuing to run the “Raider-3″ next season, whatever that is.
May 13th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Are we on our 10 yard line?!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
exactly i know what it is, but the point i was trying to make is the safety is still exposed in the middle, the corners have the sidline to help them, on deep in patterns they just release the wr to the deep safety, no help is coming
May 13th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
BART Bridge Blues Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Sadly, it sounds like the Raiders intend on continuing to run the “Raider-3″ next season, whatever that is.
——————————————–
and then we are going to here all kind of people crying about huff again, when its clearly scheme
May 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
exactly i know what it is, but the point i was trying to make is the safety is still exposed in the middle, the corners have the sidline to help them, on deep in patterns they just release the wr to the deep safety, no help is coming
——————————————————-
Say that again.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
I formation, 2 TE set with Miller & Myers both lined up on the right. Neal & McFadden in the backfield. Schilens lined up on the left. motions and crosses over to the right. short screen pass to DMC on the right. Carlisle & Barnes get out in front. the two TE’s to his side. he’s running down the sideline. Neal smashes the MLB. Schilens got his man. D Dogg dives into the end zone untouched!
TOUCHDOWN RAIDERS!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
Jerry I asked you a couple days ago if there is competition between C Johnson & Routt or is Johnson the clear starter opposite Nnamdi.
Jerry when I axe a question I expect answers, thanks in advance.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Rob Ryan Browns Interview:
Mangina: The Raiders were almost dead last against the run in 2009. Why do you think that is?
Rob Ryan: I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some people out there in our nation don’t have maps, and I believe that our education, like such as South Africa and the Ir@q, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should — our education over here in the US should help the US — or should help South Africa and should help the Ir@q and the Asian countries, so we will be able to build up our future for our children.
Mangina: I love that answer, you are hired.
Rob Ryan: Great, does that mean I can have another piece of this pizza?
Mangina: Knock yourself out.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
jerry answered my question yesterday concerning SAM , looks like they want slade norris to try and win the job there, but hes working with the 2nd unit as of now
May 13th, 2009 at 12:08 pm
dakota, funny and possibly true
May 13th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I hope The Marshall plan works. One thing, we know the Ryan plan did not work. The problem with the defense the last few years has to be Ryan’s fault, although it is Al Davis’s as well because Al Davis hired him and then stuck with him, but it was Ryan’s fault because either he mis-evaluated the talent or else he wasn’t a good enough coach to get good production out of the talent. Either was he was lacking. With even modest improvement in the run defense this team could be much better.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
Sounds like Marshall wants to find out what he’s got to work with before he installs his scheme. If that’s what’s he’s doing, I totally agree.
This “must score a TD on the last play of the game” situation is especially hard on the Raiders on account of all the inexperienced WRs. DHB lines up wide left, runs a comeback. Miller lines up slot left, runs a slant to the back left corner. JLH lines up wide right, runs a square-in. D-Mac lines up slot right, runs a square-out. The timing on all these routes is to get somebody picked off. L. O’Neal hits the blitzer if there is 1, chips a lineman if there isn’t, and runs straight down the middle.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
ooops, I guess that should have been 2008…my bad…
May 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
exactly i know what it is, but the point i was trying to make is the safety is still exposed in the middle, the corners have the sidline to help them, on deep in patterns they just release the wr to the deep safety, no help is coming
——————————————————
I still don’t get what you are saying here. The safety IS the help.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
raiderkoolaid Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I hope The Marshall plan works. One thing, we know the Ryan plan did not work. The problem with the defense the last few years has to be Ryan’s fault, although it is Al Davis’s as well because Al Davis hired him and then stuck with him, but it was Ryan’s fault because either he mis-evaluated the talent or else he wasn’t a good enough coach to get good production out of the talent. Either was he was lacking. With even modest improvement in the run defense this team could be much better.
————————————————-
yeah its definitely rr fault, his schemes were ridiculous, hes really a 3-4 coach that was trying to run a college 4-3, thats why the browns hired him, for their 3-4
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:35 am
# raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
———————————————————
Play action draw fake to Dmac who wheels right, Shilens runs a deep post on the endline, but your primary is Zach running an 11 yard curl on the left side. Six.
__________________________
Who would bite on the play action on 4th and 10? And isn’t 4th and 10 from the 10 = 4th and goal?
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:13 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
exactly i know what it is, but the point i was trying to make is the safety is still exposed in the middle, the corners have the sidline to help them, on deep in patterns they just release the wr to the deep safety, no help is coming
——————————————————
I still don’t get what you are saying here. The safety IS the help.
———————————————-
the safety is not the help in a cover 3, his responsibility is the deep middle
May 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Who would bite on the play action on 4th and 10? And isn’t 4th and 10 from the 10 = 4th and goal?
———————————————
exactly what i said about 20 posts ago
May 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
cover 3 an 2 schemes only work when you have zone coverage players, all are players are drafted to play man, its the scheme that never worked that rr always ran, not our players
May 13th, 2009 at 12:19 pm
BK Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:35 am
# raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
———————————————————
Play action draw fake to Dmac who wheels right, Shilens runs a deep post on the endline, but your primary is Zach running an 11 yard curl on the left side. Six.
__________________________
Who would bite on the play action on 4th and 10? And isn’t 4th and 10 from the 10 = 4th and goal?
——
true but 4th and 10 gives a true measurement.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
and the fact of the matter is, rr expected huff to play the middle and help the corners at the same time while they were manned up AND help out against the run all at the same time
May 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Who would bite on the play action on 4th and 10? And isn’t 4th and 10 from the 10 = 4th and goal?
———————————————
exactly what i said about 20 posts ago
—————————————————–
Draw fake. Not a straight play fake. All you need is that one half a second. And if you remember a lot of NFL teams last year were running plays and converting 3rd and 8’s, 3rd and 7’s by running the ball. In fact Kiffin did it repeatedly.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
I like my play but not on 4th and 10. I just added a play since everyone else was doing it. lol
May 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
IN a 2 TE set, Bush in the backfield, Heyward-by-the-Bey split right, Schilens left…Russell surveys the defense and barks out a play change, moving back into the shotgun. Ball is snapped and the WRs sprint to the corners…Russell pump fakes and runs a QB draw into the end zone, standing up. Leading the way were the mobile Gallery and Satele. Lying on the ground are two smallish LBers who tried to stop that train.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
the safety is not the help in a cover 3, his responsibility is the deep middle
—————————————
You are Correct about the responsibility for the deep middle. So what receiver is he taking? Give me a scenario where you have someone running uncovered down the middle of the field.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:24 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Who would bite on the play action on 4th and 10? And isn’t 4th and 10 from the 10 = 4th and goal?
———————————————
exactly what i said about 20 posts ago
—————————————————–
Draw fake. Not a straight play fake. All you need is that one half a second. And if you remember a lot of NFL teams last year were running plays and converting 3rd and 8’s, 3rd and 7’s by running the ball. In fact Kiffin did it repeatedly.
——————————————-
were not that kind of team yet
May 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
Cover 3 refers to 3 deep defenders each guarding one-third of the deep zone. Cover 3 schemes are usually used to defend against passes, mainly those towards the deep middle of the field. Unlike Cover 2 schemes that create a natural hole between safeties, Cover 3’s extra deep defender is able to patrol the middle area effectively.
The most basic Cover 3 scheme involves 2 CBs and 2 safeties. On the snap, the CBs work for depth, backpedaling into their assigned zone. One safety moves toward the center of the field. The other safety is free to rotate into the flat area (about 2-4 yards beyond the line of scrimmage), provide pass coverage help, or blitz.
One of the biggest benefits of the cover 3 coverage scheme is the ability to walk the SS up into the box with minimal to no changes in the coverage due to the pre-snap center field position of the FS. This enables the defense to play both man and zone coverage out of an 8 man front while cover 2 schemes allow only for man coverage with 8 man fronts. The New England Patriots are notorious for using SS Rodney Harrison as more of a third OLB than a coverage safety and regularly employ cover 3 coverages.
Cover 3 schemes are susceptible to short, timed passes to the outside due to the hard drop of both CBs. This puts pressure on the OLBs to get into their drop quickly. Another disadvantage of cover 3 schemes is they are relatively easy to diagnose by opposing QBs. Because of this teams will often employ slight wrinkles in their coverage to confuse offenses. An example of this includes employing man coverage on one side and zone on another or swapping coverage zones between defenders.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
raiderkoolaid Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I hope The Marshall plan works. One thing, we know the Ryan plan did not work. The problem with the defense the last few years has to be Ryan’s fault, although it is Al Davis’s as well because Al Davis hired him and then stuck with him, but it was Ryan’s fault because either he mis-evaluated the talent or else he wasn’t a good enough coach to get good production out of the talent. Either was he was lacking. With even modest improvement in the run defense this team could be much better.
————————————————-
yeah its definitely rr fault, his schemes were ridiculous, hes really a 3-4 coach that was trying to run a college 4-3, thats why the browns hired him, for their 3-4
****************************************************
Maybe Ryan will succeed in Cleavland and maybe he was a square peg in a round hole in Oakland. I felt for years that The Raiders should have either stuck with the 3-4 and got him the personel to run it with or else got rid of him years ago, and so that is Al Davis’s fault, but as long as Ryan was here he wasn’t getting the job done.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
the safety is not the help in a cover 3, his responsibility is the deep middle
—————————————
You are Correct about the responsibility for the deep middle. So what receiver is he taking? Give me a scenario where you have someone running uncovered down the middle of the field.
———————————————-
since your grilling me on this, most teams run 3 or 4 wr’s, so the slot on either side and the te, plus like i said deep in patterns will be released to him
May 13th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
One safety moves toward the center of the field. (Huff or Eugene)
The other safety is free to rotate into the flat area about 2-4 yards beyond the line of scrimmage, provide pass coverage help, or blitz. (Mitchell or Branch)
This enables the defense to play both man and zone coverage out of an 8 man front …
May 13th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Bo Schembechler Jackson Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
IN a 2 TE set, Bush in the backfield, Heyward-by-the-Bey split right, Schilens left…Russell surveys the defense and barks out a play change, moving back into the shotgun. Ball is snapped and the WRs sprint to the corners…Russell pump fakes and runs a QB draw into the end zone, standing up. Leading the way were the mobile Gallery and Satele. Lying on the ground are two smallish LBers who tried to stop that train.
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
But wait! Is that a late flag on the play? A celebration penalty is tacked on to the Raiders after Cornell Green takes off his helmet while performing his infamous “mop handle” dance. 15 yards added to the extra point try…which Jano HOOKS INTO THE LEFT GOALPOST!! Game tied, heading into sudden death…
May 13th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
RR,
That’s B Ryans 4-6!!
May 13th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
isnt barnes supposed to be taking greens spot, i hope?
May 13th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
the safety is not the help in a cover 3, his responsibility is the deep middle
—————————————
You are Correct about the responsibility for the deep middle. So what receiver is he taking? Give me a scenario where you have someone running uncovered down the middle of the field.
———————————————-
since your grilling me on this, most teams run 3 or 4 wr’s, so the slot on either side and the te, plus like i said deep in patterns will be released to him
—————————————————-
Exactly. So anyone releasing their assignment to him, he would be the help. Also, If you are facing a 4 WR set you would most likely be in one of your dime packages not a 3 deep.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
There is no “deep middle” on defense when the offense is at your 10 yard line.
May 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:45 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Oakglenn Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
the safety is not the help in a cover 3, his responsibility is the deep middle
—————————————
You are Correct about the responsibility for the deep middle. So what receiver is he taking? Give me a scenario where you have someone running uncovered down the middle of the field.
———————————————-
since your grilling me on this, most teams run 3 or 4 wr’s, so the slot on either side and the te, plus like i said deep in patterns will be released to him
—————————————————-
Exactly. So anyone releasing their assignment to him, he would be the help. Also, If you are facing a 4 WR set you would most likely be in one of your dime packages not a 3 deep.
————————————————–
no kidding on the 3 or 4 sets u said give u a scenario i did, so what are you trying to argue with me about then, he’s not the help if its HIS responsibility, he’s help when its man and he’s over the the top or breaking under, stop trying to make it seem like i dont know what im talking about, you starting to throw little curveballs to make me look stupid , i dont appreciate it
May 13th, 2009 at 12:56 pm
im out nation got 1 more final at 1pm
May 13th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
“Ryan used to often say the Raiders system was designed to put their superior players in position to make plays _ the inference being Oakland had ll the talent it needed and that it was his job to make it work.”
——————–
Translation: Obviously the players are “superior” because they were hand picked by the Furher. It has to be the coaching deficiencies. Heil.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
# raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
———————————————————
Play action draw fake to Dmac who wheels right, Shilens runs a deep post on the endline, but your primary is Zach running an 11 yard curl on the left side. Six.
——————
TD!! Flag down, refs call Zach for pushing off. The announcers are silent as they watch the replay showing the rest of the world that THERE WAS NO PUSHING OFF!!!
May 13th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
# raidersince87 Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 12:54 pm
no kidding on the 3 or 4 sets u said give u a scenario i did, so what are you trying to argue with me about then, he’s not the help if its HIS responsibility, he’s help when its man and he’s over the the top or breaking under, stop trying to make it seem like i dont know what im talking about, you starting to throw little curveballs to make me look stupid , i dont appreciate it
—————————————————-
Hey, I’m not trying to do anything. I have found there is no use in telling anyone anything, I always want for them to figure it out for themselves. I think basically every thing you said was completely right. The only thing I wanted you to see is:
1) if a WR flanked outside takes a deep post to the inside of the field, even tho initially the corner has him, he has deep help from that safety
2) In a 3 WR set, the slot receiver, covered by in our case Routt would have deep help if that slot receiver ran a skinny post
3) A TE would normally be covered by either a safety in the box (preferably) or a LB, and if that TE ran a deep seam route, would have help deep again from that safety.
Unless someone blows their coverage, which does happen, that deep safety is their to help more than just cover the middle third. I think that is what my point is. I’m not arguing with you. I’m just saying.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:26 pm
Kiffin tried to fire Ryan after his first season and was told no, with Davis bringing the defensive coordinator for his final season. You wonder if Ryan came back because Davis really wanted him as the defensive coordinator, or if Davis simply wanted to spite Kiffin.
——————————————————————————–
I still don’t understand why Davis didn’t allow Ryan to be fired.
If he did it to spite Kiffin, man, that’s a big red flag from an NFL owner. You try to field the best team, no matter what!
If he liked Ryan, what was he thinking?
Another opinion is that of keeping him simply because he’s under contract. If so, that’s crazy too. Pay Walker millions to stand by and get surgeries while worrying about the chump change your D-coord is making?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
So Raider-3 coverage is basically the one Safety deep, one safety in the box scheme that has ruined the careers of Gibson, Stuey, and Huff already?
May 13th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
The morons on NFL Live just played the Tim Brown audio and then simply said it was “surprising” given Al’s history.
Just said it was surprising, lmao, and left it at that. They use Brown’s comments against Al and then pretty much dropped it at that because it did what they wanted; made Al look bad.
Real journalists would have Brown on the show to explain his comments, but they don’t want to even give Brown the chance to backtrack, they just want to play his original comment and let it give Al a black eye.
fukers
May 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
# BART Bridge Blues Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
So Raider-3 coverage is basically the one Safety deep, one safety in the box scheme that has ruined the careers of Gibson, Stuey, and Huff already?
———————————————-
Well, yes and no. Derrick Gibson was actually a very good run support safety. His coverage skills were a bit lacking but not by much. Huff and Stu have the exact same issue: they are always one second too late in their reactions. And Stu’s tackling was atrocious. Rashad Baker came in last year playing the same defense and had what, 2 or 3 pix, in limited playing time. If the safeties read and play fast, they will do well. If they react slowly, we all will suffer a terrible fate.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
I AM SO TIRED of this RAIDER BASHING… everything in the media seems to be negative when comes to the raiders..
May 13th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
Our rushing defense has been horrible for a while. I dont know if you can that al on RR. At some point the players have to take some responsibility.
I was also suprised that we spent the entire offseason focused on offense. I didnt think the offense was THAT bad we put up some points at the end of the season.
May 13th, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Still gotta love Tim Brown for what he did on the field…only reason to watch the Raiders for about 5 seasons there in the mid 1990’s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74DDulo9qCU
May 13th, 2009 at 1:50 pm
@ 102 – can’t remember where but Gil Brandt predicts the Raiders to win AFC West!
May 13th, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Derrick Gibson was actually a very good run support safety. His coverage skills were a bit lacking but not by much. Huff and Stu have the exact same issue: they are always one second too late in their reactions. And Stu’s tackling was atrocious.
***
Derrick Gibson (like Gibril Wilson) was good in the box, but terrible vs the pass. Schweigert couldn’t make a tackle to save his life and also was burned pretty regular in pass coverage. Huff has had tackling issues as well, but mainly playing in the box role, not the centerfield role. He only got 5 starts last year before Cable pulled the plug and I think if the front seven played better against the run Huff’s tackling skills or lack thereof wouldn’t have been so noticable. Huff, unlike the other 2 or 3 guys mentioned is a good cover man. He’s solid vs the passing game. He’s dropped some balls, but who hasn’t? Nnamdi, CJ, Morrison, Howard, Eugene.. they all dropped easy INT’s last year!
What we can hope for out of the safety position is that Branch and/or Mitchell are better cover guys than Gibson, Stu and Wilson were. I’m pretty sure they can both tackle better than Stu & Huff. MM hits like a mack truck! The main thing is Marshall getting the front seven to play better against the run so that we’re not relying so heavily on the safeties to bring down a bigger RB with a full head of steam who has already reached the second level and sees paydirt. Thats putting your DB in a position to fail.
May 13th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Rockstar…I’m sure some of them own mirrors, so you might be wrong on that.
May 13th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Hey USC fans…looks like you are the NE Patriots of College football.
When are they going to take your championships away?
May 13th, 2009 at 4:02 pm
raiderrej Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 11:29 am
score is-27 raiders-21, game winding down 4th and 10 on the 10 yardline, 6 seconds on the clock…. whats the play???
^^^^
Bush is the single back with DMC in the slot….Miller goes in motion from one end to the other. JLH is on one side with Schilens on the other. Making sure Miller is lined up on the same side where DMC is lined on the slot.
Play action to Bush DMC has man coverage and runs a 12 yard out with hard cut…..Schilens runs a post toward the back of the end zone with Miller being the primary runs a hard post of his own to try and clear out the safety. Primary is Miller but he also a decoy….look to get the ball to DMC at the goal line who should beat his man or Schilens who should be one on one with his man since safety will help be toward Miller.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Just watched Timmy’s clips from # 102. He had some stinkers in the playoffs, but he was almost always money against the Broncos in the regular season.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
But I saved the “Hitler Gets Angry At the Raiders”
Thanks Dakota. LMFAO
May 13th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Missed tackles, over pursued, bad angles , bad use of talent what else can you say about the Ryan era, other than glad it’s over.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
The Oakland Raiders acquired veteran tight end J.P. Foschi, agreeing to terms with him on a one-year deal, according to Alex Marvez of FOXSports.com.
May 13th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Good Night Everyone including the Mods. LOL
Go Raiders
May 13th, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Dakota Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
Hey USC fans…looks like you are the NE Patriots of College football.
When are they going to take your championships away?
^^^^
Thats what I’m wondering….how come the Reggie Bush cheating scandal is taking so long to come to an end and why is USC not being punished for obvious violations??
The NCAA is rigged and corrupt thats why and they know they need USC to stay afloat…..
May 13th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
Very young team in Oakland.
The D will remain the same as will the scheme and most of its players.
The system is sound and proven if executed properly and if the offense is producing long drives and points to protect.
We all know about the defenses lack of gap control and disregard of responsibilties and we’re all painfully aware of Oaklands shocking lack of offense in the last few years.
In theory, Davis is right.
This scheme works.
IF its run properly and the offense puts up points to protect.
If Bush and DMC live up to their potential….
May 13th, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Lynn from Snot Says:
May 13th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
Missed tackles, over pursued, bad angles , bad use of talent what else can you say about the Ryan era, other than glad it’s over.
===============================
I agree.
Morrisons out of place at MLB.
When the Raiders play disciplined gap control defense, they look good.
Last year, Kiffin was right. We lacked depth.
(Not sure how many teams on a five year skid have New York Giants depth, but…)
This is a very young team and we felt some growing pains when some of these younger players took the field, often giving up big runs or key plays.
I hope they’ve gotten a little more experience and will continue to progress because their is potential.
May 13th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Watched the Dolphins Raiders game from last season.
Satele struggled with Warren. Was Satele hurt then? He got pushed around a bit and had some trouble getting second level.
Grove had the better day but I’m not sure who played DT for Miami and how good they were.
Intersting, I watched another game from last year and noticed it there too, but against Miami, there were at least two occasions where Oakland lined up in a 4 man front and at the snap dropped Gerard Warren into coverage on the TE.
The big man can hustle!
May 13th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I will never drink the koolaid. This is a no brainer, the Raiders have been losers because they are deficient not only in the lines where it counts the most, but Al has had nothing but lap dogs to tell him that the talent is OK and the coaching will work it out. Now, you add poor coaching and you get six straight losing seasons of eleven plus games.
I like Cable but he is definitely a pedigree. I was never a Kiffin fan but at least he had the balls to tell Al straight.
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