Battle of the No. 1’s
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, October 9th, 2009 at 9:56 pm in Oakland Raiders.
A rare opportunity awaits Sunday at the Meadowlands, where each team will start a No. 1 overall pick in the NFL draft.
Starting for the Raiders is 2007 top pick JaMarcus Russell, whose weight and work habits have predictably come under the kind of microscope that comes with a losing record and horrendous statistics.
Common sense says his opponent will be David Carr, a 2002 No. 1 overall pick who knows exactly what Russell feels like after being proclaimed a bust with the Houston Texans and being dumped in favor of Matt Schaub.
In theory, New York could start Eli Manning, who ruffled some feathers by wanting no part of San Diego after being taken No. 1 in 2004 and maneuvering himself into a deal to the Giants, but the smart money says there’s no way they risk worsening a case of plantar fasciatis against a 16-point underdog.
All three players felt the barbs of critics, and only Manning emerged with a status befitting his draft selection.
At the moment, Russell can’t do anything right. Can’t pass, goes down too easy, can’t lead a team, doesn’t work hard enough, shows up late for everything but meal time.
Carr wasn’t enough of a leader, held the ball too long, resulting in sacks, and simply didn’t have what it took to lead an expansion franchise to something other than being an expansion franchise. He was decent enough guy, but not someone the organization go above and beyond what it took to be the face of an organization.
If there’s a moral to their story, it lies with Manning, who like both Russell and Carr had his leadership skills questioned _ even by former teammate Tiki Barber _ and ended up leading the Giants to a Super Bowl win over the New England Patriots.
As a rookie, Manning replaced Kurt Warner for the final seven games of the season and lost his first six, getting mocked in the tabloids for being the Manning who wasn’t Peyton.
Without stats measuring up to his brother, the only way he could make it stop was to win a championship.
And Manning accomplished it without the same sort of in-your-face personality his brother exudes in Indianapolis, which is something he has in common with both Carr and Russell.
Of course, both men could learn from Manning in the the most important attribute a quarterback can have other than physical skill.
“He’s worked his tail off since the minute he got here,” coach Tom Coughlin said. “It takes a couple of years and you’re always learning. You never stop learning and Eli would be the first to tell you that.”
20-GAME COMPARISON
How the first 20 games of the careers of Eli Manning, David Carr and jaMarcus Russell compare:
Player (W-L) PA-PC-PCT-YDS-TD-HIT-Rating
Russell (6-14) 507-264-52.0-3,153-15-13-70.5
Manning (10-10) 648-334-51.5-4,105-27-24-69.9
Carr (6-14) 564-307-54.4-12-20-65.4
Next: How JaMarcus Russell compares with other highly-selected quarterbacks through the years after having 16 games of starting experience.
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October 9th, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Huge difference between Carr,Russell, and Manning…
Manning is the only QB to have TALENT around him. Enough talent to overcome his mistakes. He also has an organization with stability and veteran leadership.
As an expansion team, Houston lacked the o-line and structure to groom Carr properly.
Oakland, reverting to worse than an expansion team, lacks the organizational structure, coaching, WRs, o-line, defense, and veteran leadership to groom Russell properly.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Wow
October 9th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
my comment jumped to 1st. lol
October 9th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
MR, you on the board tonite?
October 9th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Mr, where r u???????
October 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Fire The ORG…….
October 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
What is the record.
October 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Nation is still the Nation…
October 9th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
The Organization is out of control
October 9th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Mark, have your dad committed, and hire a GM….
then go golfing….
October 9th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Mr. Davis we are in the 2k’s not the seventies….
October 9th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Okay guys you can post now…
October 9th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
JaChubby is just too fat too slow
October 9th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
“Similar to last week in terms of preparation, good work all three days,” Cable said. “Today, very focused, good execution in all three phases.”
TC always say this,then game-day no phases are ready
October 9th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Fire Cable!!
October 9th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Arrest Cable. Then bring back Chucky!!!!
October 10th, 2009 at 1:01 am
# Crude Earl Says:
October 9th, 2009 at 6:54 pm
morons who can’t even understand Football… talking politics…only in America…California near total bankruptcy and the liberals still think they know it all.
……………
Norco Earl, reexamine the money California spends on prisons to lock up non violent drug offenders, like you. If it wasn’t for your daddy’s money and the lawyers you can afford, you’d be in the clink, too, considering you’ve been high since you were 12. Where’s Brien and Dave, tonight? Dave’s RV break down? Are you guys going to ride it to NY?
October 10th, 2009 at 1:05 am
Also, Earl, take note of all the private contracts to repave these roads and highways that are not that bad. In today’s economy, the only roads that should be repaved are ones with gaping pot holes that can blow out a tire. The rest can wait. But nope, the tax payers are forking over tons of money to these private companies, who are overcharging the heck out of us, and not even using union labor. Most of them are using illegals. This is not a liberal idea. This is right along the lines of Bush’s government the past 8 years. Private contracts, to all your friends. Put that together with the money we spend on prisons and you can see that conservatives are just as responsible as liberals for gutting California.
October 10th, 2009 at 2:47 am
I loathe Sundays now.
WIN DAMB U!!!!
October 10th, 2009 at 3:59 am
Good Morning NATION!!!
October 10th, 2009 at 4:00 am
He’s worked his tail off since the minute he got here,” coach Tom Coughlin said. “It takes a couple of years and you’re always learning. You never stop learning and Eli would be the first to tell you that.”
October 10th, 2009 at 7:02 am
morning 4eva,you’re up early……nightshift ?
October 10th, 2009 at 7:03 am
AL step down please the game has passed u bye u were great now ur killing this organazation on a personal note im going to the game tommorow god help me i should have stayed in florida a couple extra instead of flying back home to ct to go and witness whats going to be a massacre no matter whos starting at qb
October 10th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Sorry,didn’t think before I posted.
4am there is mid-day here.
October 10th, 2009 at 7:07 am
—”Browns DC Rob Ryan called out Trent Edwards on Friday, calling him “no Carson Palmer.” Ryan continued, “This guy (Edwards) always seems to have a lot to say, so I’m going to say the same thing. Let’s go. Let’s get it on, see what he’s all about this week.” Well, Ryan’s defense is awful, ranking last in yards allowed and 29th in passing defense, so Edwards could look a little like Palmer this week”—
LOL, maaaan im glad we dont have that monkey around here anymore, though we still feel the aftereffect… I would love to have picked Trent in the 3rd in stead of JLH…
*siiiigh*
October 10th, 2009 at 7:10 am
Afternoon LMN !! How you doing ?
October 10th, 2009 at 7:13 am
Wish my team luck tonight, Sweden are playing us, here at home, and if we win we have secured a spot in South Africa, in 2010..
October 10th, 2009 at 7:13 am
LMN….no problem.Hope you win tonite.Although I think your mate Bendtner used up all his luck.
October 10th, 2009 at 7:14 am
neilB…
im preparing for some soccer, buying beer, crisps and nuts, trying to figure out how i can transport it all cross town =)
October 10th, 2009 at 7:18 am
watch espnu
October 10th, 2009 at 7:19 am
or not
October 10th, 2009 at 7:24 am
16yearsold….
The only way I can watch the England game is thro’ the net.A lot of upset people over here.
October 10th, 2009 at 7:30 am
RaiderSam…
Sorry ’bout that !!
October 10th, 2009 at 7:33 am
Raiders please turn this around…you know its getting bad when people start referencing Soccer and South Africa.
Jesus, lord in heaven, havent we suffered enough? Football gods, grant us mercy….and save us from “and the liberals still think they know it all.” crap. Its a freaking football board.
“Can I please get someone who wants some of this?”
-Jon Gruden, Raider Practice, circa 1999
October 10th, 2009 at 7:43 am
WOW! I didn’t know that. Look at it – his QB rating is the best among those 3. His completion % isn’t much worse. Manning didn’t turn out too bad…..maybe there is hope.
The difference. Manning kept getting better. Russell seems to be doing worse this year…
October 10th, 2009 at 7:46 am
The difference between the three is that Eli had/has a good O line to protect him.
October 10th, 2009 at 7:48 am
Neil B..
LOL.. yeah i dont care how ugly its going to be, we just have to win, it would be great give Cristiano a hand so portugal can battle it out with the swedes for the last place…
talking about ugly wins, i would love us to beat NYG, though i dont believe it would happen even if they fieled their 2nd team….
October 10th, 2009 at 7:53 am
http://www.csnbayarea.com/pages/albee
October 10th, 2009 at 7:55 am
LMN…
I’d love to see Argentina lose against Peru.Nothing against the country….I just hate,like every Englishman,Maradona.
I always try to be positive when I think of the Raiders,but one word keeps popping into my head………..Custer.
October 10th, 2009 at 8:01 am
16…
good read thanx!!!
October 10th, 2009 at 8:04 am
no just up early as usual Nielb
October 10th, 2009 at 8:06 am
FINALLY Jerry …some real “A.N.A.L.Y.S.I.S.”! Instead of all this tabloid stuff.
Let get down to the real stuff – performance, projection, history. History shows clearly that you CANNOT assume JRussell is a bust right now!
Eli was getting hammered in the media – HAMMERED! For years …now look at him. That guy is really fkin good. Kudos to Tom C for sticking by him even as his job was on the line. You’ve just got to ride this thing out with young QBs until you see that the wheels have fallen off.
Russell vs Manning vs Carr stats are probably not statistically significant all things being considered. Although Russell has the higher QB rating they all looked equally as “bad” to be honest. They all had tremendous problems with their games. What matters is who overcomes those problems and continue to grow/progress. Manning did …will Russell?
Side note: Russell probably has fewer problems with his game than Manning during the same time frame being considered. Russell’s problems are largely a result of his supporting cast trying to get afoot in the NFL. Manning had a strong supporting cast already established. They just stuck it through despite all of the criticisms.
October 10th, 2009 at 8:09 am
The same people hammering Russell now and saying he is a bust are the same people who hammered (or would have hammered) Eli Manning during the same time.
Now look at what he has become.
And one more thing: GET DHB THE BALL!
And another thing: SOMEBODY CHECK THESE DAMN ZEBRAS!
Truth be told – Right after the Zebras called Murphy’s critical/potential momentum changing 3rd down catch a no-catch, I immediately stopped watching. I knew it was going to get ugly from there when the Zebras start makin up new rules (with no explanation may i add).
But I did see the highlights of DHB! 2 consecutive plays 38+yds!!!! ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDIN’ ME! GET DHB THE BALL!!! A catch between 3 defenders in traffic?!?!? Blazing around the edge on a run around??!?!?! Are you kidding me!
October 10th, 2009 at 8:19 am
4eva…
there’s nothing usual about getting up at 4am !!
October 10th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Neil b…
Maradona, one of the greatest thieves ever =) LOL man he was a great player, but a useless coach… Peru will win =)… LOL, well i hope so (too)
October 10th, 2009 at 8:35 am
“Hand of God”,I’d like to show him “fist of neilb”….cheating fat ba$tard.
Off for an early dinner.Enjoy your Saturday people and good luck Denmark.
October 10th, 2009 at 8:53 am
bwahahhahahha….
thanks! im off too =)
October 10th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Russell is taking a pasting now for reasons that some of which are way beyond his control. I have bashed him a little so I can take the high road here and inject
a little fairness. He was pretty awesome at LSU with a great O-Line and good
running backs working under good blocking scemes. He showed good touch on
his throws, so how come this all changes in Oakland ? Draw your own conclusions, but the fault lies in how this team is put together. The O-Line is an afterthought, the passing game sets up the running game. This is quite ass backwards in my opinion. Good teams do the opposite. We are not a good team.
Successful Raider history implies that a punishing run game with effective
medium range passes keep the chains moving and the opposing defense back on their heels so that long passes break their backs. Our team is not following
this proven method and the results speak for themselves.
October 10th, 2009 at 9:47 am
JERRY
If you are gonna throw gossip like this out there at least have the facts to back it up.
“At the moment, Russell can’t do anything right. doesn’t work hard enough, shows up late for everything but meal time.”
You have never ever to my knowledge reported on this.
It seems like you just throw crap against the wall in order to have the big boys flag you.
You have itchy ears just like all the talking heads gunning for notiriety.
We want facts, not rumors that JR has done what you say he has and we want the blog fixed.
October 10th, 2009 at 9:52 am
its called throwing “PIE” ’round heh
October 10th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Hello Nation,
Hidden in the letter that Al Davis sent Kiffin is the reason Walker does not play. He was signed by Lane. AD has apparently told Javon to be the good soldier and he will get paid. He is not playing as a result of resentment by AL
“For example, with the exception of Gibril Wilson, you were involved in recruiting all free agents and determining salaries for them and you were explicit in your desire to sign Javon Walker and DeAngelo Hall amongst others. All were a must to sign in your eyes, Hall in particular, because he played for Greg Knapp in Atlanta and Knapp gave him high grades. Do not run from that now.”
Wilson and Hall are gone! He should have let Walker go but the settlement figure would have been a cap killer.
October 10th, 2009 at 10:18 am
take THAT lame kitten lovers =)
October 10th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Terrapin Says:
October 10th, 2009 at 8:06 am
Let get down to the real stuff – performance, projection, history. History shows clearly that you CANNOT assume JRussell is a bust right now!
RICHOCHET: No, what you meant to say is ‘history cannot GUARANTEE the JaBlubberButt is a bust right now’. I assure you..we CAN assume he’s a bust, and rightfully so.
Now, here’s the bad news for ya…every single qb that is drafted, who struggles, someone rushes to post the above, sans JR, of course. Stating “oh look, so and so sucked as bad as our guy when he started…well WHEWWWWW..for a second there, I thought we were in trouble” only to be followed with the inevitable “I’m glad he’s gone.”
Just as YOU will do.
###################
You’ve just got to ride this thing out with young QBs until you see that the wheels have fallen off.
RICHOCHET: Fallen off? Dude, his wheels have had spike strips thrown under them, multiple blow outs, and he’s currently running on a bald retread, bandaids holding it together, with the green Goop oozing out, hoping to plug the soon to be coming disintegration. It’s the equivalent of a semi driving on one Costco tire.
#######################
Russell vs Manning vs Carr stats are probably not statistically significant all things being considered. Although Russell has the higher QB rating they all looked equally as “bad” to be honest. They all had tremendous problems with their games. What matters is who overcomes those problems and continue to grow/progress. Manning did …will Russell?
RICHOCHET: Hmmm…well…Let’s see. Manning worked his ass off all offseason. Russell hit the buffet table all offseason. Manning learned everything he could his first year. Russell, after going through 40% of the playbook said ‘My brain hurts. I’m going to go get something to eat.” Manning had coaches state “He’s doing everything he can to better himself” BOTH of Russell’s coaches stated “JR has to do more. Has to do extra..you know..those things YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO DO to succeed and be a leader”.
My money says the answer to your question is a resounding NO.
###############################
Side note: Russell probably has fewer problems with his game than Manning during the same time frame being considered. Russell’s problems are largely a result of his supporting cast trying to get afoot in the NFL. Manning had a strong supporting cast already established. They just stuck it through despite all of the criticisms.
RICHOCHET: ohhhhhhh..I see. I thought it was because Russell was lazy? My bad. I thought it was because Russell has horrible footwork, and does nothing extra to work on it..well, silly me. Thought it was because he came in, admittedly, fat and out of shape..again, what was I thinking? And here it’s his SUPPORTING CAST?
Wow. Never considered that it’s not up to the qb to get the ball to a receiver running a route, IT’S UP TO THE RECEIVER TO WAIT UNTIL JR THROWS THE BALL, THEN HE GOES AND GETS UNDER IT.
Thought it was up to the qb to go through his reads. Instead, according to you, the receivers should be yelling out “Yo, Jablubber…HE’S NOT OPEN..I AM. THROW IT UP AND I’LL GO FIND IT”
makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for opening my eyes.
October 10th, 2009 at 10:27 am
start fargas bush is going to get hammered by the giants d. we need to save him for a game we might actually win.
October 10th, 2009 at 10:30 am
exlaraiderseasonticketholder Says:
October 10th, 2009 at 10:05 am
Hello Nation,
Hidden in the letter that Al Davis sent Kiffin is the reason Walker does not play. He was signed by Lane. AD has apparently told Javon to be the good soldier and he will get paid. He is not playing as a result of resentment by AL
“For example, with the exception of Gibril Wilson, you were involved in recruiting all free agents and determining salaries for them and you were explicit in your desire to sign Javon Walker and DeAngelo Hall amongst others. All were a must to sign in your eyes, Hall in particular, because he played for Greg Knapp in Atlanta and Knapp gave him high grades. Do not run from that now.”
Wilson and Hall are gone! He should have let Walker go but the settlement figure would have been a cap killer.
==================================
You’re confused.
Let me help.
Al stating “you were involved” means Al said “I signed Walker, Kelly, Hall, Wilson, and Kwame to ridiculous contracts, and they’ll be here soon. I’m handing out $270 million in contracts to these 5. If the work out, they’re my guys. If they flop, it’s on the HC. Just sit there and nod, Lance. Lance?? LANCE???????
What????
Lane? You sure? Your name is Lane?
Oh..alright..sorry..my bad.
Close the door when you leave, Lance.”
And the ONLY one who was worth HALF his salary was Gabril..you know, the guy who led the Raiders in tackles.
What happened to him?
OH YEAH…he dared to state publicly that he felt the team made a mistake letting Hall go.
BYE BYE GABRIL.
Interesting that Aso said the same thing…
October 10th, 2009 at 10:32 am
Manning is starting for the Giants on Sunday. Archie that is. The giants can rest Eli for another week and stil pick up the win !!
October 10th, 2009 at 10:34 am
wax on
wax off
October 10th, 2009 at 10:54 am
2 defeat the G-men in NY would go a loooooong way 4sure =)
October 10th, 2009 at 10:55 am
We are overdue for a breakout game. The pissants wont be able to stop the pinpoint passing attack of Jaswampmonster and the punch you in the face running style of Fargas/Bush. DHB has a breakout game. 7 catches for 115 yards/two touchdowns.
Shane and Jano keep the pissants pinned deep in their own territory all game long.
Defense shuts down Carr and the overrated running attack.
The outcome is undeniable. You cant argue with facts such as those.
Raiders 21 pissants 20
Happy days are here again!!
October 10th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Actually Manning did not join a team that was nearly as talented as it is today. But remember he was not considered very good in his career nevertheless. He did not compare favorably at all with his brother.
There are many examples of more successful QBs in their 1st 20 games of starting than Manning.
October 10th, 2009 at 11:16 am
We are overdue a new ORGANIZATION….
One that is ran like a real NFL franchise….
October 10th, 2009 at 11:51 am
media let’s up on Russell and after bashing him for weeks, decides to give Him more excuses. No talent around Him, no offensive line, rookie WR, Blah blah!
Offensive line this season has given Russell time to throw= He is not accurate!
He can’t audible out of a run when the defense is putting 8 and 9 men in the box! Dumb?
The reason our run game is bad right now is because of the 8 & 9 men box, because they are daring Russell to beat them and they know what all should is that He can’t!
Teams used to blitz Russell all the time but now figured it is easier to just stack the line.
The reason our defense looks horrible at times is because they are out on the field too long. offense leads the league in the 3 and outs.
Playbook is dummied down because of Russell. He can’t seem to learn even 20% of it. That hurts the whole team. No wonder opposing defenses have such an easy time of it. If you played a team that had a QB who was inaccurate, couldn’t read a defense, can’t audible, no passion at all, but blames everyone else besides Himself. I would love to play that kind of inept offense.
Manning is heads and shoulders above Russell at any stage of His career. To compare the two is ridiculous. To compare Russell to anybody other than Akili, Leaf, Klingler, is lacking football knowledge.
Russell had Davis wrapped around His finger. You tell a 25 year old millionaire that he can do no wrong and will never be benched no matter how bad He plays. Nothing to play for?
Bottom line: Russell in 3 years has not shown any intangible’s to be an NFL QB! Not one! If after three years you still can’t study film, read a defense and still and I repeat still hasn’t learned the playbook! Before you appoligist say “Wussell has had 3 coordinators He has to learn so many playbooks! Stop! This is the same playbook from KIFFIN! 3 years!!!!!
It might be time to admit He is a Bust!
The excuses never stop! Here is more to help you appoligist out!
1. Russell will succeed if we have a new stadium
2. Russell will be more accurate if we plant kentucky Blue grass, this will help hHis footing.
3. If We draft over the next 10 years the #1 overall pick Russell could be good.
4. Tell the Beer vendor not to yell “Beer Here” To loudly because it breaks Russell’s consentration.
5. It is just all BS! What the media and Raiders alike are saying is that every player has to be an all star in order for the mighty Russell to be a good QB. It’s funny that everything else has to be perfect, players, coaching, The setting, the world in order for russell to shine, but yet Russell doesn’t have to be anything!
Go figure! He makes the Money, and you media and fans make the excuses!
When you wake up you are going to have a hang-over!
Giants-34 Raiders-10
October 10th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Thats the second time I have posted that and it didnt get a response either time.
Its either too truthful for some people to accept (I understand the pessimism)
Or its too outlandish to respond to, although in all fairness things much more outlandish get numerous responses.
Does my breath stink?
October 10th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Giants 27
Raiders 9
Fire Cable!!
October 10th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
At this point, a ‘breakout game’ for the Raiders means scoring an offensive touchdown.
You’ve got JaCarcass playing behind a pathetic offensive line, throwing to a rookie wide receiver corps, traveling to the East coast, and going up against one of the better defensive fronts in the NFL.
Not a pretty picture.
Comparing the stats of Russell, Manning and Carr might, on the surface, give Raider fans some hope that JaCarcass can eventually develop into a franchise QB.
What the stats can’t show however, is that Manning and Carr aren’t blathering idiots and JaCarcass is.
One listen to a JaCarcass interview, or a read of his verbatim comments in the press, leaves absolutely no doubt that Russell is a certified moron.
Please don’t tell me about his southern drawl making him sound stupid. It’s not his twang or accent, or drawl that makes him sound stupid. It’s the incoherent content of his comments. There’s no other way to say it: Russell is an idiot.
True, he’s surrounded by a less than stellar cast. He’s not entirely to blame for the Raider’s offensive ineptitude. Perhaps with time and better players around him he can become what we all hoped he’d be when he was drafted number one overall.
But I wouldn’t count on it.
You couple a questionable work ethic with a double digit IQ and the results aren’t likely to please Raider fans.
One thing is certain. Russell will be given every possible opportunity to prove the skeptics wrong. The Raids simply have way too much invested in him to do otherwise. It’s too soon to give up on him, and considering what he has to work with, one can not say with certainty that he’s going to be a bust.
But there’s little reason to be optimistic about Russell and plenty of reasons to be dubious about his future.
October 10th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
well russell will get injured tomorrow, i actually had a dream 2 nights ago not kidding, Raiders won 18-15 lol, a dream thats all it was too bad because i think the GIANTS will humiliate the raiders, I think we should be playing a high school team instead….I would take the points if your betting.
October 10th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
[...] Read more. [...]
October 10th, 2009 at 4:05 pm
RAIDERMANN99: Well said…………….
October 10th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
If JaThrowup goes 0 for whatever in 1st half will Cable finally bench him ?
October 10th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
The Raiders will win. Russell will throw for 400 yards and 5 TD’s! Russell is one of the smartest QB’s to play the game. Al Davis is a genius. His decisions are some of the best ever made concerning scheme and personel. Again Russell is a HOF type QB. Also Russell works really hard and has never been fined. Cable never touched Hansen, hansen is a liar! Why am I saying this?
JOHN HERRERA HAS A GUN TO MY HEAD! PLEASE HELP!
October 10th, 2009 at 5:15 pm
Shark, did Herrera look like J Edgar Hoover in drag with the teal pumps ?
October 11th, 2009 at 12:39 am
Halster: As a matter of fact he did! Good call.