It’s a must, all right
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Saturday, November 14th, 2009 at 10:23 am in Oakland Raiders.
Quarterback JaMarcus Russell used the phrase “must win” in conjunction with Sunday’s game against the Chiefs at the Coliseum.
It’s a term most often utilized for teams in a playoff context, as in, must win to stay alive for a chance to play in the postseason.
Unless you’re as optimistic as cornerback Chris Johnson, who invoked the possibility of eight consecutive “on any given Sundays” all the way to 10-6, the playoffs were out of the picture weeks ago.
Russell is right, though, and here’s why:
– It’s a must if coach Tom Cable has any chance of staying beyond this season. If he loses to the Chiefs at home again, the Raiders are probably looking at 3-13 or 4-12, assuming they can beat either the Redskins at home or Cleveland on the road. Looks like he’ll survive the Hanson affair and the ESPN story, but no way he stays on with that many losses.
– It’s a must if the Raiders hope to put anything approaching even a mediocre passing game on display before the end of the season.
Baltimore’s Joe Flacco was 26 of 43 for 307 yards and three touchdowns against the Chiefs. Philly’s Kevin Kolb _ a backup _ was 24 of 34 for 327 yards and two touchdowns. Eli Manning was 20 for 34, 292 yards and three scores. Tony Romo was 20-for-34, 351 yards and two touchdowns. Philip Rivers as 18-for-30, 268 yards and three touchdowns.
The Chiefs secondary has been a playground for receivers who have put up numbers in a single game similar to what Raiders wideouts have done in half a season.
How about Dallas’ Miles Austin? Ten catches, 250 yards and two touchdowns. DeSean Jackson had six catches for 149 yards and a score, New York’s Steve Smith 11 catches for 134 yards and two scores, San Diego’s Vincent Jackson five catches for 142 yards and a touchdown. Tight ends who found open areas included the Eagles’ Brent Celek (8 catches, 104 yards) and Todd Heap (five catches 74 yards).
In other words, this is the perfect game for Chaz Schilens to return to the lineup and MIA rookies Louis Murphy and Darrius Heyward-Bey to show they’ve learned something over eight games. As for Russell, receivers will never be more open than they will be Sunday.
– It’s a must if the Raiders hope to hold the attention of a large portion of the locker room who will mentally begin mailing in the rest of the season with a loss. Cable says he can see the mountain top. Lose to the Chiefs, and his players will be buried in an avalanche when they ponder the injustice of still having to face Cincinnati, Dallas (on short rest), Pittsburgh and Baltimore, all of whom currently have playoff hopes, although the Ravens could be closed out by the season finale.
Pros like Richard Seymour and Greg Ellis can only do so much to keep younger players interested. Without the occasional payoff of a win, the hopelessness of playing out the string creeps in.
– It’s a must if the Raiders want to begin to get something out of running back Darren McFadden, who has had some of his best moments against the Chiefs and who because of injury and performance, has not approached the promise he’s shown in back-to-back training camps as a runner/receiver.
– It’s a must if the Raiders consider it important to occasionally reward the loyal fan base which is still showing up to watch an underachieving product.
Beating the Chiefs won’t stop the Raider bashing. Nationally, a win will be greeted more along the lines of, “Hey, the Raiders finally found someone they can beat.”
They won’t be taken seriously until they venture into someplace like the Jerry Jones Taj Mahal or Pittsburgh and do some damage.
But it sure beats the alternative.
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November 14th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Who cares what JaMeatball said. He isn’t a leader he is a fat schmuck, completely irrelevant and worthless.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Tom Romo?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:27 am
Rose colored glasses and wishful thinking continue to be the bugle call before the Raiders go out and lay a big fat goose egg.
That fat lazy pitiful excuse of a never was will never be an elite QB. He hasn’t the brains or the gumption to elevate himself past bust status.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:48 am
We will lose
November 14th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
They still suck, no more televised games for the season.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Don’t rule out a tie gentlemen.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
This game will show us exactly how pitiful the Raiders passing game really is!!!! Russell will go 10 for 25 with 125 yrds and 0 TDs 2 Int’s and a fumble.. Hopefully I am wrong..
November 14th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
The Chiefs could play without a secondary and Jabustus and those useless WRs wouldn’t be able to break 200 yds passing.
November 14th, 2009 at 1:37 pm
what if the game ends 0-0
November 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
When’s the last time the Raiders developed a QB?
November 14th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
KK when is the last time you took your meds? I’m only asking because you have posted the same post for 2 weeks now. Its been answered several times by different people. The definition of insanity..
U know
November 14th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
We must draft a QB in the early to mid-rounds in next year’s draft if only to show Ja-slob-cus that the job is not his no matter how little effort he puts into it. My guess is Al picks another safety and speedy WR in the first couple of rounds.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Wow! What’s with all the pessimism? The team is getting a bunch of players back. Come on. Even though russell keeps holding this team back even he can’t be inept enough to bungle this one…hmm
or maybe he can.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
We have all seen enough of Ja-slob-cus to know he can.
November 14th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
When was the last time the Raiders developed a good QB?
November 14th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
FYI:
Mr. Jamarcus Russell’s stats vs the Kansas City Chiefs the first time they met (week 2):
7 of 24 (29.2%) for 109 yds (4.5 yds a pass) no TDS & no Ints for a passer rating of 46.0,
his passer rating has increased since that game.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
I’ve lived and died with this team for 35 years. From Oakland to L.A. and back again. But tomorrow, win or lose, I just don’t even give a damn about this bunch.
November 14th, 2009 at 3:55 pm
KoolKell Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 1:45 pm
When’s the last time the Raiders developed a QB?
====================================
When’s the last time KK didn’t ask this question?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
You guys are a sorry buncha individuals. Defeatist whatsaramigans. KoolKell and his perpetual ? when have the Raiders…etc. etc. The kid JRuss actually acknowledged an important moment for himself. Want him to develop or just throw him under any vehicle available? Give it all a break will ya? Perhaps the kid will finally try to be more accomplished. Moving on is a good thing, unless y’all wanna be stuck in the same mustard gas trench. (Yeah yeah yeah, I hear it already, “can’t get away from the WMD until Al kicks it.”) Reality has long s^cked, so acknowledge that, and wish JaMarcus to do better. What’n the hell is so hard about that? Whining individuals.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
Jamarcus makes a living off of attitudes like that.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
We arent whinning. Not negative. We’re being realists and when you love something so much you become more and more critical about it. If we didnt care we wouldnt even be here or spend so much thinking about the Raiders.
There’s no “better” fan. All this “im a real fan you arent” stuff is BS.
The truth is Davis is burying the organization alive. The whole place is stifled and stuffy aired, the systems are broken. It needs a breath of fresh air to come in and fix all that’s not working. Someone who can see the forest from the trees unlike Davis who is far too close to it all that he looks but he cannot see.
Accountability is a very good word.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
If this is the team who’s future lies in its rookie wr’s, QB and Dmac, then it is pretty clear where they are headed. They show it every Sunday. A win against KC almost seems moot, tho it will probably stay the firing of Cable (who I happen to like only for the simple reason he is the only one who wants the HC job in Oakland, and NO ONE else does). We can all talk about who we need to get, who is a better coach, etc. but you think any body who’s sane would want to coach here? Fire him and it sets us back another season or more. Is Cable the answer, I don’t know. When and if he can win, he wll slowly wrestle some power from Davis and we’ll see where it goes. If this team wants to impress anybody, beat Dallas and Pitt. (or at least compete), then I can start raving. I know back in the day Sunday was a day for padding stats (still is for Lechler). I don’t live in the past, just a fan from the past. Nowdays, discusting.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:31 pm
#21 says alot. Also, the comic relief we must endure with this team really helps balance out the frustration of this ‘bizzaro’ thing AD has going on.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
The Davis people, blame the Refs, Sports Media, Now the Fans.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
The whole phenom of Ja-jokes is hilarious, you gotta admit. JaMeatball, JaMarshmellow, etc. And lols on Russell quotes.
All that will be Russell’s legacy.
If you cant find all that funny you’re dead.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
Using pictures of Russell (on the field, post-game bling, or those fatso pictures), and having lolcat type quotes on there in Russell-speak.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Some think the Ja-Jokes are funny, but when’s the last time the Raiders developed a Quarterback they drafted?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I could see if the Raiders had a history of grooming smooth Quaterbacks, but that aint the case is it?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
The problem with Raiders developing QBs is due to them drafting someone who needs a lot of development and them being dysfunctional and systems broken down and all over the place. Especially for QB an organization needs to be highly stable and accountable to get them to develop. Like Philly, Indy, Colts, etc…stable of coordinators, coaches, admin, GM all kept together for years to allow a QB to fulfill his potential.
Also, it’s on Russell too for half-assing his career and efforts in study etc. Walter MIGHT’VE been a good QB early on if we built the lines right and maintained a core group of coaches around him for 3-4 years.
Again, it’s ultimately on Davis for the system he has created in all this. The whole operations from top to bottom.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
So it’s been 40 years since the Raiders developed a QB they drafted. “For whatever reason”
Why can’t they exploit McFadden’s talents?
November 14th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
The Raiders are not a QB developing type team as they’ve always relied on journeymen FA’s.
And yes, there is a barge load of garbage here if you want a good laugh. It is what it is.
November 14th, 2009 at 4:59 pm
Take Chargers. Norv Turner isnt the best HC, but since they drafted Rivers, they focused on maintaining the coaches together, keeping a system in place, building the lines and a good Defense, not firing Turner if he goes 8-8 because “just win baby, 8 isnt good enough after 14 the previous year, so new coach and new system for my rookie QB”. And with GM/HC running the football department, personnel decisions, control over game-planning, adjustments, etc, then Rivers eventually becomes super-confident in the system, develops as a QB, becomes a damn good one, and NOW, Rivers would be able to get a new HC and OC if need be.
But Davis handcuffs every coach, drafts badly for the most part, neglects so badly the OL/DL/LBs, coaches cant adjust or do things like blitz, or whatever, without Davis’ ok, all this nonsense, and he just expects every year to “just win baby” will happen, should happen. Then fires everyone, gets in more puppets, drafts another QB (russsell) to replace the one he just drafted (walter), and will probably do so again to replace Russell, and the whole organization is like quicksand, there’s no way for a QB (especially) to develop properly or even properly develop (the QB able to mail it in, not accountable, can take days off, half-ass study, without punishment).
November 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
They cant exploit McFadden’s talent because…
The whole offense is handicapped by Russell’s limited knowledge with the playbook. Cant run more exotic plays, or even 3 WR sets etc. Vanilla playbook that Russell STILL cant even execute well or is even confident with (eg, the recent game where he lined them up wrong etc first play of the game).
Also because the NFL is a blocking league. Unless you’re Barry Sanders. But you build the lines right, you focus on that, and you will be able to get more out of the running game, have more wrinkles, etc.
Also coaching is handcuffed by Davis “likes”. I like to see more deep passing and power running please, ensure it’s schemed.
Also, play-calling itself isnt the best. The ability of the coach himself is noobish, unlike a Gruden.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
They cant exploit McFadden’s talent because…
The whole offense is handicapped by Russell’s limited knowledge with the playbook.
————————
Bullshyt.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
KK,
alzheimer’s.com
November 14th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
It’s BS to think that’s BS.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
how do u guys know how much of the playbook jamarcus knows
November 14th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
When they do finally give Mac carries, they’re the same plays Fargus runs. Clueless.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Because it’s evident on the field. How hamstrung they are with what formations and plays they call. Plus, you have a lot of Raiders themselves (coaches, players, even JRs friend Bowe) talking about how little he knows.
Just like you hear coaches talk about how their QBs are so knowledgable with the playbooks the coaches are giving them more freedom to use no-huddle, etc etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
give us the answers then KK….quit with the question after question and give us the answers according to YOU.
Afraid someone will rip them like you do?
November 14th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
May be some rust after lenghty absences by some of our returning wounded but hopefully they will show up and play four quarters.
C’mon Raiders!!!
November 14th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
# KoolKell Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
When they do finally give Mac carries, they’re the same plays Fargus runs. Clueless.
—–
This is true again because of the evident…Davis’ likes. I like to see more deep passing and power rushing. And because Russell isn’t adept with much of the playbook. Think about how complex Sean Payton’s playbook is, taxing on a QB to know so much of it. Each play in a playbook has multiple details in it about suggested audibles, hot-reads, cadences, alignments, calling the play in the huddle, and requirements like “motion TE to slot, look off safety, pump-fake to read 1 and throw to read 2 who is on a hitch and go and route”. Etc. A playbook is a very complex thing. You guys underestimate what a playbook is. Thinking a Russell actually knows it well. Brees is still learning his playbook. Roethlisberger about 80% knows his playbook.
Think about Payton’s playbook, how he utilizes Reggie Bush, and Thomas, the complexity involved to disguise stuff or ensure stuff works whilst also ensuring Brees has fall-backs in place in every play if the play goes wrong or he needs to audible out of it. Stuff like singleback 4 WR set, having one WR on a screen drop, play-action to Bush, then pump-fake to the WR screen drop, then look off a WR deep before throwing to Bush in the flats. Etc.
Having total mastery of all those complexities and being able to execute them, ensure all players are correctly aligned, or adjusting their routes at the LOS, etc. This all comes from immense dedication in film, study, and training, including one’s own weight management to be agile and nimble. Wrestle a playbook by the horns and become a true leader of the offense. Someone who everyone knows they CAN rely on and is switched on.
McFadden is hindered by Russell, but also by Davis/Cable’s play-calling game-planning. Dont forget last year against KC even McFadden had to tell his coach to use the fake FB dive HB toss play at the goalline to get a TD. Cos instead, Cable is just out of his depth being a puppet to Davis’ schematics.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Plus, you have a lot of Raiders themselves (coaches, players, even JRs friend Bowe) talking about how little he knows.
——————————————————
Show me one quote from a player or coach that says they have limited the playbook. Steve Young said that on opening night and some of you have really ran with that.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
KoolKell Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
They cant exploit McFadden’s talent because…
The whole offense is handicapped by Russell’s limited knowledge with the playbook.
————————
Bullshyt.
============================
Russell’s limited knowledge of the playbook was talked bout extensively earlier in the year during many games.
Still doesn’t excuse the lack of bubble screens and the play calling when handing the ball off.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Now if they made the play book to look like a McDonalds menu:
The burger is the play, how many orders of fries is the formation and blocking scheme, and the drink is the snap count.
-Happy meal with a coke (JR goes deep)
-Big Mac (lets keep it simple here)
-1/4 Pounder (Fargas right side) add cheese for an play fake
November 14th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
i havent read anywhere that russell doesnt know the playbook
November 14th, 2009 at 5:38 pm
Cmon GG …
So you expect a complex playbook with 3 WRs who had a combined ZERO catches coming into the season?
The expectations of our passing game are unreal. Sean Payton’s playbook? Cmon!
There is not ONE skill position player on our team that would start for NO. NOT ONE!
Our offensive line has had 4 guys starting in Morris, Satele, Carlisle, and Pears who probably have a hard time making a single roster in the NFL.
We have a coach who chooses to be aggressive with that group despite the fact that HE SAYS he knows better.
I just don’t know of ANY QB who would have success with NO WRs, or Oline.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
You don’t have to. Just look at the first set against the jets. Ability to audible. See many 2 minutes? Too many time outs early in the game.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
Nnamdi21 Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:32 pm
KoolKell Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
They cant exploit McFadden’s talent because…
The whole offense is handicapped by Russell’s limited knowledge with the playbook.
————————
Bullshyt.
============================
Russell’s limited knowledge of the playbook was talked bout extensively earlier in the year during many games.
Still doesn’t excuse the lack of bubble screens and the play calling when handing the ball off.
—————————————————–
Where Nnamdi? Other than the commentators doing the game. Show me where any of the coaches or players said that?
With the passing game struggling, it makes sense to scale it back to a handful of plays that both the QB and the WRs feel comfortable with. Not quite sure how that translates to the STARTING QB not knowing the playbook, lol!
November 14th, 2009 at 5:45 pm
So Island …
You’re telling me that Tom Cable, a coach who NEVER had as much as an offensive coordinator position in the NFL, has this extensive playbook that the QB hasn’t learned?
LMFAO!
Where did he get this playbook from?
And why does the offense look just like what we saw in 2006?
I submit that there are only 3 formations in Cable’s playbook. The I formation, the shotgun, and the 2 TE set.
Cable, the ROOKIE playcaller, is the one learning on the job.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
the first play of the jets game where bush didnt know to motion and jamarcus had to tell him how is that russells fault
November 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pm
How often have you heard JerryMac mention how Russell cant even execute a simple dump to McFadden in the flat or a bubble screen. Inconsistent, so often miscues those then hits Miller deep on the H-seam, then passes a little too behind McFadden next short dump pass, then totally overthrows a WR, then he hits a WR well on a hitch route, then he one-hops a pass to the feet of another WR, then he fumbles the snap, then he lines up the offense wrong, then he hits McFadden on a route, then he miscues and is intercepted next play…..all this in training day in day out, camp and weekly regular season.
So handicapped by all this that come game day they cant afford this kind of erratic play. They have to tone the book down to the literal 2 or 3 things Russell can do ok enough, like handoff to a RB on a predictable I-form dive play, or playaction bootleg to Miller on the H-Seam, or dump to FB in the flat. Just do those three things ad naseum and wait around giving that $40m guaranteed #1 QB another 2-3 years to lift a gear, already a 3-year vet, tho guys like Freeman, Sanchez, etc can dedicate themselves and be more ahead in their development than Russell within the space of 1 year.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
russell never threw 6 picks in 1 game
November 14th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
I actually saw their minicamp playbook from OTAs. man, I have a PhD and my heaad was swimmin. you forget or selectively forget that they changed EVERYTHING AGAIN! I’d lke to see any of you armchair qbs get this playbook which is VERY complicated & master it in a few months. this guy knows the playbook & he made 1 mistake aligning the players up wrong- big deal, it happens. and for thoseof you that think there is no accountability, Hackett ”verbally abused” Russell after the Jets game to the point that they were not speaking Monday or Tuesday. I’m tired of every1 speculating and not knowing what they’re talking about. there is more to this situation that meets the eye. you can’t develop a qb in an unstable environment. look at ryan and flacco now that teams have film on them…they are not as great as they’re made out to be. I agree with priest, everyone else gets the benefit of the doubt except russell. he has nothing to work with but he’s expected to make chickensalad from u know what. why don’t the fans try getting behind the guy instead of driving him into the ground every chance you get. he’s young and he is still learning (2nd season starting) and if he had weapons that he could trust, hed be ok. look at his college career- he trusted his supporting cast and he compiled a 25-4 record with 66.7% completion rate. I refuse to give up on him because he has not been given the opportunity to succeed. when he’s given the chance to succeed and given ample opportunity to develop, it is not conceivable to call him anything other than a work in progress.
and GG, please back up your statement where his teamates have said he doesn’t know the playbook. bowe talked about his leadership and work ethic…nothing about him not knowing the playbook. get ur facts straight.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:53 pm
Ok, so now you’re saying because of his erratic play, not his lack of knowledge, that the playbook is reduced to simple plays he can execute?
Glad you backed off of the he doesn’t know the playbook stuff.
I will just simply ask you this …
How is it that Russell can complete such a high percentage of passes to every position except the WRs?
I’ve seen McFadden drop more passes than any RB we have. Russell the Muscle, Fargas, and Bush have NO problems catching the ball from Russell. NONE of the TEs have problems. Just the 3, and ONLY 3 WRs we have had the first 8 weeks of the season.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
I’m not blaming it all on JR either. Read what I’ve written. It’s ALLLLLL davis’ fault. It’s his broken down systems etc in place that cause all the problems. Everything from drafting a bust-to-be Russell, to putting that QB in a dysfunctional environment, to hiring noob Coaches with no control or play-calling experience, to neglecting the DL/OL/LBs year after year, to handicapping coaches with players they didnt want drafted, to handicapping them with such high-development projects and very few pro-ready players, the tyranny of control, and the impatient lack of GM-skill himself to constantly fire coaches etc around all this mayhem.
Every facet of the team is not working well and part blame goes to the players themselves for being not that talented or mailing it in types who half-ass and collect a check, to coaches who are handcuffed puppets but ALSO not very good either, to the yes-man Nazi-like bunker Davis has built for himself to live in self-denial.
Each and every one of those facets is to blame….but ultimately it ALL starts at the top, and that is where the blame originates. Why a breath of fresh air is needed, a highly reputable GM (like Parcells etc) to come in and kill all the weeds and put the trash out, clean up the place and instill accountability, and set up new workable systems for scouting, coaching, etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
# 16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
russell never threw 6 picks in 1 game
—–
that’s because they dont trust him or put the game in his hands enough otherwise he WOULD throw 6 picks a game. they ensure he does very little too, just handoff handoff dump to FB/HB pretty much all the time. Yet even the few times he does get to throw downfield he gets picked off and fumbles enough.
sanchez/stafford in those pick 5-6 games….they threw the ball like 30 times and pretty much every throw was downfield to WRs. I watched the Lions-Hawks game very closely, and if Russell was asked to do what Stafford was, just throwing deep every play to a WR, he wouldve got picked 20 times in that game.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:00 pm
Parcells?
Cmon man!
Parcells the GM has ONE more win the Al the GM.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Still waiting on those players coach quotes GG.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
calvin johnson, braylon edwards, and jericho cotchery are very different than dhb, louis murphy, and johnathan holland
November 14th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
I love the guys who say that we have one of the worst coaches, the most dysfunctional environment for QBs, no WRs, and no oline, but STILL blame the QB.
No Oline
No Coach
No WRs
Hmmmm
November 14th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
If he worked out in the off-season and studied that “playbook” I would cut him some slack.
However, he didn’t….and you with a PhD didn’t grow up reading playbooks so of course you didn’t understand it. But the rest of the rookie QB’s at least did their work and started out successfully before there became “books” on them.
Jamarcus has done nothing…on or off the field.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
and lets just ignore the fact that he is getting paid 60 large for doing nothing.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
JerryMac has posted the stat often enough…
JR’s QB rating passing to WRs is something like 3.8 Something beyond abysmal. QB rating means incompletes vs attempts and INT vs TDs. Russell might throw like 10 times to a WR a game, resulting in like 3 picks, 3 incompletes, 1 reception, 2 sacks and 1 fumble.
If Russell was asked to do what Stafford/Sanchez were in those games, he would throw 20 intercepts.
Also, to JHill…
Russell does NOT know the playbook well or much of it at all, AND he also cant execute what he does know well either.
Hence, an offense and play-calling that is handicapped.
Then on top of that, add incapable play-calling (Cable), handcuffed HC with schematics (Cable), and a GM/Owner running the whole ship abysmally (Davis).
November 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
rdt do you not remember the camp he held for wrs at his house
November 14th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
JerryMac has posted the stat often enough…
JR’s QB rating passing to WRs is something like 3.8 Something beyond abysmal. QB rating means incompletes vs attempts and INT vs TDs. Russell might throw like 10 times to a WR a game, resulting in like 3 picks, 3 incompletes, 1 reception, 2 sacks and 1 fumble.
If Russell was asked to do what Stafford/Sanchez were in those games, he would throw 20 intercepts.
Also, to JHill…
Russell does NOT know the playbook well or much of it at all, AND he also cant execute what he does know well either.
Hence, an offense and play-calling that is handicapped.
Then on top of that, add incapable play-calling (Cable), handcuffed HC with schematics (Cable), and a GM/Owner running the whole ship abysmally (Davis
——————
calvin johnson, braylon edwards, and jericho cotchery are very different than dhb, louis murphy, and johnathan holland
November 14th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
they were throwin deep a ton early on and he didn’t have as many picks. the ints came when he started ”trusting” his guys to be in their ‘’spots” & throwing to those spots. this offense calls for the receiver to be in a spot and the qb to throw to that sopt- if he’s not there, it results in a ton of picks. again, ur speculating and making things up i.e. ”he doesn’t have 6 picks because they don’t trust him to throw the ball x amount of times…” that’s fallacious argument because its grounded in conjecture. get rid of hackett & the offense particularly the qb will improve.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
# Random Drug Tester Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
If he worked out in the off-season and studied that “playbook” I would cut him some slack.
However, he didn’t….and you with a PhD didn’t grow up reading playbooks so of course you didn’t understand it. But the rest of the rookie QB’s at least did their work and started out successfully before there became “books” on them.
Jamarcus has done nothing…on or off the field.
———————
do you not remember the camp he held for wrs at his house
November 14th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
and held out thereby throwing away a full year for not just him, but also his team-mates.
The same team-mates whose best words for him are usually that he is just starting to do the things he needs to do, just to even have a shot a being any good.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
rdt do you not remember the camp he held for wrs at his house
———————
Who went? What did they do? How long?
Got together and played Madden for all we know.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
# Random Drug Tester Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
rdt do you not remember the camp he held for wrs at his house
———————
Who went? What did they do? How long?
Got together and played Madden for all we know.
———————–
are you blaming him for everyone not going
November 14th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
If there was progrees, continual progress instead of regression, one could see the brighter side. The proof is in the production. Yes, the HC is learning. Does he have the brightest players to work with? No. Does he have the authority to discipline as he sees fit? I doubt it. AD’s inability to maintain consistency, his ability to overpay his employees, and to handcuff his coaches are his problem. But it is evident who studies thier playbook, and who doesn’t.
And I still maintain Cable is the best coach for the Raiders simply for the only reason is he wants it. No one else does. I will be more patient with him any day than over paid employees who fail to put in the work they were pre-paid for. It is evident. Look around the league. 16, Tell me more about that passing camp.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
next we will have to thank him for coming in an hour early on one Wednesday.
Another empty gesture.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Also, to JHill…
Russell does NOT know the playbook well or much of it at all, AND he also cant execute what he does know well either.
——————————————————-
Ok GG, if you say so, man.
Down The Bay is right.
You do know that Cable and Hackett are West Coast offense guys, right? You do know that all of that is based on timing, NOT Russell waiting on a guy to be open. It makes ZERO sense for you to assume that the QB is the one missing the spots when every other position doesn’t have that problem.
16 is right. What about the passing camp he had? What about Schillens saying they worked together all off season? What about the coach saying that Russell was at the facility all summer?
Cmon, stop making shyt up!
November 14th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Omg Russell held a ‘camp’ at his house for a few days. That should be enough, that’s all a pro-QB needs to do. Just sign off, take days off, not study day-in day-out all hours like a Gannon, Manning, etc, let yourself go off-season till you look like a 9mth pregnant woman. Great.
Read between the lines of what Gallery, Ellis, Cable, Tollner, Bowe and Cable’s words are….study, work ethic, etc = playbook and film study. That’s a QBs bible.
Russell was always a bust-to-be and he is equally to blame for his laziness here as Davis is for creating the dysfunctional system, lack of accountability, and neglect of OL/DL/LB etc.
The ONLY reason Russell has been given such a long leash is purely because of how much he got paid. Walter got like 6 games and that was it. ONLY because he was a 2nd round pick who cost nothing. In regards to Walter, he HAD a chance to be good early on, IF Davis properly GM’d at the time, building the lines, maintaining a stable of good X-O coaches around him for a few years, etc. Walter would’ve turned out good enough for us. But Davis wrecked him AND kept making the same organizational/scouting mistakes year after year.
Such that Russell IS a Walter now, except he’s been afforded FAR MORE opportunity and patience than Walter was ever given unfairly. Walter now isnt much chop at all. And Russell now and onwards will end up out of the NFL too.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
Also, remember this is the ultra-secretive Raiders. They often spin words around to hide stuff. So knowing that the Raiders are so like this, YET you have so many people (teammates, his own coaches, friends (Bowe)) coming out and making so many public criticisms of Russell using ‘abstract’ language like “work ethic” is really something huge.
The Raiders to even make a peep like that is = to another team coming out airing dirty laundry so publicly like L.Johnson vs Chiefs/Haley, like J.Lewis, other Browns staff players and former Jets associates vs Mangini. Like Holmgren vs Synder re: Zorn, etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
Ok GG,
Your mind is made up, so it is what it is.
Is Russell what Al Davis had in mind when he drafted him #1 and spent 40 million on him? Of course not, nor should he be. 2 Head Coaching changes, 4 different playcallers, no oline, no WRs, and this is his 2nd year as a starter.
Andrew Walter caught the Jim Everett disease and was scared to take a hit. 2006 ruined him, and there is not ONE coach out there who will play a scared player.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
how do you know with cartainty what he did in the offseason? again, repeating what you heard, not what you know. he held a camp in Mobile and only holland, murphy & watkins showed up. what do you want him 2 do, take the wrs hostage? I know with certainty that he worked this offseason. did he go peyton manning, no. did he work hard to learn the NEW playbook? yes.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Hey 16 year old
Did 
bhp (we all no what that stands for) 
ever come up with tickets to the game for you 
November 14th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
An NFL football camp run by Jamarcus Russell and a couple of receivers likely not on the team anymore.
Nobody went because it was ridiculous, something the Big Man on Campus would think is enough to get the Coach or whoever is watching off his back.
You do your personal work on your own, and you do QB-WR work in camp…like a true professional.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
I wish they did work together all off season. Prepaired and studied. Maybe they’d be pretty good right about now. They are not very good right now and hopefully Cable will be given some leash to do as he sees fit and get this team headed in the right direction. It is what it is.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
For you to REPEATEDLY refererence these players and coaches saying something about Russell, you should be able to give us at least ONE link to back that up.
The ultra secretive Raiders?
Spinning words to hide stuff?
And you want us to read between the lines, right?
Cmon, dude. You are putting WAY to much thought into this.
Take any team you want, give them the worst Oline in football, NO WRs, LBs who over pursue, and you will have a team that is 2-5 or worse.
It’s not that hard.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:39 pm
RDT,
I think a lot of us would beg to differ. Personally, I would LOVE to see our players spending more of their off time working on their game.
There were no reports of Russell missing camp, so if he wasn’t working on getting better during camp, maybe that’s on the coaches and their game plan?
November 14th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
It is the coaches fault. Al doesn’t get down to field as often as he used to.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
I believe he was fined for missing a meeting and sleeping in another.
You don’t suck at 7 on 7 drills all camp long and then cure it by calling a privately run camp with 3 nododies for a long weekend.
Only somebody who has never had to account for himself would think that would fly.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
GG, spinning words? so no matter what your mind is made up. & why does everythg go back to the holdout? market value mean anything? he has a good agent & he was advised to hold out. ryan nor stafford had to hold out and both got more money than russell. do you see a problem with that? I do but ill refrain from bringing race into the equation. there is something wrong with the system and you can’t blame the players for that. the system dictated that the #1 pick got x amount of $$. its funny how stafford and ryan both got more money & I’ve never heard them classified as greedy or undeserving. fix the system and that ends the holdouts. if the agents know that the #1 money doesn’t go up every year then there’s no negotiating, you just come in & play, that’s pretty simple. but when the signing bonus money goes up every year and the market value goes up for #1 every year, then it will continue in this direction. heck, crabtree wanted top 5 $$ and was picked 10th– you can’t blame the holdout on the player totally. the nfl is a business, but they only want it to be a business when you’re 30 and they cut you and throw you on the street regardless of how much you’ve given to the team. when you want your $$, then its all about loyalty and love of the game etc. so they don’t have to pay you. the business side is what causes holdouts and you have to separate the two. put q rookie cap in place and there are no more holdouts period.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Sounds like your mind is made up JHill.
You tell me “your mind is made up” in a derogatory “youre wrong” manner.
But have you considered that you made up your mind about something that is incorrect?
You will not find a more objective person than me anywhere. But the mind is made up correctly because the proof is in the pudding and the pudding is a 50 foot work of art in a Museum of Truth.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Couldn’t agree more, Island!
I subscribe to the theory that the players are salaried employees, and practice ends when you say it ends.
At a minimum, these guys are at the facilty 8 hours a day. If Cable is not starting practice or meetings until 8, then that’s on him.
How about starting the QB meeting at 6am and extending it to 2 hours? Instead of relying on the employee, why not MANAGE the situation? Where is the QB/WR workout in the 8-5 day? Why isn’t that workout longer?
And it’s not just the QB/WR!
How many times do we see the defense blowing assignments? Over running gaps?
Bottom line is this management staff does not have this team ready to play on a weekly basis.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
‘believe he was fined for missing a meeting and sleeping in another.’
that’s untrue. he didn’t miss any meetings. you believe? who confirmed it? again, heresay but no facts. just say you don’t like the guy & get it over with. boomer esiason lied on national tv and everyone ran with it. why wasn’t this reported locally? because its bs, that’s why.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Sounds like your mind is made up JHill.
You tell me “your mind is made up” in a derogatory “youre wrong” manner.
—————————————————–
Don’t try and read between the lines and paint me out as a bad guy. That is not what I meant at all.
I said JRuss should have been benched in week 2. I even said that I think Frye should come out of the bye week as the starter, so give me a break with that, man.
My mind is not made up on #2 yet because of the things I say like no oline, and no WRs. You, on the other hand, already have him labeled as a bust. That, to me, sounds like your mind is made up.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
you still havent responded to this calvin johnson, braylon edwards, and jericho cotchery are very different than dhb, louis murphy, and johnathan holland
————————-
# GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
# 16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
russell never threw 6 picks in 1 game
—–
that’s because they dont trust him or put the game in his hands enough otherwise he WOULD throw 6 picks a game. they ensure he does very little too, just handoff handoff dump to FB/HB pretty much all the time. Yet even the few times he does get to throw downfield he gets picked off and fumbles enough.
sanchez/stafford in those pick 5-6 games….they threw the ball like 30 times and pretty much every throw was downfield to WRs. I watched the Lions-Hawks game very closely, and if Russell was asked to do what Stafford was, just throwing deep every play to a WR, he wouldve got picked 20 times in that game.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
He was asked by a reporter, he deferred to a Raider spokes-person. They later confirmed it had happened.
Also fined for attending camp over-weight too wasn’t he?
November 14th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Anyone else getting the fight? If so, you got to spend the extra ten buck for the HD.
I had a great day on the games today, and have a bunch of dough on the fight not going over 9 rounds.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
1. Sanchez/Stafford did not hold out for 6 months demanding a few extra million and language to absolve them of slacking off.
2. Sanchez/Stafford were drafted two years after Russell so naturally they get paid more due to the current system.
3. Sanchez/Stafford never let themselves go physically.
4. They didnt fritter away their rookie year holding out and slacking off learning the playbook but got into camp early and worked hard to actually earn the starting roles.
5. Both have shown progression in their MINISCULE amount of games started in their rookie year. Only week 9 ffs!
6. Russell cant even throw downfield bar the H-Seam, cant handle more than 2 receivers downfield running routes.
7. Something to criticize the Raiders coaches/Davis on here….if they wanted Russell to play better they should’ve built him a shotgun heavy playbook that he was more comfortable in college. Like the Niners are doing with Smith, like Titans with Young, etc. It’s not really good to do that tho, cos it ruins the talent they have at RB, ruins the run game. Still, the Raiders are very traditional, run a pro-offense, Air Coryell power rushing, so they need Russell to become adept under center etc for the whole scheme to work. But Russell isnt very good, or dedicated, and nor is Davis smart at football common-sense, neglecting the OL etc, which is paramount to having a successful Air Coryell scheme.
November 14th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
ou dont suck at 7 on 7 drills all camp long and then cure it by calling a privately run camp with 3 nododies for a long weekend.
Only somebody who has never had to account for himself would think that would fly.
man, I wish I could copy the stat sheet from ota’s. this guy was like 80% passing on several occasions. they keep a running tab of passing % and he was off the chain. what the media saw vs what I saw on his stat sheet was night & day- maybe he was bad during the open sessions but ever Jerry mc reported a marked change towards the end of camp so he couldn’t have ‘’sucked” that bad. to your point, holding a personal passing cámp is EXACTLY what someone trying to get better and someone who’s responsible and accountable would do. again, you blow that off as if its common. for a 24 y/o with loads of cash, its not common 2 do that in the offseason but he did. make up your mind, he puts in extra time & you blow it off as insignificant. he reportedly misses a meeting and you take that as gospel & use it to fuel your own argument. with fans like yourself, he’s in a catch 22.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:01 pm
stafford got paid about 70 mil 45 guaranteed before the draft davis should have done that with russell sanchez has the biggest contract ever given to a jets player so dont start that
November 14th, 2009 at 7:06 pm
#
Don’t try and read between the lines and paint me out as a bad guy. That is not what I meant at all.
I said JRuss should have been benched in week 2. I even said that I think Frye should come out of the bye week as the starter, so give me a break with that, man.
My mind is not made up on #2 yet because of the things I say like no oline, and no WRs. You, on the other hand, already have him labeled as a bust. That, to me, sounds like your mind is made up.
——-
I agree with you about the OL, WRs etc. But you’re mistake is putting it ALL on them and none on JR. He is supposed to be a franchise QB and offensive leader. That means becoming a Gannon/Manning. Whip in hand, an OC.
JR is like the guy in class who daydreams, doodles in his book, chats up people sitting next to him, then goes home and sits on the net all night instead of doing his homework, leaves it till the day of submission for his assignment due, tries to get study notes off of someone else, half-asses everything, etc, knowing he’s a sacred cow on scholarship, and the rest of the class is 50% of the same types, while another 50% are diligently working hard and resent Russell, especially as some/most of those are either defenders breaking their backs to keep the Raiders in games, or offensive players who are supposed to come under the leadership of this guy.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
LOL at it being Russell’s fault that the contract didn’t get done his rookie season.
You can’t be serious!
And it was all over language to allow him slacking?
WOW!
November 14th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
‘both have shown progression in their MINISCULE amount of games started in their rookie year. Only week 9 ffs!’
compare their #s to russells over the last 6 games of last season. 90 qb rating…neither of them compare to that. has it ever occurred to anyone that he played way better at seasons end and when hackett tollner came in he tanked? good coaches mold their system to fit the qb, not the other way around. get rid of hackett & the qb plays better. he’s probably the least supportive qb coach in the nfl. he doesn’t care if russell fails & he has said as much (in private of course). he apologized to Russell after the giants game for calling a crappy game in particular on 2nd down. he has not done his job as qb coach at all. his goal was not to groom russell but to demote him to 3rd string behind garcia & grads. he came is with a bias and he still has it. hackett is dead weight and should be replaced. how else do you explain the lack of development of the qb? poor coaching coupled with poor environment & poor relationship bwn russell & hackett is a recipe for disaster…as evidenced each sunday.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I know people have opinions on Tebow in the pros as a QB. Forget that tho. Because no one knows yet if he will or wont be good etc.
But the Raiders would be so much better if…
1. Davis ceded more control to a proper GM/HC
2. We drafted Tebow to be that type of leader, high work-ethic, whip in hand, strong character etc.
3. Opened the checkbook to a disciplinarian true X-O HC in Gruden, who, importantly enough, is very high on Tebow and wants to draft him for whomever he coaches in 2010, and who this very season HAS been studying the Wildcat for his next coaching gig.
Three strong point-man leaders….the much reputed GM with years of proven reputation, the disciplinarian X-O HC, the young franchise QB with years of proven dedication, leadership, and good raw pocket QB skills that he definitely has that such a stable organization COULD then mold and develop into a successful pro-QB.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I agree with you about the OL, WRs etc. But you’re mistake is putting it ALL on them and none on JR. He is supposed to be a franchise QB and offensive leader. That means becoming a Gannon/Manning. Whip in hand, an OC.
JR is like the guy in class who daydreams, doodles in his book, chats up people sitting next to him, then goes home and sits on the net all night instead of doing his homework, leaves it till the day of submission for his assignment due, tries to get study notes off of someone else, half-asses everything, etc, knowing he’s a sacred cow on scholarship, and the rest of the class is 50% of the same types, while another 50% are diligently working hard and resent Russell, especially as some/most of those are either defenders breaking their backs to keep the Raiders in games, or offensive players who are supposed to come under the leadership of this guy.
——————————————————-
The sad part about all of this is you wouldn’t be saying half of this if he talked like you. Most of this doesn’t know the playbook and stuff is because the guy is a country boy, plain and simple.
The fact that you excuse the Cutler’s, Delholmme’s, Cassell’s, Anderson’s, and all the other bum QBs in the league is crazy.
Sanchez? Look at the Jets game 1st year starter vs. 2nd year starter. Ryan ran the ball, Cable chose to pass the ball. End of story.
Stafford? Did u see the photos of him partying on the boat with all those honeys this offseason? CMON! And where is our Calvin Johnson?
November 14th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Then focus everything on DL/OL/LB in a few drafts. Have enough talent now at WR, RB, TE, DB. But top up those every couple of years.
Hold that all in place for 3+ years (the coaching stable/system).
In a few years you will have guaranteed Raiders as AFC West division winners and regular playoff team.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Just need to catch-up with everything everyone is posting. So give me time to properly read what everyone’s posting. Plus, Id like to hear other people’s thoughts/observations, have more people contributing to this discussion.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
stats are cool too…
http://media.nola.com/saints_impact/images/Saints-TDs-graphic.jpg
November 14th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Btw, I hate the Saints. Im a Raiders man thru and thru.
I am so critical because I love them so much and we want/demand/expect so much better in every facet of the team, from top to bottom.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Looks like Payton made the right choice.
All Als’ meddling has really come home to roost. The Raiders have such a mountain of problems, you have to wonder if they’re fixable. I really hope Cable can manage this team into something. The talent is there, but is the heart? Is there hunger? The Raiders need more than a win Sunday. They need a blow-out. An avalanch type blow-out because they need some serious steam. The defense to me seems self correcting if the meddler stays away. Maybe a block or two from a back to help the o-line, and a little less predictability from the play callers and who knows.
I’m tired of talking about individuals. It’s a team game. They need to play like a team.
It is what it is.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
#105
That just spins my head. It’s all thet in a nutshell.
Pathetic. But on the bright side, we have nowhere to go but up.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
I’m not thrilled by the fact that our Coach’s biggest asset is the fact that he wants the job.
I wish Al would hire a GM and/or personnel guy so that I knew for sure that he wasn’t calling all the shots and all the plays and schemes.
I do know that with a proper organizational structure a lot of this stuff would end, but a lot of players would be gone also.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
Where’s Dude?
On my way to the emergency room with two broken ribs. Been out all day and just got wind of the SC/Stanford score. LMFAO! It’s painfully funny.
Told you SC can’t win anymore since they stopped paying the players.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:47 pm
What those stats indicate with the Saints is a mirror to what we were able to achieve when we had…
1. Allen GM … someone for Al to bounce off at least and take heed of.
2. Gruden HC … true XO student and disciplinarian.
3. Gannon QB … true leadership and ability.
4. Trestman OC … genuine OC skill.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
We need a RT, RG, and probably a C. And scrap the lousy ZBS.
We need a mofo MLB, and a run-stuffing, RB-swallowing DT.
Unfortunately, we will probably need someone to replace Seymour too.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
Scoring 6 total TDs, and only about 3-4 offensive TDs, so much reliance is placed on the defense to contain teams as much as humanly possible, to try to keep their score to about 10-13 pts a game JUST to even TRY to offensively have a shot at beating that score. Which is so ridiculously hard to do if you only have a threshold of about 10-13 pts to work with.
And that the whole offense, which begins at the QB and filters thru to the WRs, OL, play-calling, is abysmal. There’s no excuses for it, no “but give them time, we’re gonna turn a corner soon”…it’s all BS that is proof in the pudding in every facet.
Grrrrr.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
#109
It all starts at the top. And I even diagree with myself about Cable. Als’ ‘bizzaro’ is workin me.
#111 would be a God-send.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Here’s my personnel moves:
I would cut bait with Tommy Kelly to open cap space. I would also try to trade Nnamdi since his money is guaranteed. Nnamdi is no leader. He’s just a good player. When Routt replaces Nnamdi in the lineup this year and last year, we are 3-0. Routt can play Nnamdi’s side but not the slot. Chris Johnson is also gone and I would draft a corner in later rounds or sign free agent.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
RDT…
Agree completely.
We need major influx of OLmen, young draftees and vets. Instead of drafting the seasonal 3-4 project WRs and DBs, we need like 3-4 OL and 2-3 LBs, our DL is ok for now to focus on the OL/LB firstly.
Thing is, you really need to annually keep pumping in OLmen and LBs and DLMen into the roster to increase the standard of them. Minimum like 1 from each in a draft of 7 rounds (3/7, but ideally like 4 or 5 out of 7 GIVEN the current poor state of neglect those three areas are in.
November 14th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
For all the Warriors fans out there, if your not watching, Brandon Jennings, rookie for the Bucks, hit his first 11 shots in the 3rd quarter, and had 29 IN THE QUARTER AND HAS 53 IN THE GAME!!!
Nelson is an idiot.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
In all my years of watching football I have only witnessed (3) Head Coach/play caller & Quarterback tandems where they were both in sinc and had (=)equal understanding of the offensive philosophy and playbook.
1. Jon Gruden/Rich Gannon
2. Sean Payton/Drew Brees
3. Tom Cable/JaMarcus Russell
November 14th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
nice 504.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
I agree with trading Nnamdi. He’s not part of the solution. Get a couple of good CB’s or CB and draft pick, whatever we can get. The cap relief would be welcome too.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
good evening guys. whats the word with chaz? is he starting? if so i guess they’ll sit murphy instead of dhb. maybe dhb will have the attention taken away from him and catch a ball or 3. i hope dmac gets 15-20 carries so we can judge him properly also. lets just hope the hash marks dont show up for this game. always tackling dmac. damned hash marks
November 14th, 2009 at 8:23 pm
LOL at the Warriors giving up 55 to the rookie!
November 14th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
new england raider is calling it folks. we win 20-16 dhb 1st career td
November 14th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
nelsons teams have always put 0 effort into playing defense. although they did ok vs dallas a couple yrs ago
November 14th, 2009 at 8:26 pm
a friend of mine is from mil. has been hypin this kid all summer and now also
November 14th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
who will win the fight cotto? pacman? i like to see pac win but cotto looks a lot thicker. i say cotto 9th rd ko. if pac wins be by a split decision
November 14th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Guy’s everyone is pretty black and white on Russell, they either want to call him a bust or say he does have the tools. Truth is somewhere in the middle.
Russell has been slow understanding what he needed to do to be great. Now that he has come to grips with that we should expect improvement. Now that he has some nice weapons wecan expect to see something more representative of of an up and coming talent.
To say that Russell didn’t put any rffort forth during the off-season is an out and out LIE. Those are the comments that do the argument injustice. People tend to lie on this kid in order to make their point. Now ask yourself why that takes place? PURE HATRED!!
We all agree Russell has a long way to go, he needs to be consistent in his effort to get better. But this team has done very little right to help him grow. That has to change along with his effort. The next 8 games will tell us a lot because he finally has the team we all thought we had around him. If they can stay healthy, we should expect to see an offense that has some pop to it. Some explosion and the ability to put some points on the board.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
20 pts NE?
That would be nice to see. That would mean that Cable ran the ball and utilized the PA passing game instead of calling 4 verticals from the end zone.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
im talking to myself. if anyone is there good night
November 14th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
jhill. is chaz starting? is he 100%?
November 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
I don’t know about that Priest.
To me, it all rides on the play calling. If Hackett and Cable still try and force the timing patterns with the young WRs, then I don’t think we are going to see much improvement.
Chaz has been out for a while, so expecting more than 3 or 4 catches from him might be reaching a bit.
We really need to take advantage of the slot WRs position now that the team is healthy. Between DMac, Murphy, and JLH we should be able to get some production out of that position instead of it just being being Miller over the middle.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
priesst u take a lot of abuse here. but you are like 90% right on a lot of stuff. i respect that. very interesting posts
November 14th, 2009 at 8:35 pm
I don’t know if he is starting NE. Or if he is 100%.
I do know that he is expected to play a lot.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
I guess it will kind of answer itself, NE.
If he’s healthy enough, he should start and play a lot.
Let’s hope he comes back in the same form that he left off with in the preseason. It could only help.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
hey yall should check russells high school film on youtube. dude was 228 and ran a 4.6. he needs to understand that his weight control will allow him to be the qb he can be. in his psser to anounce his entering the draft les miles reiterated that. he has to put in as much effort towards his body as well as his game.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
Everyone was so quick to write-off Walter given 6 starts in that horrendous environment, etc.
But there’s this percentage of fans that mimic Davis about impressing how much more time Russell should be afforded and how it’s all everyone else’s fault not his, and how it’s too early (3rd year now, no excuses for such a bad regression) to call him a bust.
Yet….it was totally ok to crucify Walter after 6 starts, and he had a worse OL.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
that’s all that I’ve been saying…he lacks self-discipline and any sense of accountability.
that comes off looking like a lack of dedication and is a drawback to him leading the team which rubs off on the other “rookies” and causes the Defense to pack it in at times.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
people knock russell cuz of their ignorance. i make no apologies for his immaturity but alot of people here just go bezerk over this guy. atleast have the facts straight. and downbythebay is right about this hackett combo. jr has regressed since being the qb coach so he should take some heat as well. ive felt for a while now that maybe this particular coaching combo isnt the right fit for him. there is no relationship u can feel between him and cable. evry qb coach has some kind of chemistry u can feel and i get no sense of that from these 2 at all. cable will get fired at the end regardless of how we end up and it may not be a bad thing.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:47 pm
Armond,
Again I ask why Russell is not in a mandated workout program? I mean, why do we have a strength coach?
Another issue that falls under bad management, IMO.
Practice ends when the coach says it ends.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
And the only reason Russell is given such leeway is due to the $40m guaranteed #1 pick.
If he was a 2nd rounder, one would actually afford him more leeway, being supposedly “less” talented etc. But this is a #1 pick who its incumbent on to quickly within 2 years establish himself as CAPABLE, with evidence of a high ceiling that is being reached with every passing week.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
a lot of our guys get injured, and often.
Where is the conditioning coach.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:50 pm
NE, thanks, but I don’t really let it bother me too much because I expect it.
Jhill, as I said before we kicked off the season we must run the ball and use PA to get the ball downfield. If I were Russell I would focus on DHB early to get Chaz open. Because if he starts off forcing the ball to Chaz the defense will take him away and then you’re stuck if DHB can’t come through. If he can force the defense to cover DHB then we have the entire field open.
However first and foremost run at KC with Bush and Fargas and get DMC in open field.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
GG,
Cmon with the Andrew Walter stuff. Walter simply folded under the pass rush and was scared of getting hit. The writing was on the wall as soon as he started crumbling before the rush even got there. It was an awful system, and very dysfunctional. But once a coach senses that you are scared, you have no shot. The fact the he is not even in the league should tell you something about the guy.
Not to mention the fact that he didn’t even want to be here.
November 14th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Misread me about Walter. He HAD a chance to become good for us IF Davis built an actual OL paramount, and a stable OC/HC situation. Had Moss. Just if it was done right and held that in place for a few years, instead of chopping and changing and neglecting OL/DL/LB.
But cos we didnt, then Walter was a sitting duck, scared, etc as you say. Lack of confidence, thus inability to develop.
We’re doing the same with Russell now. But my point was more about how everyone is so wanting to afford Russell 50 years to “turn a corner” yet the same people so quick and happy to crucify Walter after 6 starts and call him a bust.
Hypocritical. Cos it’s only the salary/pick# that is the reasoning behind the fans and Davis having that massively long leash on Russell.
He still hasnt earned the starting job really, and like you said, JHill, Frye would’ve been more capable for our offense at least. Also Gradkowski who is experienced in Hackett’s system.
Again, blame Davis’ silliness that he hires Hackett and insists on Russell instead of a QB is probably better at sustaining drives at least. Just capable enough that we arent so putrid on offense.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
GG, you should work on getting the facts straight first. You are errand on too many of them. All Walter had to do is show that he was interested. He wouldn’t even do that. And talk about showing leadership Walter was a sorry excuse for that. His dedication to the game makes Russells loook all world. Walter didn’t even show up for the QB camp the held in march.
Walter did about 60% of what Russell did to show he wanted to play at this level. If he had we could’ve gotten a 3rd rndr for him. We had to damn near cut him.
Had Walter worked as hard as you guy’s want Russell to work, Russell wouldn’t have even been drafted. Walters priorities are all screwed up.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:03 pm
Who wants to give Russell all this time to develop?
Last I checked, he was getting booed out of the stadium and crucified on most blogs.
To your point, Walter had Randy frickin Moss, Jerry Porter, and other experienced WRs. Al drafted Gallery in the first round, and Grove in the 2nd rd. Walter was able to sit behind Collins and actually get coached by Turner, a real QB coach and OC.
I hardly see the comparisons to the current situation.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
If Walter was a bust after 6 games (to you guys happy to make that call so quickly), then Russell is a bust after 3 seasons. Same circumstances, same situations, same dysfunction and disinterest, same OL problems etc. Same everything except the guaranteed money and pick#.
But you guys want to say we’re premature to call Russell a bust?
That’s my point.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Preperation=Performance.
The results are poor. All the coddling in the world ain’t gonna make him a better player. Sure maybe he needs a better qb coach, maybe he just needs to buck up and take charge, doesn’t matter. The environment is dysfunctional.
Sunday will be a test. The opportunity will present itself. What good fortune to go up against a bad KC team at this time. Dmac, keep him away from the middle. Have a back lay a block for more pass protection. Become less predictable. They need a blow-out. Raiders need to dominate. Nothing less.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:10 pm
Walter ENDED UP being a bust the minute he lost interest in the 06 season. You could just tell he quit on the bed and breakfast production.
Once the fans saw that he was scared of the pass rush, and couldn’t hit Moss or any of the other WRs, then he got booed.
Now you have to ask yourself why Al decided to draft another QB that offseason.
You also have to ask yourself why Walter couldn’t get a sniff from Kiffin, even though he supposedly didn’t like or want Russell?
Why did the organization give up on him and go with another QB #1? Especially with Calvin Johnson and Adrian Peterson on the board?
November 14th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
the thing is, russell generates so much “excuse-making”, so many always trying to defend him and afford him more time/leeway…”give him better receivers etc”….ie, 2010, 2011 etc. so 5 years before they wanna label him.
always excuse making for russell. walter got none or not much. why is it every other qb in the universe (non-raiders, or raiders) is allowed to be objectively critiqued and labeled, but russell is always excuses and more time, more weapons?
imo it’s because raider fans/davis are afraid to believe that we did indeed blow another wasted pick and threw money away. “No, surely not, we’re bleeding from pain already for too long, please please not another lol at the Raiders and bust on our hands”.
If he isnt already a bust, (if i were to grant you that), it’s inevitable he will be given the dysfunction etc. Given Davis’ messed up structure etc. Will be, meaning this year, next year, the more years the worse it will get. Especially if this Davis structure continues.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:16 pm
GG, you are sadly mistaken or just flat out lying, because I don’t ever remember reading anything about Walter being a bust that season. I just remember Kiffinnever giving him a chance to compete in the pre-season for the starting job. Walter has NEVER EVER taken 20% of the criticism Russell has endured. Now you’re just flat out lying. The first time I remember people starting to hate on Watler was in Russell’s second year when he came in with Tui and they bothe stunk up the joint. Walter looked like he hadn’t even prepared and then admitted as much talking about his religious beliefs when he was beinh paid to perform. I thought Walters best bet was to stay here behind Russell in case Russell failed he could look like a hero. But he wouldn’t even give the coaches a reason to keep him.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Hey 16, I may have some tix for ya’ I don’t have them in hand but they have been promised to me and you’re welcome to them. When I get them I’ll let you know.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
jhill u are right on about the coaches making it a mandate instead of giving the players options to come in early or not. bottom line is we will be getting some new coaches next year i believe. i dont think al davis will watch much of this any longer. cable will finish theyear but i dont think even a massive turnaround will save his job.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:26 pm
eg, so many of you are professing sanchez, stafford busts after 8 games.
“lol @ sanchez 5 picks, haha, bust, i feel good about myself now cos that Russell he never threw 5 haha”.
truth is, sanchez isnt a bust after half a season. But russell is closest QB in the league currently to being legitimately called a bust after 3 years.
i didnt like the russell pick at all, but even i wasnt that harsh to label him a bust after a handful of games. But this year was his litmus test, everyone agreed, he HAD TO step up and prove his talent this being his 2nd full year of starting now.
or as jerry said, russell will be QB unless he does a major faceplant. people carrying on like russell isnt/hasnt faceplanted this season. trying to use derek effing anderson’s woes as a justification for why russell therefore deserves more time etc.
anderson is some midround pick with a low ceiling and ability, always was. russell was a hyped #1 pick with bundles of talent etc. and it’s lame to use the 32nd worst QB to try to make the 31st worst QB out to be a good qb deserving of time, excuses etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
If you look at what Harbaugh has done in 3 short years at Stanford. You can only hope he is the next HC of the Oakland Raiders this guy has star HC written all over him. And he is one a few coaches Mr Davis would trust right off the bat. They go way back and think very highly of each other.
I also feel Mr Davis would loosen the purse strings quite a bit to lure the young Harbaugh from Stanford. In thre weeks he has dominated to powers in Oregon and USC. Now I guess you guy’s see why I would take him over Gruden he is a complete HC. And is a outstanding talent evaluator not just a great motivator. He is exactly what Russell neeeds at HC in terms of guiding him. He played the position and he knows what it takes to be a pro.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
anyone who denies that walter was labeled a bust after his first 6 games and how much heat he copped from raider fans is living in denial.
as always, there is always a 50:50 split here…there were many who defended walter and said he deserved more time a better OL etc, and the other half contantly loling and hating on him as a bust.
same with russell here….and it seems like those who crucified walter are the ones hypocritically defending russell.
both of them deserve the criticism and degree of leeway….meaning russell shouldve been benched this season after the coaches saw how pathetic he was, and gone with garcia or grad/frye if they were legit about starting a qb who “gave us the best chance to win”. ie, someone capable enough to sustain a drive and actually deliver well enough to WRs. unheard of 3.8 QB rating to WRs. That’s all on Russell. People think grad/frye are worse? if they started it would immediately show how bad russell really is, Davis afraid to do that cos he knows it would highlight how bad russell is.
the time gradkowski got a few snaps against chargers he actually delivered the ball to wrs often enough, was something like 4/7 for 30 yards, a couple of first downs. Russell is unbelievably terrible.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
This GG guy just wants to argue, most of the stuff he says doesn’t even make sense. No One that I’ve read has said that Stafford or Sanchez are bust.
He makes stuff up just to argue, it gives him a chance to rip Russell which is all he wants to do anyway.
Waste of time!!
November 14th, 2009 at 9:38 pm
priest can u explain to me how a 3rd round pick can be a bust? walter wasnt expected to play that year. he only played cuz of aaron brooks being a waste of a roster space at qb. walter was a quitter and a baby. i remember him talkin about his religious beliefs too. can u imagine jr pullin what walter did but they make excuses for him tho we all know he quit on this team. he refused to go to qb school but every1 wanted to jump on the big counrty dumb negro cuz it was convienant. if jr is lazy then what the hell is walter?he has no job and probably is done for all we know.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:39 pm
As I’ve said about Cable, so it goes. But bringing in a new coaching staff gets nowhere. Who is it going to be? Who? Wishful thinking. All good coaches won’t come here. This place sucks the life right out of them. Who, other than a hope. The only coach for this team is Gruden, for many reasons. But you want Cowher or Holmgren or Parcells or Shanahan or Gruden or Dungy or Greene or who? Maybe an unknown or an unproven. The word is out there, I don’t see it. Who would want to work for Al other than Cable. Payton. Could of had Payton?
Briging in a new staff gives JR and the rest another season of excuses for futility. Do I think Cable is a great Coach? No. But he wants to be here and NO ONE else does. And I think he will work harder to be a better coach.
What the heck, Maybe Zorns’ looking for work next season.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Armond, precisely what I said. Walter flat out quit!
Never showed any drive or leadership close to what they demand from Russell. I really don’t remember anyone calling him out or saying he was some kind of bust. They just said he wasn’t the answer after that fiasco of a performance when Russell got hurt last year.
As I said GG is your run of the mill hate-monger looking for any reason to blast away at Russell………..period
November 14th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
i agree about harbaugh. watchin stanford whip usc made me think that its gonna take a kings ransom for davis to get him but that is a risk worth taking. he also has the type of offense that would fit what we should be doing now. that is a tough physical football team. they are tough cuz he is tough, mentally and physically. i like the fact the he is a qb as hc and he was more of the bullish kind of player than some quirky cerebral guy.he knows x’s n o’s but he has a swagger this team needs also.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
how about whengrad came in and had 3 ints dropped by the opposing defense
November 14th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
LOL …
I actually watched my first Stanford game in full today to get a preview of who we MIGHT hire as a HC.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
# new englandraider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
priesst u take a lot of abuse here. but you are like 90% right on a lot of stuff. i respect that. very interesting posts
Lambe
November 14th, 2009 at 9:48 pm
cg i never said sanchez was a bust i just said russell never throw 6 picks in a game
November 14th, 2009 at 9:49 pm
Time for the USC fans to put their gear away, and pull out the Laker stuff…lol
Stanford put an old fashioned butt whuppin on SC. I’m VERY impressed with the way Harbaugh has that team playing. That Gerhart (sp?) kid is a run away Bull on the field.
Everyone has a price, but I don’t see Al coming close to the price it would take to lure Harbaugh away. Hell, that goes for any good Coach that is out there…
November 14th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Why on Gods’ good earth would Harbaugh leave Stanford?
November 14th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
LOL, NE
No one wants to talk about that. I mean 3 picks that were CLEAR walks into the endzone if the DBs hold on to those.
But I don’t fault Grads. It’s the same argument I have for #2. You can’t expect ANY of our QBs to be successful with 3 WRs who have a combined ZERO NFL catches, or an Oline that STARTS Pears, Carlisle, and Morris.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
At least i understand what a debate is, i contribute points, make case for/against stuff. some of you just like to make ad hominem replies to/about me as a way to ‘debate’. as tho that proves you right or something.
i dont mind being proven wrong at all. at least JHill posts good reponses and food for thought. priestj you have a bad habit (and there are others) who just wanna sit back in your chair and rip on people.
kudos to anyone who is FOR or AGAINST me who provides good points, and genuinely contributes with info and observations.
nothing personal against priestj or whomever. all types of posters out there, and youre all (imo) good football analysts etc, as i am too. it’s not a pissing contest, just raider fans discussing/debating stuff.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
islandraider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Why on Gods’ good earth would Harbaugh leave Stanford?
—————————————————-
Why would he stay at Stanford?
STANFORD?
LMFAO!
November 14th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
i liked cable getting his shot but so much has happened under him we may have to just break completely away from anything connected to kiffin. what the media has done to cable is very evil and tho i have my issues with the coach he isnt getting a fair shake. HOWEVER, he hasnt impressed me at all this year with his game management. no wildcat when dmc is healthy is ridiculous. i question his relationship with russell. there is no bond between the 2 u can see on the sideline. most coach qb combos are synonomous with each other but this one looks completely akward. to be honest i dont think russell cares for him 2 much which could explain his regression and also his lack of conditioning being worse.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:52 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Armond, precisely what I said. Walter flat out quit!
Never showed any drive or leadership close to what they demand from Russell. I really don’t remember anyone calling him out or saying he was some kind of bust.
bhp
(we all know what the bhp stands for) 
that’s because greazeball al 
would fire anyone in the orginization that would call JR 
a bust 
BTW did you :mrgeen: ever get the kid his tickets to the game 
November 14th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Pul-leeeeeze, 25-30 mill would get Harbaugh here by morning. Are you guy’s kidding me. Mr Davis offered Sean Peyton 38 mill over 6 years.
He also offered Petrino 35 mill over 6, If he really wants you and he is confident feels good about what he’s getting, money is not an issue……..contrary to popular beliefs.
Mr Davis would pony up plenty if he really wants the guy.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
OK Cool Jhill.
Why on Gods’ good earth would Harbaugh leave Stanford?
And come to Oakland?
November 14th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Raider fans loyal to Al Davis and his system are the equivalent of Nazis or Al Qaeda members, except a lot dumber. Tell me you morons wouldn’t kill for Al Davis. I’m telling you, anyone with the intellect to still believe in Al Davis is capable of killing for Al on demand. Only such a dire loyalty could explain a remote faith in someone who is such a failure.
November 14th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Armond,
I think Cable just bit off more than he can chew. Why he would choose to wear so many hats as a first year HC with ZERO experience is beyond me. He should have been smart enough to bring in an experienced play caller. For the life of me, I don’t understand the Hackett/Tollner combo. You would think that he would have hired to guys who have the same philosophy instead of 1 WC guy and 1 vertical guy.
I really don’t know if I want to see Cable fired, to be honest. I do know that I want to see a lot of things he does changed.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:00 pm
“Mr Davis would pony up plenty if he really wants the guy.”
Better hope that Mr. Ed….errr…I
mean Mr. Davis 
has a motorized wheelchair. Here comes the bullies 
:twisted 
that used to make you 
pee your 
when you 
was a kid 
Speaking of kids 
did you 
ever get tickets for 16 year old:?:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
It’s not about what Al wants or if Al likes someone or not.
It’s about whether these good coaching prospects want to put themselves in a situation where they can be fired for cause, have very little control over certain important facets.
PFT story/rumor on Davis/NFL working together meaning Cable fired for cause. How often has Davis knifed his HCs. Shell pt 2 (a friend too) he knifed him to get out of paying him money, fires coaches on Xmas day, shanahan, kiffin, perhaps cable all attempts to get out of paying money. Fox ran away in a thunder of anger and depression. etc etc.
All this is illogical…GM not accountable to himself, handcuffs HCs with players they didnt want drafted, forces them to stick to certain schematics they arent to veer from, etc, then fires them without pay cos “you failed, not me, you shouldve been able to polish the turd i produce”.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
islandraider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
OK Cool Jhill.
Why on Gods’ good earth would Harbaugh leave Stanford?
And come to Oakland?
—————————————————–
LOL!
That was a good one, Island.
I agree with Priest on this one. If Al forks up the dough, there will be more than enough coaches lined up for the gig. There are only 32 NFL head coaching jobs, and they ALL pay AT LEAST 2 million a year.
Gilbride, Fassell, and others were lined up last year, that we know about.
When has giving up $ ever been an issue for Al Davis?
I’d actually settle for keeping Cable and bringing in a quality GM and OC.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
GG, then talk facts anyone can make all kinds of loose allegations and statements without merit.
If you post a cohrent argument then we have something worth discussing but to just say whatever for argument sake. That doesn’t engender substantive discussion, that’s just one wild accusation after another. Then expecting someone to rebutt it? For what?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:05 pm
The Real MaddenRaider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 9:57 pm
Raider fans loyal to Al Davis and his system are the equivalent of Nazis or Al Qaeda members,
Tell me you morons wouldn’t kill for Al Davis. I’m telling you, anyone with the intellect to still believe in Al Davis is capable of killing for Al on demand.
——————————————————
Now THAT is hilarious!
Nazis and Al Qaeda?
WOW!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
priest if u get the tickets just tell me when and ill get them
November 14th, 2009 at 10:08 pm
bhp
(we all know what those initials stand for ) 
Di you 
ever get tickets for the kid 
Why don’t 
you 
tell the posters on this board how your daughter-in-law 
got you :mrgeen: an illegal prescription for Viagara 
They will love it as much as the posters on the other board 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Name a top-level coach that would want to come in here and have his future tied to Jamarcus as his QB?
Just asking.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
jhill it may be too late for new coordinators that matchup with the talent. there have been way 2 many blowouts and regression by key youngsters to give him a fair shot. i also think how easy crabs by the bay has gotten more catches than hayward east bay will give credence to question why he hasnt gotten more plays run for him. not sayin this will happen but a gut feeling and somewhat logical opinion.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
did anybody see the fight pacquoi was beating cotto down especially in the early rounds
November 14th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
# 16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
priest if u get the tickets just tell me when and ill get them
Time has run out
but you 
can have his daughter-in-law 
write you 
an illegal prescription for Viagra 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
GG
There is not ONE coach in the league who has total control of his roster. Like Al pointed out in the Seymour PC, even Belechick had to ask Kraft for permission to trade Seymour.
Every coach who has been fired from the Raiders since Gruden left DESERVED to be fired. Tell me ONE guy who shouldn’t have been fired?
The problem is AL trying to discover the next John Madden. Hire an established coach and GM, and get on with this!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
wouldnt a top level coach make russell a better qb? coaches get paid to make teams better regardless who is on the roster. if a better qb would make us better then wouldnt a better coach make russell better?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Random Drug Tester Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Name a top-level coach that would want to come in here and have his future tied to Jamarcus as his QB?
—————————————————–
Let me turn that ? around.
If Cowher, Dungy, Gruden, or Harbaugh came to the Raiders, do you think they would start Erik Pears, Chris Morris, Carlisle, and Satele?
Do you think they would allow the QB and WRs to go on like this? Or would a change have been made?
Do you think Jeff Fisher would allow his QB to not be the hardest working guy on the team?
Heck, look at Kiffin. Even KIffin kept the kid on the bench until he was ready to play. Kiffin started Curry and Lelie, no way he would have started DHB, Murphy, and Watkins. NO FRICKIN WAY!
Cable needs to stop trying to impress AL and realize he already has the job.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
did better coaches make Jeff George better?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
Exactly Armond!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Al cannot ‘buy’ anybody he chooses. They know they would come and have to “ploish his turds”
Not everyone is greed driven.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
I could make Jamarcus a better player.
Switch him to left guard.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
# 16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
priest if u get the tickets just tell me when and ill get them
I’m
guessing 
that if your 
phone ain’t ringing , it’s not butwholepreek 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Jhill, Great freakin’ post #189, the best part is when you say Cable needs to stop trying to impress Al Davis and realize he has the job. Nothing could be more true IMO
November 14th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
I know HCs, even GMs, dont have total control. That’s stating the obvious. But the reality is HCs here have far less control generally speaking, and/or are meddled to death with, dont have much pulling power to get the ones they want drafted, get certain players cut or depth chart changes.
Article/quote a few weeks ago about how Crabtree was wanted by members of the staff but Davis insisted on DHB. For example, stuff like that makes it extra hard on HCs (especially when they’re noobs with very little expertise) to polish Davis’ turd.
Gruden could because he’s a genuine XO guy, a disciplinarian too. Knows what he’s doing and isnt ever out of his depth in football. Plus Bruce Allen was there as a soundboard who was payed heed to as well.
The more Davis chokes total control and surrounds himself with shills and puppets, the worse it’s always going to be. It would be good if Gruden did come here simply for the fact a) he would know what hes doing, b) he would get more control than what others have gotten….and those two things at least would result in better W-L record season to season. Would be an actual competitive team, not this 44-0 type embarrassment that Cable presides over.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
GG,
Let me ask you this …
What was your impression on Russell at the end of last season?
Assuming you were on board with most Raider fans, it really looked like we had something to build on. It was WELL documented that Russell was at the facility as soon as the season ended.
Now picking it up from there, with all that promise, what happened?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
16, I got you………..You’ll know when I know.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
There is not ONE coach in the league who has total control of his roster. Like Al pointed out in the Seymour PC, even Belechick had to ask Kraft for permission to trade Seymour.
Maybe so, but Kraft probably said: You do what you want, you’re the head coach. I trust you and have confidence in you. Plus, I agree coach, an early draft pick won’t hurt us.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
A lot of things have to change for Jamarcus to be an NFL quarterback, both internally and externally.
So far, none of that has happened. He can only control the internal factors….and I haven’t seen any of that yet.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
jeff george wasnt horrible in minn
November 14th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Gruden could because he’s a genuine XO guy, a disciplinarian too. Knows what he’s doing and isnt ever out of his depth in football.
—————————————————–
Have to stop you right there GG ….
Shouldn’t that right there be what all HCs bring to the table.
Obviously, we haven’t had “a genuine XO guy, a disciplinarian too. Knows what he’s doing and isnt ever out of his depth in football.”
Couldn’t have said it any better myself!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
what great coaches did jeff george play for? ted marchibroda, jerry glanville joe bugel? gruden is the only one i could think of but he also didnt fit the west coast type of offense gruden ran. kinda like how we are suppose to be running that with jr who isnt that kind of qb. yall hate on jr so much u make excuses for your arguments more than the “apologists” supposedly do. let me ask u did gruden make gannon a better qb? dont bother askin cuz we know the answer. u just got owned.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
4 kriste sake butwholepreek
Herrera is outside the coliseum hand tickets out to the winos 
Get the kid 
a ticket 4 crying out loud 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:26 pm
Maybe so, but Kraft probably said: You do what you want, you’re the head coach. I trust you and have confidence in you.
——————————————————
You mean like Al told Kiffin when Kiffin wanted Moss traded? Even settled for a 4th round pick instead of a 1st rounder.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
spare me the internet pwnage…Jeff George had all the talent in the world. But no coach could extract it out of him. He was uncoachable.
Some guys just have enough talent to get you fired.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:27 pm
jhill Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:10 pm
GG
There is not ONE coach in the league who has total control of his roster. Like Al pointed out in the Seymour PC, even Belechick had to ask Kraft for permission to trade Seymour.
……….
Oh, Al said so, so it must be true…
The reason Al said that was to rationalize his meddling to fans that are dumb enough to believe it.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
and it wasnt his play exactly that got him in trouble it was his head
November 14th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
GG, No other owner has Mr Davis’ background. No other coach talks to the owner and have the owner question the technigue he’s teaching. No other coach talks to the owner and have to explain every football nuance and gthe owner know more than he does.
Coaching for Mr Davis poses a special challenge because he knows tooo much. You cannot fool him with coach speak he knows what he’s seen before you tell him.
If you have spent any time with Mr Davis he intimidates coaches because they are often shocked just how much he knows about the game. He often knows more than his staff. It’s like coaching for Coach Wooden. I know most of you will never undestand this but he sits there and takes the game apart as he watches it. He is like no one else when it comes to that. That’s what makes it so difficult. You cannot fool him and you can’t patronize him. he hates both.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
Time for fans to be heard . . .
http://evoltees.com/savethenation.html
November 14th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Moss needed a good team and coaches to bring him back to life.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Al was basically saying, “Kraft is just like me, he meddles to”. Yeh, Al, Kraft is just like you, and the records reflect it. What a dumb, old, piece of shyt!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
# priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:20 pm
16, I got you………..You’ll know when I know.
He
says: “16, I got you………..You’ll know when I know.”
He :mregreen: means: “hey kid
I 
didn’t think 
that you 
would call my 
bluff 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
Random Drug Tester Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:22 pm
A lot of things have to change for Jamarcus to be an NFL quarterback,
—————————————————-
Agreed. And by an NFL QB, I don’t mean living up to the expectations of a #1 pick who got 40 million.
First thing is we need to solidify the Oline. Look at how the Jets ran through us with their 4 first round picks on the OLINE!
Establishing the Oline will establish a dominant run game. Russell HAS to have a solid running game so he can run PA. The young WRs will develop, but I think I might pull the trigger on Boldin or a a true veteran top notch WR.
Russell will NEVER be Peyton Manning, but he could EASILY be Eli, lol!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
JHill, to your two questions…
1. Russell showed promise end of last season, no doubt. The proof was in the pudding! But again, remember what I emphasized…the blame goes to EVERY facet and person. Russell, the rookie WRs, the OL, the coaching, play-calling, scouting, GMing. But…you know yourself it all starts at the top, and the whole thing comes from that. Baby out with the bathwater.
2. About “genuine XO guy”….we do agree on many things you know. That’s definitely part of the problem…lack of suitable right HC. But again, starts at the top…if the Owner insists on GMing and throttling so much control, meddles HCs to death schematically and roster-wise, the quality of HC candidates is not going to be there. We all know guys like that avoid coming here. Last chance saloon is the current Raiders HC vacancy in the current Davis tyrannical structure. If he hired a genuine GM, like Bill Polian is my favorite GM out there, someone of that caliber, hypothetically, and Davis stood back, no doubt we’d see a vastly different functional organization than the one we have the last x years. We’d get good coaching candidates, players would come here for less money too just cos they eventually see there’s a genuine SB caliber team here etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
priest, coaches just shine Davis on. He is dumb enough to fall for coach speak. He even admitted that Kiffin duped him. Kiffin gave him just that when he was interviewing for the job…coach speak. Remember Davis crying about that like a jilted woman? Talking about how Kiffin played the roll and told Al he wanted to be part of the tradition? Al is still reeling from having to fire Kiffin. If Al was as smart as you say he is, he would have nipped Kiffin in the bud from the get go, and never hired him. Al’s an idiot. There may have been a time where Al would challenge coaches and what not, but today the coaches are either his puppets, or they shine him on. Al finally catches on to their game way too late.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
i’ve been saying forever that bill polian is the only guy that drafts like davis wants but he will never leave indy especially with peyton there
November 14th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Oh, Al said so, so it must be true…
—————————————————
Well actually I think it’s true because it kinda makes sense that a HC would need to run a trade of that magnitude by the owner. No matter WHAT team it was.
You think Sean Payton could trade Reggie Bush without the owners OK?
Think Phillips can move Felix Jones since Choice has stepped up?
How about Reid trading McNabb since he likes Vick and Kolb?
CMON!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
“Coaching for Mr Davis poses a special challenge because he knows tooo much. You cannot fool him with coach speak he knows what he’s seen before you tell him.:
Sounds like Mr. Ed….err…I
mean Mr. Davis 
is smart enough to fool butwholepreek 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
plus al probably will never hire a real gm
November 14th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
And it really cracks me up how most in here will insist no coach wants to come here. But you all say that we should take Gruden back. Because you really believe he wants to come back. Now if it is so bad to coach under him why in hell would someone as special (your opinion) as Gruden want to come back here?
Isn’t that a contradiction of major proportions?
The truth is the only reason Sean Peytn didn’t come here is he was intimidated. Same with a lot of coaches they will say other reasons and a lot of them are true. They want more control that’s true, but a lot of them are intimidated too. Trust me.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Youre wrong priestj about Al Davis. Davis knows football very superficially. It is one of the more exaggerated things out there that Davis is this genius XO guy. Davis’ actual coaching knowledge is very thin. He only knows the Air Coryell, and only knows football of the 60’s/70s era, when there were far less tactical wrinkles in the NFL than there is now. The game tactically has evolved and become more complex with every passing year. Davis is just an owner/scout type of football mind. He is not a Belichick type XO student of the game. It is far more prevalent of actual modern coaches to know so much more XO stuff, study it immensely ceaselessly. It’s like how mechanics every year have to know more and more about cars due to increasing technology etc. An owner of a mechanical repair shop who likes to purchase cars and own a workshop knows very little compared to actual mechanics, especially masterful mechanics.
Al Davis is myth. This whole “one man” thing. Al Davis is not Paul Brown. Paul Brown literally was a football god. In every sense of the word. Davis is just some shrewd hard-nosed businessman who fell into football as a way to make money and an interesting “hobby” for him (the tactical side).
November 14th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
# 16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
plus al probably will never hire a real gm
butwholepreek
is pandering for the job 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
i said real gm
November 14th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Priest makes a good point …
Al is just an old ass coach, man!
Emphasis on the old man part. His biggest fault at this point is he knows as much, if not more than most of the coaches on his staff.
That gets right back to the Xs and Os part, and how Gruden was smart enough to X and O out to Al why things wouldn’t work.
That’s why I can’t get past Cable. He is NOT smart enough to go into a meeting with Al and explain why calling 4 vertical from your own end zone with DHB, Murphy, Watkins, and Miller just isn’t the way to go.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
even though priest called chris johnson
November 14th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
That is what is so disturbing. Al could spend the money on quality HC/GM, sit back and enjoy his team. He would fill the dungeon and the wins could happen. Instead he overpays left and right on unproven players, FA’s and the like, with little or no coaching management. You have to liken to a major corporation with out an CEO. How long can it last?
Would Al feel obligated to give a coach and a GM some slack if he paid a healthy dollar amount for them?
He truly is bizzaro.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Youre wrong priestj about Al Davis. Davis knows football very superficially. It is one of the more exaggerated things out there that Davis is this genius XO guy.
——————————————————-
I think you are the first guy I have ever heard dispute that. Have you heard Belechick, who still call him Mr Davis, talk about Al and his knowledge of the game? Even MeAngelo raved about how they just sat there and talked football. I think every sports writer in the bay area joked about how Al’s interview with Kiffin would be him trying to beat Al in drawing up and diagraming plays. Basically a big ass x and o session.
I think you are wrong about that one GG.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
# 16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
i said real gm
:butwholepreek
is a legend in his 
own mind 
He 
in his 
own delusional mind thinks 
that he 
would be the perfect GM 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:45 pm
People going on about smart Al is…I can PROVE that you all and me are far smarter than Al.
How?
Simple.
Answer this question…
You’re the owner of the Oakland Raiders. What do you do to make your product better?
(your answer I can predict 99%, will be the same thing everyone says, and it WILL confirm that we’re all literally smarter, genuinely smarter, than Al Davis).
November 14th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Cable just needs to do what he thinks is right and stop the hey! Mr davis watch this stuff. He hired you because he believd you have what it takes not so you can act like his 5 year old son. Daddy look what I did!
Coach the damn team to the best of your ability, He will appreciate that. Gruden got what he got because he knew how to sell it and if he couldn’t he got the right help.
Cable coach the way YU believe you need to, to win games not what you think HE wants to see. That will get you fired………….period
November 14th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
(your answer I can predict 99%, will be the same thing everyone says, and it WILL confirm that we’re all literally smarter, genuinely smarter, than Al Davis).
HIRE A REAL GM AND KEEP HIS WHEEL CHAIR PARKED AT THE RETIREMENT HOME
November 14th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
All I know is I’m wearing this to the game tomorrow . . . http://evoltees.com/savethenation.html
November 14th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Island,
You can’t fault an owner for spending $ in the offseason. Think of the alternative.
DHall HAD to be a Kiffin request. Or maybe I should say his staff. With Knapp, Cable, and all the other guys coming over from Atlanta’s staff, it only makes sense. Plus, with Routt as the only other viable corner, it KINDA made sense.
Javon Walker was a flat out mistake, but we did need a veteran WR in the worst way. Can you even remember what our other options were? It just didn’t work out with him.
But again, how can you be mad at an owner who actually spends $ on FAs?
November 14th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
GG, you don’t have the foggiest idea what the helll you’re talking about.
Please don’t try to tell what this man knows. Unless you have been where I have been you don’t know. There are very few coaches that know more football than Mr Davis you can ask any coach that’s ever talked to him. I’ve watched him grill coaches and I’ve watched him coach the Oakland Raiders when he was much younger.
I’ve witnessed it.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
do you think top 10 is too high to draft a rt
November 14th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Davis is not a coach. He was a coach in the 60’s when the game was far far less complex with tactical wrinkles, before the game evolved so much the last 40 years. His daily life is not and has not been about studying every facet of tactical football like coaches do.
And the proof is in the pudding because it’s 2009 and Davis’ coaching methods are still 60’s-centric. He himself has NOT evolved his coaching and tactical understandings. If he did, he would REALIZE that the game has evolved to such a finer art that more complexity is required. And that involves correct scouting.
Eg, Payton’s system is complex and requires a QB with immense brains, leadership, dedication. And requires of WRs good football smarts (cos WR is a difficult position, they’re like a mini-QB). Davis’ system is all about pure physique…faster/stronger/taller. That therefore means a QB with a huge arm is more important TACTICALLY than a smart one. He spends $40m guaranteed on THAT raw physicality and ignores leadership, intangibles, football smarts. And it also means WRs primary tactical importance is SPEED. And he pays millions more on THAT raw physicality.
He is too extreme too. He thinks a 4.40 WR with great football skill is worse than a 4.20 WR project who’ll need years to develop (if he does).
That’s where Davis also errs badly.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
[...] Read more. [...]
November 14th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
GG, you don’t have the foggiest idea what the helll you’re talking about.
This comes from Mr. Ed’s trainer
November 14th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
And it really cracks me up how most in here will insist no coach wants to come here. But you all say that we should take Gruden back. Because you really believe he wants to come back. Now if it is so bad to coach under him why in hell would someone as special (your opinion) as Gruden want to come back here?
=======================================================
We should take Gruden back. I doubt very much he wants to come back, tho I believe he is endeared to Mrs. Davis and Al. And I can only hope Gruden wants to come back because he loves the Raiders and the fans. Hard to imagine Gruden holding a grudge, tho he may I don’t know. He got the last laugh. Now on the other hand, would Al like to see him back? I doubt it. His ego is to big, he’d rather sink the boat than rock it.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Err…..I
mean Mr. Davis 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
You’re the owner of the Oakland Raiders. What do you do to make your product better?
——————————————————
I swear to GOD if I were owner, I would be questioning EVERY move made, lol!
Seriously, my first move would be to bring in a solid GM. I think the guy I really like is Charlie Casserly.
I would instruct Casserly to hire a top notch personell man. Some my laugh, but I agree with 90% of the stuff Mike Mayock says.
I let Casserly bring in the coach he wants.
I mandate that not one skill position player gets cut in year one on offense or defense.
Free reign after year one.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
jhill Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:38 pm
Youre wrong priestj about Al Davis. Davis knows football very superficially. It is one of the more exaggerated things out there that Davis is this genius XO guy.
——————————————————-
I think you are the first guy I have ever heard dispute that. Have you heard Belechick, who still call him Mr Davis, talk about Al and his knowledge of the game? Even MeAngelo raved about how they just sat there and talked football. I think every sports writer in the bay area joked about how Al’s interview with Kiffin would be him trying to beat Al in drawing up and diagraming plays. Basically a big ass x and o session.
I think you are wrong about that one GG.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Sure Belechick is gonna praise Davis. Look at the deals he gets.
November 14th, 2009 at 10:56 pm
16yearsold16yearfan Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
do you think top 10 is too high to draft a rt
—————————————————-
Absolutely!
November 14th, 2009 at 10:57 pm
Come to think about it
butwholepreek 
wasn’t it about 7 to 8 years ago 
that you 
were bragging on the other board how your daughter-in-law 
wrote you the illegal prescription for Viagra 
You 
didn’t share it with Mr. Ed by any chance 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Err….I
mean Mr. Davis 
November 14th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
So GG,
You don’t like Nnamdi, Branch, Howard, Shaugnessy, Bryant, Huff, Gallery, Bush, Fargas, Murphy, DMac, ONeal, SChillens, JLH, or Henderson?
You do realize Al drafted those players. Not too many GMs are 100% in the draft.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Sure Belechick is gonna praise Davis. Look at the deals he gets.
—————————————————
You mean the Doug Gabriel deal?
Or was it the Derrick Burgess deal?
I know you are not talking about Seymour, our BEST defensive lineman, BY FAR!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Your reply to my question JHill about what you would do if you were an owner shows…
JHill is smarter than Al Davis.
And everyone of us here 99% would know this answer to be correct.
Hence 99% of Raiderfans are smarter than Al Davis.
I mean literally too. Not joking.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
OK Jhill,
Bless his heart for the spending, no doubt. But I wish I could piss that kind of money away.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Another great post Jhill #225, that’s the biggest problem, it’s a very unigue situation that most HC’s can’t handle. The ones that can love it. The ones that can’t hate it.
I think Bill walsh explained working for Big Al the best he said, you have to know that what you believe in is solid enough that he will respect it. And then run your program in such a way that it acknowledges his phylosophies but doesn’t cater to them.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Look back on every Raiders successful year…only ever happened when Davis had true XO coaches in place. Davis knows stuff but he is NOT a coach, and definitely not up there with the likes of Gruden/Belichick etc. The only reason Al can get off looking ultra smart is cos he grills pathetic inexperienced coaches like Cable and it makes him pat himself on the back thinking he’s so smart.
Al Davis is NOT Paul Brown and I dont care if we’re all Raider faithful here, the truth is it’s a blasphemy to compare Davis’ XO to Paul Brown. He isnt a slither of the man.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
Moss, high draft pick, tuck rule.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
He also said, before you do something explain it to him and give him solid reason for your decision. In other words get his support before you act.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
16 no it isnt. jhill i agree with almost everything u say but we are at huge odds here. rt is just as important as lt.the ying to the yang. if our rt was as good as mario we would have no worries. also consider that we already have a lt so its not like we would be choosing rt over lt. a probowl rt will eventually cost a lot of money so what diffenrence doest it make? u mean to tell me a dominant rt who makes a huge impact right now isnt worht heybey money?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:09 pm
remember how a bunch of idiots in here hated on shaugnessey cuz of the way he talked in that interview? now these dummies want him to play more. this blog is full of elitists who just want what they want or its no good.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:11 pm
I
just got an email from Mr. Ed…err…I 
mean Mr. Davis 
pleading with me to lay off of butwholepreek 
Mr. Ed…err…I 
mean Mr. Davis 
says that he needs at least one rat to go down with him 
on his 
sinking ship 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
GG,, Mr avis could wipe his ass with Gruden. Truth is you don’t know squat about Mr Davis, that is blatantly obvious.
You are a Al Davis hater basically spouting off about what you don’t know. As I said earlier it’s easy to make wild assumptions that are baseless and have someone bare the burden to rebutt them.
Waste of time.
I watched Bill Walsh coach from Stanford to the 49ers and I saw Mr Davis coach the Oakland Raiders. Both men equally as brilliant. I used to talk to Bill about Mr Davis years ago. Nothing earth shattering jus what he thought about him and I once asked him why he wouldn’t coach for him and he said it wasn’t true. He wanted to coach fro Mr Davis but Al didn’t think he was HC material. Incidently neither did Paul brown.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Heres a good analogy again on why Jhill is smarter than Al Davis.
Al Davis is a cooking enthusiast. He decides to buy a restaurant. Jhill knows that even if he was a cooking enthusiast to the degree Al Davis really is, he would STILL hire actual world-renowned Chefs to run the kitchen. Sure Jhill (davis) could ‘dictate’ this to be a french restuarant not an italian one. But that’s where the buck stops with owner meddling. Jhill would cede appropriate control to the master chef, to run the kitchen, in every facet we can think of how restaurants are run, the requirements.
Jhill is therefore smarter than Davis because HE KNOWS HIS LIMITATIONS and also knows ACCOUNTABILITY and DISCIPLINE are necessary to create a winning/successful restaurant.
But Al Davis is less intelligent (also read “megalomaniac”) because he think he is a master chef, lives in self-denial, tho deep down he KNOWS that any successful year he oversaw, he hired true genuine XO Chefs and they had significant appropriate/adequate control to ensure the kitchen performed to a high standard.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
our offseason needs to be an all physical draft and fa siginings. no speed guys unless they are tough also. i would really like to see more of a power run game than this soft cut stuff. the reason stanford can beat these tough teams like usc and oregon unlike cal is that stanford can play physical. sometimes u need to hit people in the mouth all game long instead of just running away from them. remember that cable!!!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:15 pm
Paul Brown >>>>>>>>>>>>> a horses ass >>>>>>>>>>>>> Al Davis in XO terms and football godlike status.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:16 pm
GG,
I’m not saying that he is one of the all time great old school coaches, lol!
Just the fact that he was any type of coach at all is what I’m saying. If Gruden had to literally draw up an X and O scheme to show Davis something didn’t work, what does that tell you?
His memo to Al Davis was written in Xs and Os, and Davis UNDERSTOOD it and AGREED with GRUDEN.
The point is there is not one other owner in the league who speaks the language of Xs and Os.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
And I detest the Browns and Bengals. I love the Raiders. But objectively, truthfully, Davis is not worthy of being urinated on by Paul Brown in XO terms and what was brought to football.
Davis did a lot of great stuff, no doubt, I do love Davis for all the good stuff he did. He’s a legend. Etc.
But it’s laughable to try to place Davis anywhere above Brown’s shoelaces.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Hate to say this to ya pj, Gruden wiped his ass with Davis.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Jhill, my Brown/Davis posts were not at you, but at Priesttj.
Dont worry, I already know youre smarter than Al Davis because you answered my question and PROVED you’re smarter.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
GG,, Mr avis could wipe his ass with Gruden. Truth is you don’t know squat about Mr Davis, that is blatantly obvious.
I’m
really confused now 
is his 
name Mr. Davis 
Mr. Ed 
or Mr. avis 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
He pimp slapped him into this mess we got now.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
# islandraider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pm
Hate to say this to ya pj, Gruden wiped his ass with Davis.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
Agreed, no owner deciphers X’s & O’s like Davis, but…a philosophy is what drives X’s & O’s and Davis’ philosophy is dated!!! In an age of spread offenses and wildcats, Davis fails to understand the direction the league is taking!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
GG, what system does Sean Peyton run?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
armond Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
16 no it isnt. jhill i agree with almost everything u say but we are at huge odds here.
—————————————————
I wouldn’t say huge, lol! Remember, I was willing to take Mack at 7 this year, so I totally understand where you are coming from.
I guess I should have said that in the upcoming draft, I think an impact player at the LB position or DT if we cut Kelly is more pressing.
My mock goes something like this:
1st rd – LB/DT
2nd rd – CB
3rd rd – RT
3rd rd – LB/DT
4th rd – RG
5th rd – LB
5th rd – CB
6th rd – Oline
7th rd – Dline
November 14th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
butwholepreek
regardless of what you 
call him 
you 
had better give the old coot 
a call and get tickets for 16 
or all that will be left will be seats in the nose bleed section 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Gg, describe Sean Peyton’s system, let’s see if you really know football?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Don’t get me wrong here. At one time Al was very unique unto himself and the game. He has done some great things, and never compromised his social beliefs. But it is truly sad to see him take a once great organiztion and pummel it into the ground. He calls the shots. Period. I just wish he could go out gracefully, not at the expense of what it is now.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
This is not a pissing contest Priesttj, Im not here to impress you with my football acumen. Tho that’s why youre here. To brow-beat everyone and rip on them as a way to pat yourself on the back. You sound a lot like Al Davis.
I guess you would be the 1% who PROVED they werent smarter than Al Davis? Ie, you would as a cooking enthusiast not hire master chefs and let them run the kitchen, instead you as an enthusiast would throttle the life out of a football organization — financially, fanbase wise (notice the blackouts?), and all the PR/management embarrassments over the years like the recent Gannon thing etc.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
The Raiders need to address the Tackle position in the first round, you build a franchise from the O-line out!
The right gaurd in the 4-5 rounds. The Raiders D is suspect, but they are good enough to keep a team in the game, but lack of production on offense is what causes blowouts, loss of motivation!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Great discussion folks!
Way past my bedtime.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:28 pm
# priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Gg, describe Sean Peyton’s system, let’s see if you really know football?
Can Mr. ed….err….I
mean Mr. avis 
describe Peyton’s system 
How well 
did Mr. avis 
prepare for it last year 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Cuz, are you retarded spread offense and wildcat? lol
That stuff is as old as I am. the wildcat is the old 60 year old wingT. The spread is just 4 wides in a shotgun. The ld Dallas Cowboy’s used to run that with Roger Staubach.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
This is not a pissing contest Priesttj, Im not here to impress you with my football acumen. Tho that’s why youre here. To brow-beat everyone and rip on them as a way to pat yourself on the back. You sound a lot like Al Davis.
It’s called cross breeding
November 14th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
One last post, lol …
CuzImaRaider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
The Raiders need to address the Tackle position in the first round, you build a franchise from the O-line out!
The right gaurd in the 4-5 rounds. The Raiders D is suspect, but they are good enough to keep a team in the game, but lack of production on offense is what causes blowouts, loss of motivation!
—————————————————
Kirk Morrison HAS to be replaced. Same with the oft injured Ricky Brown and just flat our awful John Alston.
Warren is about done, and should clearly be a backup. About ready to pull the plug on the TK experiment.
Stan Routt is our nickle corner, and John Holland is behind him.
LB, DT, and Nickle corner HAVE to be addressed.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Davis
November 14th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:29 pm
Cuz, are you retarded spread offense and wildcat? lol
That stuff is as old as I am.
No one is that old
How long have you 
been taking Viagra butwholepreek “?”
November 14th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
The spread offense is just the run & shoot from Mouse Davis 40 years ago. You guy’s are crazy that’s going backward not forward.
Shall we bring back the wishbone and say that’s passed him by as well? What a crock!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
After Allen, Davis deals Gruden
The Marcus Allen affair has continued to be cited as the turning point at which the Raiders ceased to be a contender in the 1990s. After 1994 the Raiders returned to Oakland and failed to post a winning record until 2000. The Denver Broncos meanwhile reestablished themselves as the AFC West’s premier franchise, winning Super Bowls in 1997 and 1998 under John Elway and coach Mike Shanahan, the head coach of the LA Raiders in the 1988-89 season.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
GG, no you’re running your big mouth about what he he knows and doesn’t know so let’s see what YOU know?
Don’t get shy now. What system does Sean Peyton run?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
Sean Payton’s system is all about packages and creating mismatches that way. Heavy on complexity of versatility so that nothing is predictable to decipher. It’s a vertical passing offense (but dont confuse that with Air Coryell). Payton’s system (like any good modern offense) employs many schematics and tactical wrinkles from all kinds of philosophies. That’s what evolving as a coach is all about. Davis hasnt ever evolved as a “coach”. Every offense in the NFL pretty much is a hybrid of many different strategies. YAC-WCO, vertical passing, spread, run’n'gun, etc etc. Elements are always there and evolving as the modern game itself evolves due to 32 teams constantly evolving their offenses every year. A team cannot be too predictable or too simple.
The Saints are not Air Coryell either because they are not a power-running team either. They utilize a lot of WCO principles in their rushing and short passing elements. Eg, due to factoring in R.Bush’s particular skills into the playbook. A lot of wrinkles there all based on “scat back”.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
“Shall we bring back the wishbone and say that’s passed him by as well? ”
Let’s !
November 14th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Damn priest your 60? That’s retarded!!
But i hear you, and agree but they are reinvented & they type of players that run these systems today are hecka better, faster and smarter, Ronnie Brown and Tricky Ricky never existed in the wingT 60 years ago, these reinvented offenses, with the right players plugged in are dangerous, thats the philosophy that drives sean paytons system and the dolphins succesful wildcat, Al has no philosophy worth putting into X’s and O’s or an identity of what works, thats why players don’t succeedm they’re not drafted for a system, but an aged idea.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
GG, no you’re running your big mouth about what he he knows and doesn’t know so let’s see what YOU know?
Better than running your mouth about who you
blo 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
You can get LB DT and nickel scorners in FA
November 14th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
“A lot of wrinkles there all based on “scat back”.
Speaking of wrinkles
butwholepreek 
sure seems to have “wrinkled feathers” tonight 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Gentlemen, its been a riot.
Good luck in the toilet bowl game tomorrow.
May the best turd, I mean team win.
Have a good game Cable.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
priest it is funny to hear people make the spread out to be more than it is. run n shoot man thats goin back to the early 90’s. the lions falcons oilers use to run that all the time. jhill if u still here i see what u mean. yes morrison brown and kelly gotta go big time. i would want to move big sey inside and make a move for aaron kampman to go outside. hell id draft carlos dunlap at de and move sey inside to replace kelly. i like spikes alot but mcclain is good too. the kid i really is suh from nebraska. he is everything we wish kelly was.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
CuzImaRaider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Damn priest your 60?
No, he’s
not 60. That’s how long he has been taking Viagra 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Just as I thought you’d dance around the truth the same way you have everything else.
It’s the same damn system Mr davis ran with Clem Daniels in the late 60’s early 70’s the same damn system. The verticl passing game with motions and multiple sets. The same old soup warmed over.
Anybody can take a system add a few wrinkles and call it new. But the backbone of that offense is Mr Davis’s veticle offense plain and simple. It uses the TE’s a nd Rb’s as recievers and that is why he wanted Sean Peyton here to run his old offense. But Sean got intimidated and ran…………….period
November 14th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
suhs a good pick, hughes from TCU or Selvie are better picks outside
November 14th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
islandraider Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Gentlemen, its been a riot.
Good luck in the toilet bowl game tomorrow.
Wow! I didn’t realize how bad it is
butwholepreek 
can’t even get tickets for 16 for the toilet bowl 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Sean Payton also new he’d get a QB(real one) in NO, JRuss can’t run that offense.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
well said Trolls 35 Raiders 0
im not here to be in a pissing contest. we should all appreciate we have as much football acumen as each other, enough to engage in a discussion/debate about the realities of why the Raiders are going wrong.
The bottom line is….Davis needs to cede a lot of control in the football/scouting departments to a reputable GM and thus attract a genuine reputable XO HC, and from that simple step, creating accountability and discipline and evolution in offensive/defensive schematics, will come Raider success again.
That’s a given. The proof is in the pudding post-Gruden when Al’s dictated so much control over every department that he has singlehandedly dictated the WORST period in NFL history! Let alone Raider history.
Davis is out of his depth and must wake up and eat humble pie or else things are gonna get worse for the franchise itself. And dont think LA will want the Raiders and Davis’ tyrnanny there either. They will want an actually professional well-run organization to come there if they’re to herald a new era of having an NFL team in LA.
Davis pisses on the NorCal so much so badly over the years. Dont be surprised if he uses all this blackout and lack of funds in the City of Oakland for a new stadium to try to worm his way out of NorCal like a rat.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
Lets hope the Raiders find some victory against the chiefs, enjoy(some part)of the game NATION!
November 14th, 2009 at 11:45 pm
priesttj Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:41 pm
Just as I thought you’d dance around the truth the same way you have everything else.
The same way you
are dancing around the issue of getting tickets for tomorrows game for 16 
“Anybody can take a system add a few wrinkles and call it new.”
You
mean take some feathers and add a few wrinkles to it 
don’t you :mrgeen:
November 14th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
I
hope that 16 
doesn’t live in the blackout area 
November 14th, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Priesttj…
It’s not and never has been “MR DAVIS’ system”. Davis didnt invent anything. Don Coryell and Sid Gillman did. Davis just learned under Don in the 60s, then he stopped being a coach. Also, many HCs come from the Coryell system, many OCs. They have continued to evolve their playbooks as more and more things get evolved in the NFL. Davis is NOT a coach. And he did NOT invent any system.
Secondly, payton’s system is NOT a vertical passing offense. You pigeon hole it as tho it’s just this one element. It is not. It is a hybrid of many systems and elements. You totally neglect the amount of WCO-YAC principles there are in Payton’s system for instance.
November 14th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
GG..
What is exactly is “WCO-YAC (Yard after catch?)” and how are you referencing it?
November 14th, 2009 at 11:58 pm
russell would run paytons system better than this west coast crap. what makes people think he cant run a system like that. alot of people never paid attention to him in college. phil simms said he was surprised to see how complicated lsu system was when we drafted jr. jr ran a spread run n shoot whatever u wanna call it offense in college.les miles even talked about how he made alot of line adjustments and so on.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:00 am
WCO-YAC. What, do i have to now explain everything like as if you guys dont know what im talking about. Why cant discussion be had here without trying to “see” if someone knows what they mean or not when they mention something.
Anyway, just watch the Saints, you’ll see many times the TE, the FB, HB, and two WRs are all on crossing routes, out in the flats, some deep, that’s all WCO firstly. YAC is about short precise routes tailored for the receiver to then make abundance of yards after the catch. How you design a play, where you send routes in how you create YAC opportunities.
This also is key in R.Bush’s presence in the offense. How he is schemed. The Saints are not reliant or predictable that they are “a vertical passing offense”. They have many strings to their bows, many different intended receivers, many different packages, multiple hot-reads and reads-1 reads-2 wrinkled into many plays. They sometimes send two deep and max protect a la Air Coryell. They often spread the field WCO-wise in short YAC design with FB-TE-HB all on routes. They run elements of run’n'gun elements too. With the two RB system on many downs (Bush and Thomas in the backfield).
November 15th, 2009 at 12:00 am
Cuz, take a breath and buy a clue. Better yet take the rest of the day off. Half the freakin NFL is running Mr Davis’s system.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:08 am
That’s the whole point about Payton’s system, because it is “his” system. So many elements hybrid in and multiple-packages, in ORDER to be unpredictable and hard to decipher.
Traditional Air Coryell of the 60’s is more straight up and down power running, deep passing, play-action. There is zero WCO or two-back elements in it. WCO wasnt even around when Don created it. Or Gillman invented it. And the whole “scat back” thing wasnt even invented till 20 years later.
Dont mistake something either. I am constantly defending Al to non-raider fans about the Air Coryell. Many people dont realize that vertical passing etc hasnt dated. Nothing dates. Everything is always there in the NFL, always elements in every team. The problem is just that Davis needs to hire true XO HC/GM so that a more complex modern system can be installed here which would garner more offensive production and success in the modern NFL. Teams cant ever be too predictable or entirely one system. Very few WCO coaches today are a genuine Walsh WCO. They ALL have many new wrinkles and hybrid with other systems in there. The whole evolution thing.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:08 am
eternal Lol at you priesttj with your “mr davis’ system”.
haha
November 15th, 2009 at 12:08 am
Let me tell you someything little ignorant kid GG, any system that employs the TE and Rb’s as receivers was born out of the same system Al Davis has been runing for 40 years in the Old AFL.
You can dress it up as the WCO or verticle offense all you want it is the same system Mr davis devised t beat the LA Chargers with Sid Gilman as HC. When he had Clem Daniels go deep down the middle of the field and they didn’t know how to defend it.
The same system that Bill Walsh used to get the TE out into the pattern to take advantage of LB’s or safties. It’s the same principles.
Dress it up turn it around and and look at it through whatever glasses you want it’s the same thing.
All Walsh did is design horizontal patterns to take advantage of the underneath stuff. But it is the same system………….period
November 15th, 2009 at 12:14 am
You talking about Don Coryell is funny because he came from that same system under Mr Davis and Sid Gilman.
Little ironic isn’t it, how all of these men that run these hybrid system came form under these same two men. Sid Gilman and Al Davis gave birth to everything they are doing right now.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:15 am
Do you not know who Don Coryell and Sid Gillman are?
haha you dont even know, clearly, when you say “Davis’ system”.
It’s funny that you re-invent or make-up history like that.
The cool thing about all this is that it affords us a peephole into how Al Davis actually thinks….”i invented football, the NFL, vertical passing, XO” and no wonder the Raiders product is where it is the last twenty years but especially last 8, due to that kind of megalomania.
You’re only validating more and more why Davis needs to step away from football, priesttj, when you parrot how HE thinks and what HE believes/says.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:18 am
TEs running routes is not the point.
WCO is about spreading the offense horizontally USING TEs, HBs, FBs all on routes at the same time.
A TE actually running a route was started many decades before WCO was even invented.
Dont misread what I write cos you only show you enjoy listening to yourself speak.
WCO is a specific WAY to utilize routes etc. Payton’s system has many hybrid elements. That you fail to understand.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:25 am
Sid Gillman is the FATHER of modern passing football. Everything stems from him.
Don Coryell learned his system, adding his own wrinkles. Davis learned Don’s system. But ceased being a literal Coach in the 60’s. That’s significant because coaching, actually coaching year in year out for decades entails studious factory-floor involvement in coaching and learning, evolving and fine-tuning alongside the synergy of evolution going on among 32 NFL teams every year evolving.
Meanwhile, MANY other current and former HCs/OCs ALSO learned Don Coryell’s system (and not from Davis either). And they all also went on in their NFL careers further developing and refining and adding wrinkles to them.
Just like all the assistant coaches did under Walsh with the initial WCO. Every WCO coach today from the Bill Walsh tree has evolved and branched off and hybrid and refined and added on.
Davis IS NOT as important a figure in the XO world as you think/believe. Paul Brown, Gillman, Walsh, Don Coryell, etc are. Davis is the most learned Owner in the NFL, yes. But he is not an important figure in the history of football in XO terms and coaching and legacies.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:29 am
Listen Boy, I was watching Sid gilman before you were born. I watched Lance Alworth play with John Hadl at QB. I saw Don Coryell coach at St Louis Cardinals with Jim Hart at QB and Mel Gray and Terry Metcalf.
What do mean I don’t know them. I remember when the Raiders brought George Blanda from Houston Oilers.
I don’t know Don Coryell and Sid Gilman, how ignorant are you.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:33 am
Mr Davis is more than anthing you say because obviously you weren’t around then. Mr Davis brought Bill Walsh to the LA Chargers when he was the DC with the Chargers years later he beat Sid Gilman’s Chargers to win the West division to go to the SB against the Green Bay Packers.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:34 am
Boy? haha. Wake up you senile megalomaniac fool.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:37 am
Yeah Boy, I don’t have to read from a book or wikipedia I saw it live son.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:40 am
Normally i dont disrepect elderly people. I have a lot of respect and admiration for them. But you deserve to cop a little lip back because you shoot your mouth off disparaging everyone here, sitting back in your megalomaniac throne of self-denial and exagerrated self-importance, disrespecting everyone.
Normally I wouldnt. And i dont want to go down that road anyway. Re: Davis, i dont put down his true legacy at all, he is what he is, and has done what he has done, and many including I appreciate all the good hes done. But im truthful and objective, you inflating Davis legacy and re-inventing history exaggerating Davis’ influence in XO terms is worth criticism.
Anyway, you wanted to push me like i dont know football. I proved you wrong on that, AND i proved you wrong about Payton’s system. You mistakenly thought it was “just” vertical passing and that it was somehow “Davis’ system”. Wrong wrong. It’s a hybrid of many systems and Davis never invented anything. Gillman/Coryell did, Davis is less knowledgable about Air Coryell than someone like Al Saunders for instance, or Mike Martz. They ARE literal life-long coaches who’ve worked for decades on the factory-floor of coaching in the NFL and evolving and learning more.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:47 am
I desparage idiots like you who know nothing and read up on a few things and think that’s all there is but I’ve been in the lockeroom with Bill Walsh and Al Davis. I stood on the sideline with Bobby Beathard an d some of the greatest caches and scouts and GM’s in the business. To have a halfcocked punk like you try to tell me about what Mr davis isn’t or doesn’t know.
Shut the hell up sucka and ask questions if you want to know. I’m the instructor, you just take notes got it?
November 15th, 2009 at 12:53 am
Davis has a good grounding in coaching. In business, football, in scouting, etc. He knows a lot. As an owner he is unlike any currently. But he isnt Paul Brown either.
But like Paul Brown himself, who grew senile and megalomaniac and stuck in his ways, the Bengals eventually decayed under him. It’s just nature. As you grow older you exaggerate your self-importance and become more stubborn and control-freak.
The dictatorship that Davis currently has built for himself, this Nazi-like Bunker of yes-men, shills, and puppet inferior cheap coaches, no accountability at the GM, lack of discipline etc. This is all confirmation of the onfield (and off-field) product that exists.
It’s childishness on Davis’ part to hold the franchise/team to a gunpoint of mediocrity and embarrassment JUST so Davis can get any credit for success or to not look wrong to others. Always a chip on his shoulder, self-inferiority/superiority complex…”whaaa whaaa im a genius i need to show everyone im the smartest best thing since sliced bread, i invented football, XO’s, I did everything, people should worship me whaaa whaaa”.
How STUPID of Davis as GM to hire puppet coaches, saddle them little control and players they didnt want drafted, then fire them (hold coaches accountable) when they cant polish his turd? Especially when those coaches are sitting ducks, players on scholarships able to ignore coaches and not be disciplined, to not have any motivation to earn their roster spots.
Put it this way…if Davis as an owner-only hired a GM, and the GM erred as badly as Davis did for even just a couple seasons, do you think Davis would’ve fired the GM or not? Do you think he would hold that GM accountable for everything which falls under his control? Of coure he would. Yet, this is where Davis’ structure fosters failure and mediocrity. Because the GM is NOT accountable currently.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:54 am
Any system can be called a hybrid pof many systems you idiot. Once they started throwing the football anything that involved passes could be called a hybrid.
That’s what peple do when they don’t know. Untill Mr Davis sent Clem Daniels down the middle of the field it had not been done before………period
he did it because the Chargers were so talented defensively and he had to find a way to gain an advantage so he used Clem and it worked and they went to their 1st SB. Clem daniels got hurt befre bthat game against the Packers or they would’ve beat the Packers for a historic victory. Next year the Jets won it over the Colts using some of those same principles. Especially Hank Stram and the KC Chiefs used Wendell Hayes the same way with the first USC HB heisman winner to beat the Vikings.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:57 am
You havent disparaged anyone really in this topic today. You DO sit back and rip off insults etc. But you havent proven a point at all tonight. You’ve been schooled by many tonight.
Lol at your “im the instructor, you take notes” haha. You know, you saying idiotic things like that doesnt make it true—–ONLY IN YOUR BRAIN.
No one can make another’s brain realize the truth or look into a mirror. But the megalomania in your brain only exists in your brain. No one else actually grants you the self-importance you give yourself.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it. You will wander off tonight and go to bed and in the end you’re trapped in your own brain. That’s your punishment!
November 15th, 2009 at 1:01 am
Yeah yeah yeah, Paul Brown was the first to use the forward pass as a major weapon. But Sid Gilman and Al Davis made it an artform. Bill Walsh just expanded on it. Don Coryell simply used it with great talent he was not the innovator. But the way he used Terry Metcalf was genius because of Metcalf’s talent. By then every body in the Old AFL was doing it.
Mr davis isn’t recognised by many for what he devised but the truth is when he used Clem it revolutionized offensive football further.Also his ability to employ the bump and run on defense was revolutionary as well. No one was doing that except the Raiders. He started it with Fred Williamson.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:03 am
You wouldn’t know if I did your head is so far up your ass. You think you know but you don’t. You’ve never seen these people play you’ve only read about it.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:06 am
Any system can be called a hybrid. But the important relevant point you fail to grasp is that it’s not and never has been “Davis’ system”. There is no such thing. It’s called Air Coryell not Air Davis. Gillman is deservedly recognized as the father of modern passing football. Not Davis. Bill Walsh invented WCO. Davis didnt.
Strictly speaking, Payton’s system, is also incorrect. But we’re only using that term to describe Payton’s schematics and evolved complex adequately modern playbook and offensive principles. Not like he INVENTED them, but as an architect of them utilized in the Saints.
But the way you’re using “Davis’ system” is absurd, trying to paint Davis as a creator and inventor of XO football.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:13 am
You are very naive son. Air Coryell came much later. 20 years later in fact Air Coryell was in the early 80’s Tom Flores was coaching the Raiders by then.
Air Coryell??! Bill walsh had come on the sceen by then. You’re an ignorant wretch aren’t you? Stop with the wikipedia crap. And talk what you know. That is chronlogically out of order.
Now you’re boring me with your stupidity.
Gotta find something else I had enough fun tonite.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:16 am
Going with that ‘logic’ of “I saw people play so i know more than you” is stupidity.
That’s like saying it’s impossible for guys like Belichick, Holgren, Gruden, etc to know anything about football or be PROFESSORS of XOs because they were born when they were born.
That’s like saying any scientist today is an idiot because they werent there when Galileo discovered the Earth revolves around the Sun.
It does NOT matter. People can learn and become far more knowledgable than others born prior to them.
Perfect example? Belichick knows far more about XOs than Al Davis does.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:19 am
Go take your milk and cookies and have a nice old sleep and dream. Brace yourself for the Chiefs-Raiders. You’ll need to build up your energy to tackle the posters in this blog tomorrow.
November 15th, 2009 at 1:28 am
BHP
If Al Davis knows so much about winning in the Modern NFL, why isn’t he doing it?
November 15th, 2009 at 1:40 am
Dirt nap for Al!
November 15th, 2009 at 2:09 am
lol indeed.
but his conscience wont rest easy because he knows he’s wrong.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:02 am
Props to
GG
Jhill
Priest
Islandraider
16year
Downthebay
Random
Armond
cuz
and anyone I may have missed
Best blog thread in awhile
They use to be like that all the time but you had to sift through a couple hundred trolls spewing hate.
November 15th, 2009 at 4:05 am
Raiders 41 Squaws 13
Breakout game!!
November 15th, 2009 at 6:16 am
Good Morning Nation!!!
I hope the team used their time off wisely
November 15th, 2009 at 7:01 am
People really brought their A game last night I see.
I wish, though, with all those that say we need to draft a bunch of O-lineman and the good teams build the team from the inside out, would look at the drafts for the last ten years for the Saints, Pats, Colts, Vikings and Steelers.
They all spend first-round pick after first-round pick on WR’s, RB’s and LB’s, and rarely ever a lineman in rounds 1. Whenever those teams finished in the top 10 in the draft, they mostly select-skill position players (the Vikes did take McKinnie in round 1).
Good drafts have good, star-quality skill players at the top (not DHB and D-Mac’s) and solid lineman in rounds 2-4.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:04 am
Jamarcus has played 3 games against the Chiefs and hasn’t been very good in any of them, and downright awful in 2 of them.
Time to break that trend!!!!
Raiders 17 Chiefs 6
November 15th, 2009 at 7:13 am
# GG Says:
November 14th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
stats are cool too…
http://media.nola.com/saints_impact/images/Saints-TDs-graphic.jpg
——————————
OMG!!! The Saints DEFENSE has scored more touchdowns than our offense!!!!!!!!!
November 15th, 2009 at 7:15 am
rusell could run paytons system if he was coached correctly to run it. his off coordinator in college said ”hes the best qb I’ve ever seen with respect to recognizing coverages” people are quick to bag on the guys intelligence but dismiss the fact that he scored 24 on the wonderlic test. have u ever heard him talk football? he knows his stuff. hackett deserves a lot of blame for his regression because he is not coaching him up. how many times have u seen them looking at overhead photos on the bench? I can count one, during preseason. this guy is smarter than most give him credit for. he has to be COACHED just like any other qb. if the coach questions his work ethic, call him @ 530 & get him up! DeFillipo used to call him and discuss football with him on the phone during the offseason…just out of the blue. Knapp even put in more time that hackett and it showed at the end of the season. the guy makes a statement that this is a must win, shows some leadership & the first comment on the thread says ‘’screw him, he’s not a leader, its just empty talk” what do you guys want from him? as I said before, its a catch 22 for him. I’m behind him for the simple fact that I KNOW that its not all him that’s causing the problem. he’s an easy target for folks that don’t know the inner workings. he even said that he believes hackett doesn’t ”like me at all”. if I believed it was all him, my opinion may be different but b/c I know sm other things, and I see the media bias wanting this guy to fail…it goes against everything in me not to pull for him.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:25 am
So its the coaches fault that russell is heavy and slow , and the coach should call him, how many times do you think Mcnabb,Brady,Manning have ever been called by the coach, to quote Dick Vermel talking about LJ “It’s time to take the diaper off and be a man” this is the NFL not college. GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
November 15th, 2009 at 7:31 am
It’s a mixture of faults. I think that Russell doesn’t put in the work he needs to. He did come in overweight in the off season. He did need to get fined for it. He did look horrible in ALL blogs I read in the mini-camps and training camps. And I remember Jerry saying over and over “He looks horrible….but I wouldn’t start worrying yet…it’s still early on and he’s just shaking the rust off”.
I have seen open receivers horribly missed by Russell. Simple swing passess missed.
I do believe that the receivers are also at fault with drops which can’t exactly instill confidence in them.
But, he looks fairly accurate over the middle. Mildly accurate on swing passes. Horribly inaccurate on any throws to teh sideline. For whatever reason that is he’s completing 25% when throwing out.
I would have benched him only if for the reason to give him time to think and see if others could do better in the same situation.
If he comes out and does a descent game this week keep him in. If it really stinks the house, nothing to loose by throwing Gradowski in to see if the receivers suddenly can catch (like Murphy having 5 grabs by Gradowski in 2 quarters and 12 others in the other 30 quarters from Russell). I would at least look.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:39 am
morning all.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Jameatball is the best i’ve heard so far….hands down.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:45 am
I always try to look at it from the other teams p.o.v.
How do we beat the Raiders ? Pressure on Russell from the start.Make him make mistakes.Get him out of whatever little comfort zone he has.Keep at him until he cracks and the crowd gets on his back.Then dominate the clock and see out the game.
That would be my basic plan.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:47 am
JaMarcus…..”we can be more deadly”
I know he’s killing me.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:48 am
If KC pressures JaMarcus we will lose today, that’s for sure
November 15th, 2009 at 7:53 am
Hey,El Tato…..
How ya doing my friend ?
November 15th, 2009 at 7:54 am
That what I Would do.Pressure from the first snap.
November 15th, 2009 at 7:56 am
I m fine man, waiting for today game. We need to win this one
November 15th, 2009 at 7:57 am
The Raider situation despite what the media says is not complicated.
1. Cable and his staff are staying through next year.
Period. Any pinhead who thinks coaching is a problem on this team given the coaching changes of the past and the continued losing does not know football.Poor execution is the PRIMARY problem on this team.
2. Our lineplay is substandard and will be addressed this April.
The most important unit on a team is the Oline (See; Upshaw,Shell,Otto,Marvin,Lawrence etc.)
The Raiders have used high picks many times on lineman in their history. Warren,Green and Carlisle are NOT NFL QUALITY starters.
3. 2003-2006 were wasted years driven largley by a front office incompetant named Lombardi that Mr Davis trusted. Since his departure our drafts have been good. (I wished we had focused more on the Oline in the last two drafts).
Shell had to blow the whistle on Lombardi and for that he needed to go because it made Mr Davis look bad.
Those years set us way back but we can not do anything about it now.
4. No elite skill player out of college will EVER overcome a weak Oline or Dline in the NFL. None. Never.
(See C Johnson-Detroit).
We can not properly evaluate DB’s or QB’s until the line issues get resolved. Yes that includes JR.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:00 am
[...] OT – It’s a must, all right – Jerry McDonald [...]
November 15th, 2009 at 8:05 am
Good to hear.
We need to win this one.Can’t see them getting much from the 3 games after today.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:06 am
Thank you.
# mike jones Says:
November 15th, 2009 at 7:42 am
Jameatball is the best i’ve heard so far….hands down.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:08 am
I think we drafted pretty good this past Drafts in the late rounds, say Schilens (7), Richardson (5), Scott (6), Tvon (4), Bush (4), Henderson (3), Murphy (4), Shaughnessy (3), Morrison (3), Howard (2), Zach Miller (2)and Undrafted players: Kelly, Bryant, Ricky Brown, Eugene,…
but until we get star players in the first round we will still be a bad team
Since 2000 the only first round STAR is Asomugha and he lasted 4 years to contribute. Gallery is a very good guard, but we drafted him 2nd overall to starT at LT not guard
Huff, Fabe Washington, Heyward-Bey, JaMarcus, Gibson Napoleon Harris, Buchanon and McFadden have been a disapointment so far
November 15th, 2009 at 8:08 am
Wow this clown makes priest look like an intelligent human being.
DownTheBayMOG Says:
November 15th, 2009 at 7:15 am
rusell could run paytons system if he was coached correctly to run it
November 15th, 2009 at 8:10 am
It seem we never find a STAR with our first rounder, why we can’t get a Chris Johnson, Patrick Willis, Ryan Clady,… type of players with our first pick?
Something is wrong
November 15th, 2009 at 8:12 am
Charlie Says:
November 15th, 2009 at 7:57 am
3. 2003-2006 were wasted years driven largley by a front office incompetant named Lombardi that Mr Davis trusted. Since his departure our drafts have been good.
———————————-
You mean 2007, 2008 and 2009 drafts were good?
Look for yourself!
In 2009 maybe Louis Murphy is playing up to his draft status (4th round). Matt Shaughnessy had 1 good game and looks bright. Others over-rated or already off the team.
2009
Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Maryland
Michael Mitchell DB Ohio
Matt Shaughnessy DE Wisconsin
Louis Murphy WR Florida
Slade Norris LB Oregon State
Stryker Sulak DE Missouri
Brandon Myers TE Iowa
2nd Round Tyvon Bracch – GREAT pick up. Maybe Chaz turns out to be great. Played above his status last year with 18 catches. Otherwise, not much in these picks.
2008
Darren McFadden RB Arkansas
Tyvon Branch DB Connecticut
Arman Shields WR Richmond
Trevor Scott DE Buffalo
Chaz Schilens WR San Diego State
2007. Zach Miller GREAT choice 2nd round. Mario Henderson looks like a steal in the 3rd round. Bush has played a good game or two. Otherwise? Mostly not on the team or nothing special.
2007
JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State
Zach Miller TE Arizona State
Quentin Moses DE Georgia
Mario Henderson T Florida State
Johnnie Lee Higgins WR Texas-El Paso
Michael Bush RB Louisville
John Bowie DB Cincinnati
Jay Richardson DE Ohio State
Eric Frampton DB Washington State
Oren O’Neal RB Arkansas State
Johnathan Holland WR Louisiana Tech
November 15th, 2009 at 8:17 am
El Tato – it’s true. Our earlier rounds do SUCK and we somehow find more talent in the later rounds.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:20 am
for everybody who said we could get a players in fa
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81423860&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
November 15th, 2009 at 8:21 am
The draft we took Gallery and Grove was the only time we’ve tried to address our weakest positions.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:22 am
Good morning Nation. Today will be a good day. Here it is to the beginning of a 8 game winning streak! Cheers!
November 15th, 2009 at 8:27 am
‘ how many times do you think Mcnabb,Brady,Manning have ever been called by the coach’
well let’s see, mcnabb & manning have been in the EXACT same system for 10 years so I’d say they talk a great deal with their coaches…they all have relationships w/ their coaches
brady sat the bench for three or four seasons with zero expectations but he LEARNED IN THE SAME SYSTEM for his whole career. there is no comparison for a guy having 4 playcallers in three years to a guy that was groomed in the same system for multiple years- they still run the same system in indy, philly and ne. to your point, check the early years for mcnabb and for manning. not pretty at all- but they were allowed to grow & learn and get better. your darn right I blame the qb coach. you don’t coach everyone the same way, that’s common sense so if it take extra prodding then so be it. that’s what coaches do, find ways to get guys ready to play & every guyrequires a different technique. that’s common sense but there is a lack of that on this blog.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:34 am
It’s not the positions we are drafting in the first round that is the problem, it is who we are selecting.
Compare us to the Steelers, and none of us would be upset with Ben, Mendenhall, Heath Miller and Santonio Holmes as our first-round picks the last few years.
Or how about Percy Harvin and Adrian Peterson?
November 15th, 2009 at 8:35 am
if russell ended the season with a fluorish, how do you explain the dropoff? do you honestly believe that this guy has so little pride that he just quit trying to get better? HE HAD A 90 QB RATING AT THE END OF THE YEAR! that is a supreme insult to think he just quit trying to improve. enter paul hackett with an agenda from day 1 and watch the qb position go down in flames. what other logical explanation is there? oh right, russell doesn t care because he came to camp at 270 instead of 265…hes lazy and he doesn’t care about his career. he doesn’t have any pride. yep, that’s what happened…gimme a break.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:35 am
I don’t think it’s just coaching.
If Russell’s not going to put in the hard work,then talent will only take you so far.
On the flip side.If I’d just taken a QB with the first pick of the draft,I’d make sure I got the best QB coach available to work with him.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:41 am
Vegas….
When you’ve got the worst (?) run D in the nfl,why are you taking a WR instead of a DT.Or again last year….a RB intead of a DT.
a case of getting what you want instead of what you need.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:42 am
Been a fan of this team since my first game in 1969!!!
I tailgate every home games Gate C!!
But this is the biggest pile of S*it Ive ever seen!!!
JaFatass is a complete ignorant piece of s*it!!!!!
He’s a dummy from the word go!! No skills no leadership absolutely NOTHING!!!!!!!!
I won’t be going to the game today or the rest of the year. If Davis and his bunch of ass kissing lackeys think there going to get my coin by serving me and mine S*it sandwich and call in steak?? He can go F*ck himself until the mummified old bas*ard drops over dead!!!!
I’m way beyond pissed!! I’m disgusted! This is not The Oakland Raiders!!!
November 15th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Maverick
The last three drafts have been good.
Far better than 2003-2006.
The problem has been a lack of focus on the Oline after getting JR. You can not even begin to evaluate skill guys with our Oline. It is our single weakest link after we got Seymour.(Warren must get replaced next year as well. He disappears against GOOD Olines and is a joke at $5mil a year)
The primary point about my post is that EVERY NFL game is won/lost in the trenches.
EVERY SINGLE ONE.
The hallmark of every great Raider team has been a powerful Oline.
Until we get that we will be a losing franchise. IT IS THAT SIMPLE.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:51 am
Neilb,
Desmond Bryant has been one of the best and most productive rookie DT’s in the league, and Matt Shannessey has a chance to build as well. Plus we added Seymour and Ellis in the offseason!!!
We need LB’s and should have taken Cushing maybe, especially since he was a combine warrior and right up Al’s alley. He is going to end up the year with 3 times as many tackles as everybodies favorite Rey Maulauga.
Seriously, nobody would care if we drafted a WR this year if his name was Percy Harvin and we would be a lot better of a football team.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Charlie,
Did the Cardinals “trench” their way to the Super Bowl last year, LOL.
Their starting LT in the Super Bowl had 3 holding penalties, a false start and was a sieve all game, yet they almost won because of Fitz and Warner.
The Steelers superbowl winning drive started with a nice play getting called back for holding. First and 20, throw a 5 yard pass to Holmes, who breaks tackles and gets a first.
Play-makers win championships, don’t ever get that twisted.
November 15th, 2009 at 8:56 am
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&page=hotread6/JaMarcusRussell
November 15th, 2009 at 8:58 am
Now D-line, that is a whole different ballgame. A dominant D-line can shut down an entire offense.
I have seen it many times this year, where the O-line did a great job blocking, only Jamarcus one-hopped his WR or threw into double-coverage. Darren getting great blocking as nobody touches him until he is 5-6 yards down the field, but than fumbles on first contact.
Do we need to improve our O-line, absolutely. Is our O-line worse than our WR’s, RB’s or QB’s, absolutely not.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:01 am
Vegas Raider said something good. And I agree. It’s not like we have to spend first rounders on OL/DL/LB. But look back on our recent drafting history at the amount of players we draft from certain positions…especially given our weaknesses in the team that have been screaming for focus.
From the post by Raiderzmaverick listing the last three years, as a sample, you see…
WR x 6
DE x 5
DB x 4
RB x 3
TE x 2
QB x 1
OT x 1
LB x 1
That’s abysmal. Notice how many OL/DL/LB teams like Steelers, Ravens, Vikings etc draft per season. Each time they do so, it lifts the overall standard of those lines, and weeds out the weakest links. Ensuring the lines are always prime.
Every now and then you top up with key RB/WR/DB players.
But there’s been a major lack of focus on Center, Offensive Guard, Offensive Tackle, Defensive Tackle. Davis treats them all with seeming disdain. When we had the HOF OL imo it was clearly the work of Ron Wolf. Davis couldn’t possibly have always thought highly of the lines and then all of a sudden neglected that principle, seeing as its the foundation of the vertical passing game. Clearly Davis rates skill positions more highly and doesnt appreciate the effect of the lines. Eg, it’s a blocking league (unless youre Barry Sanders or Gayle Sayers), so building a dominant OL will yield a dominant rushing output. Building a dominant front seven will strangle teams from rushing it and also help in terms of the pass rush…the natural pressure Davis loves would come if he focused on top DT prospects, allowing all those DEs he loves to draft to become more effective.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Vegas…..
Even with those players our run D is very poor.
I did want Raji with last years pick…….and Dorsey with the one before that ! Shows what I know.
What we needed with the 2nd pick was a “real” middle linebacker.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:11 am
GG,
That’s my point, thanks for adding on to it. It’s not O-line in the first-round that is the problem, it is not addressing it at all. Most starting Guards in this league where not drafted in round 1. We already have a very good LT, so drafting a LT and moving him to RT sounds like a recipe for another wasted pick.
The Steelers have drafted 6 WR’s in rounds 1 or 2 the last 10 years, as well as a TE, a QB, a RB, a TE and a S. They drafted 1 O-lineman in the first round 7 years ago, and he is out of the league now. Show me a top-level team in the league right now that has focused on O-line at the top of the draft.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:14 am
…..giving up 161 yards on the ground per game.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Off for a bite…..
Back later to see the game.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:16 am
Look at the Ravens, they drafted the best O-lineman in the draft this year, Michael Oher who should make the Pro-Bowl, and they are worse than they were last year.
Coaching and QB is the key to this league, everything is part of the supporting cast.
The Browns have taken a LT and a C in the first round in 2 of the last 3 years, yet they still have the worst offense in the NFL. Why? No QB.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:17 am
McFadden shows flashes only to fumble or get hurt again. What are the chances he becomes a legitimate top-15 RB? I know RBs usually establish themselves pretty early in their careers. You look at his college career and it’s hard to imagine him failing to become one of the better backs in the NFL.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:19 am
BTW, Rob Ryan’s Browns D is on pace to give up the most yards in a season in 25 years, LOL.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:20 am
You’re totally right Vegas.
Naturally, OGs and DTs arent considered skill positions to warrant drafting real high. You can draft like 4 linemen in the last couple rounds, and from that a couple might turn out rosterable. Then you might sign a few undrafted ones as well, and maybe sign a FA or two. And then put them all thru camp to fight for roster spots. Doing that every year with DL/OL/LB is imperative.
Then you can validate drafting QBs, RBs, WRs, and DBs in the first couple rounds year after year cos at least you’re always addressing with focus the lines.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:21 am
Just a quickie….
Good point ’bout the Browns.
later..
November 15th, 2009 at 9:26 am
Vegas
Wrong.
Play makers do not make plays unless they have the time and space to do so.
Offensive line units are exclusively designed to create time and space.
Yes the Cardinals TRENCHED there way to the Super Bowl.
Did you watch their game against Carolina?
Did Warner have time to throw against Pittsburgh?
It all starts with the Oline.
If you do not think so then look at the Raiders. Even in their wins they have scored 10 and 13 poits.
Our Oline is below average we are below average.
By the way,what did the Steelres use their number one pick on in last years draft?
November 15th, 2009 at 9:28 am
GG,
We should let Al draft from round 3 on, and just take whoever is highest on Mel Kiper’s “board” in rounds 1 and 2.
You are right about later rounds being good for the line. Look at Phil Loadholt of the Vikings, the best RT in the draft, but he lasted into the 40’s and is dominating already. You can get a guy who started 30 games in the SEC at RG in round 3 every year.
Meanwhile, every year 4 or 5 (or more) LT’s are taken in round 1 and every year at least 1 and sometimes 2 of them are complete busts.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:32 am
GG
Wrong.
The Cowboys of the 90’s did not start winning until they drafted a DT named Russell Maryland with a number one pick. They had Smith,Irvin and Aikman but did not win until the lines gelled.
There is not any skill guy coming into the NFL who can overcome weak line play. Never. None.
Calvin Johnson was the best WR in the last 50 years coming out and he has had ZERO impact on the W/L record in Detroit.
ZERO as in the number of wins they had last year. ZERO.
LINE PLAY IS WHERE EVERYTHING STARTS and we have had weak lineplay for sven straight years.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:32 am
Charlie Says:
November 15th, 2009 at 9:26 am
By the way,what did the Steelres use their number one pick on in last years draft?
*****************************************
A Defensive End, than traded out of the second round and drafted a WR in round 3.
The Cardinals beat the Panthers because they got 5 picks. They averaged less than 3.5 yards a carry THE ENTIRE POSTSEASON!!!!!
Fitz took his team to the Bowl, and almost won it. Ben and Holmes did win it. The Steelers lead the league in sacks allowed last year, had the 3rd worst YPC and were at the bottom in 3rd and 1 conversions!!!! All that equals a crappy O-line.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Vegas said..
You are right about later rounds being good for the line. Look at Phil Loadholt of the Vikings, the best RT in the draft, but he lasted into the 40’s and is dominating already. You can get a guy who started 30 games in the SEC at RG in round 3 every year.
Meanwhile, every year 4 or 5 (or more) LT’s are taken in round 1 and every year at least 1 and sometimes 2 of them are complete busts.
——-
Exactly right. I was watching the draft pick by pick the whole way thru, and in the latter rounds I was creaming myself at the great amount of OL talent that was there. Like you said, guys high on potential, highly rated physically, needing some work on their game, perfect to draft. And seeing them all just get taken pick after pick. But we never grab any ever.
Also neglect to draft good early-mid round LBs and DTs.
it would be good sometimes if Al traded down and down collecting a bag of late round picks to just draft a bunch of OL/DL/LBs with. Save the 1st for a skill position, or just BPA.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:34 am
16 im glad u posted that fa blog up by lacanfora. i thought kampman was under contract but he isnt. we need to pursue him as a fa and move big sey inside where kelly is and say f off to him and warren. vegas, dmc can play so we cant give up on him after a year and a half. cedric benson is kickin azz now with cincy so we have to be patient. i agree about not having to pick ol/dl in the first round. its not where u get em but if u get em. matt s and d bryant will be good players and the fact they are high motor guys is a good thing.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Charlie,
When was the last time the Colts or Patriots drafted an O-lineman in the first round? Steelers? Saints? Once every 8 years is about what they average.
Some good those 2 first-rounders on the O-line are doing for the worst offense in the NFL, the Browns.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Charlie…
Hang on….you misread….ive just posted a billion posts in this thread earlier about how it is all about the lines, and Davis neglects them. That any smart XO man would appreciate and genuflect towards building dominant OL/DL/LB. So dont get me wrong, i totally agree.
But Vegas is also right…there are billions of good prospects in mid-late rounds. You dont have to draft them all early. The Cowboys built great OL’s by drafting a ton of them in the latter rounds. Many teams with current success do this as well. Steelers, Vikings, Patriots, etc etc.
As Vegas was emphasizing….it’s not about where you draft them as such, but just the total neglect of drafting them that is the problem.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:39 am
well i believe we will draft those positions this year cuz we have all of the skill ones taken.those positions yall want them to draft just happen to be the most physically demanding ones also. notice how soft we play well just look at who is on both sides of the lines and at lb and youll see why. we need to get some physically imposing players and not just speed guys.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:40 am
M Paquiao!! He is a beast at 145.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:40 am
For instance, if we drafted Eugene Monroe or Alex Mack this year, would our offense be any better? IMO, not much if at all.
But if drafted Chris Johnson instead D-Mac or Percy Harvin instead of DHB, our offense would be A LOT better.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:44 am
The most important skill position of all tho is something that’s gonna cruel this offense/team for some years yet. Bad draft choice (russell). A skill position that is likely still needing to be addressed, casting off the current for a new one (either rookie or back-up type/vet).
November 15th, 2009 at 9:47 am
Armond,
I haven’t given up on D-Mac entirely, but he is what he is, very fast, not very physical, injury-prone and has a problem with fumbles. He can correct the fumbles, and maybe stay healthy, but he is not a tackle-breaker.
Look at Chris Johnsons’ run against the Jags a few weeks ago. Met the safety heads-up about 8 yards down the field, and completly steam-rolled him and than run for 70 yards. I have never seen Darren run over anyone.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:48 am
GG
Sorry.
My issue is that the draft is about probabilities.
The odds are you are going to get higher quality with the higher round picks.
It is possible you will find a Hall of Fame OT in round seven.
The odds are better finding Hall of Fame talent in rounds one and two.
My point is that no elite skill guy in round one will overcome poor line play. Ever.
However a fourth rounder like Tom Brady can be very succesful with a great Oline. Denver is a classic case of finding good RB’s in the mid rounds BECAUSE OF A SUPERIOR OLINE.
I understand the logic about drafting elite skill talent with your first pick. ONLY IF YOUR LINE PLAY IS ACCEPTABLE.
DMAC and Bey were luxuries the Raiders could not afford and we are paying the price today.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:52 am
Charlie,
Point taken, and you have a lot of truths to your post.
But I don’t think WR was a luxury pick for us this year, we had (statistically speaking) one of the least productive WR units in NFL history last year.
I do agree with D-Mac though. Not a dire need, as we were in the top 10 in rushing the year before.
My point is, you get your stars at the top of the draft, and your meat and potatoes in later rounds. That’s what the best teams in the NFL do, and we should try to copy them.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:56 am
Yep, will echo Vegas’ post. You make a lot of valid points, Charlie. I agree with you anyway. Look how productive tons of receivers around the league are who arent explosive….Derek Mason, Hines Ward etc types. Just smart footballers, not speedsters. But it all comes together because the OL and QB are so good.
Same with D. When you have a dominant front seven led by a smart MLB and a rock of gibraltor NT, the rest of the DBs come together too.
With Dmac, Imo it might be the loss of Tom Rathman as RB coach that has seen Dmac’s form regress this season. I guess the same could be said of Russell’s coach this season.
But it may ALSO be not just that but McFadden/Russell themselves going thru the motions in this organization. The ones Garcia and Ellis refer to, among others not named.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:59 am
The complaints everyone has about Al drafting skill players wouldn’t be happening if we had Adrian Peterson and Percy Harvin instead of DHB and D-Mac.
We have drafted similar positions in the first round as the Steelers the last 6 years.
We get Russell, Huff, DHB and D-Mac.
They get Ben, Mendenhall, Holmes and Troy P.
November 15th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Vegas
Skill guys need time and space to make plays.
DMAC would be awesome with the Saints or the Colts.
Good NFL teams are good because of superior lineplay and superior QB play which is enabled by time to throw.
(See the Oline again).
The genius of these teams is not in the draft of a Colston or a Jacobs or a Brady. It was the building of the lines in front of these mid to late round skill guys.
This goes back to the days of John Unitas. Look at Plunkett. Bad with the Pats and Niners and great with Oakland.
Why? Upshaw,Shell,Dalby,Lawrence,Hannah.
The evidence is obvious.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:06 am
Charlie,
I’m not saying O-line is worthless, certainly we need to improve it. But if the O-line improves and Fargas is still more productive than D-Mac?
You think Darren would be awesome with the Saints and Colts. I don’t. Bush is more athletic than D-Mac and he ain’t doing squat. You have to be able to break tackles in the NFL these days as a RB, you aren’t going to get great blocking every play.
What about the Broncos game this year, for instance. All the time in the world to pass out of his own end zone, Jamarcus throws into double-coverage, and our WR just falls down. What is the O-line supposed to do, block, throw the ball and catch it? McFadden goes untouched for 7-8 yards, then has zero vision, doesn’t see the LB about to blast him and of course fumbles. O-line did their job, our skill guys did not.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:09 am
“More Deadly”….. say-wah?
“MORE”…. “MORE” Deadly – wow, he cannot be serious!?!
With that statement in mind, what’s the over/under on “JaMoDeadly” today? Something like:
175 yards/1 TD/2 Int/1 Fumble/3 Sacks
Unbelievable!!!
November 15th, 2009 at 10:11 am
Pre-Mock O:
1- DT Suh, LB McClain, or LB Spikes.
2- DT Vince Oghobaase (Duke), RT Trent Williams, or CB Crezdon Butler ( he is 6′0 & and runs a sub 4-4).
3- RTs Kyle Calloway, Gabe Carimi, or Sam Young.
3- CB Walter Thurmond Oregon or CB Brandon Ghee Wake Forest.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:16 am
What’s today’s over/under on…..
McFadden slipping
McFadden fumbling
Jamarcus missing wide open receiver
Jamarcus fumbling
DHB drops
Chris Johnson blown coverages
Fake field goals resulting in a touchdown the other way
November 15th, 2009 at 10:16 am
Anyone else watching STeelers-Ravens?
I am watching Rey-Rey overrun play after play on this first drive
November 15th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Lolcat image of fat russell stretching his leg in the red jersey with the words “we is becoming more deadly”
November 15th, 2009 at 10:23 am
vegas mcfadden can break tackles but need to give him time. 1rst we havent seen enuff of him to truly rate him and he isnt being used properly. why arent we running some wildcat creatively with him. his versatility is great misused. are line isnt great so he wont be as good as he can be until its improved. we also have a very f-ed up environment to develope guys right now. and he is a downhill runner so we need to get him to a hole let him make his 1 or 2 cuts and go. this crap were doing now isnt right.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:24 am
Vegas
Again, football is a game of probabilities.
The more time and space a skill player has the more he is LIKELY to look good. Not every time but the majority of the time.
I have watched Raider football since 1963 and I have seen very pedestrian skill guys look good because of great Oline play.
The history of Oakland’s success with reclamation projects like Todd Christainson and Plunkett was because of Hall of Fame O line play.
Not just All Pro but HALL OF FAME caliber line play.
The immaculate reception game had the Raiders starting four of five Hall of Fame players on the Oline in Shell, Otto, Upshaw and Bob Brown.
HALL OF FAME.
Biletnikoff, Branch, had four and five seconds to get open. Biletnikoff was slow and Branch dropped a ton of passes in his first three years. It did not matter because the Raiders would just pound it out with SLOW plodders like Hubbard and Van Eeghan.
Who the hell ever even heard of Van Eeghan and Hubbard in college?
The Raiders have gotten away from building the lines and it is the PRIMARY reason for their problems the last seven years. Not the ONLY reason but the biggest one.
Build the lines and the rest will follow.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:27 am
raider o i like your ideas with the draft. add carlos dunlap to the first rnd and move sey inside where kelly is. imagine this, de ellis and dunlap, dt sey and ??. also t cody is considered to be slipping back right now but u know how things change.we definately need to get some impact lbs now.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:30 am
Pre Mock O: Cont’d
4- DE Alex Carrington Ark, OG
5- LBs Ryan DImperio Rutgers, Boris Lee Troy, Pat Angerer Iowa, Jamar Chaney Miss, or Luke Laolagi SDSU. ( Go Aztecs)
5- OL
6- FB
7- RB
November 15th, 2009 at 10:32 am
charlie u are right about the raiders and their great lines but ill take it a step further. it goes along with a teams identity. the steelers have always been famous for their lbs. look at every championship steeler team and they had quality lbs. the raiders need to be true to their roots and dominate on the oline especially with the talent at the skill positions. jr dmc bush z miller dhb chaz jlh murphy are all good prospects whether people want to admit it or not. but only 2 lineman (mario, gallery) can match their abilities. now thats a problem.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:34 am
Charlie,
I respect your knowledge, you probably know more about the Raiders than I will every (I am 29).
But with all do respect, the NFL is a different game in 2009 than it was 1979. Today, you have to make plays. The Titans, Giants, Panthers and Ravens were all teams built on being physical, tough O-lines and some pedestrian skill players. They had great regular seasons, and went a combined 1-4 in the playoffs.
Meanwhile, teams like the Cardinals and Eagles had great runs, with loads of talented skill guys. Even the Steelers (offensively) have a QB known for just running around, improvising and making plays with guys hanging all over him. Throwing to a 1st round pick at WR (Holmes) and TE (Miller).
So I will meet you half-way. The Raiders, at their current crappy state, can greatly improve the easiest with building SUPERIOR lines. But it will only take us so far (around 8-8 or so) without talented skill players making occasional plays when blocking does go so well. Our skill players now don’t even make plays when they get exceptional blocking on a play. Hell, we still might turn it over.
On that note, I am pulling a Costanza and bailing until after kick-off. Good run this moring fella’s!!!
Road team has covered 12 games in a row between Chiefs-Raiders, so Raiders win by 1, 14-13.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:34 am
o add keaton kristick from oregon st as lb too.sydquan as a nickel cb would be a good choice as well.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:35 am
Armond,
I do like C Dunlap a lot, and I want to add him to the 1st, but I don’t see DE as much of a need unless we move Sey to DT as you suggested. In that case : Hell Yeah, draft the beast!
November 15th, 2009 at 10:41 am
And before I go….
Raider O, If I ever own a football team, I am hiring you and Florida Pete as directors of scouting. I watch A TON of college football, and have never heard of half these guys you are always throwing out.
November 15th, 2009 at 10:42 am
Armond,
Maybe Al should hire us as scouts!
Atleast we have Madden the game to show our talents!! lol
November 15th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Vegas,
It’s a gift from God. lol
Paquiao VS May!! Now that’s a fight!!
Make it happen Vegas!
November 15th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Vegas
Enjoyed the conversation.
One last thought.
The only difference I have seen in Pro football over the last fifty years is the speed of defensive ends which has helped create the zone blitz.
The game is STILL won/lost based on matchups at the line of scrimmage.
Ultimately it is a game of time and space.
Your Oline creates it and your Dline tries to destroy it.
Everyone else on the field is USELESS without time and space.
I have seen Namath, Dawson, Staubach and more recently Tom Brady look awful inept when their protection breaks down.
Think about that the next time you watch JR get nervous feet and make a bad throw.
November 15th, 2009 at 11:03 am
Mornin!
I think Charlie and Vegas are both right. But you really have to factor in need. You can say what you want about this team, but the ONE thing that has been consistently bad is tackling and run defense. Because our defense is so unreliable, we want offense to ensure we can score 24-28 pts a game. I say plug up the holes on defense, and we will be in WAY more games.
We need a MLB, DT, and Nickle corner in the worst way, IMO. I believe if we shore up those positions, our defense will be one that can easily hold teams to 20 pts or less each game.
November 15th, 2009 at 11:17 am
Second Keaton Kristick!! Dudes fast and gots fire!!
November 15th, 2009 at 11:19 am
Jhill
Top team priority is Oline simply because it allows you to score points and keeps your D off the field.
It also protects your QB.
A close second is Dline.
I had Dline as the top team priority until we got Seymour.
Draft priority for me would be RT,RG,DT in that order.
Warren is AWFUL and disappears against good Olines. He will be gone next year.
In 2011 I would look at MLB shifting Morrison outside.
Similar to the Oline and trying to evaluate skill guys, I think it is hard to evaluate LB’s behind guys like Warren and a very inconsistent Kelly.
Ellis is aging but we may have enough with Scott and Shaugnessy to be OK.
November 15th, 2009 at 11:31 am
agreed also, RT RG and DT
November 15th, 2009 at 11:50 am
Raiders should be using McFadden like Philly uses Westbrook. They should be doing a lot of things.
November 15th, 2009 at 11:54 am
I think our LB corp needs some adjustements too, we need a run-stopper there like Biekert was in his time
DL is fine. If Shaugnessy does well like he did in San Diego the last game, maybe we can play Seymour and Kelly inside, with Shaughnessy and Ellis outside.
Routt is a FA, our 4th CB is Holland, and C Johnson is 30. So they are going to look at CB via Draft/Free Agency
November 15th, 2009 at 12:02 pm
Charlie,
I agree with you, actually.
I just think that we can get a good RT and RG prospect in rd 3 and 4.
MLB and Nickle corner have to be addressed.
I’d actually like to see us add a solid veteran at RG, and maybe see what Walker had left at RT. Obviously, I’d like to see us get away from the ZBS and add more beef to the line. But with Henderson, Gallery, and Satele looking like fixtures, I’d like to see a solid vet added to that group.
Like Cuz says though, I’d be ok with a decent MLB and Nickle acquistion via FA.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Then again, looks like we will be picking somewhere around 8-12 as oppossed to top 5.
So with that in mind, OL would be a decent pick there. That or LB.
November 15th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I agree that we need to see how JaDoofus can play with a decent receiving core, not these hapless donuts, but I’m not saying give him 3 freakin years, or even one year, he has to show SOME progress almost right away, or he is just another Ryan Leaf or worse.