Is Gradkowski a Gannon . . . or a Hollas?
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, December 11th, 2009 at 6:28 pm in Oakland Raiders.
The Raiders once had a fiery quarterback typecast as a backup who went on a surprising run of victories under coach Jon Gruden.
A year later, Rich Gannon arrived.
Bruce Gradkowski has breathed some life back into the Raiders, winning over fans and teammates with his energy, quick feet and a knack for producing in the two-minute drill.
It’s drawn comparisons with Gannon, which Gradkowski addressed Thursday, correctly noting it was far too soon to put him anywhere near the level of a quarterback who delivered three consecutive division titles, an AFC championship and a Most Valuable Player award.
It’s also entirely possible, although not nearly as optimistic, that once teams begin zeroing in on Gradkowski with specific game plans, he might not be quite the operator he’s been through two of his three starts in Oakland.
Consider the case of Donald Hollas.
In 1998, Gruden’s first year with the Raiders, Hollas won the job as backup quarteback to Jeff George, with veteran Wade Wilson at No. 3.
George went down with a serious groin injury in Week 3, with Hollas taking over at quarterback. Relying heavily on its defense, and Hollas running a fairly conservative offense, the Raiders won road games in Dallas and Arizona and escaped with a 7-6 win over San Diego when Hollas was ineffective and Wade Wilson emerged to throw a 68-yard touchdown pass to James Jett with 1:28 to play.
Hollas went back in the lineup and the Raiders beat Cincinnati 27-10 and Seattle 31-18.
In the Seahawks game, Holllas completed 12 of 22 passes for 237 yards, at one point standing up in the face of a murderous rush and throwing a 47-yard strike to Jett on a post. It was his best game as a pro. Following a 13-10 loss to Baltimore, Hollas beat future Hall of Famer Warren Moon for the second time in three weeks, completing 20 of 31 passes for 266 yards (with a pair of interceptions).
At that point, Hollas (including the San Diego game, which was won on Wilson’s pass to Jett) had started seven games and won six. You want Gruden’s biggest achievement as Raiders coach? That might be it. Friendly and soft-spoken off the field, Hollas on occasion would openly argue with Gruden during games.
Hollas’ star dimmed considerably afterward.
The Raiders lost big in Denver, with George deemed healthy enough to start against the Redskins the following week _ whiich coincidentally is the last time Washington has played in Oakland. George looked slow and unsure of himself in the first half and Hollas replaced him in the second half of a 29-19 loss in a game in which the Raiders were favored.
When Hollas came in to start the second half, the Coliseum crowd roared with approval.
Miami came to town next, and it was a nightmare for Hollas. He completed 12 of 35 passes, threw six interceptions and twice threw passes out of his own end zone that were returned for touchdowns.
Hollas was never again a starter in the NFL and was out of football after the 1998 season.
Gradkowski is 26, four years younger than Hollas in 1998. His skill leading the Raiders from behind is not one Hollas exhibited in his brief run.
The NFL, as Gradkowski said, is full of stories of quarterbacks like Gannon, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner and Jake Delhomme who became accomplished starters without a prototypical pedigree.
It’s also has its share of guys like Hollas, who had a few weeks of success and then through talent level or circumstance are never heard from again.
Gradkowski could end up either way.
As Russell said Thursday, “Time will tell, time will tell.”
[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]
December 11th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
SnB – I would continue with our running backs into next season. I think this team really needs to focus on improving this offensive line, specifically the right side. Thats supposed to be the strong side in running plays and we’re lacking plus the protection at RT needs to be alot better. Unless a legitimate QB enters free agency, its hard to imagine going into next season with different guys unless Al Davis wants to rid himself of Gradkowski in order to make JR comfortable again but I saw something that said Al can cut JR in an uncapped year and he won’t lose as much money but I’ll have to find that.
If Al Davis can actually cut JR without the same financial issues, he might do it but I’m not sure if he’ll draft another QB or not. I have a feeling JR will be the opening day starter next season on a short leash with the possibility that Gradkowski will be called upon much quicker the next time around.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
lefty12 Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 6:22 pm
24-i’ve said it before-there must be some reason Bush isn’t used more that we as fans aren’t privy to.maybe he has an attitude problem,maybe he dogs it in practice,maybe he is being given the MA treatment for refusing to help the team by changing positions last year-who knows,but there has to be something.
=======================================================
Just start Fargas full-time then
But this partialling out of carries is not working.
And you DON’T NEED 3 BACKS…that’s a bunch of bull
Start Fargas…because that’s who Cable wants to start and cut DMAC and trade Bush while he has value.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:36 pm
it doesn’t matter if gradkowski is the next gannon, stabler, and plunkett combined. as long as al davis has a stranglehold on this team, it will continue to be a second-rate organization.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:37 pm
24,
Al Davis has no clue on how to draft and develop a QB.
He’s better off finding these fiery QBs that can fill the leadership vacumm that’s been left due to the dysfunctional org structure in Oakland.
The idea that the Raiders will have a strong-armed QB that can make all the throws is unrealistic in Oakland.
So let’s see what Gradkowski can do and line up some vets in the offseason.
Russell is done and for heavens sake….DO NOT DRAFT ANOTHER QB AGAIN UNTIL THEY CHANGE THEIR DRAFTING METHODS
December 11th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
SnB – I agree but I think JR might be back next year and have another chance considering how much money he makes unfortunately. In fact…I believe JR has more of a chance to stay than Tom Cable because when it all comes down to it, Al Davis will say that Cable couldn’t get JR to play better so it will be the coaches fault.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
That post brought back a lot of old memories. I remember that TD pass by Wilson to win the game against the Chargers. Crazy. I think that was the game that broke a punting record for the most punts by 2 teams in a single game or something like that.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Here is a quote from what I was talking about but I need something more official.
According to ESPN.com’s Adam Schefter the general feeling from owners is that an uncapped season in 2010 is inevitable at this point.
If anything the lack of a salary cap in 2010 would present a rare one of a kind opportunity for owners to shed salary.
Teams would be able to dump bloated contracts they don’t want without suffering the regular salary-cap ramifications. One such candidate could be Oakland quarterback JaMarcus Russell, who is scheduled to count $15 million against the cap for 2010, only $3 million of which is guaranteed. So if the Raiders wanted to pay the $3 million to Russell and let him go, they wouldn’t have to pay his base salary or take the severe cap hit. It’s a similar story in Tennessee with quarterback Vince Young, who has a $4.25 million roster bonus due March 10 to go along with a salary of $2.8 million. If the Titans decided to release him, they’d clear out over $7 million worth of payments.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
lefty12 Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
saying Cable WANTS to start Fargas is a total lie.he has said and it has been reported many times he wishes Dmac or Bush would step up and take the job,but neither has.
======================================================
well, then draft someone. The Raiders DO NOT HAVE A CONSISTENT RUNNING GAME. And the way the Raiders play ball…they need one.
So if there is no one onf the roster….then make a deal to bring someone in..(draft or free agency). Maybe Marshawn Lynch can be had for a trade.
65 yards doesn’t cut it. And if Bush is on the outs then so be it. DMAC should be cut or traded…
December 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
24,
Russell should be cut as soon as the 2010 fiscal year starts. Cut him.
The Raiders have the highest payroll in the league yet have a roster littered with role players, backups and underachievers.
Stop the sentimental BS and recognize what you have.
Russell will never be better than Gradkowski in Oak
DMAC is no Peterson, C. Johnson or even Cedric Benson
DHB will not outperform Murphy or Schilens
So stop paying these guys as if they are starters…let alone the top of their profession
December 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
wrong-when we drafted Russell he was considered the best QB in the draft-and don’t bring up Quinn,he sucks too-and we needed a QB desperately.it is becoming obvious he wasn’t what we hoped for,but you can’t say never draft that position again.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:55 pm
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=QB&y=2010
Heres a list of the Free Agent QB’s for next season so far and whether they are signed already or not like Eli Manning. You can see all the positions here.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
lefty12 Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
wrong-when we drafted Russell he was considered the best QB in the draft-and don’t bring up Quinn,he sucks too-and we needed a QB desperately.it is becoming obvious he wasn’t what we hoped for,but you can’t say never draft that position again.
======================================================
He was considered the 1st to go because everyone knew Davis wouldn’t do his homework.
Russell showed up to the combine out of shape.
Did davis even put this kid on the board to diagram a play?
I am sick and tired of the next hype.
Time to get tactical and realistic. Build the team through late round picks and targeted free agents.
The Raiders drafting methods at the top of the draft are badly flawed.
Russell showed up overweight, slothful and lacks knowledge of football basics.
CUT HIM!
December 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Raiders should have stuck with Walter or McCown…..
The Raiders are good for developing corner backs..
Quarterbacks..no way. Not enough consistency in the coaching staff or scheme.
No more QBs…..bring in some vets to compete with Gradkowski and hope for the best. It looks like all the Raiders need is someone serviceable.
December 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
I think Russell and Quinn were equal in terms of being the best QB but you have to fit both of those guys in the systems they were currently playing in in order for them to be successful. Based on Kiffin’s style of offense, Quinn fit that more than JR. Thats the problem. A player can be a product of its environment and consider Derek Anderson couldn’t regain his form with the Browns and their new Head Coach, the coaching staff seems to be more of a problem than either Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson. They have no talent on offense.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:00 pm
24,
Go ahead and bring in Chad Pennington.
Let him compete with Gradkowski.
Cut Russell and keep Frye and let Frye compete as well.
Tell Al Davis to get over his fascination with the deep ball!
December 11th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Best Free Agent QB’s for 2010 imo.
Jason Campbell
David Carr
Jon Kitna
Kyle Orton
Chad Pennington
Sage Rosenfels
Troy Smith
December 11th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
we all like to complain about the draft,but Dmac was considered a one of a kind RB coming out of college which proves even the so called draft experts get it wrong as much as anyone else.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
Maybe the Raiders did more homework than most think.the reason Russell held out was the Raiders wanted the opportunity to recoup some of the money if he turned out to be a flake or pulled a Vick.if i remember right everyone said just pay him,give him the money,get him in camp.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
J.Campbell is no better than anything we have now.why do people keep bringing him up-he is avg. at best-probably below avg.?
December 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
AL DAVIS IS A GENIUS AND A DEMI GOD. F U K K YOU GUYS FOR BASHIN DA GREAT 1/ SAYIN THE TEAM WILL BE BAD AS LONG AS HES AROUND. YALL ACT LIKE DAVIS IS THE WORST OWNER IN SPORTS HISTORY? I CANT WAIT TILL WE WIN. YOU D BAGS BETTER NOT EVEN CHEER .
December 11th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
btw,24 with your love of ND it doesn’t surprise that you still think Quinn is a decent NFL QB.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
24 U ARE OFFICIALLY AN IDIOT ..!! JASON CAMPBELL? HAHAHHAHA
KYLE ORTON ? ARE U SERIOUS? CHAD PENINGTON. ? I WOULD COMMIT SUICIDE. REALLY!!
December 11th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/stats?playerId=8440
Jason Campbell’s stats are not terrible.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
Lefty12 – Felix Jones was very comparable to McFadden but I believed Jones was better based on what I saw and I said he would have a better career. That is the case so far.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Doriangray – Don’t be a retard. We’re not saying these guys are the best choices to lead the team, we’re saying these are the best free agents available and thats unfortunate but its all we have to work with. Chill the eff out.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
Lefty12 – I won’t deny it…My Quinn opinion might be jaded but that guy was great on a team that didn’t have very much talent and his situation in Cleveland has been less than stellar. Adding Mangini only made things worse. At least Quinn is a hard worker.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
MAN WE BETTER DRAFT EITHER TONY PIKE. COLT MCCOY . RYAN MALLETT . OR DA NOTRE DAME KID. 1 GONNA BE AROUND IN 3RD ROUND .
December 11th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
http://walterfootball.com/draft2010.php0
THEY HAVE US DRAFTING THIS OT
December 11th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
i also said Jones would be a better pro,just as i argued with Dakota that there were many RBs who would be as good or better than Dmac.but my point was ALL the so called experts said Dmac was the best RB in the draft,and he was a sure lock to be great.well,he wasn’t and he isn’t,proving the draft is not an exact science.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
AND WHAT BOUT JAKE LOCKER? DUDE IS ACCURATE. STRONG ARM. AND WILL RUN DA BALL .
December 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
http://www.nfldraftdog.com/Mock-Drafts/2010-nfl-mock-draft.html
December 11th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Great post Jerry. I was like 15 when I went to those games, and that was the one season where I caught a lot of the Raiders games in person. I remember being in the crowd cheering for Hollas, while my dad looked on kinda laughing. I remember being at the game against Miami when it all fell completely apart. His throws were too weak, if defenders read the reads correctly and broke on time there was plenty of time to reach the ball. Gradkowski is something in between, his arm strength seems better than Hollas’ but he still has a small window of time when he can throw the ball on medium depth routes, whereas Hollas’ was so lacking in arm strength he couldn’t even throw the short routes to the sideline effectively under press coverage.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
And let me guess which one you are hoping it to be?
December 11th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
Locker is going back for his SR year according to his coach and we don’t have a 1st rounder in2011.too bad,he will be a very good to great QB whom i wish we could have.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
dont matter to me which one. they all white. i hate black qbs.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
just draft 1 of em hell.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Why don’t you turn your caps lock off, Doriangray. The louder you shout your inane comments THE MORE IDIOTIC YOU SOUND. And, let’s be candid here, the last remaining Al Davis defenders are some of the most obtuse fans on the planet. Grow up for chrissakes.
As for the endless, mindless speculation about talent holes on this team, why is it nobody can ever understand that this dysfunctional environment–created by megalomaniac par excellence Al Davis–makes it nearly impossible to rationally evaluate anybody. Can’t strengthen the body with an in festered head on top.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:51 pm
Are any of you guys going to the game this weekend?
December 11th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
I’m coming from Las Vegas and need some tailgate info!
December 11th, 2009 at 7:55 pm
I didn’t remember Hollas starting 6-1.
I do remember the six picks. One was on a screen pass right on the goalline.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
Bruce is no Donald Hollas.
Bruce has had way better games than Hollas did.
December 11th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Hey Vegas? While your at the Hilton this weekend, it looks like I’ll be in Oaktown!
December 11th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
how many names do you post under-….raider?
December 11th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
OBTUSE? UGHH. DA FUKK DOES DAT MEAN ? ANYWAY. ohioraider why dont soft azz raider fans like u go be 49er fan. al davis got us this far .
December 11th, 2009 at 8:03 pm
Sweet!!
Did you go down to the Hilton last week?
December 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Does anyone know of a spot where I could pay a cover to tailgate? I ain’t got room in my car to take a grill, pop-up tent, cooler etc.
December 11th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
No…I watched it at home. You?
December 11th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Gradkowski is not Hollas.
McDonald is not Hemmingway.
December 11th, 2009 at 8:08 pm
I was there.
Good turnout of Raider fans.
I don’t have the dish, so I don’t get to watch them at home.
December 11th, 2009 at 8:12 pm
Live stream from my internet! (free)
December 11th, 2009 at 8:13 pm
Sometimes in bad footing it can benefit the WR’s a little more for big plays.
We can’t let Moss get loose on us. They throw at least one deep ball to him a game it seems when I have watched them.
December 11th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
[...] Read more. [...]
December 11th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Grads hasn’r done half of what Hollas did. When Hollas was with the Bengals he showed he could play. When he came here he was seen much in the same vien as Grads was preseason favorite. Same as Grads, he won several games before his meltdown with Gruden. He hated Gruden and cursed him many times in front of the team and finally he cut him.
Gradkowski is a very average at best QB not at all close to Gannon. But you guy’s have visions of granduer with Grads and I’m afraid will be very disappointed in him if he continues to start and then struggle. You’ll all turn on, the vipers that you are. He’s amediocre QB who’s been thrust into the spotlight beatings a Steelers team that has fallen on hard times.
All you Grads fans we’re watching you because we know you’ll turn on your own mother. Lowly scumbags that you are. He is what he is but you’ll turn on him as soon as he shows what he really is.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Priesttj
bro, I know you love JR but enough hating on Grad already man. The guy has done nothing but been a leader, worked hard, and won us 2 games in 3 starts. When the season is over and he sucks the rest of the way, you can bash all you want. Right now, he’s the best thing that has happened to us in the last few years. All your bashing seem kinda foolish.
let me tell you how you should analyze Grad.
1. Against Cinci – he was shaky in the 1st half. Cable said he was too excited. he settled down and showed up in the 2nd half.
2. Against Dallas – He found the open receiver even when running for his life. he couldnt connect. I predicted with an earlier post that we should give him a few games to see if he can connect with the open guy.
3. Against Steelers – When forced to pass, he found the open guy and finally connected.
What you are seeing is a progression. You dont need a big arm in this league. You need to know your plays, be accurate and MOTIVATE the troops. With that avg at best Oline we need a mobile qb.
all your analysis seem petty and no logic or reason. You should stop the bashing and put up something that is more logical. Other than that, you’re just being petty cuz he is winning and your boy is being benched with cause.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Aig – Good points. Also…Priest is not a JR fan, he just doesn’t like how everyone will root for a guy while hes up but step on him while hes down and he doesn’t think Gradkowski’s play is going to last very long and once he starts to fail, the fan base will squash him and they will hate him like they hate JR and its legitimate because thats what this business is all about. What have you done for me lately?
The difference between JR and Grad is the expectations. JR is a 1st round pick and we all expect him to be great and he hasn’t done much to prove that hes progressing towards being just that. Grad is proving that this team has more talent than JR is able to take advantage of and his hard work and dedication is paying off so far. That could very well end once defenses key up on how to stop him but hes doing it with the same offense that JR has been failing with so for now…its fun to watch and maybe the guy is growing up too? I just want a great and consistent starting QB, I don’t care who it is.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:36 pm
24,
no man, priest is a HUGE HUGE JR guy. I have seen him posted that many times.
However, I am with you that I also dont care who we have back there so long as we start winning. It has been a long time to be this excited about the Raiders again and actually see the potential light at the end of that tunnel.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Aig – Well…Priest backtracks on a lot of things he says. He’ll say one thing and then say another thing but we all have moments where we do that as well. All I know is…I believe he was against drafting him but maybe I’m forgetting the truth. I don’t know but I guess it doesn’t really matter.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Aig,
We’ll see who’s bashing him when the time cmes. I ealize what he is and who he is. B ut you guy’s have gone way overboard on an average QB still learing. When he proves he’s not a star you’ll all turn on him like you do everyone when the expectation shouldn’t be nearly as high as it is. He’s a average QB at best.
The difference betwenn Russell and Grads is not much at all. Grads is more confident but how lng will that last? This is the NFL and DC’s will get a book on him and shut him down if he doesn’t show superior ability which he just doesn’t have. Then we’ll see who’s bashing him. I’m just looking at it realistically.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:51 pm
I’m was and still am a huge Russell supporter because I see what he has and it’s huge in terms of talent. Superior talent always wins 100% given the player applies himself which I know Russell is doing.
I don’t argue with guy’s about it because it’s a waste of time. The coaches are happy with what he’s doing and that IMO is worlds apart from what you think. But what you think doesn’t matter it’s the coaches and the owner……..period
December 11th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
Priest you must be out of your mind. If you read that JR interview and you actually think he even remotely has enough intelligence to be an NFL qb, dude, you are in your own private Idaho. Not to mention is utter lack of personal responsibility.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
and you think Russel applies himself? Seriously, that’s just stupid.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
I don’t think the coaches are happy with what hes doing. Thats why he was benched for an average QB.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pm
An off-duty New England Patriots mascot was arrested during a prostitution sting by Rhode Island cops, one of eight suspected johns nabbed in Johnston, R.I., according to police and press reports.
State police say Robert Sormanti of Warwick was among those arrested in an undercover sting at a hotel. Sormanti, 47, one of several performers who don the Pat Patriot costume at Patriots games across the country, was charged with soliciting sex for a fee and was released on his own recognizance after his arraignment, The Providence Journal reported.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/football/patriots/view.bg?articleid=1218303
December 11th, 2009 at 9:56 pm
Physical ability is nothing if you’re not smart enough to know how to use it!
I’m out.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:58 pm
Priest,
Bro, look at what you’re saying. First, I dont expect Grad to be a star. I think our team can win and be respectable with an avg production from the QB position. That is all I am aksing for now after the last 7 years. We ahve been crawling…I want to walk…before we run. When we run, I dont care if it is JR or Joe Six pack back there.
But this is how I analyze a QB and I think I am on the right track. In order of priority.
1. Leadership = The QB must have the respect of the players around him because of his position. Work Ethics is part of this.
2. Playbook knowledge – The QB must be able to read and react accordingly based on what the D is giving you. He must find the open receiver.
3. Accuracy – The QB must be able to deliver the ball to the receiver.
4. Mobility – If you dont have a great line, you must be mobile. Gannon didnt have a great line in his first few years so his mobility saved him. In 2002, we had the best OLINE in the league so he didnt need to be mobile.
5. Armstrength
Right now, Grad has 1, 2, 4. Number 3 is a work in progress. He doesnt have 5.
Jr only has #5 unless you point me to where he has shown the other attributes.
I like you man. You’re a loyal Raider guy and not like that idiot Dakotex or Mrs Madden or Kookell or Rachochyt Chihauhau but your argument doesnt have much logic.
December 11th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Hi everybody…
yeah im alive and well, hope i will have time soon to talk some ball with ya all…
Its great that Bruce almighty has taken the reigns and that DHB is injured…
havent posted here since before the KC game, which I said we would lose, i also said that we would end as 4th in the division, something i revise now that JaMarcus isnt the QB…
finally its fun to be a raider, even if its just in flashes =) i walked by a steelers fan the other day he looked like a raider fan from week 4… LOL
see ya guys, take care…
December 11th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Priest, now I see why you Russel him soooooooomuch. Write some more and help me prove my point.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
24,
well then the HC lied two days ago, but I’m sure you know more than he does. All you guy’s are so freakin locked into your dumbass vaccum. The coach said so idiot!!
December 11th, 2009 at 10:01 pm
Bruce reminds me of Warner. Not real big or strong, but accurate enough and very well-prepared. Surround him with athletic receivers like Warner has. Worked last week.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
got to run boys. Later and thanks for the chat. You too Priest.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:04 pm
Good take Jerry.
I don’t think many fans are sold on Gradkowski as some sort of savior just yet. But he has given us real reason for optimism at the QB position for the first time since Gannon.
After a putrid first 9 games of the season — particularly on the offensive side of the ball and especially in the passing game — Gradkowski has led us to 2 wins in 3 games against good teams. He has 4 TD drives to tie or take the lead in the 4th quarter of those two wins. He’s coming off a game in which he won AFC Player of the Week honors for his performance. Yes, there is reason for excitement.
But I think we’d all like to see much more before we annoint him anything out of anything other than pure optimism and diminished expectations.
His game reminds me a little more of Jeff Garcia than Gannon, but I also think he’s on his way to being a more beloved leader of his team than either of those guys, by players and fans alike.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
If Russell really has what it takes, he’ll make like Vince Young and we’ll know ’cause he’ll just go in and kick @ss. I actually would love to see that happen. But he hasn’t even admitted that he played bad in some games yet. Vince Young shut up and got to work.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Priest – Hes just trying to get through the question as its constantly repetitive. What else was he going to say? Actions speak louder than words man…thats why JR is on the bench.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
he could say the truth, no one is thinking anything positive about Russell. Cable has been behind Russell the entire time and he’s been honest in his appraisals.
Russell was benched for one reason and he stated when he benched him. Because he wouldn’t involve the WR’s in the passing game it is as simple as that to those that pay attentin. But to those loooking to hate on Russell they think he’s lying.
Russell could start tomorrow and perform every bit as well as Grads. But that wouldn’t be fair to Grads I think Grads has earned playing until he loses his job nopt have it Taken from him.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
No comments from Ricochet?
Maybe he took my advice and got some professional help for his psychotic obsessive disorder.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Aig,
I have a similar but slightly different take on the key factors for the QB position:
1. Decision-making: This is similar to your “playbook knowledge.” It means recognizing defenses, calling audibles and most importantly recognizing open receivers and having the guts to pull the trigger and throw them the ball. JaMarcus stinks at this, a 0 out of 10. Bruce is probably a 7 out of 10 from what I’ve seen so far. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees would be a 10.
2. Accuracy: Once you make that decision, you’ve got to be precise. Receivers rarely get much separation in the NFL and DBs close quickly. The ball has to be dropped in a very tight window. JaMarcus is probably a 2 of 10 because he can do it perfectly on deep slants and crosses but is terrible at just about every other route. Bruce is probably a 6 but I think there’s room for improvement. Brees, Manning and Gannon are 10s.
3. Leadership: Self explanatory. Brady, Manning and Favre are 10s. JaMarcus a 2. Bruce an 8.
4. Mobility: Speed to pull it down and pick up big chunks is key, but also is just the pocket presence and footwork to avoid the initial rush and buy time for a receiver to get open is even more important. Tom Brady is very good at this latter aspect despite not being very fast at all. I’ve seen Bruce do both and he’s about a 9 so far in my book. Jeff Garcia, a young John Elway and Rich Gannon are all 10s in my book.
5. Arm strength: Self explanatory. Gradkowski is probably a 3 or 4. JaMarcus is a 10. So are Cutler, Favre, Marino and Elway just off the top of my head. It can be an extremely powerful tool if combined with the other above attribtues. Without those other attributes it’s pretty useless though.
Bottom line: If JaMarcus had the same decision-making, accuracy, leadership and mobility of Gradkowski to go along with his arm, we’d be talking about #2 as the next great NFL QB and discussing whether or not we’re gonna get a first-round bye in the playoffs this year.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:28 pm
Priest – I would like nothing more than to see JR succeed because if he succeeds the Raiders succeed but I haven’t seen much positive happen on the football field in regards to his play but obviously, it would help the Raiders greatly for him to play well. It would also make Al Davis look good. The point is, we all want to win and if that starts to happen, everyone will be happy regardless of who the QB is or who the owner is. Thats just the way it works. I don’t “hate” anybody, I just think changes need to be made if they continue down this current path.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:29 pm
With that being said…I have a long day tomorrow so I must go. Goodnight everyone.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
Chris in NY:
Excellent post.
I’d take what Grads. brings to the table anyday over what that Jamarcus fellow brings to the table.
Some are upset that people are piling on Russell, and that it is mean spirited. If Russell showed just a bit of humility, or responsibility, and wasn’t such an ego maniac (for no good reason), than he wouldn’t be so “hate-able”.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
From the Shefter story on ESPN, am I to understand that if next yr. is uncapped, it is possible to dump Russell, and only be out 3 million?
December 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
What about attributes like–
Wearing ostentatious fur coats and jewelry.
Sucking.
Holding out.
Showing up out of shape.
Deflecting blame onto teammates.
Embarrassing us all even more than we thought possible as Raider fans.
Sucking.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
Did I forget to add sucking to that list.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:35 pm
Chris, not bad analysis, however I’ve seen Russell do all that and more many times as starter and he’s shown he can play very well when the game is on the line.
Everybody keeps saying he had the same players and we all know that is not true. Chaz and JLH have had a tremendous affect on the passing game. I’ve seen Russell go 10 out of 11. I’ve seen him go 9 for 24. He is young and learning and gaining confidence. Grads is far from accurate and great in his decision making. He still learning and will throw into a crowd but he has much better command. That’s just understanding defenses in the NFL and the playbook. Russell needs to get there. But that is very simple it’s called reps.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:40 pm
All te p[eripheral stuuf matters not, even if it’s true the kid has some growing up to do no question but he is extremely talented and will soon take that job back on the practice field it’s happening as we speak.
So hate on, it won’t change a thing. Bigots!
December 11th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
# SnB offense defense specialteams Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Raiders should have stuck with Walter or McCown…..
The Raiders are good for developing corner backs..
Quarterbacks..no way. Not enough consistency in the coaching staff or scheme.
No more QBs…..bring in some vets to compete with Gradkowski and hope for the best. It looks like all the Raiders need is someone serviceable.
^^^^^^^^^
Agreed. They can draft a prospect in later rounds….otherwise as long as the looney old man Al is making the top 10 pick selections every year….he better not pick a QB, since the crazy old man can’t keep a coach around for more than 2 years. That type of stupid stuff just hurts the development of a young QB by switching offensive systems terminology every other year.
Those are the type of lousy decisions that ruin the team.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Sucking matters, and I am not a bigot.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
Well. . . .
First of all, I really don’t even want to comment on JaMarcus’ intelligence level.
Pretending to know whether or not the kid is smart is simply pointless. I don’t know him, and neither do any of you.
To really think you can access someone’s intelligence level based on snipets you read in the newspaper or a 15 second interview you watch on TV is pretty dense if you ask me.
None of you know the kid. You don’t know what his heart really is or is not made of.
You don’t know how smart he is or isn’t behind that quiet southern laid-back demeanor.
Do any of you remember Terry Bradshaw?
He didn’t exactly come off as the sharpest tool in the shed.
Who cares?
JaMarcus played awful this year. There’s no sugar-coating that.
But as I’ve said repeatedly, he’s only 24 years old and still has ample opportunity to devote himself to his profession. Most of us weren’t at the top of our skill levels at that age.
Sure, he could end up being a total bust.
I say you stick with the kid (as a back-up) and let him prove otherwise.
It’s not your money and it’s not mine.
What’s to lose?
December 11th, 2009 at 10:44 pm
# aig Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Priesttj
bro, I know you love JR but enough hating on Grad already man. The guy has done nothing but been a leader, worked hard, and won us 2 games in 3 starts. When the season is over and he sucks the rest of the way, you can bash all you want. Right now, he’s the best thing that has happened to us in the last few years. All your bashing seem kinda foolish.
let me tell you how you should analyze Grad.
1. Against Cinci – he was shaky in the 1st half. Cable said he was too excited. he settled down and showed up in the 2nd half.
2. Against Dallas – He found the open receiver even when running for his life. he couldnt connect. I predicted with an earlier post that we should give him a few games to see if he can connect with the open guy.
3. Against Steelers – When forced to pass, he found the open guy and finally connected.
What you are seeing is a progression. You dont need a big arm in this league. You need to know your plays, be accurate and MOTIVATE the troops. With that avg at best Oline we need a mobile qb.
all your analysis seem petty and no logic or reason. You should stop the bashing and put up something that is more logical. Other than that, you’re just being petty cuz he is winning and your boy is being benched with cause.
^^^^^^^^^
Logic and reasoning is thrown the freakin window when it comes to bad weirdo decision makers like Al Davis and Priesst. LOL
December 11th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
Priest,
I have seen a few glimpses of promise in Russell. I mentioned how he throws terriffic, accurate lasers on deep slants and deep crossing patterns. You’re right about him stepping up in the clutch at times too. I feel like in the clutch he finally lets it fly and isn’t afraid to go down field. It seems like the rest of the game he doesn’t have that same sense of urgency though and won’t pull the trigger on passes down field to narrowly open receivers. Instead he opts to check down, throw it away or simply holds the ball until he’s sacked. It shows in the fact that as much as he’s struggled he hasn’t thrown that many INTs — far less than 1 per game. But it also shows in his remarkably lackluster yardage and TD totals. Guy needs to make better decisions, improve his accuracy and be willing to pull the trigger on deep throws throughout the game, not just late in the 4th quarter when our back is against the wall and he has nothing to lose by chucking the ball downfield.
Basically, JR needs to get a sense of urgency in everything he does. From how quickly he drops back from center to his willingness to pull the trigger on throws to open WRs.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
You are a bigot, just in denial.
You should know a lot about sucking you do it all the time.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Fire Cable!
Hire avoid coach, and let him pick his own staff.
Develop JR, DMC, and DHB!
Draft linemen and a MLB!
Cut Warren, both Walkers, Green, Barnes, Cooper, and Fargas & TK if they don’t take a pay cut.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
* a good
December 11th, 2009 at 10:48 pm
# djohnnyg Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
From the Shefter story on ESPN, am I to understand that if next yr. is uncapped, it is possible to dump Russell, and only be out 3 million?
^^^^^^^^
I think so….if they don’t dump him…..then the looney crazy old man better restructure down his contract in this upcoming offseason.
No way an unproductive lazy a$$ like Russell should be getting paid the amount of money he is getting paid for doing NOTHING!
December 11th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Give me one reason that makes me a bigot.
You sound like the one always playing the race card.
One little reason, give it to us.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Murphy, Mitchell, and Bush need more time on the field!
December 11th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
Trade Russell to New England. That should complete their destruction.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Oh…before I go completely. One more thing.
Gradkowski is 26. Russell is 24
Gradkowski has played in 25 Games. JR has played in 28 Games.
Its not like Gradkowski has that much more experience over JR. Hes young as well. Heres the kicker…
Gradkowski – Career Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
Career 25 269 505 53.3 2671 5.3 15 75 16 65.2
Russell – Career Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
Career 28 330 639 51.6 3860 6.0 17 86 21 65.5
Gradkowski – Career 65.2 QB Rating – 4th Year
Russell – Career 65.5 QB Rating – 3rd Year
Russell has 3 more games than Gradkowski and a .3 better QB Rating so Gradkowski needs to prove that hes progressed this year to pass him.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Priesttj:
Hey man – as AIG said – I like you. And I know you love this team, as I do.
You seem to share the same philosophy as myself – that you stand by EVERY man that wears that Silver’n'Black.
I couldn’t stand Marc Wilson, but damn it – he was a Raider and on Sundays, I wished him nothing but success.
I want JaMarcus to succeed as much as any Raider fan in the world.
But, I think you need to understand that this is the best thing that could have happened to him.
I can tell that he’s a good kid. Contrary to what everyone says about him, he’s got heart. He DOES want to succeed.
But he obviously has had absolutely NO idea the amount of effort and dedication it takes at the NFL level to be even a good player, much less a great player.
I’m glad he said he was embarrassed. That’s exactly what I hoped he felt.
And if he’s got the inner-desire to succeed that you and I believe he has, then it’ll eventually come to fruition.
But it’s not there yet. Right now, Gradkowski is doing some real nice things for us. Forget the physical stuff. He’s got the players around him excited to play football again. And after 7 years of hell, that’s HUGE right now.
So all I can say to you is to root your ass off for Gradkowski, because he’s a Raider, and if/when J-Russ is ready to be the man, then that’ll be sweet for those of us that had faith in the kid.
But don’t be so negative towards Gradkowski – whether he’s the next Hollas, or the next Gannon, the man deserves some serious props right now.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:52 pm
Only reason you wouldn’t force JR to take a pay cut or get cut next year is if you were going to get hit with an insane salary cap hit you couldn’t get out from under. In an uncapped year all bets are off.
JaMarcus is due to make $9.5 million in salary next season. No way should Al fork that over. I say offer him a base deal of about $3 million with a lot of incentives.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
I think my current arguement shows that they are pretty equal at this point in their careers so I’m trying to be fair.
On that note…finally…I’m out.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:53 pm
Chris if you were playing with thse two babies you might do the same thing. Grads did it riht away because he had nthing to lose. he wanted to start so he did whatevr the coaches told him to do.
So now Russell sees he has to do what they want regardless to the drops and bad patterns. Grads had two int’s dropped in the Pittsburgh game one was directly due to Murphy running the wrong route. At the end of the game when that pass bounced off the DB it was Murphy’s fault. If it gets picked the fans blame Gards but it was Murphy’s fault. Those twoo babies ran bad patterns every game all game. He refused to throw to them and was benched………period.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Chris,
I agree with post 99. Incentives!
December 11th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
i think we can all agree that no matter what happens with Grad he is an improvement over that spoiled brat name JaUseless
December 11th, 2009 at 10:58 pm
But he’s not supposed t say that, he’s supposed to take the balme wether it’s right or wrong that’s what we want from him take the balme even if it’s not true.
And then if he doesn’t we say he doesn’t take responsibility. Maybe he should maybe he shouldn’t but eventhough he takes the balem for what he does they don’t see it or don’t say that he does. He can’t win for losing because they hate the kid……period so if I’m him I say go to hell and just play for his teamates.
Hell Murphy even said that HE felt repsonsible for Russell getting benched which is not accurate but at least he owns up to some of it.
December 11th, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Ryan Leif, Akili Smith, Jim Druckenmiller, etc., etc.
Those are the names I think of when I think of BUST.
JaMarcus Russell is no bust.
Not one of those players (and you could throw Alex Smith in there too) EVER drove their team down the length of the field in the last 2 minutes and put their team in position to win.
JaMarcus has shown an ability to do that.
“BUSTS” don’t ever show that ability.
Hell, Alex Smith has been in the league for 5 years (o.k. – 3 1/2 years of actual playing time) and he yas yet to do this.
If you think JaMarcus sucks right now – fine. You have every right to.
But, I suggest we all ease up on the grand proclamations that he’s a bust in the true sense of the NFL world.
December 11th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
24 Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
… Russell has 3 more games than Gradkowski and a .3 better QB Rating so Gradkowski needs to prove that hes progressed this year to pass him.
————————–
24,
Those numbers are seriously misleading. The majority of Gradkowski’s stats come from his rookie season. The rest up until these last 3 weeks have come in random spot duty for bad teams.
You’ve got to look at their starts this season to judge where these guys are at:
Russell: 2 TDs, 9 INTs, 118 yards passing per game, 4 yards rushing per game, 47.7 rating, 2-7 record.
Gradkowski: 6 TDs, 1 INT, 230 yards passing per game, 20 yards rushing per game, 91.2 rating, 2-1 record.
December 11th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
I wanna see my man Fargas carry the ball 30 times this Sunday.
Quit diddle-dallying around.
Just give Kamikaze the ball and let him demoralize the defense.
Doing that is Gradkowski’s best chance of success from here on.
December 11th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
S-N-S no one needs t tell me to root for Grads man I do. I want to win. If he can help us until Russell is ready I’m all for it. But I’m not going to say he’s better until I see it for myself. The Steelers are strugglng anyone can see that. They benched when all the players we needed came back. And Grads has benefitted I’m Happy for him, but don’t try to sell me a can of crap when i know what it is.
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
Priesttj- Russell will never be ready. We have to get either a Vet or draft Colt if he is available.
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective on how he’s playing, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective on how he’s playing, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective on how he’s playing, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:42 pm
I know it’s inflated and unrealistic, but just for a little perspective on how he’s playing, Gradkowski’s 3 starts project to this stat line over a 16-game season:
TDs- 32
INTs- 5
Passing yards – 3,680
Rushing yards – 320
Rating- 91.2
Wins – 11
Losses – 5
December 11th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
# 24 Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 10:51 pm
Oh…before I go completely. One more thing.
Gradkowski is 26. Russell is 24
Gradkowski has played in 25 Games. JR has played in 28 Games.
Its not like Gradkowski has that much more experience over JR. Hes young as well. Heres the kicker…
Gradkowski – Career Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
Career 25 269 505 53.3 2671 5.3 15 75 16 65.2
Russell – Career Stats
YEAR TEAM G CMP ATT PCT YDS AVG TD LNG INT RAT
Career 28 330 639 51.6 3860 6.0 17 86 21 65.5
Gradkowski – Career 65.2 QB Rating – 4th Year
Russell – Career 65.5 QB Rating – 3rd Year
Russell has 3 more games than Gradkowski and a .3 better QB Rating so Gradkowski needs to prove that hes progressed this year to pass him.
^^^^^^^^
He already has. Grads is light years more mature than Russell and Grads is harder worker and a better leader than Russell.
Plus Grads won AFC offensive player of the week recognition. Russell has not and may never achieve that.
Russell is the one who needs to prove a lot more than Grads does at this point.
December 11th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
# djohnnyg Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm
From the Shefter story on ESPN, am I to understand that if next yr. is uncapped, it is possible to dump Russell, and only be out 3 million?
^^^^^^^^
I think so….if they don’t dump him…..then the looney crazy old man better restructure down his contract in the upcoming off season.
No way an unproductive lazy a$$ like Russell should be getting paid the amount of money he is getting paid for doing NOTHING! Unreal…
December 12th, 2009 at 12:07 am
Priesttj:
Come on man – sell you what????
What am I trying to sell you? Can of WHAT crap?
I’m telling you that I totally support JaMarcus like yourself.
I frankly don’t give a rat’s ass if our starter is JaMarcus, Grad, Dakota or a freakin’ German Shephard.
If the dude/dog/blow-up doll, or whatever behind center is playing well, let’s ride em’ as long as we can.
(damn. . . .that last line reads pretty funny!)
Go Raiders.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:38 am
That’s it. Blindly support fat dumb lazy blaming-others guy and if anyone says different they’re a bigot. At least have a real argument. You’re like a broken record.
And Hollas never looked as good as Gradkowski. He just looked good after Jeff George.
December 12th, 2009 at 12:53 am
Thank you weaselbit.
December 12th, 2009 at 1:14 am
AIG:
Post #54 is a very good post.
December 12th, 2009 at 1:23 am
Priest:
Your attitude to Gradowski is crazy since we all know you’re a committed Raider.
What’s with calling everyone a scumbag
because they like what Gradwoski has done-won two out of three?
Why are you so fixated on Russell when the guy moves so slow going back in the pocket, has footwork resembling an elephant, can’t read a defense, is a lousy leader, and has real accuracy problems.
You wouldn’t want to be in the same room with Russell if he was playing darts.
December 12th, 2009 at 3:16 am
Draft Colt McCoy?
Please, please dont do that.
The pretty boy has soft written all over him.
December 12th, 2009 at 3:19 am
ATTENTION
Good job posting last night to all
Notice who is missing from the good readable threads?
December 12th, 2009 at 4:25 am
I dont think he is the next Gannon, but I dont think he is Hollas Eiither. Hollas Never through for 300 plus yars or 3 TD in the fourth quarter.
I also think it would be unfair to consider him th long term answer at QB. He has been know tto run a bt hot and cold. He did the samething in Tampa Bay. Hopefully he stays hot for the rest of ths year and they can win at least 2 of their remaing 4 games at least it will show they kept trying tell the end.
As for next year if he wants to resign with Oakland then Let him compete for the right to stay the starter rather that be JR or somebody else. Russell has all the physial tools. he just has to show he wants it on the mental side. Maybe actaully playing and staying at 265 as he is listed on the teams website would be a great start. BG may not be great but at least he shows he wants to play. As of right now JR aint showing that.
December 12th, 2009 at 5:40 am
Good Morning NATION!!!!
December 12th, 2009 at 5:41 am
Exactly—-thankx once again Chris in NY =)
******************************************
disorder.
76.Chris in NY Says:
December 11th, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Aig,
I have a similar but slightly different take on the key factors for the QB position:
1. Decision-making: This is similar to your “playbook knowledge.” It means recognizing defenses, calling audibles and most importantly recognizing open receivers and having the guts to pull the trigger and throw them the ball. JaMarcus stinks at this, a 0 out of 10. Bruce is probably a 7 out of 10 from what I’ve seen so far. Peyton Manning and Drew Brees would be a 10.
2. Accuracy: Once you make that decision, you’ve got to be precise. Receivers rarely get much separation in the NFL and DBs close quickly. The ball has to be dropped in a very tight window. JaMarcus is probably a 2 of 10 because he can do it perfectly on deep slants and crosses but is terrible at just about every other route. Bruce is probably a 6 but I think there’s room for improvement. Brees, Manning and Gannon are 10s.
3. Leadership: Self explanatory. Brady, Manning and Favre are 10s. JaMarcus a 2. Bruce an 8.
4. Mobility: Speed to pull it down and pick up big chunks is key, but also is just the pocket presence and footwork to avoid the initial rush and buy time for a receiver to get open is even more important. Tom Brady is very good at this latter aspect despite not being very fast at all. I’ve seen Bruce do both and he’s about a 9 so far in my book. Jeff Garcia, a young John Elway and Rich Gannon are all 10s in my book.
5. Arm strength: Self explanatory. Gradkowski is probably a 3 or 4. JaMarcus is a 10. So are Cutler, Favre, Marino and Elway just off the top of my head. It can be an extremely powerful tool if combined with the other above attribtues. Without those other attributes it’s pretty useless though.
Bottom line: If JaMarcus had the same decision-making, accuracy, leadership and mobility of Gradkowski to go along with his arm, we’d be talking about #2 as the next great NFL QB and discussing whether or not we’re gonna get a first-round bye in the playoffs this year.
December 12th, 2009 at 5:51 am
I am kind of suprised that anyone is defending Russell. He may be the worst quarterback I have seen in 40 years of watching pro football.
December 12th, 2009 at 6:01 am
[...] Is Gradkowski a Gannon . . . or a Hollas? – Inside the Oakland … [...]
December 12th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Well you reap what you sow,imo.I said B4 Jmac shot himself and the Org. in the foot when he held out.Multiplyed by young and very immature and set 4 life,well this is what you get.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh….but by devine intervention or just good KARMA….2010 is an un-capped year,a once in a lifetime out 4 the owners,far-sighted are they.
All excessive fat wll be cut from the Beast and there will be No scholarships on any team,imo.
Once again the Virtue of hard work and determination,like sweet creame,rise 2 the top.
Gradkowski has been very determined and has acted accordingly
Jmac shops 4 bling
The proof is in the pudding 4 ALL 2 see
December 12th, 2009 at 8:16 am
I was at that Cardinals game. Raider nation took over Sun Devil stadium that day! It was glorious. But George pulled a groin and then stayed out for almost the whole season. Because of a groin pull!!! Gut that does that doesn’t want to play.
December 12th, 2009 at 8:22 am
My ten worst QB’s in NFL history:
10. Tim Couch
9. Kelly Stouffer
8. Cade McNown 1. JaMonkie
7. David Klingler
6. Todd Blackledge
5. Quincy Carter
4. Andre Ware
3. Akili Smith
2. Ryan Leaf
December 12th, 2009 at 8:30 am
wtf happened to my post? the post where i declare victory in the dakota baby name competition. NOMAR BUSH DAKOTA
December 12th, 2009 at 8:31 am
NOMAR BUSH DAKOTA
December 12th, 2009 at 8:37 am
Bertha Bushie “where’s my gun” Dakota….
December 12th, 2009 at 8:45 am
Wassup LMN!
December 12th, 2009 at 8:48 am
Not much, but as i said in post #66 im much more happy these days about being a raider =)
December 12th, 2009 at 8:50 am
You wouldn’t want to be in the same room with Russell if he was playing darts.
——————————————————
That is hilarious!
December 12th, 2009 at 8:52 am
Have you been able to watch the games LMN?
So have you come around on Shaugnessy yet?
December 12th, 2009 at 8:54 am
Jamarcus might want to be a little more flexible with his contract talks.
Given the only $3 million he would receive if he were cut, and than that would be it, Al has all the hand and leverage to restructure.
Jamarcus’ agent is no dummy, he will encourage a restructure to Jamarcus if the Raiders force the issue.
December 12th, 2009 at 8:54 am
I frankly don’t give a rat’s ass if our starter is JaMarcus, Grad, Dakota or a freakin’ German Shephard.
If the dude/dog/blow-up doll, or whatever behind center is playing well, let’s ride em’ as long as we can.
——————————————————
LMFAO!
December 12th, 2009 at 8:56 am
not all live, but i have watched them all …but more important, the Bruce games i watched live =)
December 12th, 2009 at 8:58 am
You’re right about that. Those games except Thanksgiving were pretty fun to see. Well at least the 4th qtrs were.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:00 am
Priesttj, for such a die-hard Raider fan that we all know he is, sounds a lot like MR when it comes to Bruce.
I almost feel that people, fans supposedly, are rooting for him to fail so they can say, “HA TOLD YOU SO!!”
Makes me root even harder for him.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:04 am
Vegas,
Mornin’!
I just don’t see Al cutting Russell. I just don’t see it man. Am I overlooking an example of Al doing something like that in the past? You think he’ll watch VY, Alex Smith, and to a degree Leinart all come back from the dead and not give Russell the opportunity? You think he’ll give Lane Kiffin the satisfaction?
Just can’t see this offseason being it for Russell in Silver and Black.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I don’t think anyone is rooting for Grads to fail. That would be like rooting for the Raiders to lose.
I will say that I watch the games that Grads has started with a jaded sort of arms folded, smirk on my face, we have no chance to win mood, lol.
The Steeler game was the one game that I thought Cable and Grads did a good job from start to finish. But we still only had 6 fuggin’ pts through 3 qtrs. The Dallas game and the first 58 minutes of the Cincy game were painful to watch.
Just being honest man.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:10 am
I wish we had the luck to have Matt Stafford coming out when we drafted #1.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:15 am
LMN, wellcome back bro…from AlisGod.
Tiger is coming to your neighborhood. For a man who has a weakness for blonds, he is going straight to the source. I know you’re not in Sweden but I count all you guys a big Euro country.
tomorrow is a huge game. I wish I was there but wont be back in town til 17th. Damn.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:20 am
Jhill,
Cable was responsible for killing those drives early in the first 3 quarters. We were at their 39 and his stupid trick play brought us back to our side. that lost us 3 points there at least.
I am not sold on Matt Stafford. Being in SEC country I have watched him alot here. He reminds me of another Jeff George and Jay Cutler type. He is not Fiery enough to be a great QB. He could never win the big game for Georgia. He is much better than JR from the standpoint that he is extremely accurate along with that big arm. But it’s his leadership skills that I have never seen displayed.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:21 am
AIG… thanx
December 12th, 2009 at 9:25 am
LMN, just pls dont start praising Kitten again and get us to argue again…:)
December 12th, 2009 at 9:27 am
well…
we all know he is a genius, so no need to argue about that =)
December 12th, 2009 at 9:33 am
ask Pimp Kiffen….thats where he hires his recruiters from
December 12th, 2009 at 9:34 am
still not Netherlands…
but the COP15 is great, im making some bux on american NGO’s =)
December 12th, 2009 at 9:35 am
JHill,
Morning!!
I don’t see just outright cutting him, but I would be suprised if Al didn’t to negotiate down his salary a
little.
The only thing more legendary than Al’s fondness for big, fast players is his cheapness. If Bruce can win more games at 2 million a year, I just can’t see Al paying $10 million for a backup.
Besides, Jamarcus saying no to Al’s restructing demands would almost be showing up the old man. That never works for the player.
I just hope Jamarcus “get’s it”, shows up to camp in great shape AND spirit, restructures his contract, says all the right things and tries to win his job back in practice. Anything other than that, from both sides,will just be another disaster.
Have a good day bro, I’m off for some holiday shopping.
December 12th, 2009 at 9:37 am
Oh that’s right, you’re in Denmark right? My buddy used to serve in the army and stationed in Germany. He swore that them Euros have the best red light districts. All the flavors a man can ever wish for.
Already told me wife I am taking a European trip once she is done with med school. Road trip baby!!!
December 12th, 2009 at 9:53 am
AIG,
The SEC is the WORST football in the nation from the standpoint of teaching the fundamentals.
The WORST QBs come from there. Its all athleticism down there. The fanbases go overboard for college football and the coaches down there don’t teach a bit of real football.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:01 am
REgardless of how this season finishes….the Raiders need to bring in a veteran QB.
Chad Pennington would be my choice. It seems that the Raiders succeed with these short-armed QBs with a Napolean attitude.
Al Davis will just have to put to rest his drive for the long-ball.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:08 am
4evaRaider Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 6:08 am
Well you reap what you sow,imo.I said B4 Jmac shot himself and the Org. in the foot when he held out.Multiplyed by young and very immature and set 4 life,well this is what you get.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh….but by devine intervention or just good KARMA….2010 is an un-capped year,a once in a lifetime out 4 the owners,far-sighted are they.
All excessive fat wll be cut from the Beast and there will be No scholarships on any team,imo.
Once again the Virtue of hard work and determination,like sweet creame,rise 2 the top.
Gradkowski has been very determined and has acted accordingly
Jmac shops 4 bling
The proof is in the pudding 4 ALL 2 see
^^^^^^^^^
Exactly! It makes ZERO sense to be paying Russell the amount of money he is being paid to buy his bling and be lazy and unproductive.
The looney old man better restructure down that freakin contract if he knows whats good for him, the team and whole dysfuntional organization in general! LOL
Then again, this is the old delusional stubborn evil emperor old man we are talking about.
Logical and reasonable decision making is NOT in his vocabulary and is thrown out the freakin window! haha
The old looney brought back his #1 lapdog Hanson for cryin out loud to be part of the dysfuntional crackhead “personnel department”??
December 12th, 2009 at 10:08 am
SnB,
Pennington is damaged goods. Most retreads are. Either physically or psychologically.
I just hope that if Gradkowski finishes out the season in a serviceable manner that he isn’t given a Derek Anderson contract.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:09 am
he’d get only 3 mill if cut? Restructure or cut him then. But I’m not giving up on DMAC or Bush yet. They would tear our D up if they were on another team, we gotta learn how to use them correctly
December 12th, 2009 at 10:09 am
SnB,
The SEC is way overrated. They schedule themselves Louisana Lafeyette or appalachian state. Alabama is way overrated. They got smoked by Utah Utes last year. What you have is a bunch of overrated teams beating each other up and then the country annoints them #1. South Carolina got smoked last year in a bowl game too. Tenn is supposed to be good this year but UCLA beat them in their own home. Other than the Mannings, there havent been any QB worth a lick from the SEC.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:12 am
DKnight,
I wonder out loud how the Davis fans would react if Russell was named the starter next year?
Anyway, the best QBs the Raiders have had over the last 25 years have been two short-armed Napoleanic QBs:
Hostetler and Gannon….two journeyman that were finally got it after 10+yrs in the league.
I would go and get Pennington.
It pains me to say this because, like Davis, I too believe in the big-armed down the field QB.
But alas, the Raiders inept, stupid strategies prevents such a QB from being properly scouted, drafted and then coached up.
So go get Pennington and let him push Gradkowski so that we can win some games….maybe no Super Bowl…because short-armed QBs rarely win them….but at least get back to the playoffs again.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:13 am
morning all.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:18 am
If you’re still there LMN…..good to see you again…..and you anywhere near the trouble over there?
December 12th, 2009 at 10:19 am
The whole BCS/BullS**T Championship Series is a sham and absolutely RUINS College Football.
College Football is probably like having sex but not being able shoot.
Lousy!
December 12th, 2009 at 10:21 am
M Lonetree Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 10:08 am
SnB,
Pennington is damaged goods. Most retreads are. Either physically or psychologically.
I just hope that if Gradkowski finishes out the season in a serviceable manner that he isn’t given a Derek Anderson contract.
=======================================================
Pennington would be in his 10th year next year. So he would still have a good 3 to 5 years or more of football left.
He is considered one of the smartest QBs in the league, although physically limited.
Right now we just needs someone that can consistently complete the short and medium passes.
The vertical game needs to go on ice. Cable is running the WCO anyway and who better than one of the most accurate QB in the league.
I don’t trust Gradkowski yet without any competition. His career stats suggest problems and once there is tape on this guy in our offense things could change.
Get Pennington in here to push Gradkowski in the offseason and provide us a solid option. Hell, maybe some of that hard work will rub off on Russell….Provided that he is not cut…which he should be.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:21 am
Wassup AIG,
I’ll take your word on Stafford. I’ve watched a few Detroit games this year and he looked really accurate. Played hurt and all. But I’ve only seen a couple of games he’s played in. He looks way better than Sanchez.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Would rather keep Frye and Grads than go the Pennington route. How many shoulder surgeries has he had? Is that going to be another 10 mph off his passes?
No thanks!
December 12th, 2009 at 10:24 am
SnB offense defense specialteams Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 10:12 am
DKnight,
I wonder out loud how the Davis fans would react if Russell was named the starter next year?
Anyway, the best QBs the Raiders have had over the last 25 years have been two short-armed Napoleanic QBs:
Hostetler and Gannon….two journeyman that were finally got it after 10+yrs in the league.
I would go and get Pennington.
It pains me to say this because, like Davis, I too believe in the big-armed down the field QB.
But alas, the Raiders inept, stupid strategies prevents such a QB from being properly scouted, drafted and then coached up.
So go get Pennington and let him push Gradkowski so that we can win some games….maybe no Super Bowl…because short-armed QBs rarely win them….but at least get back to the playoffs again.
^^^^^^^^^^
Dude, there is now way Russell should be GIVEN anything from here on out. But this the crazy old man we are talking about. There is no LOGIC with him. Just bizarre weirdness!
Russell needs to show up to camp 15-20 pounds lighter and in the best shape of his life, along with restructuring down his undeserving contract to be given even a half a CHANCE to be the starter next year IMO.
Not a fan of signing Pennington. I would rather see them sign Vick for cheap money or trade for Kolb IF they can.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:25 am
It makes ZERO sense to be paying Russell the amount of money he is being paid to buy his bling and be lazy and unproductive.
The looney old man better restructure down that freakin contract if he knows whats good for him, the team and whole dysfuntional organization in general! LOL
Then again, this is the old delusional stubborn evil emperor old man we are talking about.
Logical and reasonable decision making is NOT in his vocabulary and is thrown out the freakin window! haha
The old looney brought back his #1 lapdog Hanson for cryin out loud to be part of the dysfuntional crackhead “personnel department”?? Looney!
December 12th, 2009 at 10:26 am
AIG,
My problem with the SEC is that at the end of the day athleticism is the final determining factor.
Get bigger lineman and faster receivers and your team wins. That’s why Florida, Alabama and LSU have thrived when they brought in skilled recruiters.
Elite college QBs need to go to programs that run a pro-style offense with receivers that are not dominant. That would reduce the margin of error in the qBs throws.
When you play at Florida or LSU and you’ve got Percy Harvin and Louis Murphy or Dwayne Bowe etc….you don’t have to be all that accurate or on time when your receiver beats his man 80% of the time.
And don’t get me started with those spread offenses.
BTW, what has Urban Meyer taught Tebow about actually throwing the ball?
The “And-1″ of college football…..
December 12th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Morning Jhill,
Penny is great but he gets hurt way too often. Sanchize is way overrated. He doesnt have the gift that Stafford has but I think he is a better leader than him. Only time will tell on these 2.
Oh btw, I agree with your analysis on Penny. Funny thing is Herm Edwards pointed out that whenever Penny plays the full season his team makes the playoff. However, he hardly ever plays fthe full season. I think he’s done.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:29 am
SnB,
You are 100% correct!
December 12th, 2009 at 10:31 am
jhill Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 10:23 am
Would rather keep Frye and Grads than go the Pennington route. How many shoulder surgeries has he had? Is that going to be another 10 mph off his passes?
No thanks!
=======================================================
If Pennington beats out Gradkowski in camp then it would be a great deal. I don’t think there will be demand for Pennington so its not like a big risk.
If his shoulder is healed, then he could come in here and provide a legit push to Gradkowski.
I’ve given up on the deep ball thrower. The Raiders are to schitzophrenic with the deep ball/WCO for a deep ball thrower to succeed here.
Plus Davis has no clue on how to evaluate, draft and develop a QB. This situation disappoints me greatly.
Nevertheless, I just want to see some wins. Its going to be guys like Gradkowski, Pennington, Hostetler type QBs that will get us back to average.
Russell will never work out here because I challenge his work ethic and Cable seems to type cast players.
Russell might succeed in a place where there is structure, discipline and great coaching…..but he won’t succeed here…and that’s all that matters.
Get Gradkowski, Pennington and hell throw in Frye and let them compete
December 12th, 2009 at 10:36 am
got to run. be back later boys. Sunday cannot come any faster. We need judgement day here and now.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:38 am
Didn’t we have a Pennington here at the start of the season called Garcia?
December 12th, 2009 at 10:40 am
JHill,
Al Davis should have hired Jim Fassell or Gilbride if he wanted to resurrect the deep passing game.
Davis brought in Cable who is part of the WCO tree of Walsh, Holmgren, Mora etc. They favor QBs that are accurate in the short-medium game and running these timing routes etc…
Russell needs to be in a more downfield passing attack….of course that’s after he gets himself into shape and in the video room.
Davis really has no idea what he wants in an offense and the team suffers for it.
Is it power blocking or the ZBS
Vertical offense or WCO
Possession receivers or deep threats
Power Runners or zone runner / scat backs
The offense should just dedicate itself to the WCO.
Go get the ZBS blockers (small and athletic)
Go get possession receivers (no DHB)
and start Fargas 20 carries because that’s who Cable likes
Just set a strategy and move forward. The Raiders need to recognize who they are….embrace it….and move on towards building a team to that strategy.
Some of the deep ball power folks (me included) might not like it….but if the team will just commit…maybe we can win some games
December 12th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Is it power blocking or the ZBS
Vertical offense or WCO
Possession receivers or deep threats
Power Runners or zone runner / scat backs
****************************************************
Yes
December 12th, 2009 at 10:51 am
SnB,
I don’t really care about the big armed guys anymore. I just don’t think Pennington is a risk worth taking. If not for his injuries, maybe so.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am
At this point SnB, we really need to focus on areas other than QB. We have a decent guy behind center now who is doing everything the coach wants. We have another solid vet on the bench in Frye, and a young who they are looking to develop.
QB has HARDLY been the only issue with this team. Let’s worry about solidifying the Oline and LB situation. QB, RB, and WR wil sort itself out.
December 12th, 2009 at 10:56 am
jhill Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 10:51 am
SnB,
I don’t really care about the big armed guys anymore. I just don’t think Pennington is a risk worth taking. If not for his injuries, maybe so
======================================================
They need to bring in a veteran WCO type QB next year. No way should Gradkowski just be handed the job by default. That’s a set up and Russell is not competition.
Its disappointing that Russell didn’t workout. I always envisioned the Raiders getting the next Marino or (sad to say) Philip Rivers type QB that can beat you at any given time anywhere on the field.
But Davis has “by default” chosen to run 49er ball here in Oakland. So they need to get “49er” type Qbs to run it….
December 12th, 2009 at 10:56 am
NeilB..
nopes, the trouble is way out of my hood =) and the trouble is not worth mention. its not anything like the stuff in London a few months ago =)
December 12th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Pennington is a risk worth taking. If not for his injuries, maybe so.
182.jhill Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 10:54 am
At this point SnB, we really need to focus on areas other than QB. We have a decent guy behind center now who is doing everything the coach wants. We have another solid vet on the bench in Frye, and a young who they are looking to develop.
QB has HARDLY been the only issue with this team. Let’s worry about solidifying the Oline and LB situation. QB, RB, and WR wil sort itself out.
=======================================================
I agree. But even when we talk O-Line…you have to frame that pick in the context of the philosophy of Cable. Its not going to be the traditional big OG/OT…and probably not a highly drafted pick. Its going to be another athletic guy. They won’t pick a OL high in the draft.
So we are down to MLB and DT in my opinion. I really hope Davis doesn’t spend a 1st round pick for a Nickle Back….Chris JOhnson is good enough so no need to move him…and Nnamdi is a beast on his side.
So, the question comes down to whether Davis feels a Linebacker is worth a 1st round pick….or if he feels satisfied with Kelly/Warren/Bryant…….
Don’t be surprised to see the cornerback selected in the 1st round.
Personally, I would rather see them trade the 1st round pick for another proven veteran like Seymour….
December 12th, 2009 at 11:04 am
LMN…
Good to hear,caught the news before I came here and it said there had been 500 arrests.
December 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I have no problem with a CB/KR guy in the first round. It is without question a need position with no one behind Routt on the roster. If they resgin Routt, then that would change things.
December 12th, 2009 at 11:10 am
I agree with trading the pick for a guy like Seymour, but Al wouldn’t give up this years pick for Seymour in the Pats deal. It would have to be a heck of a player we get.
December 12th, 2009 at 11:13 am
Neilb…
wow 500! well they use preemptive arrests, as they do to soccer games, but we got our first water-cannon, due to the COP15, but I hardly think it will be used =)
December 12th, 2009 at 11:16 am
# jhill Says:
December 12th, 2009 at 11:09 am
I have no problem with a CB/KR guy in the first round. It is without question a need position with no one behind Routt on the roster. If they resgin Routt, then that would change things.
____________________________________________________
i remember when some suggested DeAngelo Hall should be KR/PR, and people said it was a stupid idea when he cost us so much…
and regarding a 1st rounder doing it, I cant see the harm either, mainly because i value the position so high…
Percy Harvin is a monster weapon, I would love us to use a guy like him for KRs… I dont care about the injuries…
December 12th, 2009 at 11:17 am
LMN…
That’s what the news said.The reports looked very peaceful on tv.
You never know, do ya!! The media makes more trouble than it reports.
December 12th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Ref the KR/PR question.Why is Branch not being used ? He returned them in college,why not the pro’s ?
December 12th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Time to go….
Enjoy your Saturday everyone.
December 12th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Go Griz!
December 12th, 2009 at 11:58 am
Thanks for bringing back some bad memories Jerry. That Chargers game has to be the worst game in NFL history. Probably 25 punts then the miracle to Jett. And Hollas should have beaten Baltimore. He was so far in the end zone w/ the ball on 4th down. Ridiculous call. As I remember it, Raiders might still have gone to the playoffs if Eric Allen didn’t get hurt vs. Seattle. Definitely Gruden’s best coaching job with a big assist from Willie Shaw.