Looks like Miller is out
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, December 18th, 2009 at 10:53 am in Oakland Raiders.
Tight end Zach Miller was a spectator as the Raiders went through warmups and drills Friday, walking slowly to the field on sweats and a jersey, wearing a baseball camp.
It appears the Raiders will almost certainly be without their most reliable receiver over the last three years. Coach Tom Cable said Thursday he hadn’t given much thought to who would start in Miller’s place.
More to come . . .
CORRECTION:
In the previous blog, “McFadden strictly a singles hitter,” I wrote that there had been 277 touchdown runs and none of them belong to McFadden. Exactly why I wrote it that way I’m not sure, because the factoid is that there are 277 runs of 20 or more yards, and none of them belong to McFadden.
Tennessee’s Chris Johnson has 20 runs of 20 or more yards just this season. McFadden has four in his career _ all coming last season in Kansas City.
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December 18th, 2009 at 10:54 am
Primero.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:55 am
Repost:
Los Raiders
Meaningless?
We’ve gotten some very solid players, even recently, throught the draft. Although, yes typically our first day picks are wastes or develop into gamers on other teams.
Some players take time to develop. DMAC and DHB still have tremendous upside but they are not every-down players. They have to be used correctly, which Cable has not done.
Cable’s real meat and potatoes and wants football players who can play 60 minutes.
We need mean mofos on this team, particularly at DT, MLB, and SS. We are sorely lacking up the middle.
December 18th, 2009 at 10:58 am
Jerry
Does your role as blog host give you any editorial leeway, or are you just here to post injury reports?
December 18th, 2009 at 10:59 am
The only way to play well with what we have on offense is to scheme.
Cable just goes right at you, which is why he values guys like Fargas.
With a back like McFadden, he needs to be moved around all over the field. The guy is a mismatch waiting to happen. We all know this already.
Cable seems to, on one hand, baby the team by calling very obvious plays lacking creativity, then on the other, call plays that some of his personnel can’t handle (like DHB being on the field for 60 snaps and McFadden between the tackles 80% of the time, JaMarcus Russell throwing….um, anything).
December 18th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Jerry
Why is it that you people go after Cohan & Co with a vengance, and are sweet as sugar with Al Davis?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:00 am
Good move
December 18th, 2009 at 11:02 am
Mix in an idiotic trick play which was practiced a dozen times and then is completely shut down on game day and that, my friends, is the Cable offense.
It only works with a beastly 3-down RB, a very talented O Line and game manager QB and a possesion WR who can convert 3rd downs.
We have none of that. Unless you count Javon Walker or maybe Murphy, but we don’t see him on the Intermediate routes up the middle too often, so its impossible to say.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:04 am
# bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 10:36 am
Name me one player that Gruden drafted and developed into a good player.
^^^^^^^^^
Uhhhh…..Did Gruden draft Jano in the 1st round and did Gruden draft Porter??
I’m pretty sure we have come to the conclusion that Raider coaches don’t make the draft picks.
Our old senile delusional dumb owner/gm/head of player personnel uncle Al makes the picks. Not Gruden.
Your question should be….did Gruden turn the franchise into a winner again in spite of Al Davis?
YES….he sure did!
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
CORRECTION:
In the previous blog, “McFadden strictly a singles hitter,” I wrote that there had been 277 touchdown runs and none of them belong to McFadden. Exactly why I wrote it that way I’m not sure, because the factoid is that there are 277 runs of 20 or more yards, and none of them belong to McFadden.
Tennessee’s Chris Johnson has 20 runs of 20 or more yards just this season. McFadden has four in his career _ all coming last season in Kansas City.
__________________________________
McFadden was about to break out in that game, instead he suffered turf toe and hasn’t come close to repeating that performance since.
I suffered severe turf toe playing a pickup basketball game in college…it wasn’t completely healed for more than two years.
Plain bad luck.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
KK
A lot of that payroll is wrapped up in our last 3 # 1 picks and Aso.
The dead weight should be shown the door or brought back at a reduced salary (IE Kelly and Warren).
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Did Gruden ALSO have NO control of the draft in TB? I think not…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:06 am
Dakota, McFadden will be redeemed. Book it.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:06 am
# bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I would take Marc Trestman as our next HC 100 times out of 100 over Gruden…
^^^^^^^^^
Probably in the top 5 of STUPIDEST things said on these boards.
Watch out….you don’t want to be compared to Priesst now do you?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:07 am
LA to TheBay Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
KK
A lot of that payroll is wrapped up in our last 3 # 1 picks and Aso.
The dead weight should be shown the door or brought back at a reduced salary (IE Kelly and Warren).
——————————————
I’ll research it, but I believe the Raiders are at the top of the payroll list year in year out.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:08 am
# bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Did Gruden ALSO have NO control of the draft in TB? I think not…
^^^^^^^^^
Did Gruden also make Tampa Bay into a more complete offensive team and into a Super Bowl winner and also make his Tampa teams playoff contenders while he was there?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:08 am
I took another look at that KC game and that was what we brought him in for.
Its not that McFadden doesn’t have “it,” it’s that McFadden hasn’t showed it. It’s obvious that the double turf toe, shoulder, and knee injuries have slowed him down, so to speak.
McFadden will shut us all up, I’m sure.
I don’t have the same faith in Russell and DHB is a mystery. Both those two have the tools.
At least DHB works his @$$ off. I think it will pay off in the long run.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:09 am
“An old dog can’t change his tricks”
So true.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:09 am
bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Did Gruden ALSO have NO control of the draft in TB? I think not…
______________________________
We would be very lucky to have Gruden back in Oakland. Come on man, do you really think any other guy that we might get could be better than Gruden?
Moot point since it won’t happen, but still, you have to be insane to not want Gruden back in Oakland compared to our other options (Cable, Fassel, Gilbride)
December 18th, 2009 at 11:09 am
DKnight- how about you go jump off a bridge…
Why does my OPINION have to be the Stupidest thing on here because its not in line with YOUR OPINION.
At the end of the day you can throw your conjecture around all you want as can I and we both look like idiots for continuously rooting for the team that will not change…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Love the trick plays. Who ever drew up last year’s Jano faker vs the Chiefs was high on crack! Cable is the only football person in the US stupid enough to call it in a close game.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:12 am
KK, you’re right, they are at the top or near the top every year.
What I’m saying is, Aso will soak up a lot of dollars, as he should and he’s sticking around.
McFadden will be given leeway. He soaks up a lot of dollars. Same deal with DHB.
Russell soaks up lots of dollars and lots of gravy. No way he stays at that salary.
Other pieces of dead weight soaking up dollars should be shown the door is my guess. We started the process last year and should finish it this year.
This team is still two years from being cleaned up, IMO.
Even Gruden couldn’t do it overnight.
Ijn the piece on Gannon, remember them talking about cleaning up the dead weight?
Two 8-8 seasons followed by division championship football.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:13 am
You guys are CRUSIFYING me because of twisted comments on portions of what I said… I said Gruden is NOT the guy to turn THIS team around. IT is full of a bunch of young guys who need to be developed, Gruden does NOT have a track record of developing young talent. How do I all of the sudden become a Gruden hater/Cable, Gilbride, Fassel supporter??? I am none of these things.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:13 am
I was against Gruden coming back here when I thought Russell would be our QB. I knew Russell could not handle Gruden’s offense or his coaching style.
Now that Russell has nearly “lazied” his ass out of the NFL, I am all for Gruden and a vet QB.
I would cut off a thumb if I knew it meant Al would hire Gruden back for at least 5 years.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Good. I can’t see any possible reason to start and risk Zach Miller. Lets see what this f’in Myer kid has got. Probably just get a big dose of worthless Tony Stewart. Sure he “contributes” in the locker room and ST but SO WHAT?!
December 18th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Other pieces of dead weight soaking up dollars should be shown the door is my guess. We started the process last year (this offseason*) and should finish it this year (next offseason*).
Sad that I’m already in offseason mode in mid December.
Really since early November, but whatever.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:15 am
Oakland Coliseum should be something like this every game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKaizb91cxY&feature=related
December 18th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Bcz24,
Correct. Gruden is NOT a developer of talent. He’s a lets get vets to run the team and make me look good. Sadly, I don’t think their are any vets out there or not enough, to make a team of anymore. Once players go down hill now days they plummet it seems.
Unless your Brett frikkin Favre.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:16 am
LA to TheBay,
I don’t think this team will be cleaned up till Davis steps aside.
He just muddied the team with DHB, and I’m sure he will do it again this upcoming draft.
7 years and counting of double-digit losing.
I see no change of behavior.
The only thing in our favor is 7 straight blackouts. That’s the leverage.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Zach Miller is our best offensive player, but at 4-9, we don’t really need to risk him.
I think we are OK with Stewrat and Myers.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:16 am
Dakota,
I’ll take Gruden and Grad.
Grad drafted the kid, let him coach him too.
Grad is a perfect fit for the Gruden offense, just doesn’t have the arm that Davis wants to see.
We do have the receivers that can turn in YAC, and I must include McFadden in that group.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Gruden drafted Grad
December 18th, 2009 at 11:19 am
KK
I agree. Even as stubborn as he is, Al realizes mistakes.
Hall cut after 8 games. Gibril sent packing. Seymour brought in.
He is typically more patient with guys he drafts as opposed to FAs, but even Al knows the ship is sinking and needs plugging up.
A capable coach can win with the current roster.
Doesn’t have to be Gruden, although its who most, if not all, of us are hoping for.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:19 am
El Tato
Lol, preciate it. Grad did not draft himself, no.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:20 am
DKnight007 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:08 am
# bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:05 am
Did Gruden ALSO have NO control of the draft in TB? I think not…
^^^^^^^^^
Did Gruden also make Tampa Bay into a more complete offensive team and into a Super Bowl winner and also make his Tampa teams playoff contenders while he was there?
=====================
No. He did not.
Tony Dungy’s D won that superbowl and carried Gruden’s geezer philosophy until the wheels inevitably fell off.
The Gruden “trade” to Tampa gave away some prime draft picks that they could’ve used in the following years, but no saying Gruden would’ve score with them anyway.
Pretty sure we didnt.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:20 am
I contend that we add two new DTs and a new CB.
Most of you will be pissed if we take a CB on the first day, but I think its actually a priority this year unless theres a shutdown CB around in FA.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:21 am
O Line is a must. After that debacle vs. Washington, I say all five are expendeable even Super Mario, who is the best of the group, considering Gallery is injured.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:22 am
McFadden wide, split, slot, hell even tight. Get this kid in space for god’s sake.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:23 am
Nnamdi21- thank you for coming in and seeing my point. Finally someone who didnt just assume I am a Gruden hater and proceed to nail me to a cross…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:25 am
who cares who we draft. we have the cheapest coaching staff in the league. this sorry bunch gets outcoached & out schemed 80% of the games. id rather trade my entire draft for a decent HC
December 18th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Most of you will be pissed if we take a CB on the first day, but I think its actually a priority this year unless theres a shutdown CB around in FA.
—————————————–
I think we are going to pick a CB early in the Draft. CJ is 30 years old and Routt a FA after this season, Holland is a WR converted to CB this past September.
Last season Cable said he wanted to draft a CB and some high prospects came to Oakland to have a workout: Alphonso Smith (2nd rounder) and Sherrod Martin (2nd rounder too) but we didn’t select a CB in the entire Draft.
I see us taking a CB in the second, and is a need.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:26 am
Who’s thumb would you cut off Dakota??? =)
December 18th, 2009 at 11:28 am
Stanffor Rout sucks. he took 5 years to develop into a decent 3rd string CB.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:28 am
I’ll take volunteers 4eva.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:29 am
Anyway, OL is our biggest need, no doubt.
The problem of our run game is the OL, not only the RBs.
Chris Johnson and Adrian Peterson have the best OLs in the NFL right now. Shaun Alexander had one of the best OL in football in his impresive seasons in Seattle,…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:29 am
We need to draft an offensive tackle, a defensive tackle, and a middle linebacker.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:31 am
lmao =)
December 18th, 2009 at 11:31 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4rMWB8NJmQ
Gruden talks about the Raiders recently…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:34 am
I think MLB is bigger need than DT.
Our line is making plays with a lot of no gains, tackles for loss and short gains, but the moment the RB run 5 yards, you know they can have a TD run, and that’s because the LBs are not separating from blockers, when they run for 5 yards thats when the LB has to make a play.
If you see the replays, in every long run our LBs are either missing a tackle or with a blocker.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Hitler pissed when he finds out Russell is starting over Garbagekowski, lmao
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfAxVSIHys
December 18th, 2009 at 11:37 am
The Raiders are actually top 3 in the NFL for tackles behind the line of scrimmage. I totally agree that MLB is the #1 need… unless Suh is available. (yep im dreaming)
December 18th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Yeah we need a punishing MLB.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:40 am
Let’s offer the bears a pick for Urlacher.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Good question by the interviewer: “What happened to the Raiders?”. Finally, a set of balls by the press. So many local reporters are afraid of Al’s dog house so they would never be that candid about how bad the Raiders are. They’ll usually hint toward it by asking someone like Gruden about a certain player, like Russell, and then leaving it to them to take say something controversial. This interviewer came right out with it. He made the Raiders, and how bad they are, THE topic in an interview with a former coach. Awesome interview, even if Gruden did keep it close to the vest. BTW, I think Gruden blaming Russell proves that he’s not interested in a job here. Bashing Al’s franchise scholarship player in a t.v. interview? Consider Gruden off the list.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:41 am
Agree Tato. Totally agree!
December 18th, 2009 at 11:42 am
# Kirk Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:29 am
We need to draft an offensive tackle, a defensive tackle, and a middle linebacker.
**************************
Don’t forget we also need a starting Center & a new starting RG too.
We have to assume that we’ll lose Morrison to FA, now that Scott is doing well at WSLB & Howard is on the other side. A run stuffing MLB is still badly needed. I also think if we can find the right DT for the middle, the 3-4 should be looked at. Put Seymour and Kelley at DE in the 3-4 and we might have something.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Wont matter who we pick up in the draft or otherwise. You could have anyone at head coach and it wont make a diffrence. Until Mr. Davis retires we will lose…
We are looking at 8 in a row….
December 18th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Nnamdi21 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:20 am
“Tony Dungy’s D won that superbowl”
………
Then why didn’t Tony Dungy win a Super Bowl in Tampa?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:44 am
JB I like the idea but we still need that Nose tackle. We could possibly make a move for Shaun Rogers.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:46 am
We should play 3-4 defense with Trevor Scott rushing the passer 100% of the plays
December 18th, 2009 at 11:47 am
football is a business. Right now the raiders org is outmatched. Mr Davis is up against 31 other teams that have personnel and whole departments that do the work of what Mr. Davis does currently.
How effective can an 80 yr old man be matching wits with a whole department of people that use technology.
He is outmaned, and outmatched.
Mr. Davis needs to hire a GM, and other personel that we need, and run this org like a real business.
7 and counting…..
December 18th, 2009 at 11:48 am
Mr. Davis needs to retire, first and foremost…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:48 am
We have two third round picks and two fifth round picks right?
Hopefully we can get a starting RG and a backup guard out of those 4 picks.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:51 am
The fact is…Gruden still had to take his game through 16 games, through the playoffs, into the Superbowl and actually win it. Not even the Perfect 16-0 Patriots were able to win the Superbowl so regardless of who had a hand in the building of that Tampa Bay team, Gruden and his offense were able to compliment that existing defense and they collectively found a way to win the Superbowl and got lucky enough that the Raiders were there as well for them to finalize the deal. Its not like he got handed anything, he still had to work to get that team to the promise land.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Dungy put that team together not Gruden.So Gruden won the S/B with a team that was put together by Tony D.Everybody knows that
December 18th, 2009 at 11:54 am
Some in here claim Cable could win a SB with Manning and the Colts…but Dungy only did it once right?
Gruden won that SB…he may not have built that team, but he won them a SB.
His team was disabled with the loss of 4 high draft picks from the trade to get Gruden, so it wasn’t surprising that he wasn’t able to develop much after that.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:54 am
24,
Nnamdi 21 said a few days ago that Gruden ruined this team. I guess it’s because we were just on the cusp of winning a Super Bowl with Joe Bugel and Jeff George.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:55 am
And Callahan made it to the Superbowl with the team that Gruden built so no matter what, Gruden still made it to the Superbowl.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Not only did Gruden win a Superbowl but he did it with Brad freakin Johnson. Come on.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:56 am
4evaRaider Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:53 am
Dungy put that team together not Gruden.So Gruden won the S/B with a team that was put together by Tony D.Everybody knows that
____________________
Actually, Rich McKay put that team together, not Tony Dungy.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:56 am
4evaRaider, but Gruden did win a Super Bowl with that team. Dungy couldn’t do it. Why is that?
December 18th, 2009 at 11:57 am
Well, 24, our defense made Brad Johnson look a lot better than what he is.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:58 am
MR – Yeah…the team wasn’t much before Gruden got here and its complete crap since Gruden has been gone EIGHT years later. Not only is Al Davis suffering from the loss of Gruden but losing a good G.M. in Bruce Allen hurt him just as much. The combination of Lombardi and Al Davis has been the destruction of this team.
December 18th, 2009 at 11:59 am
So much hate in here… the fan base of the raiders is as disfunctional as the team… the only thing we all agree on is that we blow year in and year out…
December 18th, 2009 at 11:59 am
Gruden’s biggest mistake in TB was ousting McKay for Bruce Allen.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
If given another year Dungy would have,imo but 4 whatever reason he couldnt make it 2 the Championship Game.My comment was and is Gruden was not responsible 4 the players on the roster,in other words he INHERITED it.Sure hem won with that team,my comment meant ONLY he was not responsible 4 the players on roster.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:00 pm
Exactly, 24. My question still lays in the balance for Nnamdi 21: Just what did Gruden “ruin”, exactly? A dynasty that Art Shell and Mike White built?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Since its still Gruden’s fault for the current Raiders, I’m going to blame Dungy for why the Buccaneers are bad today. He left that team in shambles the same way Gruden left his team I guess. I mean think about it…Gruden leaves the Raiders, they go to the Superbowl. Dungy leaves the Bucs, they go to the Superbowl so if its still Gruden’s fault for a bad Raiders team, than its Dungy’s fault for a bad Bucs team.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
24, at least Lombardi’s coming out and dishing the dirt on Al. I give him credit for that. Even if he’s exaggerating, he’s keeping Al Davis and his accountability in the spotlight. Not too many former Raiders do that, but the number is growing, with him, Gannon and Sapp. There’ll be more. Nnamdi Asomugha’s getting fed up.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
4eva – Gruden might not have been responsible for getting every player on the Bucs but he was responsible for getting the best out of those players for that given year.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
I will agree with that 24
December 18th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
4evaRaider, how do you know Dungy would have won a Super Bowl if given another year? We’re talking about what did happen, not what would have happened, in YOUR view. So, back to factual history. Why couldn’t Tony Dungy win a Super Bowl in Tampa?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
So why couldnt he do it the next 5 years or however long it was B4 termination?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Asomugha is learning that its nice to have a big paycheck but money doesn’t cure the pain of losing.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
Because he was traded
December 18th, 2009 at 12:05 pm
not traded FIRED I mean
December 18th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
and sense we talkin facts why didnt Gruden repeat with the Bucs?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
4eva – The one thing that bothered me about what Gruden did with the Bucs was he let Lynch and Sapp go after winning the Superbowl which made no sense to me. It seems like he wanted to send a message that he was the boss but those were the leaders of your team and I think he should have found a way to keep that team together and intact for many runs to the Superbowl. I’d say, if anything, that was his downfall in Tampa but he still kept them fighting for the division almost every year and kept them competitive.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Fate is the answer
December 18th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Al stepping down is the answer.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
Dakota, I think Gruden’s biggest mistake in Tampa was that he tried too hard to keep Dungy/McKay’s defense in tact. Gruden drafted a lot for defense there, and kept Monte Kiffin on the whole way through. Monte Kiffin’s no grunt when it comes to team building, either. He has a reputation for being one of the best defensive minds in football. And, he wasn’t cheap. Grude/B. Allen did not come into Tampa and clean house. They tried to please everyone there, is what they did. I believe that if Gruden would have just went in there and built his own team, emphasizing offense, they would have been better.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Ive been watching a few highlights, lowlights if you must, of JRuss and i think i know what his problem is. He’s just playing WAY too much Madden in his free time and he thinks he will get 5 to 6 seconds in the pocket!
December 18th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
24 thye papers down here were praising Booger McFarland for his brute strength and youth.The thinking here in TB was lets get something 4 Sapp while we can,we got McFarland and we will draft another DT
December 18th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
All I know is…Gruden somehow made it work with Al Davis and they built a powerhouse. All AD had to do was continue to pay Gruden good coaching money and let him has more say about his team and things would have been fine.
AD didn’t want to give more power to Kiffin because he was still young and learning but he also didn’t want to give more power to Gruden despite turning that team into a great one which doesn’t make any sense. Regardless, AD did not want to give power to anybody else and with him at the helm over the last 8 years, he has proven that hes not very good at it.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
4eva, in the years after he won the SB in TB Gruden also won the division again and a wild card berth. How many divisions have we won since that SB, or how many playoff games have we played in?
Gruden’s teams were hurt by age, lack of 1st and second round draft picks from the Gruden trade and injuries to their star RB Williams.
I think they made a mistake in firing him…they should have just replaced Bruce Allen.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
I dont know the reason he let Lynch go
December 18th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
Someone needs to tell JRuss that playing Madden ‘09 doesnt = Studying Film.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
Star RB Williams?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I got a good hypothetical question….
If Tony D stayed in TB and Jon G stayed in Oakland who would have won that S/B,and we still would have been with out Robbins
December 18th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
The Caddy…great rookie year then the injury bug got him.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
24, I think Al Davis just basically let Gruden have alot more control than what he’s willing to give up anymore. Al would rather lose than have someone underneath him get all of the credit. And once that started happening with Gruden (2000 season), the games began. Al played games with Kiffin right from the get go. He hired Kiffin with the same thing he had in mind when he hired Gruden, and even said so when he hired him. Considering what ensued, it’s obvious Al Davis made sure from the get go that the only way it was going to work with him and Kiffin, was if Kiffin did everything his way. He basically vowed to not let Kiffin become another Gruden. We will never have a real coach here again, young or old. And we will never again see a winning season while Al Davis is remotely involved with football operations.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Alstott was the RB.Warrick Dunn had been traded to Atlanta
December 18th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
It certainly didn’t help that Turner came in as a coach and started benching Brown and Rice and pissing everybody off. The loss of Gannon was bad timing and the running of Jordan was too soft. The added players, the new coaching, the pushing out of the old veterans and Kerry Collins at the helm didn’t help. Then you add Moss and the things he was saying and it all went down hill.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
4evaRaider Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
I got a good hypothetical question….
If Tony D stayed in TB and Jon G stayed in Oakland who would have won that S/B,and we still would have been with out Robbins
__________________
Raiders, no doubt…TB just knew every play we were going to run thanks to Gruden. Without that advantage we kill them.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:16 pm
Dakota – Ah yeah.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
4eva – I honestly think the Raiders could have won that Superbowl because Gannon was great with Gruden, Gannon was not great with Gruden against him.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I also think we beat the Bucs….
I dont know if you guys out there heard it but some Bucs players were saying they already knew the plays
December 18th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
Also…I don’t think Dungy’s offense would have been as good as Gruden’s to get to the Superbowl.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
I am fairly confident that the Raiders would have beaten the Bucs. I agree 100% with Dakota on that one… They knew our plays, the knew our audibles, and they knew or weaknesses. We brought a knife to a gunfight…
December 18th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
4eva – I recall that too. Gruden knew Callahan and Gannon and he exposed them.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
The Bucaneers knew the entire Raider playbook in advance. As John Lynch said, “we saw these plays in practice.”
December 18th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
4eva, I think Tampa Bay would have won, considering that good defense usually beats good offense. But I don’t see how that supports your point that Gruden only won because Dungy built his team for him. The fact remains that Dungy could neither win or even get Tampa to the Super Bowl. Which brings me to my next point, we probably would have played Philadelphia in SB37 if Gruden was here, and we would have destroyed them. Of course, that’s my opinion. I think ‘02 was our year, and Al spoiled it by sending our HC, the HEART AND SOUL of the team, to the very team we had to play in the Super Bowl. Between that and everything that’s happened since, Al Davis has ruined whatever legacy he had of doing good. He’ll be remembered for this. Kids will be reading about him and talking about how crazy he was for trading his head coach when the team was that good.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
If Gruden stayed with the Raiders and we had won the Superbowl, could we have repeated?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Yep 24 we was DEFINATELY OUT-COACHED
December 18th, 2009 at 12:25 pm
The Robbins factor was just the icing on the cake. Protecting Gannon with Robbins in the middle vs. Treu was like day and night.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Tuck rule season. Would we had won the SB?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
I would be playing a lot of Madden 10 if I was Russell too… He’s a STUD in that game. LOL. I consistantly smoke people with the Raiders. Oh and DHB is the best receiver in the NFL there too… just sayin. LMAO. DMac still fumbles way to much though
December 18th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Very intuitive 24….that was my next question lol!!!!
That would be the 64,000 dollar question.Some in here,myself included,think Gruden let us old,with no thought of the future.Same as TB.I know Rich McKay had Dungy’s input,I dont know how much tho.And how much input did Gruden have in Oakland in the draft?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
We couldn’t overcome this disadvantage:
“The Bucs were so well prepared for one Raiders play that safety John Lynch called it before it happened. The result was Dexter Jackson’s second interception of the game. “I was in the slot with (Jerry) Porter one-on-one, so I told Dexter cover me, and he did,” Lynch said. “I ended up coming off on the smash, but Dexter got over there.”
The Raiders’ formation and their situation tipped Lynch, who had seen the exact same play from the exact same formation in a similar situation in practice earlier in the week. “We were so well prepared today,” Lynch said. “It’s uncanny how the plays we ran in practice showed up, same formation, same motion.”
The Bucs knew Rich Gannon as well as they possibly could know a quarterback they hadn’t faced in years. For that, they can thank Gruden, who took the highly unusual step of playing the role of Gannon on the scout team during Thursday’s practice. As the pool reporter for the Bucs, I witnessed this performance, but Gruden asked that I not write about it until after the Super Bowl. Then he said, “What did you think? How did I look?” Asked who practiced well, he said, “I can’t talk about it, but I had a hell of a day today.”
As it turned out, Gruden played Gannon better than Gannon, the player whose career he resurrected when he brought him to Oakland. Gruden audibled repeatedly on most plays. Every one of his passes was catchable, and the only two incompletions were drops. “I think that was because we were laughing so hard,” Lynch said.
It was the highlight of the week for the Bucs, who responded to the end of Gruden’s drive with a round of applause. Said Lynch, “We had a lot of fun with it, but we also got a lot done out of it. One of the things he said is Rich hates bad plays, and he likes to (audible) up to three times to get out of them, whereas some quarterbacks you’re lucky to get one audible. He tried to simulate that. I think it was probably the highlight of his career.”
Gruden, in his imitation of Gannon, also was pump-faking as if he were being swarmed by bees. This is something the Bucs talked about in meetings, and they weren’t overly concerned about Gannon’s pump fakes. During the game, the Bucs dropped to spots on the field and didn’t react to the fakes. The Bucs knew their pass rush wouldn’t give Gannon much time to pump. Tampa Bay sacked Gannon five times.”
December 18th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
DMAC, even though the Tuck game was obviously ours, I don’t think ‘01 was our year. Our defense was just too soft and gave up too many yards. In ‘02 we bring in Sam Adams, Rod Woodson, and Bill Romanowski. Light’s f’n out. That was our year. When you have a good team already then you hit the jackpot in the FA sweepstakes, it’s your year. We had everything…but our head coach!
December 18th, 2009 at 12:28 pm
Mmm the one thing about the Gruden Era Raiders that I am sure most of you will agree with… our offense was so good that it made our defense look good. I personally dont think that we could have kept up with the Rams.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 11:59 am
So much hate in here… the fan base of the raiders is as disfunctional as the team… the only thing we all agree on is that we blow year in and year out…
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I agree with that!
December 18th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
MR thats another thing.I’m just an arm-chair QB but I could see the Bucs being good 4 a long time after they lost the Championship Game vs. Rams.I mean they WAS CONTENDERS,4 years 2 come prolly.As soon as Big Al traded Gruden to TB,I thought why-o-why would he let him go there????
December 18th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Whoa… did I just agree with RMR? Scary
December 18th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
DMAC Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:26 pm
Tuck rule season. Would we had won the SB?
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We would have had to play the Steelers after the Pats right?
Who knows…and I don’t know that we could have beaten the Rams.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
4eva – If we would have kept Gruden, we wouldn’t have lost our 2 1st round and 2 2nd round picks and that could have helped in building our team for the future. Also, I know Tuiasosopo didn’t work under different coaches but who knows, maybe being groomed under Gruden at the time would have allowed him to be our next great QB but circumstances changed that greatly. Do you remember Scott Dreisbach before Gannon? I think Gruden knew talent and would have found it.
Also…would we have still traded for Moss? I’m not saying that Moss was a good idea but Moss under Gruden could have worked out much better.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Moss would have been lost in a Gruden offensive scheme… Moss is ONLY good on the long ball, cant run routes to save his life.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Dakota….
Word on the street here is, the Lakers and Gasol are “close” to agreeing on a 3yr. contract extension, through 2010-11 season…
December 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
4eva – If we would have kept Gruden, we wouldn’t have lost our 2 1st round and 2 2nd round picks and that could have helped in building our team for the future.
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What? You mean we would not have gotten those pick and wasted them right?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
909, I saw that…great! As long as they keep Bynum and Kobe too lol.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Dakota – Yeah…it would have been the Steelers.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
I only remember the name Driesbach not what he did,must not have been to much I guess =)
December 18th, 2009 at 12:35 pm
Jerry
Do you have the guts to ask Al Davis, General Manager of the Oakland Raiders, how it is he has the highest payroll in the league, and continue to put up numbers like the last 7 years?
December 18th, 2009 at 12:36 pm
# bcz24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Whoa… did I just agree with RMR? Scary
…………..
All you have to do is open your mind, and stop believing everything you hear from the Raiders, and I start to make sense!
December 18th, 2009 at 12:37 pm
4eva – Well…Scott Dreisbach was only a pre-season stud so it may not have been much but that young guy was playing great but he broke his leg in the pre-season I believe and he came back the next season looking awesome again and he broke something else and was out for another season and Gruden gave up on him I think but anyway…not that important I guess.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
In ALL of those Great Raider Teams of the past. They pounded the rock. POUNDED! Converted 3rd downs with Freddy B.
THEN they threw the long ball.
Al Davis has become a caricture of himself, with that vertical obsession nonsense.
You gotta set that stuff up, Davis!!!!
December 18th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Kell, no, Jerry doesn’t have the guts to ask him that. Jerry would probably lose his job if he asked him that. But check out Dakota’s link up there, where an interviewer askes Gruden, “What happened to the Raiders after you left?”. There are some journalists with balls.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
Everyone knows that Bruce Allen was hired by the Redskins right? I thought for sure that Gruden would end up there but they’re trying to get Shanahan I guess because him and Snyder know each other from back in the day or something.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
But MR that was just my opinion also,maybe Dungy could NOT have one it all if he stayed.But that Bucs defense was still in tact.I think they lost to the Rams 11-6.Didnt give up a touch-down….but the O allowed a safety and auto-matica Grmatica kicked 3 FG’s
December 18th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
I dont buy the stuff they pump out, and I have been complaining about Al Davis and his out of touch moves since the early ’90s, after hearing my father complain about it through most of the ’80s. I still find it rare that I agree with something you said so closely that we almost said the exact same thing.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
We’re splitting hairs now, 4eva. And it’s starting to get boring, frankly. You’re right from your end and I’m right from mine. Dungy and Gruden are both great coaches.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Man it was hell living here in TB after that S/B loss…but my friends and others realise what an advantage Gruden was for them and at least they admitted it
December 18th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
Yep
Great coaches BOTH
December 18th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I can’t believe I was sitting in the house of a Bucs fan during that Superbowl. I think I honestly wanted to cry and I barely cry when someone dies. Man…It was like having your heart ripped out. I think I left in the middle of the 3rd quarter because I couldn’t take it anymore.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:49 pm
lol
December 18th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
4eva, I’ll see your misery of having to be in TB after the SB loss and raise you my misery of being in San Diego one week after the game. There were still all kinds of fliers and ads blowing around on the sidewalks. I drove by that stadium a few times. It’s like I could hear the crowd and see Dexter Jackson running back another pick.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Man that sucks too.we all must’ve been in hell
December 18th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
There were reminders all over town. I was in old town San Diego and every single light pole still had fliers to some SB bash that some bar threw, with both the TB and Raider helmets on it.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Good thing SD’s full of bars, strip clubs, and liquor stores. I managed to forget about it.
December 18th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
I had just injured my back a few days before that game. I made it over to the local dive to watch it. I was in so much pain the alcohol wasn’t doing a damn thing for the mental anguish that game put me in.
Also had a real bad feeling when I heard Robbins went awol, on all the pre-game shows that morning…..
December 18th, 2009 at 1:02 pm
come to think of it we still are
December 18th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
One of my best friend, from Jersey, went to that SB. He called me while having lunch with Robbins, Saturday. He was thrilled, said Robbins was great……….
December 18th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
24 Says:
December 18th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I can’t believe I was sitting in the house of a Bucs fan during that Superbowl. I think I honestly wanted to cry and I barely cry when someone dies. Man…It was like having your heart ripped out. I think I left in the middle of the 3rd quarter because I couldn’t take it anymore.
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24,
I watched that SB at a VFW in Omaha, NE, and I had a 1.5 hour drive home…the thought of taking my seatbelt off and slamming into a light pole at 90 mph actually crossed my mind…
…first and only suicidal thought I have ever had…
December 18th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
New Post!