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The first-round myth

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Sunday, March 21st, 2010 at 9:16 pm in Oakland Raiders.

The company line coming from the Raiders trade for linebacker Kamerion Wimbley was that it added a fourth first-round draft pick to their defense.

When they made the trade public, that fact was stressed to every media member because, well, I can only assume, that was by decree of Al Davis.

Davis loves talent. Big bodies, the fastest 40-yard dash times. Imposing physiques. He believed in a team looking good “coming off the bus” decades ago and he believes it still.

First-round draft picks look good coming off the bus, regardless of which team was doing the picking. So Davis has firmly believed in not only his own first-round picks, but those of other teams, signing them up whenever possible after having washed out elsewhere.

He’s had some successes in this regard. Jim Plunkett and John Matuszak come to mind immediately but there are others.

So it wasn’t at all surprising when Wimbley was talked up for being the No. 13 overall pick in the 2006 draft. He joined Michael Huff (No. 7, 2006), Nnamdi Asomugha (No. 31, 2003) and Richard Seymour, (No. 6, 2001 ) as first-round picks on the Raiders defense. They failed to mention, of course, that Gerard Warren was the No. 3 overall pick in 2001 _ three spots head of Seymour _ and that he was let go rather than forking over a roster bonus.

If the Raiders are imposing because of having four picks in the first round, how good would they be with eight?

It happened once, with none of the players being over 32 years of age.

That same year, the Raiders had 10 offensive players who had been first-round picks none over the age of 31.

That’s 18 players on a 53-man roster who were picked in the first round, and if Elias or ESPN or anyone else with a computer has come up with more on a single team, I’d love to hear about it.

NFL Films would still be rhapsodizing over the the abundance of talent had it not been for one thing _ the 1997 Raiders were 4-12 under Joe Bugel. On defense, the Raiders finished last in the NFL in rushing yardage allowed, and last in passing yardage allowed _ which when you think about it is one of the most remarkable defensive statistics in league history given a team’s inclination to keep running when the run is going well.

If only to serve as a reminder that claiming first-round draft picks doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things, here’s a roll call of the 1997 Raiders and their first-round draft picks, including their age and overall selection:

Defense

S Eric Turner, 29, 3rd in 1991 by Cleveland
DT Russell Maryland, 28, 1st, 1991 by Dallas
DT Chester McGlockton, 28, 16th, 1992 by Raiders
DT-DE Darrell Russell, 21, 2nd, 1997 by Raiders
DE Anthony Smith, 30, 11th, 1990 by Raiders
DE Aundray Bruce, 31, 1st, 1998 by Atlanta
CB Terry McDaniel, 32, 9th, 1988 by Raiders
LB Rob Fredrickson, 26, 22nd, 1994 by Raiders

Offense

WR Desmond Howard, 27, 4th, 1992 by Washington
WR Tim Brown, 31, 6th, 1988 by Raiders
RB Harvey Williams, 30, 21st, 1991, by Kansas City
QB Jeff George, 30, 1st, 1990, by Indianapolis
RB Napoleon Kaufman, 24, 18th, 1995 by Raiders
T Lincoln Kennedy, 26, 9th, 1993 by Atlanta
QB David Klingler, 28, 6th, 1992 by Cincinnati
T Pat Harlow, 28, 11th, 1991 by New England
G Lester Holmes, 28, 19th, 1993 by Philadelphia
TE Ricky Dudley, 25, 9th, 1996 by Raiders

For what it’s worth eight of those players were gone right after the 1998 season or not long after it started _ George, Bruce, Fredkrickson, Holmes, Klingler, McDaniel, McGlockton and Smith.

In their place arrived a pair of first-round draftees _ Charles Woodson and Mo Collins _ while a third, defensive tackle Leon Bender, died of an epileptic seizure before training cap. Derek Brown, a former first-round pick of the New York Giants (14th overall in 1992) signed as a free agent.

Key roles in free agency were filled by undrafted defensive end James Harris, linebacker Richard Harvey, an 11th round pick, and Anthony Newman, a former second round pick. Eric Allen, a former fourth-round pick, came from New Orleans by trade.

Whether by plan or by accident, the Raiders, with Jon Gruden as coach and Bruce Allen as senior assistant, appeared to be selling Davis on the notion of filling roster spots by skill set compatible to systems of football rather than a first-round prototype.

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  • 30 year raider

    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    The franchise also doesn’t instill a culture of discipline and accoutability.

    That’s why players go out and party before a preseason game.

    No culture, no chemistry, no coaching authority.

    Drafting the rawest of raw skilled players and putting them in an environment of lax standards, substandard coaching and palace intrigue.

    That’s why they don’t win

  • NorthernD

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    ==================================
    Would that be a government job?
    Or private industry?

  • PassTheCheetos

    this blogs more interesting when people talk crap.

  • http://atm Raider O

    Fire the Monkey!

  • 30 year raider

    # NorthernD Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:56 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    ==================================
    Would that be a government job?
    Or private industry?
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””’
    i guess youve heard that saying ” its good enough for government work”

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    NorthernD Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:54 pm
    SnB,
    If they can’t develop talent, then they have to draft players who are self motivated and driven to succeed.
    Instead of pure physical specimens like DHB, they should select players who have a higher personal drive.
    Rolando McLain seems to fit that bill in this year’s draft.
    ======================================================
    Exactly…but that’s not what Al Davis does. He drafts these uber skill position players and just tosses them out there with little coaching and a substandard scheme.

    Davis should just draft limeman….specifically, guards and defensive tackles…..in the 1st round and draft his heroes in later rounds.

    Probably the reason the mid to late round guys do well is because those kids are very hungry.

    You are Trevor Scott drafted in the 6th round. You have to be self-motivated because you have no money yet plus the coaches have no pressure to put you on the field before you are ready.

    If you are DHB, JaDavis, DMAC, Gallery….you get the big money and you are forced into the lineup, even in positions you don’t play….hence you struggle

  • 30 year raider

    # Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:00 pm

    Fire the Monkey!
    [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

    which monkey?????

  • Mistabr0wn

    Im guessing either Russell or Cable.

    or both

  • http://atm Raider O

    All Of Them!!

    LMAO

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    Mistabrown, Raider O,

    following politics is pointless.

  • http://atm Raider O

    Al Too!

  • 30 year raider

    al, when he fired kiff for cause said” jamarcus will be a great quarterback get over it!” LMAO

  • http://www.car.org KoolKell

    SnB

    #602, well said. That’s just the size of it. That can’t change until Al Davis steps aside.

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    So Davis drafts all this raw talent and then surrounds them with substandard coaching….or multiple coaches with different philosophies on coaching.

    Yet Davis can’t realize that guys like Brady, Manning or the Vikings D-Line play together under the same system/coaches for many multiples of years.

    So far away from mediocre are the Raiders

  • RaiderDebo

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    1st of all, we’re not paying him sht. The Oakland Raiders are! Second of all, if I’m the boss and I don’t give my employees the tools they need to be successful, no way am I going to fire them. Especially if I’ve invested $40 million. JR gets a mulligan.

  • http://www.nataliegulbis.com Richochet

    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:35 pm

    Again, why do you bother with this playbook BS? I think JR knows 100% of the playbook today. How the hell do you know he doesn’t? Tell you this much. If we go into the season starting two rookie receivers and the same OL, it won’t matter how much of the playbook anyone knows.
    ======================================
    LMAO..you ‘THINK’??? JR is going INTO his 4th year…and you can’t even state you KNOW or are POSITIVE that JaDuhhhh knows the whole playbook??

    You stupidly defend JR, when after 3 FULL YEARS no one’s even sure if he knows what ALL OTHER FOOTBALL PLAYERS ARE REQUIRED TO LEARN DURING TRAINING CAMP??

    Let me guess…you think “JR is a bonified NFL qb” don’t you?

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    Kell,

    Yeah, I wonder what JaDavis looks like under the leadership of a guy like Belichick or Tomlin….maybe a guy like Payton….

    Strong head coaches that are clearly in charge. Do you think the peer pressure of having to deal with a Ray Lewis would encourage a player to show up in shape…..

    The Raiders are built like a fantasy football team or a team on the Madden Video Game. Just throw them out there and watch em play.

  • http://atm Raider O

    SnB,

    It is Pointless, and I’m sick of it!! Give me a free Market, no govt, no social responsibility, and let us compete!

  • 30 year raider

    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    1st of all, we’re not paying him sht. The Oakland Raiders are! Second of all, if I’m the boss and I don’t give my employees the tools they need to be successful, no way am I going to fire them. Especially if I’ve invested $40 million. JR gets a mulligan.
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    i bought a shirt to wear at the thanksgiving day game!!!! that went towards that fat – fukers pay check!!! so in essence i did pay part of jajabba salary!!!

  • http://atm Raider O

    KK,

    I Would like to know your opinion on insurance reform, if you are interested.

  • 30 year raider

    anyone who knows anything about football anyone that has a clue about talent knows that JaBIGMAC has no desire to do anything but collect a paycheck every 2 weeks and eat fried catfish fried shrimp and fried crawdads every day for breakfast lunch and diner.

  • http://atm Raider O

    I still think JR can be a good QB in the NFL, if he improves his work ethic.

  • RaiderDebo

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    1st of all, we’re not paying him sht. The Oakland Raiders are! Second of all, if I’m the boss and I don’t give my employees the tools they need to be successful, no way am I going to fire them. Especially if I’ve invested $40 million. JR gets a mulligan.
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    i bought a shirt to wear at the thanksgiving day game!!!! that went towards that fat – fukers pay check!!! so in essence i did pay part of jajabba salary!!!
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    Your choice. Nobody put a gun to your head and said buy a shirt. Keep your money in your pocket next time. By the way, shtty game that day, huh? There’s Grads playing great with “the same supporting cast as JR”. Lol!

  • priesttj

    Jerry your theory might be great except for one issue of which you have no freakin’ clue. Neither Bruce Allen nor Jon Gruden are good talent evaluators.

    The truth is that team was poisoned from the inside out by Chester and some others who just didn’t want to perform for a variety of reason. No one was closer to that team than I was. They argued more then they played. Chester wanted more money other wanted playing time. And the truth be told they crapped all over Bugles head after begging Big Al to hire him. That’s why Mr Davis destroyed that roster and got rid of the cancers.

    Bruce Allen has never been and will never be a great personnel guy he is strictly an administrator. Again you prove you just have no freakin’ idea what the hell you’re talking about which is why the people in here are just clones of your ignorance and lack of football intelligence.

    Jerry you’ve proven you simply don’t knw the Raiders you don’t know MR Davis and you barely know the fans. You’re an idiot…………..period

  • RaiderDebo

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:21 pm
    anyone who knows anything about football anyone that has a clue about talent knows that JaBIGMAC has no desire to do anything but collect a paycheck every 2 weeks and eat fried catfish fried shrimp and fried crawdads every day for breakfast lunch and diner.
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    One thing is for sure. You don’t know sht about what his motivation is or what the guy eats. That is unless you’re in his inner circle. Are you?

  • Mistabr0wn

    tj, we believe your an idiot as well.

  • priesttj

    Raider O

    It’s not if he improves his work ethic has improved greatly and he’s starting get over the hump of his development. If he stays healthy you will see a completely different player from this point on………..period

  • 30 year raider

    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    1st of all, we’re not paying him sht. The Oakland Raiders are! Second of all, if I’m the boss and I don’t give my employees the tools they need to be successful, no way am I going to fire them. Especially if I’ve invested $40 million. JR gets a mulligan.
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    i bought a shirt to wear at the thanksgiving day game!!!! that went towards that fat – fukers pay check!!! so in essence i did pay part of jajabba salary!!!
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    our choice. Nobody put a gun to your head and said buy a shirt. Keep your money in your pocket next time. By the way, shtty game that day, huh? There’s Grads playing great with “the same supporting cast as JR”. Lol!
    \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

    Grads wasnt playn defense debo!!! there were about 5 or 6 plays in that game that went at least 40 yards. all up the gut too!!!

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    Priesttj,

    Everything that Al Davis does does not glimmer like gold.

    You always make it sound like things HAPPEN TO Davis as opposed to Davis making things happen.

    He put that 1997 roster together. He did that. Davis has always undervalued chemistry and all that…so is it a surprise that the players “crapped all over Bugel’s head” as you put it….or were in it for the money.

    Davis has made so many serious mistakes over the last 8 years as has been pointed out repeatedly by bloggers and media alike.

    What people want to see is Davis make good decisions that move the team forward…and yes, we know he’s trying…but a lot of people try that fail…unfortunately for us, but not him, he has 100% authority to do what he wishes.

    Let’s hope he makes better decisions like stripping Cable of playcalling and hiring Jackson…let’s start with drafting football players ready to play in the 1st round

  • 30 year raider

    # Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    I still think JR can be a good QB in the NFL, if he improves his work ethic.
    ######################################################
    work ethic???? wow you actually think he knows what those 2 words mean??? LMAO wow im gonna fire you raider o if you ever say that again you lil monkey

  • http://www.nataliegulbis.com Richochet

    LMAO..you can always count on TJ for a nightly “head gasket” blowing.
    TJ…you’ll excuse most if you’re just viewed as the village idiot, won’t you?
    Dude…YOU STATED YOU KNEW ALL ALONG JR WAS JUICED UP..that you had your “boys” following him, and reporting back to you that he WAS, IN FACT, JUICED UP..
    Except it was a joke…all made up….YET YOU STILL RAN THE “oh, hey, I knew it all along”.

    No one believes you because you’re basically a fool, TJ.

  • priesttj

    SnB,

    You just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. He struggled his second year of starting a lot of QB’s do the kids entirs career is ahead of him. He’s made several mistakes which is normal. Now he needs to bring his game to the next level. So we’ll see…

  • RaiderDebo

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:27 pm
    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    1st of all, we’re not paying him sht. The Oakland Raiders are! Second of all, if I’m the boss and I don’t give my employees the tools they need to be successful, no way am I going to fire them. Especially if I’ve invested $40 million. JR gets a mulligan.
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    i bought a shirt to wear at the thanksgiving day game!!!! that went towards that fat – fukers pay check!!! so in essence i did pay part of jajabba salary!!!
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    our choice. Nobody put a gun to your head and said buy a shirt. Keep your money in your pocket next time. By the way, shtty game that day, huh? There’s Grads playing great with “the same supporting cast as JR”. Lol!
    \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

    Grads wasnt playn defense debo!!! there were about 5 or 6 plays in that game that went at least 40 yards. all up the gut too!!!
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    Are you fcking kidding me??? You’re giving Grads a pass because of the defense???? What a joke! So the defense played lights out in all of JR’s starts?? To be honest with you, other than some big plays the defense played pretty well on Thanksgiving. We only gave up 24 points. How the hell were we supposed to win when we scored SEVEN points??? You have no clue what your talking about. Just admit you hate Russell and let’s be done with it already. LOL!!

  • NorthernD

    Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm
    I still think JR can be a good QB in the NFL, if he improves his work ethic.
    ===============================
    That’s the problem.
    Work ethic is something that is acquired over a lifetime. It is not something that can be switched on or off. JaMarcus would have an easier time defeating depression or a brain tumour than he would developing a strong work ethic.
    It is a personality trait rather than a state of mind.

    There’s no quick motivational trick for JaMarcus to change his mindset around. No Tony Robbins speech that will do it.
    At best, he must face a life changing event that will force to re-examine his life and his choices. But I doubt that will happen.

  • priesttj

    I was hoping Toby Gerhardt would go underrated until the draft but he’s rizing now unfortunately. I was hoping we could steal him in the 3rd.

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 pm
    SnB,

    It is Pointless, and I’m sick of it!! Give me a free Market, no govt, no social responsibility, and let us compete!
    =====================================================
    Raider O,

    The great thing about having 180+ nations..is that there is always somewhere that is trying a different model of gov’t. I think the scenario you painted would be akin to a sub-saharan African country where there is no govenment, every man, women and sadly child for themselves and ruthless competition (don’t like a rival…simply kill him).

    Then again, you have the nanny states of Western Europe with high taxes and no growth and the Capitalist Dictatorship of China.

    Examples abound….I just hope our so-called leaders take that into consideration whn they make their decisons.

  • 30 year raider

    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:27 pm
    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:16 pm
    # RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:11 pm

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:55 pm
    DEBO im a 30 year raider… i mean why find a new team now??? i dont know another team i only know silver and black bro thats it!!! we are paying this moron alot of money… he is not producing!! if you were the boss and someone does not produce at their job after 3 years what would you do????
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    1st of all, we’re not paying him sht. The Oakland Raiders are! Second of all, if I’m the boss and I don’t give my employees the tools they need to be successful, no way am I going to fire them. Especially if I’ve invested $40 million. JR gets a mulligan.
    ”””””””””””””””””””””””””””

    i bought a shirt to wear at the thanksgiving day game!!!! that went towards that fat – fukers pay check!!! so in essence i did pay part of jajabba salary!!!
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    our choice. Nobody put a gun to your head and said buy a shirt. Keep your money in your pocket next time. By the way, shtty game that day, huh? There’s Grads playing great with “the same supporting cast as JR”. Lol!
    \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

    Grads wasnt playn defense debo!!! there were about 5 or 6 plays in that game that went at least 40 yards. all up the gut too!!!
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    Are you fcking kidding me??? You’re giving Grads a pass because of the defense???? What a joke! So the defense played lights out in all of JR’s starts?? To be honest with you, other than some big plays the defense played pretty well on Thanksgiving. We only gave up 24 points. How the hell were we supposed to win when we scored SEVEN points??? You have no clue what your talking about. Just admit you hate Russell and let’s be done with it already. LOL!!
    ######################################################

    your right i hate that fat fuk!!!

  • NorthernD

    SnB offense defense specialteams Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:37 pm
    Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:14 pm
    SnB,

    It is Pointless, and I’m sick of it!! Give me a free Market, no govt, no social responsibility, and let us compete!
    =====================================================
    Raider O,

    The great thing about having 180+ nations..is that there is always somewhere that is trying a different model of gov’t. I think the scenario you painted would be akin to a sub-saharan African country where there is no govenment, every man, women and sadly child for themselves and ruthless competition (don’t like a rival…simply kill him).

    Then again, you have the nanny states of Western Europe with high taxes and no growth and the Capitalist Dictatorship of China.

    Examples abound….I just hope our so-called leaders take that into consideration whn they make their decisons.
    ========================================
    How about a limited democracy where everyone must pass a written test in order to vote. And if they fail, they get an electrical shock.
    I’d go for that.

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    priesttj Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:33 pm
    SnB,

    You just don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. He struggled his second year of starting a lot of QB’s do the kids entirs career is ahead of him. He’s made several mistakes which is normal. Now he needs to bring his game to the next level. So we’ll see…
    =======================================================
    Perhaps I don’t know what I am talking about. I mean, this 8 year stretch is just normal operating procedure….whatever boss.

    Look, no one has a problem with Russell struggling…most young QBs struggle. MOST OF US REALIZE THAT.

    But people don’t like hearing that a QB isn’t putting in the work, not showing up in shape and all that.

    But maybe that’s normal too. Showing up out of shape, not mastering the playbook etc….

    I just want to win. I could care less about Al Davis

  • 30 year raider

    # NorthernD Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm
    I still think JR can be a good QB in the NFL, if he improves his work ethic.
    ===============================
    That’s the problem.
    Work ethic is something that is acquired over a lifetime. It is not something that can be switched on or off. JaMarcus would have an easier time defeating depression or a brain tumour than he would developing a strong work ethic.
    It is a personality trait rather than a state of mind.

    There’s no quick motivational trick for JaMarcus to change his mindset around. No Tony Robbins speech that will do it.
    At best, he must face a life changing event that will force to re-examine his life and his choices. But I doubt that will happen.
    —————————————————-
    you put that so elloquintly!! lol

  • http://atm Raider O

    BHP,

    I hope you are right.

  • priesttj

    SnB,

    I know he put that roster together and every roster that’s been put together was done by him. I was ripping Jerry for saying Gruden and Allen came and changed things when I know better. Because I was there, Chester MCGlockton is my cousin and I sepnt a lot of time with him and Tim Brown I used to sit in their Sky box. And go to post game meals with them.

    I remem ber when all the players went up to Mr Davis begging him to hire Joe Bugle when he did the flat quit on him. There was a ton of talent but they wouldn’t play together. Draft status was immaterial they were a team of quitters…………..period

  • PassTheCheetos

    lets look at it this way if jr never makes it as a qb he could have a helluva career as a sumo wrestler

  • NorthernD

    30 year raider Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:42 pm
    # NorthernD Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:35 pm

    Raider O Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:22 pm
    I still think JR can be a good QB in the NFL, if he improves his work ethic.
    ===============================
    That’s the problem.
    Work ethic is something that is acquired over a lifetime. It is not something that can be switched on or off. JaMarcus would have an easier time defeating depression or a brain tumour than he would developing a strong work ethic.
    It is a personality trait rather than a state of mind.

    There’s no quick motivational trick for JaMarcus to change his mindset around. No Tony Robbins speech that will do it.
    At best, he must face a life changing event that will force to re-examine his life and his choices. But I doubt that will happen.
    —————————————————-
    you put that so elloquintly!! lol
    =====================================
    Just a different way of calling him a fat lazy f*ck.

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    Northern D,

    Any democracy is only as good as the citizens in it. If the citizens are educated and engaged and understand the issues and appreciate real debate…it can flourish.

    If people don’t think and disagreements exist just to disagree…its a horribly inefficient system.

  • SnB offense defense specialteams

    Please, please stop with the calls for Bruce Gradkowski.

    What happens when the film study catches up to him like it has everywhere else he’s been? then we are stuck

    Its Russell or Bust folks. You have to hope Russell gets it.

    Guys like Gradkowski get you 6 or 7 wins max…like a Jon Kitna or Shaun King…

  • http://atm Raider O

    LMAO NorthernD

  • DKnight007

    RaiderDebo Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:50 pm
    DKnight007 Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 9:46 pm
    No more free passes and positive assumptions Debo, until Juggs Russell PROVES us wrong!

    That’s just the way it has to be.
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    For you, not for me. I’m taking all the circumstances into account. There isn’t a QB in the the league that can work miracles.

    ^^^^^^^^
    What circumstances??

    Wow…your the type of person that gives free passes huh?

    Damn, I hope your not a coach or something. If you were a coach of my kids baseball, football, or basketball teams….I would try like heck to get my kid off that team.

    Al Davis loves giving free passes and that is one of the MANY reasons why the Raiders have sucked for almost a decade.

    NO MORE FREE PASSES FOR JUGGS over here!

  • RaiderDebo

    SnB offense defense specialteams Says:
    March 22nd, 2010 at 10:49 pm
    Please, please stop with the calls for Bruce Gradkowski.

    What happens when the film study catches up to him like it has everywhere else he’s been? then we are stuck

    Its Russell or Bust folks. You have to hope Russell gets it.

    Guys like Gradkowski get you 6 or 7 wins max…like a Jon Kitna or Shaun King…
    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    Like Kitna or King? Sht man, don’t give him that much credit. I wouldn’t even put him on the same level as Donald Hollas at this point.