Raiders’ 2007 loss to Colts instructive
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, December 24th, 2010 at 3:37 pm in Oakland Raiders.
Three years ago, the Indiananpolis Colts were much better than they are now and the Raiders were considerably worse.
And they escaped with a 21-14 win against a punchless Raiders team en route to a 13-3 finish and championship in the AFC South.
Oakland would go on to lose its last two games as well and finish 5-11.
The last meeting between the two teams has no effect on Sunday’s game at the Coliseum except to remember that that the Colts are a team built for indoors and they’ll be playing a team that looked pretty fast on a soggy field a week ago.
“Offensively we weren’t putting up any points compared to what we’re doing now, and defensively we were able to do what we do best and just press the guys and kind of get up and give them no room,” Asomugha said Friday. “We played them well until that last drive wen they went down and scored.
“It was a lot closer than a lot of people thought, them being a playoff team and we probably at that point had three wins or something. And we’re better now. So we have a lot of confidence going into it.”
The Raiders took a 14-13 lead early in the fourth quarter on a 2-yard run by Justin Fargas, only to have Peyton Manning orchestrate a 91-yard, 11-play drive that took 5:40 off the clock, ending with a 20-yard touchdown pass to Anthony Gonzalez and a two-point conversion run by Joseph Addai.
The play that sticks out to Asomugha on the drive was a third-and-3 pass from Manning to Reggie Wayne for 19 yards and a first down at the Indianapolis 35, with the Indianapolis receiver making a leaping one-handed catch and somehow coming down inbounds.
“I still don’t think he caught it, he says he caught it,” Asomugha said. “I guess he said there was a Youtube debate on whether he caught it or not. He’s got great hands”
The Raiders drove the ball to the Indianapolis 16 before turning the ball over on downs when Josh McCown twice threw incomplete to Jerry Porter.
Manning then expertly killed the clock, throwing an incompletion high into the air as it ticked to zero and Indianapolis avoided the upset at his first and only visit to the Coliseum.
Asked by reporters in Indianapolis if he had found time to wander in to the Black Hole, Manning said dryly, “I didn’t get down there. It wasn’t on my itinerary.”
Manning’s numbers that day were not extraordinary. He was 22 of 39 for 276 yards, a touchdown, an interception by Thomas Howard, and a 76.4 passer rating. Oakland played the Colts fairly straight up, got three sacks all from defensive linemen _ Derrick Burgess, Chris Clemons and Gerard Warren _ and the offense did its part with a 33:46 to 26:14 time of possession advantage.
Sounds like a plan.
Asomugha’s message to his younger teammates is not to get caught up in anything but their job.
“You don’t want to get in there and start getting nervous because it’s Peyton Manning,” Asomugha said. “Cover your receivers. You’re not covering Peyton. If you can dominate the receivers you’ll make it a lot tougher on Peyton.”
Not that Manning didn’t have the Raiders buzzing afterward with his command. Asomugha described Manning as identifying some defenses at the line of scrimmages before the Raiders had committed.
“He’s a guy that sometimes seems like he’s clairvoyant and he knows what’s about to happen before every snap,” Asomugha said.
Friday injury report
P Shane Lechler (hamstring) DT Richard Seymour (hamstring) and RT Langston Walker (concussion) did not participate in practice but are listed as questionable; WR Johnnie Lee Higgins (ankle) was limited and listed as questionable; CB Chris Johnson (groin), TE Zach Miller (foot), WR Nick Miller (ankle), S Mike Mitchell (ribs) and Asomugha (ankle) had full participation and were listed as probable.
Seymour and Walker will be game-time decisions. Walker, Cable said, has completed two of the three stages needed to be cleared to play following a concussion. The Raiders have not yet determined whether Danny Baugher will be activated from the practice squad for insurance even if Lechler plays.
COAT DRIVE
The Raiders and Goodwill Industries will hold a coat drive Sunday with fans asked to bring coats and drop them off in bins located at gates C and D to benefit those served by Goodwill Industries of the Greater East Bay.
Happy Holidays . . .
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December 24th, 2010 at 3:39 pm
First!!
December 24th, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Merry Christmas Everyone! Hope we all get a sweet present win over the Foals on Sunday.
Everyone Drive Safely to your destinations!
December 24th, 2010 at 3:49 pm
Ride’em hard, and put’em up, wet!
December 24th, 2010 at 3:58 pm
73.The Dirtee Raccoon Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 3:57 pm
71.hwnrdr Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 3:34 pm
That got me worried too! Big Al better resign him…him and DMAC compensate each other…
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Complement ment you no!
December 24th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
Those were some hefty sized fellas throwing haymakers in Hawaii and it went on for several minutes?
They really screwed up especially the troubled young man from LA
December 24th, 2010 at 4:23 pm
I’d love for Bush to stay, but it’s just not going to happen. Another team will gladly make him a feature back and pay him like a starter.
Good, healthy running backs are a hot commodity in the NFL, even moreso than wide receivers because of the significant wear and tear that running backs have to put up with on a regular basis.
With Miller, Seymour, Gallery, Huff, Satele, and other key players heading into free agency, it’s doubtful there will be enough money left over to keep Bush happy. Especially because there will certainly be other offers on the table.
Think about it. What team in the era of free agency has been able to keep two productive, every-down RBs under contract through their primes? Particularly when one is getting paid like a top 5 draft pick… I can’t think of any instances of that happening.
December 24th, 2010 at 4:26 pm
Seattle, Cincinnati, Green Bay, and Washington are some teams that would certainly be in the market for Michael Bush’s services.
December 24th, 2010 at 4:33 pm
If Al has the money to sign Miller, Seymour, Gallery, Huff, Satele, and Bush and still has money left over to sign adequate replacements for Routt and Walker, and even depth players like Howard, Higgins, Barnes, Henderson, and Gradkowski… well, I’ll be impressed.
December 24th, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Merry Christmas Jerry to you and yours. You are the BEST!
December 24th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
7. and Denver…
8. Davis almost always gets his man.
December 24th, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Al always seems to find the money, to pay anyone he wants to keep on the roster…we also won’t have a first round contract to payout in 2011, some of that could funnel back into resigning vets.
I hope Bush stays…
Go Raiders!
December 24th, 2010 at 4:50 pm
I hope you’re right, but I also hope that trying to keep Bush doesn’t prevent the Raiders from upgrading the RG, RT, and CB spots, not to mention signing quality rotational players.
Considering the fact that every year quality running backs are found in the late rounds and as undrafted free agents, I don’t think paying Bush should take priority over bolstering other positions in greater need of improvement.
December 24th, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Al is not worried about letting Bush go
December 24th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
I don’t think the Raiders “HAVE TO” sign Huff, Miller or necessarily Satele. Those guys can all be replaced.
Bush is more valuable to the Raiders than any of those guys, imo.
If you can afford DHB, you should be able to afford anybody.
December 24th, 2010 at 4:58 pm
That’s a helluva 1-2 punch, and helluva insurance against injury to either one of them. That ground game rolls on.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Who replaces Miller and Satele?
December 24th, 2010 at 5:12 pm
14.KoolKell Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 4:56 pm
I don’t think the Raiders “HAVE TO” sign Huff, Miller or necessarily Satele. Those guys can all be replaced.
Bush is more valuable to the Raiders than any of those guys, imo.
If you can afford DHB, you should be able to afford anybody.
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thank u kk. bush is way more important than dhb and huff. they always say al cant afford 2 keep certain guys and he always does. bottom line is bush will stay if al wants him 2. there is no way u break up what could be 1 of the best rb duos ever. if they were smart bush and dmc would be 65 -70% of the offense most games. the chargers azz whippin was a perfect example why u dont break them up. if hue jackman was smart he would do that more often. unfortunately he isnt.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:13 pm
Bush should either be signed or franchised. He needs to be in OUR backfield with DMac.
Other key signings include Seymour, Gallery, Satele, KBarnes MHenderson, JHenderson, THoward, ZMiller, HEugene, Huff & Routt. I believe we can get Gallery, Satele, KBarnes, MHenderson, KBarnes, JHenderson, HEugene & THoward fairly inexpensively.
Grads can be resigned as a back-up if we get him dirt cheap. He won’t be in demand. I think JLH, RBrown, Frye & SWilliams are all expendable.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
DHB should plan on renegotiating his contract to reflect his current level of development and production.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
19.JB Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 5:16 pm
DHB should plan on renegotiating his contract to reflect his current level of development and production.
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Yup, or get cut!!
December 24th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
YoungAmerican Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Who replaces Miller and Satele?
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Jake Grove, perhaps, draft pick……..Miller?……Brandon Meysers, draft pick, FA.
To find a guy like Bush, with his size speed, verve………priceless.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:22 pm
I don’t expect addai to be a factor even if he starts but their real “rushing attack” is that short controlled passing game. If we can get good coverage by the db’s we can slow them down a little bit. I hope the Coliseum and The Black Hole will be rockin’ Sunday!
Hard to predict a score for this one but i’ll say
RAIDERS 28 colts 20
December 24th, 2010 at 5:25 pm
I thought it was pretty clear how badly the offense struggled with Myers playing in Miller’s place. Who in free agency could replace Miller?
Jake Grove… been down that road before. Wouldn’t be a bad signing for depth, though. Satele fits the Raiders’ blocking scheme better than anyone else in free agency. He won’t cost a whole lot, either. And as for the draft… the Raiders won’t be in any position to take Wisniewski or Pouncey, and O’Dowd has the same durability issues as Grove. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see the center position upgraded, but there just isn’t going to be a definite upgrade available to the Raiders.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Zach Miller almost always seems to catch the ball and move downfield. That td run against the Eagles last year showed that. A few good blocks down field and he ran in to the end zone…yeah, we need Zach, but Bush Al somehow has to sign!
December 24th, 2010 at 5:34 pm
I’d like to see Eugene and Henderson back as rotational players, for sure. Eugene has been key on special teams. So has Cartwright, for that matter.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:37 pm
The Rock! One blocked punt(?) and a forced fumble on a kickoff…in one game! He was a key pick up! What has Michael Bennett done?
December 24th, 2010 at 5:39 pm
Go Raiders u Beezy
December 24th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
Who knew Veldheer was going to be our incumbent LT?
Wisnewski & Pouncey aren’t the only alternatives for Center.
I’m saying there are vets out there right now who could play as well as Satele.
But, whatever. I’d S.can a dozen Sateles, before I let M. Bush go. And, that probably goes for A Miller, too.
December 24th, 2010 at 5:59 pm
What vets could replace Satele?
December 24th, 2010 at 6:03 pm
If you’d keep a back-up running back (albeit a good one) over the Raiders’ leading receiver, you’re just being illogical.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:13 pm
id love to see them keep bush, as well as use him more often, but i agree that Z miller, and even gallery and satele may be more important. someone has to open that hole for bush, and he is a good running back, not a great one. even when he was starting, he was GOOD, but not great. DMC is being great and like it was said earlier, good running backs are everywhere nowadays.
if they can keep him, good, if not…hate to see him go. but Z miller is a pro bowl tight end, and we could use more depth. running back is the easiest position to find depth in.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:18 pm
The thing that worries me about Pouncey is he stayed while his twin declared last year. That tells me that he isn’t nearly as good as his twin. Then it gets proven this year because Florida sucked. They couldn’t run like last year. I know Tebow was there but still. I think Pouncey will be around in the 3rd or 4th round.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
if they can keep him, good, if not…hate to see him go. but Z miller is a pro bowl tight end, and we could use more depth. running back is the easiest position to find depth in.
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Yep, that’s exactly it. I’d love to see Bush back, but as long as McFadden is healthy Bush would be playing second fiddle. If he can accept that, and wants to stick with the Raiders, then fantastic! But if he leaves, I’m not about to panic. Especially if the money the Raiders would use to pay him, they spend on bolstering the offensive line. Good blocking makes average running backs look good, and good running backs look great.
See: BenJarvis Green-Ellis and Danny Woodhead.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Bush scores waaay more TD’s than Z.Miller.
As far as I know Z. Miller has never made the Pro Bowl.
I’m not hatin on the guy. I’m just saying, push come to shove, I keep Mike Bush.
A Vet WR helps, too.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:21 pm
Where our team is headed, I’m more interested in who we get as free agents or trade. We will look there to upgrade our top priorities. Then we draft for depth.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:25 pm
Could very well be that MHenderson ends up being the RT we are looking for. That still leaves us Walker, KBarnes, BCampbell & Loper as back-up O-linemen. As back-ups they are not all that bad. We are in need of help at center for sure. And, BCampbell may come out of his shell and compete for a starting roll. Has anyone considered BCampbell as a superior blocking FB? He’s got the speed, size and strength. Might be worthwhile to look into.
On the defense side, do we keep JHenderson? I think that all depends on how he performs these last two games. We should also be looking at Thomas Howard possibly staring for Groves this next week vs. the Colts. We need a LB who can cover more than we need a run stuffer.
Special teams-wise Eugene, Howard and even Sam Williams have proven to be special team standouts. All are worth keeping if the price is right.
Main draft needs next year Center, CB, DT, DE & QB.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Bush is putting up Zach Crockett numbers (250 yds rushing and 10 TDs).after DMAC does the dirty work.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:27 pm
KoolKell Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 6:20 pm
Bush scores waaay more TD’s than Z.Miller.
As far as I know Z. Miller has never made the Pro Bowl.
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That’s because they put Bush in on the goal line. No reason that McFadden can’t score his own TDs, and there’s no reason they can’t draft a big back who can do similar things in similar situations. Even in the late rounds (LeGarrette Blount comes to mind). It’s not like Mike Bush has made the ProBowl, either.
Push comes to shove? I pick the guy who has proven year after year to be the most reliable target in the receiving game. Much harder to find a guy like that than it is to find a guy who can be a chance of pace back and punch it in on the goal line.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:30 pm
# 504 Raider Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Bush is putting up Zach Crockett numbers (250 yds rushing and 10 TDs).after DMAC does the dirty work.
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This s a team sport. I don’t care who does it as long as it gets done.
IMO, Bush would have better numbers if he were given more opportunities. I really hopr HuJack designs some plays where DMac, Bush & Reece are all in the backfield at the same time. You can’t tell me that this particular selection of athletes wouldn’t cause concern for a defensive unit.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:38 pm
DMac, Bush, and Reece are all very solid players. I’d love to see Bush return, but for that to happen Al is going to have to match some serious offers. That’s just the reality of the situation.
I don’t doubt that Al can afford to. I just think that if it comes down to it, Al’s money would be better spent on FA offensive linemen, and re-signing guys like Seymour, Miller, Gallery, Huff, and Satele.
This is not a deep draft for offensive linemen at all – especially not ones who could come in right away and contribute. Gotta focus on upgrading through free agency, and keeping some key players to maintain some semblance of continuity.
December 24th, 2010 at 6:47 pm
happy holidays raider nation!
December 24th, 2010 at 7:06 pm
The Bush situation is worrisome as some team might throw big coin at him to be a starter. Other than that, as usual, Al will be able to sign everyone he wants to keep. Z. Miller is staying. You don’t let a TE of his caliber go for nothing. The o-line can be upgraded through the draft and FA.
Merry Christmas nation! Don’t eat too many turkey McNuggets.
December 24th, 2010 at 7:09 pm
Oh yeah: The key to beating Peyton Sunday…Mostly 4 man rush with the odd blitz from different angles and hard press coverage.
December 24th, 2010 at 7:12 pm
The magic of Christmas is in the air and New Year is just round the corner …
December 24th, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Mike Bush, is much more than a goal-line back. Way more, he scores from all over the field, catching or hand offs.
It’s a lot harder to replace that, than a 20 yd seam route.
December 24th, 2010 at 7:35 pm
Merry X-mas Nation, and to all of my favorite Raider Fannatics in here… Happy New Year!!
December 24th, 2010 at 7:40 pm
Still incredibly stoked for Sunday’s tilt! I am looking forward to Huff blitzing…the guy has been a beast blitzing lately!
And Aso getting healthy is going to be huge! He’s the captain of that secondary, and when he’s not in it shows.
Things that are making me laugh, is that a concussed Langston Walker may start infront of Mario Hendersen…has Super Mario fallen that far’ Don`t forget the midweek report of Langston out there giving Mario pointers, imagine how that conversation went…Hilarious.
All I want for Christmas is a great game on Sunday.
December 24th, 2010 at 7:41 pm
He is definitely more than a goal line back. Which is why he’s going to get a lot of offers from around the league.
But the Raiders use him almost exclusively as a goal line back when McFadden is healthy. If he stays with the Raiders, he will be a change-of-pace guy and nothing more, unless McFadden gets hurt.
To reduce Miller to a 20-yard seam route is hilariously simple. He has led the team in receiving four, what, four straight years? Yeah, sorry, I’ll take him over Bush any day. I’ll take some offensive line help over Bush any day, too. I’ll take a #2 corner over Bush as well.
Bush is a very good player, but this team has other needs, and decent change-of-pace backs are not so hard to find.
December 24th, 2010 at 7:42 pm
for*
December 24th, 2010 at 7:44 pm
KoolKell u cant be serious. as the other guy says, u can find a guy like Lagerrete Blount late round too. and how does he score from all over the field? other than the TB game, what HUGE plays has he made besides being a TD vulture?
December 24th, 2010 at 7:47 pm
Gotta chime in on the Bush debate, my thing with Bush is sometimes he is an amazing change of pace back, and sometimes he is painfully ordinary, it seems to me sometimes his head just isn’t in it.
But Young American, you wishlist above Bush was hilarious, and I would have a hard time arguing with any of those things..
But this is a two back league, and McFadden hasnt been durable enough yet to warrant bringing in a second rate second back. We’re still a run first team.
December 24th, 2010 at 7:54 pm
In the defense of Mike Bush, he’s come in on a few occasions when McFadden begins to get stuffed and runs some hard yards between the tackles, and he’s broken a few, my biggest issue with Bush is how the coaches have been blending him in with McFadden,
December 24th, 2010 at 8:03 pm
if by “blending” you mean not using him enough, then yes.
that being said, a lot of people can be change of pace backs, not just mike bush
December 24th, 2010 at 8:05 pm
I think Bush is very similar to McFadden in that the more carries he gets, the more likely he is to break off a big run. For a big guy he moves with a lot of finesse, and can catch the ball too. Very good, complete player. Which is exactly why the Raiders will have trouble keeping him without paying him like a starter – and even then, maybe he wants to be able to be the feature back somewhere.
I think he’s a good player, but if it comes down to keeping a second-string running back and re-signing Seymour and Miller, or upgrading the RG, RT, or CB positions, I think it’s an easy enough choice.
Who knows, maybe Al has the money to keep him and still fill the positions of need. But I’m not about to panic if Bush goes elsewhere.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:14 pm
To reduce Miller to a 20-yard seam route is hilariously simple. He has led the team in receiving four, what, four straight years?
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Hardly like climbing Mt Everest.
McFadden
Bush
Ford
Reese
Miller
December 24th, 2010 at 8:17 pm
Yeah, sorry dude, you’re not going to convince me that it’s a better idea to create an entirely new position of need (on a team that already has several) by getting rid of the team’s perennial leading receiver than to let a second-string RB go somewhere else if he gets a big contract offer.
Agree to disagree here.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:21 pm
Bush can’t pass block, he’s mediocre at best in that department, what team is going to give M Bush a big contract?
I’m willing to bet we keep Seymour, (depending on how we finish, that is) Keep Miller and keep Bush.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:23 pm
And I don’t see Seymour getting any bigger offer than what the Raiders will give, don’t forget Al’s still kickin’ and I’m willing to bet he kicks something in King Richards wallet.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:25 pm
Besides, loosing Seymore the year we don’t have a 1st rounder would be too much for Mr. Davis to take, I hope
December 24th, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Seymour definitely is going to stay, one way or another. He’ll probably get a hefty three-year deal with an option like Nnamdi did.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:34 pm
‘Sup fellas.
The lil ones are tucked safely in bed.
Merry Christmas Raider Nation to you and yours.
Hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday.
Oh yeah.. and Just Win, Baby!
December 24th, 2010 at 8:41 pm
I could be wrong on this but the leading rusher for rookie RBs is N.O. Saints Chris Ivory. He went undrafted. And he didn’t start until a few games in when Undrafted starter, Pierre Thomas got injured in week 3 or 4. Notice I didn’t mention big time #2 overall pick Reggie Bush.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:42 pm
That is indeed a scary list of potential free agents after this season. Al is going to have to be at his creative, free spending best.
I don’t want to lose any of ‘em. Especially Seymour, Z Miller, Gallery, Huff or Bush. Damn. Porobably won’t be able to keep em all.
Who knows what’s going to happen with the CBA, even. We’re probably best off concentrating on beating the Colts this weekend. Plus rooting for the Titans to keep faint playoff hopes alive.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:53 pm
I hope Mr. Davis calls DHB into the office and talks about restructuring that deal. Explain that it is important to be able to resign some of those teammates.
It’s my understanding Gallery has done it a couple of times. DHB seems like a team oriented type of guy. I hope so.
Seems like somebody else was always restructuring their deal to free up cash to sign free agents…salary cap wise. Tim Brown, maybe? anybody remember?
December 24th, 2010 at 8:54 pm
I think I just saw the worst segment in the history of ESPN; Marcellus Wiley playing the part of “Santa’s helper” making predictions in a Jamaican accent.
He did pick Titans to upset the Chiefs, but the Colts to edge Raiders.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Bush over Miller is crazy-town.
Bush vs SD 26 ca. 4 ypc. Slightly below NFL average.
Bush vs SF 20 ca. 47 yards Yuck.
Bush at Denver 15 ca. 3.5 ypc Yuck.
Bush at SD 23 ca. 4.1 ypc NFL average.
Bush vs Den. 12 ca. 24 yards. Yuck.
The rest of the league doesn’t have fan-glasses when looking at Bush. He’s no Michael Turner.
He’s averaging 3.8 yards per carry this year, well below the NFL average.
For his career he’s at 4.3, which is average.
His best comparison pro-wise is San Diego’s Mike Tolbert, and no one’s saying teams will be fawning over Mike this off-season.
As shaky as Seattle’s running game has been this year, Justin Forsett is averaging 4.5 yards per carry this year, and 5.0 for his career.
December 24th, 2010 at 8:57 pm
Buckeye,
when the Raiders were winning in the early 2000s, all those guys were restructuring: Mo Collins, Lincoln Kennedy, Greg Biekert, even Rich Gannon I believe.
Good veteran team back then.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:05 pm
Yes they were Alex.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Isn’t it odd how veteran-heavy almost every good Raider team in history has been, yet how reluctant the Raiders have been in bringing in a veteran WR, which is actually somewhat easy to find most years.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:11 pm
66.alex7 Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Bush over Miller is crazy-town.
Bush vs SD 26 ca. 4 ypc. Slightly below NFL average.
Bush vs SF 20 ca. 47 yards Yuck.
Bush at Denver 15 ca. 3.5 ypc Yuck.
Bush at SD 23 ca. 4.1 ypc NFL average.
Bush vs Den. 12 ca. 24 yards. Yuck.
The rest of the league doesn’t have fan-glasses when looking at Bush. He’s no Michael Turner.
He’s averaging 3.8 yards per carry this year, well below the NFL average.
For his career he’s at 4.3, which is average.
His best comparison pro-wise is San Diego’s Mike Tolbert, and no one’s saying teams will be fawning over Mike this off-season.
As shaky as Seattle’s running game has been this year, Justin Forsett is averaging 4.5 yards per carry this year, and 5.0 for his career.
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You can’t really judge a RB on yards per carry unless you have a larger sample size than the one we have with Bush. You mention his 4.3 yards per carry career as being ‘average’ well let’s take a look at some other “average” running backs with similar yards per carry:
-Emmitt Smith 4.2
-Walter Payton 4.4
-Marcus Allen 4.1
-Jerome Bettis 3.9
-Eric Dickerson 4.4
-Marshall Faulk 4.3
-Tony Dorsett 4.3
I for one would like to see more from what Bush can do given a heavy workload.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Just to add, you can’t judge Bush and his 4.3 ypc. as the bellweather of whether he has the potential to emerge at some point as an elite runner. Maybe, maybe not. His numbers compared to the greats referenced above lack the explosive highlight reel runs we’ve seen time and again from the ‘greats’, but we just don’t know what Bush has got…really.
That being said, I would have to forfeit my desire to find out at the risk of taking away carries from DMAC who does show flashes of being a potential big game elite runner with all the highlight reel runs we could stand.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:22 pm
Why do we typically pull up 30 year old stats to compare modern guys with?
You guys do the same when I point out that no QB goes 6 seasons of average like Campbell, then turns around and does well.
“Uhhh, 25 years ago …”
“Uhhh, 200 years ago…”
IN THIS GENERATION’S NFL, top RBs are averaging 4.5 to 6 yards a carry.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
69.alex7 Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Isn’t it odd how veteran-heavy almost every good Raider team in history has been, yet how reluctant the Raiders have been in bringing in a veteran WR, which is actually somewhat easy to find most years.
—
Yeah, why is that? I would’ve taken Marvin Harrison for a year or two.
How about a guy who can catch the freaking ball?
December 24th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
This HAS been Bush’s heaviest workload of his career.
Five times he’s had double-digit carries.
Once he cracked more than 4 yards a pop.
He’s average, guys. There’s no proof otherwise, outside of the fact he plays for our team.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Here’s one for the conspiracy-theory minded amongst us (guilty as charged,sometimes):
Would the League angle for a winner take all showdown for the West in week 17? Flexed out to an 8:00 pm start.
Back when the two teams played that overtime thriller earlier this year it got a huge write up in Sports Illustrated. That morning on NFLN pregame Steve Sabol did a 10 minute piece on the history of the rivalry. All the old highlights. The talk was about how great it was to have these two storied franchises and one of the greatest rivalries relevant again.
The NFL wouldn’t stoop to using some creative officiating or whatever is in it’s power this weekend to ensure a prime-time week 17, winner take all showdown would they? Nah.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:29 pm
Djohnny,
I’ll buy that Bush has “potential.”
But to think NFL teams are lining up ready to give him a starting gig, when most teams are employing a 2-headed RB situation as it is…
there’s just no objective reason to think that. He’s average and RBs are a dime a dozen.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:32 pm
Certainly not more valuable than Miller.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:41 pm
While the Raiders passing game has struggled mightily as of late, with receivers playing like they’re wearing boxing gloves, Zach Miller has been their only reliable, consistant pass catcher. They say a good TE is a QB’s best friend. His security blanket.
The Raiders O defenitely suffered while Miller was out and even when he was back but not quite his usual self. I think he would be much harder to relace than a backup/compliment to McFadden.
And that’s no disrespect to Bush, whom I really like. They make a nice one-two punch. A backup RB would be easier to replace than a prowbowl caliber, young TE.
My only cocern with Miller is his injury history. This isn’t his first concussion.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
mike bush this year has been a short yardage specialist, you can’t take his yardage stats verbatim. the man carried the team last year, how quickly we forget.. resign him, not at the expense of miller or anyone of our top tier guys, but he definitely needs to stay..
oh i forgot MERRY CHRISTMAS NATION!!!!!!
December 24th, 2010 at 9:47 pm
If the franchise tag is back with the new CBA, put it on Miller. And if he can’t be re-signed to a long-term deal, take Kyle Rudolph in the first round next season.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:51 pm
Actually Zach’s latest injuries were in his legs and feet, I believe. He had a leg contusion or something. I believe he has had some concussion issues in the past, though.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:54 pm
alex7, when you were talking about qb’s not improving after 5-6-7 years, how many years have you been a raider fan?? because we did it twice with plunkett and gannon
December 24th, 2010 at 9:55 pm
RB’s are ten times easier to replace than really good TE’s.
How many good TE’s come into the league each season? 2 maybe 3.
Meanwhile there are half a dozen RB’s that come in and do just as well as Bush, every single year.
It would probably take one offseason to not only replace Bush, but maybe even upgrade the spot. 2 offseasons at the worst.
Meanwhile, if we got rid of Zack Miller, it might take us 10 years to upgrade that spot.
December 24th, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Merry Christmas Vegas.
December 24th, 2010 at 10:09 pm
I went out and did some last minute christmas shopping this morning. The first thing I thought was damn…it’s not cold enough. I didn’t even wear a coat.
And where is all the snow they were forecasting? Need it to be cold and blustery when them Southern California DisChargers roll into town.
Bungles need all the help they can get.
December 24th, 2010 at 10:23 pm
We may fuss n we may fight,
but this I know is right!
Win, lose, or tie,
Raider Nation till we die!
Merry Christmas to all you guys and may God bless you and your families!!
December 24th, 2010 at 10:26 pm
Merry X-mas Buck and all of Raider Nation
December 24th, 2010 at 10:33 pm
You guys have had way too much egg nog. Raiders cannot afford to lose impact players like M.Bush or Z.Miller.
Route
DHB
Carlisle
R.Brown
Condo
These guys need replacements.
I’m sure that I missed a couple of others.
December 24th, 2010 at 10:37 pm
Regarding Jerry’s article, I know what happened in the past has no bearing whatsoever on what’s going to happen this Sunday, but damn it has to be encouraging that a much inferior Raider team than today damn near beat a much better Colts team just a couple of years ago.
Makes me feel even a little better about Sunday. I think the Raiders are in good position to pull the upset and keep their faint playoff hopes alive.
You gotta believe!
December 24th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
G’Night and Happy Holidays, fellas.
December 24th, 2010 at 10:51 pm
Sign these 3 players as a priority
Seymour
Miller
Bush
All other players can walk if not willing to re-sign at modest salaries
December 24th, 2010 at 10:53 pm
A quote from a movie “That Tom Cable, he’s the only white man who ever made me moist.”
Titans and Raiders kick azz Sunday.
Happy Holidays
December 24th, 2010 at 10:57 pm
R8rwill,
the evidence shows that after a QB has STARTED in the league for 4 to 5 years, he is who he is, and doesn’t suddenly make a big improvement jump.
1999 was Gannon’s 5th year as a full-time starter, and he threw for 3,840 yards and 24 TDs, establishing himself as a star. He also had a career winning record prior to 1999.
Every QB I researched made the “star” jump by his 3rd or 4th year STARTING. Those 50-something games were enough time to prove who the QB was.
This is JC’s 5th year starting and it’s safe to say we know who he is – a guy who gets decent yardage and completion % totals due to safe checkdowns, doesn’t turn the ball over, hasn’t thrown for more than 20 TDs yet, and struggles to handle pressure and win games.
December 24th, 2010 at 10:58 pm
I feel Huff is much harder to replace than Bush.
We haven’t had safety play-making like Huff’s since Eric Turner was around.
December 24th, 2010 at 10:59 pm
Merry Christmas all
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on here and making this a fun place for fans to vent, philosophize, hope, and have fun.
December 24th, 2010 at 11:08 pm
Same to you Alex. And to all a goodnite.
December 24th, 2010 at 11:10 pm
Do we know that Bush is going to be a free agent??
December 24th, 2010 at 11:23 pm
When taken in the 4th round, Bush signed a typical 3-year deal.
According to Rotoworld, he’s a FA next year.
http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/playerpages/player_relatednews.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4156
If someone wants to offer him starter money, even though most of the NFL has moved on to RBs by committees, so be it.
We can replace an average back like Bush fairly easy in the 4th/5th round area, or in free agency, and save big $ to pay for Carson Palmer to come compete
December 24th, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Mike Bush aing goin’ anywhere he’s a favorite of Big Al’s talking about it is fun or not but Bush will be a Raider for a long time. We can get whatever we need without getting rid of great players to get a good one.
This is where we get better not worse you add to what we have not subtract from it. This team would suffer greatly by getting rid of Mike Bush. Stop worrying about who we’ll keep at this point because there will be no cap.
The Raiders have got to get in Payton’s face and stay there to win this game.
December 24th, 2010 at 11:26 pm
alex7, ‘the evidence’ and ‘facts’ are you kidding me? you can spin any “fact”. clearly the evidence points to gannon, i don’t know where you got that statistic. gannon came cheap after he had bounced from a couple of teams..as did plunkett, do you believe the chiefs would have allowed gannon to come to the raiders if they had any idea of his ability??? give us a break….facts lol you talk about bush’s stats, against the donks he had two carries of one yard each, thats a really bad average. but both carries ended in the zone.. so spin it any way you want, in this case your facts are wrong
December 24th, 2010 at 11:28 pm
alex7, how long have you been a raiders fan??
December 24th, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Getting a “good” #2 RB is NOT easy. Getting good players at ANY position is NOT easy. We should be PAINFULLY aware of that reality as Raider fans.
When you have GOOD players, regardless of position, you keep him.
Bush won’t be easily replaced. Remember, the Raiders were in Running Back wilderness for 8 years.
Keep Bush….Keep Miller and Keep Seymour.
December 24th, 2010 at 11:34 pm
22.KoolKell Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 5:19 pm
YoungAmerican Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Who replaces Miller and Satele?
——————————–
Jake Grove, perhaps, draft pick……..Miller?……Brandon Meysers, draft pick, FA.
To find a guy like Bush, with his size speed, verve………priceless.
***********
We have McFaddy AHEAD of Bush!
Meyers is BEHIND Miller!
And you think Bush is the HIGHER priority???
Bush is a LUXURY! Miller is a MUST have!
With Bush and McFaddy our run game is awesome! BUT Miller has alot to do with that as well!
December 24th, 2010 at 11:35 pm
Keep Bush, and trade McFaddy for Tony Gonzalezzzzz!
December 24th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
the story about bush is he would have been a top five pick, he was a monster his freshman sophmore and junior years.. he shattered his ankle i think the first game of his senior year and couldn’t/wouldn’t play for two years.. mr davis took a chance on him in the fourth round..you don’t remember what it was like when we had rb’s like harvey williams, dominic rhodes and others..good running backs are not a dime a dozen and when a team has one they hold on….
December 24th, 2010 at 11:42 pm
This is a run first offense and will always be such as long as the receiver corps opposite Ford reads: DHB, Schilens, Murphy, JLH etc….
Two running backs that can get it done is a luxury you want to keep. A luxury that gives you a COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE!
Bush, Miller and Seymour….anyone else can walk
December 24th, 2010 at 11:45 pm
Miller is also a no-brainer. When healthy he is one of the top TEs in the league. A guy that has to be game planned.
And Seymour gives you two elite players; himself and Tommy Kelly…..I think he is responsible for getting T.Kelly at a pro-bowl level
December 24th, 2010 at 11:53 pm
106.r8rwill Says:
December 24th, 2010 at 11:41 pm
the story about bush is he would have been a top five pick, he was a monster his freshman sophmore and junior years.. he shattered his ankle i think the first game of his senior year and couldn’t/wouldn’t play for two years.. mr davis took a chance on him in the fourth round..you don’t remember what it was like when we had rb’s like harvey williams, dominic rhodes and others..good running backs are not a dime a dozen and when a team has one they hold on….
*
****
when a team has one they hold on….
How bout whrn they have two?
December 25th, 2010 at 12:02 am
You keep both if you have a brain at all. A`tandem like we have is a dream come true not many can boast that. Mr Davis can keep as many playes as are worth keeping just enjoy the game sand stop trying to tel him how many players he can keep.
Bush is a great back if DMC goes down he can be as dominant as DMC given the chance. Two great backs equal dominance…………period
December 25th, 2010 at 12:07 am
trade dmc for michael bush. ,oh wait, nobody wanted dmc earlier this year; bush was our guy!(pre-season) Yeah, we need both. You guys are ridiculous.I’m drunk and happy. GO RAIDERSSSSSSSSSSSS
December 25th, 2010 at 12:22 am
tell’em priest. some on here play way too much fantasy football, and try to transpose that knowledge to the real thing. as my neighbor mr kelly would say “that don’t woik”" lol
December 25th, 2010 at 12:31 am
r8rwill,
what you say, and what I’m saying, are not even closely related. Not sure what your point is on anything.
re: Gannon – Who knows/who cares what the Chiefs thought. My point is every good QB we can think of in the last 20 years demonstrated star quality by his 4th or 5th year as a FULL-TIME starter.
If you want to debate that, show some proof otherwise.
December 25th, 2010 at 12:33 am
the team i remember having a one-two punch aside from the raiders with allen/jackson, garner/wheatley, is way back in history/, jim kiick and larry zsonka, miami had a qb named griese. he had no arm at all, he didn’t need one!!
December 25th, 2010 at 12:38 am
You guys throw out comments like “Bush can be as dominant as DMC”…
really? come on.
DMAC has become one of the top 7 RBs in all of football.
Bush, when given a chance to shine in October with 3 straight games getting 26, 20, and 14 carries, was able to work up an awesome 3 yards a carry.
Yes, he’ll have the occasional 130 yard game, which is nice and all, but he’ll NEVER be the threat in the passing game that has made DMAC pro-bowl talk.
You’re comparing one of the best ALL-AROUND running backs in all of football with Bush, who will never catch a 5 yard swing pass and blaze his way 70 yards.
December 25th, 2010 at 12:43 am
Michael Bush is no better than:
Chris Ivory
Damien Woodhead
Mike Goodson
Green-Ellis
Mike Tolbert
Ryan Torain
and a bunch of other guys none of us knew 5 months ago.
You act like you can’t possibly replace an average NFL running back just because he weighs a bit and plays on your favorite team.
December 25th, 2010 at 12:53 am
A week late, but just watched Ford’s 71-yard TD run vs Denver
Silly that they never replayed that at any point of the game, knowing most fans were joining the telecast in progress AFTER it had happened.
Hue will be kept at all costs, Cable.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:00 am
alex7, your statement about qb’s “by their fifth year they are what they are if they are average the first five, they’ll be average after” that is to say they don’t suddenly become great after five years..is one of your ‘facts’, you spouted off in a conversation about campbell.. i will ask again, how long have you been a raiders fan???
December 25th, 2010 at 1:01 am
115. Michael Bush is a 1,000 yd back in waiting.
He runs hard, has great hands, hs developed into a very good pass blocker and a well rounded RB.
He was a 1st round prospect before breaking his leg.
Davis stands pat and keeps this team together including Cable and Jackson.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:02 am
114. You obviosuly don’t realize Bush’s capabilities.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:05 am
Nnamdi,
Harvey Williams ran for 1,000 yards.
Lamont Jordan did it too.
Green-Ellis likely will this year.
Fred Jackson, too.
You’re not saying much.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:06 am
if we lose sunday(god forbid) there will be several posters in here who will want to fire cable jackson and marshall, aside from the conditioning coach brad roll. and cut campbell dmac and half of the defense lol
December 25th, 2010 at 1:07 am
lol, are you honestly saying that Bush has as much talent/potential/whatever as DMC?
That Bush could be one of the 7 best RBs in the ENTIRE NFL?
Based on…
I guess Charger fans could make the same exact statement about Mike Tolbert, who is Bush’s closest comparable in what we like to call…
reality.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:09 am
It took me until last year to realize that our run defense will NEVER again be top 15 until Davis allows a DC to run zone mixed in with man.
Or until we go all 2002 offense and no one gets the chance to run on us.
Strict man-to-man = give up big run plays while your DBs are turned around running down the field chasing unimportant WRs and the RB is running behind them
December 25th, 2010 at 1:10 am
watch Tebow’s 40-yard run and you’ll see a few Raider DBs running down the field with a WR, clueless that Tebow is running right NEXT to them.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:14 am
Rob Zombie says “people hate raiders like poetry, Yeaahh! gimmme that gimmme that, Raider resurrection. Chris Johnson will show Charles who is to the windows to the walls, and Moss will be good a TD during crunch time.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:15 am
I don’t know how this turned into an argument about which one of these guys is better.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:17 am
someone earlier wanted to keep Bush even if it meant losing Zach Miller. Too much egg-nog, methinks.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:18 am
a7, in the highlight film of ford’s run, did you notice who laid the block that sprung him?
December 25th, 2010 at 1:23 am
Satele and DHB had good blocks.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:29 am
two different kinds of running backs, dmac is a scat back type and bush is a bruiser. and bush may not run 70 yards after catching a swing or screen but i have seen him rumble for forty or so on several occasions
December 25th, 2010 at 1:30 am
Our wide receivers block as well as any NFL WR unit.
If only they could catch.
Wouldn’t be crazy to say getting T.O. this season would have been the difference between playoffs and no playoffs.
But alas we have to pay $15 million for Nnamdi because Al hates zone D.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:32 am
nation, it is always a pleasure, have a merry christmas, peace, i’m out love my raiders
December 25th, 2010 at 1:34 am
I like Bush as a #2 RB. Never have said otherwise.
Someone stated he was more valuable than Miller, which was laughable. That’s where this all started.
Then someone said Bush had a chance to dominate the way DMac has, which is also laughable.
Bush, if you ask non-Raider fans, is a solid, average, NFL RB. Limited top speed, limited hands, good in-between-the-tackles guy.
But no one in the NFL should be itching to hand him a 4-year $30 million starting RB deal. Not when we saw the seasons of Chris Ivory, Mike Goodson, Ryan Torain, Green-Ellis, Peyton Hillis, Mike Tolbert, and a bunch of other “plug and play” RBs.
Too easy to find a solid RB nowadays to pay big $ for one.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:36 am
I think Bush sees his opportunity here, especially with DMac’s injury history.
Maybe Seattle makes him a big offer. Outside that, I think we have a good chance of re-signing him for #2 RB money. Extends his career.
He’s gotta know there aren’t many teams out there that give a guy 300 carries nowadays.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:36 am
Take care, Will.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:38 am
Theirs no argument, raider fans need CJ to show whose still in charge under 195lbs. Titans still are playing, and I think they will come out with a win. We have 3 months to talk draft quitter.
December 25th, 2010 at 1:47 am
Merry Christmas Nation! Let’s get a win on Sunday…no matter the outcome of the Chefs game!
December 25th, 2010 at 1:56 am
Merry Christmas all! Ciopino was great tonite, Prime Rib tomorrow with snowboarding for Sunday. But Arz game wont matter if we dont handle business like a g6.
December 25th, 2010 at 3:44 am
Merry Christmas!!
December 25th, 2010 at 5:10 am
Have a great Christmas Raider Nation!
If you live within travel distance go to the game tomorrow and make some RAIDER NOISE!!!!!!!!!!
GO RAIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 25th, 2010 at 5:28 am
Merry Christmas NATION!!!!!
Always a pleasure to drop in and hear the wide variety of opinions on our beloved RAIDERS. Even though some of the arguments get way off subject and bizarre I can’t deny the passion and true RAIDER FANDOM on this blog. That’s why I always come back, because I know you guys love the RAIDERS as much as I do!
Merry Christmas to you too Jerry!
Thanks for all you do!
GO RAIDERS!!!!!!
December 25th, 2010 at 5:34 am
Ciopino!!!!
That’s what I am talking about!!
Merry Christmas Raider Nation.
You too Jerry and Mr. Becker.
December 25th, 2010 at 7:07 am
Ia orana no te Noere Raider Nation!
December 25th, 2010 at 8:53 am
Raiders gettin a lil love…
Don’t count us out yet bishes!~
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/nfl/Y_Sports_NFL/23601212;_ylt=Ahg5daBm7LI97PM_NT_lUHlDubYF#nfl/Y_Sports_NFL/23601212
Merry Xmas Nation!~
December 25th, 2010 at 9:31 am
Thirty three years ago my dad and I were at the “Ghost to Post” game in Baltimore.
My dad has since passed away but it still brings back great memories for me this time of year.
I am pleased that we are now getting back to our roots of running and stopping the run. You do that by building the Oline and your defensive front seven.
It is no accident that our return to relevance coincides with our last draft that focused on those areas with our first four picks.
I have been preaching that for the last seven years.
Our biggest need is now defensive tackle.
We use that with our second pick(we do not have a first rounder) and I think we are a playoff team.
Let’s play these last two games with a fury that has not been seen in the last seven years.
I think my dad would be pleased.
Merry Christmas and Go Raiders!
December 25th, 2010 at 9:42 am
Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays!!!!
December 25th, 2010 at 9:51 am
Merry Christmas Raider Nation. Let’s hope Santa brings us a W and bags of coal for the Chargeless and Queefs. Let’s also hush all the talk about next year because this year ISN’T OVER
December 25th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Merry Christmas NATION!
December 25th, 2010 at 9:56 am
Jerry,
Thank you for all your hard work.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays.
December 25th, 2010 at 10:00 am
MERRY CHRISTMAS NATION!!!! whether you celebrate my holiday of choice or not, hope today is a great day for you and yours…..
December 25th, 2010 at 10:01 am
Broncos, colts, whats the difference??? tomorrow we’re gonna ride that donkie
December 25th, 2010 at 10:23 am
Christmas trees!!!!