Part of the Bay Area News Group

Raiders taking on water

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Thursday, May 26th, 2011 at 10:52 am in Oakland Raiders.

No media availability for the remainder of Camp Seymour (a big thank you to correspondent Ben Beitzel for keeping us in the loop) but from various Twitter accounts it appears things are going swimmingly for the Raiders at Competitive Edge Sports.

Today was a day for water workouts, and judging from some of the tweets, it was no day at the beach.

The following were relayed by quarterback Jason Campbell and wide receivers Nick Miller, Darrius Heyward-Bey and Louis Murphy.

Murphy also tweeted a short video which shows players a few players, including Campbell and himself, looking exhausted.

TRAINING CAMP

There have already been reports of teams concerned about their training camp sites and looking at the possibility of having cap at their facilities rather than somewhere else. Many teams, including the 49ers, already have their training camps at the facility.

The Raiders have held their camp on the grounds of Redwood Middle School and been housed at the Napa Marriott since 1996.

As of now, the Raiders are moving forward as if camp will go off as planned in Napa, and there is no word of a deadline where they must let the Marriott know if they’re suddenly going to have a lot of rooms available during late July and early August.

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  • priesttj

    I agree Doc we could all stop tonite but there are sooo many who aren’t even in here to agree.

    Bring this up over the next week on a consistent basis and it might gain some steam.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    I’m not concerned about the lockout having any lasting negative effects on the NFL.

    Football is just way too popular for the fans to stay away for any extended period once the lockout is over with.

    Even if the 2011 season is canceled (which imo has 0 percent chance of happening), this thing will eventually get settled and the fans will return when the NFL resumes. It’ll be business as usual.

    What concerns me, is that the lockout figures to hurt the Raids more than most teams.

    Teams that are changing coaches, implementing new systems and in the process of overhauling their rosters figure to be more damaged than teams with established coaching staffs and more stable rosters.

    Lockout figures to benefit teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Ravens.

    Hope these fools can manage to come to an agreement soon.

    Really looking forward to some Raider football.

  • lefty12

    I said months ago I didn’t think there would be NFL football this year.I still feel the same way.My only hope is the players don’t destroy the league,which it seems is their goal,or I should say their representatives goal.

  • Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    Of course geeks like MR will be in here everyday regardless because he could care less about the Raiders.

    But I for one can find something to do with myself this summer while these billionaires and millionaires enjoy their vacations.

    Go and do likewise, gents.

    BOYCOTT ALL NFL SITES STARTING JUNE 1st.

  • priesttj

    But Doc you have to have a way of communicating to other fans. 5 fans boycotting does nothing you need 10′s of thousands is my point that’s why I said you have set a solid date in the near future so that whole fns bases take part in it. A couple of thousands people will not affect this thing. You have to contact several fan bases to make it affective or else you’re wasting your time.

  • lefty12

    I sure miss Gene Upshaw.He had more sense than the current leadership.You can rest assured he’d be negotiating.

  • Hobs Gnarly

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    If starting on June 1st, ALL NFL web traffic dramatically FELL OFF THE CLIFF – both sides would BE FORCED to pay attention.
    ====================
    Arguably one of the, if not THE dumbest comments on this blog, this year.

    You just have to be one of MR’s numerous handles..you just have to be.

  • Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    Lefty, if you don’t think there will be an NFL season this year,

    with all due respect, why are you here?

  • Hobs Gnarly

    Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Of course geeks like MR will be in here everyday regardless because he could care less about the Raiders.=
    ================
    LOL. Yep, it’s MR.
    How odd that as I’m stating Hunter must be MR, MR pulls one of his usual “it’s definitely me” takes, thinking posters will wonder if it’s really him.

    Change your M.O., MR.
    Too easy.

    And YOU stay away from this blog?
    You’re a loser.
    You live here.
    You have nothing in life except this blog.
    Like Kell, you are disassociated from society, and need this place to feel needed.

    sad, aren’t ya, little man?

  • priesttj

    DeMaurice Smith doesn’t care what happens IMO he jsut wants to make a name for himself.

    lefty12 this is going to be ugly…

  • Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    Don’t listen to me. Listen to the Man.

    Though Goodell sidestepped a couple of issues — the window needed for free agency, most notably — he was refreshingly candid about the damage done by the lockout

    “I think it’s clearly had an impact on our fans,” Goodell said. “You can see that in the various metrics that we have — whether it’s ratings or for traffic on NFL.com. We see that.

    “And that is a reflection on the uncertainty and frustration of our fans. And we all understand that. There are also financial consequences because of that, but clearly — if we’re not successful, that’s clearly to come.”

    Asked as a follow-up if the lockout had affected season-ticket sales, Goodell didn’t hesitate to point out that the respective clubs were all suffering when it came to locking down ticket sales.

    “It clearly has an impact [on season ticket sales],” Goodell said. “Fans want certainty. I don’t think you can ever underestimate — fans are still going through challenges, just in the general economy. And those challenges continue to impact on their decisions. And rightfully so.
    Owners Meetings/Labor News

    Freeman: Players need to accept reality/defeat
    Judge: NFL policing teams that need policing
    Brinson: Rule changes focus on player safety
    Steelers’ Harrison: Rule-makers ‘are idiots’

    And that’s something they have to balance when they want to put down money for a season ticket or a club seat or whatever else. And so we have to keep that in mind. The ownership has been reminded of that during the past couple of days, and they don’t need reminding, because they’re on the front line.”

    Most interesting was Goodell’s response to a request for “specific data” about the impact of the lockout. He seemed absolutely amenable to providing the requested information, if only because it clearly showed the problems that the lockout is causing around the league, from the standpoint of keeping fans interested and generating revenue.

    “It’s a noticeable change,” Goodell said. “I think you guys are aware of it — our ratings were down in the draft for example. Roughly four million people — that’s a noticeable decrease … about a 10 percent decrease as I recall.”

    While no fans want to hear about the revenue that the league, its teams and the players are currently losing, it is a significant point of interest, because money that gets thrown out the window during a labor impasse directly correlates to the difficulty in finding an agreement down the road.

    “The longer it goes the more damage is done to the game and the more revenue’s down and that means less money that can be divided between the parties,” Goodell said.

    Owners were presented the full range of plans for opening weekend, from the first game on Thursday night at Lambeau Field to commemorations of the Sept. 11 attacks on the first full Sunday of games. Those dates are not in jeopardy yet, but the longer the impasse, the more in danger they would become, particularly with the league’s marketing partners, sponsors and advertisers who must commit dollars to those events well in advance.

    “We’re not at an Armageddon date,” Eric Grubman, executive vice president of business operations for the NFL, told the Associated Press. “We’re not staring that in the face this week.”

    But like any event looming on the horizon, the theoretically non-existent drop-dead date isn’t actually that far off. But, apparently, it won’t impact the way Goodell and the NFL head into the next season.

  • Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    Priest. I won’t be here after June 1st.

    It will be up to you guys.

    Go Raiders1

  • aig-raiders

    lefty12 Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    I’m not a legal expert but what is to stop the owners from telling the players to feck off and just implement their own set of rules-in other words,dissolve the league as it is now,free all the current players and start from scratch,and call themselves The Football League of America or something like that.

    ——————-

    Bro, I’m not a lawyer but from what I have read this is how it goes.

    There are some good articles on why the owners will never dissolve the league. PFT has an excellent article on this. Right now, the NFL enjoys the anti-trust exemption. In plain English, that means they are not bound by the laws that 99.9% of companies in the US has to follow. Legally you can’t have a bunch of companies get together and make their own rules or price fixing. That is like being a monopoly and illegal. The only way to do this is by having an anti-trust exemption, which they do have.

    A. Dissolve and form a new league, then they are effed. That means they dont get the anti-trust and will lose in the court.

    B. Right now, there is no contract with the players so dissolving to form a new leauge achieve nothing. They are not legally bound to anything with the players right now anyways.

    C. The only way to make the Dissolve work is to make all 32 teams as 1 big company. This way they are not threatened by a lawsuit and can make any deal they want. Since it is 1 gigantic company they can pretty much dictate their terms. However, that means they have to figure out who gets paid what between the owners and you know it aint ever going to happen.

    Here is a very simple issue with the league. The league wants to the players to take a paycut. The problem is the league is making the most profit ever.

    How can you ask your employee to take a paycut when you are making record profits?

    I doubt any of us would take any type of paycut when we know our employer is making record profits. If the league was losing money, then it makes sense but they are not. Therefore it’s a bad situation for the league to try to do this now.

  • lefty12

    I agree,Priest.I don’t think Smith cares about the league,as you say he just wants to make a name for himself.Hopefully,the players will realize this ,and realize this fast-before it is too late.

  • aig-raiders

    lefty12 Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    I sure miss Gene Upshaw.He had more sense than the current leadership.You can rest assured he’d be negotiating.
    ————-

    I posted earlier that Gene upshaw in 1993 wanted to dissolve the players union too. But the NFL begged him to not do that because they need an organized group to represent and control the players. It’s well documented. Dont blame it on DeSmith. He has a right to his leverages just like the league.

  • aig-raiders

    Here’s the quote from Upshaw himself….

    In the letter, a copy of which was obtained on Thursday by Y! Sports, Upshaw made his position clear: “The players have a right to have a union [and] they also have the right not to be represented by a union. The Eighth Circuit essentially made the players choose between collective bargaining and pursuing their legal right to free agency. That choice has been made and it is final. The NFLPA is no longer a union or a bargaining representative for the players of the NFL.”

  • lefty12

    The league isn’t asking the players to take a cut unless you consider putting in a cap for rookies a cut.They are making record profits but they want to keep it for themselves instead of giving the players more.Supposedly,they want to set that money aside to help build new stadiums-something I really don’t believe,but that is what they say.I believe they also want to make FA more restrictive,which I happen to agree with.FA hasn’t benefited the fans one bit-in fact it has driven up costs so much that the average fan can’t afford to attend games any more.

  • http://www.pro-football-reference.com/ KoolKell

    TerrapinRaider Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    Anyway, today’s society has been brainwashed with Keysianan ecomonimcs …most colleges teach it. Colleges today are simply watered down, poor quality, manufacturers of use dribble.
    ————————————————————————

    So anybody with a 6th grade education or higher, can’t be trusted?

  • lefty12

    As an ex-player Upshaw cared about the league.Smith doesn’t.Upshaw got a deal,Smith,if successful,will ruin the league.

  • aig-raiders

    agreed Lefty.

    The problem is the players say ok the money you take from the rookies must go toward another area for the players like veterans. But the problem is you cannot ask anyone to take a paycut when you are making record profits! I dont know of anyone of us on here that would take a paycut if our employer is making record profits. Aint going to happen….ever.

  • aig-raiders

    Oh and on top of that they want them to play 2 extra games. So not only are they asking them to take a paycut, they are asking them to work more hours….while the owners are making record profits.

    I find it hard that any players would be willing to accept that.

  • lefty12

    Well,the only way the players will get concessions is through negotiations and right now,they are the ones who refuse to negotiate.While I agree the money saved from a rookie cap should go to the players,I also know the owners will cancel the season and IMO,it will be the players representatives fault.They both make plenty,so I don’t care who ‘wins’,I want a settlement and if one side has to give in,so be it.

  • lefty12

    The 18 game schedule is nothing but a negotiating ploy.Why should the owners really care if there are 2 more games?You have to but tickets to the practice games now if you want to buy season tickets.You think the owners don’t realize they’d have to pay larger contracts if they expanded to 18 games?

  • aig-raiders

    Trust me. There WILL be a season. You dont park a multi billion dollar industry. From a personal perspective, any settlement is cool with me. However, I dont think the players will budge from a negotiating perspective.

  • aig-raiders

    2 extra regular season games equal more TV money Lefty. TV money right now far out weighs any ticket sales.

  • lefty12

    THE PLAYERS AREN’T NEGOTIATING.That is the problem.If they really wanted more games,they could expand the play-offs-it is a ploy-something they can say-”look,we’ll take that off the table if you give us this”.Not trying to be a smart a$$,but have you ever been in on any negotiations?It’s amazing what each side will ask for KNOWING full well there isn’t a chance in hell they will get it.

  • aig-raiders

    I’ve done enough negotiations in my career. Again, the problem is the owners want to take the money away with more work but the players say we just want the same deal. That’s why it has been so hard. The players say they want the same deal but the owners say fat chance, take less and work more.

    It boils down to the court making a ruling either way. Once the ruling is done, we know one side will lose and will have to negotiate.

  • lefty12

    You don’t see a problem with the rookie wage scale the way it is now?You believe it is ok for a guy coming out of college who may or may not be any good to get paid a higher wage than a guy who has proven himself and been in the league a few years?You think due to financial ramifications it is ok for an unproven rookie to set a team back years?

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    Why not just get rid of the draft altogether? I mean, really. A draft? Where teams basically pick the best college players one at a time, like a game of old maid? How capitalist is that? Let the players play where they choose to play. Let the owners compete. If one doesn’t have money, sell to someone who does. Or face nonstop scrutiny from your city and fans. These owners want everyone else to fend for themselves, but they want a safety net.

  • aig-raiders

    @ Lefty,
    I think everyone including the Vets agree the rookie wage scale needs to be fixed. The issue is putting that money back in the owners pocket or passing it on to the vets.

    @Mr.
    The Draft is definitely anti-American business practice. If the court ruling goes badly against the players then expect DeSmith to pull the nuclear trigger and de-union.

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    Why should the players negotiate? They’re locked out! They’ll negotiate when the current contract is up. In the mean time, the owners need to stop playing games and take these locks off of the gates.

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    You can say decertify, AIG. I know what it means.

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    Lefty, it’s very simple. If an unproven player out of college is demanding more than what a team thinks he’s worth, then the team shouldn’t pay him! It’s really that simple. Just don’t pay him. If you think a player would draw such a hard line, don’t draft him in the first place. Unless you plan on using him for trade bait, a la SD with Eli. Ball’s entirely in your court, in that case. But if you want the guy ,he’d better want to play on your team, too. Why should players have to play for teams they don’t want to play for? It’s a business, isn’t it? Al Davis is merely an owner, right? Just like the guy who runs the deli down the street. It’s his business. Well, when it comes to employees, it’s their skills. And they should be allowed to shop those skills anywhere on the free market they like, right? Why do you only want liberty for the owners, but slavery for the players?

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    Ok, sorry to get all deep. Slavery’s not the right word. But liberty sure as heck is. People like JHill want liberty for the owners, but not for the players. They want the players to be forced in to awful, potentially career ruining franchises. Not right.

  • aig-raiders

    Mr,

    I have two words to describe your post in 584….Malcom X used to call them the H N. If you google it, you’ll know the description fits perfectly. The brother is just a little confused that’s all.

  • ENGLANDRAIDER

    539.Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
    The Raiders can’t afford a shortened season.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s a very true statement. This strike (?) is really going to hurt the Raiders at a time when the team is struggling economically.

  • ENGLANDRAIDER

    540.priesttj Says:
    May 27th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
    Lefty12 I have to agree with Doc here. Fans just have no idea how much power they have if they organize.

    After all it’s OUR money they’re arguing over…

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    That’s also very true Priest. It IS our money they’re arguing over.
    I also agree with Lefty, the players should quit the court shenanigans and go back to the negotiation table.
    Let’s get this season going!

  • ENGLANDRAIDER

    There’s a great game on today at 11:45 am California time:
    Manchester United (the best team in England) playing Barcelona (maybe the best team in the world) in the Champions League Final.

    I realize it’s not the NFl (hell, it’s not even rugby) but it’s a pretty big event worldwide.

  • TerrapinRaider

    Very interesting points made last night w/ AIG and Lefty12. Good stuff.

  • J Hill

    aig-raiders Says:
    May 28th, 2011 at 12:06 am

    Mr,

    I have two words to describe your post in 584….Malcom X used to call them the H N.

    ——————————————————

    This just gets funnier and funnier.

    Now we have the Asian guy calling someone a House N*gg*????

    Yesterday I was riding with Al Sharpton, lol.

    Which one is it?

    Late night babble session with MR, lol! Friday night, holiday weekend???

    LMFAO!

  • Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    You will not be able to stay home, brother.
    You will not be able to plug in, turn on and cop out.
    You will not be able to lose yourself on skag and skip,
    Skip out for beer during commercials,
    Because the revolution will not be televised.

    The revolution will not be televised.
    The revolution will not be brought to you by Xerox
    In 4 parts without commercial interruptions.
    The revolution will not show you pictures of Nixon
    blowing a bugle and leading a charge by John
    Mitchell, General Abrams and Spiro Agnew to eat
    hog maws confiscated from a Harlem sanctuary.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    The revolution will not be brought to you by the
    Schaefer Award Theatre and will not star Natalie
    Woods and Steve McQueen or Bullwinkle and Julia.
    The revolution will not give your mouth sex appeal.
    The revolution will not get rid of the nubs.
    The revolution will not make you look five pounds
    thinner, because the revolution will not be televised, Brother.

    There will be no pictures of you and Willie May
    pushing that shopping cart down the block on the dead run,
    or trying to slide that color television into a stolen ambulance.
    NBC will not be able predict the winner at 8:32
    or report from 29 districts.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
    brothers in the instant replay.
    There will be no pictures of pigs shooting down
    brothers in the instant replay.
    There will be no pictures of Whitney Young being
    run out of Harlem on a rail with a brand new process.
    There will be no slow motion or still life of Roy
    Wilkens strolling through Watts in a Red, Black and
    Green liberation jumpsuit that he had been saving
    For just the proper occasion.

    Green Acres, The Beverly Hillbillies, and Hooterville
    Junction will no longer be so damned relevant, and
    women will not care if Dick finally gets down with
    Jane on Search for Tomorrow because Black people
    will be in the street looking for a brighter day.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    There will be no highlights on the eleven o’clock
    news and no pictures of hairy armed women
    liberationists and Jackie Onassis blowing her nose.
    The theme song will not be written by Jim Webb,
    Francis Scott Key, nor sung by Glen Campbell, Tom
    Jones, Johnny Cash, Englebert Humperdink, or the Rare Earth.
    The revolution will not be televised.

    The revolution will not be right back after a message
    bbout a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.
    You will not have to worry about a dove in your
    bedroom, a tiger in your tank, or the giant in your toilet bowl.
    The revolution will not go better with Coke.
    The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.
    The revolution will put you in the driver’s seat.

    The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised,
    will not be televised, will not be televised.
    The revolution will be no re-run brothers;
    The revolution will be live.

    RIP GIL SCOTT HERON.

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    Liberty to the owners. Crumbs to the labor, regardless of their skill or demand. That’s the argument being made by NFL fans who support management in the CBA.

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    Let NFL owners survive on their own like other businesses. No profit sharing. No safety net. No draft. Skilled football players, regardless of experience, should be allowed to negotiate with whoever they feel.

  • aig-raiders

    Hill,

    This Asian dude actually spent a semester at San Jose State doing a research paper on Malcom X, his life and ideas. I have read cover to cover the autobiography of Malcom X by Alex Haley which has a 4.5 stars rating on Amazon right now. I am certainly more qualified than you to talk about Malcom X. WTF have you ever done on researching Malcom other than hearing it from the TV and word of mouth.

    The fact that you are squirming will only confirm to me that the shoe certainly fits in Malcom’s description of the House Negro vs the Field Negro.

    The Field Negro worked and fought his rears off so that his future children can pursue the American Dream just like the other Americans. Why can’t the current NFL Players have the right to market their talent to the highest bidder of his services? That is the American Dream, isn’t it?

    As quoted by Malcom….If the master’s house caught on fire, the house Negro would fight harder to put the blaze out than the master would. If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, “What’s the matter, boss, we sick?” We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself.

  • http://www.cnn.com RAIDER

    JHill, I work nights and weekends, including this weekend. You probably posted that comment from the playboy grotto, right?

  • aig-raiders

    Owners Vs Players.

    1. People hate the Unions and certainly blame it on the Players Union. But isn’t the NFL itself a Union? I challenge any of you to tell me with substance why the NFL itself is not a Union.

    2. It has been well documented that the NFL WANTS a players Union.

    3. Who went to the nuclear option here? Did the players strike or did the owners strike? The owners shut the doors and planned for this by asking for TV networks to guarantee them money regardless of a season or not. So again, who went to the nuclear option.

    4. In 1993 labor agreement, the owners agreed to allow the players to decertify the union if they choose to do so “up on or after the expiration of the CBA”. The only thing the current owners are challenging is that the players were required to decertify “at the time of the cba expiration or thereafter”. The current owners are fighting a loop hole with the court saying the players decertified a few hours before the expiration. So the owners are trying to win in court by using the “a few hours” legal loop hole.

    5. Name me 1 industry or company in this country’s history that asked their employees to take a pay cut and work more hours while the industry is raking in RECORD profits? Name 1 pls.

    It is so obvious to me who is in the wrong here but people kept on beating up the players. Dont the players have the right to go to the highest bidder of their talent just like anyone of us in the real world? Isn’t that the very essence of the American Dream?

    SMH

  • Hobs Gnarly

    Wassup Aig?
    Saw you comment bout how you asian geeks are doing well in this economy?
    As I recall, you proudly stated you don’t work. You are a stay at home dad, while your wife works.
    Hence you commenting about “taking off to gym” now, while most are working.
    I don’t think you represent the typical hard working asian, do you?
    Dropping off kids at school, and picking them up is hardly taxing.

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