Jackson talks about 4-3 vs. 3-4 defensive scheme
By Steve Corkran
Wednesday, December 21st, 2011 at 2:54 pm in Oakland Raiders.
There is plenty of speculation about whether the Raiders might convert to a 3-4 defensive scheme next season. On Wednesday, coach Hue Jackson fueled the fire by confirming that he isn’t averse to switching schemes.
“I am not wedded to anything,” Jackson said, when asked if he is a staunch proponent of the 4-3. “I am wedded to what’s going to help us win. As we continue to move forward, that’s the whole thing about everything you do – you have an opportunity to see what’s there, and you move forward and get better.
“I’m not going t stand pat and be like we’ve been, whether it’s offense, defense or special teams. I am going to always look to make this team and this organization better as long as I am here. Obviously, there are some areas we have to shore up and get better in and, I guarantee you, we will get better at them.”
The Raiders last ran the 3-4 in 2004, when Rob Ryan was the defensive coordinator. As we all know, that was a disaster from the outset.
Warren Sapp flopped in his conversion from defensive tackle to defensive end. The Raiders failed to get much pressure on the quarterback. End of experiment. Ryan switched back to the 4-3 in 2005.
Jackson will get another look at the 3-4 on Saturday, when the Raiders play a Kansas City Chiefs team coached by defensive-minded Romeo Crennel.
Crennel started as a 4-3 guy, but he converted to the 3-4 after spending time with former coach Bill Parcells. He said he “latched” on to the scheme because of the versatility it allows.
“If you have the right people to play it, it can be pretty effective because the end of the line linebackers are the adjusters and you don’t have to take an inside linebacker and walk him out. In today’s game where they try to spread you out all the time and get linebackers to walk out, it’s easier for us. Plus, the offenses have to determine which guy has to rush, and that’s not always an easy determination for them.”
As Crennel said, the key is having the right personnel. The Raiders didn’t have it in 2004, and they might not have all the pieces right now.
Yet, reading between the lines, Jackson intends to make some changes in the offseason and some of those just might be to address a change in schemes.
MCFADDEN, FORD SORE
Running back Darren McFadden and wide receiver Jacoby Ford sat out today because of the residual effect from their workout with a team trainer Tuesday, Jackson said.
“They did OK (Tuesday) but they are a little sore today,” Jackson said. “We’ll see where they are tomorrow and then we’ll know more. They ran quite a bit yesterday, and they were on it pretty good.”
Neither McFadden nor Ford was available during the media-access period, so we can’t provide their take on where they stand in relation to a possible return for Saturday’s game.
The fact Jackson said free safety Michael Huff (hamstring) needs to practice Thursday if he is to play Saturday, that likely holds true for McFadden, Ford and defensive tackle John Henderson.
PRYOR UPDATE
Every week, I get asked numerous questions about rookie quarterback Terrelle Pryor. Is he going to play? Why doesn’t Jackson put him in late in one-sided games? How does he look in practice?
Well, I took many of those questions to Pryor in an attempt to provide some insight into a player who missed almost all of training camp after arriving via the supplemental draft in late August, served a five-game suspension to start the season and has spent most of his time watching veterans Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller and Carson Palmer in practice.
“I’m coming along well,” Pryor said. “I’m really getting used to the speed of the game from the defensive perspective of getting in on me. It’s getting better. I can’t really complain. I just got to wait.”
That doesn’t mean Pryor can’t spend his time gleaning information from three veterans, as well as offensive coordinator Al Saunders and Jackson.
Pryor finally is at the point where he feels comfortable with the offense, and he is ready to put into action the things he has learned the past four months or so.
“I can say the plays and I got everything down,” Pryor said. “I know the protections. It took me about two or three months. It was frustrating because I didn’t get to hit the ground running. It took me awhile to catch up because I didn’t start from Day One. But now, I’m ready to go.”
It’s unlikely that Pryor will play Saturday against the Kansas City Chiefs or in the regular-season finale against the San Diego Chargers on Jan. 1. He has played one down so far, when he motioned from a wide receiver position to the quarterback on a fourth-and-one play.
Alas, he got called for a false-start penalty and hasn’t played again. For now, Pryor said he is eager to have an entire offseason so that he can get a chance to show Jackson, his teammates and Raiders fans what he can do once he gets a chance to play.
“I just can’t wait to start when everybody starts equal so I can have a chance to get some reps and get some plays in,” Pryor said. “That’s all I’m looking forward to, just playing. I want to show the city what I got and help the team as much as I can.”
NO SYMPATHY FROM CHIEFS
People are quick to point to injuries to Darren McFadden, Jason Campbell, Jacoby Ford, Denarius Moore, and others, as the reason the Raiders are 7-7 and long-shots to make the AFC Playoffs.
At least they had those players healthy for more than one game this season. The Chiefs lost starting tight end Tony Moeaki during training camp, starting safety Eric Berry in the regular-season opener, lead running back Jamaal Charles in the second game and quarterback Matt Cassel more than a month ago.
“It definitely hurts but everybody loses people in the NFL,” Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel said Wednesday in a conference call. “That’s part of the business we’re in. We have to overcome, and you try to overcome, the best that you can.”
The Chiefs also are dealing with a quarterback change for the second time this season, the recent firing of coach Todd Haley and an 0-3 start.
Yet, through it all, the Chiefs are very much alive in terms of the playoffs picture. Crennel said the Chiefs can’t look past the Raiders.
“Strange things happen in the NFL, particularly this year, because of the offseason and training camp, the way it was set up,” Crennel said. “We’re just fortunate to be in the position we’re in. If it turns out that we can make it, we would love that. But we can’t look beyond the Raider game because if we don’t do anything in that one, then it doesn’t make any difference.”
AMAZING … BUT TRUE
Darrius Heyward-Bey is within reach of his first 1,000-yard season. Perhaps more surprising, the Raiders haven’t had a 1,000-yard receiver since Randy Moss rolled for 1,005 in 2005.
Heyward-Bey is at 775 yards through 14 games. He needs to average 112.5 yards in Oakland’s final two games to reach the magical mark for the first time in his three-year NFL career.
PALMER GETS ANOTHER SHOT AT CHIEFS
Palmer’s first game as a Raider came in relief of Boller against the Chiefs on Oct. 23. The Raiders trailed 21-0 at that point and ended up losing 28-0.
Palmer played despite arriving five days earlier and knowing about 10 percent of the playbook, by his estimation. The results were predictable. Palmer was intercepted three times and looked out of synch.
Chiefs cornerback Brandon Flowers intercepted Palmer and returned it for a touchdown. He said Wednesday that Palmer is a much differen player today.
“They look more polished,” Flowers said. “Carson Palmer had time to get his timing routes down with the receivers, you could see they’re really starting to jell as an offense and you can tell the chemistry is starting to come along. Rather than when Carson Palmer played the first time, he got in, it was like he was just trying to play backyard football.”
Palmer said playing that game won’t give him much of an edge, if any, come Saturday.
“I’m not taking much from that game,” Palmer said. “They’re a different team. We’re a different offense now. Personnel-wise, I guess, it helps a little bit, but they’re playing a little bit differently now, and we’re definitely playing a little bit differently. And it’s in their environment.”
Follow me on Twitter: @corkonthenfl
[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]
December 21st, 2011 at 2:55 pm
MistaBrown Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
KK Munster just because I’ve had more blk women than you dont be a hater old man
————————————-
????????????????
December 21st, 2011 at 2:57 pm
KK Munster, I thought you are a worldly intelligent guy so why all the question marks, are you that dumb ?
December 21st, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Hue, all you should be talking about is a new DC and why Bres was hired in the first place.
The end
December 21st, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Hue isn’t “wedded” to anything other than low % deep passes down the stretch of close games, and funky reverses to backup TE’s, FB’s and #5 WR’s.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:00 pm
The Raiders last ran the 3-4 in 2004, when Rob Ryan was the defensive coordinator. As we all know, that was a disaster from the outset.
Warren Sapp flopped in his conversion from defensive tackle to defensive end. The Raiders failed to get much pressure on the quarterback. End of experiment. Ryan switched back to the 4-3 in 2005.
+++++++++++++++
Heck, I think we switched back to 4-3 after about 5 or 6 games in 2004 didn’t we?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:01 pm
MistaBrown Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 2:58 pm
Hue, all you should be talking about is a new DC and why Bres was hired in the first place.
The end
———————————
Bres was hired by Al Davis, dummy.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:02 pm
Jamista clown did you get fired as Newt’s only supporter?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:03 pm
A- You dont know that.
B- I dont care.
C- Al is not here to speak on it, you imbecile.
______
KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:01 pm
Bres was hired by Al Davis, dummy.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Heck, I think we switched back to 4-3 after about 5 or 6 games in 2004 didn’t we?
************************
Not sure, but on Halloween 2004, we were in San Diego and we were still running it. I was at the game, near the sideline when Sapp was screaming at Norv Turner.
Norv Turner getting stomped in San Diego with his team’s chemisty in shambles. Some things don’t change do they?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:04 pm
Who didn’t know hiring Bresnahan was a mistake?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:05 pm
Peymour Bish,
Since you made one of the dumbest commenst I’ve ever seen here Lechler keeps dropping punts inside the 15 !
Everything you say blows up in your face, you are better off petting your cat or talking about communist economics.
______
“Lechler isn’t a “placement kicker”
-Seymour Bush
December 21st, 2011 at 3:07 pm
BrownStains
Have you been invited out for X-mas dinner anywhere?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:07 pm
Dear Santa:
(Where the hell have you been all year?)
All I want for Christmas is to beat the Chiefs and the Chargers.
Let’s face it, kiddo, you owe the Raider Nation. And, we have been waiting a long time.
qodrn
P.S. If you want to do something extra, how about fixing some feet? Thanks.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:09 pm
Bresnahan got the job by default we aggressively went after Darren Perry in Green bay and Dennis Thurman (Jets) in the off season and got stymied on both coaches.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:11 pm
“Have you been invited out for X-mas dinner anywhere?”
believe it or not KK not everyone celebrates Xmas there are a lot of atheists in California who might be sick of having this particular holiday crammed down their throats every year.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Oakland was #11 in total defense last year. But they fired that guy for Chuck Bresnahan.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:15 pm
I thought John Marshall was a good DC, and our D was more creative than I had seen it in quite some time.
Than we get the blessing of Chuck B part 2
December 21st, 2011 at 3:15 pm
Arrowhead is a tough venue to play in, but raiders have fared well there the last couple of years.
I expect nothing less than a full out effort on the raiders part, if thats not the case, they should start firing coaches.
This is the must win game of the year.
This is the game were we get some payback for those cheap shots that the chiefs threw at Palmer.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:15 pm
Silverandblack666 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:11 pm
“Have you been invited out for X-mas dinner anywhere?”
believe it or not KK not everyone celebrates Xmas there are a lot of atheists in California who might be sick of having this particular holiday crammed down their throats every year.
————————————–
I was talking to BrownStains, don’t know why you butted in. I certainly don’t expect you at any X-mas parties.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:19 pm
JFB good luck this weekend in your bid to be the FF champion!
December 21st, 2011 at 3:21 pm
John Marshall and his creative self came up with the 5 safety defense that I despise to this day. Cost us the Miami and Jags game in the middle of a playoff run.
We got effed over by not being allowed to hire our 2 primary targets like 666 said.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Fact:
Oakland was #11 in total defense last year. But they fired that guy for Chuck Bresnahan.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:24 pm
“no more man to man, switch to zone!” We saw zone last week….now “switch to a 3-4 no more 4-3….” saw that movie already with rob ryan…cant wait for that disaster…
December 21st, 2011 at 3:25 pm
666SeymourGlen, it’s just a stupid question by KK Munster that I wouldn’t even bother responding too. Why you did is beyond me but its cool…
_____
Silverandblack666 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:11 pm
“Have you been invited out for X-mas dinner anywhere?”
believe it or not KK not everyone celebrates Xmas there are a lot of atheists in California who might be sick of having this particular holiday crammed down their throats every year.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:26 pm
“We got effed over by not being allowed to hire our 2 primary targets like 666 said.”
If memory serves me I think both teams would not even allow us to interview those guys.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Oakland was #11 in total defense last year. But they fired that guy for Chuck Bresnahan. Now we’re #27. Fact.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:27 pm
All BS aside, the Oakland Raiders would be a 4 loss team this season, tops, if John Marshall was still the DC.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:27 pm
KK Munster, I dont talk about going to Christmas parties, or my trips to switzerland, or post a link to my job loaded with a pic that was taken 20 years ago with a Eddie Munster hairline, or advertise pics of my wife sporting a bowl cut on this blog
Only you are dumb enough to do all that sh!t, ignoramus.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:29 pm
“666SeymourGlen, it’s just a stupid question by KK Munster that I wouldn’t even bother responding too. Why you did is beyond me but its cool…”
The perception is that everyone is all into Xmas and that their lives revolve around the holiday but reality is that some people do not celebrate the holiday.
I didn’t think KK had the brain power to process that kind of information but I did think that some here on this blog would understand.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:29 pm
John David Booty Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:27 pm
All BS aside, the Oakland Raiders would be a 4 loss team this season, tops, if John Marshall was still the DC.
———————————–
Dammit, that was my next question.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:30 pm
I will say that I doubt Boyd, Mitchell, and McClain would be defending Johnson if Marshall was still here.
Marshall’s contract was up.
We had a new head coach.
The new head coach was allowed to go after his own guy.
Pretty simple.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:32 pm
KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 2:55 pm
MistaBrown Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 2:52 pm
KK Munster just because I’ve had more blk women than you dont be a hater old man
======================
Why in GOD’S NAME to people start a F$%KING football thread with personal BULLSCHIT!?
Lets go NATION, comment on the season , football ANYTHING,
Trollism….its the new personal hygiene product.
For TEBOW’s sake!
December 21st, 2011 at 3:33 pm
I am sure there will be changes in the off season I can only hope that a GM hire will be first.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:34 pm
J Hill Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:30 pm
I will say that I doubt Boyd, Mitchell, and McClain would be defending Johnson if Marshall was still here.
Marshall’s contract was up.
We had a new head coach.
The new head coach was allowed to go after his own guy.
Pretty simple.
———————————–
Marshall Was Fired!
Al Davis brought back Chuck Bresnahan.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:34 pm
Nice backhand at DHB Cork. Never miss a chance to take a shot.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:35 pm
KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:23 pm
Fact:
Oakland was #11 in total defense last year. But they fired that guy for Chuck Bresnahan.
=================
That’s better. It’s likely they didn’t want Bresnahan, since Thurman was Jackson’s first choice, and Rex Ryan was the choice before Rob Ryan, and they Ravens denied them both times. By the time the “Winston Moss” as head coach rumors came along they didnt have the personnel for 3-4 (although Wimbley played it at Cleveland with mixed results)
December 21st, 2011 at 3:35 pm
The Chiefs lost starting tight end Tony Moeaki during training camp, starting safety Eric Berry in the regular-season opener, lead running back Jamaal Charles in the second game and quarterback Matt Cassel more than a month ago.
***
BCZ,
you listening?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:37 pm
Just Fire Baby Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:03 pm
Heck, I think we switched back to 4-3 after about 5 or 6 games in 2004 didn’t we?
************************
Not sure, but on Halloween 2004, we were in San Diego and we were still running it. I was at the game, near the sideline when Sapp was screaming at Norv Turner.
Norv Turner getting stomped in San Diego with his team’s chemisty in shambles. Some things don’t change do they?
================
Norv and Chargers sure broke out a whooping stick on the Ravens, though ..didnt they?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:38 pm
Heyward-Bey is at 775 yards through 14 games. He needs to average 112.5 yards in Oakland’s final two games to reach the magical mark for the first time in his three-year NFL career
***
King Darrius!
December 21st, 2011 at 3:40 pm
RaiderSam
They fired Marshall right off the bat. The best Raider D in years.
I understand they couldn’t get anybody else but Chuck Bresnahan. Why fire Marshall?
Last year #11
This year back to our customary #27
December 21st, 2011 at 3:41 pm
Munster, no more stupid questions about trailer parks or christmas parties, right ? Because guys your age dont really engage in tha junk mostly 15yr olds do that, yeah?
December 21st, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Silverandblack666 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:33 pm
I am sure there will be changes in the off season I can only hope that a GM hire will be first.
==========
Count on it. Saw Madden overseeing the game, likely he is getting a look at specific positions to upgrade. Only problem , as with every year…no GM is in place, and the Combine is in February, so they’ll have to hit the ground running. Hopefully, they consider character, football IQ, leadership, intensity – more Brian Cushing types and Louis Delmas-Ed Reed types
a lot of “jokesters” on sidelines like Boyd. i read on Pro Football Weekly; Once Raider (anonymously) said “Gruden wouldve cut the guy the next day….Jackson is fearful of “losing” the locker room, and they are taking advantage of that.”
December 21st, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Norv and Chargers sure broke out a whooping stick on the Ravens, though ..didnt they?
——————
What sucks is that Rivers is having his worst season EVER and he is still in the hunt for the division. The Chokers now have something to play for when we face them at the end of the year … Fck the Chokers and Rivers. Stupid Hue Jackson !
December 21st, 2011 at 3:44 pm
Jesus Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:42 pm
Norv and Chargers sure broke out a whooping stick on the Ravens, though ..didnt they?
——————
What sucks is that Rivers is having his worst season EVER and he is still in the hunt for the division. The Chokers now have something to play for when we face them at the end of the year … Fck the Chokers and Rivers. Stupid Hue Jackson !
========
You have every right to be angry. It was there for the taking…set up perfectly, and Jackson just couldn’t reach these guys or they lacked the focus….they have to rally when guys are injured, and haven’t …until last Sunday , and it may be too late.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:45 pm
“They look more polished,” Flowers said. “Carson Palmer had time to get his timing routes down with the receivers, you could see they’re really starting to jell as an offense and you can tell the chemistry is starting to come along. Rather than when Carson Palmer played the first time, he got in, it was like he was just trying to play backyard football.”
***
trade Rolando McClain for Danny Clark!
(released by the Saints on August 10)
hasn’t played a down for anybody all season.
backyard football, baby!
December 21st, 2011 at 3:46 pm
a lot of “jokesters” on sidelines like Boyd. i read on Pro Football Weekly; Once Raider (anonymously) said “Gruden wouldve cut the guy the next day….Jackson is fearful of “losing” the locker room, and they are taking advantage of that.”
—–
Do you really want Hue looking for another safety or would you rather he prepare for the Chiefs
December 21st, 2011 at 3:47 pm
Jesus can we both agree on a push regarding our bet?
Neither of us was right we both lost.
Happy Holidays to you.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:52 pm
Jesus can we both agree on a push regarding our bet?
Neither of us was right we both lost.
Happy Holidays to you.
—————————–
Its a push fasho… I really was hoping you would win.
I could not watch the game because of Tebow. Had to keep refreshing ESPN online for play updates , made me sick to my stomach. Megatron 48 yrds,Megatron 26 yrds , Routt PI , OMG I almost cried !
Anyway Happy Holidays 2 you and your fam !
December 21st, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Count on it. Saw Madden overseeing the game, likely he is getting a look at specific positions to upgrade. Only problem , as with every year…no GM is in place, and the Combine is in February, so they’ll have to hit the ground running.
———————————-
Reggie McKenzie won’t be available until February.
December 21st, 2011 at 3:57 pm
You got to love Huey and his guarantees.
Didn’t Huey guarantee the Raiders would win the AFC West this year?
December 21st, 2011 at 4:00 pm
If we got Harbaugh do you think we are 13-3 this year or is having Chuck B. that much of HANDICAP ?
December 21st, 2011 at 4:01 pm
I think that’s huejackcity’s first presser with out using the phrase “at the end of the day,..”
December 21st, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Glad to see Hue talking about the 3-4 defense.
All the best defensive teams run the 3-4.
We need to switch to it as soon as possible.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:05 pm
Didn’t Huey guarantee he would fix the penalty problem?
December 21st, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Trolls gona troll.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
If we weren’t on pace to set a new NFL record for penalties for a single season, I think this team would be better than 7-7.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:13 pm
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 4:09 pm
If we weren’t on pace to set a new NFL record for penalties for a single season, I think this team would be better than 7-7.
———————————–
That too.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:14 pm
If we weren’t on pace to set a new NFL record for penalties for a single season, I think this team would be better than 7-7.
=——————————
Atleast they are breaking some kind of record …
December 21st, 2011 at 4:21 pm
Besides everything that went wrong sunday,lil wiz didn’t get credit for dominating suh.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:25 pm
How can Jackson say he is surprised by the pathetic performance of the defensive unit? Year-in, year-out the D sucks. We have a bunch of projects and overpaid average players on D, plus uber-imbecil Chuky B is designing and calling the plays….I would be very surprised if the Defense DID NOT suck!
December 21st, 2011 at 4:26 pm
16.KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:12 pm
Oakland was #11 in total defense last year. But they fired that guy for Chuck Bresnahan.
^^^^^^
Yep! Terrible. The big mistake of the off season to let Marshall walk without a set plan to hire someobe better than him to take over.
That mistake will most likely cost this team a shot at the playoffs.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:32 pm
http://www.playoffstatus.com/nfl/raidersclinch.html
December 21st, 2011 at 4:33 pm
We’re 0-3 since McClain incident.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:34 pm
61,Youre Right,as Simple as that.Sad,but that said,miracles do happen,win out,and Chuckie B has the FLU,we get DLine coach or Woodson to cover,Its all Good RAIDERS
December 21st, 2011 at 4:39 pm
Can anyone compile our record in prevent-type situations, like the situation Sunday, between the time Ron Wolf was here and the time since he’s left?
December 21st, 2011 at 4:43 pm
Sully,that may take some time,HELLO
December 21st, 2011 at 4:46 pm
Our personnel isn’t too far away right now from being able to run a 3-4.
NT: Henderson (all we have unfortunately)
DE: Bryant, Houston, Kelly, Seymour
ILB: McClain, Curry
OLB: Wimbley, Groves, Scott, Shaughnessy (maybe)
December 21st, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Steve definetley comes up with new topics and questions for Hue by reading this blog! lol
December 21st, 2011 at 4:48 pm
Skully, just ask your secretary to do it.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:51 pm
LIsten to me now, if we play that zone D sh*t against Orton and KC, they will eat us alive and end our season.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:52 pm
68. Of course he does. Steve has nowhere near the insight Jerry does. No where near.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:53 pm
Bagged an American From Ohio last night.. Made her call me T. PRYOR. …GOTTA LOVE XMAS.
Team wise, Shouldnt Hue know who can an cannot return punts, and who has that skill set, ill bet all of us were aware Tyvon returned kicks in college
December 21st, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Mamba is spot on.
Hue $ucks!
Just Win Baby.
December 21st, 2011 at 4:58 pm
Team wise, Shouldnt Hue know who can an cannot return punts, and who has that skill set, ill bet all of us were aware Tyvon returned kicks in college
———————————–
Should he be returning kicks? He is our best defensive player. Don’t want to lose him to injury as well…
December 21st, 2011 at 4:58 pm
73. Hes a little busy and why consider your top safety, nay, top defenisve player period as your kick returner?
Aren’t they thin as he-ll in the szecondary anyway?
Putting Branch in there was stupoid and should get someones azz fired.
Thats why you’ll see McCann returning kicks or anyone else not named Tyvon unless Hue gets all desperate gamblery
December 21st, 2011 at 5:03 pm
Hue’s a bigger gambler than Kenny Rogers ! ” Hue gotta know when to hold em ,know when to fold em ,know when to walk away , know when to run ” and know when to FIRE CHUCK B !
December 21st, 2011 at 5:03 pm
I agree with Jesus and GoodOle00, Huey should be fired immediately.
Just Win Baby.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:05 pm
Speaking of gambling, who drafted JaMarcus Russell over Megatron again?
December 21st, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Speaking of gambling, who drafted JaMarcus Russell over Megatron again?
—————————-
Lane Kiffin ??? LOL
December 21st, 2011 at 5:07 pm
@74 and @75
Relax fella’s did i say he should put him back there??
Im saying as coach of the team he should know his players skill sets.. no??
a little busy??
pull the other one..
December 21st, 2011 at 5:07 pm
And, a sure handed receiver is something we’re missing. That’s undoubtedly on Hue’s off season agenda. A possession WR, and an entire secondary.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:08 pm
77. RMR trying to pass himself off as the Doctor. Sly I agree technique nut job
December 21st, 2011 at 5:08 pm
Jesus Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:07 pm
Speaking of gambling, who drafted JaMarcus Russell over Megatron again?
—————————-
Lane Kiffin ??? LOL
……….
“He’s a great player. Get over it.” – Al
December 21st, 2011 at 5:09 pm
Feeling good knowing what your xmases are like
December 21st, 2011 at 5:09 pm
The thing about the 3-4 is that the switch benefits an aging Richard Seymour, a marginal player in Rolando McClain, and maybe Trevor Scott.
Wimbley has the same limitations in a 3-4 as he does in a 4-3 (just ask Browns fans), and has actually been a better fit in a 4-3 because of his versatility.
The rest of the roster? Curry is not an ideal 4-3 fit, as he never was much of a pass-rusher. Nor are TK, Shaughnessy, Bryant, Houston (3-4 DE might be an option, but his natural position is 4-3 3-tech DT). The Raiders would need to find a way to get, at the very least, a big-time NT as well as another legit 3-4 OLB.
And even then, there’s no guarantee that they will stop the run. Bills, Jets, Redskins, Cardinals, Packers… all teams that gave up their fair share of rushing yards this season.
It’s more important to find a DC with a plan, who can work with the personnel the Raiders already have. There’s no guarantee that they’re going to be able to lure in the new pieces they need, no matter which system they’re running. So they might as well have a coach who, if worse comes to worst, can make the most out of what’s already available to him.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:11 pm
“He’s a great player. Get over it.” – Al
———————–
I know MR ,just wanted to get you to actually write Als name …
December 21st, 2011 at 5:12 pm
I think Hue was a good soldier when Al was still with us. As soon as Al died, Hue changed. After the Texans game the he almost gave away, taking about how much he loved that man. Really? Love? Hue only worked for him for what 2 years. The guy likes the bright lights. He has turned himself into a buffoon. The fact that Hue still won’t admit that he blew the 2 point conversion call after the Curry touchdown is downright disturbing. Basic math. The fact that he admits that he unaware that Tyvon Branch returns kicks??? It is his job to know. It is not his job to do ESPN interviews getting his nails done. Al knew what all his players did in Pop Warner. This team misses Al. My biggest problem with Hue is that he acts like he’s won something. Hue ain’t won $hit. Hue is a poor man’s Rex Ryan. A lot of talk but not a lot of winning. The clown needs to go.
Just Win Baby.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:12 pm
3-4 or 4-3, I don’t think it matters. It’s execution and playcalls, Imo.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Louis Murphy is just as good as Megatron …
December 21st, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Jesus Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:11 pm
“He’s a great player. Get over it.” – Al
———————–
I know MR ,just wanted to get you to actually write Als name …
………..
Well, you Davis shills have been known to try to deceive people in the past by blaming others for Al’s poor decisions, so I like to set the record straight juuuuust in case.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Feel like a broken record saying it, but again, it must be said, for those that want Hue gone; realize Carson Palmer will be shown the door too; and for those that want Carson Palmer gone; Hue will likely be replaced. They’re tied at the hip for at least the next two seasons so one’s individual successes will help the other as will their individual failures likewise cause harm to the other. I have no issue with any fan hating on both or over-praising both…Lord knows they’ve both given us reasons too on both accounts, but for those that hate on one and praise the other; please realize how idiotic you sound…please
December 21st, 2011 at 5:15 pm
Jesus Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:13 pm
Louis Murphy is just as good as Megatron …
………
Yeah, you know, I didn’t see that on Sunday…
December 21st, 2011 at 5:17 pm
I don’t think Mark is going to fire his head coach immediately following a season where we had our best start since 2002 (7-4).
December 21st, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Sitting here mulling over the possibility of the Raiders getting a wild card, while the disturbing reality sets in that there’s no way the NFL is going to let Denver lose out. lol. Oh well. Finish strong.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Raiders getting into the playoffs, I meant. The Davis shills are desperate. They’ll call me on anything. lol.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:22 pm
94.Sullivan44 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:20 pm
Sitting here mulling over the possibility of the Raiders getting a wild card, while the disturbing reality sets in that there’s no way the NFL is going to let Denver lose out. lol. Oh well. Finish strong.
—————————————————–
Do we beat out Cincy on the tiebreaker if we end up tied with them?
December 21st, 2011 at 5:24 pm
Speaking of 07 draft we also missed out on ….
Adrian Peterson – 7th pick
Patrick Willis – 11th
Darrell Revis – 14th
Jon Beason – 25th
Lamarr Woodley -46th
December 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
GoodOle00 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:08 pm
77. RMR trying to pass himself off as the Doctor. Sly I agree technique nut job
—–
Trolls gotta troll.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Sitting here mulling over the possibility of the Raiders getting a wild card, while the disturbing reality sets in that there’s no way the NFL is going to let Denver lose out. lol. Oh well. Finish strong.
———————–
There’s still a 8% chance Sull … What if Jesus goes on vacation for his birthday ???
December 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Pryor was not called for false start. He was called for not re-setting for one whole second after he motioned in under the center. But that was the beauty of that play; as soon as the QB gets there you go!
Always thought there was a rules interpretation problem problem with that play. . .I didn’t think re=setting for a whole second applied to a designated QB. . .doesn’t matter now. . .about 10 other plays I would like a redo on this season. . .
December 21st, 2011 at 5:25 pm
Jesus Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 4:00 pm
If we got Harbaugh do you think we are 13-3 this year or is having Chuck B. that much of HANDICAP ?
I believe Harbaugh not only hired every one of his assistants but also the GM and owners if I’m not mistaken.
Raider coaching staff will be looking a lot different next year boys. Only for sures to be back are Wylie and Waufle. Possibles Woodson, Biekert and Wiz.
Hue didn’t hire any of these cats.
We have one more chance to stay alive in the playoff race Saturday. Hue is trying to hold this thing together for dear life.
Next year the Oakland Raiders will be a collaboration of GM_______, Mark Davis, Amy Trask, and Hue Jackson. For the first time since ‘63 Al will not have his hands in everything and it will be interesting times for this organization.
My guess is Thurman whose contract is up and can be interviewed will come here as DC and have major input on D assistants.
Mr. Jackson is going to give himself the best chance to keep his job as long as possible by hiring a group of men he trusts with his longevity….Don’t think Hue hasn’t learned a lot this season.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:26 pm
SilverAndBlackBleeder Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:14 pm
Feel like a broken record saying it, but again, it must be said, for those that want Hue gone; realize Carson Palmer will be shown the door too; and for those that want Carson Palmer gone; Hue will likely be replaced. They’re tied at the hip for at least the next two seasons so one’s individual successes will help the other as will their individual failures likewise cause harm to the other. I have no issue with any fan hating on both or over-praising both…Lord knows they’ve both given us reasons too on both accounts, but for those that hate on one and praise the other; please realize how idiotic you sound…please
—–
I don’t get the part about Palmer not being the QB if Jackson gets fired.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:28 pm
Huey should have hired a cat that knows basic math or can read a 2pt conversion chart.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Palmer will stay, regardless. they gave up too much for him. Can’t cut that guy.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:32 pm
Kell is right. The new GM will keep Palmer and can Huey.
Go Raiders!
December 21st, 2011 at 5:34 pm
KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Palmer will stay, regardless. they gave up too much for him. Can’t cut that guy.
——
Palmer would never be cut. As others have said he is worth a 2012 first.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:36 pm
If you look at some of the top defenses in the league, there are many 3-4 defenses. Of the top 10 total defenses, eight of them are predominantly 3-4 defenses (Houston, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Francisco, NY Jets, San Diego, Jacksonville, and Washington).
December 21st, 2011 at 5:38 pm
106.silverback Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:34 pm
KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:30 pm
Palmer will stay, regardless. they gave up too much for him. Can’t cut that guy.
——
Palmer would never be cut. As others have said he is worth a 2012 first.
————————————
Not saying either is going to happen, BUT, if one happens, the other will as well. Palmer was Hue’s guy. The org and locker room both know that; so if Hue gets the axe; Palmer will too. No such thing as cleaning house “half-ass”…….Now, I’m of the opinion that both will stay for another season at least because of what they gave up (even though I’m ready to throw Pryor in there next year)
December 21st, 2011 at 5:39 pm
Didn’t realize San Diego has a statistically top 10 defense. Raiders trashed that group in the first half at San Diego.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:40 pm
I think a 3-4 defense will be good as long as we have a aggressive dc I think the only gap we have is nose tackle we can trade Kelly for Franklin in new Orleans Houston and seymour as the ends wimbley as outside lb mcclain inside curry r goethel as the other inside backer Scott Groves and nasty can compete for the other outside spot an I think mcclain and Houston will have more success in a 3-4 that’s what mcclain ran at bama
December 21st, 2011 at 5:40 pm
The NFL’s top two defenses (Pittsburgh and Baltimore) are 3-4 teams. The top two defenses in sacks (Dallas and Pittsburgh) are 3-4 teams. Therefore, it might be time to consider the 3-4 a better package against modern offenses.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:40 pm
Hue gave away the Buffalo and Detroit game with his horrible game management.
The difference between 9-5 and 7-7 is a solid Head Coach.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:41 pm
Not saying either is going to happen, BUT, if one happens, the other will as well. Palmer was Hue’s guy. The org and locker room both know that; so if Hue gets the axe; Palmer will too. No such thing as cleaning house “half-ass”…….Now, I’m of the opinion that both will stay for another season at least because of what they gave up (even though I’m ready to throw Pryor in there next year)
—-
I would say that as soon as the new GM is hired Palmer will be his guy as well.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Jacksonville is 4-3. Baltimore and the 49ers show multiple fronts. Justin Smith spends a lot of time at DT and Aldon Smith comes in as a 4-3 DE.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
The link I posted says if Raider win out and if Broncos lose to Chiefs in final week, we win the AFC west. I didn’t mean wild card, I meant getting into the playoffs. We have no chance for WC.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:44 pm
Our secondary can be blamed for Det and Buff losses just as much as any coach. Replacing players is much less risky than replacing a coach. We’d have to be crazy to fire Hue. Mark Davis doesn’t look crazy to me.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:45 pm
Scotty, you shoudn’t have tried to pass yourself off as an Irishman.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:45 pm
I have no problem switching to a 3-4. We need to blow our defense up and start over anyway.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:46 pm
Nice schizoid conversation.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Sanducky44 SHUT UP!!
Stop saying “we”
You are not a Raider fan you are a failed script writer that has become socially retarded because your an emotional weak person.
Seeing you post in here and say “we” is like watching a man eat his own puke!
December 21st, 2011 at 5:53 pm
40.KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:40 pm
RaiderSam
They fired Marshall right off the bat. The best Raider D in years.
I understand they couldn’t get anybody else but Chuck Bresnahan. Why fire Marshall?
Last year #11
This year back to our customary #27
—
C’mon. You know that # 11 rating is very deceiving when u consider what the main goal for the D was coming in to this season: STOP THE RUN. Something they haven’t done this year.
Also, why would teams pass and rack up big yards when u can carve up the defense thru the run which is what the opposition did.
When teams wanted to pass against the Raiders last year…they did.
That being said they were better than THIS POS D.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Sullinvan 44 that the thing about it we don’t have to blow up r defense to switch we have a lot of pieces and with a 3-4 we will be putting people in better positions to succeed seymour is a 34 end Houston is a 34 end mcclain is a 34 inside backer Wimbley is a 34 outside backer I don’t think the switch will be that hard look what it did for the texans as long as we get the right dc it should work
December 21st, 2011 at 5:55 pm
I agree with post 120.
Go Raiders!
December 21st, 2011 at 5:55 pm
50.Dr. Hunter S. Thompson Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:57 pm
You got to love Huey and his guarantees.
Didn’t Huey guarantee the Raiders would win the AFC West this year?
—
Yes. Also guaranteed:
-Fix the penalties
-Stop the run.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Why is it when i watch these press conferences (outdoors) there is always planes in the background? Do they interview at the freakin airport? Can’t even hear half of it.
December 21st, 2011 at 5:58 pm
If Hue isn’t more convincing in team meetings than he is in his pressers, this team tuned him out a month ago.
Go Raiders!
December 21st, 2011 at 6:01 pm
85.YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:09 pm
The thing about the 3-4 is that the switch benefits an aging Richard Seymour, a marginal player in Rolando McClain, and maybe Trevor Scott.
Wimbley has the same limitations in a 3-4 as he does in a 4-3 (just ask Browns fans), and has actually been a better fit in a 4-3 because of his versatility.
The rest of the roster? Curry is not an ideal 4-3 fit, as he never was much of a pass-rusher. Nor are TK, Shaughnessy, Bryant, Houston (3-4 DE might be an option, but his natural position is 4-3 3-tech DT). The Raiders would need to find a way to get, at the very least, a big-time NT as well as another legit 3-4 OLB.
And even then, there’s no guarantee that they will stop the run. Bills, Jets, Redskins, Cardinals, Packers… all teams that gave up their fair share of rushing yards this season.
It’s more important to find a DC with a plan, who can work with the personnel the Raiders already have. There’s no guarantee that they’re going to be able to lure in the new pieces they need, no matter which system they’re running. So they might as well have a coach who, if worse comes to worst, can make the most out of what’s already available to him.
^^^^^^
In a 3-4:
NT’s- Henderson, Kelly, Seymour(in a spot role)
DE’s- Houston,Bryant,Seymour,Shaunny
OLB’s- Wimbley,Shaunny,Curry,Scott,Moss
ILB’s- McClain,Goethel,Curry,Blackstock
If they go 3-4, they need to get a LEGIT 3-4 NT, and add another beast 3-4 OLB and even add a vet ILB to push and compete with RoMac.
The most important thing would be to hire a LEGIT 3-4 D Coordinator above all else!
December 21st, 2011 at 6:01 pm
Deja Vu Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:56 pm
Why is it when i watch these press conferences (outdoors) there is always planes in the background? Do they interview at the freakin airport? Can’t even hear half of it.
———————————–
HQ is right next to the Oakland Airport.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:04 pm
114.YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:42 pm
Jacksonville is 4-3. Baltimore and the 49ers show multiple fronts. Justin Smith spends a lot of time at DT and Aldon Smith comes in as a 4-3 DE.
^^^^^^^
Yep.
B-More plays a base 3-4, however they are scheme diverse and can switch to a 4-3 in heartbeat depending on the game situation.
That is what the Raiders need to become on D!
Scheme diverse!
December 21st, 2011 at 6:04 pm
olinesux sounds like a cranky 70 year old unwilling to adapt.
No, oline, you DIDN’T see a 3-4 before. Not with it given time to develop, be taught properly, and the right people brought in. Davis gave it like 2 months, and meddled with it, and it led to 5 more years of 4-3 bottom 5 defense.
As for zone, dude, it’s not 1960 football. You have to mix it up.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Thanks, Kell.
I find it funny that Herrera is always close by for these things (with his arms folded) ready to snap someones neck if things get out of hand. I got 20 on Cork!
December 21st, 2011 at 6:07 pm
Djohnnyg Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:53 pm
40.KoolKell Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 3:40 pm
RaiderSam
They fired Marshall right off the bat. The best Raider D in years.
I understand they couldn’t get anybody else but Chuck Bresnahan. Why fire Marshall?
Last year #11
This year back to our customary #27
—
C’mon. You know that # 11 rating is very deceiving when u consider what the main goal for the D was coming in to this season: STOP THE RUN. Something they haven’t done this year.
Also, why would teams pass and rack up big yards when u can carve up the defense thru the run which is what the opposition did.
When teams wanted to pass against the Raiders last year…they did.
That being said they were better than THIS POS D.
————————————–
STOP THE RUN is the goal every year with the Raiders. Marshall had the D at #11 last year, fact.
#27 this year, fact. You are what your record says you are.
Speculation on why………………?
December 21st, 2011 at 6:09 pm
why did Davis fire Marshall?
Come on, you know why. Too much zone, which Al hated.
Marshall, at age 70+, was too “modern” for Mr. Davis.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:10 pm
If the Raiders find a way to trade up high enough to get DT/NT Alameda Ta’amu, the rest will take care of itself.
DT Dontari Poe is an option, but he’s more of a 4-3 1-tech than 3-4 0-tech.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:12 pm
alex sounds like a spoiled 7 year old….this team in a 3-4 would be a disaster….can you honestly see curry or wimbley in coverage? cmon man…
December 21st, 2011 at 6:13 pm
as for zone megatron handled that….
December 21st, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Curry is not a pass-rusher. TK is not a gap-eater, he’s more suited to a system where his job is to shed blockers. Henderson is not strong enough at the point of attack to be a base NT in a 3-4. Too tall, not enough leverage, too old to hold up for the entire season. Shaughnessy doesn’t have the build of a 3-4 OLB. Wimbley will disappear again like he did in Cleveland if the Raiders start using him as a 3-4 rush LB since he has only one pass rush move. Houston is best suited to be a 4-3 3-tech, same with Bryant.
The switch to 3-4 is not as clear cut as some of you are making it seem.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:19 pm
lets hope carson can redeem himself from that putrid showing last time vs the queefs. He has had a god awful season, high ligted with two decent games. one was a win although he still coughed up the ball twice. lats week he was just good enough to lose missing a wide open moore in the endzone for a score that could have given us enough to win. The over throw to chaz was bad as well.
i hope he can deliver on what everybody said he could do throwing deep. two over throws and a pick in the endzone into triple coverage.
Can carson make a comeback? lets hope so, 7-7 isnt that good but it beats 7-8
December 21st, 2011 at 6:22 pm
Mistic, I fixed your comment for you.
“lets hope Michael Bush and the D can redeem themselves from that putrid showing last time vs the queefs. They’ve had an awful 2nd half of the season after Palmer led us to 3 straight wins for the first time since the Gannon years.”
December 21st, 2011 at 6:25 pm
# alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 6:22 pm
Mistic, I fixed your comment for you.
“lets hope Michael Bush and the D can redeem themselves from that putrid showing last time vs the queefs. They’ve had an awful 2nd half of the season after Palmer led us to 3 straight wins for the first time since the Gannon years.”
===========
???
December 21st, 2011 at 6:28 pm
YA sees exactly what i do….
December 21st, 2011 at 6:30 pm
YA,
I think most have stated we need a NT, and Shaughnessy can be a strong 3-4 end, not an OLB. Curry certainly is athletic and strong enough to be a pass-rusher, though certainly that’s not the only job of a 3-4 LB.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:32 pm
oline,
do you ever think longer than 1 nanosecond ahead?
You don’t think a 3-4 coordinator would bring in FAs and draft players that would fit his system? OLBers have to cover areas or people in a EVERY D scheme.
More importantly, WHEN ON EARTH HAS THE 4-3 WORKED HERE that you’re so attached to it?
Oakland won it’s super bowls playing a 3-4.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:34 pm
a 3-4 or 4-3 defensive front/scheme isn’t a magical formula for winning a stupor bowl.
no matter how many attempts at either, teams like the chargers and titans and jets just can’t get it done. (oh, excuse me for misrecalling 1969).
a potent offense can out-do any defense. it is the o-line/QB which dictates in this day and age no matter what a defense hopes to do.
the 4-3 Giants doused the Pewks a few years back. The Pewk O-line didn’t man up and so it went.
the 4-3 Cards had the Pitts in the pits and let ‘em off the hook. (As I recall Warner had no prob with the Pitt 3-4 except for the worst pass in the history of the NFL just before halftime.)
whatever you want to think, it ain’t the solution
December 21st, 2011 at 6:36 pm
[...] Jackson talks about 4-3 vs. 3-4 defensive scheme There is plenty of speculation about whether the Raiders might convert to a 3-4 defensive scheme next season. On Wednesday, coach Hue Jackson fueled the fire by confirming that he isn’t averse to switching schemes. “I am not wedded to any… [...]
December 21st, 2011 at 6:36 pm
You don’t think a 3-4 coordinator would bring in FAs and draft players that would fit his system? OLBers have to cover areas or people in a EVERY D scheme.
————–
Not many draft picks to work with, though.
The two most important pieces of a 3-4 are the NT and a playmaking 3-4 rush linebacker. The Raiders have neither (again, Wimbley has only one pass rush move, which is why Cleveland traded him here). There’s no guarantee that the Raiders will be able to find the two most important pieces to putting together a 3-4 defense. They’re going to have to trade up in the draft, and probably overpay some FAs if they want the transition to be smooth.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:43 pm
again YA, we need to think longer than 1 year ahead.
Year after year, and again this year, most of the top run defenses in the NFL run a 3-4.
We KNOW a 3-4 zone is cheaper to run than a 4-3 man because you don’t have to pay premium for pass-rushing DEs and shut-down corners.
We have constantly tried to over-pay for talent on D, ignoring the teaching and development of a scheme.
Hasn’t worked.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:45 pm
Wimbley averaged over 6 sacks a season in Cleveland.
Not like that’s terrible, or that we’ve had anything better.
He’s too light to play a 4-3 DE, and one of the MANY reasons we get gashed vs the run.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:46 pm
oh yeah alex has thought so far ahead….because any free agent lb can play 3-4….give it a break….any decent qb can rip up a 3-4…lbs in coverage in todays nfl….. who is thinking in the past……
December 21st, 2011 at 6:47 pm
Well, John Marshall had the D at #11 Last year.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:48 pm
gannon ate up a steeler 4-3 defense….youtube it its that simple
December 21st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
Gannon was MVP.
Remind me how often a defense faces an MVP?
Geez, cranky old man.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:49 pm
again YA, we need to think longer than 1 year ahead.
Year after year, and again this year, most of the top run defenses in the NFL run a 3-4.
We KNOW a 3-4 zone is cheaper to run than a 4-3 man because you don’t have to pay premium for pass-rushing DEs and shut-down corners.
We have constantly tried to over-pay for talent on D, ignoring the teaching and development of a scheme.
Hasn’t worked.
———————
A 3-4 is not cheaper to run, you just pay a premium for different positions.
I agree with wanting to plan long-term, but people here have been saying that the switch to a 3-4 = playoffs, and that simply isn’t the case. Like ANY defensive system, you have to have the right coach and the right pieces to make it work.
The top defensive teams run a 3-4 because of the coaches, and because of the pieces they have. Unless the Raiders can get a coach like that and quality pieces, the 3-4 won’t be any more successful than a 4-3 here.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:54 pm
There are no magic schemes.
December 21st, 2011 at 6:56 pm
Top 2011 defenses:
Steelers 3-4
Texans 3-4
Ravens 3-4
Dolphins 3-4
49ers 3-4
other notable successful 3-4 D’s in recent years: Jets, Packers, Saints, Chargers.
I’m sure it’s all a coincidence though
December 21st, 2011 at 7:01 pm
it’s not magic, it’s simply more flexible, better equipped to mix coverages and fronts, allows for more blitz angles, and is deemed by most notable D coaches as better than a 4-3.
other than all that…
December 21st, 2011 at 7:02 pm
Steelers = LeBeau, Harrison, Woodley, Polmalu, Smith
Texans = Wade Phillips, Ryans, Cushing, Barwin, Reed, Joseph
Ravens = Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Jarrett Johnson, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed… also use 4-3 alignments plenty with Suggs and Johnson at DE and Ngata at DT
Dolphins = Mike Nolan, Cameron Wake, Paul Soliai, Koa Misi, two VERY good corners in Smith and Davis
49ers = Willis, Bowman, Justin Smith, Aldon Smith, use the 4-3 quite a bit with Justin Smith at DT and Aldon Smith at DE
If you can’t find the right pieces and the right coach, scheme doesn’t matter. Raiders don’t have any clear-cut difference makers that would make the transition to 3-4 make any sense. Unless you can find a good coach, and a true NT and playmaker at OLB in free agency, the defense will continue to struggle.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:04 pm
ya,
a 3-4 is easier to replenish, the scheme makes stars out of average LBers, the Steelers have proven this over time.
Steelers don’t have to pay for top CBs, or top DEs, or top LBers. Only leaves NT and rover safety as premium positions you pay for.
4-3 man-to-man you have to pay for premium DEs to pass rush, premium CBs to shut down pass, and those are the two most expensive free-agency positions on D.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:06 pm
In American football, a 4–3 defense is a defensive alignment consisting of four down linemen and three linebackers. It is probably the most commonly used defense in modern American football and especially in the National Football League. NFL teams that use the 4–3 defense as of 2011 include the Cleveland Browns, Philadelphia Eagles, New York Giants, Atlanta Falcons, Oakland Raiders, St. Louis Rams, Minnesota Vikings, Chicago Bears, Carolina Panthers, Cincinnati Bengals, Indianapolis Colts, Jacksonville Jaguars, Tennessee Titans, Detroit Lions, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, New England Patriots, Seattle Seahawks, Denver Broncos, and Baltimore Ravens. The Broncos returned to the 4-3 with the hiring of John Fox as head coach. The Patriots returned to the 4-3 in the 2011 NFL Season. Although the Ravens primarily use a 3-4, a 4-3 is used in some circumstances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4%E2%80%933_defense
December 21st, 2011 at 7:06 pm
#153
We definitely don’t have the DC for a 3-4 or a 4-3 either. Bresnahan is has has been crap. HE NEEDS TO GO – the sooner the better.
On the 3-4 parts argument, we DO have most of the parts already under contract. What we need is a starting NT and a crazy edge LB. I’d really lke us to draft Vontaze Burfict – ASU MLB but move him to the edge opposite Wimble. I’d keep Curry & McClain as the ILB. Curry could be the blitzer from the middle while McClain could fall back into coverage. BU LB would be Goethal, Groves and Bruce Davis III if they can get him back.
Back-ups for the new NT could be Kelly & Henderson. DE’s would be Seymour, Shaughnesy, Moss, Houston, Bryant & Scott.
CBs would be Routt, CJ37, DVD, Chimdi Checkwa & Lito Sheppard. Safeties would be Huff, Branch, Mitchell, Giordano & a FA or 2.
This 3-4 alignment would be a lot more effective than the current 4-3 which is just too predictable. Changing to a 3-4 next year is just a DC away.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:08 pm
Steelers paid Harrison and Woodley pretty handsomely.
Raiders have no players of that caliber on defense.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:10 pm
The 3–4 defense declined in popularity over the years, but has found renewed use by modern professional and college football teams. The 3–4 defense is so named because it involves 3 down linemen and 4 linebackers. There are usually 4 defensive backs.
Teams that use the 3–4 defense include the San Diego Chargers, Kansas City Chiefs, Dallas Cowboys, New York Jets, Green Bay Packers, Miami Dolphins, Baltimore Ravens, Buffalo Bills, Arizona Cardinals, San Francisco 49ers, Pittsburgh Steelers, Washington Redskins, and Houston Texans. The Cardinals already incorporate the 5–2 defense, an older variation of the 3–4, in some of their defensive schemes. The Miami Dolphins have also incorporated elements of the 3–4 defense into their scheme, under defensive coordinator Mike Nolan. The Ravens run a hybrid defense and occasionally shift to 4–3 schemes during games. With the hiring of defensive coordinator Dom Capers, the Green Bay Packers have switched to a 3–4 defense (2009). The Buffalo Bills installed a 3–4 scheme to begin the 2010 season, but made frequent use of 4–3 sets as the season progressed. Under new defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, the Houston Texans have also indicated that they will adopt the 3–4 defensive scheme for the 2011 season.[2]
December 21st, 2011 at 7:11 pm
The Raiders are still missing the most important ingredients for a successful 3-4 defense. A good coach, a difference maker at OLB, and a true NT. Unless those things become available to the Raiders, they still have more 4-3 pieces than 3-4 pieces. No point running a 3-4 if you’re going to run it with sub-par players who are questionable fits for the system.
The Raiders simply need to find the best defensive coordinator available and go from there. Otherwise the scheme doesn’t mean anything.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Excellent cut and paste job, Krappy.
Good to see your fingers are still working after your Holiday Boat Cruise.
Thought you might’ve sprained them stuffing them into the dip.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:11 pm
oh yeah the chargers which this team ate up 3 in a row now….
December 21st, 2011 at 7:11 pm
I thought the top 10 Ds were:
1. Steelers
2. Texans
3.Ravens
4. Jags
5. Niners
6. Bengals
7. Jets
8. Seachickens
9.Falcons
10. Eagles
Now I realize that the top half run a 3-4 but the look who they have playing and then look at who is on the teams that run 4-3.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:13 pm
those players were MADE by the Steelers scheme. They would be undersized or “wrong” in 4-3 schemes.
What happens to most Steelers LBers when they leave Pittsburgh? They revert to average.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:13 pm
The Seahawks defense is an Al David wet dream. They’re fun to watch, too.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:13 pm
^erase the
December 21st, 2011 at 7:15 pm
i like the steelers lbs in coverage…talk about funny
December 21st, 2011 at 7:15 pm
Mr.D Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:55 pm
Sullinvan 44 that the thing about it we don’t have to blow up r defense to switch we have a lot of pieces
………..
How can you say that after Sunday?
December 21st, 2011 at 7:18 pm
New England plays a 3-4, they have the worst D in the league.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:18 pm
alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:13 pm
those players were MADE by the Steelers scheme. They would be undersized or “wrong” in 4-3 schemes.
What happens to most Steelers LBers when they leave Pittsburgh? They revert to average.
—————
Just like Curry, Kelly, Shaughnessy, and Bryant are wrong for a 3-4.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:20 pm
We need an entirely new secondary, and a possession WR. Those two things and we’re a 10 win team for the next 3 years, at least. From there, we can run whatever defensive alignment that works. Safeties and WR are still the positions where there’s a lot of “scholarship” cleansing to be done.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:24 pm
lol YA
are Curry and Kelly “right” for a 4-3?
We’ve been bottom 5 D 7 out of the last 8 years.
Change is ok, especially change to what works (top 5 D units in the league). Hue knows this, regardless of some of you disagreeing.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:26 pm
HOW DID THE TEXANS go from terrible D to 2nd-best D in ONE SEASON?
Oh, they switched to a 3-4 and brought in Wade Phillips.
NOBODY would have guessed Mario Williams was “right” for a 3-4. Scheme trumps players.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:27 pm
As I’ve said multiple times, 3-4 or 4-3 doesn’t matter. Find the right coach first, then find players that fit in.
The way it is currently? Curry and Kelly are better fits in a 4-3 than a 3-4. So unless those players are definitely gone after the season, and the organization has a clear plan on how to replace them with players that fit a 3-4, it doesn’t make much sense.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:27 pm
Like Mrs.Silverback says: “Do the one that works.”
December 21st, 2011 at 7:28 pm
steroids and the #1 draft pick
mario williams
December 21st, 2011 at 7:28 pm
No, they found Wade Phillips THEN they switched to a 3-4. Players like Barwin, Cushing, and Ryans were always better 3-4 fits than 4-3. They had a first round pick to use on JJ Watt. Mario Williams is a big-time playmaker and game-changer, regardless of scheme. Raiders don’t have any player on defense who comes anywhere close to being that caliber of impact player.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 6:19 pm
lets hope carson can redeem himself from that putrid showing last time vs the queefs. He has had a god awful season, high ligted with two decent games. one was a win although he still coughed up the ball twice. lats week he was just good enough to lose missing a wide open moore in the endzone for a score that could have given us enough to win. The over throw to chaz was bad as well.
=============================================
You did a very good job of breaking down a couple of Palmers incompeltions in the last game. Would you mind breaking down the over 30 completions? Out of 40 attempts? That is a 75 completion percentage. And at least 2 or 3 of those incompletions were spikes. Somebody that completes almost 80% of his passes in a must win game against a quality opponent is OK by me.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:37 pm
lol Oline, you are funny. Sad, but funny.
Mario was the #1 pick like 5 years ago. They were terrible for his first 4 seasons until Wade and the 3-4 arrived.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:39 pm
YA,
why would we assume Cushing, who played a 4-3 at USC, was always a better 3-4 fit?
Come on, man.
Those same athletes were on terrible D’s until Wade and the 3-4 showed up.
Bottom 5 to 2nd. That’s awesome.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:39 pm
# YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:27 pm
As I’ve said multiple times, 3-4 or 4-3 doesn’t matter. Find the right coach first, then find players that fit in.
The way it is currently? Curry and Kelly are better fits in a 4-3 than a 3-4. So unless those players are definitely gone after the season, and the organization has a clear plan on how to replace them with players that fit a 3-4, it doesn’t make much sense.
========================================
The major issue with running an odd front is the outside ends. Guys like Shaun Phillips, Demarcus Ware, James Harrison. Who is going to play those positions for us considering they are going to be very very very hard to find? And BTW, YA your assesment with Tommie Kelly last go round was soundly inaccurate.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:43 pm
# YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:27 pm
As I’ve said multiple times, 3-4 or 4-3 doesn’t matter. Find the right coach first, then find players that fit in.
The way it is currently? Curry and Kelly are better fits in a 4-3 than a 3-4. So unless those players are definitely gone after the season, and the organization has a clear plan on how to replace them with players that fit a 3-4, it doesn’t make much sense.
=========================================
This I completely agree with. I have said over and over and I still believe it that Curry might be best suited inside.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:45 pm
# alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:26 pm
Scheme trumps players.
====================================
No it doesn’t. And no one on ANY level of the game will agree with you on that.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:46 pm
The people running this team TODAY see Carson Palmer as the best fit for QB.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:47 pm
The NFL is different. Cushing is a downhill player. Doesn’t excel at playing sideline-to-sideline (remember his second season, sans-roids?).
Ryans is similar – a downhill player who can make an impact, but doesn’t have the range of Urlacher, Lewis, etc.
Barwin was a terrible fit as a 4-3 DE.
Okoye was a bust.
DC was a hack.
Texans defense had a whole bunch of problems. But they found a good coach, and had enough ammunition to make some moves in FA and the draft that made the switch possible.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:51 pm
Wade Phillips may be a bit of a bust as a Head Coach, but there is no denying he is an excellent defensive tactician and teacher and has been one for decades.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:51 pm
And BTW, YA your assesment with Tommie Kelly last go round was soundly inaccurate.
—————–
I disagree. The guy has always been a player who penetrates gaps. Does not hold his gap. Constantly overpursues because he’s focused on rushing the passer. Maybe an old dog can be taught new tricks, but right now? The Raiders have two 3-tech DTs, neither of whom seem capable of playing 4-3 1-tech or 3-4 0-tech. Both of whom are aging and have been liabilities against the run – Seymour for the last couple seasons, Kelly for pretty much his entire career unless he lucks out and shoots the gap the running back is going for.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:52 pm
# Seymour Bush Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:36 pm
=============================================
You did a very good job of breaking down a couple of Palmers incompeltions in the last game. Would you mind breaking down the over 30 completions? Out of 40 attempts? That is a 75 completion percentage. And at least 2 or 3 of those incompletions were spikes. Somebody that completes almost 80% of his passes in a must win game against a quality opponent is OK by me.
====================
best game as a raider and his best game in a couple of years, but the two most critical throws were off target. he must improve and hit open guys, and avoid the picks.
thats all
December 21st, 2011 at 7:53 pm
kelly is a fantastic pass rusher and a terrible run defender. he is one of the main players that is most often out of his gap
December 21st, 2011 at 7:55 pm
I wouldn’t have a problem with TK if he looked like anywhere near the same player when Richard Seymour wasn’t playing next to him.
December 21st, 2011 at 7:57 pm
what i want to know is where in the hell is houston? I saw him standing straight up and unable to shed one on one blocks. he isnt building on what he did last year, perhaps it has something to do with missing the other book end shaugnessy
December 21st, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Houston is a little out of place as a DE. He belongs on the inside playing 3-tech with a 1-tech or 2-tech DT next to him.
Regardless of scheme, a versatile DT who can play 2-, 1-, or 0-tech and a big-time DE or OLB who can seal the edge against the run AND rush the passer should be the priorities in FA and the draft.
Neither will be easy to find without draft picks in the first three rounds.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:01 pm
This talk about defensive alignments is all idle BS. It doesn’t matter what schemes you play. Today’s football is played with multiple alignments in offense and defense, every team better be ready to adjust and put players in positions to make plays.
After all these years following the game, all I know is that is all about players making plays. However, the coaches must work to prepare the players on the other team’s tendencies, call the appropriate plays, and adjust to the situations.
Multiple player switches for different situations. Whether it be nickels, dimes, cover this or cover that, man, zones, or mix alignments. That’s what is all about in today’s game.
However, it’s still about making the tackle, stuffing a run or short yardage, deflecting a pass, and being ready and smart to put yourself in the right place to make plays. Case in point is watching someone like Troy Palamalu play defense. I know it’s unfair to other DBs and safeties, or any player, because there aren’t that many Troy Palamalus around, but he definitely sets the standard of how the game needs to be played today.
Another case to point out is Big Rich Seymour. Here you have a guy that looks like a beast, has proven in the past that he could play like a beast, a multiple super bowl champ and pro-bowler, but that refuses to man up and play to lead since he came to the Raiders, or even just make plays instead of excuses game in and game out. Was he really worth last year’s pro bowl?
Could young players like McClain, Houston, Desmond Bryant, even Curry now, look up at Big Rich for leadership?
Have we even noticed it all year?
Are they going to, all of sudden, man up for these last two games?
One would hope so, maybe Big Rich feels he’s worth two games to validate his pay. I hope so, but I doubt it.
Like I said, Bresnahan is criticized, deservedly so, because he’s clueless and should have never been promoted to coordinator. But, there’s also a lot of idle money hanging around the DLine, and their production is not worthy of the uniform. Either get rid of them or bring a head coach and staff that will make them achieve and not continue to underachieve.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:02 pm
The guy has always been a player who penetrates gaps. Does not hold his gap. Constantly overpursues because he’s focused on rushing the passer. Maybe an old dog can be taught new tricks, but right now? The Raiders have two 3-tech DTs, neither of whom seem capable of playing 4-3 1-tech or 3-4 0-tech. Both of whom are aging and have been liabilities against the run – Seymour for the last couple seasons, Kelly for pretty much his entire career unless he lucks out and shoots the gap the running back is going for.
============================================
Some of this I agree with some not. Kelly received a huge bulk of double teams before Seymour got here. That’s why they went after Seymour. To make both better. Now Seymour receives the double teams. Warren Sapp would constantly just shoot his gap but Kelly does not do that. I agree that neither are a classic NT, but what is a classic NT? You do not see Seymour and Kelly getting pushed backwards into the backers. What you do see, and have seen for years here, is the DT’s occupying space, and the LB’s either reading the wrong gap, not shedding their block, or being late to the POA. That means the secondary has to come up in run support. If you don’t believe me, McClain has gone entire games with one or two tackles, and Branch consistently leads the team in tackles. That is not good, and that is not because of Tommy Kelly.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:03 pm
Houston is a high-motor guy, but not an edge pass rusher. He can bullrush, but his only other pass rush move seems to be a less-than-fluid spin move that frequently seems to put him out of position.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:04 pm
The whole notion of “Switching” to a 3-4 is silly.
SI did a great piece at the beginning of the year on defensive units for teams flexibility.
Basically only 1 team (I believe it was the Lions 4-3) had either a 3 or 4 man front more than 60% of the time. Most teams were about 40+% each with a 3 and 4 man front. The Packers actually had only 2 down lineman on the field more than 3 D-lineman.
Even as a “4-3″ teams last year, we had 4 down lineman on the field less than 55% of the time.
Just $hit for fans to talk about on message boards, but in reality, EVERY NFL TEAM SPRINKLES IN SOME 3-4 AND 4-3 EVERY SUNDAY.
Just like every team has some ZBS in their blocking schemes as well.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:06 pm
Some of this I agree with some not. Kelly received a huge bulk of double teams before Seymour got here. That’s why they went after Seymour. To make both better. Now Seymour receives the double teams. Warren Sapp would constantly just shoot his gap but Kelly does not do that. I agree that neither are a classic NT, but what is a classic NT? You do not see Seymour and Kelly getting pushed backwards into the backers. What you do see, and have seen for years here, is the DT’s occupying space, and the LB’s either reading the wrong gap, not shedding their block, or being late to the POA. That means the secondary has to come up in run support. If you don’t believe me, McClain has gone entire games with one or two tackles, and Branch consistently leads the team in tackles. That is not good, and that is not because of Tommy Kelly.
——————
What I see all too often is an offensive linemen getting to the second level on an RB draw or a cutback run, neutralizing any LB who might be in the vicinity. The Raider defensive linemen leave their gaps trying to get to the ball carrier, leaving lanes open with blockers in front.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:07 pm
The most successful defenses are the ones that are the most versatile. That starts with the coaching, but you also have to provide your coaches with the right players, versatile players who can fill many roles. Right now the Raiders have neither of those things.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Here is the link to the article I referenced, but the magazine had the graphs for every team, that isn’t on this link:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1189944/1/index.htm
December 21st, 2011 at 8:10 pm
Basically we ran about 55% 4-3, and 30% 3-4.
So if we reversed those percetages, you telling me that it will make a difference?
Not as much as finding some safeties who understand the sanctity of a zone and how to make a play on a deep ball.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:10 pm
After all these years following the game, all I know is that is all about players making plays. However, the coaches must work to prepare the players on the other team’s tendencies, call the appropriate plays, and adjust to the situations.
==========================================
This is what I was saying about Mike Mitchell playing safety for the lst Detroit Touchdown. As the last line of defense, Mitchell and the coaching staff had to go over the pattern that Downing and Linehan use in that situation. Now that is different than the individual routes the recievers run. Mitchells job is to read the pattern and then watch the Q. By the time Mitchell did that Megatron was spiking the rock.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:11 pm
I think getting MM34, Jerome Boyd and Trevor Scott off the field will help our defense more than what alignment we are primarily in.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:12 pm
I was told all preseason about how “loose” and “smooth” DVD’s hips were.
Yet, the hips “guru’s” seemed to pass over Missile Mikes Montgomery Burns hip movement.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Seymour
Texans proved it.
Mostly same players.
Different scheme.
bottom 5 D turned into 2nd-best D.
Scheme trumps players.
Steelers have proved it year in and year out, regardless of who’s playing LB, no-names at corner, solid average DEs, scheme trumps players.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:14 pm
What I see all too often is an offensive linemen getting to the second level on an RB draw or a cutback run, neutralizing any LB who might be in the vicinity. The Raider defensive linemen leave their gaps trying to get to the ball carrier, leaving lanes open with blockers in front.
==========================================
This is an accurate description. But what I see appears to be LB’s who are waiting to be blocked and not filling those gaps. And again maybe we can go over tape and discuss it. Go back to the lst big TD run against Green Bay and the Packers completely leave McClain UNBLOCKED. And he STILL doesn’t make the play. It is ridiculous really.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:16 pm
mm34 is so used to playing in the box he seemed like he was too nosey and took a flase step on the play fake. he was unable to recover and get deep and johnson raced by him. Instinct and habit are difficult to override at game speed. i do think he can get better and i also think he will get better
December 21st, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Well McClain seems to always be playing back on his feet. He’s hesitant to pick a gap to fill, and when he does it’s frequently the wrong gap. I don’t see the intelligent, aggressive player he seemed to be in college. Very disappointing.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:16 pm
Olinesux
Patriots are 14th in the league in points allowed per game.
Being you said they’re the worst.
Dang stats and truth.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:17 pm
“In fact the Patriots played a 3–4 on just 39.7% of their snaps in 2010, according to game-tape analysis by ProFootballFocus.com. The site counted 29 plays on which New England cornerback Kyle Arrington lined up at defensive end, with his hand on the ground.
The Patriots weren’t alone in this public deception. Super Bowl champ Green Bay, another so-called 3–4 team, had just two defensive linemen on the field on 68.6% of its plays, according to Pro Football Focus.”
********************************
The 3-4 / 4-3 debate is a myth.
It’s about being diverse and creative, or simplistic and stale.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:18 pm
YA,
remember that one bad year Ray Lewis had in Baltimore. He struggled, the D struggled, and he lobbied heavily to get a big-body in front of him to keep blockers off.
Ravens drafted Ngata, D returned to prime-time.
Raiders haven’t had clogging DTs since Sam Adams/John Parella. That’s the last time our MLB was worth anything. Coincidence?
December 21st, 2011 at 8:18 pm
Yards per game as a measure of team defense rankings is also a myth.
With the game on the line, who would you rather have, the Patriots or Packers D, or the Jaquars or Browns D?
December 21st, 2011 at 8:19 pm
alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Seymour
Texans proved it.
Mostly same players.
Different scheme.
bottom 5 D turned into 2nd-best D.
===========================================
There could be a LOT of different reasons for that. Possibly the offense is playing better under Shaub, the play calling is better on defense, certain players have matured, not just scheme. Look at Baltimore. They run an odd front but they do not run the same scheme under Pagano they ran under Rex Ryan or the one they did under Marvin Lewis but they keep chugging along. Players my friend.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:20 pm
The Ravens NT was the same guy for about 10 years, Kelly Gregg.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Just Fire, This isn’t a myth:
Top 2011 defenses:
Steelers 3-4
Texans 3-4
Ravens 3-4
Dolphins 3-4
49ers 3-4
Chargers went 3-4 with Ron Rivera a few years ago and became top NFL defense.
I agree being diverse helps. Having a 3-4 allows for more diversity in your fronts, blitzes, and scheme.
More for O-line, FB, RB, and QB to think about.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:20 pm
alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 8:18 pm
YA,
remember that one bad year Ray Lewis had in Baltimore. He struggled, the D struggled, and he lobbied heavily to get a big-body in front of him to keep blockers off.
Ravens drafted Ngata, D returned to prime-time.
Raiders haven’t had clogging DTs since Sam Adams/John Parella. That’s the last time our MLB was worth anything. Coincidence?
—————-
Yep. Gotta have some interior linemen who keep those OGs and Cs from getting to the second level. DEs and OLBs who funnel the play back inside certainly help, too.
The thing that has been the stumbling block for this Raider defense for YEARS has been gap control. No matter what the scheme is, that NEEDS to be fixed before the defense can take the next step.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
i also think the scheme aspect is over hyped. Players here are under performing and that is the bottom line
December 21st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
If you are arguing that a 3-4 allows for more creativity, I don’t disagree.
I’m just saying the Steelers probably line up in the 3-4 only 50% of the time, according to those who keep those stats.
Did you read the article?
December 21st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Seymour
isn’t it funny how no matter WHO the Ravens, Steelers, and Eagles of the past had, the D would always be awesome?
Either:
a) they were incredibly lucky in always drafting and signing the right players.
or
b) the scheme made it work, regardless of who they brought in.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:23 pm
Scheme is why teams always want a Mike Nolan, a Dick Lebeau, a Gregg Williams.
Scheme is why Hue turned Darren McFadden’s career around.
Scheme turned the Texans D around.
Scheme turned the Saints D around.
Those coaches bring with them a SCHEME.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:25 pm
Ravens scheme won’t do them any good when Ray Lewis and Ed Reed leave.
Having two first ballot HOFers is their scheme.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:26 pm
Bengald D went from joke to solid when Chuck B was let go and Mike Zimmer brought in.
What did Zimmer bring? A scheme. They lost Jonathan Joseph and didn’t miss a beat. Why?
The scheme.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:29 pm
Just Fire Baby
The Ravens just played 5 solid games without Ray Lewis.
Sure, he helps, but the scheme will help find another Ray Lewis. Not like Lewis was a top-5 NFL draft can’t-miss. Neither was Reed.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:31 pm
again
Top 2011 defenses:
Steelers 3-4
Texans 3-4
Ravens 3-4 hybrid
Dolphins 3-4
49ers 3-4 hybrid (Ravens old coach)
December 21st, 2011 at 8:32 pm
Bottom 2011 defenses:
Vikings 4-3
Bucs 4-3
Colts 4-3
Raiders 4-3
Giants 4-3
I’m sure it’s all a coincidence.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:34 pm
Outside of the obvious (Steelers under LeBeau, Ravens under Ryan/Pagano/whoever), I really like the Seahawks and Saints defenses.
Both defenses have athletic linebackers who can all play sideline-to-sideline. Vilma, Hawthorne, KJ Wright, etc.
DBs with size and range. Look at the Seahawks’ secondary with Browning, Chancellor, Sherman, Thomas… as good a combo as you’ll find. Multiple guys over 6′2 (Browning and Chancellor are 6′4 and 6′3, respectively… huge) who can flat-out run. With the Saints – Porter and Greer, with Roman Harper (very underrated) and Malcolm Jenkins at FS. Both teams effectively play man coverage with a single deep safety.
Defensive line is massive. Red Bryant is a 320lb DE. Clemons is their primary pass rusher, and Mebane and Branch play a lot of two-tech DT to occupy running lanes. Saints can rotate Ellis, Franklin, and Shaun Rogers at DT (HUGE!) – they also play a lot of 2-tech. Will Smith and Cam Jordan round out a very talented group.
Gregg Williams and Pete Carroll have effectively built defenses where every player has a role and fills it well – they can be physical and straight-up beat you, but also can keep opposing offenses guessing with various alignments.
Good defense is a lot of run to watch. Shame we haven’t seen much of it in Oakland lately.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:35 pm
Bengals and 49ers have also been a lot of fun to watch this season.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:38 pm
2010 top 2 worst defenses were 3-4 (Bronco’s-Redskins).
I think it is players and creativity on defense. Doesn’t matter if you have a 3-4 or 4-3, if you got crappy players and a dunce at DC, you will stink, and if you got good players and an imaginative DC, you will be top tier.
As if the Raiders could magically just line up a few players differently on Sunday and we would turn around our defensive woes, lol.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:39 pm
# alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Seymour
Texans proved it.
Mostly same players.
Different scheme.
bottom 5 D turned into 2nd-best D.
Scheme trumps players.
Steelers have proved it year in and year out, regardless of who’s playing LB, no-names at corner, solid average DEs, scheme trumps players.
_____________________________________________
Agree! You have to play to your players strengths and put them in positions to make the right plays. Look at Aso they are not using him to his strengths and he looks lost half the time.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:41 pm
good posts up there YA.
JFB I think you’d agree that me using top 5 and bottom 5 is a better sample than your bottom 2 one seasons.
I agree with your post, I just posit that a 3-4 allows for more creativity, which you agree is important.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:41 pm
Bottom 2011 defenses:
Vikings 4-3
Bucs 4-3
Colts 4-3
Raiders 4-3
Giants 4-3
I’m sure it’s all a coincidence.
******************************
You are obviously going by ypg, yet you left out the Patriots (32nd), Packers (31st), and Bills (26th), all 3-4 teams.
Come on Man!!!!!
December 21st, 2011 at 8:41 pm
No one ever wonders if a 4-3 DE is going to drop into coverage, man-up on a player, or rush the passer.
Just more limited than a 3-4. Less creative. Need stars everywhere to make it work.
See 2010 Giants D vs 2011.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:43 pm
JFB I think you’d agree that me using top 5 and bottom 5 is a better sample than your bottom 2 one seasons.
****************************
Your bottom 5 was complete made-up bullshat.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&role=OPP&offensiveStatisticCategory=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&season=2011&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go
December 21st, 2011 at 8:43 pm
The Raiders defense in the 2002 roster had Chucky Woods, Rod Woodson, Romo, Eric Barton, John Parella and Sam Adams, Trace Armstrong, Keynon Coleman, Phil Bucks, and Tony Jr.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:43 pm
JFB
I’m going by points per game.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPointsPerGame/position/defense
December 21st, 2011 at 8:44 pm
When the opponent is at their own 2 with NO timeouts left and 2 mins to work with to score a TD to beat you, and your seasons on the line, and you’re at home, you should be able to stop them.
Even in my worst Raider nightmares did I think they would find a way to choke that game away.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:44 pm
# YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 6:19 pm
Curry is not a pass-rusher. TK is not a gap-eater, he’s more suited to a system where his job is to shed blockers. Henderson is not strong enough at the point of attack to be a base NT in a 3-4. Too tall, not enough leverage, too old to hold up for the entire season. Shaughnessy doesn’t have the build of a 3-4 OLB. Wimbley will disappear again like he did in Cleveland if the Raiders start using him as a 3-4 rush LB since he has only one pass rush move. Houston is best suited to be a 4-3 3-tech, same with Bryant.
The switch to 3-4 is not as clear cut as some of you are making it seem.
^^^^^^^
Oh I agree! If the Raiders switch to a 3-4, they still need some pieces.
They would probably have to add players who have played in 3-4 defenses before through Free Agency and then let some existing players go or trade them for mid round picks before the draft, so they draft some 3-4 D players.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:44 pm
Zopi, excellent point!
The only time our 4-3 has worked was when we had multiple Hall of Famers and proven Pro Bowlers on it.
Not a scheme-friendly D.
Look at Giants, Bucs, and Vikings once they lost a few players.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:45 pm
JFB
I’m going by points per game.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPointsPerGame/position/defense
December 21st, 2011 at 8:45 pm
Scheme is important. Having quality players is even more important.
Keep reading that a switch to 3-4 will benefit McClain.
Maybe.
Keep watching the Stafford run for a first down and I’m convinced McClain isn’t a quality player.
Unhindered look at the play developing right in front of him. Absolutely, completely unblocked.
Absolute, complete WHIFF.
Any competent LB makes that tackle. Game over.
When you have an open look at the play developing right in front of you, are completely unblocked – and can’t even lay a glove on Matthew Freaking Stafford – something is seriously wrong. That wasn’t Barry Sanders he was trying to tackle.
McClain must go.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:46 pm
# Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
i also think the scheme aspect is over hyped. Players here are under performing and that is the bottom line
^^^^^^^
Having the right system and scheme sure as heck helps!
Plus having a competent D Coordinator is a MUST in this league now!
December 21st, 2011 at 8:48 pm
What works against the Bresnahan D is whatever the opposing coach feels like doing.
It’ll ALL work.
You wanna run? Her’s 6 yds. a carry. You’ll be fine.
You wanna pass cuz you’re a little short on time? Okay. No problem. You can have as many yards as you want. Especially with the game on the line.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Did anyone see that pimpin, azz licking, 3 inch skull thicken, Cro-Magnon Fag slow kissing with CP ???? hmmmmm…..
Yeah baby, ole hue has gone from 11th overall (last year) to 27th overall (this year) and I don’t care if it’s 4/3 or 3/4; fire his sub-par ebony bootie.
Now that trash, stank AL, former God and Genius, is being feasted upon by worms, (and rightly so) maybe Mark will have balls big enough to blow up the whole team, hire the best GM, head coach, OC, DC, and attendant sub-coaches, and return to glory.
Frack Stank AL, and his Uncle Tom head coach.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:49 pm
Well there definately is a trend towards 3-4 succeeding more, but like I said, the Packers actually line up in a 2-4-5 more than a 3-4 and so is this case for many other teams.
There is no base “3-4″ or “4-3″ in today’s NFL.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:50 pm
What the eff is wrong with the Raiders? I don’t know how hthey could lsoe teh Detroit game. WTF LOL I almos t forgo tabout that game. Now I’m pissed!
Im a bit drunk.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Raider players with experience in a 3-4:
Seymour, Curry, McClain, Wimbley, Kelly (from Ryan days)…not a complete lost cause personnel-wise.
But again, as the Texans have shown, you can teach it quickly.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:51 pm
Al D. Davis Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 8:48 pm
Did anyone see that pimpin, azz licking, 3 inch skull thicken, Cro-Magnon Fag slow kissing with CP ???? hmmmmm…..
Yeah baby, ole hue has gone from 11th overall (last year) to 27th overall (this year) and I don’t care if it’s 4/3 or 3/4; fire his sub-par ebony bootie.
Now that trash, stank AL, former God and Genius, is being feasted upon by worms, (and rightly so) maybe Mark will have balls big enough to blow up the whole team, hire the best GM, head coach, OC, DC, and attendant sub-coaches, and return to glory.
Frack Stank AL, and his Uncle Tom head coach.
———–
Are you on drugs?
December 21st, 2011 at 8:52 pm
JFB,
I’m 100% ok with the Raiders mixing in a 3-4 and a 4-3, hybrid systems just give opponents more to think about.
Funny how Hue couldn’t have said what’s printed up there before Mr. Davis passed.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:53 pm
You guys can scheme all you want, and some of you have gone into great detail and it’s impressive the knowledge some of you have, but it’s all gonna come down to what Hue and the DC wants to do. Does he see some of these things?
If Bresnahan is the D coordinator next year than we will be worse than where we are now.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:53 pm
After 30 NFL games, Darren McFadden was a more inept RB than Rolando has been as a MLB. Same with DHB as a WR.
So let’s all take a deep breath on Rolando until this time next year.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:55 pm
I was thinking bout moving to Oaklnad and dressing up as Austin Powers but in silver and black. I would get season tickets and carry a sign that says “Yeah Baby!”. Do you think I could get on tv? I wold be famous.
December 21st, 2011 at 8:58 pm
DJohnny,
I’m excited that Hue has turned this team into his vision, and being that he tried to recruit guys from the Ravens and Jets last year, I’m confident we’ll be fine.
Hue saw how bad Chuck was in Cincy, and now again here.
Mr. Davis’ meddling is what kept top D-coordinators from here.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:00 pm
true JFB. And what helped McFadden was Hue tailoring DMC’s runs to what he had done well in college.
Placing Rolando in the D he succeeded at in Alabama would likely be logical.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:00 pm
likewise
December 21st, 2011 at 9:06 pm
“We’ve had some issues with the last drive where we haven’t finished,” Sheppard said. “If we had, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.”
—
But you didn’t. That’s why we’re having this conversation.
Here’s another one for you Lito- If you guys could’ve just elevated your defense to AVERAGE, you might have made the playoffs.
You guys DO make a little more $$$ if you make the playoffs.
Does that help inspire you at all? C’mon, I know it does. Maybe just a little?
December 21st, 2011 at 9:10 pm
Chucky Woods should be a sure HOF, Romo as well, the modern-day medicine football man.
Romo’s boar hunters on roids, err, supplements. That’s what’s needed for the last two games.
The joke with Jim Domey and Rat-to on boar hunters and bacon eaters. The Raiders are playing more like customers on a deli-counter. I say they’re playing more like the people in line outside the taco food truck on 22nd. Ave. around 3:00 AM.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:12 pm
hmmmmmm, tacos
December 21st, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Raiders should look at Dean Pees, Baltimore’s LBs coach. Top 10 defense in points allowed as a DC with the Patriots 4 consecutive years.
My top candidates:
Dean Pees
Jack Del Rio
Steve Spagnuolo
Mike Nolan
Dennis Thurman
Winston Moss
Defensive free agents the Raiders should look at: Mario Williams, Barrett Ruud, Red Bryant, Jarrett Johnson, Paul Soliai, Aubrayo Franklin, D’Qwell Jackson, Cortland Finnegan, Manny Lawson, Michael Griffin.
Defensive players in the draft the Raiders should look at trading up for: DT Alameda Ta’amu, DT Dontari Poe, CB Leonard Johnson
December 21st, 2011 at 9:20 pm
On that note, if the Raiders can’t find an RB in the draft (I like VT’s David Wilson a lot), they should strongly consider making a run at Matt Forte (he seems to be pissed at the Bears for how they handled him in a contract year).
I’d say Marshawn Lynch, but the Seahawks won’t let him go.
BenJarvus Green-Ellis could be a nice rotational back. I think he’s underrated. Tough runner.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:22 pm
awesome post, YA, 260.
I’d love more Barrett Ruud and Jarrett Johnson-types that are just solid, smart football players, and fewer uber-athletes with low football smarts.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:25 pm
hopefully Hue’s Baltimore connections help the way his Bengals connection landed Palmer.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:26 pm
There aren’t a lot of solid free agents available at offensive tackle. Any building there will have to come in-house or through the draft. I like LSU’s Alex Hurst and Florida’s Xavier Nixon (might not declate) as mid-round prospects. But the Raiders have DL, LB, and RB to address first and foremost. They need more picks, one way or another.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:27 pm
Awesome post from all of you tonight.
Made for some good reading.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:28 pm
fortunately, RB can be addressed adequately in 4th through 6th rounds. Dime-a-dozen position.
Too bad we’ll likely only get a 5th for Asomugha and a 6th for Gallery due to their unimpressive seasons.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:28 pm
Jarrett Johnson is a VERY underrated player for Baltimore. Plays SLB and LDE as well as anyone in the league. Not sure where he fits in with Kamerion Wimbley here – maybe Wimbley moves to the blind side if the Raiders do switch to a 3-4?
December 21st, 2011 at 9:29 pm
The compensatory picks are based on playing time, if I’m not mistaken. Should get a 3 and a 4 for Aso and Gallery, respectively. Unfortunately those won’t come until the very end of both rounds.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:32 pm
Personally, I’d like the Raiders to pick up a couple RBs in this draft, as insurance not only for Bush possibly leaving, but McFadden almost certainly getting injured again.
David Wilson
Doug Martin
Cyrus Gray
LaMichael James (injury history, though)
Bernard Pierce
Daniel Herron
Marc Tyler
December 21st, 2011 at 9:39 pm
98 yards, no time outs, and they do it in a minute and a half. D can not stop this from happening, all to easy. Something is seriously broken. Needs fixing.
Bring in Rio, give him full reign, and proclaim that the Alemeda practice facility is a BULLSCHIT FREE ZONE and see where that takes you. Hell, bring back Marshall. WTF!
December 21st, 2011 at 9:47 pm
Obviously…
December 21st, 2011 at 9:48 pm
The top two defenses in the NFL, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, both run a 3-4 defense.
Davis was running an antiquated defense that needs to be changed.
December 21st, 2011 at 9:50 pm
Hue hasn’t had a chance to build a defense yet. Why would you bring in Del Rio before Hue’s even had a crack at it? Hue’s first off season will be the forthcoming one.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:02 pm
# alex7 Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 8:21 pm
Seymour
isn’t it funny how no matter WHO the Ravens, Steelers, and Eagles of the past had, the D would always be awesome?
Either:
a) they were incredibly lucky in always drafting and signing the right players.
or
b) the scheme made it work, regardless of who they brought in.
========================================
I think it is a little bit of a and a little bit of b. At the pro level to be really an elite defense you need both. And the reason you need both is because the guys on the other side of the line of scrimmage are normally world class athletes that are incredibly disciplined and well coached.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:11 pm
249,drugs wont help that guy/gal,poc,scumbag,imo
December 21st, 2011 at 10:14 pm
Well, my Christmas list is done. Finally.
I wish all my fellow bloggers, Jerry and Steve included, the most Happiest and Joyest Christmas! The times as they are, some will do with little, some will do with more, but Christmas is not about taking score. It is about blogging in to friends, bustin chops when needed, or sometimes not. But we here in this blog provide ourselves with poise, tact, funny antics, and sometimes, down right serious stuff that hurts.
We lost our dear leader, Al Davis, the pain has not worn off. He will be missed, by the true at heart, for a lifetime. I hope the team will continue, by his family, with Al’s true spirit at heart.
We, as RAIDER NATION, are the most diverse and most driven to be the best that our team can be. We fly the flag, we live by it’s credence, “Commitment To Excellence”. Is there no better way to live?
Although we all come from all walks of life, and travel along lifes pathways, we unite when our Silver and Black take the field, and re-unite us in our challenge to take what is ours! The Lombardy! Thank you Al for my early schooling!
So, my Christmas gift this year is for my Raiders to do the best they can do this year, my bloggers to have a prosperous and healthy, New Year, and we go back to fighting next year! j/k
Bro’s n Gal’s, have a good Holliday Season, good health, and Raider On!!!!!!!!!!!! CODE BLACK!!!!!
December 21st, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Hasnt Ruud sucked this year? I think that rookie Colin Mccarthy has out played him.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:21 pm
post 860Todd Christensen,thank you,same to you and youres,and take note,you represent the greatness of the RAIDERS,those were the days,and they will return,Merry Christmas
December 21st, 2011 at 10:22 pm
Hendu. peace be with you, enjoy the hollidays!
December 21st, 2011 at 10:24 pm
“If we weren’t on pace to set a new NFL record for penalties for a single season, I think this team would be better than 7-7.”
Regarding penalites: penalities of the stupid kind (no need to define those as we have talked about them ad nauseam) are the result of poor impulse control. Poor impulse control correlates to low IQ.
We have too many slooooooooow (yes, dull-witted) players. Al paid no attention to getting smart guys. It matters and it matters on defense as much as on offense.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:24 pm
spelling correction: “penalties”
December 21st, 2011 at 10:27 pm
270.Snowflake and Clambake Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 9:39 pm
98 yards, no time outs, and they do it in a minute and a half. D can not stop this from happening, all to easy. Something is seriously broken. Needs fixing.
Bring in Rio, give him full reign, and proclaim that the Alemeda practice facility is a BULLSCHIT FREE ZONE and see where that takes you. Hell, bring back Marshall. WTF!
—
It’s not JUST that they allowed an opponent to do that, it’s WHEN they allowed it that speaks volumes about that defense.
It speaks to desire, heart, will, guts……everything. I thought at first it might be a stretch to say, but I can’t help but mention “character” as well.
I’ve seen a heck of a lot in my yrs. as a Raider fan but i don’t think i’ve ever been more let down and disappointed on so many levels with this team.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:31 pm
278.hendu Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 10:21 pm
post 860Todd Christensen,thank you,same to you and youres,and take note,you represent the greatness of the RAIDERS,those were the days,and they will return,Merry Christmas
—
He is not THE Todd Christiansen. But that was a nice greeting.
I agree Todd was a great player imo.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:31 pm
280.luvmarvhub Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 10:24 pm
“If we weren’t on pace to set a new NFL record for penalties for a single season, I think this team would be better than 7-7.”
Regarding penalites: penalities of the stupid kind (no need to define those as we have talked about them ad nauseam) are the result of poor impulse control. Poor impulse control correlates to low IQ.
We have too many slooooooooow (yes, dull-witted) players. Al paid no attention to getting smart guys. It matters and it matters on defense as much as on offense.
—————————————————-
Ok, MR, I’ll bite.
How about an aggressive line ready to spring, like a tightly wound spring? Take the offensive. Beat your guy. Sack the QB. We’ve always had the penalties, I’l always take the aggressiveness. They call it Raider Football, get used to it, or get out, simple!
December 21st, 2011 at 10:34 pm
Dj, Todd was the dardest working hurt player in Raider history, how can you not admire him. Look at the pansies we have to deal with today? If it was 3rd and anything, Todd got er done, period!
December 21st, 2011 at 10:39 pm
Guy Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 10:21 pm
Hasnt Ruud sucked this year? I think that rookie Colin Mccarthy has out played him.
————-
Played well for the first half of the season before going down for the season with a groin injury. McCarthy’s play makes Ruud likely to be looking for a new job in the offseason.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:40 pm
#285,
I agree. I wish we had more guys like him. “Character” guys who really want to win and will do what needs to be done to make it happen.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:51 pm
# YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 9:16 pm
Raiders should look at Dean Pees, Baltimore’s LBs coach. Top 10 defense in points allowed as a DC with the Patriots 4 consecutive years.
My top candidates:
Dean Pees
Jack Del Rio
Steve Spagnuolo
Mike Nolan
Dennis Thurman
Winston Moss
Defensive free agents the Raiders should look at: Mario Williams, Barrett Ruud, Red Bryant, Jarrett Johnson, Paul Soliai, Aubrayo Franklin, D’Qwell Jackson, Cortland Finnegan, Manny Lawson, Michael Griffin.
Defensive players in the draft the Raiders should look at trading up for: DT Alameda Ta’amu, DT Dontari Poe, CB Leonard Johnson
^^^^^^^
If they go to a 3-4, than Pees, Nolan, Thurman and Moss are the guys to get.
If they remain in a 4-3 that is actually scheme diverse and disciplined, than Spagnolo and Del Rio are the ones to get.
I think Raven LB coach Dean Pees would be a fantastic pickup as the new DC if they switch to a 3-4. He has been around great 3-4 defenses and he knows what the hell he is doing and has learned from the best!
Getting Paul Solial would be great signing also as well as Franklin.
In the draft, Poe and Johnson would be great pickups, if we convert to 3-4.
December 21st, 2011 at 10:56 pm
Alright YoungAmerican cause I read on PFF that Ruud struggled in coverage this year on a couple of the refocusesm just wasn’t sure. Also read that Vilma has been really bad against the run since joining the Saints, worst 4-3 mlb (ouch).
Btw, what would you think of Curry as a 3-4 ILB? He seems to be best seeing the action in front of him rather than running and trying to cover
December 21st, 2011 at 10:58 pm
We’re the Raider Defense.
“You can count on us to be at our worst…when it matters most”
December 21st, 2011 at 10:59 pm
Bottom line, if the Raiders plan on going to a more 3-4 scheme next year, than the blueprint to follow is what Houston did last off season.
Hire an experienced and good 3-4 DC in Phillips.
Than pick some free agent players on D who have experience playing in 3-4 defenses and then draft players like JJ Watt and Brooks Reed that excel in 3-4 schemes.
Hell, I was screaming for the Raiders to look at Reed in the 2nd round last year and have him play that WOLB spot and be the LDE spot in certain pass rush situations.
December 21st, 2011 at 11:00 pm
I think Curry would be a excellent 3-4 ILB along side McClain. They just need to be coached and up!
December 21st, 2011 at 11:02 pm
Would Shaughnessy bulk up to be a 3-4 end or be a big OLB like Mario Williams?
December 21st, 2011 at 11:03 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if Hue mentioning 3-4 scheme means he and Bresnahan are going to implement 3-4 packages in this game against Chiefs.
December 21st, 2011 at 11:12 pm
Building a team on free agency in this day and age doesn’t work too well. Teams are generally smarter on keeping the truely good players.
Usually free agency results in bidding up role players as starters. Then, as the Eagles learned, it takes time for those players to figure it out.
Not excited about trading away all the picks. Team has a lot of hoes…..well, lets roll the free agent wheel
December 22nd, 2011 at 12:10 am
post 74 (deon sanders)
December 22nd, 2011 at 3:36 am
At the start of the season I was all for getting Wade Phillips or Mike Nolan but was told they were both 3-4 not 4-3 coaches.
Not trying to make out I’ve got football smarts (because I haven’t) – just wondering what might have been.
December 22nd, 2011 at 3:40 am
Post276……
Very well said.
December 22nd, 2011 at 4:56 am
Mornin.
What’s this about Bush having an injured shoulder?
I don’t remember hearing anything about it.
December 22nd, 2011 at 5:13 am
Don’t worry, it’s just a nick :p
December 22nd, 2011 at 5:50 am
A question for Steve/Jerry please?
You were good enough to push and push about Terrelle Pryor updates from both Hue and Terrelle. But there’s one thing missing…
When you guys actually attend Raiders practice, do you see Pryor running the second team offense? Do you see him ever take first team snaps? And how does he look TO YOU in those practices? Does he look like he ‘could’ start, or woeful and needs more time? etc.
Like when you’re at training camp and giving updates, relaying your own observations about how certain players are performing, etc.
Thanks a million if you can provide info on it this week and also next week.
December 22nd, 2011 at 5:53 am
Tinker,Tailer is a good film but you’re better off reading the book or watching the BBC version with Alec Guinness.
December 22nd, 2011 at 5:55 am
……and what position is he playing and in what formation.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:04 am
Neilb…
He’d be taking snaps at QB, that’s what he is on the roster, and learning the playbook from a QBs perspective (learning how to call the plays in the huddle, learning the protections)
“I’m really getting used to the speed of the game from the defensive perspective of getting in on me. I can say the plays and I got everything down,” Pryor said. “I know the protections. It took me about two or three months.”
All QB-related stuff.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:12 am
GG…..
I know he wants to thought of as a QB.Just wanted a look at him as a WR or playing in the wildcat.See what options he might give the team.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:20 am
Just Beat the Chefs….
Merry Christmas Raider Fans..
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:25 am
Anyone seen this btw?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81ZkGOaCaiM
Jon Gruden when Raiders HC, breaking down a 3rd and 3 play he called that year.
‘3rd and 3′ being the key phrase.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:27 am
Neilb, yeah it’s all good, that’s also a valid question for Steve/Jerry to answer…if Pryor has taken any snaps at WR as well and how he looked.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:38 am
Btw, in that video, you can see how convoluted calling plays are, having to remember all plays in a playbook, and intricate things inside all plays that separate the good QBs from the bad ones. In this case, the intricate things are ensuring the slot receiver is lined up correctly (east right), and how as part of the play the QB has to quickly read and look at the Z receiver to assess whether to cut off his 5 step drop to a 3 step drop and hit that receiver, or, pump fake and finish off a 5 step drop and instead progress thru to his slot receiver, then to his TE.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:44 am
Would be interesting to see the “bed and breakfast” break down of a play.
Take the snap,7 steps back,get your bell rung.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:44 am
Was playing with that playoff machine thing on ESPN to gauge our wildcard chances.
I believe, if we win this weekend, and the Jets, Titans and Bengals lose, that we will control our own destiny week 17.
I am 97% on this.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:47 am
The scribes only get to see the first 45 minutes or so of practice.
Steve said in a live-chat a few weeks ago that Pryor has an unnatural throwing motion and throws wobblers.
Pretty safe to say that was an Al pick that will probably never matriculate.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:50 am
Jets play the Giants than in Miami, so decent chance they could lose both.
Forgot who the Bungels play this week, but the Ravens week 17.
Path to the wildcard is where it is at for us.
Don’t see the Donks losing at home to the Chiefs.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:51 am
There is this break down lol, the memories…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knrqGfGO4dk
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:55 am
Pretty safe to say that was an Al pick that will probably never matriculate.
**************************
Yeah, have to agree. Maybe there is some hope for him, if he works with a great QB coach to develop his mechanics, similar to what Tebow needs to do. Thinking Pryor is our future is a bit of a pipe dream IMO though.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:57 am
Then again JFB, me and you are the only ones who believe BCampbell won’t even make the team next year…
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:57 am
He might’ve thrown a wobbler, but not like all he did was throw wobblers. Mechanics can be corrected. Pryor’s ‘unusual’ part is the small wind-up and flicking motion with his feet not in the traditional sideways stance and transference of lower-leg and hip swivel.
But look at Pryor @ Ohio, especially in pro-style formations. Him under center, 5 step drops, setting and throwing. Or play-action roll-outs and throws. All things that we do often in Oakland. And Pryor looks very competent and throws great spirals.
The main problem naturally (as with all dual threat QBs) is he takes too long in the pocket and then has to resort to running around. That stuff doesn’t work in the NFL. Which is why Pryor said he was learning more and more about how the defensive gets in on him…meaning learning to make his drops, go thru his progression and quick release, that timer in his head.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:58 am
Our personnel isn’t too far away right now from being able to run a 3-4.
NT: Henderson (all we have unfortunately)
***
GG,
John Henderson balked at the idea of playing 3-4 NT before we signed him and he was talking to other teams
2 years older and about 15 injuries later, I doubt he’s changed his mind on that.
with no draft picks, I doubt we’re switching to a 3-4 unless you guys predict some starter quality NT’s will be available in FA.
Doubtful, since about 7 NT’s got slapped with a franchise tag the last full offseason we had. These guys are in high demand
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:58 am
I think a 3rd round pick for Pryor was an appropriate risk, but I doubt he evolves into anything but a cautionary tale.
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:59 am
good morning AM crew!
coffee is on me today … Merry Christmas
time 4 work
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:59 am
Coffee on Rockstar?
Gabby, I’ll take a double in a to-go cup!!!
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:01 am
Rob Ryan: I’ll get a head-coaching job, but that doesn’t motivate me
Posted by Michael David Smith (PFT)
Cowboys defensive coordinator Rob Ryan wants to be a head coach, and he thinks he will be a head coach. But he says that’s not what he’s thinking about with the Cowboys fighting for the NFC East title.
“That’s great, but the bottom line is we’re here together to win a championship and that’s why Jason [Garrett] hired me and that’s why Jerry [Jones] hired me,” Ryan said, via the Dallas Morning News. “That’s what we’re going to do. Trust me, I’m not all motivated just to be a head coach because, hey, that’s going to happen.”
Ryan said the job he has now is a job he could be happy having for a long time.
“I love it here,” he said. “I love these guys. Everything is great. Bottom line is we’re real happy here. My family is happy here. We want to win and we got the players to do it.”
Of course, if Ryan’s defense plays against the Eagles on Saturday the way it played against the Eagles in October, when Philadelphia won 34-7, no one will be talking about Ryan as a head-coaching candidate. And some people will be questioning whether he even deserves to keep his job as defensive coordinator.
***
Oakland bound, baby!
it takes a bully to build a bully – print it
Hue Jackson is feminine
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:03 am
with no draft picks, I doubt we’re switching to a 3-4 unless you guys predict some starter quality NT’s will be available in FA.
*****************
Actually there are a few, Antonio Garay, Aubrayo Franklin, Sione Pouha, Kelly Gregg, Paul Soliai are all free agents.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:03 am
12/22/2011 5:50AM
Raiders travel to Kansas City
Raider pre-game report:
Raider emotional stock plummetted last week with the total collapse of the Raider defense. The failure and the chaos as a result of the collapse has kept the emotioanl value of the stock very low all week.
The worth of the defensive side of the Raider emotion is very little to none. Investors are treating the stock as a wait and see, and the loss of dumping the stock all together is not even worth it. Raider ownership have been scratching their asses this week trying to figure out how to turn this thing around, but reports have failed to increase any emotional confidence at all.
Back end loads are more costly that the stock itself. No dividends have been paid out this week. The downtick has been alarming and has caused panic among shareholders. Floating is at a all time high. One concern is the January effect will turn any emotional value into junk bonds, which is not good at all, considering the overall cost of monies poured out this season. Raiders have even fallen from the Russell 2000 index and expect trouble on their short term emotional value debts.
But as always, as game time approaches, emotioanl rising will occur, albiet slower than normal. This weekends emotional value finish should determine the stocks worth for short term (1 week) or long term thru-out the off season. Emotional value investors will be very skeptical however.
On a side note, there has been no activity or movement at all on the Raider prediction Q score board this week, evidence of low to zero value right now, another sign of absolute bewilderment of pure failure at its best after Lechler had pinned the Lions down at the 1 and a half yard line and Detroit moved with ease to take the win, sending the hearts of all Raider fans down the toilet.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:04 am
Good Morning Naion!!!
Thanks Rockstar! Gabby, give me a double this morning!
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:08 am
What I meant by post #317 is in reply to JFB’s “safe to say” pryor wont matriculate. No one can safely say now whether he will or wont. I’m big on Pryor, but I don’t say “for sure”. And those who hated Pryor in Ohio, can’t say “safe to say” either.
He’s just turned 22. He didn’t get in thru training camp, but midway and has got the playbook down in three months. He’s a good studier and works hard. Plus great athleticism. That’s already 100x better than what Russell was.
Obviously Palmer will be starter in 2012, but his time is limited and thus be in need of an understudy QB to develop into the replacement long-term starter. We have that guy on the team – Terrelle Pryor. Can’t start looking elsewhere without giving him 2-3 years opportunity of being a starter let alone the 1-2 years him learning under Palmer. And I’m sure when Pryor becomes a better option than Palmer, Palmer will hang around as back-up vet and continue to mentor him. Good cushy lifestyle for Palmer home-state California.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:09 am
RaiderRockstar Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 6:58 am
Our personnel isn’t too far away right now from being able to run a 3-4.
NT: Henderson (all we have unfortunately)
***
GG,
John Henderson balked at the idea of playing 3-4 NT before we signed him and he was talking to other teams
2 years older and about 15 injuries later, I doubt he’s changed his mind on that.
with no draft picks, I doubt we’re switching to a 3-4 unless you guys predict some starter quality NT’s will be available in FA.
Doubtful, since about 7 NT’s got slapped with a franchise tag the last full offseason we had. These guys are in high demand
—-
Yep, I agree with you. Henderson isn’t a 3-4 NT, and is long in the tooth. Just saying in a pinch right now we are “not far” from a 3-4. We’re especially close at ILB, OLB and DE. Just the NT really that is needed.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:16 am
I see Jason Campbell playing for the Cleveland Browns next season. He certainly won’t be in Oakland.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:20 am
BAA HUMBUG….
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:22 am
Jason Campbell will get interest especially as they’ll look back, see he had us 4-2, and then see that Palmer didn’t improve that figure. Also the way JC stayed a consummate professional and has been active in the community.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:22 am
*get interest from other teams. He wont return to Oakland.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:29 am
SORRY FOLKS,STILL HAVING CALVIN JOHNSON FLASHBACKS..WONDER IF PRYOR CAN PLAY SAFTY OR CORNER ?
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:32 am
Reggie Wayne wont be in Indy next year. There’s another free agent vet #1 receiver we could have.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:34 am
Raiders 20, Chiefs 13
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:39 am
The good thing about Pryor is that, from afar, he seems to have that DHB mentality of wanting to soak up everything and really improve his game. Seems like the anti-JaMarcus.
Don’t know if he’ll have the skillset to play NFL QB. He may, but I think it’ll take time. In the meantime, maybe Hue could start using him a little like the Steelers used Kordell “Slash” Stewart back in the day. Some receiving. Some straight running. Some option. And some throwing. If he’s that great of a playmaker, get the ball in his hands 5-10 times per game while grooming him to play QB.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:44 am
I have a feeling that if we can get to 9-7 we’ll get in. No guarantees. But my gut feeling is the odds are better than 50%.
Of course, getting to 9-7 won’t be all that easy. Two division games. Traveling to KC where they just handled an undefeated Packers team and are playing for their new HC. Then hosting a SD team that’s blown the doors off three straight opponents and Rivers suddenly looks like himself again. Both teams are still alive in the division.
I guess we’ll get to see what this team is made of.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:45 am
That’s another good point Chris in NY. Hue often talked early about having all these great offensive tools, and giving them plays/packages to get them involved, be more explosive etc. Even a limited Pryor like we have now (at QB, option, WR) would provide some more outlets, defensive indecision etc.
Hue has madly fallen in love with Palmer and as said himself, he’s never considered playing Pryor even in late game blowouts because it’s all about getting Palmer his love-child more and more chemistry and reps with the offense. That’s all fine and dandy, but there’s still room for creativity, some trickeration, and finding ways to use healthy highly athletic playmakers.
Eg, we’ve been struggling forever at WR, injuries, putting Pryor out there running a few routes, getting a feel of the game etc.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:49 am
Mornin’ Nation.
I thought Pryor could succeed after 2 or 3 years of development before Palmer arrives. But Cork has said Pryor is sticking to Palmer to a degree that’s probably borderline stalking.
I love it. The kid badly wants to succeed. I hope the new GM doesn’t trade him away for a handful of magic beans.
I really think the old man was right: be patient, his time will come.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:54 am
My one concern with Pryor is, how long is a kid that’s been “the man” — a national celebrity since high school — going to patiently sit and wait? Can he stay this motivated when he’s three, four years into his career and he’s still a backup?
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:56 am
Chris in NY Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:54 am
My one concern with Pryor is, how long is a kid that’s been “the man” — a national celebrity since high school — going to patiently sit and wait? Can he stay this motivated when he’s three, four years into his career and he’s still a backup?
+++++++++++++++++
Depends on how much he took Al’s advice to heart. For now, I’ll stay optimistic.
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:58 am
He’s young (22) and that’s natural of him to get antsy and want to get involved asap. Tho he also understands to “wait his turn” as he said above, and as he said Al told him several times. Which shows too how he’d just like to get into a training camp, get a lot of reps running an offense and show what he can do. Sounds like Hue ain’t giving him any opportunity whatsoever, especially since the Palmer trade and focusing everything on getting Palmer up to speed for that “it’s all about winning this year while we have a good 4-2/7-4 record”. But the wheels fell off that idea pretty quickly
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:01 am
Sounds like Hue ain’t giving him any opportunity whatsoever,
+++++++++++++
I dunno. I think the fact that Hue hasn’t converted him to WR now that Al’s gone shows he believes in Pryor’s future as QB too.
Pryor’s not close to be anything resembling a starter right now. Not playing him is less refusing to give him an opportunity than it is an attempt to save him from embarrassment and keep his confidence.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:03 am
I think, unless he is as bad as Steve likes you to believe, Pryor will be our back up next year. I am excited to see this kid in the preseason next year, I truly hope he proves me wrong, but I just wasn’t fond of the pick.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:05 am
Reggie will end up with the Pats.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:06 am
I was lsitening to the interview with Hue on “The Fan” and the host made asked some interesting questions.
He asked about playcalling from last sundays loss.
Hue said he thought the team played well enough not to go for the 2 point conversion and said that’s life in the NFL. No gaurantee to even make the 2 point conversion. Also he said the 4th down play he would do it again and wasn’t a bad call.
Also the host asked Hue about players complaining about the scheme after the game.
Hue said he sat 1 player down earlier in the year complaining about the scheme and it’s not the scheme that’s the problem.. Players need to make plays.
I agree to an extent, Players need to make plays, but the scheme does have players out of position. I hope Hue hasn’t lost the locker room.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:06 am
Fair point. But I don’t think that’s Pryor’s mentality at all. Like Chris said before, he has that DHB attitude, negativity and bad things don’t get to him, he just wants to get experience and hungry to improve. Such that in late game blow-outs vs Dolphins and Packers, there would’ve been no reason not to give Pryor some snaps. But again, it was still about getting Palmer every single possible snap and more snaps to acclimate more and more.
Anyway, i dont disagree either. Pryor’s ‘time’ starts in training camp 2012. But if we do end up missing the playoffs midway thru this Chiefs game (getting blown out early) or before the week 17 chargers game, would still want to see Pryor. Eg, Chargers game play the whole game (if we’re out of the playoffs).
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:07 am
Just a couple of reminder notes regarding this week’s games and our playoff chances:
- Win, and we’re alive when we kick off on 1/1/2012 no matter what else happens.
- The Broncos-Bills game looks essentially meaningless to us now. Whether or not the Donks beat the Bills, we will have to win out and have KC beat Denver in Week 17 to win the division. Us going 9-7 and Denver losing to KC is our only formula to take the division. A Denver win might actually help us in that it could help snuff out SD’s playoff hopes and give them nothing to play for against us in Wk 17.
- Who you should be rooting for: Giants; Jaguars; Cardinals. Those are the teams we need to win to boost our Wild Card standing.
- You can also root for the Lions to help eliminate any playoff motivation the Chargers may have going into Week 17, but — like the Broncos-Bills game — that one doesn’t really affect our path either.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:07 am
Don’t get to watch any college games – what’s Pryor like running the ball?
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:11 am
neilb Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:07 am
Don’t get to watch any college games – what’s Pryor like running the ball?
—-
Identical to Cam Newton. Here’s a sample of Pryor Ohio highlights…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EulYKdokw48
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:14 am
I may be wrong, but I believe Giants over Jets; Jags over Titans; Cards over Bengals would allow us to control our own destiny.
The one thing I’m not sure of is if the Bengals came back in Wk 17 to beat Balt. They may still edge us out on a tiebreaker. Not sure about that though. I do know that a Bengals loss to Balt in Wk 17 combined with one Jets loss and one Titans loss would get us in at 9-7.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:15 am
Also the host asked Hue about players complaining about the scheme after the game.
Hue said he sat 1 player down earlier in the year complaining about the scheme and it’s not the scheme that’s the problem.. Players need to make plays.
********************
I didn’t hear of players questioning the scheme, which ones did? I believe they are correct, but Hue is doing the right thing also because players CAN’t be allowed to call out coaches publicly. The inmates don’t run the asylum.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:19 am
Orton is going to destroy Denver.
As long as we handle our business, we’re in.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:19 am
Didn’t say which players were questioning the scheme, but here’s the link. It’s also on the Raiders home website: 1140 The Fan.
http://www.raiders.com/media-vault/audio/Hue-Jackson-Show-12-21-11/6529e237-0bd8-4d96-903f-7898a2660d57
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:23 am
Naturally rooting hard for the scenarios to get us into the playoffs. But at the same time, all fault on us and Hue that we don’t already control or cemented a playoff spot.
At 7-4, to get blown out by the Dolphins and lose that Lions game, both games we would’ve prior to week 12 earmarked as wins, and more importantly, that the players and coaches felt were ‘must win’ games…is just unforgiveable. Hue’s gotta wear that, but he continues to palm off responsibility.
To go from 7-4 to 7-7, and the manner which we did, we don’t deserve to make the playoffs, and maybe in some 2012/GM kinda way, a silver lining if we dont. So that GM can blow up some things inside the roster and even admin. But naturally will be rooting to get into the playoffs and hope it somehow clicks enough we can win some games or go all the way.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:24 am
John David Booty Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:19 am
Orton is going to destroy Denver.
As long as we handle our business, we’re in.
———————————————
How awesome would it be to take care of San Diego at home while Orton derails the Denver Tebows and picks apart his old team.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:25 am
Good teams don’t slide and continue to play wishful thinking relying on scenarios, nor do they continue the “we’ve still got 3 weeks left to fix [insert problems], and we will eventually” speak.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:26 am
We don’t need to blow things up. We need a healthy McFadden and a top-notch DC. Those two things and we’re a Super Bowl favorite, IMO.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:29 am
Don’t think we’ll ever have a 16 game healthy Dmac.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:31 am
Don’t think we’ll ever have a 16 game healthy Dmac.
————
Never know. At one point, we thought DMAC might have been a bust and needed to be converted to slot receiver too.
Guys surprise you sometimes.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:32 am
No, just no Chris.
Super Bowl favorites happens after a number of consistent years being a regular playoff team, consistently winning 10+ games a season, being a team that goes toe to toe with the Steelers, Patriots, Packers, Ravens, Saints, highly competitive.
This team is still trying to break-thru the first threshold of getting their first winning season! It’s been a decade of 11+ losses, and 2 years of .500 struggling to get above that. That doesn’t make a super bowl FAVORITE.
Super Bowl surprise packet maybe, but not favorite.
Stuff needs to be blown up. Maybe not all, but a significant amount of it.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:33 am
A Denver win might actually help us in that it could help snuff out SD’s playoff hopes and give them nothing to play for against us in Wk 17.
+++++++++++++
A good point.
Actually, stealing that last Wild Card spot might actually be beneficial since the way things look now we’d travel to Houston where 1) we’ve won already and 2) they’ll be starting a 5th round rookie in the playoffs. Yates has played well, but that’s a lot of pressure.
Whereas if we win the division, it’s probably Pittsburgh coming to Oakland and that won’t go well.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:33 am
Antonio Garay, Aubrayo Franklin, Sione Pouha, Kelly Gregg, Paul Soliai are all free agents
***
who ???
Kelly Gregg was a stud for the Ravens 2 or 3 years ago. He’s pretty old now. Not doing much for KC, is he?
besides Franklin (who will have 4 or 5 teams after him) those other guys make Tommy Kelly look like a 5-year Pro Bowler in comparison
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:34 am
Fair point.I thought we should have got rid of DHB before the season started.Again shows you my football smarts or lack of them!
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:35 am
besides Franklin (who will have 4 or 5 teams after him) those other guys make Tommy Kelly look like a 5-year Pro Bowler in comparison
++++++++++++
Don’t sleep on Garay, man, he’s a good NT who also gets penetration behind the line.
Franklin was great for the Niners. He’s been less effective with the Saints this year, but that’s also playing in a 4-3 scheme.
Soliai will probably get franchised by the Fins. He’s really underrated.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:35 am
Hue, you watched all season while the DC lost games for us, and all you did was make excuses, accept blame. Do you know how many times we’ve heard about missed gap assignments, out of position defensive backs, missed interception opportunities, and not stopping the Bills at all in the second half, the KC blowout at home, how about the creation of Tebow game, now throw in the Miami, GB, and the last pitiful display of football in the Detroit game. Hue always defend his stupid chance taking plays, by claiming to being aggressive, but you’re really trying to be a hero by making a great call instead of coaching to win. We had Detroit pinned on their 2, if we bring pressure the quarterback will only have time for short throws, we either get the sack game over, or we make the tackle GAME OVER. You are responsible, you admitted that, so FIRE YOURSELF THEN loser, another flunky coach hired by Al
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:36 am
Reggie will end up with the Pats
***
Agreed. Chaz Schilens & TJ Housh will both be UFA’s and wont be retained
they will be replaced by (WAIT FOR IT)
Chad OchoCinco – unfortunately!!!
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:36 am
who ???
Kelly Gregg was a stud for the Ravens 2 or 3 years ago. He’s pretty old now. Not doing much for KC, is he?
besides Franklin (who will have 4 or 5 teams after him) those other guys make Tommy Kelly look like a 5-year Pro Bowler in comparison
********************
You need to do a little more research on you NTs my friend…
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:37 am
Please not Chad.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:38 am
I’d rather we win the division and host the Steelers, a truly tough team to beat, then beat them and show we have the mettle.
Don’t like this girly “sneak in as WC so we have a 5th round rookie QB to play.”
Don’t mean that angrily, but to be a ‘bully’ (that hated word now) we have to be real men about it, have to want to meet the best and look forward to it, and beat them.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:39 am
they will be replaced by (WAIT FOR IT)
Chad OchoCinco – unfortunately!!!
+++++++++
Ugh.
There’s no way any GM will look at Ochocinco and want to bring him in, whatever Hue wants.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:40 am
Soliai will probably get franchised by the Fins. He’s really underrated.
***********************
Nah, Soliai was franchised this year by the phish. If they franchise him again he will be paid 120% of this years # which would but him at just shy of $15 million. Cant see that happening.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:40 am
Forget all the “what ifs” and just win the last two and see where it takes us.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:41 am
Don’t like this girly “sneak in as WC so we have a 5th round rookie QB to play.”
+++++++++++
I’d like to win and advance in the playoffs. Playing at Houston rather than hosting the Steelers seems to me to be the best way to do that. I could be wrong.
I do know this: you don’t get any special rewards for beating a really tough team.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:42 am
Ocho will be a patriot next year. He appears to finally be developing chemistry with Brady, and will have a whole offseason to work with him. He isn’t causing any problems up there and appears to be working very hard to get the offense down and in synch with Brady. They aren’t just going to dump him.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:42 am
Hue, gets to much respect. We say we don’t want to keep changing coaches, but we changed coaches a lot because real coaches wouldnt work or Al, so we got inferior coaches with old schemes that Al favored, when they failed as expected Al would fire them. Hue is the same, quit giving this clown credit, even Cable would have won 9 games with this team.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:42 am
Time to go .
Have a great Thursday everyone.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:44 am
huntdogg2 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:35 am
Hue always defend his stupid chance taking plays, by claiming to being aggressive, but you’re really trying to be a hero by making a great call instead of coaching to win. We had Detroit pinned on their 2, if we bring pressure the quarterback will only have time for short throws, we either get the sack game over, or we make the tackle GAME OVER. You are responsible, you admitted that, so FIRE YOURSELF THEN loser, another flunky coach
—
i do agree with this. unfortunately, we’re so accustomed to 11 losses a year, and bed and breakfast shamble offenses, and putrid D, there are portions of RaiderNation happy to accept mediocrity and .500 seasons and the “next year” syndrome that comes with it. Scared to blow things up, too attached to a Cable or Hue.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:46 am
SilverNBlackPA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:41 am
Don’t like this girly “sneak in as WC so we have a 5th round rookie QB to play.”
+++++++++++
I’d like to win and advance in the playoffs. Playing at Houston rather than hosting the Steelers seems to me to be the best way to do that. I could be wrong.
I do know this: you don’t get any special rewards for beating a really tough team.
—-
On your last point—yeah you do, you gain added self-belief that helps lift your game another gear or two. It’s still a girly thing to cross fingers hoping it’s Houston. Getting in at all is the main thing. And getting a division title to add to our list of franchise achievements to boot.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:55 am
i do agree with this. unfortunately, we’re so accustomed to 11 losses a year, and bed and breakfast shamble offenses, and putrid D, there are portions of RaiderNation happy to accept mediocrity and .500 seasons and the “next year” syndrome that comes with it. Scared to blow things up, too attached to a Cable or Hue.
**************
I am one of the biggest supporters of Hue, but that doesnt mean I am willing to accept mediocrity. Hue is a rookie HC, who had the lockout to contend with, lost the best D player and one of the best O players in FA, was thrust into the position of defacto GM when Al died, has had is offense completely crippled by injury, is saddled with a sub-par DC, and the leagues worst defense and has the teams playoff hopes alive in week 16. If I told you before the season that these were all the factors we would face would you guess our record would be 7-7 today… not likely. Hue has made a ton of mistakes, as MOST rookie HCs do. IF next year mirrors this year where we show flashes, but are consistantly inconsistant, I will agree that Hue needs to be dismissed, but I will never agree, no matter what that a rookie HC who dealt with ALL of this adversity needs to be fired now.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:57 am
Hue’s next move: deflect blame, he may even sacrifice Bresnahan, just to get another year at the helm. He’ll sound real positive for next year, but he will only deliver more of the same. Hue, isn’t a Raider he’s an employee, he don’t understand were long suffering, and want ours now. Hue reminds me of an adult opening up operating something before reading the manual. The team is bi polar, and the fans are starved and impatient.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:57 am
Hello Everyone, been reading the blog for a few years now and have finally decided to join the fun. Lifelong Raider fan from Mitchell SD. Hoping everyone has a fantastic day. I cant WAIT until we can hire a good DC, I think Hue is fine as a HC, just needs some guidance(a GM) and a real defense and we will be fine.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:57 am
Let’s not forget Hue’s debacle ‘trying to be a hero’ playcalling versus the Browns that almost cost us the game!!
And guess what about that game btw. That last Browns drive after the onside kick recovery. The Raiders held them to a four and out by being aggressive on D, blitzing some, (not totally spazoid), but bringing pressure and playing press coverage, no stupid match-ups occurring like McClain on the slot receiver.
We blew Bills and Lions the same ’soft coverage’ way. Almost blew the Texans game. Almost blew a few more others, games when top-line opposing players were out (peterson, forte, cutler). And pretty much every other game against a more ‘elite’ team we got smacked down hard, embarrassed, vindicating we don’t belong in their company. Even the Dolphins.
That’s the same kind of season that we had in 2010 under Cable. Blown games, ugly losses against bad teams, and blow outs against top teams. There’s been no progress. Stuff needs to be blown up.
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:59 am
I am one of the biggest supporters of Hue, but that doesnt mean I am willing to accept mediocrity. Hue is a rookie HC, who had the lockout to contend with, lost the best D player and one of the best O players in FA, was thrust into the position of defacto GM when Al died, has had is offense completely crippled by injury, is saddled with a sub-par DC, and the leagues worst defense and has the teams playoff hopes alive in week 16. If I told you before the season that these were all the factors we would face would you guess our record would be 7-7 today… not likely. Hue has made a ton of mistakes, as MOST rookie HCs do. IF next year mirrors this year where we show flashes, but are consistantly inconsistant, I will agree that Hue needs to be dismissed, but I will never agree, no matter what that a rookie HC who dealt with ALL of this adversity needs to be fired now.
********************************
Well said. No other rookie HC in the history of the game has been through what Hue has been through, he deserves another year at least. Continuity is key, anyone here that blasted Al for firing coaches every 2 years but is now calling for Hue’s head is a hypocrite.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:00 am
Calling Dr. Bombay
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:02 am
Just beat the Chefs and take it from there…. Speculate all you want… Nothing matters but beating the Chefs at this point…..
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:04 am
Fingers Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:02 am
Just beat the Chefs and take it from there…. Speculate all you want… Nothing matters but beating the Chefs at this point….
***************
Yep, its a 2 game season as it stands now. We need to be 1-0 both weeks, and need some help. But first order of business is to take care of business.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:04 am
huntdogg2 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:57 am
Hue’s next move: deflect blame, he may even sacrifice Bresnahan, just to get another year at the helm
++++++++++++
That’s exactly what he’ll do. And what he SHOULD do; Bres has got to go.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:06 am
Compare to Harbaugh. Immediately comes in, and on lockout season, and creates a top 5 D, gets the team playing at a consistently high standard, a standard that plays very competitively against the top teams.
This is the same roster/system for two years now, no progress. The roster is barren of playmakers on O and D. The play-calling on O and D is insipid for great slabs of time every game, and for many games in a year. There’s no discipline, lacking smarts. There’s questionable personnel moves made that have the players publicly and privately questioning it — hagan, boss, tj, dhb, etc. That means lockerroom problems. You have flip-flopping from the HC and BS-speak from the HC. HC also too enamored with the spotlight on himself.
Expect changes imo if we get a legit GM.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:06 am
That last Browns drive after the onside kick recovery. The Raiders held them to a four and out by being aggressive on D, blitzing some, (not totally spazoid), but bringing pressure and playing press coverage, no stupid match-ups occurring like McClain on the slot receiver.
+++++++++++++++++++
Could not agree more, well-said.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:07 am
Expect changes imo if we get a legit GM.
+++++++++
Tons of changes.
Here’s what I think happens:
Hue persuades the new GM to let him mold the team how he wants and he gets his shot for next year. But next year will be “playoffs or bust.”
Hell, even Eric Mangini got an audition year when Mike Holmgren took over the Browns GM job and everybody hated him.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:09 am
Also want to go on record and say here that even if the Raiders make a miracle run to the damn Super Bowl, I want Chuck B fired the next day.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:11 am
SilverNBlackPA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:09 am
Also want to go on record and say here that even if the Raiders make a miracle run to the damn Super Bowl, I want Chuck B fired the next day.
——————————-
Amen brother, Al shouldve never even considered giving this turd another go-round… He’s not good enough to wash the team’s jock straps, let alone be the DC…
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:12 am
Anyone think Oakland stands a chance at landing Reggie Wayne in the offseason??
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:13 am
The roster is barren of playmakers on O and D.
*************
On defense yes. On offense, when healthy????? Child please. We are stocked with playmakers on offense. Our defense is our weakness by far. Shore that up and we’d be at 10 wins already. Buffalo, Denver, and Detroit would all be wins and we’d have clinched a playoff spot by now.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:13 am
Look, im not against Hue returning another season, and under a GM, working in accord, giving it a chance. In all reality, that’s what will happen, and I (who now dislikes Hue) will be okay with that and continue forever to believe and cheer etc.
But i can also see the writing on the wall. As in the possibility that by then Hue is still shown the door after another letdown season, and GM tightens the screws to rebuild again.
Taking a step back next year, to take 2 or 3 steps forward in 2013, going straight to a 12-4 type of season due to a GM blowing it up in 2011. Especially likely as Hue/Al just recently lumped this GM with just a couple picks in the 2012 draft. Will take a year backwards before it can move forward faster the following years draft.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:14 am
Hue’s next move: deflect blame, he may even sacrifice Bresnahan, just to get another year at the helm. He’ll sound real positive for next year, but he will only deliver more of the same
***
Hunt,
Can you see us worse off than 7-7 at this point if Cable was retained another year as HC and Hue at OC?
me neither.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:15 am
Here’s the key to our playoff success (assuming we get in):
The season ends New Year’s Day. We’d either play Saturday the 7th or Sunday the 8th.
Is that extra week(ish) enough to get DMac back to even 75%?
If he’s back, we can go places. If not…well, it’ll be damn nice to at least get into the playoffs!
The one thing that makes me optimistic about the team’s chances in the playoffs is that they’ll be essentially be playing with house money. That kind of team can be dangerous.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:16 am
Forrest Hump Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:13 am
The roster is barren of playmakers on O and D.
*************
On defense yes. On offense, when healthy????? Child please. We are stocked with playmakers on offense. Our defense is our weakness by far. Shore that up and we’d be at 10 wins already. Buffalo, Denver, and Detroit would all be wins and we’d have clinched a playoff spot by now.
—
Stand corrected. Tho, when Dmac is out, we haven’t anyone else (Taiwan 2012 yes). DHB isn’t a playmaker yet. Moore is. But still struggling with rookie injuries and hitting the wall. Reece for sure, but go back to coach not utilizing the playmakers more (include pryor packages). Boss under-utilized.
But yeah, D is woeful.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:16 am
Amen brother, Al shouldve never even considered giving this turd another go-round… He’s not good enough to wash the team’s jock straps, let alone be the DC…
++++++++++++++
Yup. Even as a backup plan, it was a bad idea.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:22 am
That Soup is a good guy and still has the receivers supporting him.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/21/SPUQ1MF934.DTL
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:24 am
Ive been reading about Bush’s injured shoulder… Any chance that Jones gets more touches than Mike??
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:24 am
We WILL have a top 5 offense next year, its really all about the D. Agree with the guy that said even if we win the SB, Bres has got to go. Bring in a top flight DC, instill a little discipline, and this team is a SB contender. DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS!!!
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:27 am
402 I agree that Bres has got to go but..”even if we win the SB” “this team is a SB contender” ?????
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:27 am
SilverNBlackPA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:07 am
Expect changes imo if we get a legit GM.
+++++++++
Tons of changes.
Here’s what I think happens:
Hue persuades the new GM to let him mold the team how he wants and he gets his shot for next year. But next year will be “playoffs or bust.”
Hell, even Eric Mangini got an audition year when Mike Holmgren took over the Browns GM job and everybody hated him.
—
and how did that go? ie, the writing was on the wall, lame duck hc, it was inevitable Holmgren was going to can him and mold it in HIS vision instead.
there’ve been other similar situations around the league. Raheem Morris is one right now too.
Im not against Hue staying, but not where the GM we hire is hired kinda under Hue, or to go along with Hue. Like say Millen brought in, to toe the company line, give Hue some support, wont buck the roster or admin, has Raider-football principles etc.
I’d rather the GM be someone strong-willed like the Ravens GM in waiting, or McKenzie, etc, someone with their own winning ways learned, who has THEIR vision and the HC works under him. Where that GM has the power to assess Hue and decide to give him another chance or not, up to him.
Anyway, i think for sure the roster will get blown up in large parts, and obviously DC there’ll be a change, no question.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:30 am
Whether you like him as the Raiders QB or not, Soup is a class act all the way… Tough break this season for a good dude… Too bad there isnt a way to retain him.
Giving up 2 high draft choices for a QB pretty much closes the door on open competition..
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:32 am
Raider-in-PA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:30 am
Whether you like him as the Raiders QB or not, Soup is a class act all the way… Tough break this season for a good dude… Too bad there isnt a way to retain him.
Giving up 2 high draft choices for a QB pretty much closes the door on open competition..
++++++++++++++
Yup.
It’s Palmer as the unquestioned starter next season with Pryor battling a veteran journeyman or two in training camp for the backup job.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:32 am
Bcz24 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 8:15 am
I didn’t hear of players questioning the scheme, which ones did? I believe they are correct, but Hue is doing the right thing also because players CAN’t be allowed to call out coaches publicly. The inmates don’t run the asylum.
——
^^ This^^
One of the single most important aspects of the change in the way the Raiders are perceived after the death of Al Davis.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:35 am
SilverNBlackPA: Not sure if I asked you this before but what part of PA are you in??
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:35 am
We do have other problems than just the D coordinator.
A MLB that is slow to react and just plain slow
Overpaid players that are not living up to their contracts.
A coach so full of himself he lets ESPN show him getting his nails done.
No RT to speak of
Poor conditioning.
The list goes on…
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:41 am
HUE needs to focus on being more aggressive. I couldnt believe how passive the Raider offense was this past game. The scheme he used this game works if McFadden is in the game where every hand off has the potential to break free but with Bush in the game, the passing attack has to be more aggressive to compensate for the lack of a big play threat on the ground.
The other problem I have with Hue is his GOATEE?! How does he have time/energy to focus on his personal grooming change? Put your energy and focus into the game and team and STOP WORRYING ABOUT LOOKING GOOD!
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:43 am
Al did make a push for Dennis Thurman and Darrin Perry we got stymied on both so Chucky B was put in there by default.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:44 am
Not sure where Soup will land, but it won’t be to his liking I’m sure. He is just barely good enough to be a starter, but not good enough to get a big contract and or tons of organizational support.
How many teams out there, don’t have either a franchise QB, someone they invested a lot in (like Eagles, Texans, Bears) or a 1st round pick from the last draft or two? Not to mention the teams drafting QB’s this year in the first round.
Basically that narrows the list to like Seattle, KC, Washington and the Bills, lol.
His best bet will be to land on a team that loses in the playoffs this year, with an average QB, and hope to get a fair chance to start. Maybe Ravens, 49ers or Jets.
Either way, Soup will be disappointed in his FA interest.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:44 am
For all those who still like Hue enough or a lot to want him to return. If the Raiders lose against the Chiefs, either blow out or a game littered with a lot of questionable playcalls, lack of utilizing Reece/Boss, etc. What chance do you think you will go from “im okay with Hue, give him another year, what other rookie HC had to deal with all that happened this year”…to…”yeah im ok now with blowing it up”.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:45 am
Chuck B was unforgivably passive when we had the Lions in their own territory on the final drive. That 3rd down soft soft defensive playcall was unbearable to watch. After 2 plays of aggressive D stopping them in their tracks, they hiked it on 3rd down and I saw NO PRESSURE coming in, I knew Chuck B’s second stint as coordinator was going to be the reason we lose this game. Grow a sack Chuck B and stop being such a wussy when playing with the lead.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:45 am
SACK UP chucky B and Hue and go balls out the next two games on Offense AND Defense!
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:46 am
When I see successful coaches like Reid, McCarthy or Belichick they look like slobs that have been in the film room all night and haven’t had time to shave or shower.
Oakland is a blue collar roll up your sleeves and get dirty kind of coaching job like Madden was.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:47 am
Arj, Hue didn’t have a goatee last game. And who gives a crap if he did besides you? The fact that you even brought up personal grooming shows how much of an idiot you are. So coaches are just supposed to not take care of themselves during the season? That was a really stupid comment, we have bigger fish to fry then the hair on our coaches face.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:51 am
Raider-in-PA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:35 am
SilverNBlackPA: Not sure if I asked you this before but what part of PA are you in??
++++++++++++++++++++
Heh, if you did, I don’t remember. I’m in Pittsburgh.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:53 am
Not sure where Soup will land, but it won’t be to his liking I’m sure
narrows the list to like Seattle, KC, Washington and the Bills
***
JFB,
he’s not gonna land in KC with Orton and/or Cassel there. he’s not gonna land in Washington where they ditched him for next to nothing. he’s not gonna land in Buffalo unless he wants to back up Fitzpatrick.
Seattle & Cleveland are the only options if he wants to start imo. Maybe Titans if Hasslebeck retires. Maybe Indy if they ditch Manning and draft Luck, but don’t want to start him right away
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:53 am
John Madden…. Aginst the lions the Raiders just sat back and let them make plays in the 4th qtr … The Defense played ” too Soft”….
Yesterday while speaking to Rich Gannon on Sirius Nfl Radio…
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:54 am
comes down to us playing in KC with KC playing like we thought they would coming into the season then SD playing the way we thought they would coming into the season. We win this game we’re alive, get excited nation
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:54 am
GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:44 am
For all those who still like Hue enough or a lot to want him to return. If the Raiders lose against the Chiefs, either blow out or a game littered with a lot of questionable playcalls, lack of utilizing Reece/Boss, etc. What chance do you think you will go from “im okay with Hue, give him another year, what other rookie HC had to deal with all that happened this year”…to…”yeah im ok now with blowing it up”.
—–
The important thing is that the owner hire a GM that has complete autonomy. If that GM sees potential for working with Hue and tweaking the current roster and staff so be it. If not blow it up and build a perennial contender.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:55 am
I personally like HCs who are consummate X&O guys, who dont talk much pre/post-game, but walk the walk, and who prowl the sidelines like thinkers, not rah-rah types and sound-byters. Not saying rah-rah types cant be great, but i just prefer the other profile.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:55 am
This is the second biggest week of the season for me, I live in KS and after that last debaucle I’m hoping we come out with our highest offensive output of the season.
CRUSH THEM CHIEFS!
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:55 am
Raiderjhawk
I understand where you are coming from but priorities help you stay focused during the season.
There will time for ESPN articles, looking good to chase women in February.
This time of year Hue should look haggard from working 18 hours day is all the poster was saying to you.
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:56 am
37-14 RAIDERS!
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:57 am
#422 complete agreement
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:59 am
Attn: Qodrn
Dirty Pirates 38
Hillbilly Rednecks 31
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:59 am
“Seattle & Cleveland are the only options if he wants to start imo.”
I thought that same thing then I looked at Seattle and the winning streak they are on now with Tavaris Jackson playing well and I might want to rethink that.
He may end up having to be a backup next year because the teams that need QB’s may draft them with hopes of seeing them produce right away like Andy Dalton and Kam Newton have done.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 am
Raiders 33…. Chefs 27…
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 am
I don’t understand the blow it up thing. I can’t even imagine how scary this team is going to be next year. Palmer is the best QB we’ve had since Gannon, Moore will be in his second year, Ford and DHB should be that much better with a healthy McFadden in the backfield. Teams won’t be able to cheat us with Palmer and DMC on the field at the same time.
The pieces are in place we just need to get healthy, I am willing to guarantee that we will be one of the best teams in the league next year offensivily. Our D needs to get fixed and I think we’ll see a lot of changes next season.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:00 am
Correction : Raiders 33… Chefs 17…
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:03 am
Raiders 13
Chiefs 10
Low scoring game in cold weather our D will show up because I prayed to Santa Claus, Brown Jesus and the Easter Bunny!
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 am
The blow it up thing means essentially a GM with full football department autonomy. Bringing his own learned winning ways from another organization, or groomed by a successful organization, or has a history of successful GMing.
Comes in and evaluates everything as he sees fit, and makes the changes, however much. Establishes himself as the authority, the leader, and there’s a true chain of command flowing down. All disciplined and accountable. And importantly, the GM DISPLAYING that commitment to accountability and consistency to all below.
Such that everyone and anyone on the rosters football staff is subject to firing. No scholarships, no excuses, no compromises in keeping highly-paid players or main coaches that can end up creating divisiveness in the lockerroom and coaching staff.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 am
I thought that same thing then I looked at Seattle and the winning streak they are on now with Tavaris Jackson playing well and I might want to rethink that
***
T-Jax, JCamp & Garrard will compete for that job
McNabb is done imo. To much pride to accept peanuts & battle for a starting job
Benched for Vick, Grossman & Ponder the past 3 seasons … he could be benched for Jackson or McCoy just as easily
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:11 am
Silver,
Brown Jesus = Prez BO?
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:17 am
Because…
this 53 man roster has a ton of holes in it, there are a number of underperforming vets, and a number of a untalented players.
the coaching staff likewise. there are a number of them who aren’t performing up to scratch, a number who are out of their depth, a number who are passed it, a number who are ready to take the next step up, and a number who is too spotlight-driven and, as Huntdogg said, making flashy calls and sound-bytes instead of coaching to win.
there’s also thanks to Hue/Al a dearth of draft picks. So the autonomous GM will have to blow up slabs of the coaches/players in order to get more talent, more smarts, more talent, to lift this team from .500 to .750+
Will take a slow first 2012 year due to the lack of picks, a number of new FA acquisitions, and then build on that, build great depth thru the following draft with a full slate of picks and more acquired picks.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:18 am
388.GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:06 am
Compare to Harbaugh. Immediately comes in, and on lockout season, and creates a top 5 D, gets the team playing at a consistently high standard, a standard that plays very competitively against the top teams.
This is the same roster/system for two years now, no progress. The roster is barren of playmakers on O and D. The play-calling on O and D is insipid for great slabs of time every game, and for many games in a year. There’s no discipline, lacking smarts. There’s questionable personnel moves made that have the players publicly and privately questioning it — hagan, boss, tj, dhb, etc. That means lockerroom problems. You have flip-flopping from the HC and BS-speak from the HC. HC also too enamored with the spotlight on himself.
Expect changes imo if we get a legit GM.
*************************************
I wish everyone would stop comparing us to the freakin 49ers and Harbaughs situation. He inherited a top 10 defense and made 1 change to it changing out nate clemmonts for Carlos Rogers. IF Hue jackson had the 49ers defense we would be AT LEAST 10-4 right now, maybe even better than that. Imagine how Harbaugh would be doing right now if he had our defense, lost Gore, Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, and Craptree for half the season. They wouldn’t be sitting with 11 wins I can promise you that.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:19 am
I’m glad some of you guys aren’t in charge of the team…
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:21 am
GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 am
The blow it up thing means essentially a GM with full football department autonomy. Bringing his own learned winning ways from another organization, or groomed by a successful organization, or has a history of successful GMing.
Comes in and evaluates everything as he sees fit, and makes the changes, however much. Establishes himself as the authority, the leader, and there’s a true chain of command flowing down. All disciplined and accountable. And importantly, the GM DISPLAYING that commitment to accountability and consistency to all below.
Such that everyone and anyone on the rosters football staff is subject to firing. No scholarships, no excuses, no compromises in keeping highly-paid players or main coaches that can end up creating divisiveness in the lockerroom and coaching staff.
——————————————–
Yep. Hey, Mark Davis, are you listening?
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:21 am
making flashy calls and sound-bytes instead of coaching to win.
***********************
No that isn’t true at all. YOU want Hue to coach NOT to lose. Hue IS coaching to win, but it isn’t getting executed. Like its been said before, Hue is calling plays for the team we ’should’ have, not the team we ‘do’ have. He is still coaching to win. I agree that he should tone down the play calls, due to the injuries, and maybe this situation warrants the safer ‘coach to not lose’ calls, but to say Hue isn’t coaching to win is just ridiculous. You think the guy WANTS to lose? Come on man.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:22 am
I wish everyone would stop comparing us to the freakin 49ers and Harbaughs situation. He inherited a top 10 defense and made 1 change to it changing out nate clemmonts for Carlos Rogers. IF Hue jackson had the 49ers defense we would be AT LEAST 10-4 right now, maybe even better than that. Imagine how Harbaugh would be doing right now if he had our defense, lost Gore, Alex Smith, Vernon Davis, and Craptree for half the season. They wouldn’t be sitting with 11 wins I can promise you that.
***
BCZ,
please read the above article by Steve Corkran.
The “NO SYMPATHY FROM CHIEFS” paragraph is a must-read for ya
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:23 am
After Indy drafts Luck, Browns draft RGIII, Jags draft Barkley and the skins draft Landry Jones teams that might target a qb:
Seahawks: Do they believe in Tararis?
Dolphins: Do they believe in Moore?
Matt Flynn Kyle Orton and possibly Peyton Manning will be on the market as well, will JC land a starting spot?
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:23 am
Benched for Vick, Grossman & Ponder the past 3 seasons … he could be benched for Jackson or McCoy just as easily
******************
He was never benched for Vick? He was traded to Washington because the Iggles had decided to move on to Kolb. Kolb was benched for Vick after Vick played lights out when Kolb was injured.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:24 am
Reggie McKenzie…!! GM…
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:25 am
“Silver,
Brown Jesus = Prez BO?”
No not that guy its just that I would guess that Jesus would look more like Bin laden than the pictures I see of him in America. (white Jesus)
Wasn’t he from the Middle East?
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:25 am
to say Hue isn’t coaching to win is just ridiculous. You think the guy WANTS to lose? Come on man
***
co-signed. well said BCZ
Hue’s collapse is NOT due to lack of effort from him or the other coaches. I don’t get the sense that he doesn’t care or that he’s given up
there are plenty of negative things to say about Hue, but this isn’t one of them.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:26 am
Our 53 man roster is KILLING this team…
If we don’t have Boyd out there picking up PF’s in the return game, and then getting beat DEEP as the Deep safety we might have pulled this game out…
Dude was in the middle of the 3 catastopic plays down the stretch of the Det game…
He was also the ‘missing man’ onthe last play against the Texan’s, which got him dismissed the first time.
Kid does NOT play with his head and cost us dearly last Sunday, we CANNOT go forward with guys like him ont he roster…sorry Jerome.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:27 am
He was never benched for Vick? He was traded to Washington because the Iggles had decided to move on to Kolb.
***
good catch – thank you for the correction
benched for Kolb = even worse?
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:27 am
Let’s look at various positional depth charts, starting with Defense…
By all means, everyone chip in with your agreements/disagreements, who else really is expendable/upgradeable etc.
Safeties:
Giordano, Boyd must go. Mitchell is iffy, not irreplaceable. But willing to give more time, perhaps takes bigger leaps with better coaching. Huff, he’s okay, but also can be upgraded. Branch a keeper.
Cornerbacks:
Johnson, Sheppard, to go. Van Dyke, Chekwa, Routt keepers.
Linebackers: McClain can go, or with a 3-4 scheme shift, could be put in a situation that makes him less of a liability, until he can be upgraded in a following draft. Curry keeper. Goethal no scholarship, has to be healthy and fight for a roster spot or out. Groves/Wimbley probably better utilized 3-4 OLB, but both should be kept. Scott/Shaughnessy (3-4 possible conversion, but definitely Scott has to fight for a spot)
NT (either 3-4 or 4-3):
Need one, a monster space eater, and a back-up for him to push.
DE:
We’re all fine here. Bryant, Houston, Shaughnessy keepers. Moss, Seymour are replaceable. Kelly, despite people not liking him, he’s more effective than people give him credit for. Henderson gone.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:28 am
Silver,
who knows?
all I can say is … at least you aren’t praying to Buddha, Tom Cruise or Tim Tebow!
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:29 am
BCZ,
please read the above article by Steve Corkran.
The “NO SYMPATHY FROM CHIEFS” paragraph is a must-read for ya
*****************
Exlain to me how that has ANYTHING to do with comparing us to the Niners?
The Chiefs have had a similar injury sheet to us this year and how are THEY doing? Last I checked they had a worse record than us and have been BLOWN OUT twice as many times as we have, and they also STILL have a better defense than we do. Oh, and Haley wasn’t a rookie HC and Pioli didn’t die midseason.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 am
Last Sunday, Hue did EXACTLY what he’d said he’d do after he nearly cost us the Browns game, by going for it on 4th down…he went for the ‘Big Play’ TWICE in the Det game and it cost us both times.
If i’m supposed to give him a break because he’s a ‘rookie’ he should show ALL of US that he’s growing into a reasonable Head Coach…those decisions are not reasonable, just like it wasn’t reasonable to go for it against Houston, Cleveland, KC on 4th and 1 near the goalline…SAME MISTAKE OVER and OVER!
It’s getting hard to keep cutting him slack when these kinds of decisions keep piling up as do our losses…
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:33 am
“the freakin 49ers and Harbaughs situation. He inherited a top 10 defense and made 1 change to it changing out nate clemmonts for Carlos Rogers.”
WRONG!
Manny Lawson, Nate Clemons, Aubrayo Franklin, Takeo Spikes, Were all starters last year and are now gone to other teams. There have been other changes as well and I could digress but I am sick of talking about the niners.
Point is that coaching has a lot to do with success and Harbaugh is doing a great job there.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:34 am
Over the years, the Raiders organizational mess has caused for a lot of on-the-job-training for our coaching staff(s).
Let’s hope Hue figures out after his 5th failed try, to just go for the first down and/or run clock at the end of games, rather than huck it 50 yards down the field for the Sportscenter highlight.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:34 am
What kind of words would Al have had for Hue after the Detroit game? or the two weeks preceeding the Lions debacle???
Hue would be hanging on by a thread…
and hopefully would have wuit the ‘video game’ calls on 4th down and late in the game for SOUND football decisions.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:35 am
VanHeathen is right, this is what is meant by ‘Not coaching to win’. He continues to put too much on the line in situations that are too low-risk. Then in other situations, where we need more aggressive O or D play-calling, he goes soft and predictable, doesn’t utilize weapons, etc.
To cut this post short i wont post a litany of examples from games.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:35 am
The Day Campbell went down the Whole offensive game plan changed… Then MCFadden went down and the Raiders most potent weapon was gone , in comes Palmer…. Again… New offense… Ford , Moore and Tiawan are lost….
Just those things could have tanked this team…7 & 7 ?
We could be lucky to be 7 & 7…. Especially with our terrible defense..
Get a new DC… Hire a GM… And give Hue Jackson a real chance next yr .. With a training camp ..
…
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:35 am
BCZ,
are you the guy claiming Hue made chicken salad outta chicken schiz or was that somebody else?
in any event, you’re quick to point out SF’s excellent defense, but do not mention their putrid offense. They didn’t make many wholesale changes to the defense, but thats also a complement to Harbaugh. How many games had they won previously with the same D? and how much has that offense changed? is Braylon Edwards making all the difference? As far as I know Smith, Gore, Crabby & Davis still make the O over there.
Crennel inherited a MUCH worse situation than H-Jax and he ain’t complaining or making excuses. Matter of fact, neither is Hue! why are you ???
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:39 am
We could look at it how the Jaguars look at how they fared with Gabbert.
They see Andy Dalton and Kam Newton having success in their first year and they think maybe we picked the wrong guy.
We look across the bay and we see another rookie head coach having success and we think maybe we got the wrong guy.
I think Hue has too much on his plate once he gets a GM in here and a real DC (like Del Rio) then he can focus on what makes Hue good. The offense.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:40 am
So of post #450, if really pushed and asked to be cutthroat about it…
Sure-thing keepers from all of Defense:
Routt, Branch, Wimbley, Kelly, Bryant, Shaughnessy, Houston, Van Dyke, Chekwa, Groves, Curry.
That’s 11 from the known active 45/53. Don’t know enough about the practice squad to fully assess.
That’s not a lot of talent on D currently, many holes to fill, and a lot of talent needed for depth, starting roles, and push other starters.
You could keep some more obviously, but really that’s the core must-haves.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:40 am
Safeties:
Giordano, Boyd must go. Mitchell is iffy, not irreplaceable. But willing to give more time, perhaps takes bigger leaps with better coaching. Huff, he’s okay, but also can be upgraded. Branch a keeper.
Cornerbacks:
Johnson, Sheppard, to go. Van Dyke, Chekwa, Routt keepers.
Linebackers: McClain can go, or with a 3-4 scheme shift, could be put in a situation that makes him less of a liability, until he can be upgraded in a following draft. Curry keeper. Goethal no scholarship, has to be healthy and fight for a roster spot or out. Groves/Wimbley probably better utilized 3-4 OLB, but both should be kept. Scott/Shaughnessy (3-4 possible conversion, but definitely Scott has to fight for a spot)
NT (either 3-4 or 4-3):
Need one, a monster space eater, and a back-up for him to push.
DE:
We’re all fine here. Bryant, Houston, Shaughnessy keepers. Moss, Seymour are replaceable. Kelly, despite people not liking him, he’s more effective than people give him credit for. Henderson gone.
************************
Safety – Branch is a fringe Pro Bowler, MUST be resigned this offseason. Huff is a fringe Pro Bowler when healthy, which he hasn’t been all season. Giordano is actually pretty good as a depth/role player type and will be cheap to retain. Boyd is garbage and was released, and only resigned because Chinedum got hurt. Mitchell is more of hybrid type, decent special teamer, can cover TE’s but is often burned by mediocre WRs. Could benefit from coaching, but must not be relied upon to get better. Another quality depth guy should be looked at.
CBs- Johnson was never healthy this season, is adequate depth/fringe starter for another year or 2 depending on health. Sheppard is an adequate starter, who was NEVER a zone player and is struggling (much like our whole defense) with some of Bres playcalling should be retained. Routt has work to do, but is still a top 5-7 CB in the league right now. Checkwa and DVD will benefit from a full offseason program to get their bodies physically to an NFL level, great upside from both. Not against getting rid of CJ or Lito IF a better player can be acquired.
LBs- McClain has a LOT of work to do to prove he can play 4-3 MLB, but i’m not ready to write him off just yet. With the right coaching he could improve drastically. Need another year. Wimbley is better than he gets credit for, shouldnt be playing in coverage the way Bres has had him. Curry is also pretty good, with a ton of upside from better LB coaching. Groves can be kept for depth or walk, not married to him. EVERY other LB on the roster should be replaced with ACTUAL NFL CALIBUR PLAYERS!!!
DL is a position of strength… when they show up. Dont need big changes here, but agree a NT is badly needed.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:42 am
After 9 yrs as and HC,
i DOUBT that del Rio would come in here and work for Hue, when if he waits out a year, Hue could play himself right out of town…
Then Del Rio could be in the running for the HC job.
If Hue doesn’t change his ways, he won’t be long for the HC seat…Al’s departing did not make him emporer for more than this 16 game schedule, period.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:44 am
YoungAmerican Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 7:02 pm
Steelers = LeBeau, Harrison, Woodley, Polmalu, Smith
Texans = Wade Phillips, Ryans, Cushing, Barwin, Reed, Joseph
Ravens = Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Jarrett Johnson, Haloti Ngata, Ed Reed… also use 4-3 alignments plenty with Suggs and Johnson at DE and Ngata at DT
Dolphins = Mike Nolan, Cameron Wake, Paul Soliai, Koa Misi, two VERY good corners in Smith and Davis
49ers = Willis, Bowman, Justin Smith, Aldon Smith, use the 4-3 quite a bit with Justin Smith at DT and Aldon Smith at DE
=================================================
Just one last comment on odd fronts versus even, and players versus scheme. For the odd defense to work once again, it’s the LB’s that make the system go. Not unlike an even front. Name the players on our roster that equate to a James Harrison, Brian Cushing, Terrell Suggs, Cameron Wake, and Patrick Willis?
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:46 am
Name the players on our roster that equate to a James Harrison, Brian Cushing, Terrell Suggs, Cameron Wake, and Patrick Willis?
————–
There are none. Which is why, 3-4, 4-3, multiple fronts, whatever the new DC wants to run? He’s going to have to bring in at least one FA who is a clear-cut difference maker.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:46 am
Crennel inherited a MUCH worse situation than H-Jax and he ain’t complaining or making excuses. Matter of fact, neither is Hue! why are you ???
******************************
You don’t get it. You never will. Saying you called into work cuz your tummy hurt is an excuse. Saying you called in to work because your appendix ruptured and you almost died is not an excuse its a REASON. You just WONT see the difference because you WANT HUE TO FAIL.
Losing one or two playmakers is an excuse. Losing the amount of QUALITY players that we have lost this season is a REASON!!!!
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:47 am
hire McKenzie as GM & Rob Ryan as HC
let these guys pick the best available OC & DC
we’re 12-4 AFC West champs with less than 10 roster moves
PRINT THAT!
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:50 am
Yeah, I’ll pass on Rob Ryan as HC.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:51 am
“After 9 yrs as and HC,
i DOUBT that del Rio would come in here and work for Hue, when if he waits out a year”
I mentioned Del Rio because he is a Bay Area native and will be looking for work next year, no other reason.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:52 am
Offense positional depth charts…
Quarterback:
Campbell gone, Boller must go, keep Palmer and Pryor.
Half-Backs:
Bush tradeable, Cartwright expendable, Taiwan and McFadden keepers.
Full-Backs:
Tonga and Reece keepers.
Wide-Receivers:
Moore, Ford, DHB, Murphy keepers.
Tight-Ends:
Boss, Gordon, Ausberry, Myers, all keepers.
Offensive Line:
Barksdale, Veldheer, Wizniewski keepers. Campbell to be assessed playing multiple real snaps. Heyer to compete for roster spot. Carlisle, Barnes, Satele can go.
There are plenty of practice squad players in various positions above don’t know enough about or can’t be assessed without seeing them actually play.
There’s a lot more talent there than on defense. But definitely still a large number of spots open for depth and pushing starters. Especially OL can always keep improving, never tire of upgrading that.
The trenches above all else.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:52 am
I mentioned Del Rio because he is a Bay Area native and will be looking for work next year, no other reason.
____________
i don’t think anyone will hire him as a HC on the pro level
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:54 am
Doesn’t matter who we bring in to play,
if the HC keeps making POOR decisions with the players he has on the field, we’ll continue to lose…
Hue is making Decisions that will have him on someone else’s coaching staff sooner than later the way this is going…
I’m SICK of the ‘riverboat gambler’ mindset.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:55 am
very nice post #462
bcz24 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:40 am
thanks for chipping in with your analysis of the roster. we agree in many areas. push comes to shove, cutthroat about it, you can see there’s plenty that can be upgraded and that we’d be happy to let go of to get a better player there if we could finagle it.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:57 am
I’m SICK of the ‘riverboat gambler’ mindset.
***********************
If the players executed (especially Sunday when the plays were there) you wouldn’t be so sick of it. You would LOVE it. Players gotta make the plays.
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:57 am
there will be very few roster changes we don’t have monopoly money
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:00 am
Much easier to replace McClain if it came down to it than to replace all the players we’d have to replace to switch to a 3-4
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:00 am
# Silverandblack666 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:33 am
“the freakin 49ers and Harbaughs situation. He inherited a top 10 defense and made 1 change to it changing out nate clemmonts for Carlos Rogers.”
WRONG!
Manny Lawson, Nate Clemons, Aubrayo Franklin, Takeo Spikes, Were all starters last year and are now gone to other teams. There have been other changes as well and I could digress but I am sick of talking about the niners.
Point is that coaching has a lot to do with success and Harbaugh is doing a great job there.
================================================
Harbaugh did a TREMENDOUS job over there. What Harbaugh did was convince Alex Smith to resign because he had nothing better. Then, he did an absolute miracle job of protecting Smith early in the season from the Whiner fans who were ready to run him into the swamps off Candlestick Point. Smith has played well, their team is winning, and the fans are off Smiths neck. Good for them.
Over here, we had a team that won 3 of their last five, was playing well down the stretch, had turned the culture of losing around, and who had some playmakers on both sides of the ball. And if it wasn’t for Rich Seymour making a game saving tackle on Sanchez versus the Jets, and Huff making a miracle pick on Schaub, we would be staring at five wins right now.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:01 am
Saying you called into work cuz your tummy hurt is an excuse. Saying you called in to work because your appendix ruptured and you almost died is not an excuse its a REASON. You just WONT see the difference because you WANT HUE TO FAIL
***
Hue failing means the Raiders are losing games.
As a Raider fan, I’m offended by that. The only blogger here that wants the Raiders to lose is MR/Sullivan and he isn’t a Raider fan
the reason I want Hue out is because the Raider aren’t winning games they should win !!!
hello ??? make sense ???
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:02 am
466.bcz24 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:46 am
Crennel inherited a MUCH worse situation than H-Jax and he ain’t complaining or making excuses. Matter of fact, neither is Hue! why are you ???
******************************
You don’t get it. You never will. Saying you called into work cuz your tummy hurt is an excuse. Saying you called in to work because your appendix ruptured and you almost died is not an excuse its a REASON. You just WONT see the difference because you WANT HUE TO FAIL.
Losing one or two playmakers is an excuse. Losing the amount of QUALITY players that we have lost this season is a REASON!!!!
********************************************************
I’m not a big Hue Jackson fan. Said as much before the season even started.
Despite that, I have to go with bcz24 on this one. Romeo Crennell’s “inheritance” is no better or worse than Hue’s, but to say that he’s not making excuses while inferring that Hue IS, is simply incorrect. Fans make excuses all the time, and I would imagine that there are plenty of fans in KC playing the “what-if” game right now. We’ve heard plenty of coach-speak and plenty of outright BS from Hue Jackson, but unless I’ve missed something he’s not making excuses.
His team is also currently ahead of Romeo Crennell’s team in the AFC West.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:02 am
453.VanHeathen Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:30 am
Last Sunday, Hue did EXACTLY what he’d said he’d do after he nearly cost us the Browns game, by going for it on 4th down…he went for the ‘Big Play’ TWICE in the Det game and it cost us both times.
If i’m supposed to give him a break because he’s a ‘rookie’ he should show ALL of US that he’s growing into a reasonable Head Coach…those decisions are not reasonable, just like it wasn’t reasonable to go for it against Houston, Cleveland, KC on 4th and 1 near the goalline…SAME MISTAKE OVER and OVER!
It’s getting hard to keep cutting him slack when these kinds of decisions keep piling up as do our losses…
^^^^^^^
Want to the know the reason Huey goes for it in those situations?
He realizes he needs TD’s, cause his DEFENSE SUCKS to win win and close out football games!!
If Huey would have had just an AVERAGE defense this year, the Raiders would havd wrapped up the division after beating the Dolphins with a better D Coordinator and a better scheme!
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:03 am
uglyorc Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:00 am
Much easier to replace McClain if it came down to it than to replace all the players we’d have to replace to switch to a 3-4
—
dont know about that.
NT is all we need really.
3-4 suitable DEs: Bryant, Kelly, Houston, Seymour
3-4 suitable OLBs: Groves, Wimbley, Scott, Shaughnessy, Moss
3-4 suitable ILBs: McClain, Curry
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:03 am
I get a kick out supposed Raider fans who want to change coaches every year!
Doing that gets this franchise nowhere…quick!
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:04 am
Did anyone else know there was a Jeff Hostetler award?
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:05 am
CP Pryor will be back
DMAC TJ will be back
Reece Tonga will be back
Boss Myers Ausberry will be back
DHB Ford Moore will be back
Wiz Veldheer Barks will be back
Seymour TK Houston Shaughnessey Houston Bryant will be back
Wimbley Mcclain Curry Goethel will be back
DVD Chekwa Routt will be back
Huff Branch will be back
Lechler Jano Condo Cartwright will be back
try to resign Bush, try to get a run clogger, and fill out roster with marginal players. With right DC Wimbley, Shaughnessey, Routt, and Branch will be household names
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:07 am
The job Harbaugh has done is nothing special!
The pieces were all there for him to succeed and the only way to go for the Whiners was up.
The big questions mark was Smith and all he did was streamline the playbook for Smith, run the ball and let his DOMINATE DEFENSE WIN GAMES!
Plus, the Whiners play in the crappiest division in football!
Nothing special!
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:07 am
# RaiderRockstar Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:47 am
hire McKenzie as GM & Rob Ryan as HC
let these guys pick the best available OC & DC
we’re 12-4 AFC West champs with less than 10 roster moves
PRINT THAT!
====================================
# YoungAmerican Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:50 am
Yeah, I’ll pass on Rob Ryan as HC.
===========================================
Rockstar has a point here. And Last year the Cowgirls had the worst defense in points allowed in the league. This year, they lead their division and their defense has played better and hard for Ryan. The players played hard here for Ryan. We could probably make a worse choice than Ryan.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:08 am
I just realized I misread Rockstar’s post. My bad.
That said, I’d be very surprised if Hue doesn’t get a mulligan from the front office for this season, unless as Cork points out we completely tank the next two games.
It’ll be interesting to see if Crennell stays on as the HC in KC. They could do worse.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:09 am
Its really not that difficult of a situation to assess.
Hue is a good coordinator. Bonehead coach.
He has the opportunity to learn from the MANY boneheaded mistakes hes made during his rookie coaching season. Hopefully he will, but it remains to be seen. But there is no question, he has PLENTY of situations to learn from that can make him a BETTER coach in the future.
Bresnehan should not be employed by any NFL team, period.
Al Saunders is an offensive genius, and another year for the key offensive players to get the system down can only help.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:10 am
Moss was terrible in a 3-4, and Shaughnessy doesn’t have the build. Kelly is a 3-tech pass rusher, not adept at occupying gaps. Seymour is aging.
The Raiders are missing the two most important aspects of a 3-4. NT, and a game-changer at OLB.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:10 am
McClain would be an effective Ted linebacker btw. There are multiple variations of a 3-4 defense, and in one particular one, it has a Ted LB, who is usually the Strong ILB. He is kind of a hybrid of an ILB and a DT, he lines up closer to the NT and plays gap stuffing role and blitzes often. Has to be a bigger 250lbs+ type of specimen.
McClain when he presses the A-gap, is pretty good shedding blocks and getting to the QB.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:10 am
Hue failing means the Raiders are losing games.
As a Raider fan, I’m offended by that. The only blogger here that wants the Raiders to lose is MR/Sullivan and he isn’t a Raider fan
the reason I want Hue out is because the Raider aren’t winning games they should win !!!
hello ??? make sense ???
*************************
No, it doesn’t make sense because you are STILL ignoring the factors that go into winning football games dude.
You think injuries don’t matter. I can’t comprehend that at ALL. If it was JUST 1 or 2 guys I might be inclined to agree with you, but that just isn’t the case.
Truthfully I am sick of arguing about it. You will NEVER convince me that losing the key players we have lost DOESN’T matter. No one in here can convince me that it doesn’t matter that ALL of our key offensive playmakers have missed significant time. I am just not going to speak on this matter anymore.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 am
Rockstar has a point here. And Last year the Cowgirls had the worst defense in points allowed in the league. This year, they lead their division and their defense has played better and hard for Ryan. The players played hard here for Ryan. We could probably make a worse choice than Ryan.
—————–
He’s a decent DC. Not a viable HC option.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:11 am
DKnight007 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:07 am
The job Harbaugh has done is nothing special!
=========================================
Again understand what I am saying here. Alex Smith might have been the most demonized guy in SF since Tommy Lasorda. I am not disagreeing that they had some pieces in place, what I am disagreeing with, is what Harbaugh did was the equivalent of JC going down here, we resign JAMARCUS, and amongst the sh** rain of boos, Jackson turns Russell into a winner and gets the fans on his side. THAT, IS a miracle. You gotta give him that.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:15 am
Game-changer at OLB, say hello to Kamerion Wimbley, a veritable animal pass-rushing. Groves could be reborn, revitalized like Wimbley was under us. Scott could be another possible play-making OLB. Shaughnessy isn’t totally unsuitable purely on build. What’s Lamarr Woodley’s measurables compared to Shaughnessy’s?
Bryant and Seymour would suit the DEs. Kelly can back-up. Moss i can agree with, but he’s depth at OLB if need be. Houston can stuff gaps.
Again, really only NEED a NT. The rest of the positions CAN be filled with very suitable players we currently have, and players who are fairly close to being suitable being back-ups.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:20 am
Wimbley disappeared in Cleveland’s 3-4. Only has one pass rush move. His versatility – the ability to move from SLB to nickle DE – is his best asset. Not a game changer.
Woodley = 6′2, 260
Shaughnessy = 6′5, 270.
Completely different builds. Maybe he can be DeMarcus Ware. Maybe he’s already a pretty good 4-3 DE and his development will be stunted.
Kelly isn’t backing up anyone for $5 million in 2012.
The Raiders don’t have one single game-changer on the roster, and a 3-4 won’t change that.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:20 am
Again, really only NEED a NT.
========================================
Kelly could be an excellent NT in a 3/4. Contrary to popular belief you do not need a 6′4″ 350 guy for nose tackle. Possibly the best NT playing an odd front is in Dallas with 3 time pro bowler Jay Ratliff. Both Phillips and Ryan have said Ratliff is flat out ridiculous. And Ratliff goes about 292.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:20 am
Wimbley playing the Demarcus Ware role is how he should be utilized. It’s a crime having him chasing after TEs as a 4-3 Sam.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 am
Willis is the Ted in the Niners 3-4.
I think McClain could be better suited to that same role.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 am
Wimbley was never a game-changer in Cleveland. He’s a very solid SLB who is versatile enough to move around and play either 4-3 DE spot.
He’d fit in a 3-4, but you can’t expect him to be a standout player when his rookie year was the only season he had over ten sacks. Again, he only has one real pass rush move, and a good OT can use it to push him out of the play. He’s an edge rusher. Not very effective at stunting to the inside.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 am
Kyle Williams is only 6-1 300, and he is a damn good NT. You don’t have to be huge, you just have to be willing to occupy blockers all day.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 am
GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:15 am
Game-changer at OLB, say hello to Kamerion Wimbley, a veritable animal pass-rushing.
==================================
I like Wimbley but Demarcus Ware he ain’t.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:23 am
Offense positional depth charts…
Quarterback:
Campbell gone, Boller must go, keep Palmer and Pryor.
Half-Backs:
Bush tradeable, Cartwright expendable, Taiwan and McFadden keepers.
Full-Backs:
Tonga and Reece keepers.
Wide-Receivers:
Moore, Ford, DHB, Murphy keepers.
Tight-Ends:
Boss, Gordon, Ausberry, Myers, all keepers.
Offensive Line:
Barksdale, Veldheer, Wizniewski keepers. Campbell to be assessed playing multiple real snaps. Heyer to compete for roster spot. Carlisle, Barnes, Satele can go.
There are plenty of practice squad players in various positions above don’t know enough about or can’t be assessed without seeing them actually play.
There’s a lot more talent there than on defense. But definitely still a large number of spots open for depth and pushing starters. Especially OL can always keep improving, never tire of upgrading that.
The trenches above all else.
————————————-
You cant trade a player who isnt under contract. Bush either walks or is resigned, no other possible outcome.
Tonga will be a bubble player again and if he isnt eligible for the practice squad he’ll likely be gone. There are always a dozen + players like him available to sign. No real loss despite what some posters might want you to believe.
Satele is under contract one more year and not all that expensive. He’ll be back unless we make a couple big aquisitions in free agency for interior linemen. I believe that Heyer, Barnes, and Carlisle are all three free agents. It stands to reason one or more will be resigned, especially with so little draft picks.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:24 am
bcz24 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 am
Kyle Williams is only 6-1 300, and he is a damn good NT. You don’t have to be huge, you just have to be willing to occupy blockers all day.
————–
Exactly. It’s a style of play, not just your size. Plenty of big men (ie John Henderson) aren’t cut out for 3-4 NT.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:24 am
Okay so brainstorming with others adding critiques, remember we’re just working on what we have, and even say using 3-4 packages versus the Chiefs why not…
NT: Kelly
DE: Bryant-Seymour (Houston subbing)
OLB: Wimbley-Groves
ILB: McClain-Curry
It might not be a Steelers/Niners star-studded fully perfect 3-4, but don’t tell me you wouldn’t be keen to see it in action say for a whole quarter.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:26 am
Mis-plays of the year
Tyvon Branch letting a sure interception go through his arms in the end zone for a Buffie TD.
JaSoup throwing a horrible interception in the end zone just before halftime against the Pewks.
Allowing Kyle Boller to put on a helmet.
Aaron Curry personal foul as TBone runs out of bounds way short of the needed yardage on 3rd and 20.
Leaving the team hotel in Miami.
Carson Palmer’s panicked interception on the first series against Green Bay.
Carson Palmer overthrowing the wide open in the end zone Denarius Moore.
every loss has a signature moment
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
If the Raiders go 3-4, Kelly is gone.
Truthfully, Kelly should be gone anyway. Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.
Find a team willing to part with a mid-round pick or two for a decent interior pass rusher, and use his $5 million to improve other parts of the team.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:30 am
GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 am
The blow it up thing means essentially a GM with full football department autonomy. Bringing his own learned winning ways from another organization, or groomed by a successful organization, or has a history of successful GMing.
Comes in and evaluates everything as he sees fit, and makes the changes, however much. Establishes himself as the authority, the leader, and there’s a true chain of command flowing down. All disciplined and accountable. And importantly, the GM DISPLAYING that commitment to accountability and consistency to all below.
Such that everyone and anyone on the rosters football staff is subject to firing. No scholarships, no excuses, no compromises in keeping highly-paid players or main coaches that can end up creating divisiveness in the lockerroom and coaching staff.
—————————————–
Sounds good, but isn’t that what the Rams, Jags, Browns and many other miserable franchises have done. Basically what every other franchise besides us and the Cowboys have done for years and years.
No sense in throwing away talent and blowing up a roster and coaching staff of a team that’s been on the rise for the sake of establishing the authority of some new GM.
Assuming we do get a new GM, he should be smart enough to realize we have a ton of young talent and could be on the cusp of something special. And not someone who feels he has to bring in his own guys just because that’s who he’s comfortable with and try to blow up the roster for the sake of making his own mark.
This may make your eyes and ears bleed, but I would have no problem giving Hue full control of the roster and football operations through 2012. Guy swung the deal for Palmer, which I love and let’s face it, we’d be 5-9 at best right now if Boller had started the last 8 games. And Curry was an absolute steal. Bad call, IMO, dropping Hagan for TJH, but it was really minor compared to the positive impact of the other two moves.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:31 am
Allowing Kyle Boller to put on a helmet.
Leaving the team hotel in Miami.
+++++++++++++++++
LMFAO!
Excellent (and sad) list
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:33 am
Truthfully, Kelly should be gone anyway. Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.
+++++++
100% this
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
YoungAmerican Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.
—
That’s Wauffles DL scheme. What he used at the Giants and Raiders before.
It’s a scheme maximizing pass-rushing, but naturally is prone to getting beat on the ground.
Disagree with anyone who disses Kelly’s play (for the most part) in 2011. He’s been very effective in that role he’s playing for Wauffle, much more effective than Seymour. Tho Seymour when his head is on right and plays hard, can be even more tremendous.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
Wonder if Des Bryant can play NT. He’s not a whale like a Wilfork, but he’s definitely a big cat and I recall when Kelly was asked who the strongest dude on the team is he didn’t hesitate to say that it’s Bryant.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
This may make your eyes and ears bleed, but I would have no problem giving Hue full control of the roster and football operations through 2012
**************
Nah, we need a GM. Hue has to focus on coaching, he doesn’t need the added pressure of running everything operationally too. Very few Coach/GMs have ever been successful. Of course Hue’s should have input in the roster, as any other HC in the NFL does.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:36 am
That’s Wauffles DL scheme. What he used at the Giants and Raiders before.
It’s a scheme maximizing pass-rushing, but naturally is prone to getting beat on the ground.
Disagree with anyone who disses Kelly’s play (for the most part) in 2011. He’s been very effective in that role he’s playing for Wauffle, much more effective than Seymour. Tho Seymour when his head is on right and plays hard, can be even more tremendous.
—————-
TK has always been a 3-tech. The only thing that has made him effective is having Richard Seymour next to him.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:37 am
Chris in NY Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:30 am
—
very true. but the key part again is ensuring the GM is not a loser or wannabe. someone groomed in a successful organization (dominick-pats, or current ravens-deputy, or packers-deputy), someone who has experience as a successful GM (none of the Cowhers or Holmgrens etc) who were HCs with GM’ing abilities. But specialized GMs.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:38 am
504. Haven’t been folliwng it as much this year but Oakland has run a 3-4 look in recent memory.
RNS mentioned that a 3-4 is s stupid idea because premium 3-4 DTs are rarer than premium QBs and much more prone to break down.
There are only so many 320-350 lb defenders capable of taking having 2, 300+ lb O linemen crushing into their hips 16+ games per year.
Not to mention great 3-4 D Coaches…
Oakland stays 4-3 at least thru 2012.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:38 am
bcz24 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
This may make your eyes and ears bleed, but I would have no problem giving Hue full control of the roster and football operations through 2012
**************
Nah, we need a GM. Hue has to focus on coaching, he doesn’t need the added pressure of running everything operationally too. Very few Coach/GMs have ever been successful. Of course Hue’s should have input in the roster, as any other HC in the NFL does.
——————————————
I think he would be the GM just in the sense of having final say of the roster and having the scouts report to him. We don’t have many draft picks next year anyway and Hue has to know this roster better than anyone right now.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:39 am
513. mKelly (for the Raiders) has had production before Seymour.
Kelly Gregg was always hurt with the Ravens but always liked his game.
He is playing very well unfortunately
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:40 am
Hue not going for two.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:40 am
516. Completely agree. Need a GM.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:40 am
Kelly had one good season, a big contract, and then a lot of nothing until Richard Seymour showed up.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:41 am
518. RMR Sully44 ect ect TROLL alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 am
YoungAmerican
TK has always been a 3-tech. The only thing that has made him effective is having Richard Seymour next to him.
—-
Well, I can also agree with that too. But that’s in the past. When TK’s play was not up to par. You have to consider he’s learned under Seymour, Seymour has brought a lot of tutelage to these players like Kelly, Bryant etc, since he’s been here. Enough that maybe Kelly has now in his own right developed where if he didn’t have another 3-tech DT next to him, but a 1-tech NT, in a 4-3, he could continue being effective.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:42 am
520. Had one good season, blew his knee out, became the highest paid DL EVER, then had sub par production till Seymour
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:43 am
Chris in NY Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
Wonder if Des Bryant can play NT. He’s not a whale like a Wilfork, but he’s definitely a big cat and I recall when Kelly was asked who the strongest dude on the team is he didn’t hesitate to say that it’s Bryant.
++++++++++++++
Depends on the 3-4 co-ordinator.
Wade Phillips & Rob Ryan run a scheme where the NT isn’t just required to hold his ground and eat up blocks, but to penetrate and collapse the pocket. Jay Ratliff and Shaun Cody each only go about 300 pounds.
Then, of course, there’s the traditional 3-4 NT who’s huge and beefy and occupies space.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am
TK’s leads NFL DT’s with 8 sacks this year and has added several key deflections this year. He’s coming off a game where he had a sack-fumble that we scored a key touchdown on. A game that was also one of our best efforts in run defense in recent times.
Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash? Is it his fault when the linebacker’s get sucked up into the wrong gap in run defense. Or when the ends fail to establish the edge? Or when McClain is too slow to get to the bc on an off-tackle run? Or when the safety takes a bad angle in run support?
I think our D can be fixed simply by having a coordinator who is an expert and who will hold these guys accountable to do their jobs and play tough, consistent football.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
LISTEN BRESNAHAN!
Running Zone D with this personnel is a bad idea, like eating a burrito before sex.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
That 3-4 scheme that Wade Phillips uses is actually called the Phillips 3-4, his father Bum Phillips invented it.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Well, I can also agree with that too. But that’s in the past. When TK’s play was not up to par. You have to consider he’s learned under Seymour, Seymour has brought a lot of tutelage to these players like Kelly, Bryant etc, since he’s been here. Enough that maybe Kelly has now in his own right developed where if he didn’t have another 3-tech DT next to him, but a 1-tech NT, in a 4-3, he could continue being effective.
—————–
That’s exactly it, though. The combination of Richard Seymour and TK has led to a bunch of sacks, but a porous run defense. One of them has to go, and there’s no telling how that will effect the other. Couple that with the fact that both are well on the wrong side of 30, and their combined salaries take up $20 million (a lot to pay for two DTs who have no gap discipline), and they’re not a viable combination if your concern is building for the future.
Time to move Houston or Bryant to 3-tech, and find a guy who can play 2-, 1-, or 0-tech depending on the situation.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Speaking of Wade Phillips, he took a team that was only ever 4-3 and had been terrible the past 2 seasons and make it a 3-4 unit that ranks #2 in points allowed per game and #3 in total yards allowed per game.
That, right there, is fair proof that coaching and scheme account for a whole lot more than people are willing to give credit for.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:46 am
525. Nice.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:46 am
Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash? Is it his fault when the linebacker’s get sucked up into the wrong gap in run defense. Or when the ends fail to establish the edge? Or when McClain is too slow to get to the bc on an off-tackle run? Or when the safety takes a bad angle in run support?
—————
TK LEAVES his gap, exposing the Raiders already-shaky LB corps to offensive linemen who can easily reach the second level.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:47 am
“Carson Palmer overthrowing the wide open in the end zone Denarius Moore.”
Not sure how many times this has been said in here maybe 100,000 times but for the 100,001th time here we go:
Moore was held on that play if you watch the replay you will see it. As he was breaking for the ball a defender grabbed his jersey the ball was where it needed to be but he was held.
Sure Palmer took the blame he is a pro that’s what pros do.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:47 am
TK LEAVES his gap, exposing the Raiders already-shaky LB corps to offensive linemen who can easily reach the second level.
+++++++++++++++
Yep, he’s always freelancing. If he could occupy his gap and get to the QB 8-10 times a year, he’d be worth every penny.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:48 am
# GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
YoungAmerican Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am
Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.
—
That’s Wauffles DL scheme. What he used at the Giants and Raiders before.
It’s a scheme maximizing pass-rushing, but naturally is prone to getting beat on the ground.
Disagree with anyone who disses Kelly’s play (for the most part) in 2011. He’s been very effective in that role he’s playing for Wauffle, much more effective than Seymour. Tho Seymour when his head is on right and plays hard, can be even more tremendous.
==========================================
I have to agree with GG on this one. I don’t think your portrayal of the DT’s is entirely accurate YA. And I don’t think NFL people will agree with you either. Hence why both our DT’s are pro bowl players. What we have here is a hesitant MLB. A play begins and either he chooses the wrong gap, or waits to be blocked. Kirk Morrison was exactly the same way. When you watch Ray Lewis, a play begins and he diagnoses it, and attacks it. With us, a play starts, there is hesitation, our guy is blocked, he does not shed, and the play goes for big yardage. And then it happens over and over again.
Think I am kidding? Watch Cushing tonight. Cushing does EXACTLY what I am saying. McClain waits to get blocked.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:48 am
#525 from Chris in NY…
good to have a compatriot TK appreciator. He HAS been good this year and started coming on last year. Yes, Seymour, but like i said, have to consider the tutelage under Seymour CAN and possibly HAS been like good coaching, where TK develops and takes that step up. TK has been effective, and doesnt deserve to be dissed on his play. He’s playing a role, and he’s playing it well.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:49 am
GoodOle00 Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
LISTEN BRESNAHAN!
Running Zone D with this personnel is a bad idea, like eating a burrito before sex.
______________________________________________
Yeah, man. Gotta have that burrito DURING the act.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:50 am
“TK’s leads NFL DT’s with 8 sacks this year and has added several key deflections this year. He’s coming off a game where he had a sack-fumble that we scored a key touchdown on. A game that was also one of our best efforts in run defense in recent times.
Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash?”
Because that is the only game in the last 3 years where he has had that kind of impact might have something to do with it and he is being paid to perform like pro bowler you might want to consider that as well when judging him.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:50 am
McClain is a problem to. But what happens when you get a MLB who plays on the back of his feet, and combine him with two DTs who constantly let blockers reach the second level?
Big run plays all day long. Sound familiar? Because it should.
TK and Richard Seymour are ProBowl players because they accumulate more stats than DTs normally do. That’s because they have no gap discipline and are focused on shedding their blockers and getting to the QB. Why do you think RB draw plays work time and time again?
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:51 am
SilverNBlackPA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Speaking of Wade Phillips, he took a team that was only ever 4-3 and had been terrible the past 2 seasons and make it a 3-4 unit that ranks #2 in points allowed per game and #3 in total yards allowed per game.
That, right there, is fair proof that coaching and scheme account for a whole lot more than people are willing to give credit for.
———————————-
That’s what I’m saying. We’ve got most of the pieces to run a successful defense whether it’s 3-4 or 4-3. Just need a DC who can make it work.
You’re telling me if we had Wade Phillips, Dick LeBeau, Mike Nolan, etc. we wouldn’t at least be top 10 or 15 in the league and possibly better. If we had that kind of defense we might be playing for home field advantage right now rather than fighting for our lives to just get in.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:53 am
YoungAmerican Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Well, I can also agree with that too. But that’s in the past. When TK’s play was not up to par. You have to consider he’s learned under Seymour, Seymour has brought a lot of tutelage to these players like Kelly, Bryant etc, since he’s been here. Enough that maybe Kelly has now in his own right developed where if he didn’t have another 3-tech DT next to him, but a 1-tech NT, in a 4-3, he could continue being effective.
—————–
That’s exactly it, though. The combination of Richard Seymour and TK has led to a bunch of sacks, but a porous run defense. One of them has to go, and there’s no telling how that will effect the other. Couple that with the fact that both are well on the wrong side of 30, and their combined salaries take up $20 million (a lot to pay for two DTs who have no gap discipline), and they’re not a viable combination if your concern is building for the future.
Time to move Houston or Bryant to 3-tech, and find a guy who can play 2-, 1-, or 0-tech depending on the situation.
—
agree with the long-term approach for sure. both over 30, ultimately they’re both expendable. Bryant is the future as we are all starting to see, would be a beast as a 4-3 UT or 3-4 DE. and there’d be nothing wrong with having a traditional 4-3 of a 1-tech NT and a 3-tech UT, if we draft that 1-tech. move bryant inside, shaugnessy back at RDE, and LDE houston. Or Houston 3-tech and Bryant the LDE.
Just right now, TK is not a dissable player for this defense. The scheme of the DL itself per Wauffle is what it is. And the LB play is woeful behind it.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:53 am
# Chris in NY Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am
TK’s leads NFL DT’s with 8 sacks this year and has added several key deflections this year. He’s coming off a game where he had a sack-fumble that we scored a key touchdown on. A game that was also one of our best efforts in run defense in recent times.
Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash? Is it his fault when the linebacker’s get sucked up into the wrong gap in run defense. Or when the ends fail to establish the edge? Or when McClain is too slow to get to the bc on an off-tackle run? Or when the safety takes a bad angle in run support?
I think our D can be fixed simply by having a coordinator who is an expert and who will hold these guys accountable to do their jobs and play tough, consistent football.
=============================================
This is exactly right. And remember, Kelly was a pro bowler last year. And was voted in by the players and coaches. The DE’s are not holding the edge, the LB’s are not sealing the inside. I can’t fault the Safeties. It is really hard to bring a 225 pound guy with a full head of steam down. You have to do that at the POA.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:53 am
529. lol! You’re talking about Wade Phillips turning around the Texans D?
Thats ridiculous.
The Texans D wasn;t horrible because of the 4-3, it was horrible because they never replaced CB Dunta Robinson.
You’re talking about Phillips reserrecting a D with Connor Barwin, DeMecco Ryans and Brian ****ing Cushing ect ect.
Maybe, maybe, Curry, McClain, Wimbley and co could convert but honestly, Oaklands D jokers struggle with basic 4-3 concepts every single game.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:54 am
541. 3rd level decimated by injury starting with Eugene of all people
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:56 am
SilverNBlackPA Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
Speaking of Wade Phillips, he took a team that was only ever 4-3 and had been terrible the past 2 seasons and make it a 3-4 unit that ranks #2 in points allowed per game and #3 in total yards allowed per game.
That, right there, is fair proof that coaching and scheme account for a whole lot more than people are willing to give credit for.
—-
and yes, another excellent post. things ARE attainable as soon as in one off-season/season. As per Harbaugh as HC or Phillips as DC. We cannot continue to accept mediocrity at DC/HC. I include HC because Hue, like Cable before him, has erred plenty in various ways. sure, he can learn and improve. But yeah, autonomous GM priority for everything else to fall into place below him.
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:57 am
new post btw
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:57 am
TK and Richard Seymour are ProBowl players because they accumulate more stats than DTs normally do.
=====================================
Kelly was voted in by the people that play against him, not some writer or fan looking at stats. Football players know stats are for fans, not football people.
December 22nd, 2011 at 12:05 pm
Get this through your thick Skulls Hue Haters:
Hue isn’t going to fire HIMSELF after this season…
He is calling the shots right now.
I realize this is offseason is going to last an eternity for all of us, but Hue is going to stay, they are going to get a GM, and this team is going to move on, get better, and progress to the next level. When you have the personnel that we do, and half of them get hurt, its pretty tough to overcome.
Breshnahan is gone after this season, which is fine..But remember, the Defensive collapse on Sunday was due to Personnel (PLAYERS) fu(king up all over the place. The Tampon Deuce is designed to not give up those kinds of plays…15 year old kids are running it in HIGH SCHOOL…It is a physical impossibility to let someone get behind you while playing that defense if you know what in the F you are doing..if ANYTHING there should have been a safety looking at that deep ball to Megatron the WHOLE TIME and Running FORWARD TOWARD the ball to make a play…YET our guys in all of their Mentally Deficient GLORY were running with their backs to the ball, totally unaware where the ball was or where they were in space, despite repeated Screams from the sidelines Ball! Ball! Ball!…
Disgusting and pathetic players did that on Sunday, NOT Bresnhahan..Hue even said “Players gotta make plays” and he is F’n A right..Curry Made a Play, Tyvon always does something..the D’line did their Job, but our back 7 are populated with some of the most mentally deficient morons I have ever seen in a uniform.
December 22nd, 2011 at 12:11 pm
GG Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
That 3-4 scheme that Wade Phillips uses is actually called the Phillips 3-4, his father Bum Phillips invented it.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Houston Oilers — Curly Culp — the first time I ever heard of a nose tackle
December 22nd, 2011 at 12:34 pm
Thumbs up Stabler76!
December 22nd, 2011 at 5:56 pm
THE RAIDER PREDICTION BOARD
Dedicated to the legacy of Al Davis
Protected by the rally squirrel and Coliseum rodents
2011 Raider Games
First: Ghostraider (exact score) Raiders 23 Broncos 20
Second: Sullivan44 Buffalo 38 Raiders 35
Third: Pretty Rick Raiders 34 Jets 24
Fourth: Sullivan44 Patriots 31 Raiders 14
Fifth: Fingers Raiders 24 Browns 17
Sixth: Zymurge Chiefs 28 Raiders 0 (WTF)
Honorable Mention: LA for PAIN
Seventh: Noone…at all. Broncos 38 Raiders 24
Eighth: La Milicia Negra (exact score (sadly))
Ninth: TheToozFan55 (exact score) Raiders 24 Bolts 17
Tenth: TRIPLE TIE (Exact score) Raiders 27 Vikings 20
R8eray + Just Fire Baby + The Big Banana
Eleventh: Beware of Raiders Raiders 25 Bears 20
Twelfth: Autopalm77 Dolphins 34 Raiders 14
Thirteenth: Sullivan44 Packers 43 Raiders 16
Fourteenth: Raiderdav Detriot 28 Raiders 27
Chris in NY Raiders 20, Chiefs 13
fingers Raiders 33… Chefs 17…
qodrn Raiders 27 Chiefs 24
Silverandblack666 Raiders 13 Chiefs 10
December 22nd, 2011 at 7:20 pm
#547, you do have a point. Those covering Megatron had only to look over their should when Megatron stopped and moved back toward the ball.
BTW, who the F is Boyd, and where did Hugh the Magnificient get him ? Remember, ole Jermone was brought in to try out (first played in the 49′er preseason game), a responsibility that both jizz-makers Hubert and Chucky share.
December 23rd, 2011 at 12:24 am
here’s a dream scenario….Hue Jacks up the final two games of the season…Raiders slip to last in the division….Bill Cowher comes out of retirement to take the reins of RN…brings Wade Phillips over from Houston with him….I know its a dream…Im still just pissed at Hue for the last game….Just think he is in over his head. RFL, regardless of the bum currently at the helm.