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Jackson talks about 4-3 vs. 3-4 defensive scheme

By Steve Corkran
Wednesday, December 21st, 2011 at 2:54 pm in Oakland Raiders.

There is plenty of speculation about whether the Raiders might convert to a 3-4 defensive scheme next season. On Wednesday, coach Hue Jackson fueled the fire by confirming that he isn’t averse to switching schemes.
“I am not wedded to anything,” Jackson said, when asked if he is a staunch proponent of the 4-3. “I am wedded to what’s going to help us win. As we continue to move forward, that’s the whole thing about everything you do – you have an opportunity to see what’s there, and you move forward and get better.
“I’m not going t stand pat and be like we’ve been, whether it’s offense, defense or special teams. I am going to always look to make this team and this organization better as long as I am here. Obviously, there are some areas we have to shore up and get better in and, I guarantee you, we will get better at them.”
The Raiders last ran the 3-4 in 2004, when Rob Ryan was the defensive coordinator. As we all know, that was a disaster from the outset.
Warren Sapp flopped in his conversion from defensive tackle to defensive end. The Raiders failed to get much pressure on the quarterback. End of experiment. Ryan switched back to the 4-3 in 2005.
Jackson will get another look at the 3-4 on Saturday, when the Raiders play a Kansas City Chiefs team coached by defensive-minded Romeo Crennel.
Crennel started as a 4-3 guy, but he converted to the 3-4 after spending time with former coach Bill Parcells. He said he “latched” on to the scheme because of the versatility it allows.
“If you have the right people to play it, it can be pretty effective because the end of the line linebackers are the adjusters and you don’t have to take an inside linebacker and walk him out. In today’s game where they try to spread you out all the time and get linebackers to walk out, it’s easier for us. Plus, the offenses have to determine which guy has to rush, and that’s not always an easy determination for them.”
As Crennel said, the key is having the right personnel. The Raiders didn’t have it in 2004, and they might not have all the pieces right now.
Yet, reading between the lines, Jackson intends to make some changes in the offseason and some of those just might be to address a change in schemes.

MCFADDEN, FORD SORE
Running back Darren McFadden and wide receiver Jacoby Ford sat out today because of the residual effect from their workout with a team trainer Tuesday, Jackson said.
“They did OK (Tuesday) but they are a little sore today,” Jackson said. “We’ll see where they are tomorrow and then we’ll know more. They ran quite a bit yesterday, and they were on it pretty good.”
Neither McFadden nor Ford was available during the media-access period, so we can’t provide their take on where they stand in relation to a possible return for Saturday’s game.
The fact Jackson said free safety Michael Huff (hamstring) needs to practice Thursday if he is to play Saturday, that likely holds true for McFadden, Ford and defensive tackle John Henderson.

PRYOR UPDATE
Every week, I get asked numerous questions about rookie quarterback Terrelle Pryor. Is he going to play? Why doesn’t Jackson put him in late in one-sided games? How does he look in practice?
Well, I took many of those questions to Pryor in an attempt to provide some insight into a player who missed almost all of training camp after arriving via the supplemental draft in late August, served a five-game suspension to start the season and has spent most of his time watching veterans Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller and Carson Palmer in practice.
“I’m coming along well,” Pryor said. “I’m really getting used to the speed of the game from the defensive perspective of getting in on me. It’s getting better. I can’t really complain. I just got to wait.”
That doesn’t mean Pryor can’t spend his time gleaning information from three veterans, as well as offensive coordinator Al Saunders and Jackson.
Pryor finally is at the point where he feels comfortable with the offense, and he is ready to put into action the things he has learned the past four months or so.
“I can say the plays and I got everything down,” Pryor said. “I know the protections. It took me about two or three months. It was frustrating because I didn’t get to hit the ground running. It took me awhile to catch up because I didn’t start from Day One. But now, I’m ready to go.”
It’s unlikely that Pryor will play Saturday against the Kansas City Chiefs or in the regular-season finale against the San Diego Chargers on Jan. 1. He has played one down so far, when he motioned from a wide receiver position to the quarterback on a fourth-and-one play.
Alas, he got called for a false-start penalty and hasn’t played again. For now, Pryor said he is eager to have an entire offseason so that he can get a chance to show Jackson, his teammates and Raiders fans what he can do once he gets a chance to play.
“I just can’t wait to start when everybody starts equal so I can have a chance to get some reps and get some plays in,” Pryor said. “That’s all I’m looking forward to, just playing. I want to show the city what I got and help the team as much as I can.”

NO SYMPATHY FROM CHIEFS
People are quick to point to injuries to Darren McFadden, Jason Campbell, Jacoby Ford, Denarius Moore, and others, as the reason the Raiders are 7-7 and long-shots to make the AFC Playoffs.
At least they had those players healthy for more than one game this season. The Chiefs lost starting tight end Tony Moeaki during training camp, starting safety Eric Berry in the regular-season opener, lead running back Jamaal Charles in the second game and quarterback Matt Cassel more than a month ago.
“It definitely hurts but everybody loses people in the NFL,” Chiefs coach Romeo Crennel said Wednesday in a conference call. “That’s part of the business we’re in. We have to overcome, and you try to overcome, the best that you can.”
The Chiefs also are dealing with a quarterback change for the second time this season, the recent firing of coach Todd Haley and an 0-3 start.
Yet, through it all, the Chiefs are very much alive in terms of the playoffs picture. Crennel said the Chiefs can’t look past the Raiders.
“Strange things happen in the NFL, particularly this year, because of the offseason and training camp, the way it was set up,” Crennel said. “We’re just fortunate to be in the position we’re in. If it turns out that we can make it, we would love that. But we can’t look beyond the Raider game because if we don’t do anything in that one, then it doesn’t make any difference.”

AMAZING … BUT TRUE
Darrius Heyward-Bey is within reach of his first 1,000-yard season. Perhaps more surprising, the Raiders haven’t had a 1,000-yard receiver since Randy Moss rolled for 1,005 in 2005.
Heyward-Bey is at 775 yards through 14 games. He needs to average 112.5 yards in Oakland’s final two games to reach the magical mark for the first time in his three-year NFL career.

PALMER GETS ANOTHER SHOT AT CHIEFS
Palmer’s first game as a Raider came in relief of Boller against the Chiefs on Oct. 23. The Raiders trailed 21-0 at that point and ended up losing 28-0.
Palmer played despite arriving five days earlier and knowing about 10 percent of the playbook, by his estimation. The results were predictable. Palmer was intercepted three times and looked out of synch.
Chiefs cornerback Brandon Flowers intercepted Palmer and returned it for a touchdown. He said Wednesday that Palmer is a much differen player today.
“They look more polished,” Flowers said. “Carson Palmer had time to get his timing routes down with the receivers, you could see they’re really starting to jell as an offense and you can tell the chemistry is starting to come along. Rather than when Carson Palmer played the first time, he got in, it was like he was just trying to play backyard football.”
Palmer said playing that game won’t give him much of an edge, if any, come Saturday.
“I’m not taking much from that game,” Palmer said. “They’re a different team. We’re a different offense now. Personnel-wise, I guess, it helps a little bit, but they’re playing a little bit differently now, and we’re definitely playing a little bit differently. And it’s in their environment.”

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  • Seymour Bush

    GG Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Game-changer at OLB, say hello to Kamerion Wimbley, a veritable animal pass-rushing.
    ==================================

    I like Wimbley but Demarcus Ware he ain’t.

  • uglyorc

    Offense positional depth charts…

    Quarterback:
    Campbell gone, Boller must go, keep Palmer and Pryor.

    Half-Backs:
    Bush tradeable, Cartwright expendable, Taiwan and McFadden keepers.

    Full-Backs:
    Tonga and Reece keepers.

    Wide-Receivers:
    Moore, Ford, DHB, Murphy keepers.

    Tight-Ends:
    Boss, Gordon, Ausberry, Myers, all keepers.

    Offensive Line:
    Barksdale, Veldheer, Wizniewski keepers. Campbell to be assessed playing multiple real snaps. Heyer to compete for roster spot. Carlisle, Barnes, Satele can go.

    There are plenty of practice squad players in various positions above don’t know enough about or can’t be assessed without seeing them actually play.

    There’s a lot more talent there than on defense. But definitely still a large number of spots open for depth and pushing starters. Especially OL can always keep improving, never tire of upgrading that.

    The trenches above all else.
    ————————————-

    You cant trade a player who isnt under contract. Bush either walks or is resigned, no other possible outcome.

    Tonga will be a bubble player again and if he isnt eligible for the practice squad he’ll likely be gone. There are always a dozen + players like him available to sign. No real loss despite what some posters might want you to believe.

    Satele is under contract one more year and not all that expensive. He’ll be back unless we make a couple big aquisitions in free agency for interior linemen. I believe that Heyer, Barnes, and Carlisle are all three free agents. It stands to reason one or more will be resigned, especially with so little draft picks.

  • YoungAmerican

    bcz24 Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Kyle Williams is only 6-1 300, and he is a damn good NT. You don’t have to be huge, you just have to be willing to occupy blockers all day.

    ————–

    Exactly. It’s a style of play, not just your size. Plenty of big men (ie John Henderson) aren’t cut out for 3-4 NT.

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    Okay so brainstorming with others adding critiques, remember we’re just working on what we have, and even say using 3-4 packages versus the Chiefs why not…

    NT: Kelly
    DE: Bryant-Seymour (Houston subbing)
    OLB: Wimbley-Groves
    ILB: McClain-Curry

    It might not be a Steelers/Niners star-studded fully perfect 3-4, but don’t tell me you wouldn’t be keen to see it in action say for a whole quarter.

  • M Lonetree

    Mis-plays of the year

    Tyvon Branch letting a sure interception go through his arms in the end zone for a Buffie TD.

    JaSoup throwing a horrible interception in the end zone just before halftime against the Pewks.

    Allowing Kyle Boller to put on a helmet.

    Aaron Curry personal foul as TBone runs out of bounds way short of the needed yardage on 3rd and 20.

    Leaving the team hotel in Miami.

    Carson Palmer’s panicked interception on the first series against Green Bay.

    Carson Palmer overthrowing the wide open in the end zone Denarius Moore.

    every loss has a signature moment

  • YoungAmerican

    If the Raiders go 3-4, Kelly is gone.

    Truthfully, Kelly should be gone anyway. Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.

    Find a team willing to part with a mid-round pick or two for a decent interior pass rusher, and use his $5 million to improve other parts of the team.

  • Chris in NY

    GG Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 10:08 am
    The blow it up thing means essentially a GM with full football department autonomy. Bringing his own learned winning ways from another organization, or groomed by a successful organization, or has a history of successful GMing.

    Comes in and evaluates everything as he sees fit, and makes the changes, however much. Establishes himself as the authority, the leader, and there’s a true chain of command flowing down. All disciplined and accountable. And importantly, the GM DISPLAYING that commitment to accountability and consistency to all below.

    Such that everyone and anyone on the rosters football staff is subject to firing. No scholarships, no excuses, no compromises in keeping highly-paid players or main coaches that can end up creating divisiveness in the lockerroom and coaching staff.

    —————————————–

    Sounds good, but isn’t that what the Rams, Jags, Browns and many other miserable franchises have done. Basically what every other franchise besides us and the Cowboys have done for years and years.

    No sense in throwing away talent and blowing up a roster and coaching staff of a team that’s been on the rise for the sake of establishing the authority of some new GM.

    Assuming we do get a new GM, he should be smart enough to realize we have a ton of young talent and could be on the cusp of something special. And not someone who feels he has to bring in his own guys just because that’s who he’s comfortable with and try to blow up the roster for the sake of making his own mark.

    This may make your eyes and ears bleed, but I would have no problem giving Hue full control of the roster and football operations through 2012. Guy swung the deal for Palmer, which I love and let’s face it, we’d be 5-9 at best right now if Boller had started the last 8 games. And Curry was an absolute steal. Bad call, IMO, dropping Hagan for TJH, but it was really minor compared to the positive impact of the other two moves.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Allowing Kyle Boller to put on a helmet.

    Leaving the team hotel in Miami.

    +++++++++++++++++

    LMFAO!

    Excellent (and sad) list

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Truthfully, Kelly should be gone anyway. Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.

    +++++++

    100% this

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    YoungAmerican Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.

    That’s Wauffles DL scheme. What he used at the Giants and Raiders before.

    It’s a scheme maximizing pass-rushing, but naturally is prone to getting beat on the ground.

    Disagree with anyone who disses Kelly’s play (for the most part) in 2011. He’s been very effective in that role he’s playing for Wauffle, much more effective than Seymour. Tho Seymour when his head is on right and plays hard, can be even more tremendous.

  • Chris in NY

    Wonder if Des Bryant can play NT. He’s not a whale like a Wilfork, but he’s definitely a big cat and I recall when Kelly was asked who the strongest dude on the team is he didn’t hesitate to say that it’s Bryant.

  • bcz24

    This may make your eyes and ears bleed, but I would have no problem giving Hue full control of the roster and football operations through 2012
    **************
    Nah, we need a GM. Hue has to focus on coaching, he doesn’t need the added pressure of running everything operationally too. Very few Coach/GMs have ever been successful. Of course Hue’s should have input in the roster, as any other HC in the NFL does.

  • YoungAmerican

    That’s Wauffles DL scheme. What he used at the Giants and Raiders before.

    It’s a scheme maximizing pass-rushing, but naturally is prone to getting beat on the ground.

    Disagree with anyone who disses Kelly’s play (for the most part) in 2011. He’s been very effective in that role he’s playing for Wauffle, much more effective than Seymour. Tho Seymour when his head is on right and plays hard, can be even more tremendous.

    —————-

    TK has always been a 3-tech. The only thing that has made him effective is having Richard Seymour next to him.

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    Chris in NY Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:30 am

    very true. but the key part again is ensuring the GM is not a loser or wannabe. someone groomed in a successful organization (dominick-pats, or current ravens-deputy, or packers-deputy), someone who has experience as a successful GM (none of the Cowhers or Holmgrens etc) who were HCs with GM’ing abilities. But specialized GMs.

  • GoodOle00

    504. Haven’t been folliwng it as much this year but Oakland has run a 3-4 look in recent memory.

    RNS mentioned that a 3-4 is s stupid idea because premium 3-4 DTs are rarer than premium QBs and much more prone to break down.

    There are only so many 320-350 lb defenders capable of taking having 2, 300+ lb O linemen crushing into their hips 16+ games per year.

    Not to mention great 3-4 D Coaches…

    Oakland stays 4-3 at least thru 2012.

  • Chris in NY

    bcz24 Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
    This may make your eyes and ears bleed, but I would have no problem giving Hue full control of the roster and football operations through 2012
    **************
    Nah, we need a GM. Hue has to focus on coaching, he doesn’t need the added pressure of running everything operationally too. Very few Coach/GMs have ever been successful. Of course Hue’s should have input in the roster, as any other HC in the NFL does.

    ——————————————

    I think he would be the GM just in the sense of having final say of the roster and having the scouts report to him. We don’t have many draft picks next year anyway and Hue has to know this roster better than anyone right now.

  • GoodOle00

    513. mKelly (for the Raiders) has had production before Seymour.

    Kelly Gregg was always hurt with the Ravens but always liked his game.

    He is playing very well unfortunately

  • Dr. Hunter S. Thompson

    Hue not going for two.

  • GoodOle00

    516. Completely agree. Need a GM.

  • YoungAmerican

    Kelly had one good season, a big contract, and then a lot of nothing until Richard Seymour showed up.

  • GoodOle00

    518. RMR Sully44 ect ect TROLL alert!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    YoungAmerican

    TK has always been a 3-tech. The only thing that has made him effective is having Richard Seymour next to him.

    —-

    Well, I can also agree with that too. But that’s in the past. When TK’s play was not up to par. You have to consider he’s learned under Seymour, Seymour has brought a lot of tutelage to these players like Kelly, Bryant etc, since he’s been here. Enough that maybe Kelly has now in his own right developed where if he didn’t have another 3-tech DT next to him, but a 1-tech NT, in a 4-3, he could continue being effective.

  • GoodOle00

    520. Had one good season, blew his knee out, became the highest paid DL EVER, then had sub par production till Seymour

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Chris in NY Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am
    Wonder if Des Bryant can play NT. He’s not a whale like a Wilfork, but he’s definitely a big cat and I recall when Kelly was asked who the strongest dude on the team is he didn’t hesitate to say that it’s Bryant.

    ++++++++++++++

    Depends on the 3-4 co-ordinator.

    Wade Phillips & Rob Ryan run a scheme where the NT isn’t just required to hold his ground and eat up blocks, but to penetrate and collapse the pocket. Jay Ratliff and Shaun Cody each only go about 300 pounds.

    Then, of course, there’s the traditional 3-4 NT who’s huge and beefy and occupies space.

  • Chris in NY

    TK’s leads NFL DT’s with 8 sacks this year and has added several key deflections this year. He’s coming off a game where he had a sack-fumble that we scored a key touchdown on. A game that was also one of our best efforts in run defense in recent times.

    Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash? Is it his fault when the linebacker’s get sucked up into the wrong gap in run defense. Or when the ends fail to establish the edge? Or when McClain is too slow to get to the bc on an off-tackle run? Or when the safety takes a bad angle in run support?

    I think our D can be fixed simply by having a coordinator who is an expert and who will hold these guys accountable to do their jobs and play tough, consistent football.

  • GoodOle00

    LISTEN BRESNAHAN!

    Running Zone D with this personnel is a bad idea, like eating a burrito before sex.

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    That 3-4 scheme that Wade Phillips uses is actually called the Phillips 3-4, his father Bum Phillips invented it.

  • YoungAmerican

    Well, I can also agree with that too. But that’s in the past. When TK’s play was not up to par. You have to consider he’s learned under Seymour, Seymour has brought a lot of tutelage to these players like Kelly, Bryant etc, since he’s been here. Enough that maybe Kelly has now in his own right developed where if he didn’t have another 3-tech DT next to him, but a 1-tech NT, in a 4-3, he could continue being effective.

    —————–

    That’s exactly it, though. The combination of Richard Seymour and TK has led to a bunch of sacks, but a porous run defense. One of them has to go, and there’s no telling how that will effect the other. Couple that with the fact that both are well on the wrong side of 30, and their combined salaries take up $20 million (a lot to pay for two DTs who have no gap discipline), and they’re not a viable combination if your concern is building for the future.

    Time to move Houston or Bryant to 3-tech, and find a guy who can play 2-, 1-, or 0-tech depending on the situation.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Speaking of Wade Phillips, he took a team that was only ever 4-3 and had been terrible the past 2 seasons and make it a 3-4 unit that ranks #2 in points allowed per game and #3 in total yards allowed per game.

    That, right there, is fair proof that coaching and scheme account for a whole lot more than people are willing to give credit for.

  • GoodOle00

    525. Nice.

  • YoungAmerican

    Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash? Is it his fault when the linebacker’s get sucked up into the wrong gap in run defense. Or when the ends fail to establish the edge? Or when McClain is too slow to get to the bc on an off-tackle run? Or when the safety takes a bad angle in run support?

    —————

    TK LEAVES his gap, exposing the Raiders already-shaky LB corps to offensive linemen who can easily reach the second level.

  • Silverandblack666

    “Carson Palmer overthrowing the wide open in the end zone Denarius Moore.”

    Not sure how many times this has been said in here maybe 100,000 times but for the 100,001th time here we go:

    Moore was held on that play if you watch the replay you will see it. As he was breaking for the ball a defender grabbed his jersey the ball was where it needed to be but he was held.

    Sure Palmer took the blame he is a pro that’s what pros do.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    TK LEAVES his gap, exposing the Raiders already-shaky LB corps to offensive linemen who can easily reach the second level.

    +++++++++++++++

    Yep, he’s always freelancing. If he could occupy his gap and get to the QB 8-10 times a year, he’d be worth every penny.

  • Seymour Bush

    # GG Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:34 am

    YoungAmerican Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Having two pass-rushing 3-techs in the middle of your defensive line, guys who are both trying to shed their blockers and get to the ball carrier, is a huge reason for the terrible run defense.

    That’s Wauffles DL scheme. What he used at the Giants and Raiders before.

    It’s a scheme maximizing pass-rushing, but naturally is prone to getting beat on the ground.

    Disagree with anyone who disses Kelly’s play (for the most part) in 2011. He’s been very effective in that role he’s playing for Wauffle, much more effective than Seymour. Tho Seymour when his head is on right and plays hard, can be even more tremendous.
    ==========================================

    I have to agree with GG on this one. I don’t think your portrayal of the DT’s is entirely accurate YA. And I don’t think NFL people will agree with you either. Hence why both our DT’s are pro bowl players. What we have here is a hesitant MLB. A play begins and either he chooses the wrong gap, or waits to be blocked. Kirk Morrison was exactly the same way. When you watch Ray Lewis, a play begins and he diagnoses it, and attacks it. With us, a play starts, there is hesitation, our guy is blocked, he does not shed, and the play goes for big yardage. And then it happens over and over again.
    Think I am kidding? Watch Cushing tonight. Cushing does EXACTLY what I am saying. McClain waits to get blocked.

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    #525 from Chris in NY…

    good to have a compatriot TK appreciator. He HAS been good this year and started coming on last year. Yes, Seymour, but like i said, have to consider the tutelage under Seymour CAN and possibly HAS been like good coaching, where TK develops and takes that step up. TK has been effective, and doesnt deserve to be dissed on his play. He’s playing a role, and he’s playing it well.

  • John David Booty

    GoodOle00 Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am

    LISTEN BRESNAHAN!

    Running Zone D with this personnel is a bad idea, like eating a burrito before sex.
    ______________________________________________
    Yeah, man. Gotta have that burrito DURING the act.

  • Silverandblack666

    “TK’s leads NFL DT’s with 8 sacks this year and has added several key deflections this year. He’s coming off a game where he had a sack-fumble that we scored a key touchdown on. A game that was also one of our best efforts in run defense in recent times.

    Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash?”

    Because that is the only game in the last 3 years where he has had that kind of impact might have something to do with it and he is being paid to perform like pro bowler you might want to consider that as well when judging him.

  • YoungAmerican

    McClain is a problem to. But what happens when you get a MLB who plays on the back of his feet, and combine him with two DTs who constantly let blockers reach the second level?

    Big run plays all day long. Sound familiar? Because it should.

    TK and Richard Seymour are ProBowl players because they accumulate more stats than DTs normally do. That’s because they have no gap discipline and are focused on shedding their blockers and getting to the QB. Why do you think RB draw plays work time and time again?

  • Chris in NY

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
    Speaking of Wade Phillips, he took a team that was only ever 4-3 and had been terrible the past 2 seasons and make it a 3-4 unit that ranks #2 in points allowed per game and #3 in total yards allowed per game.

    That, right there, is fair proof that coaching and scheme account for a whole lot more than people are willing to give credit for.

    ———————————-

    That’s what I’m saying. We’ve got most of the pieces to run a successful defense whether it’s 3-4 or 4-3. Just need a DC who can make it work.

    You’re telling me if we had Wade Phillips, Dick LeBeau, Mike Nolan, etc. we wouldn’t at least be top 10 or 15 in the league and possibly better. If we had that kind of defense we might be playing for home field advantage right now rather than fighting for our lives to just get in.

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    YoungAmerican Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Well, I can also agree with that too. But that’s in the past. When TK’s play was not up to par. You have to consider he’s learned under Seymour, Seymour has brought a lot of tutelage to these players like Kelly, Bryant etc, since he’s been here. Enough that maybe Kelly has now in his own right developed where if he didn’t have another 3-tech DT next to him, but a 1-tech NT, in a 4-3, he could continue being effective.

    —————–

    That’s exactly it, though. The combination of Richard Seymour and TK has led to a bunch of sacks, but a porous run defense. One of them has to go, and there’s no telling how that will effect the other. Couple that with the fact that both are well on the wrong side of 30, and their combined salaries take up $20 million (a lot to pay for two DTs who have no gap discipline), and they’re not a viable combination if your concern is building for the future.

    Time to move Houston or Bryant to 3-tech, and find a guy who can play 2-, 1-, or 0-tech depending on the situation.

    agree with the long-term approach for sure. both over 30, ultimately they’re both expendable. Bryant is the future as we are all starting to see, would be a beast as a 4-3 UT or 3-4 DE. and there’d be nothing wrong with having a traditional 4-3 of a 1-tech NT and a 3-tech UT, if we draft that 1-tech. move bryant inside, shaugnessy back at RDE, and LDE houston. Or Houston 3-tech and Bryant the LDE.

    Just right now, TK is not a dissable player for this defense. The scheme of the DL itself per Wauffle is what it is. And the LB play is woeful behind it.

  • Seymour Bush

    # Chris in NY Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:44 am

    TK’s leads NFL DT’s with 8 sacks this year and has added several key deflections this year. He’s coming off a game where he had a sack-fumble that we scored a key touchdown on. A game that was also one of our best efforts in run defense in recent times.

    Remind me why so many in here act like he’s utter trash? Is it his fault when the linebacker’s get sucked up into the wrong gap in run defense. Or when the ends fail to establish the edge? Or when McClain is too slow to get to the bc on an off-tackle run? Or when the safety takes a bad angle in run support?

    I think our D can be fixed simply by having a coordinator who is an expert and who will hold these guys accountable to do their jobs and play tough, consistent football.
    =============================================

    This is exactly right. And remember, Kelly was a pro bowler last year. And was voted in by the players and coaches. The DE’s are not holding the edge, the LB’s are not sealing the inside. I can’t fault the Safeties. It is really hard to bring a 225 pound guy with a full head of steam down. You have to do that at the POA.

  • GoodOle00

    529. lol! You’re talking about Wade Phillips turning around the Texans D?

    Thats ridiculous.

    The Texans D wasn;t horrible because of the 4-3, it was horrible because they never replaced CB Dunta Robinson.

    You’re talking about Phillips reserrecting a D with Connor Barwin, DeMecco Ryans and Brian ****ing Cushing ect ect.

    Maybe, maybe, Curry, McClain, Wimbley and co could convert but honestly, Oaklands D jokers struggle with basic 4-3 concepts every single game.

  • GoodOle00

    541. 3rd level decimated by injury starting with Eugene of all people

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Speaking of Wade Phillips, he took a team that was only ever 4-3 and had been terrible the past 2 seasons and make it a 3-4 unit that ranks #2 in points allowed per game and #3 in total yards allowed per game.

    That, right there, is fair proof that coaching and scheme account for a whole lot more than people are willing to give credit for.

    —-

    and yes, another excellent post. things ARE attainable as soon as in one off-season/season. As per Harbaugh as HC or Phillips as DC. We cannot continue to accept mediocrity at DC/HC. I include HC because Hue, like Cable before him, has erred plenty in various ways. sure, he can learn and improve. But yeah, autonomous GM priority for everything else to fall into place below him.

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    new post btw

  • Seymour Bush

    TK and Richard Seymour are ProBowl players because they accumulate more stats than DTs normally do.
    =====================================

    Kelly was voted in by the people that play against him, not some writer or fan looking at stats. Football players know stats are for fans, not football people.

  • MikieG

    Get this through your thick Skulls Hue Haters:

    Hue isn’t going to fire HIMSELF after this season…

    He is calling the shots right now.

    I realize this is offseason is going to last an eternity for all of us, but Hue is going to stay, they are going to get a GM, and this team is going to move on, get better, and progress to the next level. When you have the personnel that we do, and half of them get hurt, its pretty tough to overcome.

    Breshnahan is gone after this season, which is fine..But remember, the Defensive collapse on Sunday was due to Personnel (PLAYERS) fu(king up all over the place. The Tampon Deuce is designed to not give up those kinds of plays…15 year old kids are running it in HIGH SCHOOL…It is a physical impossibility to let someone get behind you while playing that defense if you know what in the F you are doing..if ANYTHING there should have been a safety looking at that deep ball to Megatron the WHOLE TIME and Running FORWARD TOWARD the ball to make a play…YET our guys in all of their Mentally Deficient GLORY were running with their backs to the ball, totally unaware where the ball was or where they were in space, despite repeated Screams from the sidelines Ball! Ball! Ball!…
    Disgusting and pathetic players did that on Sunday, NOT Bresnhahan..Hue even said “Players gotta make plays” and he is F’n A right..Curry Made a Play, Tyvon always does something..the D’line did their Job, but our back 7 are populated with some of the most mentally deficient morons I have ever seen in a uniform.

  • Stabler76

    GG Says:
    December 22nd, 2011 at 11:45 am
    That 3-4 scheme that Wade Phillips uses is actually called the Phillips 3-4, his father Bum Phillips invented it.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Houston Oilers — Curly Culp — the first time I ever heard of a nose tackle

  • http://ggeden.wordpress.com/ GG

    Thumbs up Stabler76!

  • qodrn1

    THE RAIDER PREDICTION BOARD

    Dedicated to the legacy of Al Davis
    Protected by the rally squirrel and Coliseum rodents

    2011 Raider Games

    First: Ghostraider (exact score) Raiders 23 Broncos 20
    Second: Sullivan44 Buffalo 38 Raiders 35
    Third: Pretty Rick Raiders 34 Jets 24
    Fourth: Sullivan44 Patriots 31 Raiders 14
    Fifth: Fingers Raiders 24 Browns 17
    Sixth: Zymurge Chiefs 28 Raiders 0 (WTF)
    Honorable Mention: LA for PAIN
    Seventh: Noone…at all. Broncos 38 Raiders 24
    Eighth: La Milicia Negra (exact score (sadly))
    Ninth: TheToozFan55 (exact score) Raiders 24 Bolts 17
    Tenth: TRIPLE TIE (Exact score) Raiders 27 Vikings 20
    R8eray + Just Fire Baby + The Big Banana
    Eleventh: Beware of Raiders Raiders 25 Bears 20
    Twelfth: Autopalm77 Dolphins 34 Raiders 14
    Thirteenth: Sullivan44 Packers 43 Raiders 16
    Fourteenth: Raiderdav Detriot 28 Raiders 27

    Chris in NY Raiders 20, Chiefs 13
    fingers Raiders 33… Chefs 17…
    qodrn Raiders 27 Chiefs 24
    Silverandblack666 Raiders 13 Chiefs 10