Part of the Bay Area News Group

Beat writer Jerry McDonald’s take from today’s proceedings

By Steve Corkran
Monday, November 19th, 2012 at 5:20 pm in Oakland Raiders.

By Jerry McDonald
Staff writer

Owner Mark Davis isn’t the only person who has a problem with the way the Raiders have played over the past three weeks.

“Hey, I’m right there with him,” Raiders coach Dennis Allen said Monday at his weekly press conference. “I’m frustrated. I’m disappointed. You wake up in the morning and your gut hurts.

“At the same time, when a man gets knocked down he gets up and fights. And that’s exactly what we intend to do. I understand his frustration; I can appreciate that. Let me tell you there’s nobody that’s going to work any harder to get it corrected than I will.”

Davis had an impromptu meeting with the press following Sunday’s 38-17 loss to New Orleans, saying he was a patient man but unhappy with “regression.”

When asked if general manager Reggie McKenzie and Allen received a pass this year because of salary cap issues and injuries, Davis said, “I wouldn’t call it a pass. They’ve got contracts, they’re going to be here.”

Next up for the Raiders is a visit to Cincinnati on Sunday and with it the twin storylines of Carson Palmer’s return to Paul Brown Stadium and former Raiders coach Hue Jackson being on the opposite sideline with the Bengals as an assistant coach.

Beating the Bengals, 5-5, after an unprecedented three-game stretch during which the Raiders have given up 135 points, would brighten the outlook considerably.

“When you lose, it hurts, rips your gut out,” Allen said. “A win turns everything around. A win makes everybody feels a lot better. And that’s what we need to do. We need to come together as a football team and all make a decision that we’re going to do what it takes to win football games.”

Allen’s message to the team was to stick together and Palmer believes his talk hit the mark.

“His message was really good, spoken from a guy who’s been on good teams, been on bad teams and been the middle also,” Palmer said. “I think this team will respond very well to his message. We have to stick together. I don’t think that’s an issue. We know what areas we need to improve on. This is a group that is not going to shy away from that.”

The Raiders issues have remained fairly constant since the season began. Offensively, they’ve had difficulty running the ball, although Marcel Reece had 103 yards on 19 carries against New Orleans. They’ve had difficulty converting third downs and in the red zone.

Defensively, the Raiders have had periods of being unable to stop both the run and pass, and against New Orleans both problems were in evidence at the same time.

“I think consistency has been our biggest Achilles’ heel,” Palmer said. “We’ve put together great plays or a great quarter or a great half on every side of the ball. But consistently doing it — the teams that win consistently in this league play consistently well four quarters of the game.”

Defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who has missed the last two games with a hamstring strain, agreed.

“It isn’t the most talented teams that win in this league, it’s the teams that do everything right over and over and over again,” Seymour said. “We’ve been inconsistent at times, offense, defense and special teams. Any time that happens, the record speaks for itself.”

– Allen hopes to see players such as Seymour (hamstring), Darren McFadden (ankle), Mike Goodson (ankle) and Tyvon Branch (neck) back on the practice field, but made it a point to say injuries were no excuse and had no information as to whether any or all could return this week.

– One of the people Allen has sought for counsel is Dan Reeves, the head coach in Atlanta when he had his first NFL job.

– Asked if he has enough good players to turn things around, Allen said, “I firmly believe that. I think of you look at it the other way around that’s an excuse, a crutch to say you can’t get it done.”

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  • oakfoshow

    Told ya.Hue is giggling his a$$ off right now.

  • inonewordraider

    I doubt there is a GM working today in the NFL who could turn the Raiders around in nine games into a season. Give RM time. Think about it……
    ____________
    fred says he’s the most knowledgeable guy in the blog, he says give reggie ten years to see some progress, it’s the patented

    “ten and then” plan

  • Just Fire Baby

    Should be fun watching our secondary try to match up with AJ Green, and work on furthering our horrendous coverage of TE’s, with Gresham.

    This might be the once a month game our D-line plays reallly well and every announcer then tells us how great our D-line is every game afterwards.

  • Just Fire Baby

    Hue is giggling his a$$ off right now

    *****************************

    Why?

    He took like a 75% paycut.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    Hue- 55
    Dennis 6

  • Just Fire Baby

    All Hue Jackson and everyone else cares about is #1.

    Hue lost his best job he ever had, lost a ton of income, and is back as a low-level assistant.

    Nothing to be giggling about.

  • inonewordraider

    Reggie needs to make a move, DA isn’t the guy and we’ll draft according to his O and D system if he sticks around. That’ll set us back more years

  • DKnight007

    698.GreatWhiteRaider Says:
    November 20th, 2012 at 8:33 am
    The Raiders have too many inexperienced people in Leadership positions and need to bring in some people who have done it before. Reggie, DA et all may be very talented guys who know football, but all of them together under these circumstances is just not working.

    Perception is reality, after losing for over a decade, the Raiders have a credibility problem and need to show their fans that they can right the ship. Bringing in guys with no track record at their current position does not solve that.

    Whether it’s Chucky, Holmgren or Andy Reid, the Raiders need a proven guy to bring in some stability and experience to get this sorted out.

    If you want a rookie GM…hire a coach with experience. If you want a rookie coach, pair him with a GM who knows the terrain and can run the organization.

    Unfortunately everything these guys have done has blown up in their faces and because they are all new, it looks really bad. President, GM, HC….one or two of those positions needs an experienced (successful track record) guy.

    ^^^^^^^
    Yep.

    Can’t have rookies at the most important positions. Owner, GM and head coach.

    If Reid is available after this season. McK should make a hard push to get him and see if Reid can or if DA is willing to be stay on as Reids DC.

  • Just Fire Baby

    if DA is willing to be stay on as Reids DC.

    ****************************

    You don’t SERIOUSLY think that is even a possibility do you?

    What planet do you live on if so? No HC would ever do that. Not one.

    DA has accomplished more at 40 years old than just about anyone in the game of football right now. Show me an under 40 guy outside of Mike Tomlin who has accomplished more.

  • DKnight007

    756.Just Fire Baby Says:
    November 20th, 2012 at 9:32 am
    All Hue Jackson and everyone else cares about is #1.

    Hue lost his best job he ever had, lost a ton of income, and is back as a low-level assistant.

    Nothing to be giggling about.

    ^^^^^^^^
    Blah….blah…..blah.

    Hue Jackson is a better head coach and OC than DA and Krappy.

    Davis and McK screwed up by dumping Hue waaaaaaay to quickly. Proof is in the pudding.

    Heck, I think Cal should fire Tedford and look to hire McIntyre from SJSU, Hue Jackson or Niners OC Greg Roman as their next head coach.

    Tedford isn’t taking Cal anywhere.

  • Just Fire Baby

    Bill Bellicheck’s resume at 40 years old is nothing compared to DA’s.

  • Just Fire Baby

    I have been saying fire Tedford and hire Hue for 5 months now.

    Hue is perfect for the college ranks. A mid-level BCS program is perfect for him.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    Can’t have rookies at the most important positions. Owner, GM and head coach.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Rookie owner (not a problem IMO)
    Rookie GM
    Rookie HC
    Rookie DC
    Knapp is as clueless as a rookie OC

  • DKnight007

    761.Just Fire Baby Says:
    November 20th, 2012 at 9:38 am
    Bill Bellicheck’s resume at 40 years old is nothing compared to DA’s.

    ^^^^^^^^
    Resumes don’t matter. What matters is wins and losses and how the team is prepared and plays on the field.

    The last 3 weeks the team has looked like crap and DA looks either lost or not interested….just staring at the field like a dear in the headlights. No fight in the kid.

    You should know that.

  • weaselbit

    How many Super Bowls Reid win?

    Yeah lets get another guy who’s never won a Super Bowl so we can be wannabees like the Eagles, or Broncos and Bills from the 80′s.

  • Just Fire Baby

    It’s all about where you are at, at the end of your tenure.

    Hue got 2 years with the team, and was 8-8 at the end of it.

    DA will get two years, and if he is not 8-8 at the end of next year, he will be canned.

    Pretty simple math.

  • DKnight007

    763.Raider O Says:
    November 20th, 2012 at 9:40 am
    Can’t have rookies at the most important positions. Owner, GM and head coach.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    Rookie owner (not a problem IMO)
    Rookie GM
    Rookie HC
    Rookie DC
    Knapp is as clueless as a rookie OC

    ^^^^^^^
    Yep!

    Big Wiz knew something was fishy and he said screw this….I’m outta here.

  • MiamiRaider78

    The Human IQ Retardant is here.

  • weaselbit

    still it would be a step up

  • Just Fire Baby

    Resumes don’t matter. What matters is wins and losses and how the team is prepared and plays on the field.

    The last 3 weeks the team has looked like crap and DA looks either lost or not interested….just staring at the field like a dear in the headlights. No fight in the kid.

    ***********************************

    So resumes don’t matter, eh?

    Well than, throw out last years 8-8 and tell me how well the team looked the last 5 weeks of the season?

    Getting housed just as bad as we have the last few weeks. No fight in the team, no pride to win a home game, a blocked FG away from going 0-5 to end the year.

    Great point, thanks.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    Hue needs to stay in the NFL. Going to college will effect his NFL career.
    If Knapp can find a job as OC (as many times as he did), then I’m sure Hue can find an OC job in the next few years.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    3-7 is DAs resume….3 of those 7 have not even been close….as mark davis

  • Raider-in-PA

    Recipe for success:

    Gruden – HC
    DA – Def Coord
    OC – ?? (restore power blocking scheme)
    Tarver – gone
    Knapp – gone

    Pryor – Switch to slot receiver & get on the field NOW 2012!
    DMAC – trade for 2-3rd round pick (if possible)
    McClain – trade for anything
    Kelly/Huff – restructure

    Gone – Smith, Barnes, Carlisle, Seymour

    Draft/Free Agency – OL/DB/MLB/RB

  • Just Fire Baby

    Hue needs to stay in the NFL. Going to college will effect his NFL career.

    ****************************

    It’s all about getting paid.

    Teams rarely hire 55 year old OC’s. He has a few year window to break the bank, and college HC jobs will pay way more than a standard OC gig.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    Trade 2 1st round picks for Mike Tomlin.

  • weaselbit

    Right now I turn on the game long enough to see if there’s been any change.

    If not, I just shut it off. Too painful to watch. Wrecked the whole season for me.

    Couple months I’ll watch a few playoff games. But I don’t really give a f— if the Raiders are out of it or not even remotely competitive. Right now they’re just a light Sunday workout for real NFL teams.

    Can’t even watch it. Makes me sick.

  • Charlie

    RaiderO

    There in lies our difference.I have followed the Raiders since 1963. I know the history better than most.

    I go back to the days of 11th round pick Marv Hubbard following first round pick Gene Upshaw.

    Or third rounder Van Eeghan following first rounder Henry Lawrence.

    Or Hewritt Dixon following another first round Olineman in Harry Schuh.

    Or watching 10th rounder Frank Hawkins follow first round pick Don Mosebar.

    You win on the line of scrimmage.
    That is how the great Raider teams were built.

    Perhaps that was all Ron Wolf.

    The fact of the matter is we are weak on both lines and it has much more to do with talent than coaching.

  • weaselbit

    I agree Charlie.
    I was a little kid standing behind that 4ft chain link fence on the sideline staring up at the likes of Ben w/ his handlebar and The Mad Bomber. stabler always talking to Blanda before he finally got his shot.

    Team hasn’t been Raider-like since the Howie Long days.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    It’s more difficult to get an NFL HC job when you are a 60 yo college HC than getting a college HC position at the same age when you have NFL experience at high level (HC or OC/DC).

  • Just Fire Baby

    I think the Bears might go to the Super Bowl with the worst O-line maybe in football.

    They certainly will make the playoffs with it.

    Can’t make the playoffs with the worst QB in football, or anything closely resembling it.

  • weaselbit

    I think Wiz left because they came in and took what was working and changed it to sh@t.

  • Priesttj12

    Well Charlie, The owner has spoken that none that nonesense is an excuse because he saw what a rookie coach was able to get out of this same team last year. Reggie comes in and sells him on the idea that the previous coach was not getting all he could get out of the talent available. So which is no talent or under-performing talent?

    You can’t have it both ways last years talent went 8-8 and Reggie said he upgraded that talent that went 8-8. So the owner in his mind is saying why if we upgraded the talent we’re worse off and regreessing with better talent?

    All you wannabe GM’s think you know but you don’t know who can play and who can’t. Reggie himself said this was a playoff roster when he took over so what the hell happened?

    The owner has said that he thinks this is a playoff roster in agreement with the GM and HC. Stop with the excuses everyone in here said our secondary was much better off with the new talent than last year and yet we’re getting smoked on a weekly basis……..someone simply isn’t getting it done and I have a mind to look at management……….period

  • Al_is_theraiders

    good observation charlie…i agree…problem is this staff has no idea what system they are running…do they draft power linemen? or do they draft bergstrom type? Zbs lineman are easy to get…i would rather have big powerful linemen blocking…

  • Just Fire Baby

    It’s more difficult to get an NFL HC job when you are a 60 yo college HC

    ************************

    60??? Hue’s 47, go to college, turn around a program as a HC for a few years, and he will probably get a HC job in the NFL afterwards.

    Keep floudering around in the NFL as a secondary assistant or whatever he is, and he will be clinging to the hopes that the buddy system continues to get him a job.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    You win on the line of scrimmage.
    That is how the great Raider teams were built.

    +++++++++++++++++

    “Holy Toledo, the Oakland line is just wiping out Minnesota’s front!”

  • No Mas Diamante

    Still not seeing how Reg is the problem. He was left a nightmare salary cap and a team with few stars and little depth. He came highly regarded by some impressive football people. DA hired Knapp I believe. Reg deserves another year. DA I’m not so sure.

  • Priesttj12

    You go back and look at the Oline last year, we got rid of some players that I thought could play. Brought in a G, T and a rookie and on all accts. thos players to a man has been a downgrade. That goes DIRECTLY to the GM’s moves…………….period

  • Al_is_theraiders

    not just smoked….toasted, buttered and delivered…

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    The fact of the matter is we are weak on both lines and it has much more to do with talent than coaching.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    We are weak on both lines, and that a fact. We disagree on the “why”, I blame the coaches, and you think it’s talent.
    What else is new?
    You people….
    Btw, I’m not saying we are talented, but I think the reason we regressed is coaching and not losing players like Routt and Wimbley.

  • Charlie

    Weasel

    I think too many younger fans are enamored with all the skill position hype, passing stats and big Head Coach reps that make the average fan they can work miracles.

    The basics of the game are blocking and tackling.
    Always have and always will.
    You also had to rush the passer.
    Many fans today think that Drew Brees and Tom Brady are top notch.

    They never saw Namath, Dawson and Griese get it done.
    They never saw the head slap form a Deacon Jones that is now illegal and how Olineman had to still pass protect.

    Bottom line is we are weak on both lines and that is where the game is won and lost. You build the lines first not last.

  • Raider-in-PA

    Charlie & Weaselbit:

    Just wondering if you remember watching my cousin MLB Dan Conners play back in the day? To me, those were the REAL Raiders… Ruthless, smack you in the mouth then laugh about it type players. Womanized and drank til sun up, then went out and kicked the sh!t out of teams for 60 minutes…

  • Al_is_theraiders

    charlie i agree with you 100%, i just dont know why reggie allowed da to mess with the oline system..
    exactly why reggie is lost…the guy does not lnow what he is doing. i have no idea how he got that talent eye rep….

  • Al_is_theraiders

    great reading some educated comments in here…i miss those real raiders…

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    Chico,

    Lol
    60 was the number that you used, but the idea is the same.
    It’s more difficult going colleg to NFL than NFL to college.
    So he is good enough to get a college HC position at a good program, but he is not good enough to be an OC or HC?
    He will get an OC job in the next few years. If he succeeds, he will be a HC in the NFL again.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Raider O Says:
    November 20th, 2012 at 10:00 am
    The fact of the matter is we are weak on both lines and it has much more to do with talent than coaching.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    We are weak on both lines, and that a fact. We disagree on the “why”, I blame the coaches, and you think it’s talent.

    ++++++++++++++++++++

    I think it’s both. If I had to pick a main cause, though, it’s talent.

    The starting line for the year was Houston, Kelly, Seymour, Shaughnessy

    Kelly & Seymour have clearly crossed that point that happens to many a D-lineman on the wrong side of 30. The wear and tear and grind add up. Suddenly, one season you’re pretty good and the very next you’re a liability. Not their fault, but there it is.

    Houston is a talented guy who I wish could be more consistent but his whole NFL career has been asked to play LDE when he’s a natural DT. Wish someone would fix this.

    Shaughnessy is a 4th round draft pick who’s flashed, but never more than that. Many, including myself, overrated him but it’s clear now that he slid to the mid-rounds for a reason.

    For depth:

    Desmond Bryant – a UDFA who’s flashed but like Shaughnessy is showing he’s ill-suited for starting duty. A perfectly good backup/spot starter but that’s all.

    Dave Tollefson – career backup

    Andre Carter – aging vet signed off the scrap heap for depth

    Christo Bilukidi – 6th round pick from Postage Stamp U who in no way is acclimated to the NFL yet. Very curious to see what he does next year with his feet under him.

    Jack Crawford – 5th round pick who got hurt in camp and has never been able to catch up.

    That’s a lot of former talent, middling talent and “maybes” on the defensive line…but not even one genuine superstar/top tier/gamechanging talent.

  • Charlie

    Raider O

    I compare us to real teams like the Ravens, Packers and Giants etc.) Teams that are physical like the Raiders used to be.

    When we play those teams we get killed at the line of scrimmage.

    No amount of coaching or QB excellence will get us a win.

    Last year down the stretch our defense was shredded.
    The game against the Packers was a classic case of getting killed on both lines.

    Shaugnessy, Kelly, Seymour(who can not even practice) are weak. What data do you have to say otherwise?
    They can not rush the passer and we get run on at will.

  • weaselbit

    Big lineman always works.

    It is f—ing terrible coaching.

    It’s the lack of team leadership and accountability as well.

    But it has to be frustrating when you’re in the huddle and you hear plays being called by Krapp that suck and all the players know it.

    No one’s trying that hard because what difference does it make? Then when a good play is called they’re already in the rut of futility.

    Players are going to want to go to where they can play this game they love and have a shot at winning. Otherwise, you’re risking your life and limb, just for a paycheck.

    This is how Belicheck does it.

    This is how the Raiders used to do it.

    Come to us. We win at any cost. Commitment to excellence.

    Starts at the top.

  • Raider-in-PA

    I agree that games are won/lost on the lines..

    No protection/blocking makes the best QBs and RBs look subpar…

    No pass rush or run stopping makes the secondary look subpar…

    I dont agree that our D line is weak… Not too many changes I would make other than losing Kelly and definitely Seymour..

    The O line however, could use 3 replacements…

  • Priesttj12

    People keep talking about a salary nightmare, well I never saw that stop Mr Davis form getting players to re-neg and get some cap space to do whatever he wanted.

    Everyone keeps pointing to the new CBA yet we pay Seymour 15 mill and the QB 11 mill. Those are decisions Reggie could’ve dealt with. Even if he had to move some money here and there that is his job.

    My point is not that we aren’t going to the SB or anything it’s the fact that he took a decent team and it’s regressed we’re setting record lows for performance stop making excuses about things that have zero to do with that fact………we should at least have 4-5 wins and NO ONE could complain. But we don’t we’re sitting here 3-7 on the way to 3-8 with what Reggie said was an upgraded roster……..that is the point.

  • Charlie

    Raider in PA

    Remember him well.
    #55.

    He also had good Dlineman in front of him. Solid front seven.