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Playing Bengals stokes ongoing debates about Palmer, Jackson

By Steve Corkran
Wednesday, November 21st, 2012 at 3:08 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Well, here we are. The week has arrived when people can dredge up whether the Raiders made the right decision in firing coach Hue Jackson and whether the trade Jackson engineered for quarterback Carson Palmer was worth it or not.
Oh, and Sunday’s game against the Cincicnnati Bengals just happens to be Palmer’s first game against the team that selected him No. 1 overall in the 2003 NFL draft.
Make no mistake, it’s going to be fans and media doing most of the talking in the run up to the game. Jackson isn’t talking, Lewis isn’t shedding much light on Palmer turning his back on the Bengals, and Palmer is taking the high road.
“I’m not going to dive back into that,” Palmer said. “To me, this is three seasons later, two seasons later. That was in the past. I’m here now. I don’t want to dive into that.”
Palmer forced the Bengals hand last season by saying he would retire rather than play for them again. The Bengals said that they wouldn’t trade Palmer.
Ultimately, the Raiders pried away Palmer from the Bengals last season for a 2012 first-round pick and a 2013 second-rounder just before the trade deadline, in response to starter Jason Campbell suffering a season-ending collarbone injury.
The trade set off an ongoing debate as to whether the Raiders got fleeced and if Palmer is a better option than Campbell.
It says here, the Raiders had no choice, and who cares if they overpaid. They weren’t going anywhere with Kyle Boller as the starter.
Sure enough, Palmer guided the Raiders within one game of winning the AFC West and their first playoff berth in nine seasons.
Lewis said it looks as if Palmer is having fun with the Raiders. Palmer said he didn’t have any fun during his final season with the Bengals.
Palmer said he and former teammates have talked about how things ended in Cincinnati, without elaborating.
“I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted,” Palmer said. “Anybody that’s ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it.”
Still, there remains a sizable faction bitter over the trade, with much of the venom directed at Jackson.
Lo and behold, Jackson ended up in Cincinnati, where is coaching the cornerbacks and helping out on special teams. One of his prized pupils is Bengals cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick, the players selected by the Bengals with the first-rounder they received from the Raiders as part of the Palmer trade.
“He’s been great,” Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said of Jackson in a conference call. “He’s been a great asset to me, having spent the year again as a coordinator and then as a head coach. He sees everything from a completely different perspective than other assistant coaches and position coaches do. His knowledge of offense has been incredible to go along with our defensive staff.”
On and on Lewis went in extolling the virtues of Jackson, who was fired by the Raiders shortly after last season ended.
“He’s a great technician as a coach and he sees the details and he sees the big picture,” Lewis said. “That’s why he’s so special as a coach. He can see both the detail work you have to have to be great but he can also see the entire big picture. He’s done that same thing in helping with and working with the special teams and our special teams coach as he coaches his segments. He envisions those plays as almost offensive plays and so forth. He comes with that enthusiasm and everything. It’s been great.”
For Jackson’s part, he steered clear of delving into much about the Palmer trade and being fired by the Raiders.
“It’s really another football game,” Jackson told Bengals writers. “For me, it is. it has to be. You can’t get caught up in the emotional part of it because that’s not what this is about. This is about winning and losing. There’s a team that’s really hungry, very talented. They have some big-time players that are going to try to come here and win a game. And we’re finding ourselves and we have to do everything we can to win a football game.”
Lewis said he thinks Jackson deserves another shot at being an NFL head coach. It remains to be seen whether Jackson will get that opportunity.
Already, Jackson’s name has been mentioned as a possibility for the Cal coaching vacancy. Jackson coached at Cal earlier in his career.
Palmer said he is “excited” about the prospect of playing in front of the fans that once cheered his every move from 2003-10.
“It’s a big game,” Palmer said. “But it’s obviously a much bigger game for our team. We have to get a win. We’re going to fight, we’re going to grind this week. We have a lot of room for improvement, a lot of areas we need to improve on. Obviously, going into Cincinnati, it’s a big game.”
For McKenzie and the Raiders too. You can bet that McKenzie and owner Mark Davis want a victory Sunday for more reasons than the fact the Raiders are in the midst of a three-game losing streak.
Asked if he has any regrets about forcing his way out of Cincinnati, Palmer said: “No regrets.”
Let the debates continue.

– Most players that were here for either or both of Jackson’s two seasons with the Raiders held him in high regard. Naturally, there were those that didn’t warm to Jackson, for one reason or another.
Running back Darren McFadden enjoyed his best seasons under Jackson’s play-calling. He remains appreciative for the time and effort Jackson took in finding a way to get the most from McFadden’s ability.
“I felt like he helped me a whole lot, just building my confidence in the league and he gave me the opportunity to show folks I can go out there and run the ball the way I do,” McFadden said.
McFadden rushed for a career-high 1,157 yards in 2010 and 614 in seven games last season. Both seasons, he averaged more than 5 yards per carry. He hasn’t averaged more than 4.4 yards in any of his three other NFL seasons, including a 3.3 mark this season.
Jackson made a point of talking about how he pulled aside McFadden in 2010 and asked him which plays he liked to run and then relied upon those plays in games.
“I just felt he tried to get the ball in the hands of his playmakers on offense,” McFadden said, “and I felt like that was something he did with us well, and that’s something he can do anywhere that he’s at.”
McFadden said he and Jackson have exchanged texts since Jackson was fired and that if a team is willing to give Jackson another shot at being a head coach in the NFL that “they’ll have a great head coach.”
Wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey is another player that flourished under Jackson’s tutelage.
Jackson said he and then-offensive coordinator Al Saunders determined the things that Heyward-Bey does best and concentrated on those things in games.
Heyward-Bey responded with career-highs in receptions (64), yards (975) and touchdowns (4) last season. Heyward-Bey has 28 catches for 440 yards and three touchdowns so far this season.
“He just saw the work I put in,” Heyward-Bey said. “He believed in me. He was the type of coach that, he will call plays because he wanted to see if you were going to make a play. He did that the years he was here.”
Heyward-Bey said he also enjoyed Jackson’s gutsy play-calling.
Middle linebacker Rolando McClain said he enjoyed the energy and passion that Jackson brought to the team. He certainly didn’t expect the Raiders to fire Jackson after an 8-8 season.
“I guess you never know what’s going to happen, especially not with this team,” McClain said. “I guess you never know what will happen. That’s just the business that we’re in. It caught me by surprise. I didn’t expect it.”

– No emotional send-offs for veteran linebacker Aaron Curry. At least not from coach Allen.
When asked whether Curry’s departure owed to Curry’s knee injuries or an inability to make the defense better, Allen wasted little time responding.
“We just didn’t feel like he was a fit for us moving forward,” Allen said, without elaborating.
Guess there really isn’t a need when the answer is that succinct.

– Wide receiver Denarius Moore and Palmer at times in recent games looked as if they were playing together for the first time.
Only one of seven passes directed for Moore against the Saints found the mark. Against the Buccaneers, a late pass by Palmer ended up in the arms of a Bucs defensive back, with Moore breaking toward the middle of the field, away from the ball.
Allen said everyone has a share of blame for Palmer and Moore not being on the same page as often as desired.
“It’s all of our responsibility,” Allen said. “First of all, all of us need to look internally at what we need to do better to make this thing work. And then, collectively, as a group, how can we work to make this better?”
Part of the issue also stems from Moore being a second-year player, still acclimating to the NFL and learning a new offense for the second straight season.
“Yeah, and that’s what happens when you have young players,” Allen said. “There’s a growing process, and Denarius is still continuing to grow and he’s going to continue to get better, but it’s part of the process.”
Palmer said he bears the brunt of the responsibility.
“I need to look at the film and see what happens and we need to sit down and talk about it,” Palmer said after the Saints game. “He’s our go-to guy. He’s our No. 1 receiver, he’s got a lot of plays for him and we haven’t had a ton of time on task and that’s why some of the miscommunication things come up.
“The guy had a bad hamstring injury all offseason, all training camp, there’s times it shows and it’s my fault. He’s a second-year guy, we need to do a better job getting on the same page with him, seeing things the way he sees ‘em and I need to improve in that aspect.”

– Allen said it’s possible that the vacancy on the 53-man roster created by waiving Curry on Tuesday will be filled by signing a player from the practice squad.

– Allen still isn’t sure when McFadden, Mike Goodson or Richard Seymour will be able to get back on the field. All he can do for now is remain hopeful. None of the three practiced Wednesday.
“Well, I don’t know when they’ll be back,” Allen said. “Hopefully they all will be back soon. All I can tell you is they are all rehabbing. Tyvon was out here practicing today. They’re going to rehab as fast as they can and when they’re healthy they’ll be back out here.”

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  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    504!!!! Please rattle off your Thanksgiving menu down in New Orleans so I can dream once again!

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    DMC isnt a football player, and wont see the field again this year,..simply because he doesnt like playing football.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    RaiderRetribution Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 9:44 am

    Future points to ponder:

    1) Reece has another 100 yds/90 yds rec/run combo Sunday does he become Raiders’ #1 RB?
    =====================================

    No, but what that does mean is we can probably get a decent back in there that can be productive which will open up other parts of the offense. It’s just not McFadden who is capable of doing it.

  • GreatWhiteRaider

    The new regime could have had the best of both worlds; they could have fired Hue but kept the offense in tact via Al Saunders. They blew that big time and it’s lead to way bigger problems for them now.

    I don’t have anything against the ZBS and “west coast” systems, but when you ALREADY have a competent offense, why would you bring back someone who has already failed here to install a scheme that doesn’t suit your best players? I don’t get it.

    I mean don’t know if the lysfranc is something a player never comes back from? Or if McFadden pouts/quits or whatever? But I’ll say this. I’d rather see this for 10-12 games/yr

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOOwsmgQg1M

    Versus watching him run into his blockers for no gain.

    I think in the year end press conference or sooner, I’d like to hear Reggir or DA speak to that.

    BTW – love the Chucky clips, thanks for posting.

  • RaiderRetribution

    Seymour, I think you’re correct; although I do hope Reggie gives Reece another extension.

    I expect us to draft an RB in the 4th round.

    Reggie must draft either To’e or pass rushing DE with our first draft pick.

  • RaiderRetribution

    Psst … Pittsburgh won two super bowls, because we drafted Gallery instead of Rothlesburger.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    RaiderRetribution Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 10:49 am

    I expect us to draft an RB in the 4th round.

    Reggie must draft either To’e or pass rushing DE with our first draft pick.
    =========================================

    Good call. I REALLY want to see a pass rusher with our first overall pick.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    JONGRUDEN2013 Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 10:39 am

    DMC isnt a football player, and wont see the field again this year,..simply because he doesnt like playing football.
    ==========================================

    Dmac seems to like the lifestyle, the paycheck, the big house, the baby momma’s, lots of expensive cars, in fact he likes EVERYTHING but the game.

  • RaiderRetribution

    Davis and Reggie hire Gruden, they could raise ticket prices and still sellout.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    Now that the Niners cut bait with Alex Smith, I think getting him along with Jon Gruden,..awesome idea. By the way all my ideas are awesome.

  • http://www.insidebayarea.com/raiders Silverandblack666

    “The new regime could have had the best of both worlds; they could have fired Hue but kept the offense in tact via Al Saunders. They blew that big time and it’s lead to way bigger problems for them now.”

    This was my first negative reaction to the new regime….this was the first warning signal that we were in for a long season or a rebuild.

    Thee new regime should have immediately realized that the strength on this team was the O-Line and the running game….find a way to keep that in tact and build around that.

    That led to letting Satele go and thinking that Wiz could easily replace him at center and the line would be the same.

    Then they brought in Bergstrom and paid him a ton of cash to be the stinker of the year thus far! This guy was “SUPPOSED” to be good!

    Then the last thing that happened surprised us all was that Barnes was a decent RT with him gone we are now seeing that.

    All of those things combined dismantled our strength over the last few years (running game) and what brought us to 8-8…. bringing us to where we are today which is 3-7.

    RM and DA I hope you learned something from this because you are upsetting some long time fans with this regression.

  • 504 Raider

    Here you go Seymour:

    Three Turkeys (Oven Roasted, Fried and Smoked)
    Corn and Crab bisque
    Crawfish Etouffe
    Spinach & Artichoke cassarole
    Honey Baked Ham

    Deserts
    ooh wee gooey cake
    Sweet Potato Pies
    Petit Fours
    Cheesecake

    We have 7 more guests coming over and don’t know what they are bringing but they won’t be coming empty handed.

    Happy Thanksgiving!!!

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    Raiderretibution,..Iv already renewed for next year,…got a sideline pass for KC game out of it…they can go 0-16 for the next 5 years and I still wouldnt consider missing a game,..neither does brien, thec, hawaiin dude,…we are the fabric,..most of you only support when things are going well,…just more truth from me, that nobody here likes to hear.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    666,…did Hue and his team win a playoff invite?…no,..did they control their own destiny during that charger game at home?…yes,…was Hue fired because of that?…yes,…the Bengals have regressed since Hue got on their payroll,…I have spoken.

  • 504 Raider

    How is Manti Teo? He looks undersized. I know he made plays but Wake Forest is not on our schedule next year.

  • Charlie

    Raider o

    Happy Thanksgiving as well.

    My concern is that we have tried for the last ten years to build this team with free gaents and later round picks on the lines. We have used high draft picks largely on prolific skill guys and DB’s.

    Mr Davis could not acknowledge his draft misses so he kept changing schemes and coaches. Disastrous to say the least.

    Here we are with ten straight years of missing the playoffs.

    What I am saying is that football is a game of time and space.
    Olines create it.
    Dlines destroy it.

    EVERYTHING ELSE IS BASED OFF THAT PRINCIPLE.
    YOU ARE RIGHT. IT IS NOT COMPLICATED.

    Without superior line play it is impossible to effectively evaluate the rest of your team.

    I would love to think we could rebuild our lines quickly but the law of averages and development say it will take at least two more years.

    If we can rebuild our lines with 7th round picks. Great.

    The law of averages says we will need to invest most of our high draft picks on in the box talent before we do much else.
    We are too far gone in that area to even compete.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    504 Raider Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:03 am

    Here you go Seymour:

    Three Turkeys (Oven Roasted, Fried and Smoked)
    Corn and Crab bisque
    Crawfish Etouffe
    Spinach & Artichoke cassarole
    Honey Baked Ham

    Deserts
    ooh wee gooey cake
    Sweet Potato Pies
    Petit Fours
    Cheesecake

    We have 7 more guests coming over and don’t know what they are bringing but they won’t be coming empty handed.

    Happy Thanksgiving!!!
    ========================================

    Oh man, this sounds sooooo good! Thanks 504, Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, and Happy Thanksgiving to all of you in the Nation.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    corn and crab bisque, crawfish etouffe, oooh man….

  • http://www.safc.com/the-club/stadium/about-the-stadium-of-light neilb

    Anyone else here happy we didn’t draft Calvin Johnson?What a loser.What a slacker.I don’t know why the Lions keep him around.Absolute rubbish – what a waste of a pick.

  • http://www.safc.com/the-club/stadium/about-the-stadium-of-light neilb

    Not much of a Kid Rock fan….

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    neilb Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Anyone else here happy we didn’t draft Calvin Johnson?
    ====================================

    Hey you can’t win ‘em all. We could have been stuck with Joe Thomas, Adrian Peterson or Darrell Revis in that draft. I mean Jamarcus is going to make a comeback, come into camp in shape and be ready any day now right?

  • JB

    504 Raider Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:07 am

    How is Manti Teo? He looks undersized. I know he made plays but Wake Forest is not on our schedule next year.
    *********************

    Undersized where? 6’2″ gives him the leverage advantage o rushing the passer & 255# is a perfect size for a MLB. Where’s the problem. This kid is the real deal – the defensive leader that McCheese isn’t.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    I really thought Kid Rock blew, but that was REALLY bad. The only thing worse than that is lil biachi.

  • JB

    Great menu 504. That sounds like some of my favorite NOLA type items.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    JB Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:21 am

    504 Raider Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:07 am

    How is Manti Teo? He looks undersized. I know he made plays but Wake Forest is not on our schedule next year.
    *********************

    Undersized where? 6′2″ gives him the leverage advantage o rushing the passer & 255# is a perfect size for a MLB. Where’s the problem. This kid is the real deal – the defensive leader that McCheese isn’t.
    ==================================

    255 is a little BIG for a MLB in an even scheme. (See McLame, So-longo) Normally you want smaller quicker MLB’s behind an even front ala Jon Vilma who just ripped us a new one last Sunday.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    JB Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Great menu 504. That sounds like some of my favorite NOLA type items.
    ====================================

    Doesn’t it? Smoked Turkey and oven roasted, AND fried, Ham, cheesecake, sweet potato pies, man I never get tired of reading his Thanksgiving menu. I have to live vicariously some way…..

  • Charlie

    I think you guys will be seeing quite a few olineman and dlineman from Alabama, Notre Dame and Ohio State in our next couple of drafts.

    It all starts at the line of scrimmage.

    McClain nad Dmac had college success behind dominant lines.
    How have they looked with us?

  • JB

    Manti Te’o highlights comments by Mike Mayock:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWxIUeZKPmc

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    I hope in January when Gruden gets here he gets Alex Smith out of SF now that hes lost his job…Gruden and Alex would be better then Gruden and Gannon. Youre welcome.

  • JB
  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    The question is could we be going toward an odd front and pair McLame with Teo inside? Get a nose later in the draft and try to get some more linemen on both sides.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    That Notre Dame dude wont be available in the 3rd round…and after trading down thats when we will pick first. Once again Iv just educated you.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    Bush,…McLain is released the night of the Charger loss.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    What the heck happened to the Texan’s defense?

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    Cushing.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    JONGRUDEN2013 Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:39 am
    Cushing.

    They were still playing pretty well after he was injured.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    No they werent.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    The Texans played a terrible game against the Packers after the Cushing injury. Then they gave up 13 pts, 9 pts, and 13 pts before last week’s game against the Jags.

  • GreatWhiteRaider

    The Draft is the ultimate for revisionist history. I personally can’t stop laughing when they do the “Who Won On Draft Day” pieces in the media the day after. Please….

    You can’t really judge a draft for 2-3 years. But I know, the Draft is an event now so you have to make people interested in it.

    I remember reading how the Raiders/Al were congratulated for doing something “normal”/common sense in drafting Gallery and Grove in the first 2 rounds. Did those guys have big impact on the organization? No. Are they still here? No. So there you go.

    Having good drafts and making good use of your picks is essential to building a long-term, consistent contender/winner. I’m hoping BIG TIME Reggie is the guy to make that happen.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    The Lions just got jobbed.

  • JONGRUDEN2013

    No shock, Walt Coleman in charge.

  • morilla

    WTF was that?!!!!!!’

    Aren’t ALL scoring plays reviewed? That’s jack.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    Happy OAKLAND RAIDERS Day to one and all.

    2012 OAK RAIDS – The biggest Turkeys in the NFL.

    Let’s give THANKS we don’t have to watch them get CARVED up today. Sure way to ruin your holiday dining and get indigestion.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    JONGRUDEN2013 Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Bush,…McLain is released the night of the Charger loss.
    ===================================

    One can only hope…..

  • morilla

    I hate Houston. I really do. Boring as sh:t. I think that team is a paper tiger.

    Oh wait. We are try to be Houston West.

  • morilla

    I hate Houston. I really do. Boring as sh:t. I think that team is a paper tiger.

    Oh wait. We are trying to be Houston West.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    Morilla Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:52 am
    WTF was that?!!!!!!’

    Aren’t ALL scoring plays reviewed? That’s jack.
    ——
    Schwartz effed up the review by throwing the challenge flag.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    Holy Krapp. One of the worst calls ever. Also a ridiculous rule that play can’t be reviewed bcz Schwartz challenged.

  • morilla

    Albert Bigelow Paine Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:55 am
    Morilla Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 11:52 am
    WTF was that?!!!!!!’

    Aren’t ALL scoring plays reviewed? That’s jack.
    ——
    Schwartz effed up the review by throwing the challenge flag.
    ———–

    That’s a bush rule. Should be still reviewable. Just tack on the 15 yarder.

    I have a feeling Suh is going to rip someone’s head off. Literally.

  • VanHeathen30

    Walt Coleman STRIKES AGAIN!
    This guys crew is the dirty.
    perfect guy to get hooked, does not look the part, been keeping ‘em close for years…
    Too bad WE KNOW EXACTLY how Lions Fan feels right now…