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Playing Bengals stokes ongoing debates about Palmer, Jackson

Well, here we are. The week has arrived when people can dredge up whether the Raiders made the right decision in firing coach Hue Jackson and whether the trade Jackson engineered for quarterback Carson Palmer was worth it or not.
Oh, and Sunday’s game against the Cincicnnati Bengals just happens to be Palmer’s first game against the team that selected him No. 1 overall in the 2003 NFL draft.
Make no mistake, it’s going to be fans and media doing most of the talking in the run up to the game. Jackson isn’t talking, Lewis isn’t shedding much light on Palmer turning his back on the Bengals, and Palmer is taking the high road.
“I’m not going to dive back into that,” Palmer said. “To me, this is three seasons later, two seasons later. That was in the past. I’m here now. I don’t want to dive into that.”
Palmer forced the Bengals hand last season by saying he would retire rather than play for them again. The Bengals said that they wouldn’t trade Palmer.
Ultimately, the Raiders pried away Palmer from the Bengals last season for a 2012 first-round pick and a 2013 second-rounder just before the trade deadline, in response to starter Jason Campbell suffering a season-ending collarbone injury.
The trade set off an ongoing debate as to whether the Raiders got fleeced and if Palmer is a better option than Campbell.
It says here, the Raiders had no choice, and who cares if they overpaid. They weren’t going anywhere with Kyle Boller as the starter.
Sure enough, Palmer guided the Raiders within one game of winning the AFC West and their first playoff berth in nine seasons.
Lewis said it looks as if Palmer is having fun with the Raiders. Palmer said he didn’t have any fun during his final season with the Bengals.
Palmer said he and former teammates have talked about how things ended in Cincinnati, without elaborating.
“I have seen guys, run into guys back in San Diego, talked, texted,” Palmer said. “Anybody that’s ever played for that ownership knows what I was doing and why I was doing it.”
Still, there remains a sizable faction bitter over the trade, with much of the venom directed at Jackson.
Lo and behold, Jackson ended up in Cincinnati, where is coaching the cornerbacks and helping out on special teams. One of his prized pupils is Bengals cornerback Dre Kirkpatrick, the players selected by the Bengals with the first-rounder they received from the Raiders as part of the Palmer trade.
“He’s been great,” Bengals coach Marvin Lewis said of Jackson in a conference call. “He’s been a great asset to me, having spent the year again as a coordinator and then as a head coach. He sees everything from a completely different perspective than other assistant coaches and position coaches do. His knowledge of offense has been incredible to go along with our defensive staff.”
On and on Lewis went in extolling the virtues of Jackson, who was fired by the Raiders shortly after last season ended.
“He’s a great technician as a coach and he sees the details and he sees the big picture,” Lewis said. “That’s why he’s so special as a coach. He can see both the detail work you have to have to be great but he can also see the entire big picture. He’s done that same thing in helping with and working with the special teams and our special teams coach as he coaches his segments. He envisions those plays as almost offensive plays and so forth. He comes with that enthusiasm and everything. It’s been great.”
For Jackson’s part, he steered clear of delving into much about the Palmer trade and being fired by the Raiders.
“It’s really another football game,” Jackson told Bengals writers. “For me, it is. it has to be. You can’t get caught up in the emotional part of it because that’s not what this is about. This is about winning and losing. There’s a team that’s really hungry, very talented. They have some big-time players that are going to try to come here and win a game. And we’re finding ourselves and we have to do everything we can to win a football game.”
Lewis said he thinks Jackson deserves another shot at being an NFL head coach. It remains to be seen whether Jackson will get that opportunity.
Already, Jackson’s name has been mentioned as a possibility for the Cal coaching vacancy. Jackson coached at Cal earlier in his career.
Palmer said he is “excited” about the prospect of playing in front of the fans that once cheered his every move from 2003-10.
“It’s a big game,” Palmer said. “But it’s obviously a much bigger game for our team. We have to get a win. We’re going to fight, we’re going to grind this week. We have a lot of room for improvement, a lot of areas we need to improve on. Obviously, going into Cincinnati, it’s a big game.”
For McKenzie and the Raiders too. You can bet that McKenzie and owner Mark Davis want a victory Sunday for more reasons than the fact the Raiders are in the midst of a three-game losing streak.
Asked if he has any regrets about forcing his way out of Cincinnati, Palmer said: “No regrets.”
Let the debates continue.

– Most players that were here for either or both of Jackson’s two seasons with the Raiders held him in high regard. Naturally, there were those that didn’t warm to Jackson, for one reason or another.
Running back Darren McFadden enjoyed his best seasons under Jackson’s play-calling. He remains appreciative for the time and effort Jackson took in finding a way to get the most from McFadden’s ability.
“I felt like he helped me a whole lot, just building my confidence in the league and he gave me the opportunity to show folks I can go out there and run the ball the way I do,” McFadden said.
McFadden rushed for a career-high 1,157 yards in 2010 and 614 in seven games last season. Both seasons, he averaged more than 5 yards per carry. He hasn’t averaged more than 4.4 yards in any of his three other NFL seasons, including a 3.3 mark this season.
Jackson made a point of talking about how he pulled aside McFadden in 2010 and asked him which plays he liked to run and then relied upon those plays in games.
“I just felt he tried to get the ball in the hands of his playmakers on offense,” McFadden said, “and I felt like that was something he did with us well, and that’s something he can do anywhere that he’s at.”
McFadden said he and Jackson have exchanged texts since Jackson was fired and that if a team is willing to give Jackson another shot at being a head coach in the NFL that “they’ll have a great head coach.”
Wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey is another player that flourished under Jackson’s tutelage.
Jackson said he and then-offensive coordinator Al Saunders determined the things that Heyward-Bey does best and concentrated on those things in games.
Heyward-Bey responded with career-highs in receptions (64), yards (975) and touchdowns (4) last season. Heyward-Bey has 28 catches for 440 yards and three touchdowns so far this season.
“He just saw the work I put in,” Heyward-Bey said. “He believed in me. He was the type of coach that, he will call plays because he wanted to see if you were going to make a play. He did that the years he was here.”
Heyward-Bey said he also enjoyed Jackson’s gutsy play-calling.
Middle linebacker Rolando McClain said he enjoyed the energy and passion that Jackson brought to the team. He certainly didn’t expect the Raiders to fire Jackson after an 8-8 season.
“I guess you never know what’s going to happen, especially not with this team,” McClain said. “I guess you never know what will happen. That’s just the business that we’re in. It caught me by surprise. I didn’t expect it.”

– No emotional send-offs for veteran linebacker Aaron Curry. At least not from coach Allen.
When asked whether Curry’s departure owed to Curry’s knee injuries or an inability to make the defense better, Allen wasted little time responding.
“We just didn’t feel like he was a fit for us moving forward,” Allen said, without elaborating.
Guess there really isn’t a need when the answer is that succinct.

– Wide receiver Denarius Moore and Palmer at times in recent games looked as if they were playing together for the first time.
Only one of seven passes directed for Moore against the Saints found the mark. Against the Buccaneers, a late pass by Palmer ended up in the arms of a Bucs defensive back, with Moore breaking toward the middle of the field, away from the ball.
Allen said everyone has a share of blame for Palmer and Moore not being on the same page as often as desired.
“It’s all of our responsibility,” Allen said. “First of all, all of us need to look internally at what we need to do better to make this thing work. And then, collectively, as a group, how can we work to make this better?”
Part of the issue also stems from Moore being a second-year player, still acclimating to the NFL and learning a new offense for the second straight season.
“Yeah, and that’s what happens when you have young players,” Allen said. “There’s a growing process, and Denarius is still continuing to grow and he’s going to continue to get better, but it’s part of the process.”
Palmer said he bears the brunt of the responsibility.
“I need to look at the film and see what happens and we need to sit down and talk about it,” Palmer said after the Saints game. “He’s our go-to guy. He’s our No. 1 receiver, he’s got a lot of plays for him and we haven’t had a ton of time on task and that’s why some of the miscommunication things come up.
“The guy had a bad hamstring injury all offseason, all training camp, there’s times it shows and it’s my fault. He’s a second-year guy, we need to do a better job getting on the same page with him, seeing things the way he sees ‘em and I need to improve in that aspect.”

– Allen said it’s possible that the vacancy on the 53-man roster created by waiving Curry on Tuesday will be filled by signing a player from the practice squad.

– Allen still isn’t sure when McFadden, Mike Goodson or Richard Seymour will be able to get back on the field. All he can do for now is remain hopeful. None of the three practiced Wednesday.
“Well, I don’t know when they’ll be back,” Allen said. “Hopefully they all will be back soon. All I can tell you is they are all rehabbing. Tyvon was out here practicing today. They’re going to rehab as fast as they can and when they’re healthy they’ll be back out here.”

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Steve Corkran

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    This games is has the look of a classic Lion’s meltdown.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    He started out as Dennis Allen.

    Then he became DA.

    Soon he was known as Tits.

    He will be remembered as an UDDER FAILURE.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    Got to give Allen credit for his use of the challenge flag, though.

  • morilla

    RAIDERMAN99 Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:02 pm
    He started out as Dennis Allen.

    Then he became DA.

    Soon he was known as Tits.

    He will be remembered as an UDDER FAILURE.
    ———–

    Can’t say that now.

    In three years if nothing’s changed, then fine.

  • 504 Raider

    Maybe its just the way Teo looks on TV that makes him look small to me. Maybe the big arms he has makes them look short. If he’s 6’2” and 255 then that’s real good size for MLB.

    But DA like guys who “loves the game” and Teo sure looks like he loves football.

  • 504 Raider

    Teo kinda reminds me of Dat Nguyen from Texas A&M who went to Dallas.

  • ENGLANDRAIDER

    That was one dumb move by HC Schwartz.

  • RaiderRockstar

    Philip Wheeler and Taiwan Jones are practicing today despite suffering injuries against the Saints.

    Tyvon Branch & Defensive line coach Terrell Williams are back too.

    ***

    great news!

    Oakland 27
    Cincy 10

  • Priesttj12

    You guys are sleeping on Rolando IMO has been far away our best LB in the last two games since they dropped those charges. You have to look at where a player is now. You all have your opinions formed as to who this kid can be.

    Sure he has been a huge disappointment prior to the Balt. game. No argument there but as I said earlier this year the first game of the year was really what kind of player Ro is. This last game Rolando shocked me how effective he was now if that is who he is. To discard this kid based on his past would be a huge mistake. You can’t make emotional decisions because you don’t like someone. We’ve gone thro the rough spots with this kid now lets see how he plays the rest of the year. That will tell all.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    The Texans are trying to be like the Raiders now.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    504 Raider Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    Teo kinda reminds me of Dat Nguyen from Texas A&M who went to Dallas.
    ===================================

    A&M seems to be able to churn out, good, disciplined, solid, well coached players who love the game. And they have done that for decades. They obviously have a very good program in place and their coaching staffs are solid, which is one major reason I am not giving up on Dennis Allen just yet.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    Priest, your love for Al Davis wouldn’t have something do with your McClain support, would it? I haven’t been watching McClain closely, but I sure don’t see him making many plays.

  • Priesttj12

    Basically what happens in here all too often is a player will tagged a certain kind of player and it sticks in here no matter what the present film is saying he is now. It’s too much of a herd mentality.

    If I say what soand so said I’ll sound smart, well no you wont. You’ll sound like everybody else, but that may or may not necessarily be SMART. Let the film speak for itself……instead of popular opinion.

  • RaiderRockstar

    #55 sucks, TJ

  • Raiders for life

    If you get some time Youtube Robbie Rouse, RB Fresno St.
    I’m sure Kelly Skipper has been keeping an eye on him.

    Not sure what round he’ll go. He’s a bit smallish at 5′-7″ 190. Good hands, good speed, not injury prone. 3 consecutive years running over 1,000 yds.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    Priesttj12 Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:20 pm
    Basically what happens in here all too often is a player will tagged a certain kind of player and it sticks in here no matter what the present film is saying he is now. It’s too much of a herd mentality.

    If I say what soand so said I’ll sound smart, well no you wont. You’ll sound like everybody else, but that may or may not necessarily be SMART. Let the film speak for itself……instead of popular opinion.
    ——-
    Kind of like your support for Al Davis. His record as a GM over the last 25 years speaks for itself.

  • Priesttj12

    we had a poster in here last night who wants to get rid of every draft pick Mr Davis made on this team. No matter how good that player is or isn’t. And that is just flat out emotional reaction to someone unpopular on this board. Now what does that really amount to……total chaos no thought envolved at all.

    That easy to do is to mindlessly go with the crowd. There are some dman good players MR Davis put on this team whether you hate or love him that is fact. But people are so caught up in hwo drafted the guy rather than whether he can play or not………talk about ‘matter over mind’ . That is for women and their makeup doesn’t apply here.

  • http://InsidetheOaklandRaiders Goldie7

    I wish our Raiders could be good again! Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Enjoy with family. Sup RR? Later.

  • RaiderRockstar

    Happy Thanksgiving!!

  • MiamiRaider78

    55 needs to get a good look in the 3-4 before he is cut. If anything, restructure his contract and keep him for depth…because if he sucks that bad, he will not start anywhere else around the league. Also, hire Romanowski as a lb coach, and watch our LB’s turn into a bunch of tackling maniacs. lol

  • RAIDERMAN99

    Can’t say that now.

    In three years if nothing’s changed, then fine.
    ==========================================
    3 years, huh ?

    Don’t make me cringe.

    Doesn’t take 3 years to know you made a mistake.

    At least it shouldn’t.

    EVERY single facet of play has regressed under the UDDER FAILURE’S ‘leadership’.

    Offense, Defense, Special Teams.

    It’s not just a partial regression. Get it ?

    It’s complete and UDDER FAILURE. Across the board.

    From assembling a staff, to getting the most out of the roster, to being a lifeless, smiling tittyboy loser -

    TITS IS AN UDDER FAILURE.

    You want more UDDER FAILURE ? Then bring Tits and crew back in 2013.

    UDDER FAILURE 2013 – Sure recipe for continued disaster.

  • RaiderRockstar

    throw it to Owen Daniels, my fantasy TE !!

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    #55 sucks, TJ
    =================================
    He is bloody fooking awful. As a backup to play 10 plays a game, he might be OK. But for an 8 overall, at his salary? Fire up the waiver wire…..

  • RaiderRockstar

    Miami,

    Johnny Holland is not the problem. Replacing him as LB Coach does nothing to fix the defense.

    if it’s a coaching issue, point your finger at Allen & Tarver

    if it’s a personnel issue, point your finger at Reggie

    Mark Davis expected to win the AFC West (THIS YEAR!) and right now we’re headed toward 3rd or 4th place

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    EVERY single facet of play has regressed under the UDDER FAILURE’S ‘leadership’.

    Offense, Defense, Special Teams.
    =========================================

    Was it Dennis Allen’s fault the ball went RIGHT THROUGH Myers paws in the end zone to a defender? That obviously was the right play call. Was it Allen’s fault that Mitchell just in explicitly let his assignment run past him to the endzone with 45 seconds to go in the half? Was it Allens fault that his kickoff unit cannot stay in their lanes and tackle to start the second half, and then let the Saint RB go 27 yards UNTOUCHED to basically ice the game?

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    Any predictions on who will be the last Al Davis draft pick to remain on the Raiders?

  • morilla

    Seymour Bush Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:29 pm
    RaiderRockstar Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    #55 sucks, TJ
    =================================
    He is bloody fooking awful. As a backup to play 10 plays a game, he might be OK. But for an 8 overall, at his salary? Fire up the waiver wire…..
    ——

    Yup.

  • RaiderRockstar

    the Lions might actually win a game on turkey day!

    how often has that happened over the past 20 years?

  • morilla

    Albert Bigelow Paine Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:33 pm
    Any predictions on who will be the last Al Davis draft pick to remain on the Raiders?
    —-

    SeaBass.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Johnny Holland is not the problem. Replacing him as LB Coach does nothing to fix the defense.

    if it’s a coaching issue, point your finger at Allen & Tarver
    ==========================================

    Holland has done a solid job. You do question Tarver tho. Why is he blitzing guys from 15 yards in the defensive backfield? They have NO HOPE of getting to the Q who just waits, dumps it over them, and now you have an 11 on 9, or in other words an easy big play. And then Tarver does it again. Absolutely mind boggling…..

  • Priesttj12

    ABJ then let it speak for itself, I’ve never been in favor of losing. I supported Mr Davis as far as his ability to get talent not his treatment of coaches I’ve always spoke out against his firing coaches too soon. Which forced out a lot of talented players HE drafted. Mr Davis’ record is what it is don’t hate players because HE picked them. That is just flat out dumb hate him all you want the players are judged based on whether they perform or not.
    Just because I supported him doesn’t mean I agreed with every decision he made because many he made I disagreed with like DHB and DMC and many more but once they became Raiders I had to support them. hated Stu still wouldn’t have drafted Huff but he did. Doesn’t mean I agree I just loved what he did in the past what he lately who could love that???

  • RAIDERMAN99

    55 = Slowlando McLazy = the no go slow boat.

    Scrub.

    Another loser that’s got to go.

  • RaiderRockstar

    Any predictions on who will be the last Al Davis draft pick to remain on the Raiders?

    ***

    Stefen Wisniewski or Denarius Moore

  • morilla

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:36 pm
    Any predictions on who will be the last Al Davis draft pick to remain on the Raiders?

    ***

    Stefen Wisniewski or Denarius Moore

    ——
    Good call, I wasn’t thinking recent.

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    I predict Veldheer.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    You guys its not that hard. Watch the end of this Lions Texans game. Guys are making plays. Guys are running hard. Look at Andre Johnson making plays. Look at Arian Foster cutting back and going on a nice run. Look at Avril and Suh busting in there and effing the Texan play up. Guys are making plays on both sides of the ball. Our guys don’t do that.

  • MiamiRaider78

    I just would like to see someone assist with molding one of our LB’ers into a vocal leader. Maybe give Romanowski a role on our staff like Wiz sr had? Just a thought.

    RR,

    Heat is looking mean, while my Lakers are going backwards.

  • Priesttj12

    Priest, your love for Al Davis wouldn’t have something do with your McClain support, would it? I haven’t been watching McClain closely, but I sure don’t see him making many plays.
    *******************************************
    Your hatred for him wouldn’t ahve anything to do with Al Davis would it?

    Watch the film Moron…….then make your own judgment if you’re capable.

  • morilla

    I see all three of those guys sticking around for awhile. Maybe Bryant too.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    they dont do that because of da…

  • morilla

    When you watch tape on McClain it’s nothing out of this world. Hardly. I have 2 years worth of games on my DVR. Wanna come over?

  • http://raiders.com Albert Bigelow Paine

    Priesttj12 Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:42 pm
    Priest, your love for Al Davis wouldn’t have something do with your McClain support, would it? I haven’t been watching McClain closely, but I sure don’t see him making many plays.
    *******************************************
    Your hatred for him wouldn’t ahve anything to do with Al Davis would it?

    Watch the film Moron…….then make your own judgment if you’re capable.
    ——
    I don’t hate McClain. He doesn’t make plays at all.

  • RaiderRockstar

    IR’d Shawntae Spencer & Travis Goethel wont be back.

    Seymour & Carter wont be back.

    Kelly & Tollefson have a shot to return, but it’s certainly not a given at this point …

    Bartell, Hanson, Giordano & Mitchell are gone.

    Adams, Francies & Ross aren’t even worth talking about. Same with LB’s Clayton & Gaither

    Huff & Branch have a shot to return, but it’s certainly not a given at this point …

    #55 sucks , but we don’t know yet whether he’s on scholarship. He certainly hasn’t earned the starting job he’s been given and we don’t have anybody to replace him

    2013 Raider defense could look MUCH different, with or without DA & mad scientist imo

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:44 pm

    they dont do that because of da…
    =======================================

    Don’t be ridiculous. They haven’t done it every year for 10 years before Allen got here.

  • RaiderRockstar

    A Foster fantasy owners win again!!

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    November 22nd, 2012 at 12:47 pm

    IR’d Shawntae Spencer & Travis Goethel wont be back.

    Seymour & Carter wont be back.

    Kelly & Tollefson have a shot to return, but it’s certainly not a given at this point …

    Bartell, Hanson, Giordano & Mitchell are gone.

    Adams, Francies & Ross aren’t even worth talking about. Same with LB’s Clayton & Gaither

    Huff & Branch have a shot to return, but it’s certainly not a given at this point …

    #55 sucks , but we don’t know yet whether he’s on scholarship. He certainly hasn’t earned the starting job he’s been given and we don’t have anybody to replace him

    2013 Raider defense could look MUCH different, with or without DA & mad scientist imo
    ======================================

    Spencer will most likely be back, Goethel no. Seymour yes, Carter, Kelly and Tollefson, no. Bartell, Hason, Giordano yes, Mitchell no. Huff and Branch yes, McClain no.

  • Priesttj12

    Then you should STOP watching football ……….period

    Because you have no clue what the hell you’re looking at all your opinions are formed by others…..period

    Which is basically the makeup of this entire board a bunch parrots repeating each other.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    There was a time when COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE meant something.

    It wasn’t just a cliche, it was a way of life around here.

    Oh, how the great Al Davis faded and erred in his latter years. Lamentable. Tragic.

    ‘Commitment to excellence’ or a ‘new era of excellence’…

    Built around turds like UDDER FAILURE and Slowlando McLazy ?

    Bah.

    Not Raider Material.

  • morilla

    Writing was on the wall when they stated pulling him and started using the nickel more.

    55 is a dud. Complete molasses. No fire , no hunt. He’s soft. We don’t need that as a MLB wearing the silver and black. Especially not at his pick and price point.

    It’s been 3 years now. You can start using the word “bust” now. It’s ok.

  • RaiderRockstar

    Maverick made the right call benching Schaub today. if Houston doesn’t get the ball back here … he finished with less than 250 passing yards and only 1 TD