Part of the Bay Area News Group

Seymour decision haunting Raiders

By Steve Corkran
Tuesday, February 12th, 2013 at 1:02 pm in Oakland Raiders.

General manager Reggie McKenzie inherited a Raiders roster, he said, with “out-of-whack” contracts last season. As a result, he made a series of drastic moves designed to bring the situation under control.
Of note, he waived No. 1 cornerback Stanford Routt and linebacker Kamerion Wimbley soon after he was hired. Several other moves, including restructuring numerous contracts, helped the Raiders free up enough salary-cap space so that the Raiders could sign a handful of new players.
However, the one move McKenzie didn’t make is coming home to roost. McKenzie opted to keep aging defensive tackle Richard Seymour for one more season. As it turned out, Seymour played only eight games and didn’t have anywhere near the desired impact.
His biggest impact is going to be on this year’s salary cap, with Seymour counting for almost $14 million in so-called “dead money.” Put another way, almost one-eighth of their $121 million salary cap in 2013 is going to come from Seymour’s voided contract.
The Raiders would have been better off absorbing the blow of severing ties with Seymour last season, when it was apparent that they needed to deal with the contracts McKenzie considered out of whack.
As it stands, the Raiders are right up against the projected cap for 2013, with room needed in the coming days to re-sign some of their prospective free agents, other teams’ free agents and their 2013 draft picks.
Fortunately for McKenzie and the Raiders, there are a few viable options to get to where they need to be.
The obvious targets cutting or restructuring the contracts of wide receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey and defensive tackle Tommy Kelly. Cutting these two veterans would free up $10 million in cap space.
They could net more than $9 million more by cutting quarterback Carson Palmer, a risky move, and turning over the keys to the offense to third-year quarterback Terrelle Pryor or a veteran signed in free agency.
The more likely scenario involves restrructuring Palmer’s contract, as they did last offseason, so that it’s more cap friendly in 2013. The Raiders simply can’t afford to have Seymour and Palmer eat up approximately one-fourth of their cap space in 2013.
Beyond that, there’s not much else McKenzie can do this season, except to cut other veterans that free up a million here and a million there.
On the bright side, McKenzie is making strides toward getting the salary cap more in the Raiders favor. He can keep it that way by avoiding contracts such as the one given Seymour and made worse by keeping him around too long.

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  • RaiderRockstar

    Gents,

    I never said that JaMarcus was better than Carson. I just found it alarming that in the same sample size … Palmer actually had MORE INT’s and FEWER WINS than the biggest bust in NFL history

    that’s disgraceful.

    I know that Palmer has more TD’s & yards. I know that he has a better completion percentage & QB Rating. I know he has fewer fumbles and better leadership skills

    you don’t have to tell me that!!

    point is, JaWalrus trumping ANY raider QB in ANY category with a worse supporting cast should be considered an embarrassment

  • R8ER MIKE

    RRS !!!
    what the he11 is going on brother ??
    how have you been , havent seen you much latley.

  • 1960AutumnWind

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
    Gents,

    I never said that JaMarcus was better than Carson. I just found it alarming that in the same sample size … Palmer actually had MORE INT’s and FEWER WINS than the biggest bust in NFL history

    that’s disgraceful.

    I know that Palmer has more TD’s & yards. I know that he has a better completion percentage & QB Rating. I know he has fewer fumbles and better leadership skills

    you don’t have to tell me that!!

    point is, JaWalrus trumping ANY raider QB in ANY category with a worse supporting cast should be considered an embarrassment

    *******************************
    Dosent JR have a better completion % than Pryor and a better Int to TD ratio than Plunkett. What is this selective stats day!

  • R8ER MIKE

    heard you have a little Rockstar on the way !!
    congrats sir !!

  • DJ Johnny

    I was listening to 670 The Score yesterday and the one host asked the other “we’re hearing a lot of buzz about who will be the # 1 pick in the draft from KC. Who do you think that will be”? The other guy guessed “d-line…o-line?”. The other guy said “Nope…you’ll never get this….Geno Smith”. To which the other guy said “NO FREAKING WAY..YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME…IS ANDY REID THAT STUPID”?

    It went on and on from there.

  • http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/04/desmond-howard-425-sm.jpg Bo Schembechler Jackson

    Danny Southwick has better stats than JR, CP, or TP. So sad what happened…

  • Al_is_theraiders

    redskins and cowboys stripped of cap money but reggie has cap problems…what a joke.

  • http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/04/desmond-howard-425-sm.jpg Bo Schembechler Jackson

    So who will be our emergency LS next year?

  • R8ER MIKE

    Bo Schembechler Jackson Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
    Danny Southwick has better stats than JR, CP, or TP. So sad what happened…

    *************
    i remember him, but what did happen to him ??

  • 1960AutumnWind

    GDog

    It was also a talent issue especially on defense with all those 1 year contracts of people no one else wanted and people signed off other team’s practice squads etc…

    If we get Palmer back and maybe get Wiz back to guard by drafting a center in the 3rd and possibly address RT with a guy like the RT for Detriot that is coming free we might just be a whole lot better on offense but defense? How much of a good defense is coaching? How much is it talent? How well can Tarver mask the weaknesses on this team?

  • logic82

    As a GM you have to take some calculated risks. A lot of what RM should have done is second guessing plus you have to take into account he is a rookie. Cutting Routt and Wimbley made good financial sense especially Wimbley. That was understandable. Keeping Seymour and Palmer that was a judgement call. Getting Brisiel, at the time, was a sound pickup and reasonable money given his reputation. But there were choices made that was bound to be failures.
    1. He had to retain Bush or get a suitable replacement. He let Bush walk supposedly because of lack of money but we are carrying over 4.5 million from last season so it wasn’t money.
    2. If he wasn’t going to keep Bush then he had to get a suitable replacement like Benson who he let walk. Also Trindin Haliday was available.
    3. Letting Bruce Campbell go was a judgement call but I would have loved to have seen him at NT
    4.Knapp
    5.ZBS
    6.Keeping Seymour and Palmer was a judgement call. Their restructure however was a disaster. Classic example of a rookie being taken to the cleaners. Again, in almost a year and a half Palmer has pocketed almost 30 million.
    7. Getting these fresh off an injury one year scrub contract players. Almost every FA he picked up was coming off of a fresh injury. Odds say at least half of them are going to be re-injured. It was a guaranteed failure. We understand the the lack of money and the need for hiring one year scrubs but make sure they are not coming off an injury.
    8. Dumping and replacing the entire previous year CB corp. No matter how bad many thought Routt and CJ were you cannot scuttle your entire CB core. That alone ensured a losing season

  • Al_is_theraiders

    reggie you are free from a winning requirement…

  • http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/04/desmond-howard-425-sm.jpg Bo Schembechler Jackson

    909.R8ER MIKE Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:27 pm
    Bo Schembechler Jackson Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:25 pm
    Danny Southwick has better stats than JR, CP, or TP. So sad what happened…

    *************
    i remember him, but what did happen to him ??

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    He disappeared in the Rapture.

  • http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/04/desmond-howard-425-sm.jpg Bo Schembechler Jackson

    He ascended at the right hand of Al.

  • hwnrdr

    guest123 Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:02 pm
    Ahh, ya doesn’t has to call me Johnson! You can call me Ray, or you can call me Jay, or you can call me Johnny or you can call me Sonny, or you can call me RayJay, or you can call me RJ… but ya doesn’t hafta call me Johnson

    R8ER MIKE Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:04 pm
    lol Guest, now you are reaching waaayyyy back !!

    LOL….RIGHT???

  • Charlie

    It wasn’t broke??????
    A proud franchise?????????
    Kelly is not a bad player????????

    The stats that matter the most are wins and losses. I would hope most agree with that.

    OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS THE RAIDERS ARE 9-51 AGAINST PLAYOFF TEAMS. 9-51!!!!!!
    The point differential in the losses is a whopping 29-12. UNDER SEVEN DIFFERENT COACHING STAFFS!!!!!

    The 2011 Raiders under the beloved Hue were 2-4 against playoff teams winning by an average of 4 points and losing by an average of 15 points per game.

    Tom Cable was 5-13 against playoff teams winning by an average of 12 points and losing by an average of 17 points.
    THAT IS THE COLD REALITY UNDER SEVEN DIFFERENT COACHING STAFFS.

    A MASSIVE GAP IN TALENT AGAINST GOOD NFL COMPETITION.
    I feel (and the last ten years show) that coaching and scheme will not make a difference in wins and losses till the talent gap is closed. I also believe that changing schemes and coaches every year or two is disastrous for any NFL team. Without some continuity in the player evaluation process you make new coaches revisit issues again and again, thereby delaying progress not accelerating it.

    We need two really good drafts to be able to compete again. Especially ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. We simply cannot compete regardless of scheme, time zone, coaching, temperature of the hot dogs and any other meaningless attribute one can think of. WE DO NOT HAVE THE PLAYERS and it will not be fixed by next year.

    The 55-20 pounding we took at the hands of the Ravens this year while Ngata and Lewis are laughing it up on the sidelines is a pretty good indicator of how big a gap we really have regarding player talent.
    Sure we ran the ball against the Chefs and we played it close against the Browns and Jags w/o Jones Drew.
    Who cares?
    We get pummeled by good teams along the line of scrimmage.
    We simply do not have the talent on the lines to compete against NFL playoff teams.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    youre right charlie wins and losses matter reggie has 5 wins and 15 losses, 16 if tou count the senior bowl…(its his staff).

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    Gents,

    I never said that JaMarcus was better than Carson. I just found it alarming that in the same sample size … Palmer actually had MORE INT’s and FEWER WINS than the biggest bust in NFL history

    that’s disgraceful.

    I know that Palmer has more TD’s & yards. I know that he has a better completion percentage & QB Rating. I know he has fewer fumbles and better leadership skills

    you don’t have to tell me that!!

    point is, JaWalrus trumping ANY raider QB in ANY category with a worse supporting cast should be considered an embarrassment
    =========================================

    What your point proves is that football is a team game. If you put Steve Young or Dan Marino on a terrible team with no defense, would they lose games? Yes. Does that mean they suck? No.

    The bottom line is players like Seymour and Palmer come here. Seymour is a 7 time Pro Bowler. Palmer is a 2 time pro bowler who has lead the league in accuracy. All of a sudden they don’t play well, and all of you turn on them. Randy Moss did the same thing here. Kerry Collins did the same thing here. Moss got shipped out and had one of the best seasons a WR has ever had. Same thing with coaches. Norv Turner got run and two years later won the same division. Maybe it is not Seymour and Palmer. Maybe it has something to do with the Raiders.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Hypothetical;
    Mcfadden’s contract isn’t ending and Knapp is retained for two more years and DMAC continues to suck in Knapp’s system, playing 13 games a year. Threatens to retire if not traded or released. Goes to another team and picks up where he left off in 2011, tearing it up in other words.
    Did he quit on his team?

  • DJ Johnny

    Russell statistically wasn’t as bad as the perception of him was.

    You add his stats to his falling asleep at meeting’s and his complete lack of effort and interest and u have what we got from him.

    No way to spin it. Only Ryan Leaf shares in the discussion of biggest bust in history. They would both be in the team photo for that but Russell was too lazy to show up for it.

  • RaiderRockstar

    thanks Mike!

    friday 02/15 is my last day at the hospital..

    movin’ on up & family is growing

    exciting times in Podunk :)

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Charlie Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    We simply do not have the talent on the lines to compete against NFL playoff teams.
    ———————
    We had a Top Oline & Running game in 2011.

  • lefty12

    “16 if you count the senior bowl’.It is pretty obvious Cork’s New Years resolution to SOS isn’t making any progress.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Seymour Bush Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    What your point proves is that football is a team game. If you put Steve Young or Dan Marino on a terrible team with no defense, would they lose games? Yes. Does that mean they suck? No.
    —————————–
    You People need to quit comparing Palmer to HOF’ers, seriously.

  • Charlie

    Al

    Here is a hint.
    (It is the lack of player talent).
    JR,Fabian,Brayton,Harris, Slaughter, Sands, Warren, Hall,Walker,Moss,Sapp, Seymour,Kelly, Pears, Harris,Ellis, McClain etc. etc.
    were very bad, overpaid, way past their prime or some toxic combination of the three.

    No one fixes this pile of D*ng in one year.
    One year???????????
    Playoffs???? Are you kidding me????? Playoffs?????

    If it was just coaching why have we had seven different staffs failing to make the playoffs over a decade of futility???????
    All the coaches were bad?????????

  • R8ER MIKE

    good to hear RRS.
    ??no promotion, so you are putting youe feet in motion ?? new job, new baby… yes sir i would say things are looking up !! congrats again sir !!

  • Charlie

    Kell. PLEASE!!!!

    The 2011 Raiders under the beloved Hue were 2-4 against playoff teams winning by an average of 4 points and losing by an average of 15 points per game.

    Tom Cable was 5-13 against playoff teams winning by an average of 12 points and losing by an average of 17 points.
    THAT IS THE COLD REALITY UNDER SEVEN DIFFERENT COACHING STAFFS.

    A MASSIVE GAP IN TALENT AGAINST GOOD NFL COMPETITION.
    I feel (and the last ten years show) that coaching and scheme will not make a difference in wins and losses till the talent gap is closed. I also believe that changing schemes and coaches every year or two is disastrous for any NFL team. Without some continuity in the player evaluation process you make new coaches revisit issues again and again, thereby delaying progress not accelerating it.

    We need two really good drafts to be able to compete again. Especially ON THE LINE OF SCRIMMAGE. We simply cannot compete regardless of scheme, time zone, coaching, temperature of the hot dogs and any other meaningless attribute one can think of. WE DO NOT HAVE THE PLAYERS and it will not be fixed by next year.

    The 55-20 pounding we took at the hands of the Ravens this year while Ngata and Lewis are laughing it up on the sidelines is a pretty good indicator of how big a gap we really have regarding player talent.
    Sure we ran the ball against the Chefs and we played it close against the Browns and Jags w/o Jones Drew.
    Who cares?
    We get pummeled by good teams along the line of scrimmage.
    We simply do not have the talent on the lines to compete against NFL playoff teams.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    8-8…to 4-12….shall we count preseason?

  • hwnrdr

    R8ER MIKE Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:46 pm
    good to hear RRS.
    ??no promotion, so you are putting youe feet in motion ?? new job, new baby… yes sir i would say things are looking up !! congrats again sir !!

    Agreed! Keep moving to that top, Rockstar!

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Just like Republicans need to quit cutting their own throat by saying stupid things.

    You people need to quit comparing Carson Palmer with HOF QB’s, the Founding Fathers, or any of that other silly stuff.

  • DJ Johnny

    918,

    It does have to do w/ Raiders. Like Palmer or not, if you’re spending all that $$$ on your QB you surround that player with all the tools he needs to succeed to make sure you get the most our of your investment.

    Look what they do for Cutler in Chicago. They get him his old QB coach in Denver cuz he didn’t like the one they gave him in Chi. They get rid of Martz cuz Cutler doesn’t like him…Now they get rid of Tice cuz Cutler doesn’t like him..and they even consulted Cutler about the new head coach it was rumored.

    Let’s not forget they went out and got him his old primo #1 go to guy Brandon Marshall.

    They did all this not just to kiss Cutler’s arse for no reason, but because the QB is the most important position on the team and they want to give him every opportunity to succeed. Especially when they gave up TWO (2) # 1′s AND a # 3 AND their starter Kyle Orton for him.

    Palmer? He gets an undrafted rookie who caught 19 passes in college as his “go to guy”.

    Whether it’s Palmer, Pryor, Geno or WHOMEVER we have as our QB you better think about getting him some ammunition.

    In fairness to Russell…they didn’t give him jack squat. Just sayin’.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    poor russell had to run krapps offense…oh wait.

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    Hmm it appears that mentioning the Presidents name makes your comments eligible for moderation.

  • RaiderRockstar

    Mike,

    I applied for bigger things here, but that job went to a guy who has been here 12 years and I’ve only been here 5 years.

    he’s an idiot and nobody likes him. worse than that, it became my responsibility to train him

    I went to the Prez and said i’ve got mouths to feed, here’s my 2 weeks and he got misty eyed. oh well

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    Lets try another..

    president washington

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    WOW!!!!!!!

    That is crazy!!!!!

    i mention any u.s president by name and it is fine

    yet if you mention the current leader you are a candidate for moderation!!!!!

    There is no doubt that this board is a propaganda site!!!!

    there is no doubt that some of the most disgusting things i have read here are put therE by the MODS!!!!!

    inside the raiders…EXPOSED!!!!!

  • bcz24

    1. He had to retain Bush or get a suitable replacement. He let Bush walk supposedly because of lack of money but we are carrying over 4.5 million from last season so it wasn’t money.
    2. If he wasn’t going to keep Bush then he had to get a suitable replacement like Benson who he let walk. Also Trindin Haliday was available.
    3. Letting Bruce Campbell go was a judgement call but I would have loved to have seen him at NT
    4.Knapp
    5.ZBS
    6.Keeping Seymour and Palmer was a judgement call. Their restructure however was a disaster. Classic example of a rookie being taken to the cleaners. Again, in almost a year and a half Palmer has pocketed almost 30 million
    *******************
    1. BUSH DID NOT WANT TO BE A RAIDER!!!!!!!! He wasn’t in Alameda when free agency opened. He had no intentions of discussing any signing with Reggie, he was pissed about being slapped with the RFA tag the year before and had already decided he was gone.
    2. Cedric Benson did not want to play here for what we offered him. He went to GB because they offered him a STARTING position. Trindon Holliday is not a RB, why is he in the conversation?
    3. Reggie is a questionable GM because he didn’t try a failing offensive lineman at NT? Seriously?
    4 and 5. Whatever… he corrected his mistake now.
    6. Palmer did not GAIN any money from the restructure. A restructure just moves salary to bonus. Reggie didn’t write Palmers contract, the Bengals did. All Reggie did was take Palmers 11 mill salary this year and convert it to bonus money to spread the cap hit. He was on the team the whole year so he would have gotten that money anyways. Not sure where the rest of this 30 million is coming from. You need to work on your math I think

  • DJ Johnny

    I think they don’t let u say the current prez’s name cuz they don’t want to encourage political discussion.

    I don’t think they let u say his opponents name either.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    KoolKell Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Seymour Bush Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    What your point proves is that football is a team game. If you put Steve Young or Dan Marino on a terrible team with no defense, would they lose games? Yes. Does that mean they suck? No.
    —————————–
    You People need to quit comparing Palmer to HOF’ers, seriously.
    ===========================================

    Palmer is an excellent player who would command a very high price very quickly. You need to get your head out of your ass.

  • bcz24

    President Oblahblahblah’s name is banned because of all the race baiting in here. I questioned it myself, but really this place is to discuss the Raiders and football in general… Politics shouldn’t be in the discussion.

  • R8ER MIKE

    Strong work RRS !!

  • Follow the B@uceman

    1960AutumnWind Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
    Since Palmer throws an average number of Pic Sixes I think we need to call all QBs Pic six [Insert Name]

    Pic Six Brees, Pic Six Brady, Pic Six Manning wow this is so orginal isn’t it!
    ****************************

    Name the QB who leads in pick sixes in the last decade…………PALMER

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    A MASSIVE GAP IN TALENT AGAINST GOOD NFL COMPETITION.
    ===========================================

    Isn’t that Palmer and Seymour’s fault?

  • bcz24

    Nah, you can say Mitt Romney

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Follow the B@uceman Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    1960AutumnWind Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
    Since Palmer throws an average number of Pic Sixes I think we need to call all QBs Pic six [Insert Name]

    Pic Six Brees, Pic Six Brady, Pic Six Manning wow this is so orginal isn’t it!
    ****************************

    Name the QB who leads in pick sixes in the last decade…………PALMER
    ==========================================

    Link please

  • Follow the B@uceman

    Seymour Bush Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 1:03 pm
    KoolKell Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    Seymour Bush Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    What your point proves is that football is a team game. If you put Steve Young or Dan Marino on a terrible team with no defense, would they lose games? Yes. Does that mean they suck? No.
    —————————–
    You People need to quit comparing Palmer to HOF’ers, seriously.
    ===========================================

    Palmer is an excellent player who would command a very high price very quickly. You need to get your head out of your ass.
    ***********************************

    54-69 career record and current leader in pick sixes and a known quitter……yeah he is so excellent lmao

  • bcz24

    We would have been SO good this year if someone would have just assassinated Palmer. The Legend would have brought us to the Super Bowl.

  • Follow the B@uceman

    Seymour Bush Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 1:06 pm
    Follow the B@uceman Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 1:05 pm

    1960AutumnWind Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 12:20 pm
    Since Palmer throws an average number of Pic Sixes I think we need to call all QBs Pic six [Insert Name]

    Pic Six Brees, Pic Six Brady, Pic Six Manning wow this is so orginal isn’t it!
    ****************************

    Name the QB who leads in pick sixes in the last decade…………PALMER
    ==========================================

    Link please
    *********************

    If you have doubts prove me wrong….I dare ya to

  • bcz24

    At least B@uce is honest. He just fvcking hates Palmer. I respect that. I even respect Mistic’s opinion of him, just not his tactics of repeating it a billion times… the rest of you flip-floppers who hate him now can suck some donkey d!ck though.

  • Follow the B@uceman

    I dare you Glenny….since he came into the league in 2003 he is leader in pick sixes…..and to top that he didnt even start until 2004