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Palmer or Pryor? Raiders keeping open mind

Call it the Colin Kaepernick Effect, due diligence or just plain curiosity, but the Raiders are going into the 2013 season with an open mind when it comes Carson Palmer or Terrelle Pryor being their starting quarterback.
General manager Reggie McKenzie and coach Dennis Allen are steadfast in their stance that Palmer is the odds-on candidate to be the starter once again.
However, it sounds more and more as if Pryor at least will receive a much-longer look than anyone likely envisioned as recently as two months ago.
“In visiting with Dennis and Reggie, I know Reggie’s made the statement that there will always be competition,” Raiders first-year offensive coordinator Greg Olson said Wednesday. “There has to be competition at every position.
“I don’t ever think you hand anyone a position from season to season or year to year. … We’ll go forward with the direction that the organization sees fit. If they want competition, we’ll have competition.”
Part of that open-mindedness owes to Pryor playing well enough in his one start last season. The other part comes as a result of Kaepernick, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson taking the league by storm the past two seasons.
Of that quartet, Pryor seems most comparable to Kaepernick based on their builds, speed and skill set. Even so, Olson said he and the Raiders don’t know enough about Pryor yet to know how good he can be.
“We’d like to find that out,” Olson said. “What’s different about Kaepernick is certainly that they feel great about him in all areas of the game. They feel great about him as a passer. So he’s a guy that plays full time. It’s not as if they bring him in for a package or a play or two.”
Olson said it’s incumbent upon he and the Raiders discovering whether Pryor can be more than a player that gets featured in a package of plays designed to take advantage of his running ability.
That means seeing if Pryor can flourish in all facets of the game and not just someone that catches defenses off guard in some sort of Wildcat package.
“That’s we’ll have to find out with Terrelle Pryor,” Olson said. “We know what kind of an athlete he is. We need to find out what kind of decision maker he is. We need to find out if he’s a guy that can also sit in the pocket and deliver the ball from point A to point B accurately and on time and making the right decisions. That above all else becomes most important.”
Pryor started Oakland’s final regular-season game last season and showed enough to warrant closer scrutiny during offseason mini camps, training camp and exhibition games.
Palmer, 33, passed for more than 4,000 yards last season before he suffered broken ribs and a bruised lung against the Carolina Panthers. He is under contract through 2016.
Third-year player Pryor has two more years left on his rookie contract. The Raiders don’t have any other quarterbacks on their roster right now. Matt Leinart, the primary backup last season, is an unrestricted free agent.

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Steve Corkran

  • Just Fire Baby

    If Geno is off the board, and we can’t trade down, I think our two to pick from will be Millner and Mingo.

    We gave up a franchise record in passing yards last year I believe.

    I think Milner is more of a top-shelf prospect at his position though, so I would learn towards him.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    504 Raider Says:
    The best way to get that is keeping Palmer and drafting Geno Smith if he’s there. Then in the 4th rnd draft the best available QB. Four QBs on the roster should get us one legit guy that we can hang our hat on. I would keep all four on roster and have one inactive on game days. Palmer starts this final year and then hand the keys over to one of the other three guys. Or trade Palmer during the pre-season and roll with one of the younger guys. All win/win if you ask me.
    ======================================================

    That’s more insane than me wanting to roll with Lechler as our #3 QB. No offense.

  • DJ Johnny

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 7:57 pm
    Anybody else get a wordpress hiccup when submitting?

    I did and my post didn’t show up either.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist
  • Chris in NY

    We gave up so many passing yards primarily because we were 31st in sacks, and most importantly because Chubby Checker didn’t have a single speed, edge rusher on the roster. On defense we really missed the impact of Wimbley who could apply quick, consistent pressure off the edge.

    Passing attacks are so sophisticated today and QBs can victimize other defenders if he has time. The key is minimizing the time he has and giving him happy feet.

  • arena of truth

    The Raiders are not picking Geno with the first pick. They need DB’s D line, O line holes everywhere…..

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    What most posters don’t know is Briesel played almost the entire season with torn ankle ligaments which required surgery immediately after the season.
    ======================================================

    I was aware of that and hope that was his problem. A perfect storm of Barnes having no backup, Brisiel playing hurt, and nobody knowing what the fck
    Knapp was talking about, including Knapp.

  • Try Some Reality

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 8:04 pm
    If you believe this, CB’s will be high on the list.

    http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2013/2/13/3985016/oakland-raiders-coach-dennis-allen-free-agency-nfl-draft-off-season

    ========================================

    That DA didn’t funnly install his defensive scheme or even half of it is an interesting notion. However, one of the comments makes an interesting point…

    “Not having the right personnel didn’t stop DA from letting Knapp install his system fully.”

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Try Some Reality Says:
    That DA didn’t funnly install his defensive scheme or even half of it is an interesting notion. However, one of the comments makes an interesting point…
    “Not having the right personnel didn’t stop DA from letting Knapp install his system fully.”
    ====================================================

    Didn’t catch that. Pretty funny. Maybe DA is all defense.

  • RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit

    PER : : : RotoWorld says Brisiel and Tollefson to be released

    Brisiel would save 2.8 mil
    Tollefson: 1.6

  • Scourge

    Evening, P-man, PFB, DJJ, R-AD, and everyone else!

    PFB, just wanted to say a belated thank you for the links to the salary cap lesson. I thought I had a general understanding of the salary cap and the way you discussing it with Gdog made sense, but the more he countered, the more confused I became. Learned much about it that I didn’t know. Thanks very much!

  • Scourge

    And WTF is Beeech?! I was hoping he’d add some levity in past week or so.

  • Scourge

    :pootbutt:

  • Scourge

    :mrgreen:

  • shutdown

    My take on the OC’s words:

    1) Yes, Pryor will get a long look (what else did you expect him to say after the year of the unconventional qb? And, they SHOULD give him a look–but remember that they have to. They hear the chattering from people who are unhappy with a 4-12 season and so it would be insanity to say there is no qb competition, even if they know the results of said competition.)

    2) Olson’s words are a message to Pryor: you can’t compete at qb with the Raiders unless you can not only run for first downs but also be primarily a guy who can make quality decisions, stand in the pocket, deliver the ball accurately to moving targets.

    In short, a very politic message to 1)fans (yes, we want to get better and are trying and looking at all possibilities; 2) a message to Pryor (you got some first downs, you scored a couple of tds, but you had better show us something way beyond the escapability your legs afford you and 3) a message to Carson Palmer (the natives are restless).

  • http://000 Bob Marley

    To the people singing the I can’t believe how bad our WR’s are stuff…

    Reminder, they’re not and that’s not what you were saying coming into the 2012 season.

    Look back at 2011, with the right offense, there were some pretty good performances early on and up to mid-season, specially from DHB and Moore, even with guys in and out of the lineup due to injuries.

    Then, over the last 3 weeks, with Palmer, DHB and Moore getting more familiar with each other and the Offense, we saw their potential together:

    DHB and Moore finished 2011 -averaging- a combined 10 catches for 186 yards and 1 TD per game, with an outstanding average of 19.5 yards per catch over the last 3 games……pretty darn good, uh?.

    We were supposed to build on that finish and have those guys continue to grow and build on their relationship with Palmer and the Offensive system in place.

    Instead, some genius decided to scrap that Offense and install something that nobody was comfortable with…and it showed.

  • 504 Raider

    For all you guys who say no to drafting Geno Smith and we should roll with Palmer and and this and that, remember a year from now. We will be back to square 1 looking for a QB again. You draft Geno and another one later in this draft and the QB search is over in April 2013. I don’t give a crap about how many other hole or needs we have on this team. In the last 11 years the only position outside of kicking that has been a constant NEED is QB. Solve it now. If we don’t we probably will be just good or bad enough to miss out on Aaron Murray next year. Solve the damn problem now geniouses.

  • 504 Raider

    310.RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 8:37 pm
    PER : : : RotoWorld says Brisiel and Tollefson to be released

    Brisiel would save 2.8 mil
    Tollefson: 1.6

    ————————————————————————————————————–

    Best news all day.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 8:01 pm
    504 Raider Says:
    The best way to get that is keeping Palmer and drafting Geno Smith if he’s there. Then in the 4th rnd draft the best available QB. Four QBs on the roster should get us one legit guy that we can hang our hat on. I would keep all four on roster and have one inactive on game days. Palmer starts this final year and then hand the keys over to one of the other three guys. Or trade Palmer during the pre-season and roll with one of the younger guys. All win/win if you ask me.
    ======================================================

    That’s more insane than me wanting to roll with Lechler as our #3 QB. No offense.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    LOL
    You people…

  • DJ Johnny

    504 Raider Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
    310.RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 8:37 pm
    PER : : : RotoWorld says Brisiel and Tollefson to be released

    Brisiel would save 2.8 mil
    Tollefson: 1.6

    ————————————————————————————————————–

    Best news all day.

    That’s great but is it true? I still haven’t seen verification about Seymour being done in Oakland as reported by SB Report.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Evening, :mrgreen:

  • Al_is_theraiders

    more shrek mistakes briesel and tollefson…but hey hes a personnel guy.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    yeah right…da didnt install his defense…we saw it the first half of the season 20 yards off zone coverage…unless he was biding his time as they got smashed..

  • Just Fire Baby

    Roto World just takes quotes from other sources and then attaches a headline to it that is major speculation.

  • 504 Raider

    Seymour is gone DJ Johnny.

    Paul Gutierrez reported it on CSN BayArea. Raiders have a policy to not comment on contracts.

  • MiamiRaider78

    Hey, I havent been on here for quite awhile and this dipshet keeps saying the same mierda. lol

    So, Pryor will be getting a shot at being the starter? I guess the semi’s that share the same opinions with the pro’s will be upset.

  • http://000 Bob Marley

    Brisiel and Tollefson are no-brainers, there’s 4.4 million in savings, then pft said we have 4.5 million of adjusted unused cap space from 2012 that we can choose to carry over to the 2013 cap (or we can choose not to), let’s just say we do and there’s 9 million available not currently accounted for.

    There will be some money to spend, just like there was last year when we spend over 10 million of new money on veterans like Brisiel, Bartell, Barnes, Tollefson, Spencer and others, except this time we’ll have more, let’s see how we use it this time.

  • realtruraider

    more shrek mistakes briesel and tollefson…but hey hes a personnel guy.

    ——————————————————

    but……but……………he didn’t have any money, lol. Fkin excuse makers, I hope Reggie does alot better this year because the players he paid decent money for sucked, if it wasn’t for Wheeler I would say every player he brought in didn’t work out, not good at all

  • 504 Raider

    If Reggie did cut Brisiel and Tollefson I would applaud a GM who realizes a mistake in 1 year and rectifies it. Would you rather go another year with the mistake?

    Step up to the plate, swing, miss and head back to dugout with your head down. Don’t stand there arguing with the umpire holding up the rest of the game.

  • jackasspuria

    Been gone a while. Glad to be back.

    Regarding Rotoworld.com reporting Briesel and Tollefson targets of release, they are playing off the speculation and conjecture CSN Bay Area posed with potential salary cap relief.

    Also read that ESPN Insider article about DA using less than 60 percent of his defensive system last season. Interesting stuff. Basically said personnel limitations was the cause of the humiliation on the D side.

    Looks like, based off of reading the ESPN piece, defense will be a heavy focus draft day/free agency. ESPN piece notes corner back is a huge area of concern for DA and McKenzie.

    April and the days and weeks leading up to it are going to be interesting.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    That’s more insane than me wanting to roll with Lechler as our #3 QB. No offense.
    =====================================================
    Raider O Says: LOL
    You people…
    =====================================================

    But I’m serious.
    I guess 504 is too.
    Then again, I’m not writing palmer off after this year. I see two easy, three not unlikely.

  • jackasspuria

    Realtruraider

    And Wheeler was paid the absolute vet minimum.

    Makes you wonder why the other 31 teams in the league didn’t ink Philip before he signed with Oakland.

  • jackasspuria

    Watched the Greg Olson meet-the-media video on Raiders.com.

    Dude takes a veiled shot at the players’ performances with the “I’m not naive enough to believe it was all Greg Knapp’s fault” in regards to offensive shortcomings last season.

    That, along with Olson’s desire to return to the gap-power, downhill running scheme, are good attributes.

  • DJ Johnny

    Instead of having these stat battles on Palmer and other QB’s remember a case can be made for almost any player on any team for why they’re good.

    Is Dilfer better than Marino? C’mon now. Dilfer won a Super Bowl didn’t he? Wait. I thought it was ALL about the QB and the only stat that matters is wins and losses.

    I can make a strong case right now that Denver screwed up by replacing Tebow with Peyton Manning…on paper at least.

    Tebow’s a winner. TWO national titles. He takes over a 2-6 Denver team and goes 6-2 and wins the division, AND tops it off with a playoff win over Pittsburgh. He can’t pass? He does it by throwing for 336 yd’s including a long td pass to win in OT.

    Then that loser Peyton Manning comes in and wins some meaningless reg season games and instead of a glorious td pass to win his first playoff game..like Tebow did…Peyton chokes and throws an interception in OT. Comparitively, instead of choking in the heat of the moment like Manning, Tebow is clutch when it counts the most and throws a long TD pass..shredding the Pittsburgh D like only Tebow can.

    Tebow = Winner
    Manning = Choker

    Go ahead and talk about Manning’s SB. ANCIENT HISTORY. Does Denver need a 37 yr. old washed up loser like Peyton, or a young PROVEN WINNER like Tebow?

    At least Tebow won a playoff game for Denver.

    See how ridiculous that was? Is Tebow REALLY better than Peyton Manning? ARE U KIDDING ME?

    Almost anything can get spun.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    Instead, some genius decided to scrap that Offense and install something that nobody was comfortable with…and it showed.
    ===================================================
    True, but don’t forget that the guy that hired the genius and stood by him the entire year is going to be back.

    It was painfully obvious as early as the Az pre-season game that Krapp’s ‘reinventing’ the offense was going to be disastrous.

    Smiling Titty Boy doesn’t get a pass due to his ‘rookie’ status for failing to realize Krapp was going to be a disaster and taking pre-emptive corrective actions.

    Thank God Krapp was finally dismissed, but the whole episode raises very troubling questions about STB’s suitability to lead this team, or any other, moving forward.

    STB gets another shot in 2013 due to a perceived lack of personnel, need for some continuity, and the fact that it was his first stint as a HC.

    He’s got a lot to prove to this fan.

    I don’t like the guy and have no faith in him.

  • realtruraider

    Yeah, the best players Reggie brought in were the cheap ones. He struck out on the few players he paid more than the vet min, I guess he atleast can find some serviceable players on the cheap, but he will have to hit on some of the mid tier players this year

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    If Brisiel did play as hurt and as long as reported because we had no depth, I’ll reserve judgement. And hats off to him for hanging tough. Don’t know about Tollefson. If he couldn’t crack that defense for more playing time, something’s wrong.

  • realtruraider

    jackasspuria Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:24 pm
    Watched the Greg Olson meet-the-media video on Raiders.com.

    Dude takes a veiled shot at the players’ performances with the “I’m not naive enough to believe it was all Greg Knapp’s fault” in regards to offensive shortcomings last season.

    That, along with Olson’s desire to return to the gap-power, downhill running scheme, are good attributes.

    ——————————————————

    I didn’t really like that comment for some reason, I think its because it sounded like he is tryin to come in with an excuse all ready, Im so fkin tired of all the excuse bs

  • edward teach

    Bob Marley Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 8:57 pm
    To the people singing the I can’t believe how bad our WR’s are stuff…

    Reminder, they’re not and that’s not what you were saying coming into the 2012 season.

    ********************************************************

    All due respect Bob, but that’s exactly what I was saying coming into the 2012 season.

    We don’t have a consistent, big-play/big catch receiver on this team. We need one, at least.

  • jackasspuria

    Realtruraider

    Indeed. Agree completely with that.

    On a similar — yet different note — how much does Al Davis dumping Stevie Brown look now?

    Hindsight is 20-20, but man, what Stevie did last year with the G-Men, 8 picks…

  • edward teach

    338.realtruraider Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:31 pm
    jackasspuria Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:24 pm
    Watched the Greg Olson meet-the-media video on Raiders.com.

    Dude takes a veiled shot at the players’ performances with the “I’m not naive enough to believe it was all Greg Knapp’s fault” in regards to offensive shortcomings last season.

    That, along with Olson’s desire to return to the gap-power, downhill running scheme, are good attributes.

    ——————————————————

    I didn’t really like that comment for some reason, I think its because it sounded like he is tryin to come in with an excuse all ready, Im so fkin tired of all the excuse bs

    ********************************************************

    So, are you saying that it WAS all Greg Knapp’s fault?

  • jackasspuria

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Brisiel’s toughness is without question. He played with a fracture in his leg with the Texans.

    Wonder how he will fit into the new power scheme. He’s a ZBS specialist.

    Speaking of ZBS, read in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette the Steelers are switching to ZBS.

  • DJ Johnny

    504 Raider Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:12 pm
    Seymour is gone DJ Johnny.

    Paul Gutierrez reported it on CSN BayArea. Raiders have a policy to not comment on contracts.

    Ok. Didn’t realize it’d been verified. Thx.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    DJ Johnny. I remember a lot of epic shootouts between the Chargers and Raiders in the eighties. Fouts and Plunkett. I be hard pressed, deep down where I’m logical, to say Plunk was as good as Fouts, let alone better. But Plunkett won 2 SB’s, Fouts 0. So in the words of everyone’s favorite poster, they’re not even on the same planet.

  • Scourge

    You guys are more in the know than I am. How would the Raiders approach Palmer about a restructure/pay cut/whatever? Do the Raiders speak with CP’s agent, then the agent talks to CP, and back and forth that way or does CP sit in on the discussions with the Raiders from the start?

  • Timewantstop

    The raiders need good leadership that can articulate the game of football at a level that will change the culture of the raiders approach to football. For the last 12 years the raiders have been trying to find the right players by over paying for players hoping to land 2-3 good free agents that will take them to glory. It’s like playing monopoly hoping that someone lands on boardwalk or park place and then you win. The funny thing about these free agents, none of them are free.

    Most are players who have been the league for a while and have tons of question marks. I think RM and DA should take their time to rebuild this team but first they need to move on from the past mistakes. They need to purge the players that are not going to be able to follow the directions and expectations set by the coaches.

    Change is uncomfortable for all the coaches and playes but when you look at the big picture, change is the right thing for the long term. Palmer is a very good qb that has made a lot of things happen in the nfl. He is leader that has to make a decision for his future or the decision will be made for him. He is on a team that has been playing monoply with FAs for so long that his production dont justify his salary and he is not the only player in this position. This is actually a good time to change the culture of the raiders. The organization need to be transparent with the mistakes and take responsibility, make the necessary changes going forward, and focus on the future,

    Mastering the fundamentals of the game starts with developing a culure of trust. Set the expectations.

  • DJ Johnny

    jackasspuria Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:33 pm
    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Brisiel’s toughness is without question. He played with a fracture in his leg with the Texans.

    Wonder how he will fit into the new power scheme. He’s a ZBS specialist.

    Speaking of ZBS, read in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette the Steelers are switching to ZBS.

    Hey Jack. That’s interesting cuz isn’t the elimination of the cut block on the owners meeting docket this year? I heard it was. Aren’t the lower blocks a big part of what the zbs is all about?

  • jackasspuria

    DJ Johnny

    That’s what I hear. League/owners looking to protect D-lineman and linebacker.

    Going to be interesting to see what happens. Jacksonville is also going full ZBS according to Florida papers.

    May see a lot of ZBS teams next year.

    In my opinion, New England has a good mix with their hybrid zone-power schemes. And of course, Tommy Cable’s unit up in Seattle is a good group as well.

  • DJ Johnny

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    February 13th, 2013 at 9:36 pm
    DJ Johnny. I remember a lot of epic shootouts between the Chargers and Raiders in the eighties. Fouts and Plunkett. I be hard pressed, deep down where I’m logical, to say Plunk was as good as Fouts, let alone better. But Plunkett won 2 SB’s, Fouts 0. So in the words of everyone’s favorite poster, they’re not even on the same planet.

    Exactly. I love Plunkett but talent wise compared to Fouts?

    You could rightly say Plunkett is more of a “winner” than Fouts though.

    I get what you’re saying.

  • Scourge

    If Brisiel and Tollefson are cut, then we should have yet another new story from Cork. Mebbe on Thursday. I don’t know if I can take a new post two days in a row!