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Notes, quotes and observations from today’s OTA — updated

By Steve Corkran
Monday, June 3rd, 2013 at 1:18 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Coach Dennis Allen walked away from Monday’s practice much more pleased than he was at this point a week ago.
Allen bemoaned the lack of crispness last week and said he expected his players to bounce back the rest of the week and moving forward.
“The guys responded well,” Allen said. “The last two days of practice (last week) were a lot better, and that’s what you look for. They’re not going to have their A game out there every day out there. The key to me is, how do they respond when they get challenged? They did a nice job responding. They responded well today.”
Allen gets his players on the field Tuesday and Wednesday and then not again until the mandatory three-day mini camp next week.
He admitted that there’s still plenty of work to be done and that too many makeable plays aren’t being made. No big deal, though, that’s why teams practice in May and June.
“This part of what OTAs is for is to be able to go through these things, be able to see it live, and then we get a chance to go back into the meetings and make whatever corrections that we need to make,” Allen said. “You saw what practice looked like. We had some opportunities to make some big plays. Those are the plays that we got to make sure that we make come Sunday.”

– Tony Bergstrom was back working at left guard with the first-team offense Monday, just as he was the first week of OTAs.
Last week, Lucas Nix replaced Bergstrom. Allen has said that he intends to mix and match along the offensive line into training camp before he settles upon his starting five.
Bergstrom looks fine at left guard, though we won’t be able to tell for sure until there’s contact in practice and the exhibition games.

– Allen sounded more pleased by the play of his quarterbacks today than what we witnessed on the field today.
Too often, presumptive starter Matt Flynn misfired on passes that he shouldn’t have much difficulty putting on the mark. He also had a pass batted down at the line of scrimmage.
Flynn didn’t have any of his passes intercepted, but he missed high on a few passes, threw one way too low and had a few others miss wide of the mark.
Rookie Tyler Wilson didn’t have one of his better practices, either, though he didn’t do anything that made you cringe.
As for Pryor, he didn’t get as many reps. For the most part, he made respectable throws, save one that sailed over Conner Vernon’s head and into no man’s land.
Flynn doesn’t seem too concerned.
“We’re doing some good things out there,” Flynn said. “We’re getting more comfortable with each other and comfortable with being out on the field and playing. So I think as an offense we’re making a lot of strides. We still have a lot of things to clean up and that’s just going to come with time and repetitions. But so far I feel good about where we’re at and where we’re going.”

– Wide receivers Jacoby Ford (hamstring), Josh Cribbs (knee) and Isaiah Williams (undisclosed), tight end Nick Kasa (hamstring), fullback Jon Hoese (calf), defensive tackle Christo Bilukidi (ankle), cornerbacks D.J. Hayden (abdomen) and Coye Francies (ill) and linebacker Miles Burris (knee) did not practice today.
Cornerback Tracy Porter returned to practice after missing some time last week with a sore calf. Beyond that, everybody else was healthy enough to practice.

– For some reason, some people got the impression that Taiwan Jones practiced some at running back last week. To be certain, Jones is not working out at his old position. He’s working strictly as a cornerback as he attempts to make the conversion in his third season.

– Allen said Hayden is on track to rejoin his teammates at practice at the start of training camp. Hayden underwent surgery late last month to remove some scar tissue in his abdominal region.
“Everything went fine,” Allen said. “Everything was kind of as we had hoped and anticipated. Hey, listen, it’s a little bit of uncharted waters, but we still feel comfortable that he’ll be back and ready to go in camp. We still have seven weeks before we start training camp. It’s 51 days from now until we start training camp. We feel confident he’ll be back and be ready to go.”
Hayden was on the practice field today, sporting his No. 25, but he just watched from the sideline. The Raiders selected him with the 12th pick of the 2013 NFL draft.

– Pat Sims and Vance Walker appear to be the replacements for jettisoned defensive tackles Richard Seymour and Tommy Kelly.
Allen said Sims and Walker were targeted by the Raiders, in large part, because of their penchant for holding up well against the run, long a problem area for the Raiders.
“When you really look at it, that’s probably what they’re best suited to do right now,” Allen said. “They play the run square, they come off and attack blocks like they’re supposed to. They’ve been gap-sound and fundamental in that regard.”
Sims did a nice job of pushing the pocket today and getting a hand up at the proper time whenever the quarterback attempted a pass.

– Marquette King opened eyes at training camp last year with his ability to punt the ball a long way, oftentimes in excess of 70 yards.
Problem is, King displayed a maddening penchant for following up a few impressive punts with a clunker or two. Naturally, teams are keen on punters that display more consistency.
“That’s the big thing with Marquette, and that’s what we’re going to be evaluating as we go through this process all the way through the preseason games,” Allen said. “It’s consistency. It’s not really unlike any other position, but the guys that can be the most consistent in the NFL, those end up being the best players. That’s one of the things that he’s got to continue to work on. He’s improved that. He’s not where he needs to be yet, but he has improved in that area.”
King is battling for the right to succeed long-time Raiders punter Shane Lechler, who bolted for the Houston Texans via free agency after 13 years with the Raiders. Veteran Chris Kluwe is King’s competition right now.
At one point today, King launched a 70+-yard punt, then followed that with a rather short punt that appeared to be mishit. Just another example of how it was so easy to take for granted Lechler all these years and how consistency is easy to say but hard to achieve.

– King isn’t the only young player with some work to do before he can feel secure about a spot on the Raiders 53-man roster or meaningful playing time.
Allen said third-year quarterback Terrelle Pryor is making progress, “but he’s not there yet.”
“There’s been no lack of effort on his part,” Allen said. “Still, when you look at it, the quarterback position, he’s still young in the position and there’s still a lot of improvement he needs to make. He’s got a great athletic skillset, but still some of the finer point about playing quarterback are still what he needs to continue to get better at.”

– It’s not hard to find ringing indictments of former Raiders middle linebacker Rolando McClain. On Monday, Allen doled out another one without even mentioning McClain.
It came when Allen was asked about the leadership provided by Nick Roach, one of Oakland’s free-agent signings, who is tasked with replacing McClain in the middle of Oakland’s defense.
“Nick’s highly intelligent and he’s athletic,” Allen said. “He’s done a nice job of kind of being the quarterback of our defense. He’s kind of taken on that role and really has a passion about leading that team. With his athleticism, he’s not maybe your proto-typical Mike linebacker. He’s got some things that he can do from a coverage standpoint that lends some flexibility to us.”
In other words, Roach is most things McClain wasn’t during his three failed seasons with the Raiders. Few questioned McClain’s intelligence and athleticism. It’s his work ethic, lack of leadership and lackluster play that many called into question.
The Raiders released McClain earlier this offseason. He later caught on with the Baltimore Ravens, only to retire a short time later so that he can get his life in order.

– The departure of Brandon Myers to the New York Giants in free agency left a huge void for the Raiders to fill at tight end.
Myers led the Raiders in receptions last season, and he played almost every down, while youngsters David Ausberry and Richard Gordon bided their time on the sideline.
Ausberry and Gordon are back for another crack at earning more playing time. The Raiders drafted Nick Kasa and Mychal Rivera as a means of creating more competition.
So, where do things stand right now?
“It’s pretty wide open,” Allen said. “All those guys are doing a nice job. Obviously, it’s hurt not having Kasa out there because he’s a guy we really anticipated being able to step-in and potentially fill a role for us. So, hopefully, we’ll get him out there soon. The big thing, again, with those guys, just like it is with everyone else, it’s going to be the consistency issue because they are relatively young at the position.”

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  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    KoolKell Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    While this type of analysis may not offer any earth shattering realizations, it does help to emphasize each players strengths and weaknesses. Flynn is a superior passer and Pryor is a superior runner. Flynn has fumbled in both of his starts and has thrown two interceptions, so Pryor has been slightly more protective of the ball. Both QB’s struggle with throwing accurately do
    ———————–
    Flynn takes a sack every 10.2 pass attempts.
    Pryor has yet to be sacked.

    Did you calculate 3rd down conversions?
    ===============================================

    How’s about Pryor’s 4 for 11 lst half and 2 for 9 3rd Quarter? Did you factor that Pryor basically sucked the entire game until the last few minutes?

  • SnBG

    Did you calculate 3rd down conversions?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    http://www.advancednflstats.com/2008/01/is-3rd-down-conversion-percentage-good.html

    Is 3rd Down Conversion Percentage a Good Stat?
    I’ve previously commented that using 3rd down percentage in an analysis of team strength or a game prediction model is not a good practice. I realize this is counter intuitive. 3rd down percentage is highly correlated with winning, and unlike total rushing yards, the direction of causation is clear. Converting the always-critical 3rd down leads to winning. So why wouldn’t it be a good stat?
    “When we rate how good a team is, we’re better off knowing how likely it is to win future games than dissecting past games into molecular detail.”
    3rd down percentage is a function of a team’s passing ability, running ability, an opponent’s ability to stop them, and often random luck (you guess pass I call a draw). 3rd down percentage is an intermediate result between running/passing and the final result of interest–team wins. Injecting an intermediate result into a regression model may be useful in analyzing why teams won or lost past games, but it does not help evaluate how good a team is, or will be.

    Bill Parcells once barked, “You are what your record says you are.” I prefer the saying that “you’re only as good as your next game.” A team’s record may be what matters when deciding who goes to the playoffs, but a team can’t really change its record–except by winning or losing its next game. So when we rate how good a team is, we’re better off knowing how likely it is to win future games than dissecting past games into molecular detail. Many of those details are unique to the circumstances of the past. Models like this are known as “over-fit.”

    Stats such as 3rd down percentage tell us more about what has happened to a team in the past than how well it will do in the future. In a recent article, I tested how well various stats endure through the season. If a team stat from the first half of the season does well predicting itself in the second half of the season, we have a good idea that it is an enduring and repeatable skill, and not primarily the result of randomness and non-repeating circumstances. The table below lists how well each team stat correlates with itself between the first and second half of a season.

    Variable Correlation
    O 3D Rate 0.43
    D Int Rate 0.08
    D Pass 0.29
    D Run 0.44
    D Sack Rate 0.24
    O Fumble Rate 0.48
    O Int Rate 0.27
    O Pass 0.58
    O Run 0.56
    O Sack Rate 0.26
    Penalty Rate 0.58

    Offensive 3rd down rate endures fairly well within a season, with a correlation coefficient of 0.43. But what if I could predict a team’s 3rd down percentage with a completely different stat better than past 3rd down percentage itself? What does that tell us about 3rd down percentage as a stat?

    The table below lists other offensive efficiency stats as predictors of 3rd down percentage. In other words, these are the correlations between a team’s other stats from the first half of a season and the team’s 3rd down percentage from the second half of the same season.

    Predictor Correlation
    O 3D Pct 0.43
    O Pass 0.56
    O Run 0.08
    O Sack Rate -0.53
    O Int Rate -0.42

    We can actually predict a team’s 3rd down percentage better with offensive pass efficiency, or with sack rate, better than with a team’s to-date 3rd down percentage. And with the correlation with run efficiency at a very small 0.08, we see that the passing game has almost everything to do with 3rd down conversions. (Teams tend to pass on anything longer than 3rd and 1 these days.)

    So why include 3rd down percentage in a rating of team strength or a win prediction model when passing stats are already included? It would only serve to add random noise. Instead of telling us how good a team is or will be, it would tell us more about the unique circumstances and random luck the team experienced in the past.

    If we still want to use 3rd down percentage as a stat to predict how good a team will be, we can. After all, 3rd down success is critical in sustaining drives and scoring points. It correlates with team wins at about 0.49 and with points scored at 0.65, both relatively very high. Instead of actually using to-date 3rd down percentage, we should estimate what the 3rd down percentage will be based on the stats we know to be predictive.

    The table below is a regression model using passing stats to estimate future 3rd down percentage.

    Variable Coefficient p-value
    constant 39.6 0.00
    O Sack Rate -11.6 0.00
    O Pass Efficiency 1.29 0.01
    O Int Rate -1.53 0.00

    The actual model coefficients aren’t as important as the fact that the r-squared is 0.94. That means that we can predict a teams’s future 3rd down percentage with almost crystal ball-like accuracy using passing efficiency stats. And ironically, if we add previous 3rd down percentage itself to the model, it is the only non-significant variable (p=0.13) and r-squared is (strangely) reduced.

    An r-squared of 0.94 is the equivalent of a correlation coefficient (r) of 0.97. Remember, this compares to the self-correlation of previous 3rd down percentage of only 0.46.

    So if we want to know a team’s ability to covert 3rd downs, we’re far better off looking at passing stats than previous 3rd down conversion rates. And a prediction model is far better off using those passing stats (pass efficiency, interception rate, sack rate) and excluding to-date 3rd down percentage.

  • inonewordraider

    stats stats stats

    if you ask me pryors stats were inflated in the preseason. got long td’s, couple big runs, but looked nothing like an nfl qb

    vs san diego made the right plays, was assertive, looked to run as a last resort, had plenty of passes dropped hurting his stat line, made me optimistic

  • SnBG

    ===============================================

    How’s about Pryor’s 4 for 11 lst half and 2 for 9 3rd Quarter? Did you factor that Pryor basically sucked the entire game until the last few minutes?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Doesn’t matter. The outcome was the same both teams lost while Flynn fumbled. Pryor didn’t.

  • J Hill

    not true…That is actual game footage….
    Guy behind him is DHB…

    ——————————————————————————

    LMFAO

  • new improved dr robert now cherry flavored

    Priesttj12 Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
    It’s OK to have an honest opinion of Pryor, but in here it gets derogatory. That is why some of us feel it crosses the line. It gets personal……hateful even.
    *****
    Nah. Nobody hates Pryor. That just gets repeated by a few of u guys.

    It’s really this simple:

    We ALL see that he’s a great runner and works hard and has a great attitude, etc.

    Some (u people) think he’s GONNA be a GREAT passer.

    Some (us people) think he’s NEVER gonna be a DECENT passer.

    The end.

  • SnBG

    Pryor gets the same results as Flynn without the fumbles.

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    inonewordraider Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:21 pm

    stats stats stats

    if you ask me pryors stats were inflated in the preseason. got long td’s, couple big runs, but looked nothing like an nfl qb
    =============

    pryor had the best passing production of all 3 qbs in last pre season!!

    so if pryor “looked nothing like an nfl qb” then what did lienart and your hero palmer look like?

  • new improved dr robert now cherry flavored

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
    new improved dr robert now cherry flavored Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
    qbs with so called mechanical issues

    marino, kosar, tyler wilson, cam newton, kappy, cunningham

    some guys dont have the so called text book form but still become very good qbs

    pryor has smoothed out his mechanics and pre season will show it
    *******
    Wow. U just talked about people basing things on their dreams.

    U have no reason to believe he has smoothed out his mechanics.
    ===================

    false

    watch the preseason last year, i commented then on his noticeable improvement

    shut up lol
    **********
    Lol!

    Let me see if I understand.

    Ur proof that he has improved his mechanics for THIS season is last preseason?

    Wow. That makes sense.

  • RaiderDebo

    John David Booty Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
    RediaR Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Jamarcus can’t hit a barn 10 yards in front of him, but he’ll throw the ball through the neighbor’s barn trying.
    ———————————–
    Jamarcus had some really ugly moments. But he did have some passes here and there that were incredible. That laser against the Bills that JLH took 84 yards in 08. Not too many guys in the league even right now that could make that pass, in between defenders. That was serious.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    You can bet Trestman has cued that one up a few times.

  • rediaR

    Pryor fumbled on the dumba$$ play that ended the first half.

  • new improved dr robert now cherry flavored

    Pryor sucks.

    Deal with it.

  • rediaR

    whoops not that play, another dumba$$ play

  • rediaR

    melt together after a while.

  • SnBG

    Flynn sucks.

    Deal with it.

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    new improved dr robert now cherry flavored Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:32 pm

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
    new improved dr robert now cherry flavored Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 1:54 pm
    qbs with so called mechanical issues

    marino, kosar, tyler wilson, cam newton, kappy, cunningham

    some guys dont have the so called text book form but still become very good qbs

    pryor has smoothed out his mechanics and pre season will show it
    *******
    Wow. U just talked about people basing things on their dreams.

    U have no reason to believe he has smoothed out his mechanics.
    ===================

    false

    watch the preseason last year, i commented then on his noticeable improvement

    shut up lol
    **********
    Lol!

    Let me see if I understand.

    Ur proof that he has improved his mechanics for THIS season is last preseason?

    Wow. That makes sense.
    ==============

    no fool

    pryor showed off his vastly improved mechanics last year in preseason, i have no reason to believe he has not continued to improve or somehow regressed

    if you are going to keep jocking me after every post could you at least make it challenging?

    beating the hell out of you has lost its spark, its like beating super mario brothers over and over again

  • RaiderRockstar

    90 minutes until the Heat dominate!

    sorry spur fans

    8)

  • xraided

    RaiderDebo Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
    John David Booty Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
    RediaR Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Jamarcus can’t hit a barn 10 yards in front of him, but he’ll throw the ball through the neighbor’s barn trying.
    ———————————–
    Jamarcus had some really ugly moments. But he did have some passes here and there that were incredible. That laser against the Bills that JLH took 84 yards in 08. Not too many guys in the league even right now that could make that pass, in between defenders. That was serious.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    You can bet Trestman has cued that one up a few times.

    ______

    yea but like in any sport, you MUST BE consistent. JaBackFat will never be consistent. he’s got a long way to go before he can even read a playbook correctly.

    what bugs me so much about him is that he took 4 years to try again. he ADMITS that he’s broke, which is the only reason he wants back in the league. he thinks it should be handed to him like the #1 overall pick. he will fail, end of story.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNoi_wwzbtQ Zymurge

    Priesttj12 Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:29 pm
    I said it the day he hired a rookie coach this will NOT ….work!

    A rookie GM hires a rookie HC especially when the owner is a rookie that is just bad all around. Something is BOUND to go very wrong. IT DID and it still will until they change it and get more experience at thos every key positions. Mark being a rookie owner should’ve hired a vet GM an fif not make sure the rookie GM gets a vet HC but noooooo everybody in the leadership roles are rookies. WHY US????

    =====

    And this year none of the owner, GM or HC (or DC and OC for that matter) are rookies. Everybody has to be a rookie once, so why are you holding against this crew for not being stellar their first year? Especially in an unprecedented salary cap nightmare that involved cutting numerous starters.

    As second year men in all their respective positions, I’m looking for less mistakes, improved decisions, and consistency. If they show that they are growing in these aspects, then it will be judged in hindsight as good overall choices to go all rookie in what was clearly the first year of a multi-year rebuilding plan.

  • xraided

    “pryor showed off his vastly improved mechanics last year in preseason, i have no reason to believe he has not continued to improve or somehow regressed”

    i hope to g0d you’re right

    but from what people are seeing, he’s still far away from starting… which means the mechanics aren’t there yet.

    we shall see very soon.

  • inonewordraider

    pryor had the best passing production of all 3 qbs in last pre season!!

    so if pryor “looked nothing like an nfl qb” then what did lienart and your hero palmer look like?

    ___________
    leinert looked good, palmer didn’t

    just cuz I thought palmer was an upgrade at qb, doesn’t make him my hero

    I know you assume many things to be “suspect” but you got it wrong on this one

  • xraided

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:39 pm
    90 minutes until the Heat dominate!

    sorry spur fans

    ____

    how long have you been a fan of MIA?

  • J Hill

    90 minutes until the Heat dominate!

    ——————————————————————–

    Dominate????

    As in wire to wire victory?

    Winning by 15 or more?

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNoi_wwzbtQ Zymurge

    RediaR Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:33 pm
    Pryor fumbled on the dumba$$ play that ended the first half.

    ===

    Good point. That example of his horrible decision making had the same impact as a turnover, even if not counted in the stats that way. Giving up a scoring opportunity with downs left due to poor clock management at the end of a half is just boneheaded. But he sure ran fast, so clearly he has all the tools!

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    inonewordraider Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    pryor had the best passing production of all 3 qbs in last pre season!!

    so if pryor “looked nothing like an nfl qb” then what did lienart and your hero palmer look like?

    ___________
    leinert looked good, palmer didn’t
    ===========

    so then how did you arrive at the conclusion the pryor “looked nothing like an nfl qb”?

    pryor had better passing stats than lienart and palmer across the board?!?!?

  • J Hill

    LeBron s going to have to score 35 or so each game for the Heatles to win.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    How about sacks per attempt?

  • rediaR

    Either way, may the best man win. And remember to throw the ball to your lord and savior Connor Vernon.

  • xraided

    preseason is preseason is preseason guys. sh!t has never proven to matter… yes you can tell certain things… but that’s why they’re talking about reducing them to 2 games … they’re just irrelevent when it comes to stats and whatnot … not saying either way …

    it’s more about who knows the playbook more and can execute the way the plays are designed and how they react when the play breaks down.

    if TP was ‘across the board’ better than matt and carson, wtf didn’t he start?! he was playing against 3rd and 4th stringers, just like in the week 17 game vs SD … we must see him take first team reps in preseason.

    i want to see him against NFL starting brutes. if he can duck and dodge and make a clean throw in traffic against good DB’s… sign me up! until he gets his shot it’s hard to say

  • The Florida Pete

    SnBG Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:31 pm
    Pryor gets the same results as Flynn without the fumbles.

    ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

    yes… an excellent analysis based on a thorough examination of the extensive body of work that each of them has…

    !

    !

    BAH HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAH

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    SnBG Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    ===============================================

    How’s about Pryor’s 4 for 11 lst half and 2 for 9 3rd Quarter? Did you factor that Pryor basically sucked the entire game until the last few minutes?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Doesn’t matter. The outcome was the same both teams lost while Flynn fumbled. Pryor didn’t.
    ============================================

    Of course it matters. Flynn has proven he can handle the job description: stand and deliver the rock. Pryor has not. And for the uninitiated watching at home, there might be four or five guys who spot a flaw in the defense. They send in a play and no one sees this at home because a) the camera’s don’t follow it, and b) the fan at home is not trained to look for it. But what the fan at home sees is Pryor running around, evading rushers and that looks exciting. What they missed is a WR or TE running absolutely wide open that Pryor completely missed, because he is so used to running around and using his ability, instead of doing the job description which is delivering the rock.

  • xraided

    “What they missed is a WR or TE running absolutely wide open that Pryor completely missed, because he is so used to running around and using his ability, instead of doing the job description which is delivering the rock.”

    bingo! the QB that can identify and make the throw before getting blasted is our guy.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Xraided Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    preseason is preseason is preseason guys. sh!t has never proven to matter… yes you can tell certain things… but that’s why they’re talking about reducing them to 2 games … they’re just irrelevent when it comes to stats and whatnot … not saying either way …
    —————————
    You people say the same damn thing every year. Before they come out 0-4 in the Reg Season of course. Damn.lol, smh.

  • SnBG

    Seymour Bush Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:53 pm
    SnBG Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    ===============================================

    How’s about Pryor’s 4 for 11 lst half and 2 for 9 3rd Quarter? Did you factor that Pryor basically sucked the entire game until the last few minutes?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Doesn’t matter. The outcome was the same both teams lost while Flynn fumbled. Pryor didn’t.
    ============================================

    Of course it matters. Flynn has proven he can handle the job description: stand and deliver the rock. Pryor has not. And for the uninitiated watching at home, there might be four or five guys who spot a flaw in the defense. They send in a play and no one sees this at home because a) the camera’s don’t follow it, and b) the fan at home is not trained to look for it. But what the fan at home sees is Pryor running around, evading rushers and that looks exciting. What they missed is a WR or TE running absolutely wide open that Pryor completely missed, because he is so used to running around and using his ability, instead of doing the job description which is delivering the rock.
    lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    Flynn missed a bunch of receivers also. Flynn throws an int every 28 attempts. Like I said. Outcome matters. The results are the same with Flynn making more mistakes

  • inonewordraider

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:47 pm
    inonewordraider Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:42 pm

    pryor had the best passing production of all 3 qbs in last pre season!!

    so if pryor “looked nothing like an nfl qb” then what did lienart and your hero palmer look like?

    ___________
    leinert looked good, palmer didn’t
    ===========

    so then how did you arrive at the conclusion the pryor “looked nothing like an nfl qb”?

    pryor had better passing stats than lienart and palmer across the board?!?!?

    ___________________________
    he didn’t look poised. didn’t look comfortable staying in the pocket and passing, ran too often.

    contrast to the diego game, he looked assertive. ran as a last resort. looked more accurate than he had in the past. didn’t make the big mistake, except for 1 throw. looked good

  • Priesttj12

    SnBG Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:27 pm

    ===============================================

    How’s about Pryor’s 4 for 11 lst half and 2 for 9 3rd Quarter? Did you factor that Pryor basically sucked the entire game until the last few minutes?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Doesn’t matter. The outcome was the same both teams lost while Flynn fumbled. Pryor didn’t.
    ============================================

    Of course it matters. Flynn has proven he can handle the job description: stand and deliver the rock. Pryor has not. And for the uninitiated watching at home, there might be four or five guys who spot a flaw in the defense. They send in a play and no one sees this at home because a) the camera’s don’t follow it, and b) the fan at home is not trained to look for it. But what the fan at home sees is Pryor running around, evading rushers and that looks exciting. What they missed is a WR or TE running absolutely wide open that Pryor completely missed, because he is so used to running around and using his ability, instead of doing the job description which is delivering the rock.
    *************************
    Sure he didn’t see it but you did huh?

    FOLKS PREASEASON WILLBE HERE SOON ENOUGH RELAX ALREADY!!

  • SnBG

    Xraided Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 5:00 pm
    “What they missed is a WR or TE running absolutely wide open that Pryor completely missed, because he is so used to running around and using his ability, instead of doing the job description which is delivering the rock.”

    bingo! the QB that can identify and make the throw before getting blasted is our guy.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Flynn missed a lot of receivers while being blasted and fumbled and threw ints.

  • Raiders for life

    Both sides of the Pryor camp have valid points.
    I think TP has value, 3rd downs and redzone. I think it would help him along if he could get some intermittent playing time before he has to potentially start a game.
    I guess we’ll see if Olson is creative or not.

  • Priesttj12

    All players look and get better as they play. The key will be who’s closer to their upside at this point, and who has the bigger upside to begin with.

  • rediaR

    He threw some passes that could have gotten WRs killed.

  • Just Fire Baby

    “What they missed is a WR or TE running absolutely wide open that Pryor completely missed, because he is so used to running around and using his ability, instead of doing the job description which is delivering the rock.”

    ***************************

    Gruden brought up this point last year on MNF when being critical of Mike Vick.

    There was a play when Vick left a clean pocket, turned the corner and picked up the first.

    Gruden started immediately talking about the casual fan would love that, but there was a WR wide open down the field for what should have been a TD.

    Not all 8 yard scrambles by QB’s are positives.

  • Priesttj12

    Song never stops…..RELAX guys!

  • RaiderDebo

    xraided Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:40 pm
    RaiderDebo Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 4:32 pm
    John David Booty Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 3:56 pm
    RediaR Says:
    June 6th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Jamarcus can’t hit a barn 10 yards in front of him, but he’ll throw the ball through the neighbor’s barn trying.
    ———————————–
    Jamarcus had some really ugly moments. But he did have some passes here and there that were incredible. That laser against the Bills that JLH took 84 yards in 08. Not too many guys in the league even right now that could make that pass, in between defenders. That was serious.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    You can bet Trestman has cued that one up a few times.

    ______

    yea but like in any sport, you MUST BE consistent. JaBackFat will never be consistent. he’s got a long way to go before he can even read a playbook correctly.

    what bugs me so much about him is that he took 4 years to try again. he ADMITS that he’s broke, which is the only reason he wants back in the league.

    @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

    He admits he’s broke???? News to me. Please provide a link. And why the hell do you give a sht when he decided to make a comeback?

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Sure he didn’t see it but you did huh?
    =====================================

    Actually everyone but Pryor and the Pryor brigade saw it. Which is why Pryor is still third string. I have never in my life seen so much fervor over a 3rd string player. It’s kind of humorous really. It’s like having a bunch of fans here screaming about how great Eddie Carmona is.

  • Just Fire Baby

    Flynn throws an int every 28 attempts.

    ****************************

    How many INTs and pass attempts in Pryor’s start?

    Because it reads by me that it was exactly one INT on 28 passing attempts.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    I know this is going to sound agenda driven, but I think the hardest thing to overcome in football is a QB who turns the ball over.

  • mcfadden20.

    Wilson got this job locked down, now go ahead cry about Flynn and/or Pryor

  • inonewordraider

    now I thought pryor looked good v diego when I previously thought he sucked in preseason and in college

    so i’m hoping it’s not one of things like having a crappy job then going to a better job and you think the new job is the best job ever, but it’s really just cuz the one you had before sucked

    but either way he improved dramatically and with his work ethic he’ll continue to improve. it’d be great if he could flat out win the job out of preseason but with his upside, maybe he’s the guy to lead us in 2014

    of course as a qb he doesn’t have the chances dhb has had in meaningful games so he has to make the most of his opportunities

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    He admits he’s broke???? News to me. Please provide a link. And why the hell do you give a sht when he decided to make a comeback?
    =========================================

    Why do you think he is TRYING to make a comeback? Because of his “love of the game?”

  • Just Fire Baby

    I think if you combine the best skill sets of our 3 QB’s, you still don’t have a top 10 QB.