Part of the Bay Area News Group

Notes, quotes and observations from camp — Day 2

By Steve Corkran
Saturday, July 27th, 2013 at 7:51 pm in Oakland Raiders.

NAPA — Several key players went down with injuries Friday that turned out to be of the season-ending variety. The news came one day before the Raiders throw on pads for the first time and ratchet up the intensity.
Don’t expect coach Dennis Allen to change his philosophy in light of the serious injuries. It’s full go Sunday when the Raiders hit the field for the third time.
“We want to be a tough physical team,” Allen said. “To do that, you have to be able to practice that way. We’re going to practice tough, we’re going to practice physical and guys are embracing that.”
That doesn’t mean that Allen won’t keep tabs on his players. In fact, he said he monitors his players on a daily basis and when they’re beaten down, it’s time to back off.
Still, the game is football is a rough sport, and Allen doesn’t subscribe to coaching in fear of losing a player to injury.
“This is a tough game,” Allen said. “Unfortunately, injuries are part of the game and they occur. At the end of the day, you have to have a next-man-up philosophy and you have to deal with those hurdles when they come up.”
Center Stefen Wisniewski is among those itching for Sunday, when the players finally get to throw on full pads and start banging into each other.
“It’s all good working on your feet and hands and stuff with no pads but, really, no good O-line, you can’t tell until you put pads on,” Wisniewski said.

– Andre Gurode might be 34 years old, but he said he feels as good as he has in three years and he isn’t here just to collect a paycheck.
Actually, Gurode sounds like a man that expects to be in the starting lineup for the regular-season opener, though he stopped short of making such a bold prediction.
“I’m not a guy that just wants to come and occupy a spot,” Gurode said after his first practice with the Raiders. I want to come in and compete and make my presence known. Whatever way they need me, I’m here.”
Gurode was with the Chicago Bears last season, but he didn’t appear in any regular-season games. He last played in a regular-season game in 2011, when he was with the Baltimore Ravens.
Gurode played mostly center for the Dallas Cowboys from 2002-10. He played both guard spots and center for the Ravens. Coincidentally, he played all three interior spots in practice today.
Don’t even think of questioning whether Gurode is on his final legs.
“Oh, no, I’m not a guy that just signs on to just to do it; I got plenty left in the tank,” Gurode said. “I actually feel better now than I felt three years ago, which is crazy.”
Allen seemed pleased with Gurode’s performance Saturday.
“He’s a big, powerful guy,” Allen said. “We signed him to have an opportunity to come in and compete and have a chance to make this football team. I see him playing inside center-guard combination type of player. For the first day, I’ll look at the tape, but I thought he was OK.”

– Signing Gurode is a luxury the Raiders had because they had an open roster spot and Gurode was on the open market. By and large, don’t expect many more players walking through the gates at training camp that can make a huge impact on this year’s team.
“There are no saviors coming,” Allen said. “I feel very confident in the guys we have, and they all understand the type of football team we’re going to be and how we’re going to be.”
In other words, Allen said, most of the guys that will comprise the 53-man, opening-day roster are on the 90-man roster right now.

– Cornerback D.J. Hayden sported a red, non-contact jersey for a second straight day. Based on his play, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about protecting himself from injury.
On one play, Hayden closed on wide receiver Rod Streater on a deep pass from Matt Flynn and broke up the pass as he ran into Streater.
Hayden, of course, just returned to practice after missing the tail end of the offseason workouts because of a surgery in late May to remove scar tissue in his abdomen, something that resulted from the aftermath of a surgery six months earlier.
There is no timetable for Hayden’s return to full action. For now, he is participating in every drill and trying to avoid contact whenever possible.

– Flynn spent time backing up JaMarcus Russell at Louisiana State. No telling how much, if any, he learned from Russell. However, it’s clear that Russell could learn plenty from Flynn.
For instance, Flynn spent more time signing autographs, posing for pictures and putting smiles on fans’ faces than any other Raiders player after practice Saturday.
During Russell’s three-plus seasons with the Raiders, he routinely put a phone up to his ear — who knows if anyone was on the other end of the line most times — or threw on headphones so that he could blow past fans who waited in the sun just for an autograph, a picture, a fist bump, something.
Flynn then spoke with the local media for about 10 minutes and a national reporter for 15 minutes or so before he disappeared into the locker room.
By then, some of his teammates already were gone from the field.

– Linebacker Miles Burris, defensive tackle Pat Sims and offensive tackle Menelik Watson still haven’t been cleared to practice. Allen didn’t have an update for any of the three players.

– Owner Mark Davis watched the entire practice for the second straight day. He checked out the proceedings from the open area between the two fields. Afterward he chatted with a couple of players.

– The highlight of the day came during one-on-one passing drills, with tight ends and running backs squaring off against linebackers and defensive backs.
Early on, the defense set the tone, with middle linebacker Nick Roach running stride for stride with speedy running back Darren McFadden and knocking down the ball at the goal line.
Soon thereafter, the quarterbacks and receivers seemingly had their way with the defenders almost every time. The fans roared their approval time and again.

– Tony Bergstrom worked with the first-team offense at left guard today, one day after Lucas Nix got the first shot.
Left guard isn’t the only spot on the offensive line up for grabs, it appears. Once again, Alex Barron got some snaps with the first-team, with incumbent starter Khalif Barnes getting the rest.

– Allen said he and the Raiders were aware of the possibility of wide receiver Andre Holmes getting suspended by the league for violating its performance-enhancing substances.
“It’s a league matter, not a suspension handed down by the team,” Allen said. “We’ll just leave it at that.”
Holmes said he preferred to let stand a statement he made earlier today that was obtained by NFL.com. Here it is in its entirety. You be the judge:
“When I received a letter from the NFL stating that I tested positive for amphetamine, which is banned under the NFL performance enhancing substances policy during an off-season test in April, I was very surprised as I know that I did not take any banned substances,” Holmes said. “I know that I had been quite ill when I was tested in early April, as I reported to the sample collector at the time my sample was given, so I thought one of the medications I was taking was responsible.
“However, to this day, even after further testing, I do not know how the substance got into my system. The drug policy rules are very strict with a zero tolerance, so after consulting with the NFLPA (NFL Players Association) and reviewing the medical documentation, I will not appeal the discipline. During training camp and preseason I will work extremely hard, and I will continue to work intensely so that I’m ready to contribute the minute I am back. I sincerely apologize to my teammates, coaches and Raiders fans for this situation.”

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  • RaiderTater

    Seymour Bush Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    You all do realize that qb’s are pretty much playing catch at this point?
    No one’s in their face. they know no one is going to lay a hand on them.
    1 on 1 drills? 7 on 7 drills? Yes, it’s nice to see players get their rep, but you can’t honestly believe that you can measure how a qb will play in week one in non-contact drills?
    Some of you seem to want to grab onto anything, and hold on for dear life, even though it’s straw.
    ==============================================

    True, but they do have to make plays and heave the rock into tight windows. Flynn was head and shoulders better than Pryor at that yesterday. And then when they go to 11 on 11’s believe me, there is a pile up. Guys do get hurt in camp.
    ————–
    Agree.
    I used to get excited about alot more than I do now.
    So many training camp successes that went to bust too quickly.
    So many exhibition camp “stars” that did a face plant once a 275 lb LB was bearing down, or a safety coming at a WR across the middle.
    Just saying when I log on and read posters getting all bent out of shape because Wilson threw picks and didn’t get blasted, or Pryor making some throws with zip and a spiral, thinking he’s now all that, makes me believe some are just looking for an argument, for today, knowing it has nothing to do with first game of the season.
    Same with preseason wins/losses.
    Only a damn idiot coach coaches a preseason game with win at all cost mentality.
    Most don’t. Hope DA doesn’t as well.
    See what players can do what should be the goal, not crossing the goal line.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    wow our DB’s are worlds better than they have been since the Woodson’s first go around… it seems

    is DJ out there too still red shirted?! Chuck has been raving about this kid coming outa the gate with perfect footwork…
    =========================================

    On the first couple of plays Hayden got baked like a cup cake out there. Rod Streator just owned him. Rod Streator looks very very very good out there you guys. But then Hayden started to come around a bit, almost picked off Pryor on one play, and was mixing it up in run defense. He seems pretty raw at this point, we better focus on Porter, Jenkins, Hanson, and Phil Adams.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    xraided Says:

    Mistic is talking about anyone that’s every objectively doubted TP… i did at some points based on what i saw. and i’ve said if he can turn those lame duck passes into zips on the money in the short term passing game, this kid will shine… obviously he’s doing that and i’m happy as a clam … nothing else matters at this point.

    but hey, preseason hasn’t started yet. we’ll see then. outlook good for the TP man
    ================================================

    Miss Tick will never accept that. Which is to say, good post!

  • realtruraider

    A whole lot of season ending injuries happening around the NFL, it seems early for this many.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    RaiderTater Says:
    Some of you seem to want to grab onto anything, and hold on for dear life, even though it’s straw.
    ===================================================

    Damn straight, skippy! Where you been the last ten years?

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    You guys are REALLY going to like Sio Moore. Dude was flying around out there yesterday. He looks like he belongs. You can’t drive on 55!!

  • realtruraider

    DHBEAST is balling out in Indianapolis, meanwhile his 1st round draft mates Crabtree/Maclin/ And perhaps Harvin or out for the season

  • realtruraider

    *are

  • RaiderTater

    0ak r8rs Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    @@@@@@@@

    This is exactly what I was taking about, all you smart @sses.
    =================
    You are incapable of posting without proving you’re a first class aaa-wwhole, aren’t you?
    Your sorry little incessant battles with everyone who questions your uninformed takes shows your small man syndrome.
    Grow up dude.

  • theghostronin79

    Seymour,

    You get to see Murray at all?

  • RaiderTater

    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.
    ——————
    See what I mean? The resident clueless troll gets all excited about a completed pass.
    Without checking, what are the chances you spent the whole weekend, up to now, well, actually, including now, on this blog, while the wife was out “with the girls”?
    Rhetorical question, Kell.
    We all pretty much know the answer.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.
    ===============================================

    I don’t know if anyone “hates” Terrel Pryor. I just think he could be one of the best WR’s in the league instead of a 3rd string Q. That’s all.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Dumbass Raider Tater.

  • RaiderTater

    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    DHBEAST is balling out in Indianapolis, meanwhile his 1st round draft mates Crabtree/Maclin/ And perhaps Harvin or out for the season
    ===========
    Your point?

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Seymour Bush Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.
    ===============================================

    I don’t know if anyone “hates” Terrel Pryor. I just think he could be one of the best WR’s in the league instead of a 3rd string Q. That’s all.
    ——————-
    You’re a bald faced liar. But carry on.

  • RaiderTater

    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Dumbass Raider Tater.
    —————-
    In other words, yes, you were here the whole weekend.
    and yes, the wife again got on with her life, while you prove you have none.
    and yes, yet again, you prove that small minds come up with small answers.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    theghostronin79 Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Seymour,

    You get to see Murray at all?
    =========================================

    Yeah. Bigger guy, good hands. But the guy they were focusing on was Rashad Jennings who is also a big back. Jennings was getting a bit of focus from the staff. I spoke to McFadden for a bit. That was kind of interesting knowing what I think of McFadden.

  • RaiderTater

    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Seymour Bush Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:27 pm

    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.
    ===============================================

    I don’t know if anyone “hates” Terrel Pryor. I just think he could be one of the best WR’s in the league instead of a 3rd string Q. That’s all.
    ——————-
    You’re a bald faced liar. But carry on.
    ===============
    LOL.
    Speaking of small minds.
    It’s “bold faced liar” not bald faced, you dumbass.

  • CDERaider

    Love to see Ausberry step it up and take #1 TE spot. He’s a beast with the ball in his hands.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    You dik heads have been quiet while trying to come up with adjustments to your Pryor hate. Having to consider the practices.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    KoolKell Says:
    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.
    ===================================================

    Asked Miss Tick to name names. Crickets. Can you do better?

  • realtruraider

    RaiderTater Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    DHBEAST is balling out in Indianapolis, meanwhile his 1st round draft mates Crabtree/Maclin/ And perhaps Harvin or out for the season
    ===========
    Your point?

    ——————————

    Isn’t it obvious Doc?

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Seymour Bush Says:
    You can’t drive on 55!!
    ====================================================

    That original? you gonna copyright it?

  • realtruraider

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    KoolKell Says:
    The Pryor haters are making 2nd half adjustments.
    ===================================================

    Asked Miss Tick to name names. Crickets. Can you do better?

    ———————————————–

    Maybe he should of said doubters? The list would be pretty damn long don’t you think?

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:31 pm

    Dumbass Raider Tater.

    KoolKell Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    You’re a bald faced liar. But carry on.
    ============================================

    You seem even more angry than usual ole raisin. What did the corner liquor store sell out of pertussin and Mickey’s forty ouncers? Is that combo your Sunday morning brunch?

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    Seymour Bush Says:
    You can’t drive on 55!!
    ====================================================

    That original? you gonna copyright it?
    =======================================

    Already copywritten!

  • RaiderTater

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:01 pm

    Lmao!!!! Pryor haters are feeling the heat, & it will only intensify from here.
    Going back to week 14 last season when Pryor ran scout for the first time all season, the more he plays the better he gets & the more his talent shows.

    Conversely the more Flynn plays the more ordinary he will also show to be.

    The team will also respond to Pryor & Allen is headed for a full blown qb controversy .

    Love that Davis jr is watching is dads final pick tear it up too. Allen won’t be able to run that ” he isn’t ready” crap this time around. Davis is putting Allen under pressure.

    Speaking of under pressure Flynn must be shidding bricks knowing he must be perfect in camp ‘ preseason to hold off Pryor. He will not be able to be perfect when preseason comes & QBS aren’t wearing red jerseys.

    That is when the chasm in tent between Pryor & Flynn will be easily evident.

    Football gods are smiling on us now & we have our own wave of the future qb ready to bust loose & punish the AFc west
    ——————-
    Such an ignorant post.
    Whoever shines in camp I’m totally behind.
    You made it clear you are a one trick pony.
    You put in all your chips on a gut shot straight draw.
    It’s Pryor or you are done.

    So ignorant.

    No way in hell you are a Raider fan. No damn way.
    Take your sorry agenda and shove it up your azz.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    RaiderTater Says:
    Your sorry little incessant battles with everyone who questions your uninformed takes shows your small man syndrome.
    ===================================================

    Actually, you’re the one who’s never posted an uncontentious comment.

  • ENGLANDRAIDER

    “Of interest was Al Saunders had Wilson over on one side of the field working with him..”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Fascinating that Sanders is still there.
    Probably still got his 700 page playbook.

  • RaiderTater

    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:32 pm
    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    DHBEAST is balling out in Indianapolis, meanwhile his 1st round draft mates Crabtree/Maclin/ And perhaps Harvin or out for the season
    ===========
    Your point?

    ——————————

    Isn’t it obvious Doc?
    ———–
    First off don’t insult me with that weak crap.
    And no, it’s not obvious.
    You can’t measure injuries.
    You’re indicating otherwise.
    But hey, considering your post, kind of obvious you can’t figure out the obvious.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    RaiderTater Says:
    LOL.
    Speaking of small minds.
    It’s “bold faced liar” not bald faced, you dumbass.
    ========================================================

    Your wrong, tater tot. Is that embarrassing?

  • RaiderTater

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    Your sorry little incessant battles with everyone who questions your uninformed takes shows your small man syndrome.
    ===================================================

    Actually, you’re the one who’s never posted an uncontentious comment.
    —————-
    ??
    Makes no sense.
    Yeah, I have no desire to post the obvious middle of the road take.
    What does that have to do with Oakr8r insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with him?

  • realtruraider

    First off don’t insult me with that weak crap.
    And no, it’s not obvious.
    You can’t measure injuries.
    You’re indicating otherwise.
    But hey, considering your post, kind of obvious you can’t figure out the obvious.

    ————————————-

    lol, must be that time of month huh Doc? Go outside and get some sun and smoke or drink one, you seem to be extra biatchy today………..maybe not liking the camp reports so far?

  • ENGLANDRAIDER

    CDERaider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    Love to see Ausberry step it up and take #1 TE spot. He’s a beast with the ball in his hands.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    None of these guys really seem to be stepping up to replace Myers.
    Early days though.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    realtruraider Says:
    Maybe he should of said doubters? The list would be pretty damn long don’t you think?
    =====================================================

    Absolutely. Critics, skeptics, doubters, I was and still am one. Just waiting on the ‘hater’ list. and I could name a couple.

  • RaiderTater

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    LOL.
    Speaking of small minds.
    It’s “bold faced liar” not bald faced, you dumbass.
    ========================================================

    Your wrong, tater tot. Is that embarrassing?
    =================
    Actually not.
    Common form is bold faced.
    Original form was bare faced which some switched to bald faced.

    Regardless, if you’re intent is to get in an on going pissing match, I’m all for it.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
    Lmao!!!! Pryor haters are feeling the heat, & it will only intensify from here.
    Going back to week 14 last season when Pryor ran scout for the first time all season, the more he plays the better he gets & the more his talent shows.

    Conversely the more Flynn plays the more ordinary he will also show to be.

    The team will also respond to Pryor & Allen is headed for a full blown qb controversy .

    Love that Davis jr is watching is dads final pick tear it up too. Allen won’t be able to run that ” he isn’t ready” crap this time around. Davis is putting Allen under pressure.

    Speaking of under pressure Flynn must be shidding bricks knowing he must be perfect in camp ‘ preseason to hold off Pryor. He will not be able to be perfect when preseason comes & QBS aren’t wearing red jerseys.

    That is when the chasm in tent between Pryor & Flynn will be easily evident.

    Football gods are smiling on us now & we have our own wave of the future qb ready to bust loose & punish the AFc west

    @@@@@@

    Can you name these “Pryor haters” plz? I don’t know of any here. I do know of some myopic sycophantic Pryor lovers on this board. Haven’t seen any haters tho. Seen haters of the org. Haters of Reggie. Haters of DA. Haters of Flynn. Haven’t seen any Pryor haters.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    RaiderTater Says:
    What does that have to do with Oakr8r insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with him?
    =====================================================

    Oak and I disagree all the time. No insults. Well, most of the time.

  • RaiderTater

    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:45 pm

    First off don’t insult me with that weak crap.
    And no, it’s not obvious.
    You can’t measure injuries.
    You’re indicating otherwise.
    But hey, considering your post, kind of obvious you can’t figure out the obvious.

    ————————————-

    lol, must be that time of month huh Doc? Go outside and get some sun and smoke or drink one, you seem to be extra biatchy today………..maybe not liking the camp reports so far?
    ==================
    I simply asked “your point?”
    You then started the insults.
    You confused?

  • realtruraider

    Actually not.
    Common form is bold faced.
    Original form was bare faced which some switched to bald faced.

    Regardless, if you’re intent is to get in an on going pissing match, I’m all for it.

    ——————————————

    Gotta love google!

  • realtruraider

    I simply asked “your point?”
    You then started the insults.
    You confused?

    ———————————–

    ummmm…..you insulted me first doc, you seem to be the one confused

  • RaiderTater

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:49 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    What does that have to do with Oakr8r insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with him?
    =====================================================

    Oak and I disagree all the time. No insults. Well, most of the time.
    ————-
    I see it all the time. Unprovoked.
    I don’t toss the first stone. Oak routinely does. So does Kell for that matter, which coincidentally you’ve not defended both, back to back, lol.
    No biggee.
    I can be amicable.
    I can stoop to others levels. both work for me, like I said, no biggee.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    RaiderTater Says:
    Regardless, if you’re intent is to get in an on going pissing match, I’m all for it.
    =====================================================

    Not at all. And you’re still wrong. Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. I’m ignorant of many things. Arrogance in an ignorant person is less tolerable.

  • RaiderTater

    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    I simply asked “your point?”
    You then started the insults.
    You confused?

    ———————————–

    ummmm…..you insulted me first doc, you seem to be the one confused
    ========
    “doc”
    He’s a racist piece of crap.
    Even alluding me to him is about as big an insult as you can toss out, IMO

  • xraided

    ignorance is bliss!

  • RaiderTater

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:52 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    Regardless, if you’re intent is to get in an on going pissing match, I’m all for it.
    =====================================================

    Not at all. And you’re still wrong. Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of. I’m ignorant of many things. Arrogance in an ignorant person is less tolerable.
    ===========
    ahhh, the veiled insult.
    It’s on. :)
    should be fun.

  • RaiderTater

    realtruraider Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Actually not.
    Common form is bold faced.
    Original form was bare faced which some switched to bald faced.

    Regardless, if you’re intent is to get in an on going pissing match, I’m all for it.

    ——————————————

    Gotta love google!
    ———
    I’m a bada-BING guy myself.

  • xraided

    Seymour what was the extent of Sio’s injury? say it aint so!!

  • 0ak r8rs

    RaiderTater Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:45 pm
    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    July 28th, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    RaiderTater Says:
    Your sorry little incessant battles with everyone who questions your uninformed takes shows your small man syndrome.
    ===================================================

    Actually, you’re the one who’s never posted an uncontentious comment.
    —————-
    ??
    Makes no sense.
    Yeah, I have no desire to post the obvious middle of the road take.
    What does that have to do with Oakr8r insulting everyone who doesn’t agree with him?

    @@@@@@@

    Whoa? How did I get into this? And no I don’t. I will debate. And I enjoy the debate. And sometimes I win and sometimes I lose and sometimes it doesn’t matter or whatever. But I don’t insult anyone that doesn’t agree w me. And I don’t name call unless pushed to it.

    In fact, Tater, you have attacked me on several occasions w name calling and degradation. I rarely name call, although I admit I have. And I certainly respect other people’s opinions, about 98% of the people on this board. In fact, you yourself have accused me of backtracking or being weak by agreeing w people when I see their point. How the hell is that insulting everyone I don’t agree with?

    You can’t have it both ways, you angry little man.