Part of the Bay Area News Group

Watson, Sims return but can’t finish practice, plus other Wednesday training camp notes

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Wednesday, August 7th, 2013 at 7:03 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Offensive tackle Menelik Watson and defensive tackle Pat Sims made it to the practice field Wednesday for the first time during training camp, but neither was around for the finish.

Watson, the second-round draft pick out of Florida State, made about 30 minutes before walking off with trainer Rod Martin after being re-injured in a position drill. He punched a bench in frustration while heading to the weight area then later found a seat outside the field house, his head down, looking at the ground.

Sims practiced for about 90 minutes before being led off, limping off the field.

After practice ended, Watson stopped for a moment to talk with reporters, his left lower leg in a compression sleeve for what he said was a calf injury.

“This is not the way I planned my first training camp,’’ Watson said. “I’ve not even took a snap yet. After making good strides in the spring, I wanted to get out there and get on the field.’’

Watson’s chances of being a rookie starter are getting more remote with every missed practice.

“He’s a guy that we’re counting on,’’ Allen said. “He’s a second round draft choice. He’s got a lot of talent, a lot of potential, but he’s got to be able to be out here. I think he’s as frustrated as any of us too, so it’s not from a lack of effort. But again, we’ll see. I’ll get with Rod and we’ll see where he’s at.”

Sims started practice wearing a wrap around his right thigh just above his knee. He felt good enough to remove it at one point, then shortly afterward was led off the field with a trainer.

Allen wouldn’t rule out Watson or Sims for Friday night’s game against Dallas, although it appears unlikely either would play. The same goes for wide receiver Jacoby Ford, who did not complete practice with an undisclosed injury.

– It probably won’t happen against Dallas, but Allen said the Raiders will have someone other than Jon Condo as the long-snapper at some point. The Raiders lost last year’s season opener after Condo was lost to a concussion, an unprepared Travis Goethel was forced into action, and poor snaps led to a blocked punt and another which Shane Lechler couldn’t get off

Stefen Wisniewski has done some long-snapping, and the Raiders are also working with special teams ace Josh Cribbs.

“At some point in the preseason we’re going to have someone other than Jon Condo snap in a live game situation,’’ Allen said.

– The following players have been ruled out of the Dallas game _ linebacker Miles Burris, linebacker D.J. Hayden, linebacker Kaluka Maiava, defensive end Lamarr Houston, linebacker Billy Boyko and defensive lineman Brandon Bair.

Defensive tackle Vance Walker missed practice on paternity leave and is questionable to face Dallas.

– Players that returned to practice included cornerbacks Tracy Porter and M ike Jenkins, running back Latavius Murray and wide receiver Connor Vernon, all of whom are expected to be available to face Dallas.

– Starters would play about a quarter against Dallas, Allen said, and that includes key veterans such as running back Darren McFadden and free safety Charles Woodson.

“I’ve seen it where guys don’t play in the preseason and I’ve seen it where guys do,’’ Allen said. “It’s my feeling that guys need to play.

– All four quarterbacks _ Matt Flynn, Terrelle Pryor, Matt McGloin and Tyler Wilson, will play, Allen said.

When assessing McGloin’s current spot at No. 3 on the depth chart ahead of Wilson, Allen said, “I’ve seen a smart composed guy that throws the ball accurately, makes good decisions, goes to the right place with the ball, he understands protections. And really that’s where he’s kind of separated himself from Tyler although Tyler’s been a lot better as he’s had a chance to sit back and watch a little bit more.’’

  • Share/Bookmark

[You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.]

  • the famous dr robert

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:19 pm
    chris ault ran awhole season on one formation for three years…wow.
    *********
    Happens all the time.

    The entire NFL used to run the pro formation every play all year.

    Many teams run wishbone, wing T, run and shoot, spread, etc. exclusively.

    Now u have formation and run ur entire play book out of it.

    Easy.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    manning just throw a flynn pass…quack quack

  • Al_is_theraiders

    keep making yourself look stupider by the minute…

  • Priesttj12

    Pryor’s issue was how he was used, and coached. You need reps in practice and games to develop muscle memory to play QB because you must stay balanced as you deliver the football. Your gate as you drop back must be consistent. How you plant your lead foot must be set so you can follow through and depending how you are biult you must stride throuh the throw. Pryor would basically throw with JUST his ARM with no hip action and balance. He would lean to the left as he released the ball, instead of upright. It cause the ball to drift and result in an insonsistent release. Now he stands upright with proper footwork and strides through the throw. Which propels the ball to the intended target. His entire body is in proper form. Giving him a consistent result. WHen he loses form or gets sloppy in his footwork the ball will sale on him. Or die and not turnover. It seems small and insignificant but the way the football is shaped you must use these mechanics to get the best results. If it were perfectly round sphere it would just be your release and hand position but it’s ovlong making it and issue if you don’t use proper mechanics.

  • the famous dr robert

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:21 pm
    everytime i think your football knowledge cant be worse you surprise everybody…lol..
    ********
    Are u talking to me?

    Cuz the pistol is ABSOLUTELY a formation.

    Actually a qb lining up in a particular spot, dictating where the other backs line up.

    If u wanna look stupid, try debating football 101 with me. It will be fun.

  • the famous dr robert

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    keep making yourself look stupider by the minute…
    ********
    That’s it? No rebuttal with some sort of correction?

    Name INE thing I said that isn’t true.

    I will run circles around u with formations and plays.

    Ur outta ur league.

  • RAIDERMAN99

    Things I’ll be looking for tmw night.

    Will the RAIDS be able to convert some 3rd downs and mount a sustained drive ?

    Will the RAIDS be able to score if and when they get into the red zone ?

    Last thing we need to see is a repeat of last season’s inability to get anything done offensively in the pre-season.

    Of course, we might fail to mount a drive or score, but still get the sense that this is a work in progress and things should get better.

    We just can not have an exhibition like the foreboding one in AZ last year. After that debacle, just about everyone (except for Tits and Krapp) knew we were in deep schit unless some drastic philosophical changes were made.

    Sure would be nice to actually score a few TD’s. Even if that doesn’t happen – give me a reason to think things might get better. Anything but repeated zone stretch runs stuffed for a loss that had no chance of success.

    It’s just the first exhibition, so things should be pretty vanilla – but we might get a sense of what OLSON has in mind down the line and whether it’ll actually have a shot at working.

    Besides that, it’s just about getting a glimpse of the new blood on the team. Even without DJ and Watson going, there will be plenty to look for there.

    And of course we’re all going to be on the edges of our seats watching round 1 of the MF/TP battle.

    FTY

  • the famous dr robert

    Ever heard the term “shotgun formation”.

    Pistol is simply a shorter shotgun.

    Get it?

    From that formation, u may line up ur backs in any number if places but u are still in the pistol formation.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    pryor never had too was way more athletic than anyone on the field in college…in the nfl he needs the fundamentals but has the skill to excel there too…

  • the famous dr robert

    Ok sorry. Saw u were not talking to me.

    Scratch it then.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    sure…go watch nevada run the same formation three years in a row…off coord…lol

  • 0ak r8rs

    1057. Good post. And thanks for not saying TITS so that I felt compelled to read it.

  • the famous dr robert

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:31 pm
    sure…go watch nevada run the same formation three years in a row…off coord…lol
    *******
    Ur saying the pistol isn’t a formation?

  • Al_is_theraiders

    not at nevada it is a whole offensive system. That is where the term “pistol” came from.

  • the famous dr robert

    @CorkOnTheNFL: #Raiders general manager Reggie McKenzie is at Candlestick Park tonight to scout Denver Broncos OR 49ers in advance of Super Bowl matchup.
    ******
    Ouch

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Purvis—

    E_______TGC__GT_________E
    ____________B
    ___________Q
    _________B___B

    ======================================================

    No, you need 7 on the line AND 5 with normally ineligible #’s.
    So you’d need another ineligible # on the line and back the RG(Barnes) 1 yd off the line.
    good diadram, tho.
    And if it is possible, and gaurd reported as eligible, the refs would probably call ‘Illegal formation’ anyway, and then after a 5 minute conference say, ‘OK, maybe not’.

    Like I said, just a thought experiment.

  • the famous dr robert

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:35 pm
    not at nevada it is a whole offensive system. That is where the term “pistol” came from.
    ********
    Lol.

    No. It’s an offensive system built around a base formation.

    The pistol refers to ONE thing and ONE thing only.

    Where the qb lines up.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    I’d say I meant ‘diagram’ and ‘guard’ but I’ve stated how I feel about blog gramarians and spell checkers. Hah!

  • Al_is_theraiders

    thanks its a system…they still run it.

  • the famous dr robert

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:36 pm
    Purvis—

    E_______TGC__GT_________E
    ____________B
    ___________Q
    _________B___B

    ======================================================

    No, you need 7 on the line AND 5 with normally ineligible #’s.
    So you’d need another ineligible # on the line and back the RG(Barnes) 1 yd off the line.
    good diadram, tho.
    And if it is possible, and gaurd reported as eligible, the refs would probably call ‘Illegal formation’ anyway, and then after a 5 minute conference say, ‘OK, maybe not’.

    Like I said, just a thought experiment.
    ********
    Look carefully. There are seven on the line.

    Barnes would be the “B” lined up off the line between the C and RG.

    Still next to the center but now “officially” a back and the next guy over would be the official guard.

  • 0ak r8rs

    It seems the pistol is considered both and offense and a formation. At least if this is correct. Wikipedia:

    The pistol offense is an American football formation and strategy developed by Michael Taylor and Tom Kaczkowski, and popularized by Chris Ault in 2005 while he was head coach at the University of Nevada. It is a hybrid of the traditional shotgun and single back offenses.[1] In the pistol offense, also commonly referred to as the “pistol formation”, the quarterback lines up four yards behind the center, which is much closer than the seven-yard setback in a traditional shotgun formation

  • Crawfish Joe

    DJ Johnny Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    I’m in the “preseason matters club” in the sense for the past two seasons what u saw is what we got in reg season. Can’t stop the run, special teams kick and punt coverage, receivers not catching balls…breakdowns.

    Final score matters not but performance does imo.

    =======================

    Depends on the team. But for the Raiders, case in point last preseason. What you saw is what we got. Tried to force feed a doomed scheme. This year I think DA is gonna go heavy on evaluation. At least the first half of preseason. With schemes being built around player personnel this season, performance will matter. And what I meant about depends on the team, if you have a lot of returners, sometimes you can try different looks and plays knowing that you already know your team pretty well. But in our case, we will be trying to figure it out. And we will.

  • RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit

    Steve Corkran ‏@CorkOnTheNFL 3m Reggie McKenzie wearing out the binoculars, while scouting 49ers-Broncos game. pic.twitter.com/1Nwu7U2ovB

  • the famous dr robert

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:39 pm
    thanks its a system…they still run it.
    ********
    They have a system.

    It’s based on a formation and plays run out of that formation.

    Think of the words. System is a set of things working together.

    Formation refers to how things are lined up (like a battle formation or with birds).

    Plays are what u run from that formation.

    Ur simply wrong about this. Sorry.

    “The Pistol Sysyem”? No.

    “The Pistol Formation”? Yes.

    “The Pistol Play”? No.

    The pistol is very simply a short shotgun. That’s all.

    U may decide that’s the only formation u want to use. Therefore ur offensive system would operate accordingly.

    Look it up dude.

  • RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit

    Steve Corkran ‏@CorkOnTheNFL 3m Reggie McKenzie wearing out the binoculars, while scouting 49ers-Broncos game. pic.twitter.com/1Nwu7U2ovB

    ————

    I told ya’ll.. Reggie gonna be looking for guys off the waiver wire.. 3rd in line.. and some of these good teams like Niners, Seattle, etc cant keep everyone.. they are stacked. No way Niners keep 13 of their draft picks.

  • the famous dr robert

    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:41 pm
    It seems the pistol is considered both and offense and a formation. At least if this is correct. Wikipedia:

    The pistol offense is an American football formation and strategy developed by Michael Taylor and Tom Kaczkowski, and popularized by Chris Ault in 2005 while he was head coach at the University of Nevada. It is a hybrid of the traditional shotgun and single back offenses.[1] In the pistol offense, also commonly referred to as the “pistol formation”, the quarterback lines up four yards behind the center, which is much closer than the seven-yard setback in a traditional shotgun formation
    ********
    Well the terminology can become interchangeable. It’s only descriptive verbiage anyway and there’s no official way.

    If u only run the pistol, u might well refer to it as ur offense.

    But teams can run pistol in addition to other formations.

    Let’s say a team ran pistol, pro, and spread.

    Ur offense would consist if all of that.

    Ur formation dictates where u line up.

    U run ur plays out if whatever formation u want to and most times can run any play out of any formation, within reason.

  • 0ak r8rs

    RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:45 pm
    Steve Corkran ‏@CorkOnTheNFL 3m Reggie McKenzie wearing out the binoculars, while scouting 49ers-Broncos game. pic.twitter.com/1Nwu7U2ovB

    ————

    I told ya’ll.. Reggie gonna be looking for guys off the waiver wire.. 3rd in line.. and some of these good teams like Niners, Seattle, etc cant keep everyone.. they are stacked. No way Niners keep 13 of their draft picks.

    @@@@@@@

    Good point. The 49ers r ridiculously stacked as it is, and add 13 picks? I can’t believe they didn’t trade up more. Other teams have similar issues. You think our cuts will be tough? Wait till you see the 49ers. Jeez.

  • 0ak r8rs

    The Famous Dr Robert Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:49 pm
    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:41 pm
    It seems the pistol is considered both and offense and a formation. At least if this is correct. Wikipedia:

    The pistol offense is an American football formation and strategy developed by Michael Taylor and Tom Kaczkowski, and popularized by Chris Ault in 2005 while he was head coach at the University of Nevada. It is a hybrid of the traditional shotgun and single back offenses.[1] In the pistol offense, also commonly referred to as the “pistol formation”, the quarterback lines up four yards behind the center, which is much closer than the seven-yard setback in a traditional shotgun formation
    ********
    Well the terminology can become interchangeable. It’s only descriptive verbiage anyway and there’s no official way.

    If u only run the pistol, u might well refer to it as ur offense.

    But teams can run pistol in addition to other formations.

    Let’s say a team ran pistol, pro, and spread.

    Ur offense would consist if all of that.

    Ur formation dictates where u line up.

    U run ur plays out if whatever formation u want to and most times can run any play out of any formation, within reason.

    @@@@@@

    Yea. That’s the point in trying to make. It’s almost interchangeable in terms of terminology. To me, it’s a formation that breeds an offensive system. You can’t have the system without the formation. So while the terminology might be muddled. It’s really chicken and egg. So basically, you have to ask yourself, when this was developed, how did it come about? Which makes more sense? Did they devise a formation and build an offense around it, or just develop plays for it for that matter, or did they create the formation to support the offensive scheme? The latter seems unlikely.

  • 0ak r8rs

    But for the Raiders, case in point last preseason. What you saw is what we got.

    @@@@@@@

    So friggin true. I remember watching the first two preseason games and saying to myself, “it’s just preseason, it’ll get better”. But it never did. In fact, offensively, it got worse and worse as the year went on.

  • Raider Riff

    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
    But for the Raiders, case in point last preseason. What you saw is what we got.

    @@@@@@@

    So friggin true. I remember watching the first two preseason games and saying to myself, “it’s just preseason, it’ll get better”. But it never did. In fact, offensively, it got worse and worse as the year went on.

    ———–

    Yep. All the signs were there.

    Palmer was playing well. Moved the ball well. But we had 3 TDs in the redzone lost due to drops.

    Defense looked soft.

    Run game was uninspiring.

    And so far, this offseason we have seen nothing but more of the same. The WR unit has been atrocious. There is no other way to sugar coat it. You practice how you play. If we cant catch the ball during non-contact drills, I dont know how any of you can convince yourselves that it’s going to be any different during the season.

    We cant stay healthy. And that is not because guys want to sit out camp. Too many new faces fighting for new jobs. They have every reason to make a good impression. Yet 20+ guys have been hurt. It wont get any better come regular season.

    Flynn hasnt looked sharp. Hasnt taken the reigns of the team. And Pryor has been spectacular at times, and wobbly at others.

    DMC has looked great, but that has always been the case. He will go off this year until he gets hurt.

    We are what we are.