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Watson, Sims return but can’t finish practice, plus other Wednesday training camp notes

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Wednesday, August 7th, 2013 at 7:03 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Offensive tackle Menelik Watson and defensive tackle Pat Sims made it to the practice field Wednesday for the first time during training camp, but neither was around for the finish.

Watson, the second-round draft pick out of Florida State, made about 30 minutes before walking off with trainer Rod Martin after being re-injured in a position drill. He punched a bench in frustration while heading to the weight area then later found a seat outside the field house, his head down, looking at the ground.

Sims practiced for about 90 minutes before being led off, limping off the field.

After practice ended, Watson stopped for a moment to talk with reporters, his left lower leg in a compression sleeve for what he said was a calf injury.

“This is not the way I planned my first training camp,’’ Watson said. “I’ve not even took a snap yet. After making good strides in the spring, I wanted to get out there and get on the field.’’

Watson’s chances of being a rookie starter are getting more remote with every missed practice.

“He’s a guy that we’re counting on,’’ Allen said. “He’s a second round draft choice. He’s got a lot of talent, a lot of potential, but he’s got to be able to be out here. I think he’s as frustrated as any of us too, so it’s not from a lack of effort. But again, we’ll see. I’ll get with Rod and we’ll see where he’s at.”

Sims started practice wearing a wrap around his right thigh just above his knee. He felt good enough to remove it at one point, then shortly afterward was led off the field with a trainer.

Allen wouldn’t rule out Watson or Sims for Friday night’s game against Dallas, although it appears unlikely either would play. The same goes for wide receiver Jacoby Ford, who did not complete practice with an undisclosed injury.

– It probably won’t happen against Dallas, but Allen said the Raiders will have someone other than Jon Condo as the long-snapper at some point. The Raiders lost last year’s season opener after Condo was lost to a concussion, an unprepared Travis Goethel was forced into action, and poor snaps led to a blocked punt and another which Shane Lechler couldn’t get off

Stefen Wisniewski has done some long-snapping, and the Raiders are also working with special teams ace Josh Cribbs.

“At some point in the preseason we’re going to have someone other than Jon Condo snap in a live game situation,’’ Allen said.

– The following players have been ruled out of the Dallas game _ linebacker Miles Burris, linebacker D.J. Hayden, linebacker Kaluka Maiava, defensive end Lamarr Houston, linebacker Billy Boyko and defensive lineman Brandon Bair.

Defensive tackle Vance Walker missed practice on paternity leave and is questionable to face Dallas.

– Players that returned to practice included cornerbacks Tracy Porter and M ike Jenkins, running back Latavius Murray and wide receiver Connor Vernon, all of whom are expected to be available to face Dallas.

– Starters would play about a quarter against Dallas, Allen said, and that includes key veterans such as running back Darren McFadden and free safety Charles Woodson.

“I’ve seen it where guys don’t play in the preseason and I’ve seen it where guys do,’’ Allen said. “It’s my feeling that guys need to play.

– All four quarterbacks _ Matt Flynn, Terrelle Pryor, Matt McGloin and Tyler Wilson, will play, Allen said.

When assessing McGloin’s current spot at No. 3 on the depth chart ahead of Wilson, Allen said, “I’ve seen a smart composed guy that throws the ball accurately, makes good decisions, goes to the right place with the ball, he understands protections. And really that’s where he’s kind of separated himself from Tyler although Tyler’s been a lot better as he’s had a chance to sit back and watch a little bit more.’’

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  • JLofty

    “Your darn right, Pryor will have inconsistent moments as he was virtually non exsistent last year with that coaching staff.”

    I don’t get that. I certainly had that feeling as well. Seemed like Palmer was reaching out to the youngster but was DiFlip?

    Our team’s (and owner) were legendary for our inability to develop QB’s. Why in today’s NFL would this group NOT want to develop or exploit a talented kid like Pryor?

    That is one of my biggest concerns with this staff. Less so with Olsen, as at least he pays lip service to the idea of using what you got, but it is not a very progressive group when you can’t “see” what talent brings to the table.

    Maybe “old-school-itis” will work still. Maybe not. I love smash-mouth more than most but you have to be actually smashing mouths for it to work…zbs isn’t that way.

  • willy91137

    I hope we get out of this game with little or no injuries and both quarterbacks play well

    and we completely dominate the cowgirls

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    at least palmer could get the ball in the endzone in between all the bone headed mistakes
    =====================================================

    He and Pryor ran for as many TD’s as Dmac last year.
    A couple athletic QB’s.

  • Raider Dell

    What am I missing

    Rules state center guards not eligible and you must have 6 players on the line of scrimmage. Your scenario would play out if Barnes was next to another guard and both tightends were next to each other covering up the other tackle. My understanding is the tightend covering up the tackle would be ineligible if the guard that Barnes is net to reports in to the ref as eligible.

  • JLofty

    Llama-man, a guard cannot be lined up 1 yrd back. That’s all. It’d be illeg formation.

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Trolls don’t know much about football.

  • JLofty

    JRJ, my hope took a serious smash to the mouth the day they said they were hiring Knapppy last year….

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Guards lining up off the Line.

    Trolls don’t know much about football. That’s not why they’re here.

  • willy91137

    He was drafted by Davis Jackson dn’t want anything to do with him until Mark Davis

    Mackenzie told DA put hem in their he was a scout quarterback all last year

    I think Olson wants to play Pryor I think he’s drawn up plays for him right now

    you know he can’t wait to put the pistol in this is a copycat league and Olsen wants to do some copying

  • Raider Riff

    Ya, cause Palmers inopportune ints had nothing to do with a few bums named Ford, DMo, DHB, and Meyers right?

    Stat watchers. SMH.

  • DutchRaider77

    1010.Raider Riff Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 5:19 pm
    Ya, cause Palmers inopportune ints had nothing to do with a few bums named Ford, DMo, DHB, and Meyers right?

    Stat watchers. SMH.

    _______________________________________________-

    I think you have to give a little credit to the AWESOME play calling of Knapp to be fair….

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    JLofty Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    “Your darn right, Pryor will have inconsistent moments as he was virtually non exsistent last year with that coaching staff.”

    I don’t get that. I certainly had that feeling as well. Seemed like Palmer was reaching out to the youngster but was DiFlip?

    Our team’s (and owner) were legendary for our inability to develop QB’s. Why in today’s NFL would this group NOT want to develop or exploit a talented kid like Pryor?

    That is one of my biggest concerns with this staff. Less so with Olsen, as at least he pays lip service to the idea of using what you got, but it is not a very progressive group when you can’t “see” what talent brings to the table.

    Maybe “old-school-itis” will work still. Maybe not. I love smash-mouth more than most but you have to be actually smashing mouths for it to work…zbs isn’t that way.
    ===============================================

    This is the point I have been making over and over. People call me a Pryor “hater”. I don’t hate Pryor, I just realize that modern coaches don’t have the time and energy to develop young Q’s at the expense of everyone else. They just don’t have the time. Look at the guys coming in: Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Stafford, Ryan, these guys come in ready to play. That’s the way it is now.

    If anyone is to blame, and I have said this over and over it’s Jim Tressell at Ohio State. You could tell Pryor had little if any coaching. As long as Pryor went out there and won games for OSU, Tressell let him do what he wanted, which caused both of their collegiate demises.

  • JLofty

    Idk about the Raiders and Pryor all off a sudden getting ready to run the Pistol. TP6 has never run it. Olsen has never run it, and the Queefs hired the creator/guru Chris Ault.
    It’s not THAT easy to just master….

  • JLofty

    Pryor’d be really good at it though I bet. Scary good.
    It was BLAST watching ColinK run it his four years at UNR. Man that kid throws lasers….

  • Raider Riff

    Dutch, u can’t whine about the OC when there are plays to be made and our guys routinely don’t execute.

    Just watch, this year will be no different if our WRs continue to suck. New OC, same WCO, same WRs. I’ll give u a hint, it ain’t scheme or the OC.

  • Raider Riff

    1012.

    Seymore is right. Blame Tressel. Pressure to win NOW means simple schemes and thus underdeveloped QBs.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Silverandblack666 Says:

    8 of the last 9 posts are trolls

    Later losers!

    SnBG being the only on who is not a troll in that thread!
    =====================================================

    And I’m not too sure about SnBG! Es no verdad?

    JK, SnBG.

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    the hawks installed the pistol in week around week 5 or 6 last year, they also went to lots of shotgun zone read after the season was already mid stream

    the niners did the same once smith went out

    washington did it in one off season

    it can be installed and look good quickly depending on the qb

    if they did it we can too, those ocs had no experience with running the pistol before

  • Raider Riff

    Both Tebow & Pryor were as good of HS QBs as there were.

    Neither got coaching they needed and they fell behind lessor prospects.

  • Mistic1 Tha Supavillain

    peace

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    KoolKell Says:

    Guards lining up off the Line.

    Trolls don’t know much about football. That’s not why they’re here.
    ====================================================

    Find the ruling, pootbutt. Or is it ‘common knowledge’?

    http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/positionofplayers
    Position of Players at Snap

  • RaidingTexas

    Willy91137 Says:

    I hope we get out of this game with little or no injuries and both quarterbacks play well

    ———————————

    I hope all four play well. I want to know that we are deep at the position.

  • Raider Riff

    Preseason is like the combine…

    Nothing to get excited about…but always a prime time to notice red flags.

  • Breaking_Black

    Chance Warmack doin work!

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    the hawks installed the pistol in week around week 5 or 6 last year, they also went to lots of shotgun zone read after the season was already mid stream

    the niners did the same once smith went out

    washington did it in one off season

    it can be installed and look good quickly depending on the qb

    if they did it we can too, those ocs had no experience with running the pistol before
    ==========================================

    The pistol and read option again, for the millionth time, is not an offense. It is a play. There are variations of that play but it is a play. And for the most part the Seattle, Whiner, Redskin offense run a normal offense.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    browns gonna surprise people…

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Raider Riff Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 5:36 pm

    Both Tebow & Pryor were as good of HS QBs as there were.

    Neither got coaching they needed and they fell behind lessor prospects.
    ===========================================

    Very good point. Teblow did develop fairly well under Urban Meyer. At least Teblow seemed to have an idea of what Meyer wanted him to do back there, and then what Mike McCoy wanted him to do in Dungver. Pryor on the other hand played a lot of “street ball”. And did it well. Problem is, it is one thing to do that against geology and criminal justice majors. It is entirely different to do it against other athletes as good as you are.

  • the famous dr robert

    Mistic1 Tha Supavillain Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 4:46 pm
    its good dell,

    i believe i have already made my point on the other fronts

    I have lost interest in engaging that sector of the board that wants to offend or disrespect groups of people
    *******
    Kell is wrong. Have u ever seen the trick play on a FG where the center and two guards line up over the ball and the rest of the unbalanced line lines up over by the hash?

    U can certainly have slot backs or wings lined up anywhere.

    Like this:

    ETT GCG E
    F W
    Q
    B

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Illegal formation
    Fewer than 7 players line up on the line of scrimmage (NFL/High School); more than four players in the backfield (NCAA only); eligible receivers fail to line up as the leftmost and rightmost players on the line in the NFL; or when five properly numbered ineligible players fail to line up on the line.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Derek Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 3:51 pm
    DA inspires no confidence in his ability as a coach, leader of men and/or the ability to properly evaluate talent. The guy is a clueless, pencil-necked geek who has no business being a head coach in the NFL. Spots McKenzie should be fired for hiring that clown. DA is a guy with no track record of success, who stumbled into a fool (spots), who was dumb enough to give him a 4 years 16 million dollar contract. If not for the money owed to him I’m sure Davis would have ordered spots to fire that scrub. Hue Jax re-established the brand and had the stadium sold out. Mark Davis now see’s a disaster coming so he reduced capacity. He knows the coach and the team will blow. TP is the only guy who can bring excitement back to the team and promote fan interest.

    @@@@@@

    Fortunately for us, it seems the actual players have a much better opinion of DA than you do.

  • the famous dr robert

    I haven’t been an OC so I never had say in formations but I think with more and more spread and the coming changes in rules, we might see a lot of funky stuff.

    Basically, the rule as I know it is that u must have a minimum of 7 on the line with only the ends eligible for passes.

    Splits are up to the linemen and certainly we have seen h backs line up directly behind or in between OL, not just on the wing or in the slot.

    So, purvis, ur idea of a G lining up set back is ok. He just wouldn’t be called a G anymore. He would be a back, lined up between two OL.

  • JLofty

    Yes SeymourBush, you have (and have had) a valid point there.
    But QBs don’t grow on trees and kids with Pryor’s size/speed/cannon don’t come along often. Esp with that kid’s attitude.
    Gotta have ‘em and making one works just as well as lucking or sucking into one…

  • Priesttj12

    This is the point I have been making over and over. People call me a Pryor “hater”. I don’t hate Pryor, I just realize that modern coaches don’t have the time and energy to develop young Q’s at the expense of everyone else. They just don’t have the time. Look at the guys coming in: Luck, RGIII, Wilson, Stafford, Ryan, these guys come in ready to play. That’s the way it is now.

    If anyone is to blame, and I have said this over and over it’s Jim Tressell at Ohio State. You could tell Pryor had little if any coaching. As long as Pryor went out there and won games for OSU, Tressell let him do what he wanted, which caused both of their collegiate demises.
    *-************************************************
    Bush You are an idiot an absolute idiot. You need to shut up because you have no idea what tyhe hell you’re talking about. Teams with the best developmental programs are the winning teams. Those that don’t suffer……….period

  • 0ak r8rs

    Al_is_theraiders Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 5:50 pm
    browns gonna surprise people…

    @@@@@@@

    You’re a Cowboy fan, not a Brown fan.

  • the famous dr robert

    So it looks like Kell is the one who doesn’t understand.

    No surprise.

  • JLofty

    I think Chris Ault would disagree with your assessment of his offense being “a play” but he has only been coaching football for 40 yrs and is in the collegiate football HOF so what would he know…

  • JLofty

    Go Raiders, look good, no injuries!!!

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    It started as a joke for making a guard eligible play for Barnes if he moved. Then I got curious.

    Where does any of this preclude a guard from lining up 1 yardback and being declared eligible?
    Kell, you can play too, but we’re way beyond your comprehension level at this point.

    NFL Rules
    A forward pass may be touched or caught by any eligible receiver. All members of the defensive team are eligible. Eligible receivers on the offensive team are players on either end of line (other than center, guard, or tackle) or players at least one yard behind the line at the snap. A T-formation quarterback is not eligible to receive a forward pass during a play from scrimmage.

    NFL Rules
    Position of Players at Snap

    Offensive team must have at least seven players on line.
    Offensive players, not on line, must be at least one yard back at snap.

    (Exception: player who takes snap.)
    No interior lineman may move abruptly after taking or simulating a three-point stance.
    No player of either team may enter neutral zone before snap.
    No player of offensive team may charge or move abruptly, after assuming set position, in such manner as to lead defense to believe snap has started. No player of the defensive team within one yard of the line of scrimmage may make an abrupt movement in an attempt to cause the offense to false start.
    If a player changes his eligibility, the Referee must alert the defensive captain after player has reported to him.
    All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward).
    After a shift or huddle all players on offensive team must come to an absolute stop for at least one second with no movement of hands, feet, head, or swaying of body.
    Quarterbacks can be called for a false start penalty (five yards) if their actions are judged to be an obvious attempt to draw an opponent offside.
    Offensive linemen are permitted to interlock legs.

    Wikipedia
    Illegal formation
    Fewer than 7 players line up on the line of scrimmage (NFL/High School); more than four players in the backfield (NCAA only); eligible receivers fail to line up as the leftmost and rightmost players on the line in the NFL; or when five properly numbered ineligible players fail to line up on the line.

  • Priesttj12

    That is specifically why OTA’s and minicamps exist and Practice Squads to develope talent. Even RG3 is being developed and taught by his position coaches. QB’s also use pro-coaches that they select outside of the normal program to tighten technigues. But player development is huge at this level. Anyone who has an iota of knowledge concerning the NFL knows that is the case. How do you think players get better from one year to the next? they get coached up by their position coach.

    But often times a -players will go to a trainer to get specific additional trainer on technigue and mechanics and strengthening.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    pistol is not a play thats like saying knapp runs zb play…

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Inquiring minds want to know!
    Pootbutts no longer have those.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Unlike Kooky, TJ does know football. Maybe he can help.

  • the famous dr robert

    The answer is yes. U could do it.

    Barnes would report as eligible (like any numbered lineman does like the fridge or sapp) and he would now be a Back.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist Says:
    August 8th, 2013 at 5:03 pm
    Raider Dell Says:
    The more reps the less mistakes and he will get better. We lost a full season as the staff of coaches groomed the top two QB’S and he had no teacher, other then Carson Palmer. Pryor said as much, as he hung on to every word and watched film and picked his brain, my hope is he picked the good parts, not the bad one’s.
    ======================================================

    Hopefully Palmer taught him to throw the inevitable Int.s at opportune times, because one of the main criticisms of Palmer was throwing them at the most inopportune times.

    @@@@@@@@

    That pretty much sums up Palmer’s entire career. Not just last year. You will see that continue this year. Take away all of Palmer’s choking game after game and he might actually be a HOF consideration (if he could play another 5 years, maybe). Instead, he’s nothing but a footnote in NFL QB history.

    I do believe Palmer cares tho and that w did spend time w Pryor. I hope the good stuff rubs off. Pryor seems to be too much of a competitor to be a choker like Palmer. Indoor expect choking to be Pryors issue.

  • Purvisman/Intrepid/Eternal Optimist

    Admittedly, you’d have a strange looking formation.

  • 0ak r8rs

    *i don’t expect choking to be Pryors issue.

  • the famous dr robert

    The pistol is a formation.

    The read option is a play (often) run from that formation.

  • Al_is_theraiders

    chris ault ran awhole season on one formation for three years…wow.

  • the famous dr robert

    Purvis—

    E_______TGC__GT_________E
    ____________B
    ___________Q
    _________B___B

  • Al_is_theraiders

    everytime i think your football knowledge cant be worse you surprise everybody…lol..