Part of the Bay Area News Group

Offensive, defensive lines a concern for Allen

By Steve Corkran
Saturday, August 17th, 2013 at 7:13 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Raiders coach Dennis Allen doesn’t have to be told there’s work to be done when it comes to his offensive line. The New Orleans Saints drove home that point by running around, past and over the Raiders time and again.
Allen said he isn’t sure what the solution is, other than to keep working with the players he has on his roster and keep an eye out for anyone that might provide an upgrade.
“We always have to look at what options are out there,” Allen said in a conference call Saturday night. “Anthony Munoz, he’s not out there right now.”
Munoz, of course, enjoyed a stellar career that culminated with his enshrinement into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Jammal Brown, Jared Gaither, Winston Justice and Sean Locklear are veteran options that remain on the free-agent market.
Things were unsettled for the Raiders offensive line from the outset of training camp. A torn triceps suffered by left offensive tackle Jared Veldheer – he is expected to miss three months or so – exacerbated the problem.
Allen and offensive line coach Tony Sparano tried Alex Barron at Veldheer’s spot against the Saints. Suffice, Barron has a ways to go before he gets the nod.
It wasn’t just Barron that struggled against the Saints. Allen said he takes a measure of solace knowing many of the mistakes made are correctable.
“The more looks that we can see, the better that we’re going to be prepared for those things when it comes to the regular season,” Allen said, in reference to the Saints blitzing and rushing from several angles. “Obviously, they brought a lot of pressure, and we’ve got to do a better job in the passing game of being able to execute when we do have pressure.”
Perhaps just as vexing for Allen is the lack of pressure generated by the Raiders defensive line.
“It’s a concern,” Allen said. “We’ve had two games where we really haven’t been able to get after the passer, specifically with four people. So, that’s something that we got to continue to look at.”
The Raiders played their first two exhibition games without starting tackles Pat Sims and Vance Walker.
Even so, the Raiders got in the fact of Saints quarterback Drew Brees on only one pass play regardless who they lined up Friday night.

– First-round draft pick D.J. Hayden has been cleared for contact, Allen said. Therefore, Hayden will be on the field Sunday and without any limitations for the first time since he almost died as a result of a ruptured vein last November,
“He’s anxious and excited about getting an opportunity to play this week,” Allen said.
Hayden practiced some the first three weeks of camp. However, he wore a red, non-contact jersey.

– Tight end David Ausberry (shoulder) likely won’t be back until the regular-season opener, Allen said. Ausberry suffered an injury in the first half at the end of a reception.
“Nobody has really separated themselves in that race,” Allen said of his tight ends. “We’re going to continue to watch them as we go through the rest of the preseason and see if anybody takes the lead.”

– Cornerback Tracy Porter (groin) is “doubtful” for this week, Allen said. Defensive tackle Brandon Bair (hamstring), linebacker Kevin Burnett (knee) and kicker Eddy Carmona (head) are day-to-day. Offensive lineman John Wetzel also hurt a knee. He likely will miss a “couple of weeks.”
Allen said Walker has the best shot of returning to practice within the next week among a trio that includes Sims and offensive lineman Menelik Watson. All three have missed most or all of camp.
He also said that receiver Juron Criner is “a little bit closer” to returning than fellow receiver Jacoby Ford.

– Rookie Brice Butler got some playing time against the Saints as a slot wide receiver. It sounds as if he can expect more time at the demanding position in the coming weeks.
“I did like some of the things I saw from him,” Allen said. “Also I want to see a little more of the consistency and not have some of those rookie mistakes.”

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  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    MistaBrown Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    You been telling me what a stud pro bowl DT he is for us. Still unemployed huh?
    ===========================================

    Just like you. The only difference is he’s not on food stamps like you. And then he doesn’t sell his food stamps for five cents on the dollar and put it in a meth pipe like you.

  • J Hill

    You didn’t see him in the preseason, or do you think suddenly he is going to get better once the season starts, and perform better against 1st units and PB LTs?

    ——————————————————————————-

    Bass is not an every down 4-3 defensive end.

    He’s a pass rushing specialist.

    I need to see him in the nickel defense against Indy before I say one way or the other if he can get it done.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    Seymour,
    I didn’t expect you to have a football related comeback for this. You never disappoint! Keep on tr0lling you are a blooper machine!

    haha
    _______

    Seymour Bush Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    MistaBrown Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:35 am

    You been telling me what a stud pro bowl DT he is for us. Still unemployed huh?
    ===========================================

    Just like you. The only difference is he’s not on food stamps like you. And then he doesn’t sell his food stamps for five cents on the dollar and put it in a meth pipe like you.

  • Marks hair

    moore has not got a single pressure what are you talking about? the coverage sack?

    Houston.. does not get the sacks

    walker..no sacks

    sims….

    projects.. not gonna make an impact this yr.

  • SnBG

    Marks Hair Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:41 am
    yes I’ve seen Walker. we’ve seen all of our guys play… none of them are pass rushers… cept old man carter.

    we had the same problem coming into last year.. a lot of us pointed it out and people called us chicken littles…

    and then we had the worst Sack total ever.. or the sky fell.. whichever you like
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    I still want to see all of the starters together. Our line last year projected to be pretty good. Seymour got old and Kelly was Kelly for us. That didn’t help the ends out much. Lets see how they do together before we judge. You may be right but you may be surprised.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    You and your puppet 666 love using the meth pipe blast.

    #kingofthetr0lls
    ________

    Seymour Bush Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:43 am

    And then he doesn’t sell his food stamps for five cents on the dollar and put it in a meth pipe like you.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    two weeks ago it was about Carter and Bass, now its all about Walker..really?Go up and read the title of this post. Clearly states the head coach has a concern about the DL and OL..me too!!
    ============================================

    You have to be concerned. Right now more with the Oline than Dline. We haven’t seen Lamar Houston, Pat Simms, and Vance Walker in games. We have seen Bilukidi, McGee, Crawford, Carter, and Jason Hunter. McGee, Crawford, and Hunter have all flashed a bit out there.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    Seymour when Im talking about your football bloopers you want to talk about food stamps & meth pipes.

    lmfao

  • nycraider

    SnBG Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:42 am
    Nycraider Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:39 am
    SnBG Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:37 am

    Carter is taking it easy right now, he may do real well.
    ——————-
    LOL.lets bring back Seymour then, ..are you saying Carter isnt trying?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    I’m saying it’s the preseason and Carter is playing it smart. Not uncommon for vets to do that.
    ———————-
    typically on a football field , you either give it your all or you can get killed. Didnt see much from carter last year either. Maybe he’s confused when the season starts

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    Oooooooooooooops
    ______

    Seymour Bush Says:
    June 5th, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Don’t worry Seymour. This newbie will go away.

  • alex7

    Hard to sign “gems’ when you’re having to slash salary.

    Great value signings?

    Streater, Criner, Wheeler, Roach, Goodson trade, Walker, Sims, drafting Moore, McGloin, CB Adams, CWood.

    All great value signings.

  • nycraider

    Seymour Bush Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:47 am
    two weeks ago it was about Carter and Bass, now its all about Walker..really?Go up and read the title of this post. Clearly states the head coach has a concern about the DL and OL..me too!!
    ============================================

    You have to be concerned. Right now more with the Oline than Dline. We haven’t seen Lamar Houston, Pat Simms, and Vance Walker in games. We have seen Bilukidi, McGee, Crawford, Carter, and Jason Hunter. McGee, Crawford, and Hunter have all flashed a bit out there.
    —————-
    I dont disagree that our Oline is a major concern, but our Dline was ranked the worst in the NFL for a reason. But lets hope reggie has a plan to reload when cuts are made. Thats my only hope.

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Marks hair Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:41 am

    yes I’ve seen Walker. we’ve seen all of our guys play… none of them are pass rushers… cept old man carter.

    we had the same problem coming into last year.. a lot of us pointed it out and people called us chicken littles…

    and then we had the worst Sack total ever.. or the sky fell.. whichever you like
    ==========================================

    Let’s be honest, it’s not like we have Banks, Taylor and Leonard Marshall as our pass rushers, so yes, you have to be concerned. But with our A guys out there you will see more of a rush than the nonexistent rush we have seen the last two games.

  • RaiderRetribution

    We might need to go to a 3-4 since we are not getting any pass rush with four DL.

    I don’t think Sims is even going to make the roster;

  • alex7

    Marks Hair.

    Vance Walker had multiple sacks as a backup last year.
    His pass rushing is what scouts like about him.

    Do your homework.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    You said Kelly & Seymour’s job was to rush the passer not stop the run. How did your pro bowler Seymour do the last 3 years? Where is he playing now?
    _______

    Seymour Bush Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:50 am

    Let’s be honest, it’s not like we have Banks, Taylor and Leonard Marshall as our pass rushers, so yes, you have to be concerned. But with our A guys out there you will see more of a rush than the nonexistent rush we have seen the last two games.

  • J Hill

    Bass has been after the QB in both games. Hasn’t looked great against the run.

    Did you really not see him all over the place after the QB last game?

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    Grown men are talking football Jamista Clown. I think a piece of meth ice hit the ground around the corner. You might want to go look…..

  • VanHeathen30

    LA does not want the Raiders…
    They proved it when we were there before.
    As long as a Davis is at the helm, this team will be relegated to Oakland…

  • http://raiders.com Seymour Bush

    J Hill Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Bass has been after the QB in both games. Hasn’t looked great against the run.

    Did you really not see him all over the place after the QB last game?
    =================================================

    He did a nice job chasing Seneca Wallace that resulted in either a sack or loss for Crawford. Chasing Wallace is not that easy.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    All you talk about are meth pipes & food stamps. Avoiding your “football” bloopers.
    ______

    Seymour Bush Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Grown men are talking football Jamista Clown. I think a piece of meth ice hit the ground around the corner. You might want to go look…..

  • nycraider

    Alex7 Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:48 am
    Hard to sign “gems’ when you’re having to slash salary.

    Great value signings?

    Streater, Criner, Wheeler, Roach, Goodson trade, Walker, Sims, drafting Moore, McGloin, CB Adams, CWood.

    All great value signings.
    ————————–
    signing Briesel and seymour isnt slashing salary by the way. Agreed he has sign some good backup type players.

  • Breaking_Black

    I like Houston. He’s a solid playmaker but there isn’t much explosive about him. Not on a consistent basis at least.

  • nycraider

    J Hill Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:51 am
    Bass has been after the QB in both games. Hasn’t looked great against the run.

    Did you really not see him all over the place after the QB last game?
    —————-
    are you seriously referencing the Cowboy game? wow..shocking..

  • willy91137

    draft defensive tackles in the first round Green Bay did 07

    JUSTIN HARRELL 16 overall pick he played two years he’s a free agent

    YES drafting players is really easy especially in the first round you can’t mess

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNoi_wwzbtQ Zymurge

    GG Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 6:01 am
    Love the Butler pick, wanted him, glad he got him, but why draft another one? Why pick up Deonte Williams? Why Leonhardt and Mastrud and all those other TEs?

    He’s bringing competition to every position! But, he has invested far too much into those BS positions instead of the OL/DL. Other teams brought in a bunch of OL UDFAs, and NTs and DEs. We spent more on skill position ones, and those OL/DL we did bring in weren’t the better graded ones.

    He’s again, like Al did towards the end, given scant regard, scant priority, to the lines. Picking up trash like Gurode, Barron, W.Smith for the vet FAs.

    Al/Reggie treating the lines like 3rd class priority.

    =====

    First, I disagree that Reggie is totally ignoring the lines. Second, you need to remember that he is not drafting for 2013, he is drafting for the next decade when picking best player available in the higher rounds. Third, the cap situation plays heavily into his strategy.

    Look at the top of the draft. Remember, Reggie wasn’t well armed in the upper rounds. Reports are that they targeted Hayden as the best long term prospect. They leveraged their high first to drop down to get him plus grabbed a second for — an offensive lineman. Watson, while being a project, was considered by many to be great value for the long haul in the mid 2nd. So really Reggie did use his best draft weapon, that high #1, to directly strengthen the OL.

    It’s not like he had a ton more seconds and thirds in his arsenal to keep getting more bonafide starters on the lines. Beyond the third round it’s all crapshooting anyway in terms of what you get.

    On that note, Reggie rolled the dice big time in the 6th and 7th to get players like McGee and Bass. If one sticks and turns into a serviceable player for a few seasons, that’s a win.

    Lastly, when you look at the cap situation you have to look at the going rates of the top 20 guys at their positions on the OL/DL in the league. They’re amongst the most expensive players in the game. With this year focused so heavily on cap relief, you can’t really target any of them in FA. Unlike the draft, they’ve even proven they are starters or not by this point, so a FA that is a legit starter gets paid like it. Next season, with the Raiders being the team with the most to spend in free agency will be the telling time. If Reggie goes out and gets at least one premier player on each line for large chunks of change, then you’ll see what his long term strategy is.

    Long story short, the lines are definitely where champions are built from. But they aren’t the only piece. In a long term strategy, they don’t have to be the first pieces of the puzzle, they just have to be there in the middle to gel and move on towards the big win.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    J Hill Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:39 am
    He is talking about drafting a pass rusher early- mid rounds. Players than can start or contribute immediately..

    ——————————————————————————–

    It think it has yet to set in for you how our DC is going to call the game.

    We are going to see 2 or 3 DL in most passing situations with guys like Bass, Moore, and Burris getting “activated”.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    1- that’s an assumption.
    2- bass has showed me nothing to assume he will succeed in any front. He needs time to develop and add more weight.
    3- Moore has good pass rushing skills for a LB, but he is no V Miller.

  • Breaking_Black

    Is there any way they can sell The Raiders to the commenters on this blog?
    We seem to agree on most personnel decisions, so that could work.

    Plus, after seeing that the Raiders are worth less than the jacksonville jaguars, Im sure we can afford it if we split evenly.

  • nycraider

    Alex7 Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:50 am
    Marks Hair.

    Vance Walker had multiple sacks as a backup last year.
    His pass rushing is what scouts like about him.
    ———————-
    key word Backup..very difficult to go from backup where no one game plans for you to “key pass rusher”. Certainly surprising people can dismiss our DL woes because a “back up” from last year has yet to take the field

  • VanHeathen30

    Has Melenik Watson participated in Camp at all…

  • RaiderRich510

    Las Vegas Raiders would be the way to go…..think about it….what player wouldnt want to play in Vega$?

  • RaiderRich510

    SELL MARK, NOW!!!!!!!

  • 0ak r8rs

    SnBG Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:20 am
    RaiderO, don’t you think it fair to give these draft picks time to develop before saying they are flops and bad picks?

    @@@@@@@@@

    Nah. 17 days of training camp is plenty. Get them all the fack out of here!

    That’s sarcasm, just in case that didn’t come across that way.

  • Breaking_Black

    RaiderRich510 Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 11:00 am
    Las Vegas Raiders would be the way to go…..think about it….what player wouldnt want to play in Vega$?

    We could bring back Javon Walker too!

  • SaintKaufman

    Good post Z!

  • nycraider

    Of course its too early to say Reggie draft is bad, BUT many of you said this years draft would produce 4-5 starters and right now it looks like 1. So isnt it fair to be concerned?

  • VanHeathen30

    Vegas, really, more like Laughlin…
    Mark needs SERIOUS

  • VanHeathen30

    help at the top of this organization…

  • J Hill

    Ok, O.

    You’re not impressed. Fine.

    I’m going to WAIT until I see it play out before I say what can’t be done.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Nycraider Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:53 am
    Alex7 Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:48 am
    Hard to sign “gems’ when you’re having to slash salary.

    Great value signings?

    Streater, Criner, Wheeler, Roach, Goodson trade, Walker, Sims, drafting Moore, McGloin, CB Adams, CWood.

    All great value signings.
    ————————–
    signing Briesel and seymour isnt slashing salary by the way. Agreed he has sign some good backup type players.

    @@@@@@

    I posted a link yesterday about Seymour. Signing him actually SAVED us cap room. It was a cost savings move, then we let him go. It’s complicated, and I don’t entirely understand “capology”. But what Reggie did w Seymour was deliberate and smart. Not a mistake.

  • RaiderRich510

    Sell the team to Tiger WOO!! didnt he wanna buy a while ago? oh yeah he’ll move em to L.A……..forget that idea….

  • J Hill

    BUT many of you said this years draft would produce 4-5 starters

    ——————————————————————————-

    I never saw anyone say that.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Zymurge Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:58 am
    GG Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 6:01 am
    Love the Butler pick, wanted him, glad he got him, but why draft another one? Why pick up Deonte Williams? Why Leonhardt and Mastrud and all those other TEs?

    He’s bringing competition to every position! But, he has invested far too much into those BS positions instead of the OL/DL. Other teams brought in a bunch of OL UDFAs, and NTs and DEs. We spent more on skill position ones, and those OL/DL we did bring in weren’t the better graded ones.

    He’s again, like Al did towards the end, given scant regard, scant priority, to the lines. Picking up trash like Gurode, Barron, W.Smith for the vet FAs.

    Al/Reggie treating the lines like 3rd class priority.

    =====

    First, I disagree that Reggie is totally ignoring the lines. Second, you need to remember that he is not drafting for 2013, he is drafting for the next decade when picking best player available in the higher rounds. Third, the cap situation plays heavily into his strategy.

    Look at the top of the draft. Remember, Reggie wasn’t well armed in the upper rounds. Reports are that they targeted Hayden as the best long term prospect. They leveraged their high first to drop down to get him plus grabbed a second for — an offensive lineman. Watson, while being a project, was considered by many to be great value for the long haul in the mid 2nd. So really Reggie did use his best draft weapon, that high #1, to directly strengthen the OL.

    It’s not like he had a ton more seconds and thirds in his arsenal to keep getting more bonafide starters on the lines. Beyond the third round it’s all crapshooting anyway in terms of what you get.

    On that note, Reggie rolled the dice big time in the 6th and 7th to get players like McGee and Bass. If one sticks and turns into a serviceable player for a few seasons, that’s a win.

    Lastly, when you look at the cap situation you have to look at the going rates of the top 20 guys at their positions on the OL/DL in the league. They’re amongst the most expensive players in the game. With this year focused so heavily on cap relief, you can’t really target any of them in FA. Unlike the draft, they’ve even proven they are starters or not by this point, so a FA that is a legit starter gets paid like it. Next season, with the Raiders being the team with the most to spend in free agency will be the telling time. If Reggie goes out and gets at least one premier player on each line for large chunks of change, then you’ll see what his long term strategy is.

    Long story short, the lines are definitely where champions are built from. But they aren’t the only piece. In a long term strategy, they don’t have to be the first pieces of the puzzle, they just have to be there in the middle to gel and move on towards the big win.

    @@@@@@@@@@@

    Welcome back, Zmurge. Always a breath of fresh sanity around here.

  • RaiderRich510
  • VanHeathen30

    2nd most important guy in the organization across the bay is the guy who asseses the ‘value/price’ of every player in the NFL…this way when they discuss FA’s or trades, they already have a set number they are willing to spend and refuse to go over it to sign anyone…it’s the NFL’s version of moneyball and it’ll be in every org before long.

  • willy91137

    Zymurge Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:58 am
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++
    What Reggie needs now is to trade one of his players to somebody that really wants him and get a first and second round pick or 2 seconds for
    next years draft is heavy as we go on with this rebuild sixth and seventh round players will not be on this team long low round draft picks like to come to teams like the Raiders are looking for talent and will keep players in the lower rounds for longer
    the patriots don’t keep their drafts players very long if they don’t produce
    if they need to fill a need they will get into free agency so they know exactly what they have you don’t take a big chance on free agents except for the money
    they have history were draft picks have no history

  • nycraider

    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 11:07 am
    Nycraider Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:53 am
    Alex7 Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 10:48 am
    Hard to sign “gems’ when you’re having to slash salary.

    Great value signings?

    Streater, Criner, Wheeler, Roach, Goodson trade, Walker, Sims, drafting Moore, McGloin, CB Adams, CWood.

    All great value signings.
    ————————–
    signing Briesel and seymour isnt slashing salary by the way. Agreed he has sign some good backup type players.

    @@@@@@

    I posted a link yesterday about Seymour. Signing him actually SAVED us cap room. It was a cost savings move, then we let him go. It’s complicated, and I don’t entirely understand “capology”. But what Reggie did w Seymour was deliberate and smart. Not a mistake.
    —————
    sorry i missed that link, would love to see it..if you happen to be able to post it again or direct me I would appreciate it.

  • http://www.raiders.com Raider O

    J Hill Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 11:06 am
    Ok, O.

    You’re not impressed. Fine.

    I’m going to WAIT until I see it play out before I say what can’t be done.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    I’m impressed with Bass and McGee. I called them great picks.
    I said we should have addressed the DL in early- mid rounds to get MORE talent that can CONTRIBUTE IMMEDIATELY while we develop these great picks.

  • 0ak r8rs

    RaiderRich510 Says:
    August 18th, 2013 at 11:09 am
    http://nfl.si.com/2013/08/10/first-down-fourth-down-carson-palmer-re-energizes-arizonas-offense/ LMAO!

    @@@@@@@

    Go away troll. We’ve seen enough.

  • Marks hair

    yeah I can’t wait till my backup defensive lineman gets back to our starting line.. I’m sure he will fix the pass rush. smh