Part of the Bay Area News Group

Raiders not yet feeling the draft

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, August 23rd, 2013 at 11:39 am in Oakland Raiders.

First off, it takes a few years to assess a draft and it’s way too early to draw any definite conclusions on how Reggie McKenzie has fared in terms of procuring rookie talent.

Considering the Raiders have more than $40 million tied up in dead money under the salary cap, you’d think it would be a haven for young talent to get the chance to start and flourish.

Not so.

When the Raiders host the Chicago Bears tonight at 7 p.m. at O.co Coliseum, there will in all probability be three starters from McKenzie drafts _ cornerback D.J. Hayden, defensive tackle Christo Bilukidi and strong side linebacker Sio Moore. A pair of undrafted free agents who made the roster in 2012, wide receiver Rod Streater and left guard Lucas Nix, will be starters on the offense.

When the season begins on Sept. 8, the plan is for Pat Sims to step in as a starting tackle in place of Bilukidi, and there’s a chance Tracy Porter will return from a groin injury in time to give Hayden more time to develop after a late start. That would leave one McKenzie/Allen starter on defense, along with Streater and presumably Nix on offense.

A thumbnail sketch of McKenzie’s draft picks:

2013

1/12 CB D.J. Hayden, Houston: We’ll get to learn a lot tonight against Chicago and there is no way to know how he’ll respond to contact. Considering where he was picked, he should be starting before it gets too deep into the season.

2/42 OT Menelik Watson, Florida State: Got an even later start than Hayden, and although he has only 19 games of college football experience, Watson will be thrown off the high dive and be forced to swim very soon. The Raiders are that thin up front.

3/66 LB Sio Moore, Connecticut: The coaching staff fell in love with Moore at the Senior Bowl. Penciled in as a starter the moment he was drafted. Now he has to live up to it.

4/112 QB Tyler Wilson, Arkansas: Looked like he could be best pure passer on the team during offseason work. Getting almost no work behind third-team undrafted free agent Matt McGloin. Will McKenzie cut his own fourth-round draft pick?

6/172 TE Nick Kasa, Colorado: Converted defensive lineman fell behind after missing offseason with a hamstring strain. Has size and skill set of an every-down tight end. Trying to sneak Kasa to the practice squad would be a gamble.

6/181 RB Latavius Murray, Central Florida: Currently out indefinitely after arthroscopic ankle surgery, Murray is an intriguing specimen but his propensity for injury in college has so far followed him in to the NFL.

6/184 TE Mychal Rivera, Tennessee: Looks as if he can be useful immediately as a pass receiving tight end, although perhaps not enough girth to play every down along the line. Has natural feel for passing game and getting open, with good hands.

6/205 DT Stacy McGee, Oklahoma: Watch McGee during blocking drills and it’s apparent why he was worth a gamble even though he had some personal conduct issues in college. Strong and explosive, although not ready to be in rotation as of yet.

7/209 WR Brice Butler, San Diego State: Big, fast and making a run at getting playing time as a rookie. One of the nice surprises of training camp.

7/233 DE David Bass, Missouri Western State: Had a big moment against New Orleans with sack of Seneca Wallace that resulted in a touchdown for undrafted free agent Ryan Robinson. Concerns are that he simply looks small and occasionally gets buried by tackles that outweigh him by 50 pounds

2012

3/95 G-T Tony Bergstrom, Utah: Competed with Nix at left guard, with Nix apparently getting the edge. Bergstrom, drafted when Raiders were a zone blocking team, could have a role as a swing player at guard and tackle.

4/129 LB Miles Burris, San Diego State: Had solid rookie season as a 15-game starter at strong side linebacker, but still hasn’t recovered from off-season knee surgery. Moore took his spot, and Burris, if he gets healthy will back up Nick Roach in the middle. Could open season on Physically Unable to Perform list and be out for nearly half the season, if he makes roster.

5/158 DL Jack Crawford, Penn State: Given his performance against New Orleans, an example why you need patience in assessing a draft. Made more of an impression in one series than he did all of last season as a raw athlete learning his craft.

5/168 WR Juron Criner, Arizona: Struggled to learn offensive system as a rookie, and then the Raiders put in an entirely new one for Year 2. Now is injured. Hard to give up on because the type of jump-and-catch receiver who can score in the red zone and that’s a trait the Raiders desperately need.

6/189 DT Christo Bilukidi, Georgia State: Looks as if Bilukidi will be in an interior rotation along with Vance Walker and Pat Sims.

7/230 LB Nathan Stupar, Penn State: Didn’t make 53-man roster out of training camp, later cut from practice squad.

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  • SnBG

    Some of you think the Raiders O looked bad last week did you see the Pats at Det. Pats O looked horrid. Point is it’s preseason so it’s hard for me to get to up or down about how our team performs.

  • lefty12

    It would be interesting to see the history,but I believe it is easier for rookies to have an impact in the D backfield than other positions.Didn’t GB start at least 1 rookie CB the year they won the SB?

  • RaiderRockstar

    Or perhaps all 4, for some conditional 7th round picks?

    ***

    @Judge

    don’t forget the cap space!

  • RaiderRockstar

    @Lefty12

    #134

    what about DMAC?

    you left him off your Kool-Aid list!

  • JLofty

    I heard Bungles were already having probs with Burfect….

  • Raider E

    No. This is different. That’s not fair and you know it. Before it was about his health. Now it’s about the art of playing CB in the NFL. There’s a serious learning curve for CB. That’s all I’m saying. And Id say that about Milliner or any other rookie CB.

    ————————————–

    So if it’s not one thing, it’s another?

    Not a good defense of the pessimistic accusation.

  • SnBG

    No. This is different. That’s not fair and you know it. Before it was about his health. Now it’s about the art of playing CB in the NFL. There’s a serious learning curve for CB. That’s all I’m saying. And Id say that about Milliner or any other rookie CB.
    llllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    Not fair of me? Was it fair to ignore the doctors about Hayden and stay locked in on you’re opinion that Hayden was a huge risk. Yes, CBs take a while to develop as but I think Hayden will do better than you think.

  • rediaR

    All I remember about Burfict in college is him faking injuries against Oregon, along with like 5 other guys on that defense.

  • Relentless

    I hope the team gets their ish together tonite.

  • 0ak r8rs

    RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 1:45 pm
    I dont care what BURFICT Combine numbers were.. turn on the tape. Its clear he was better then STUPAR.. got it??

    I wouldnt have been bring up this if we didnt take a LB in the 7th round. JERRY made a TOPIC on draft picks.. and I commented on it. Dont like it, keep it moving PERIOD

    @@@@@@@@

    Alright. First of all, you’re entitled to your opinion. So much so that you certainly don’t need me to say you’re entitled to your opinion. But you’re a Reggie draft choice basher, and that’s fine too, but in just defending NOT picking Burfict. And to call it a miss by Reggie is fine too, but I just was pointing out that of Reggie is an idiot for that miss, then so r 30 other GMs. And you’ve made the McGee/Burfict comparison at least half a dozen times, and I don’t think one has anything to do w the other. All I’m saying. It’s cool if you don’t agree w me? You obviously don’t. Chill.

  • RaiderRockstar

    I heard Bungles were already having probs with Burfect….

    ***

    @JLofty

    trade DMAC & Gaither to Cincy in exchange for BJGE, Burfict and a bucket of chicken!!

  • lefty12

    @ Rock-he hasn’t shown he deserves it.While the others haven’t either,2 are rookies and Ford has shown he can be a good player IF he can stay on the field.I try and go with the glass half full approach than the total pessimistic/hopeless approach many on here have.

  • willy91137

    does anybody remember how Charles Woodson played his first game with the Raiders

    it wasn’t hard to tell that he was going to be one hell of a player

    DJ Hayden could be like that then again he could be a bust

  • SnBG

    RaidersAllday_LtsGeTit Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 1:45 pm
    I dont care what BURFICT Combine numbers were.. turn on the tape. Its clear he was better then STUPAR.. got it??

    I wouldnt have been bring up this if we didnt take a LB in the 7th round. JERRY made a TOPIC on draft picks.. and I commented on it. Dont like it, keep it moving PERIOD
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    You’re entitled to you’re opinion but why are so against Reg? All GMs miss on some talent and hit on others. Big deal. BTW Burfict isn’t all that.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 1:55 pm
    No. This is different. That’s not fair and you know it. Before it was about his health. Now it’s about the art of playing CB in the NFL. There’s a serious learning curve for CB. That’s all I’m saying. And Id say that about Milliner or any other rookie CB.

    ————————————–

    So if it’s not one thing, it’s another?

    Not a good defense of the pessimistic accusation.

    @@@@@@

    Well it’s not really an accusation. I put it out there myself. Whatever. This board is insane sometimes. I defend Reggie or DA or Watson or Wilson and I’m an idiot. I say that it takes a while to learn the position of CB, a widely known and accepted theory btw, and I’m a hater.

    Well whatever.

    The medical thing has nothing to do w the rookie thing for me. Two separate issues to me. Believe me or not, idc.

    I hope he does great tn. Don’t see it happening. Not because he’s had health issues. But because he’s a rookie and he’s probably gonna go against Marshall.

  • ElkGRaider

    Almost as bad up here Elk. Almost…
    ———-

    Camping up there next weekend. Hopefully not too much property loss and its contained by then…

  • SnBG

    A trade for DMAC or Gaither isn’t going to happen. Reg is counting on DMC having a good year because of his upcoming contract talks. WHo’s going to take a chance on DMC right now anyway?

  • SnBG

    Willy’s right, we may be able to see if Hayden will be good pretty fast.

  • 0ak r8rs

    No. This is different. That’s not fair and you know it. Before it was about his health. Now it’s about the art of playing CB in the NFL. There’s a serious learning curve for CB. That’s all I’m saying. And Id say that about Milliner or any other rookie CB.
    llllllllllllllllllllllllllll
    Not fair of me? Was it fair to ignore the doctors about Hayden and stay locked in on you’re opinion that Hayden was a huge risk. Yes, CBs take a while to develop as but I think Hayden will do better than you think.

    @@@@@@

    Thanks for agreeing w me that CBs take a whole to develop. Not sure why you’re arguing w me. That’s exactly what I said. Or at least, that’s exactly what I was inferring.

  • Raider E

    I hope he does great tn. Don’t see it happen?

    ———————————–

    2 picks tonite for Hayden. Sorry to burden you with my optimism lol :)

  • 0ak r8rs

    SnBG Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:07 pm
    Willy’s right, we may be able to see if Hayden will be good pretty fast.

    @@@@@@@@

    Tonight means absolutely nothing as to whether Hayden will be a bust or an All Pro or somewhere in between. Tonight couldn’t be more meaningless as a measurement to gauge Hayden’s future as an NFL CB.

  • SnBG

    Thanks for agreeing w me that CBs take a whole to develop. Not sure why you’re arguing w me. That’s exactly what I said. Or at least, that’s exactly what I was inferring.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Yes they do but we disagree on how well Hayden will do. I think we will see his talent pretty quick.

  • Raider E

    Tonight means absolutely nothing as to whether Hayden will be a bust or an All Pro or somewhere in between. Tonight couldn’t be more meaningless as a measurement to gauge Hayden’s future as an NFL CB.

    ——————————

    This is ridiculous. Then why even play the game, Oak?
    It is not the say all, be all, but it does matter.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:11 pm
    I hope he does great tn. Don’t see it happen?

    ———————————–

    2 picks tonite for Hayden. Sorry to burden you with my optimism lol

    @@@@@@

    LMFAO. I’ll jump off the couch, spill my beer all over myself and hit my head on the ceiling from cheering so hard.

  • PlunkforHOF

    Hmmm no comment section for the new post?

  • ElkGRaider

    Tonight means absolutely nothing as to whether Hayden will be a bust or an All Pro or somewhere in between. Tonight couldn’t be more meaningless as a measurement to gauge Hayden’s future as an NFL CB.
    ————

    Not according to this crew. This will be the most analyzed preseason game ever played by a corner

  • SnBG

    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    SnBG Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:07 pm
    Willy’s right, we may be able to see if Hayden will be good pretty fast.

    @@@@@@@@

    Tonight means absolutely nothing as to whether Hayden will be a bust or an All Pro or somewhere in between. Tonight couldn’t be more meaningless as a measurement to gauge Hayden’s future as an NFL CB.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Can’t speak for Willy but I’m talking about the reg season and BTW, when I saw Ronnie Lott play in his first preseason game I thought, holly cow, that guy is something. I think yo can get an idea about someone in the preseason so it’s not totally meaningless.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:14 pm
    Tonight means absolutely nothing as to whether Hayden will be a bust or an All Pro or somewhere in between. Tonight couldn’t be more meaningless as a measurement to gauge Hayden’s future as an NFL CB.

    ——————————

    This is ridiculous. Then why even play the game, Oak?
    It is not the say all, be all, but it does matter.

    @@@@@@

    I’m saying to determine what Hayden will do for the rest of his career. You honestly don’t agree w me on that? You think tn, a preseason game, and Hayden’s first NFL action ever, can be used in anyway to see what is or isn’t gonna be in the future? Seriously?

    You have to be missing my point. I’m NOT bashing Hayden.

  • Raider E

    You have to be missing my point. I’m NOT bashing Hayden.

    ———————————————-

    Your missing my point. This is the most important game in Hayden’s career to this point.

  • 0ak r8rs

    SnBG Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:16 pm
    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    SnBG Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:07 pm
    Willy’s right, we may be able to see if Hayden will be good pretty fast.

    @@@@@@@@

    Tonight means absolutely nothing as to whether Hayden will be a bust or an All Pro or somewhere in between. Tonight couldn’t be more meaningless as a measurement to gauge Hayden’s future as an NFL CB.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Can’t speak for Willy but I’m talking about the reg season and BTW, when I saw Ronnie Lott play in his first preseason game I thought, holly cow, that guy is something. I think yo can get an idea about someone in the preseason so it’s not totally meaningless.

    @@@@@@

    Preseason is not TOTALLY meaningless. Using Hayden’s first preseason game as an indicator for what he will or won’t be in the future? A future that will hopefully be a dozen years? THAT’S meaningless.

    Christ. I feel like I’m trolling or something. I’m mitigating expectations and saying most CBs take a while to develop. That’s all. Let it go.

  • RaiderRetribution

    Ee will not cut Burris, he is protectrd under the pup, if he is not ready in 6 weeks we will simply IR him and have him 100% for next season and beyond.

    Kasa & Rivera both make the 53 man roster, unless one gets traded, then they’re on another 53 man roster, neither would survive waivers to reach the practice squad, and besides they are free agents when they are on a practice squad, they could with any team at any time.

    We’ll carry four TEs.

  • Gdog

    Lets hope the reason the entire team looked so out of sync last week was they all partied until 4 AM on the French Quarter.

    That performance was frightening… I cannot handle another 2 win season.

  • Raider E

    Why carry 4 TE’s that aren’t known for ST. Not gonna happen.

  • RaiderRetribution

    Could sign with any team when on practice squad.

  • Tezooo

    Hi everyone :)
    Will the starters get more playing time tonight you think?
    Go Raiders!!!

  • Raider E

    That performance was frightening… I cannot handle another 2 win season

    I thought the 2′s and 3′s played well.

  • SnBG

    I’m saying to determine what Hayden will do for the rest of his career. You honestly don’t agree w me on that? You think tn, a preseason game, and Hayden’s first NFL action ever, can be used in anyway to see what is or isn’t gonna be in the future? Seriously?

    You have to be missing my point. I’m NOT bashing Hayden.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Oak, in an earlier post you alluded to the fact that you might be a bit pessimistic. I think that’s the case here with Hayden.

  • RaiderRetribution

    Kasa and Rivera are locks at TE,
    It’s between Gordon & Mastrud for the blocking TE,

    Ausberry would be the 4th if healthy, probably the starter as well.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:23 pm
    You have to be missing my point. I’m NOT bashing Hayden.

    ———————————————-

    Your missing my point. This is the most important game in Hayden’s career to this point.

    @@@@@@@@

    It’s the ONLY game in Hayden’s career to his point. So, yea, I guess it’s the most important so far. But I’m not letting this game, or any one game for that matter, say he’s a bust or a pro bowler.

    And some of that, is because I know that of he does get burned, the Reggie haters will be out in full force. One should mitigate expectations on rookie cbs in their first preseason game. Positive or negative. Especially when it refers to their long term value.

    That’s all I’m saying.

  • Gdog

    Christ. I feel like I’m trolling or something. I’m mitigating expectations and saying most CBs take a while to develop. That’s all. Let it go.

    >>>>

    I was just thinking of the last top-notch CB to win a ring.

    Samuels maybe?

    Champ Bailey has nothing… Revis nothing.

    Is the position really that important anymore with the rules changes and zone defenses? Thats my biggest problem with the Hayden pick.

  • SnBG

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:25 pm
    Why carry 4 TE’s that aren’t known for ST. Not gonna happen.;
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    If we don’t carry 4 TEs I think Gordon is on his way out with the way Mastrud has played so far. There is no way that Reg doesn’t keep Aus, Kasa, Rivera and Mastrud at least until Aus comes back.

  • SnBG

    Gdog Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Christ. I feel like I’m trolling or something. I’m mitigating expectations and saying most CBs take a while to develop. That’s all. Let it go.

    >>>>

    I was just thinking of the last top-notch CB to win a ring.

    Samuels maybe?

    Champ Bailey has nothing… Revis nothing.

    Is the position really that important anymore with the rules changes and zone defenses? Thats my biggest problem with the Hayden pick.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Are you kidding? It’s a passing league. You cannot have to many CBs.

  • 0ak r8rs

    SnBG Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:27 pm
    I’m saying to determine what Hayden will do for the rest of his career. You honestly don’t agree w me on that? You think tn, a preseason game, and Hayden’s first NFL action ever, can be used in anyway to see what is or isn’t gonna be in the future? Seriously?

    You have to be missing my point. I’m NOT bashing Hayden.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Oak, in an earlier post you alluded to the fact that you might be a bit pessimistic. I think that’s the case here with Hayden.

    @@@@@@@@

    Not at all. Read my first post to E that started this. And if you’ve read my other posts about Hayden over the last few months, I’ve never said anything but good things about Hayden, as long as we weren’t talking about his health or being a risky pick.

    Because I don’t think he will do well tn or even most of this year for that matter doesn’t mean I don’t like the guy. And it doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s a good pick. Far from
    It.

    I actually believe in taking a body of work before I make a determination on a player. Same reason I haven’t jumped on the Flynn bandwagon or hatefest. I haven’t seen enough to make a determination.

    I certainly haven’t seen enough of Hayden. And still won’t have at the end of tn. Or next week. Or even by November probably. And neither will you.

  • Gdog

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    That performance was frightening… I cannot handle another 2 win season

    I thought the 2’s and 3’s played well.

    >>>

    Well ok. But how often are they going to be playing?

    I couldn’t believe how horrible Pryor looked passing after Flynn faceplanted.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    That performance was frightening… I cannot handle another 2 win season

    I thought the 2’s and 3’s played well.

    @@@@@@@

    The 2s and 3s have played well both weeks. Testament to our depth. Gotta start somewhere. Don’t have enough money or draft picks to compete the way we want to w the 1s yet. But the worn is turning.

  • 0ak r8rs

    Worm.

  • SnBG

    Because I don’t think he will do well tn or even most of this year for that matter doesn’t mean I don’t like the guy. And it doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s a good pick. Far from
    It.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    I’m skeptical of you’re opinion on this because in the past you haven’t said he was a good pick. You have stated, eloquently, I might add, that Hayden was a risky pick, not a good one.

  • willy91137

    0ak R8rs Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:35 pm
    Raider E Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:26 pm
    That performance was frightening… I cannot handle another 2 win season

    I thought the 2’s and 3’s played well.

    @@@@@@@

    The 2s and 3s have played well both weeks. Testament to our depth. Gotta start somewhere. Don’t have enough money or draft picks to compete the way we want to w the 1s yet. But the worn is turning.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    will be hard to take two or three game win in a season

    I tell you what I’d be the happiest man on this planet if we win half our games this year

  • Gdog

    SnBG Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    Gdog Says:
    August 23rd, 2013 at 2:30 pm
    Christ. I feel like I’m trolling or something. I’m mitigating expectations and saying most CBs take a while to develop. That’s all. Let it go.

    >>>>

    I was just thinking of the last top-notch CB to win a ring.

    Samuels maybe?

    Champ Bailey has nothing… Revis nothing.

    Is the position really that important anymore with the rules changes and zone defenses? Thats my biggest problem with the Hayden pick.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Are you kidding? It’s a passing league. You cannot have to many CBs.

    >>>>

    Can you even name the Balt CBs? Or the niners?

    Any of the Giants CBs from the year before?

  • willy91137

    What station is the game on tonight 102 something right I don’t know the point I forgot