221

ESPN: Watson to miss a month

Rookie tackle Menelik Watson will miss up to a month after having arthroscopic knee surgery, ESPN’s Adam Schefter reported in a tweet Thursday.

Watson missed almost all of training camp with a calf injury sustained during training in the offseason. After one padded practice, Watson was inserted at left tackle and played into the third quarter of the preseason finale against Seattle, playing well enough to earn the starting job.

He never made it to the opener, injuring his knee. Raiders coach Dennis Allen has been asked about Watson’s condition and declined to give specifics regarding how long Watson will be out.

Asked if he had any information on Watson Wednesday, Allen said, “Nothing other than he didn’t practice today.”

The Raiders added tackle Jack Cornell to the practice squad to replace Matt McCants, who was elevated to the 53-man roster when it was determined Watson would not play against Indianapolis.

Left tackle Jared Veldheer is on the short term injured reserve list after surgery to repair a torn left triceps and the earliest he can return is Nov. 3 against the Philadelphia Eagles.

  • Share/Bookmark

Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer

  • http://www.Raiders.com KoolKell

    Why the Hell do we have to hear everything through ESPN?

    Wtf can’t DA tell us Watson had surgery.

  • SnBG

    Whoknows Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    SnBG Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:11 am
    How about a little defensive help in Az for Palmer for that game. Bottom line is both Palmer and Pryor made some mistakes but Palmer scored more points than Pryor. At this point I don’t think Pryor could have scored that much with Fitz or Floyd on the Raiders roster.
    *******************************
    Once again, you ruin your own point by pointing out the fact that CP has playmakers on his team. Pointless.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    How so? I said even with Fitz and Floyd Pryor isn’t ready to fully use them and wouldn’t have scored as many points as Palmer did.

  • http://profootballtalk.com Raideraholic (AKAHairyBush)

    I knew that “tweaked” knee was going to be a problem.

  • LondonAl

    I’m looking for out our DB’s to haul in a few picks. How about Hayden getting his first of many as a Raider?

  • RaiderRockstar

    @DJG

    Palmer fumbled twice, losing 1 of them (turnover)

    Also threw an interception that was almost returned for a TD (pick six) guy was knocked out of bounds at the 1 yard line

    same old Carson. like somebody said yesterday … he played just well enough to lose

  • DJ Johnny

    DMAC hasn’t had a lot of room to run no doubt but he doesn’t seem to break those one on one tackles at all.

    He seems to go down way too easily.

    One of the hallmarks of A. Peterson is his ability to break those initial tackle attempts and then burst away.

    I know DMAC is no AP but he needs to break some tackles.

  • Whoknows

    SnBG Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:19 am
    Whoknows Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:14 am
    SnBG Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:11 am
    How about a little defensive help in Az for Palmer for that game. Bottom line is both Palmer and Pryor made some mistakes but Palmer scored more points than Pryor. At this point I don’t think Pryor could have scored that much with Fitz or Floyd on the Raiders roster.
    *******************************
    Once again, you ruin your own point by pointing out the fact that CP has playmakers on his team. Pointless.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    How so? I said even with Fitz and Floyd Pryor isn’t ready to fully use them and wouldn’t have scored as many points as Palmer did.
    *****************************************
    LIke this: Floyd and Fitz have the ability to get open, our receivers don’t.
    or like this: On that 1st int, who would you rather have going up for the ball Fitz or Streater?

  • http://profootballtalk.com Raideraholic (AKAHairyBush)

    Raiders best defensive player this week (at home vs Jaguars):
    SnBG – Vance Walker
    Hwnrdr – Nick Roach
    Whoknows – Nick Roach
    RNOraiderFan – Jason Hunter
    RaiderRockstar – Charles Woodson
    theghostronin79 – Pat Sims
    SilverNBlackPA – Vance Walker
    No Mas Diamante – DJ Hayden
    Inonewordraider – DJ Hayden
    REALLIONAIREB – Mike Jenkins
    ——————————
    Put me down for CWOOD, specifically he gets an int with a nice runback.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    O-line is FK’ng pitiful.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Here’s my thoughts on PFF metrics: *makes jerkoff motion*

    Football isn’t baseball which can be broken down into discrete groups. I’m a sabrhead when it comes to MLB and I appreciate the attempt to do the same for football, but I just don’t see how it can be done.

  • Gdog

    inonewordraider Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:18 am

    PFF:

    Palmer: +5.7
    Kelly: +1.6
    DHB: +.7

    Wheeler: -1.5
    Huff: -3.8

    ________
    owe boy, pff

    how did your boy Des Bryant do?

    >>>

    Oh crap… I thought he was injured.

    Another fine game by Reggies “trash.”

    +3.3 (team high)

    The cure for this embarrassment is to get rid of PFF.

    Right??

  • SnBG

    @SnBG

    how about a little help for Pryor from Kevin Burnett & Tracy Porter in Week 1 ??

    those guys are vets. no excuse.

    DJ Hayden gave up some completions, but he’s a rookie in 1st ever NFL game.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Fair point but Porter and Burnett picked their game up in the second half. Burnett made a spectacular play to knock a ball down and Porter and Jennings didn’t allow a long past. We know that Palmer has a suspect OLine so he’s going to get beat up. Pryor is suppose to be a runner and yet the Colts didn’t allow him to run past the LOS in that last drive and he made 2 costly mistakes that killed any chance to win.

  • Gdog

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:23 am

    Here’s my thoughts on PFF metrics: *makes jerkoff motion*

    Football isn’t baseball which can be broken down into discrete groups. I’m a sabrhead when it comes to MLB and I appreciate the attempt to do the same for football, but I just don’t see how it can be done.

    >>>>

    Its actually pretty simple… I could do it just by using the “coaches tape.” You evaluate every play and every player… if he does something good you give him a positive mark, if its something bad, a negative. If you aren’t sure, you don’t give them anything.

    Of course there is subjectivity to it, but I challenge you to provide something better to evaluate performance.

    Most people here that don’t like PFF simply can’t stand the results. Its like Republicans that hate polling when it is bad. They attack anything not Rasmussen.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    To expand a little more: Sabrmetrics are by and large the result of YEARS of research and advanced statistcal calculations that are continually refined.

    PFF is a bunch of guys watching tape. Which is valuable! But I can do that too.

  • Kirk

    Reece should be our starting running back.

    In other news Seymour is not practicing this week.

  • LondonAl

    Forget all this Palmer talk. He’s gone and aint comming back at least not as a Raider. More Pryor/Flynn/McGloin and Wilson chat!

  • inonewordraider

    Oh crap… I thought he was injured.

    Another fine game by Reggies “trash.”

    +3.3 (team high)

    The cure for this embarrassment is to get rid of PFF.

    Right??

    _________
    considering what Bryant cost

    would anyone prefer having Bryant over walker inside or hunter outside?

    I wouldn’t take him over walker at this point, I would over hunter but for the cost probably not…

  • SnBG

    *****************************************
    LIke this: Floyd and Fitz have the ability to get open, our receivers don’t.
    or like this: On that 1st int, who would you rather have going up for the ball Fitz or Streater?
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    What about that sack in the final minute of the game. Could Fitz and Floyd have helped with that? Of course I would take Fitz or Floyd but Streater can go up for the ball well enough. That was just a dumb throw by Pryor.

  • JLofty

    You also have to consider what WE would have had to pay those guys you are showing pff metrics for.
    Kelly’s a food player but not at top 3 salary. Nevermind his ‘tude.
    Same with Des Bryant. We didn’t HAVE $35 mil to give him.
    You can go down the list.
    Palmer Huff Wheeler etc.
    I have no prob with any of those moves.

    Not developing Pryor was stupid…

  • Kirk

    Palmer is the master of the pick 6.

    He has turned it into an art form.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Of course there is subjectivity to it, but I challenge you to provide something better to evaluate performance.

    ++++++++++

    And that’s the goal of sabrmetrics, to get subjectivity out of the game…for instance, errors are entirely based on the subjective opinion of a scorer, which can go on to effect things like ERA. Also, a pitcher can induce a ton of groundballs, but if his defense sucks then that can jack up his ERA. Which is where advanced pitching metrics like ERA+ and FIP come into play…it gets rid of all that.

    What PFF is doing is valuable, but still subjective, so they’re less useful to me. I can form my own subjective opinions based on tape study, thanks.

  • Gdog

    SnBG Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    @SnBG

    how about a little help for Pryor from Kevin Burnett & Tracy Porter in Week 1 ??

    those guys are vets. no excuse.

    DJ Hayden gave up some completions, but he’s a rookie in 1st ever NFL game.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Fair point but Porter and Burnett picked their game up in the second half. Burnett made a spectacular play to knock a ball down and Porter and Jennings didn’t allow a long past. We know that Palmer has a suspect OLine so he’s going to get beat up. Pryor is suppose to be a runner and yet the Colts didn’t allow him to run past the LOS in that last drive and he made 2 costly mistakes that killed any chance to win.

    >>>>

    Porter had PERFECT coverage on those two first half passes. Just that Luck made a more perfect pass.

    I can deal with forcing QB’s to make perfect passes every game.

  • Gdog

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:32 am

    Of course there is subjectivity to it, but I challenge you to provide something better to evaluate performance.

    ++++++++++

    And that’s the goal of sabrmetrics, to get subjectivity out of the game…for instance, errors are entirely based on the subjective opinion of a scorer, which can go on to effect things like ERA. Also, a pitcher can induce a ton of groundballs, but if his defense sucks then that can jack up his ERA. Which is where advanced pitching metrics like ERA+ and FIP come into play…it gets rid of all that.

    What PFF is doing is valuable, but still subjective, so they’re less useful to me. I can form my own subjective opinions based on tape study, thanks.

    >>>

    Yea sure…

    I bet you don’t even subscribe to the “coaches film.”

  • SnBG

    It’s true our Oline isn’t great but they did better than we thought they would. If Warson and Hulk where healthy they might have been better.

  • inonewordraider

    Porter had PERFECT coverage on those two first half passes. Just that Luck made a more perfect pass.

    I can deal with forcing QB’s to make perfect passes every game.

    ________________
    but I bet he got bad marks per pff right? so you’re saying pff isn’t accurate?

  • Gdog

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:28 am

    To expand a little more: Sabrmetrics are by and large the result of YEARS of research and advanced statistcal calculations that are continually refined.

    PFF is a bunch of guys watching tape. Which is valuable! But I can do that too.

    >>>

    Oh sure… you do THIS with every play:

    1) Why do we grade?

    The goal of our detailed grading process is to gauge how players execute their roles over the course of a game by looking at the performance of each individual on each play. We look beyond the stat sheet at game footage to try to gain an understanding of how well a lineman is blocking on a given play, how much space and help a runner is being given on a play, how effectively a pass rusher brings pressure or how well a defender covers a receiver.
    .
    We collect lots of extra statistics such as yards after catch, yards after contact, missed tackles, dropped passes etc., but our real focus is on grading individual performance on each play. Did an offensive lineman seal his block to spring the runner through a hole? Did a defensive lineman beat his block to force a runner to change the play direction in the backfield? Was the crucial third-down completion due to the quarterback beating the coverage or a breakdown in coverage?
    .
    We examine not just the statistical result of a play, but the context of that statistic. The defensive tackle may have made a tackle on a play, but if it was 3rd-and-5 and he got blown 4 yards off of the ball to make the tackle after a 6-yard gain, that’s not a good play.
    .
    This allows us to present a unique set of statistics for individual player performance in each game. We present base statistics alongside more advanced statistics together with a grade for every player. The marks are presented as overall composite grades but are also broken down in a number of key areas:.

    Offense
    • Running
    • Passing and receiving
    • Pass protection
    • Run blocking
    • Screen blocking

    Defense
    • Run defense
    • Pass rushing
    • Pass coverage
    .

    .

    2) What Do We Grade?

    Throughout the course of the season (regular season and playoffs) we grade every single offensive, defensive and special teams snap. We log data such as the point of attack of a running play, the location a pass was thrown and hang time of kicks and punts before moving on to the player-performance analysis.
    .
    A typical line of analysis will describe an offensive and defensive player being graded for a one-on-one confrontation. This will include their names and grades as well as a comment describing the play. So for example, a match-up between a right guard and left defensive tackle could result in the following comment:
    .
    “The RG drove the DLT down the line of scrimmage opening a wide hole off his outside hip for the running back (##) to pick up the first down on 3rd & 3.”
    .
    This type of notation serves a few purposes. First, it captures detail for grading, a concise comment that can be referenced back to individual players for further analysis at a later date. Also, due to each play having a unique ID, it also creates a clear and accessible audit trail for all analysis.
    .
    .

    3) How Do We Grade?

    Each grade given is between +2 and -2, with 0.5 increments and an average of 0. A positive intervention in the game rates a positive grading and vice-versa. Very (very) few performances draw a +/-2 rating. In fact, the distribution of non-zero grades is like this:
    .
    +2.0 0.01percent
    +1.5 0.3percent
    +1.0 16percent
    +0.5 37percent (unbalanced because of the way WRs and HBs are rated)
    -0.5 24percent
    -1.0 22percent
    -1.5 0.5percent
    -2.0 0.01percent

    .

    The grading takes into account many things and effectively brings “intelligence” to raw statistics.
    .
    For example, a raw stat might tell you a tackle conceded a sack. However, how long did he protect the QB for before he gave it up? Additionally, when did he give it up? If it was within the last two minutes on a potentially game-tying drive, it may be rather more important than when his team is running out the clock in a 30-point blowout.
    .
    The average grade, or what we would typically expect of the average player, is therefore defined as zero. In reality, the vast majority of grades on each individual play are zero and what we are grading are the exceptions to this.
    .
    A seal block on the backside of a play, for example, is something that it is reasonable to expect to be completed successfully. Consequently, it receives a zero grade, whereas the differentiation between a good and poor block is a heavy downgrade for a failed seal block to the backside of a running play.
    .

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Yea sure…

    I bet you don’t even subscribe to the “coaches film.”

    ++++++++++

    Try again. I do. It’s a blast.

  • http://profootballtalk.com Raideraholic (AKAHairyBush)

    For those of you bad mouthing Porter I will say that his coverage was pretty tight and some of those passes thrown by Luck to Wayne were perfect.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    What really happened is Pryor eluded sacks with his athleticism. If you want to give the O-line credit for Pryor running for his life thats your prerogative.
    __________

    SnBG Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:34 am

    It’s true our Oline isn’t great but they did better than we thought they would. If Warson and Hulk where healthy they might have been better.

  • RaiderRockstar

    We know that Palmer has a suspect OLine so he’s going to get beat up.

    ***

    @SnBG

    what about ours? I don’t think Palmer would feel more comfortable behind Pryor’s line. Do you?

  • Gdog

    inonewordraider Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Porter had PERFECT coverage on those two first half passes. Just that Luck made a more perfect pass.

    I can deal with forcing QB’s to make perfect passes every game.

    ________________
    but I bet he got bad marks per pff right? so you’re saying pff isn’t accurate?

    >>>>

    Not really. -.6

    Thats an average game.

    I bet you thought it would be -6 didn’t you?

  • Gdog

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:38 am

    We know that Palmer has a suspect OLine so he’s going to get beat up.

    ***

    @SnBG

    what about ours? I don’t think Palmer would feel more comfortable behind Pryor’s line. Do you?

    >>>

    Didn’t Ariz lose their stud guard?

  • Marks hair

    we would have lost by 20 with palmer at qb last week.

  • SnBG

    Raideraholic (AKAHairyBush) Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:36 am
    For those of you bad mouthing Porter I will say that his coverage was pretty tight and some of those passes thrown by Luck to Wayne were perfect.
    ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
    Agree with this. I also like the fact that QBs will have to play their best against our secondary and not think it will be a piece of cake playing against our D.

  • Gdog

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:35 am

    Yea sure…

    I bet you don’t even subscribe to the “coaches film.”

    ++++++++++

    Try again. I do. It’s a blast.

    >>>

    Ok.. props to that, and I agree.

    But do you evaluate every play and every player?

    Please dude…. check yourself.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Gdog,

    You have to be willfully missing my point. Let me repeat. 1) PFF is valuable. They’re just not as reliable as advanced baseball stats. 2) That’s because they’re still ultimately just assigning values based on subjective opinions.

    SIERA is probably my favorite advanced pitching stat. You wanna see how it’s calculated? Here’s a sample (copied and pasted from something done in table form so it’s gonna look wonky but you’ll get the idea):

    Variable

    bpSIERA coefficient

    fgSIERA coefficient

    (SO/PA)

    -16.986

    -15.518

    (SO/PA)^2

    7.653

    9.146

    (BB/PA)

    11.434

    8.648

    (BB/PA)^2

    -

    27.252

    (netGB/PA)

    -1.858

    -2.298

    +/-(netGB/PA)^2

    -6.664

    -4.920

    (SO/PA)*(BB/PA)

    -

    -4.036

    (SO/PA)*(netGB/PA)

    10.130

    5.155

    (BB/PA)*(netGB/PA)

    -5.195

    4.546

    Constant

    6.145

    5.534

    Year coefficients (versus 2010)

    -

    From -0.020 to +0.289

    % innings as SP

    -

    0.367

    Baseball teams employ guys with Masters degrees in statistics to develop their own sabrmetrics. This is a FAR CRY from what PFF does.

    If you can’t get that at this point, I don’t know what else to say.

  • Gdog

    Marks hair Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    we would have lost by 20 with palmer at qb last week.

    >>>

    PDS talk again (Palmer Derangement Syndrome.)

    This stuff is just moronic.

    I am out… the herd of idiots are here…

  • SnBG

    BBL folks. Fun debate this morning.

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Ok.. props to that, and I agree.

    But do you evaluate every play and every player?

    Please dude…. check yourself.

    +++++++++++++

    I never claimed to. I WISH I had the time. But with a job and a wife and a young daughter…ain’t happenin’.

  • Gdog

    Baseball teams employ guys with Masters degrees in statistics to develop their own sabrmetrics. This is a FAR CRY from what PFF does.

    If you can’t get that at this point, I don’t know what else to say.

    >>>>

    What is out there that is BETTER.

    You watching the coaches film? Please. You are so full of sheet your face is brown.

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    How do we know this?
    ______

    Marks Hair Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:39 am

    we would have lost by 20 with palmer at qb last week.

  • Gdog

    SilverNBlackPA Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:42 am

    Ok.. props to that, and I agree.

    But do you evaluate every play and every player?

    Please dude…. check yourself.

    +++++++++++++

    I never claimed to. I WISH I had the time. But with a job and a wife and a young daughter…ain’t happenin’.

    >>>>

    Well f_ucking DUH!

    JFC, no kidding… thats why it is so flipping VALUABLE you drooling frigging moron.

    For 26 bucks I pay someone to do something I would love to do myself but don’t have the time nor the incentive.

  • Marks hair

    later kiddo

  • RaiderRockstar

    Didn’t Ariz lose their stud guard?

    ***

    Isn’t Oakland down to it’s 3rd option at LT, who is actually our RT that hasn’t played LT in 4 years and is on a 1-year vet minimum deal because nobody else wanted him in FA ??

    and our 2nd option at LG, since Bergs went to I.R. and Nix was an undrafted rookie FA last year

    and Brisiel who is Reggie’s biggest FA blunder to date

    and Pashos who was just signed off the street last week?

    I’m sure Pryor would take Palmer’s OL in Arizona over this group of ragtag misfits & scrubs, Wiz being the lone exception (of course)

  • SilverNBlackPA

    Well f_ucking DUH!

    JFC, no kidding… thats why it is so flipping VALUABLE you drooling frigging moron.

    For 26 bucks I pay someone to do something I would love to do myself but don’t have the time nor the incentive.

    ++++++++++++++++

    Yeesh, calm down with the insults. I haven’t said one cross word to you.

    I can’t do sabrmetrics. I CAN watch film and evaluate.

    If I have an opinion about a baseball player, I can check it against objective, non-biased stats to see if I’m missing something.

    If I have an opinion about a football player and I don’t have time to watch the tape myself, I can look at PFF and get one guy’s opinion. It’s an opinion with a mathematical value assigned to make it easier to digest/interpret but still…one subjective take.

    There’s a HUGE difference in the level of trust you can place in both.

  • Marks hair

    simple, Palmer wouldn’t have scored until midway through the 3rd quarter we would have been down huge and the defense would have got tired.. then, Palmer with throw a pick 6 or take a classic sack fumble and break the backs and hearts of his team..

  • RaiderRockstar

    Gdog with name calling again today.. ran out of material, it seems

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    Missfits & scrubs?
    All I’ve heard in here since sunday is how remarkable the O-line played. They bust open huge holes for DMAC and Pryor was seen eating a sandwich while surveying the field.

    Cant understand why the Indy D-lineman said he felt like he ran 5.3 miles, oh well! Our O-line is SOLID!
    ___________

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:47 am

    I’m sure Pryor would take Palmer’s OL in Arizona over this group of ragtag misfits & scrubs, Wiz being the lone exception (of course)

  • SilverNBlackPA

    RaiderRockstar Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:48 am
    Gdog with name calling again today.. ran out of material, it seems

    +++++++++++++++++

    Maybe he needs to switch to decaf, I dunno

    Seriously, though, if I’m not making myself understood, tell me. Name calling just makes me want to move on from the whole thing

  • http://repealitnow.org MistaBrown

    And….you know this how? Sorry to repeat the same question but it’s the “obvious” question you have no answer for.
    ______

    Marks Hair Says:
    September 12th, 2013 at 9:48 am

    simple, Palmer wouldn’t have scored until midway through the 3rd quarter