Comments on: Teachers on the defensive?

By: A real teacher

A real teacher — Sun, 14 Aug 2011 02:18:43 +0000

@CW Your MIL is either being less that truthful with you, or she worked in some fantasy school district on some other planet. I am a teacher and I know lots of teachers who work in lots of different school districts and nobody I know is eligible for a “ridiculously cushy retirement” with 75% of final year’s salary and annual cost of living increases. That’s laughable. No teachers get anything like that, most especially at age 58 (or even 61). I have to teach until I am 70 because if I retire any earlier I won’t be able to live on my less than cushy retirement benefits. Health insurance coverage? HA! In my district, as in many others, teachers pay large portions or all of their premiums. I have “tenure” and nonetheless I have been laid off 3 out of the last 4 years, only getting called back at the last minute after spending the summer wondering wheether or not I would have a job for the coming year. Before I became a teacher, I spent 15 years working in the corporate world, in management level positions, and I made 3 or 4 times the amount of money I make now and yet I never worked harder than I do now. I biggest problem with education in America is the existance of Know Nothings who are full of unsubstantiated opinions and no facts at all.

By: This Is Ridiculous

This Is Ridiculous — Fri, 29 Jul 2011 06:44:28 +0000

Teachers receive crappy pay with the understanding that they’ll get a decent retirement benefit. Why not whine about all the CEOs on Wall Street – the ones who really got our country into this mess? Teachers aren’t the problem.

By: CW

CW — Thu, 28 Jul 2011 07:37:14 +0000

My mother-in-law is a retired schoolteacher and while it’s a hard job that has gotten even harder in recent years with all the budget cuts, it’s also one that comes with a ridiculously cushy retirement benefits. My MIL was eligible to retire at age 58 (although she did not choose to do so until she was 61) at a guaranteed 75% of final year’s salary with annual cost-of-living increases plus family health insurance coverage until both she and FIL are eligible for Medicare. Just try to find a private sector job these days that offers similar retirement benefits.

All current teachers who are more than 5 years away from retirement should be immediately switched to a cash-balance plan, and all new hires should be only eligible for a 401k-type defined contribution plan.

By: Doctor J

Doctor J — Wed, 20 Jul 2011 15:05:08 +0000

@TG Unfortunately bad teachers do last . . . because teachers do not police their own ranks. Tenure is awarded by site administrators, not be teachers, and once it is granted, its way too late. But I think the more significant problem is with once excited teachers, that for whatever reason, lose the enthusiasm and just go through the motions. Actually I agree with you that if the teacher’s unions had more power to police their own, there would be better results.

By: Tom Gilbert

Tom Gilbert — Tue, 19 Jul 2011 16:59:54 +0000

It is really easy to bash a profession when you know so little about it. Bad teachers do not last. Why would good teachers want to keep them around? why would teachers want them to weaken the union?
Unions employ quality workers and that is what you expect when you hire union shops. Only union professionals work on my house. I know I can count on the quality and I know they are well trained.
Teachers are the same. To be a credentialed teacher in California one must maintain at least a 3.0 GPA in the credential program. A candidate must have classroom experience and possess at least a Bachelor’s degree and a 3.0 undergraduate GPA. President Bush would not qualify for the CA teaching credential program.
The teachers have obviously failed some of the respondents to this essay. Their teachers clearly did not develop their critical thinking skills. Their teachers also neglected to instill in these respondents the need for strong research to form well informed opinions and make well informed decisions.
One respondent claims to have an occupation that requires the same amount of education as is required to be a teacher and makes about the same salary. I have no idea what that occupation would be. The top tier for a teacher in the highest paid districts is somewhere near $90,000 and that’s what a teacher makes after 20 years of service and is just about ready to retire. Teachers also spend their own money on classroom supplies. What private sector job expects their employees to make that sacrifice? Furthermore teachers do not take work home once in a while and work a little over time. Most teachers take work home every day and work long after their contractual day has ended. This includes weekends as well.
Apart from all of this. teachers are not asking for higher salaries. Teachers are well aware of the financial mess that this state is in. Teachers are far more concerned with what is happening to their students as a result of this mess.
The worse part about this whole educational debate is that the end result of the attempt to improve education is that we now have more unemployed people with masters and doctorate degrees than we have ever had at any other point in history. Even if the economy improves, this will always be the case and as more and more people become better educated this problem will only get worse.

By: Just J

Just J — Mon, 18 Jul 2011 17:22:32 +0000

@ mdusd Teacher,

I hope you did not take offense to my post. It was meant in the most positive way to teachers. (good teachers) I was not saying that you should get rid of the union I was saying the union should stay out of education policy and what can and can’t be said. I think teachers are on the defensive but they really should not be. You knew when you became a teacher that you would have to deal with the parents as well as the child. We all have different personalities and different ways of processing the information given. Our system is broken all the way up and down the line. It is time to take a stand. If you want to stand with other teachers to make a change then make it happen. If you are one of the great teachers I will rally parents to stand with you.

Teachers have a tough job and if you thought it was going to be easy then I am sorry for you. We all have to work together to change it. Quit whining about how hard it is and think about what is broken and let us all come together to fix it….after all it’s not about you or me it is about our Children.

By: g

Sun, 17 Jul 2011 21:43:53 +0000

Certainly there is some truth in what Mr. Borland has to say. However, I can’t agree with much of it. He says that we are suddenly turning on our public servants when there is nothing “sudden” about it. We are not “turning on” them, we are holding them accountable. He says they are “on the front lines”. Oh, if only that were so. Many are too often in the proverbial “smoke filled back rooms” waging war against the public that put them out there hoping and praying that they would indeed keep the promises they made and take up the “front lines of society”.

Teachers mired themselves down in this quicksand when they decided the almighty dollar was the goal and they would rather make more money than teach for the love of teaching, or the job security that came with that true dedication to a chosen profession.

Then, far too many college students, with no goal or calling to any particular profession, realized that with just a bit more class time on their part they could get a nice white collar job, some pretty decent money, and when the school system was flush with funds, some relatively decent job security. The problem was (and still is) a love and desire to teach did not play a very big roll in their decision to go into teaching.

That old screaming cry to “unionize” has become a mass whimpering whine of “woe is me”, and those who would still love to teach for the sake of teaching are little more than pawns in the political quagmire.

By: Just J

Just J — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:49:40 +0000

I just looked up the person who wrote this article. He is in fact only a Sub. teacher and that is as far as his credential goes. So how would he know what parents are saying to their kids? In what context are they saying it? Is it in response to some garbage that he spewed the day before? (personal opinion or fact)

There has been many occarions that I had to explain to my kids that what the teacher said was opinion and not fact. (you would not even believe some of the stuff that comes home) There have been teachers that state the facts and leave personal opinion out of it unles asked for a healthy debate. I don’t really think all teachers are under attack but some are and those are the ones that are protected by their Unions to keep their job even if they don’t teach.

By: MDUSD Teacher

MDUSD Teacher — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 17:48:20 +0000

@ Just J: I am a teacher in the MDUSD and I can assure you that every time I’ve exercised my right to free speech it has resulted in disciplinary action that required union intervention for me not to be fired. We don’t have tenure after two years in the district; we have due process rights before the district can fire us. Among my situations requiring the union were having the nerve to request a U.S. flag in my classroom (it’s in the Ed. Code but my admins have consistently been opposed to any display of patriotism), daring to discuss with my principal a VP who was involved with a married teacher (resulting in huge favoritism and comments from the students), reporting that same VP for falsifying student records sent to colleges by simply eliminating all failing grades, and the list goes on and on.

The district tried over and over again to force me out for reasons unrelated to classroom performance. If I didn’t have my union, I’d be long gone from the district, and probably from the teaching profession.

I find it ironic that the first two comments following an article responding to teacher bashing are critical of the profession and our right to be unionized. This is exactly why it’s more important than ever for teachers to stick together, both as professionals and as union members, in order to beat back the barrage of armchair educators who find it easier to slam teachers than to try to do the job themselves with shrinking resources, unfunded mandates, corrupt districts, more challenging students, impossible expectations, and politicians of all stripes that treat teachers like pinatas during every election cycle.

By: Just J

Just J — Sun, 17 Jul 2011 16:17:48 +0000

Well said MDUSD MOM. I feel the same. Except I used to love my job and I used to work late and take work home and I unsed to have benefits That is until I was laid off. I have been out of work for so long that I am finding it hard to find a position anywhere. I am not complaining just pointing out.

To say that the parents have a sense of entitlement that is being passed down to the kids is just another finger pointing blame game. I don’t think we can blame all parents. We can’t blame all teachers. Our system is broken. I have come across many good teachers and I have come across many bad ones. I am guessing it is the bad ones that state the entitlement issues because a parent has brought some concerns to the table and they took it personal.

I feel that my child is entitled to a good education from a highly qualified teacher. If they are not getting it I help, if many other students in the class are having the same problem then the problem is not the kids….It is possible that the teaching style of the teacher is either outdated or the teacher just does not care anymore.

As far as more communication between the school and community….Teachers stand up and use your right to free speech. If it is broken and you say nothing then you are part of the problem. Parents if your children are constantly getting into trouble find out why if you don’t you are part of the problem. Unions get out of education. Stay out of my childs life. Let the people who know what they are doing do it. Admins, go back to the basics.

Hope all of that made sense.